--
From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #319
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To:
owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence:
bulk
Team3S Digest Wednesday,
October 27 1999 Volume 01 : Number
319
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:06 -0500
From: Jeff A Williamson <Jeff.A.Williamson@jci.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Strut
Rich,
I can back up what Ken said. He did his
right after I paid $1,300 to a local
tire store for OEM struts,
installation, and alignment ($1,100 for parts !!!).
I was more than a litle
upset with myself when I found out what he paid. Part
of my problem, though,
was that I couldn't find anyone to install struts that
weren't purchased
through them, and I didn't want to attempt the installation
myself. Had I
known then....! As Ken said, shop around. I've since done
business with Tallahassee Mitsubishi and have been very
pleased.
Welcome Rich,
>> Hello all, new to the car and I'm
hearing that one of my struts is
>> leaking, and I'm worried about cost
mainly. I have a 93 R/T TT, and
>> when I quickly inquired to a
friend from a tire store he recalled
>> Cadillac's electronic struts
running round $500? Same deal? Ack!
>> Thanks in
advance,
>The first thing you need to know about this car is where you
can get factory
>parts at discount prices. There are several dealers
whose names keep popping
>up. They are Mitsu dealers, but most parts
are identical on the Stealth. Try
>the one closest to you and ask
for the internet 3SI discount:
>Tallahassee Mitsubishi, FL:
888-825-5648, http://www.worldparts.com/tallmits/
>Norco
Mitsubishi, CA: (888) 689-1788, http://www.norcomits.com/
>Rockland
Mitsubishi, NY: 914-353-2100
>I purchased 4 ECS (electronically
controlled) struts earlier this year for
>about $540. I then
installed them myself and had an alignment done. If you
>are a
do-it-yourselfer, let me know and I'll send you the instructions.
>Otherwise, you should be able to find a local shop to do the install and
>alignment for $120-$200.
>Good luck,
>Ken
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:17 -0500
From: Jeff A Williamson <Jeff.A.Williamson@jci.com>
Subject:
Team3S: 1970's 3000GT (GTO) ?
I have a business associate who arrived
from Japan to work in Michigan a few
weeks ago. His english is not so good,
and my Japanese consists of "hello",
"beer & saki", "goodbye", and
"thank you", so it is possible that we had a
misunderstanding in what I'm
about to tell you. After showing him pictures of
my '92 VR4, he told me that
his first car in Japan was a '70s model Mitsubishi
GTO (1974 I think he
said). He said this model had a 4 cyl carbureted non/turbo
engine and was
actually the predecessor to what we know as the 1st generation
3000GT, or
GTO in Japan. If this has been discussed on the list previously, I
appologize, but has anyone else heard this before? Did I understand
him
correctly?
Just curious.
Jeff Williamson
Belleville,
MI
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:41:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mike Baldwin <mbaldwin@eecs.tufts.edu>
Subject:
Team3S: Wintertime and turbos (and tires - group purchase?)
What is the
negative affect of the cold on turbos? I thought turbos LIKED
the cold
weather. Am I wrong?
I also live in NE and ened to get some idea of what
sort of tires I can
buy for my car. I'm thinking Blizzaks (I don't think my
current Falkens
are even all seasons!) but was wondering what tire size I can
get - do I
need 18"ers? I want a decent looking set of rims and wheels, but
17" will
do me fine if the price is right. If someone can recommend a package
or
wants to do a group purchase, let me know!
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:24:59 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: K&N - best price?
Personally, Ive seen tests where the
Apexi filters the best, followed be K&N,
with the rest falling far
behind, and the green mushroom HKaSS filter filtering
practically nothing in
the fine particulate tests.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Dave
[mailto:monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU]
Sent:
Monday, October 25, 1999 11:38 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S: K&N - best price?
I figured I'd try to redeem myself
by asking a (slightly) more relevant
question.. I want to get a
FIPK/Aircharger/whatever tomorrow, (or at
least order one) and wondering if
anyone has found any smokin' deals..
I found one ad in Sport Compact Car
that listed a special on the Aircharger
for a 2nd gen Eclipse for $79. (I'm
aware of the filter size and L-bracket
issues.) Do any of you know of
any other deals? Is the consensus still
that that K&N works best
or at least as good as others?
thanks!
Dave
95 Black VR4
87
Mica Red GTI G60
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http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:37:41 +1300
From: Kevin Clark <Kevin.Clark@hnz.co.nz>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 1970's 3000GT (GTO) ?
> He told me that his first car in
Japan was a '70s model
> Mitsubishi GTO (1974 I think he said). He said
this model
> had a 4 cyl carbureted non/turbo engine and was
actually
> the predecessor to what we know as the 1st generation
>
3000GT, or GTO in Japan.
My first car was a Mitsi 1969 Colt (the only car
I have
ever owned that was older than I!). However in 1970
they
released a model called the Colt Galant GTO.
See:
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.jp/docs6/history/html/frame_d1.htm
All
this talk of history makes me feel like I am a little
biased...
1st
car 1969 Mitsi Colt
2nd
car 1977 Mitsi Lancer
3rd
car 1989 Mitsi Galant GLX
4th
car 1987 Mitsi Galant VR4
5th
car 1991 Mitsi GTO VR4
Cheers,
Kevin.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:30:42 -0500
From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: Team3S:
GTO/cars/Starion VR4?
> All this talk of history makes me feel like I
am a little
> biased...
> 1st
car 1969 Mitsi Colt
> 2nd
car 1977 Mitsi Lancer
> 3rd
car 1989 Mitsi Galant GLX
> 4th
car 1987 Mitsi Galant VR4
> 5th
car 1991 Mitsi GTO VR4
Hmm, I think I have you
beat Kevin...
1985 Mitsubishi Starion ESI-R
1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse
GS-DOHC
1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS-Turbo
1988 Mitsubishi Mighty
Max
1994 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4
1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
1995
Mitsubishi 3000GT Spyder VR4
;-)
Speaking of Starions, has anyone
ever seen/heard-of/tried to put a VR4 motor in a Starion to make a RWD VR4 motor
car? Any idea of whether or not the Starion tranny would bolt to the 3.0l
twin-turbo, assuming I can actually get everything to fit under the hood (or
even without the hood)? I am contemplating making a drag racer out of a
Starion and whatever VR4 remains I can find. The DSM guys are building
them with DSM motors and getting in the 10's, I'm thinking a fully built VR4
motor could put one in the 9's easy, hopefully without the wimpy Getrag trannys
getting in the way...
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
'88 Starion
VR4????
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:30:15 +0200
From: Mike Chapleski <mike.chapleski@attglobal.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: EGT Probe Mounting
Trevor, I mounted mine about three inches
before the turbo in the front manifold. The
exhaust from all three
cylinders has already merged into one pipe by this point. I did
not
weld the fitting on. It was a pipe thread so I just tapped the
exhaust manifold. I did
remove the exhaust manifold to do this, but you
can do it on the car. If I understand your
sig. correctly, you will
already have the turbos off.
Under load my EGT's vary
between 850-950 deg Celsius. I know this is high, but I am not
really
pushing the engine. I think the gauge and/or probe may be off, but there
is no way
of testing it. I have an APEXi.
Mike C.
0018
'95
Stealth RT TT
Trevor James wrote:
> Which cylinder is the
easiest one to weld an EGT fitting onto. Instructions for my
> Autometer
gauge say 4" from the head. I'm sure when I pull the front heat shield off
it
> will be obvious but I thought maybe you guys have some
insight....
>
> Also I should keep max EGT's under 1580F,
right?
>
> Trevor
> 96 R/T TT-Doing 15G's, 550's, VPC, Fuel
Pump, Downpipe, Pre-Cat gutting, Greddy BOV, EGT
> & A/F Ratio Gauges
starting tomorrow.....
> Already has a HKS EVC IV, Borla, Plugs@.034",
Accel Wires, & K&N FIPK.
> 92 GMC Typhoon
>
> For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
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------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:05:44 -0500
From: "Benson \"elmagoo\" Russell" <benson@2015.com>
Subject: Team3S:
GTO/cars/Starion VR4?
Sheese, I take it the Starion is a rather small
car? Sounds like what yer
trying to do is very similar to the Monster
Miata that people make.
Basically taking a rustang 5.0 engine and sticking it
into a Miata. Talk
about a zippy little car :). Wonder what would
happen if you could stick a
full VR-4 TT setup into a Miata?
;)p
Here's another question for ya'll. Which would be the better
year to get a
VR-4 from, a '95 or a '96? Why? Because these are
the years with the body
styling I like the most :).
Latufh fuh
U,
Benson
benson@2015.com
"-Do
you ever have second thoughts?
- -When do I ever have first
thoughts?"
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:14:02 -0500
From: "Benson \"elmagoo\" Russell" <benson@2015.com>
Subject: Team3S: ooops,
sorry, didn't clarify :(
I just realized I should've been more specific
in my question about which is
better, a '95 or a '96. Speaking from a
technical stand point where
upgradability is concerned? There's a good
possibility that I'll be able to
trade up to a VR-4 in about 5 months, and
being the power greedy bastard
that I am, I want to upgrade it as much as is
possible ;). So if there are
limitations between the years (like say
one year has a better transmission
than a different year for example?) I want
to take that into consideration.
Also if someone thinks that an entirely
different year would be best I'm
definately interested in knowing
:).
Thanks, and sorry for the double post.
Latufh fuh
U,
Benson
benson@2015.com
"-Do
you ever have second thoughts?
- -When do I ever have first
thoughts?"
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:57:29 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: adding turbos to an NA
> As I posted a couple days ago,
there's a lot more involved than just
bolting them on. You need either
an additional injector controller setup or
a turbo ECU, as well as exhaust
manifolds, Y-pipe, BOV, (injectors?),
possibly a MAF from a turbo car,
downpipe, turbo oilpan, oil feed/drain
lines, coolant feed/drain lines,
etc. More work than it is worth, most
likely. You also end up
with a high-horsepower FWD car which will torque
steer like a monster and
chew through tires. Not that chewing through tires
isn't
fun......
>
Matt is mostly right but a turbo is not the biggest problem
as you can use
an aircharger that dosn't need any coolant or oil lines. The
size of the
housing is bigger but not a problem. The Turbo should be chosen
for enough
airflow but only about 8 psi of boost. Such a device is available
for the
NSX and would work on the 3000GT too.
But how the heck would
you make the connection from the heads to the turbo ?
This is very difficult
and you must design a long piping that will get hot.
This is bad and will not
be very successfully in the end.
BTW, you can do this but it'll cost you
around $8000 and then the tranny
will become the problem as well as the
clutch or automatic.
Simply said ... not worth, money time and hassle
!
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
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------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:21:40 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Turbo questions for all (efficiency map)
Not a problem as this is
a standard efficiency map for turbo chargers ;-)
The left is the pressure
ratio. For example : 15psi of boost, pr is
(14.7+15)/14.7 = 2.03
Now you
can calculate the engines need of air at any rpm with 15 psi of
boost and you
may find a result of 40 lbs/min. Now draw the pr line to the
right and the
flow to the top. The lines will cross each other at 72%
efficiency on the T4
islands. You can also add the rpm lines to the drawing
with calculating the
air flow with the raising boost. The pics shown on the
Cyclone page are good
examples. That way you'll finally choose the right
turbo for your
application.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
> Is that pressure ratio
on the left inlet vs. outlet pressure? Man that
chart's
>
confusing!
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:14:04 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Knock, knock ....
> 1) Tuning with stock O2 sensor
readings is no good because they are
> not very accurate unless you are at
partial throttle. This is why our
cars
> ignore O2 sensor
readings at full throttle.
The ECUs are in open loop at WOT and therefore
disregard the O2 sensors.
This is not because the sensors are expensive :-)
At WOT a secific table is
taken for fuel and ignition without
adjustments.
> 2) An A/F meter gives you a good approximation of
where you are,
> but it is not a very accurate thing to tune with.
It is basically making
a
> rough guess of what the actual ratio
is.
Well, compared to the knock and timing on the datalog the voltage on
the O2
sensor at WOT tells me where I am. At 0.88 V there is knock that
lowers
woith 0.9V and mostly dissapears at 0.94 Volts. I htink this is
pretty
accurate. Of course, a ten LED meter is not able to do
this.
> 3) EGT readings are too coarse to tune with. They
are a useful
> indicator of the limits within which you should be
running.
Yes, exactly.
> 4) According to this friend of
mine, the best indicator with which you
> should tune is a wide-band O2
sensor.
On the dyno, we always have an A/F sneeker in the
exhaust.
> So anyway, I thought you (and other people on the list)
might want to
> look into this. Or if somebody on the list has used
one they can pass
> along their experiences.
The A/F ratio meter,
the sneeker and the logger are showing the correct
values within a small
tolerance. The A/F meter is a good indicator for
running less rich with
voltage under 0.9V and the 0.9V and 1.V lamp lighting
up, this means 0.95V
and is a little too rich. I thin kthis is not a bad
indicator, although it
will never ever reach the capabilities of a
datalogger. The EGT meter is a
good control for retarded timing and lean
situations too. Both are more
warning instruments than tuning tools for sure
but not everyone can use a
high cost A/F meter as well as not everyone has a
datalogger. That's why we
have to use what we can get.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:37:42 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: EGT Probe Mounting
> Which cylinder is the easiest one to weld
an EGT fitting onto.
Instructions for my
> Autometer gauge say 4" from
the head. I'm sure when I pull the front heat
shield off it
> will be
obvious but I thought maybe you guys have some insight....
The front one
just before the turbo flange is a good position. Do not just
tap into one
tube as this will reduce the airflow of this specific one. As
the turbo
causes backpressure the EGT reading will be pretty good on any
place in the
manifold.
> Also I should keep max EGT's under 1580F,
right?
This is always a debate but I think readings above 1580 are piston
melting
temperatures. But the temp in the exhaust may be higher due to the
pressure
before the turbo and tI'd say that the EGT should not exceed 1650.
But I do
not have any experience with reading on mine yet, so others may give
you
better input.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:28:31 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Water Injection
> Im familiar with the process, but what
kit(s) are people using, and
specifically
> at what costs, install
hassles, and what have the repsective
'butt-o-meter'
> guages felt
about this mod?
I'm using the ERL System 2 with 3D water mapping. No
installation hassle as
only a place for the pump and an ordinary water tank
should be found. The
later can be any size, material and design. I used the
front mount water
tank the EU cars have. Cost was around $900 with the
additional
water-controller and the MAP sensor that allows me to create a 3D
map for
the water injected. Water did not increased horespower but on the
streets
I'm now able to run 1.18 kg/cm2 with the same low amount of knock
like at
1.0 kg/cm2. On the dyno, the water got heated up and one jet broke
due to my
stupid installation. I've choosen two jets as this is possible with
this
system. One is used for additional intercooling and the other
controls
detonation. The first was only screwed in into the front metal IC
pipe and
the threat was not withstanding the higher boost. Therfore I do not
have
real dyno figures. On the street the WI lowerd the intake temperature
from
144°F to 112°F and I think this speaks for
itselfs.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
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------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:07:54 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: 1970's 3000GT (GTO) ?
- -----Original Message-----From: Jeff A
Williamson
<Jeff.A.Williamson@jci.com>
>I
have a business associate who arrived from Japan to work in
Michigan a
few
>weeks ago. His english is not so good, and my Japanese consists
of
"hello",
>"beer & saki", "goodbye", and "thank you", so it is
possible that
we had a
>misunderstanding in what I'm about to tell you.
After showing him
pictures of
>my '92 VR4, he told me that his first
car in Japan was a '70s model
Mitsubishi
>GTO (1974 I think he said).
He said this model had a 4 cyl
carbureted non/turbo
>engine and was
actually the predecessor to what we know as the 1st
generation
>3000GT,
or GTO in Japan. If this has been discussed on the list
previously,
I
>appologize, but has anyone else heard this before? Did
I
understand him
>correctly?
'Yes', and 'probably', but he's
wrong. That's like saying the 1950
Ford was the predecessor to the '55
Thunderbird, or that Chevy's
PowerGlide transmissions were the predecessors
to Corvette's
PosiTraction. The boxy offerings from Mitsubishi in the
70's,
(Lancer, etc) have nothing in common with the VR-4s other than
fine
performance, priced too high and marketed poorly. They
weren't
upgraded Starions or Magnas or Diamantes or Veradas or
Lancers...,
or any of the other suggestions made on lists or in print.
The
Stealth/3000GT were designed from the ground up, according to
both
Chrysler and Mitsubishi. In the early 80's, Chrysler couldn't
build
a car that didn't break, and Mitsubishi couldn't design a car
that
didn't look like a box, so their partnership in 1988 was a
perfect
union for this project that became the Stealth and the
3000GT...
Mitsubishi's myriad innovations were well known, so a number
of
their superior technologies were upgraded to make this
mechanical
marvel of a vehicle-- their engine and turbos, their work
with
sound attenuation, steering control, brakes were the best
available.
But the body came from Chrysler's Hyland Park design think
tank
in California in the early and mid 80's, and was a concept car
originally
known as the Intrepid, which looked like a Stealth/3000GT
from the front and
the NSX from the back, and was a mid-engine
4-banger until Mitsu took over
the actual building of the car. The
scoops on the sides were originally
functional, used to cool the
mid-engine. Mitsu adopted the nose design
almost exactly, but at
the last minute, Dodge went for the trademark
"gunsight" grille it
uses in all its products, including all Stealths.
Mitsu showed the
HSX, (which became the GTO) in 1989; Chrysler showed the
Intrepid 2
or 3 years earlier-- same car, only the HSX had a spoiler
and
mirrors like we know them. These cars were "Designed by
Chrysler,
Built by Mitsubishi", like it or not...
The terms GT and GTO
stand for "Grand Touring" Car, from the
Italian, "Gran TourismO". This
was a phrase made popular in the
30's and 40's by Ferrari and other Italian
manufacturers, and
championed by British Leyland, Jaguar, etc, to mean
'larger and more
comfortable' than traditionally tiny two-seater sports
cars. A
sporty performance car that one could travel in comfortably, as
it
were... Pontiac copyrighted the phrase in the late 50's, and
used
it on their popular line of cars in the 60's, so Mitsubishi
was
prevented from using GTO in the States, hence the 3000GT name,
rather
than the GTO name used in Japan.
I have the photo of the HSX for anyone
who's interested, but have to
get permission to share the Intrepid photo,
since it's a personal
photo that's not mine. And keep any arguments,
flames, etc.,
private
please...
Best,
Forrest
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:19:20 -0500
From: "Doug Garrott" <dgarrott@texas.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: GTO/cars/Starion VR4?
I'm also partial to the styling of the '94
& '95. One difference I've
encountered is that the '94 has glass
headlight modules that tend to show
condensation in the sealed units.
My '94 base 3K had this and the local
dealer only wanted $480 apiece to
replace them - I lived with it. I hear
that the '95 on have cured that
problem.
Doug G
'93 VR4
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
Benson "elmagoo" Russell <benson@2015.com>
To: 3000GT Mailing
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent:
Tuesday, October 26, 1999 3:05 PM
Subject: Team3S: GTO/cars/Starion
VR4?
> Sheese, I take it the Starion is a rather small car?
Sounds like what yer
> trying to do is very similar to the Monster Miata
that people make.
> Basically taking a rustang 5.0 engine and sticking it
into a Miata. Talk
> about a zippy little car :). Wonder what
would happen if you could stick
a
> full VR-4 TT setup into a Miata?
;)p
>
> Here's another question for ya'll. Which would be the
better year to get
a
> VR-4 from, a '95 or a '96? Why?
Because these are the years with the
body
> styling I like the most
:).
>
>
> Latufh fuh U,
> Benson
> benson@2015.com
>
> "-Do you ever
have second thoughts?
> -When do I ever have first
thoughts?"
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:34:30 -0500
From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: GTO/cars/Starion VR4?
> Sheese, I take it the Starion is a
rather small car? Sounds
> like what yer
> trying to do is
very similar to the Monster Miata that people make.
> Basically taking a
rustang 5.0 engine and sticking it into a
> Miata. Talk
>
about a zippy little car :). Wonder what would happen if you
>
could stick a full VR-4 TT setup into a Miata? ;)p
I think if you put the
VR4 motor in a Miata it would tear it to pieces from all the midrange
torque.
The Starion is the same thing as a Dodge Conquest, similar to the
Daytona and Shadow in most respects. A somewhat angled-looking RWD turbo
car with decent performance characteristics, other than a rather anemic motor
that doesn't respond particularly well to upgrades. The motor was
originally a truck motor with a turbo bolted on. Swapping out the motor
would probably leave a pretty sweet little drag racing car.
-
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:02:05 -0700
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: 9B, 13G, 15G relative performances
xwing
wrote:
> Once VPC/550 injectors in, 13G's went 12.000 and
119.381 best mph, on 4/8/95;
> about 500 hp at the wheels; overall, gained
about 110 hp with 13G over 9B, but
> given other changes 13G likely ~100
hp better than 9B.
>
> Errin Humphrey wrote:
>
> >
doesn't). I am not expecting to sacrifice any driveability when I upgrade
to
> > 15Gs. In my opinion, upgrading to 13G is pointless,
especially
> > in light of Roger Gerl's dyno charts which show that
horsepower differences
> > compared to 9B really aren't that
great.
Jack,
Thanks for the very informative post. It easily
shoots down my
hasty statements, and it also gives a good overview of the
real-world
power differences between these turbo setups. I hope you
will
soon be able to add 17G numbers to the list. Also, do you
think
you could comment on the differences in normal driveability
when
going from 9B to 13G to 15G? That's what I was trying to
comment
on in the first place.
I come back to Roger Gerl's dyno runs
which show his Euro-spec
(13G) VR4 having a slightly better torque curve but
~lower~
overall horsepower compared to two US-spec (9B) TT's dyno'd
on the
same day. This obviously conflicts with your tremendous
increases in
trap speeds with the 13G upgrades on your car.
What could explain
this? I've always offered the explanation which
I mentioned when Roger
concluded from these dyno runs that exhaust
mods do not increase horsepower
(on stock turbos): I think it might
have something to do with
inadequate airflow (especially to the inter-
coolers) on the dyno.
We've all been here before, so I'll just leave it
at that.
:)
>15G are still unbeaten, both on motor and with NOS; are capable
of
>125 mph quartermile / 575+ hp AT THE WHEELS no NOS in my
car,
>with only piggyback computer mods/no porting/enginework beyond
the
>boltons. Pretty amazing, really.
Amazing is an
understatement.
- --Errin Humphrey
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:42:23 -0700
From: "nketo" <nketo@accglobal.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: GTO/cars/Starion VR4?
Benson,
The 3000 engine would
destroy the 5.0 for sure! :)
In regards to the '95 or '96, I would select the
one that had the least
number of
miles period.
Best of
luck!
Noble
- -----Original Message-----
From: Benson "elmagoo"
Russell <benson@2015.com>
To:
3000GT Mailing <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date:
Tuesday, October 26, 1999 1:48 PM
Subject: Team3S: GTO/cars/Starion
VR4?
>Sheese, I take it the Starion is a rather small car?
Sounds like what yer
>trying to do is very similar to the Monster Miata
that people make.
>Basically taking a rustang 5.0 engine and sticking it
into a Miata. Talk
>about a zippy little car :). Wonder what
would happen if you could stick a
>full VR-4 TT setup into a Miata?
;)p
>
>Here's another question for ya'll. Which would be the
better year to get a
>VR-4 from, a '95 or a '96? Why? Because
these are the years with the body
>styling I like the most
:).
>
>
>Latufh fuh U,
>Benson
>benson@2015.com
>
>"-Do you ever
have second thoughts?
>-When do I ever have first
thoughts?"
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:31:32 -0600
From: "Ian Calegory" <iancalegory@home.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Whine in new '94 VR-4
Hi, I just purchased a '95 3000GT VR-4 and
have a couple of questions about
it. I think overall the car is in
pretty good shape, especially the body
and paint, but there are a couple of
concerns I have about it.
First of all is that when I am in 2nd or 3rd
gear at high torque (around
4,000 - 5,000 rpm) I hear something that makes a
loud whining noise that
lasts for less than a second. I've gathered
that these Getrag transmissions
go out frequently, so is it possible that
that's what it is, and that it
needs to be rebuilt?
Also, I hear some
clacking noises in the engine that I think might be one
more more noisy
lifters. Is it likely noisy lifters? What does it take to
fix
that? I didn't notice the sound before I bought the car, but the
oil
was pretty dirty, and I know it's possible to temporarily quiet lifters
by
putting some gunk in the oil. I had a compression test done on the
engine
before I bought it, and the guy told me the compression was 120
psi.
However, I found out later that he only checked some of the
cylinders--if
there is a noisy lifter problem, would this have shown up on a
full
compression test as a low psi reading on one of the
cylinders?
The car had a little less than 65,000 miles on it, and I did
enough research
(called the warranty dept. at a Mitsubishi dealer, found out
the two dealers
that worked on the car, and called them up to check the
service records--the
service guy told me I couldn't go wrong with the car) on
it to be fairly
certain that the 60,000 mile service (new timing belt, water
pump,
tensioner, etc.) hasn't been done on the car. When I get this
done (at a
Mitsubishi dealer, most likely) will they have the engine apart
enough to
where it wouldn't take much more tearing down to get to where they
can fix
the lifter problem, so maybe they wouldn't charge me as
much?
Sorry if these questions sound very "newbie", but hey this is my
first
3000GT. I do think it is an awesome car!
Ian
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:54:03 -0500
From: "Benson \"elmagoo\" Russell" <benson@2015.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Spotting ODB?
One question that came up while asking about the different
years of VR-4s,
was that late model '95's and all '96's are ODBII (making
them harder to
upgrade?). I'm not sure of the specifics to what ODB
stands for (if anyone
wouldn't mind privately emailing me like a quick
run-down of the ODB specs
that'd be appreciated, or a link to a site with
more info on it. Always
looking to know more :). I do know that
it means there's more exhaust
restrictions on the car due to emissions laws
(just don't know what :). The
question I have is that how to tell if
your car is ODBI or ODBII? I
currently own a base '95 model, I'd like
to see what it is just out of
curiosity, and how to spot it in the
future.
thanks again for the help, definately much appreciated
:).
Latufh fuh U,
Benson
benson@2015.com
"-Do you ever have
second thoughts?
- -When do I ever have first thoughts?"
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:56:26 -0600
From: "Ian Calegory" <iancalegory@home.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Whine in new '94 VR-4
To clarify, my car is a '95, even though I
said '94 in the subject line.
Ian
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: Ian Calegory <iancalegory@home.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent:
Tuesday, October 26, 1999 8:31 PM
Subject: Team3S: Whine in new '94
VR-4
> Hi, I just purchased a '95 3000GT VR-4 and have a couple of
questions
about
> it. I think overall the car is in pretty good
shape, especially the body
> and paint, but there are a couple of concerns
I have about it.
>
> First of all is that when I am in 2nd or 3rd
gear at high torque (around
> 4,000 - 5,000 rpm) I hear something that
makes a loud whining noise that
> lasts for less than a second. I've
gathered that these Getrag
transmissions
> go out frequently, so is it
possible that that's what it is, and that it
> needs to be
rebuilt?
>
> Also, I hear some clacking noises in the engine that I
think might be one
> more more noisy lifters. Is it likely noisy
lifters? What does it take
to
> fix that? I didn't notice
the sound before I bought the car, but the oil
> was pretty dirty, and I
know it's possible to temporarily quiet lifters by
> putting some gunk in
the oil. I had a compression test done on the engine
> before I
bought it, and the guy told me the compression was 120 psi.
> However, I
found out later that he only checked some of the cylinders--if
> there is
a noisy lifter problem, would this have shown up on a full
> compression
test as a low psi reading on one of the cylinders?
>
> The car had a
little less than 65,000 miles on it, and I did enough
research
>
(called the warranty dept. at a Mitsubishi dealer, found out the
two
dealers
> that worked on the car, and called them up to check the
service
records--the
> service guy told me I couldn't go wrong with the
car) on it to be fairly
> certain that the 60,000 mile service (new timing
belt, water pump,
> tensioner, etc.) hasn't been done on the car.
When I get this done (at a
> Mitsubishi dealer, most likely) will they
have the engine apart enough to
> where it wouldn't take much more tearing
down to get to where they can fix
> the lifter problem, so maybe they
wouldn't charge me as much?
>
> Sorry if these questions sound very
"newbie", but hey this is my first
> 3000GT. I do think it is an
awesome car!
>
> Ian
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:36:20 -0700
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Spotting ODB?
Benson \"elmagoo\" Russell wrote:
>
One question that came up while asking about the different years of
VR-4s,
> was that late model '95's and all '96's are ODBII (making them
harder to
> upgrade?). I'm not sure of the specifics to what ODB
stands for (if anyone
I think you're having a bit of acronym confusion,
Benson. :)
O.D.B. is the nickname for a rapper known as Ol' Dirty
Bastard.
O.B.D. I think stands for On-Board Diagnostics, but I'm not 100%
sure.
> The question I have is that how to tell if your car is ODBI or
ODBII?
If your car is '95 then it is most likely OBDII, but again I'm not
100%
sure about that.
- --Errin "baby I got ya money"
Humphrey
Seattle, wA
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:46:56 -0400
From: "Wallis, Gavin" <WallisG@MWAA.com>
Subject: Team3S: NOS
VR4
I hope Mr. JT will have the answer on this one.
I've heard the
question bumped around the list once or twice, but I have
never really hard
anything to definitive (if possible). What are the
feelings on a fairly
conservative (50hp) shot of NOS on our VR-4s?
Should certain other mods
be in place first?
Even though it may not blow the engine up immediately, are
there some long
term considerations?
Is 50hp too
conservative?
Thanks,
Gavin
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:00 -0500
From: Jeff A Williamson <Jeff.A.Williamson@jci.com>
Subject:
Team3S: You were right!!! (was My Baby's Misfiring)
A week ago, I posted
a message asking what would cause my engine to
intermittantly misfire after
degreasing and hosing off the engine. I received
several responses
suggesting the following:
1) Loose electrical connection somewhere
2)
Loose plug wires
3) Water in the coil-pack wells
4) Water in the spark
plug wells
5) Water in some of the sensors
6) Fouled plug
After
hours of research, I finally found the problem. And the winner is ......
# 4
- moisture in the center rear plug well and at least an ounce of water in
the left rear plug well. What a pain in the ####!!! Why can't the rear plugs
be
as easy to get to as the front ones ?!?!
A little compressed air
to dry things out and problem solved. Thanks for your
help.
Jeff
Williamson
Belleville, MI
'92 VR4
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our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
End
of Team3S Digest V1 #319
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