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(Team3S Digest)
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Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #316
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Team3S Digest
Saturday, October 23 1999 Volume 01 :
Number
316
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 26 Dec 1998 08:25:59 -0800
From: "nketo" <nketo@accglobal.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Knock, knock ....
Roger,
When I see Nissan Skylines
running 800+ horses, it makes me wonder *why*
we're getting so much
detonation out of 1.00 bar on our engines.
Perhaps an upgraded front-mount
intercooler is our solution. I've heard of
a Skyline pulling 6000
rpm
at 1.00 bar and only getting an intake charge 20-30 degrees above
ambient.
With our stock intercoolers becoming too heak soaked, detonation
is bound to
happen.
Add that to the reduction in in-temps, and pressure
drop throughout the
core(s), we have the
recipe for a major restriction in
HP.
In theory, maybe this is what we need to reduce intake temps
ultimately; use
a front mount,
water injection, and race-gas.
25 psi
anyone?
What do you guys think? Can theory apply to
practice?
- -Noble
(nketo@accglobal.net)
-
-----Original Message-----
From: R.G. <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: Team3S List
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Cc:
Darcy Gunnlaugson <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
Date: Friday,
October 22, 1999 12:51 PM
Subject: Team3S: Knock, knock
....
>Knock .... caused by detonation, to high tolerances and more
is the major
>enemy of our engine. We know that there are some things like
higher octane,
>water injection, ignition upgrade and ... fuel ....can
help to get rid of
>the knock. We know that the later is normally used for
the power and not to
>cool the chamber but looking at the stock rich
condition this made me
>thinking.
>
>If you haven't already
seen my MAF installation page go and check out the
>picture of the first
datalog. As I tuned the fuel controller I did this
like
>everyone with
the help of an A/F meter. This, of course, is simply a
>voltmeter that
shows the voltage with a range from 0-1V. Devided by 10 LEDs
>this means
each one represents 10mV. I therefore tuned the thing in to go
up
>to
0.9V at WOT. I did this and got the car running well and it felt
good.
>But the datalog then showed the truth : knock allover the
bandwidth. In
1st,
>2nd and a bit more in 3rd due to the heavy load,
but always there. The most
>interesting thing was that the ECU did NOT
retard the timing even with a
lot
>knock ! Why ?? Is this because the
ECU was maybe still learning ? Or could
>the fact of a static barometric
and temp signal be the cause ? Or was the
>ECU still ignoring this high
knock amount ? The later logs showed then the
>ignition got retarded the
longer I ran the car. The car already runned at
>least 10 miles before I
made the tests and this tells me that it really
take
>soem time until
the ECU even learned to retard the ignition.
>
>Now the last finding
reminded me that people are resetting the ECU before a
>run on the track
and will see better performance then. Sure, we know why :
>The timing is
advanced and, even with knock, it is not retarded ! Result :
>more power
... and more danger. Therefore, if you do this ONLY DO THIS with
>racing
gas. The ECU is not able to take care of it !
>
>Now the more
critical thing : O2 sensor readings. Look again at the pic and
>you can
see that the injector curve is much lower after the MAF because I
>haven't
had it tuned in fully. But the O2 sensors showed rich 0.92 Volts
>WITH
knock. Argh, I hate this word ..... Now one would say bah, this
little
>knock, but hey this can and will hurt your engine more and more.
Now how
>would I have the ARC or any fuel controller tuned in without the
datalogger
>??? Yeah, right, with the A/F meter. But the meter is not the
problem,
>although the higher the resolution the better the ability to
tune in the
>fuel controlling device. But the question is still there :
How much knock
do
>I really have, none, little or too much
?
>
>I'm happy to be able to have the datalogger and the longer I
look at the
>graphs the more do I say to myself ... $300 for the logger
would have saved
>me $3200 or more for replacing the pistons. I highly
recommend using a good
>diagnostic tool when you are a serious car
enthusiast (yep, me) with a thin
>wallet (me too) and a great racer (ahem,
not me).
>
>Today I'd say an A/F meter, a good voltmeter with peak
hold feature and
temp
>reading are necessary when you start to tweak
the fuel system. Even more I
>recommend an EGT meter and a device like
logger to be able to get the most
>out of your car without too much danger
of cracking something. Please
>understand that I learnt a lot due to my
ignorance and I paid for this as
>many of us did in the past (including a
lot friends that are not knowing
the
>Internet).
>
>Now the
ultimate tool would be .... a knock meter ! I do have the MSD
knock
>sensor that comes with a good filter and it's own piezo
coupler
(microphone)
>but I haven't found any place where it would fit.
I will try to find a
space
>close to the stock sensor when I change the
injectors bit I do not plan to
>tap into the stock sensor. But this
wouldn't be a bad thing, because tests
>by John Basol showed that a knock
LED my work although something went wrong
>and fried the knock sensor (who
knows...) But creating such a device that
>attaches to the stock sensor or
to an output of the ECU (not the solenoid
>LED) with about three LEDs for
the knock intensity will be worth a lot ! It
>would have saved mine and
other engine as well as some more I see in the
>future.
>
>Ok
friends, some thoughts from me regarding fuel and that it is not easy
to
>stay away from the dark zone. Getting injectors, an ARC, pump big
turbos,
>everything results in more hp ... but we need HEALTHY horses and
not little
>ponies that are byte by the dogs.
>
>Happy
boosting
>Roger,
>93'3000GT TT
>
>For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:35:39 -0800
From: "nketo" <nketo@accglobal.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Knock, knock ....
- -----Original Message-----
To: Team3S List
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Cc:
Darcy Gunnlaugson <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Knock, knock ....
>Roger, &
everybody,
>
>When I see Nissan Skylines running 800+ horses, it
makes me wonder *why*
>we're getting so much detonation out of 1.00 bar on
our engines.
>Perhaps an upgraded front-mount intercooler is our
solution. I've heard of
>a Skyline pulling 6000 rpm
>at 1.00
bar and only getting an intake charge 20-30 degrees above
ambient.
>
>With our stock intercoolers becoming too heak soaked,
detonation is bound
to
>happen.
>Add that to the reduction in
in-temps, and pressure drop throughout the
>core(s), we have
the
>recipe for a major restriction in HP.
>
>In theory, maybe
this is what we need to reduce intake temps ultimately;
use
>a front
mount,
>water injection, and race-gas.
>25 psi
anyone?
>
>What do you guys think? Can theory apply to
practice?
>
>-Noble
>(nketo@accglobal.net)
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original
Message-----
>From: R.G. <robby@freesurf.ch>
>To: Team3S List
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
>Cc:
Darcy Gunnlaugson <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
>Date:
Friday, October 22, 1999 12:51 PM
>Subject: Team3S: Knock, knock
....
>
>
>>Knock .... caused by detonation, to high
tolerances and more is the major
>>enemy of our engine. We know that
there are some things like higher
octane,
>>water injection,
ignition upgrade and ... fuel ....can help to get rid of
>>the knock.
We know that the later is normally used for the power and
not
to
>>cool the chamber but looking at the stock rich condition
this made me
>>thinking.
>>
>>If you haven't already
seen my MAF installation page go and check out the
>>picture of the
first datalog. As I tuned the fuel controller I did
this
>like
>>everyone with the help of an A/F meter. This, of
course, is simply a
>>voltmeter that shows the voltage with a range
from 0-1V. Devided by 10
LEDs
>>this means each one represents 10mV.
I therefore tuned the thing in to go
>up
>>to 0.9V at WOT. I did
this and got the car running well and it felt good.
>>But the datalog
then showed the truth : knock allover the bandwidth.
In
>1st,
>>2nd and a bit more in 3rd due to the heavy load, but
always there. The
most
>>interesting thing was that the ECU did NOT
retard the timing even with a
>lot
>>knock ! Why ?? Is this
because the ECU was maybe still learning ? Or could
>>the fact of a
static barometric and temp signal be the cause ? Or was the
>>ECU still
ignoring this high knock amount ? The later logs showed then
the
>>ignition got retarded the longer I ran the car. The car already
runned at
>>least 10 miles before I made the tests and this tells me
that it really
>take
>>soem time until the ECU even learned to
retard the ignition.
>>
>>Now the last finding reminded me
that people are resetting the ECU before
a
>>run on the track and
will see better performance then. Sure, we know why :
>>The timing is
advanced and, even with knock, it is not retarded ! Result :
>>more
power ... and more danger. Therefore, if you do this ONLY DO
THIS
with
>>racing gas. The ECU is not able to take care of it
!
>>
>>Now the more critical thing : O2 sensor readings. Look
again at the pic
and
>>you can see that the injector curve is much
lower after the MAF because I
>>haven't had it tuned in fully. But the
O2 sensors showed rich 0.92 Volts
>>WITH knock. Argh, I hate this word
..... Now one would say bah, this
little
>>knock, but hey this can
and will hurt your engine more and more. Now how
>>would I have the ARC
or any fuel controller tuned in without the
datalogger
>>??? Yeah,
right, with the A/F meter. But the meter is not the problem,
>>although
the higher the resolution the better the ability to tune in the
>>fuel
controlling device. But the question is still there : How much
knock
>do
>>I really have, none, little or too much
?
>>
>>I'm happy to be able to have the datalogger and the
longer I look at the
>>graphs the more do I say to myself ... $300 for
the logger would have
saved
>>me $3200 or more for replacing the
pistons. I highly recommend using a
good
>>diagnostic tool when you
are a serious car enthusiast (yep, me) with a
thin
>>wallet (me too)
and a great racer (ahem, not me).
>>
>>Today I'd say an A/F
meter, a good voltmeter with peak hold feature
and
>temp
>>reading are necessary when you start to tweak the
fuel system. Even more I
>>recommend an EGT meter and a device like
logger to be able to get the most
>>out of your car without too much
danger of cracking something. Please
>>understand that I learnt a lot
due to my ignorance and I paid for this as
>>many of us did in the past
(including a lot friends that are not
knowing
>the
>>Internet).
>>
>>Now the ultimate
tool would be .... a knock meter ! I do have the MSD
knock
>>sensor
that comes with a good filter and it's own piezo
coupler
>(microphone)
>>but I haven't found any place where it
would fit. I will try to find a
>space
>>close to the stock
sensor when I change the injectors bit I do not plan to
>>tap into the
stock sensor. But this wouldn't be a bad thing, because tests
>>by John
Basol showed that a knock LED my work although something
went
wrong
>>and fried the knock sensor (who knows...) But creating
such a device that
>>attaches to the stock sensor or to an output of
the ECU (not the solenoid
>>LED) with about three LEDs for the knock
intensity will be worth a lot !
It
>>would have saved mine and other
engine as well as some more I see in
the
>>future.
>>
>>Ok friends, some thoughts from me
regarding fuel and that it is not easy
to
>>stay away from the dark
zone. Getting injectors, an ARC, pump big turbos,
>>everything results
in more hp ... but we need HEALTHY horses and not
little
>>ponies
that are byte by the dogs.
>>
>>Happy
boosting
>>Roger,
>>93'3000GT TT
>>
>>For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>>
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 23 Oct 1999 03:41:08 EDT
From: TurboDrvn@aol.com
Subject: Team3S:
Update: NO BOOST!!! situation.
Well everyone, we did the
compression test today!! These were the following
measurements:
Cylinder #1 : 165psi
Cylinder #2 :
165psi
Cylinder #3 : 150psi
Cylinder #4 : 160psi
Cylinder
#5 : 160psi
Cylinder #6 : 165psi
This was NOT a thorough
leak down compression test. It was just a simple
"insert compression
tool" into cylinder & crank motor test!!! All cylinders
were very
healthy, considering I have 82,000 miles!!!!! # 3 Cylinder was
the weakest at 150psi. So I definitely do NOT have an internal motor
problem
(pistons, rings, valves, etc.); my tests have confirmed that my IHI
turbos
indeed are definitely the problem of my NO BOOST
situation!!!! Now I'll
have to pay yet again to take apart the
turbos to inspect the exhaust/hot
sides and have to buy new turbos and
re-install them all over again!!
I figured, may as well put new spark
plugs in since everything was apart.
Replaced old NGK plugs (only
10,000 miles old) gapped at .032 (all appeared
healthy; but I thought
might as well change to newer plugs anyway) with New
NGK plugs gapped at
.034 ; then I noticed quite a bit of oil in my bov area,
y-pipe,
throttle body and rear turbo area (due to a bad turbo???). Put
everything back together - but had major "gun shot" sounds (backfire) when I
decelerated. The backfire sounds only occurred when I let off the
throttle
(NOT at WOT) and was slowing down. The frequency of these
backfires are
considerably more than when my older plugs were gapped at
.032 ; my question
is why?? Why did only .002 make such a
difference?? ( I have all cats
gutted and will eventually be running
high boost again sometime in the near
future) Am I getting too much
oil or fuel into my system causing the
backfire????? any ideas??
Remember I still have NO Boost!!! And my VR4
runs perfectly, like a
NON-turbo car. It idles fine and runs fine; just no
Turbo boost.
I only get 0psi on my aftermarket boost gauge (around -5 to -7
on factory
boost gauge) and definitely have NO feeling of turbo power! I
wonder
if the backfiring (when decelerating) will disappear once my boost is
back??????
I will keep everyone posted.
Ahmed "AL-Crazy" - '92
VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:34:19 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Knock, knock ....
> Roger and others - Do you feel you can
safely run a car with the
datalogger alone. For
> example if I
run high enough octane fuel to eliminate knock at a given
boost level, do
I
> guarantee I'm not damaging the engine? Or, is knock only part of
the
picture, you
> should also watch EGT temps and O2 voltage to ensure
your not running
lean? Can running
> lean damage the engine if
its not severe enough to cause knock?
Yes, running lean is critical but
the logger will see this with the O2
sensors, the knock and the timing. Our
ECU does take care of the mixture and
retards the timing when knock occurs
(after relearning). For such situation
we must know that the logger is only
able to read what the ECU can give you
and the more values you record the
less is the frequency of the readings.
Therefore, a peak may not be found but
the ECU acts upon it.
If you want to do the tuning job most seriously
you'll need :
- - temp readings : intake, turbo discharge, intercooler out,
before TB,
intake plenum, EGT
- - pressure readings : discharge, after
intercooler, before turbo (turbine
backpressure), after turbo (exhaust
backpressure)
Unfortunately, we cannot read the combustion chamber
temperatures although
ther is a plug that is able to do this. Price is in the
thousands !
Knock is indeed the result of bad conditions and therefore
it's not good to
fight the symptoms but the cause of this problem. An example
: very short
lean situations can be caused by too much turbine backpressure.
This can
push the already burnt gases back into the combustion chamber and
the result
will be lean burn in the next cycle. But our ECU can check this as
it is
able to recognize a bad burn in each of our chambers and therefore
retards
the timing if necessary. But this retard often causes the EGT to rise
into
bnad dimensions for the material. Therefore, the datalogger may not see
any
knock caused by detonation as well as our "cheap" O2 sensors just see
rich
conditions but the EGT is way too high. A result of a lot of such
situations
can then be damage that finally will show knock then. IMHO, and
EGT is
necessary (I have two who are sitting around) for sure and with
the
combination with the datalogger it's the best way to tune in the
car.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:46:42 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Knock, knock ....
> When I see Nissan Skylines running 800+
horses, it makes me wonder *why*
> we're getting so much detonation out of
1.00 bar on our engines.
> Perhaps an upgraded front-mount intercooler is
our solution. I've heard
of
> a Skyline pulling 6000 rpm
>
at 1.00 bar and only getting an intake charge 20-30 degrees above
ambient.
Fisrt, the engines are a total different design and to pull out
800 horses
they are using very good pistons, rods and speacial treted
walls.
The intercoolers are only one problem but you must see the full
picture :
- - little turbos
- - small intercoolers
- - a lot
piping
- - weak ignition
> Add that to the reduction in in-temps,
and pressure drop throughout the
> core(s), we have the recipe for a major
restriction in HP.
Above 10 psi the 9b run out of their specs and the
discharge temp reaches
very high values. You can then take a huge FMIC that
cools the air down but
IMHO, at first yo uhave to do somethign to the turbo.
15G for example have a
total different efficiency area and the discharge temp
at 15psi is much
lower than ob the tiny 9b or even my 13g. The intake temp
became negligible
here as the temp reached 290°F (!) The result was 172°F at
the intake, about
90°F above ambient on that day ! With water injection, this
temperature has
then be lowered down to 102°F max after the other run and
this was only
about 10°F above ambient what was a good level. This gave me
more power,
more advanced timing and less knock. The same can be achieved
with a huge
intercooler.
> In theory, maybe this is what we need to
reduce intake temps ultimately;
use
> a front mount, water injection,
and race-gas. 25 psi anyone?
> What do you guys think? Can theory
apply to practice?
No theory, reality ! Not 25 psi, because here I'd say
to take forged pistons
and very good seals, not stock garbage (grin) With
race gas you hinder
detonation as you do with the colder intake. This is the
formula but I'd
start at the turbos if you want to go the prof. way
:)
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 23 Oct 1999 11:22:45 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Update: NO BOOST!!! situation.
> Well everyone, we
did the compression test today!!
Great, no problem on the head and piston
side. Damn good readings !!
> my tests have confirmed that my IHI
turbos indeed are definitely the
problem
Aha, IHI - Turbos ???? Don't
they have a custom flange to the exhaust
manifolds ?? Definitely, they have
to come apart to check.
> then I noticed quite a bit of oil in
my bov area, y-pipe, throttle body
and
Well, there is always
some oil around but you should not see a lake !
> considerably more
than when my older plugs were gapped at .032 ; my
question
> is
why?? Why did only .002 make such a difference??
What, if the
ignition has a problem or the O2 sensors do not give the right
readings ??
Again, I wish to see a datalog. Don't you have a friend or so
who's able to
lend you the logger ?
> Am I getting too much oil or fuel into my
system causing the backfire?
Backfire could be fuel that is ignited in
the exhaust. When you take your
turbos off you'll find some signs, like white
or very light brown colors
around the turbine inlet and the turbine itselfs
that could be pointing to
such a cause.
> Turbo boost. I only
get 0psi on my aftermarket boost gauge (around -5
to -7
> on factory
boost gauge) and definitely have NO feeling of turbo power!
What, if the
turbine wheels are running free and the shaft between it and
the compressor
wheel is not connected ? If one of both are not sitting
properly on the shaft
or something broke this coudl be happen and you have a
totally normal runnign
engine. Maybe both turbos runned into the same
problem due to the backfiring
that does bad things to the turbine or at
least the wastegates or flanges. If
this conditions stay over a longer
period the gates may got damaged and start
to leak. It is really possible
that this happend on both within a week. Why
not taking the front O2 sensor
housing off and inspecting the wastegates and
turbine wheel conditions from
there ? Not a big deal but worth the
time.
Good luck,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 23 Oct 1999 10:30:22 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Rebuilding calipers
Can the front brake calipers on a 94 VR4 be
rebuilt?
I seem to have totally banged, scratched, and gouged the
pistons, and I
ruined several O-rings on my calipers from a dozen or more pad
changes this
season. Is this something that can be done on the workbench or
is it best
left to a dealer? Is there a rebuilding kit?
Even if I go
to the Big Red, I still need to fix my old calipers.
And while we're on
the subject, any chance the front calipers would fit on
the rear?...I can see
a system with Big Red up front and the big front
calipers on the rear. Might
actually stop the furshlugginer car.
Please advise.
Rich/old
poop/94 VR4/somebody stop me!
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 23 Oct 1999 11:02:41 -0500
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re:
VR4 AWD Torque Split ACTUAL
The 3000GT/Stealth TT in the USA and in the
whole world I feel confident,
have always had a 45% front / 55% rear torque
bias. There was no change in
1994/with the 6 speed. The 91-93
most definitely also had this SAME 45/55% split. For
reference,
see
most any article on the car but for specifics I refer to the most complete
article on
the car/tech specs when it first came out: Road and Track,
September 1990--has the
3000VR4 on the COVER with title "PUMPED
UP!"
This states on p.41 that center planetary diff incoprorates a VCU;
with tires getting same
traction, split is 45/55 front/rear. With
slippage at either end, the end with more traction
gets more
torque.
Matt, where did you see any reports to the contrary? That
is bad info, hate to let that get
into people's minds because it will be a
myth from then on...
Jack Tertadian
Matt Jannusch wrote:
>
> > AWD 55% at the rear wheels and 45% at the front wheels.
> >
I heard '91-93 models actually had
> > 40/60 split and it was not
until '94-99
> > that cars came with 45/55 split...
>
>
These are the correct numbers. It was changed in '94 when the 6-speed
Getrag was introduced.
> -Matt '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 23 Oct 1999 11:06:19 -0500
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re:
xfer case oil check
I believe the 1991 models had only 2 access
holes: the drain hole, and one fill hole.
The level was supposed
to be set a bit BELOW the fill hole, a difficult thing to do.
The 1992+
had 3 holes: drain, fill, and CHECK on the driverside faceplate (a 14mm
bolt
head);
fill till runs out the check hole.
1994+ 6
speed (cast iron) xfer cases again have 2 holes: drain, and
fill;
fill to the lower edge of hole.
Jack
Tertadian
Curt Gendron wrote:
> The picture in the newer
manuals are incorrect for the transfer case. The
> picture they show
is the 91-93 transfer case. They have three plugs. The
> 94+
iron transfer cases only have two plugs, drain and fill/check.
>
Curt
>
> >Then I moved on to the xfer case. My manual shows
a drain bolt
> >(bottom), fill bolt (front) and inspection bolt (side),
but I could not
> >find the inspection bolt. Was it eliminated
with the 2nd gen xfer
> >cases? I have the '94 shop manual but
perhaps it wasn't updated.
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is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 24 Oct 1999 13:20:57 -0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: VR4-AWS?
Its really not a double overdrive. The gears are
spaced tighter, so the
sixth is like the old fifth. I use 6th all the
time at highway speeds of
60-80 cause otherwise the rpms are up around 3k and
your wasting gas!!
Sam 95 VR4
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
To:
Team 3S Tech List <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date:
Friday, October 22, 1999 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S:
VR4-AWS?
>robby@freesurf.ch
wrote:
>>
>> > as being an upgrade :-) For a car with this
much torque I feel the six
>> > speed is unnecessary. The six is
supposed to be a little stronger
>> > but from the complaints of the
owners I'm not to sure
>>
>> Oh, I highly disagree with the
six speed is unnecessary ! I drove both
and
>> must say the six
speeder has a much better power band in 2nd and 3rd than
>> mine. It
just feels lighter and better selectable on the road,
especially
up
>> the hills and through the serpentines. Of course,
just my opinion :-)
>
>True, but remember that the roads and speed
limits are a bit different
>over here! A double overdrive
transmission is very useful in Europe
>where it is possible (ie- legal) to
cruise at well over 100 mph all day
>long, but the more I drive over here,
the more I wonder when I ever used
>sixth gear back in the
states!
>
>Okay, back to tech topics... -Jim
>--
>Jim
Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
>matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de
(64 Kbps ISDN)
>http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
>
>***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
>http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
>Jet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
>Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
>K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R
(1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
>A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off
Valve
>Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
>Metal
Matrix brake pads, custom braided brake lines
>Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4
245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
>G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @
113.9 mph
>1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft
torque
>
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 23 Oct 1999 20:39:36 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Rebuilding calipers
> Can the front brake calipers on a 94 VR4
be rebuilt?
Yes.
> I seem to have totally banged, scratched,
and gouged the pistons, and I
> ruined several O-rings on my calipers from
a dozen or more pad changes
this
> season. Is this something that can
be done on the workbench or is it best
> left to a dealer? Is there a
rebuilding kit?
I don't know if there is a kit but I got a set with all
rings and boots. The
pistons on mien are onyl scratched at the top because I
pushed them back
without the necessary tool.
> And while we're on
the subject, any chance the front calipers would fit on
> the rear?...I
can see a system with Big Red up front and the big front
> calipers on the
rear. Might actually stop the furshlugginer car.
Well, you need to get
rid of the handbrake and this is not easy ! The
diameter of the rotor is too
small for the larger caliper. I think your 94
should already have the two
piston rear caliper and with the Bremsas and PBR
brakes the braking got a
much better feeling for me.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 23 Oct 1999 20:43:04 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Re: VR4 AWD Torque Split ACTUAL
> The 3000GT/Stealth TT in the
USA and in the whole world I feel confident,
> have always had a 45% front
/ 55% rear torque bias. There was no change
in
> 1994/with the 6
speed.
I also checked the information I have seen like prospectus and on
every
report and every paper where the bias was mentioned a 45/55 was written
for
any years.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 23 Oct 1999 14:15:37 -0500
From: Rah <rah@isd.net>
Subject: Team3S:
Strut
Hello all, new to the car and I'm hearing that one of my struts
is
leaking, and I'm worried about cost mainly. I have a 93 R/T TT,
and
when I quickly inquired to a friend from a tire store he
recalled
Cadillac's electronic struts running round $500? Same
deal? Ack!
Thanks in advance,
- --Rich
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 23 Oct 1999 12:54:57 -0700
From: Luis Interiano <Interian@oeaa.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Head Light glass
Hello all,
I don't know how many of you on the group
have this problem, but I have it
so I have to assume some of you do as well,
it is what looks like stress
fractures in the head light glass. I don't
have the problem on both
headlights just the passenger side one. Is
this just a rare thing and
should just replace or is this an issue that
reoccurs no mater what you do.
Thank you for any help in
advance.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 23 Oct 1999 23:25:00 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Strut
> Hello all, new to the car and I'm hearing that one of
my struts is
> leaking, and I'm worried about cost mainly. I have a
93 R/T TT, and
> when I quickly inquired to a friend from a tire store he
recalled
> Cadillac's electronic struts running round $500? Same
deal?
Unfortunately, the stock struts are damn expensive but Mitsu should
be able
to repair them if they are not damaged too much. The price will be in
the
$380 area but this could depend on where to get the parts from. Shooping
in
calling around is maybe worth the time.
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 23 Oct 1999 23:45:22 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Team3S:
Less ign advance or knock ??
Gang,
I'm currently testing the
G-Force ECU and the programs for it. The first
version showed a timing that
was less advanced than my european one and even
less timing than another US
ECU datalog. The result was about zero knock
with the less timing and no
noticeable loss in power. The car still feels
fast and pulls hard but of
course, less timing means less power ... or am I
wrong ?? I think this is
correct as a retard in the timing always causes
loss in power.
As
usual, I start thinking a lot about this stuff and asked myself :
- - if
the timing is not that advanced as normal, the boost could be increased
more
and will also more than compensate the loss of the lower timing. This
of
course will result in earlier fuel problems.
- - if the timing is advanced
more, we can crank boost back to get the same
amount of power and therefore
the fuel system would be healthier.
Unfortunately, knock occurs earlier then
too.
Of course, if an ignition enhancement cures some detonation problems
the
second part will be no problem and we can stock with it. But if knock
stays
I just can't say what is better. More boost also means more stress to
the
internals while a more advanced timing causes earlier
knock.
Either way has pros and cons but what way would you go ? I do have
two more
programs with a more enhanced timing but it seems that my EU ECU had
some
more differneces as I notice the fans are stay on all the time
after
warm-up. Is this common for a Californian car ?
Opinions, ideas
?
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 26 Dec 1998 01:41:54 -0800
From: "nketo" <nketo@accglobal.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Turbo questions for all
To Roger and everybody,
Intake
temps after the turbos of 290 degrees with 13G's?
That's seems way too
much! I can only imagine over 300 with the 9G's.
Does anyone have
experience with other turbos?
What about the intake temps after the turbos or
the intake plenium with
15G's or those hybrid units
everyone is talking
about?
I'm thinking Brian's BIG ass monster turbos (@GTPro) would work
great;
they'd only be working probably
at about 40-50% efficiency
though.
Any input you have would be great.
Thanks in advance to
all :)
- -Noble
- -----Original Message-----
From: R.G. <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: Team3S List
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Cc:
Darcy Gunnlaugson <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
Date: Saturday,
October 23, 1999 1:25 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Knock, knock
....
Above 10 psi the 9b run out of their specs and the discharge
temp reaches
very high values. You can then take a huge FMIC that cools the
air down but
IMHO, at first yo uhave to do somethign to the turbo. 15G for
example have a
total different efficiency area and the discharge temp at
15psi is much
lower than ob the tiny 9b or even my 13g. The intake temp
became negligible
here as the temp reached 290°F (!) The result was 172°F at
the intake, about
90°F above ambient on that day ! With water injection, this
temperature has
then be lowered down to 102°F max after the other run and
this was only
about 10°F above ambient what was a good level. This gave me
more power,
more advanced timing and less knock. The same can be achieved
with a huge
intercooler.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 23 Oct 1999 15:43:34 -0700
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Less ignition advance or knock ??
Roger...
I'm on my
third set of G-Force chips, still haven't found the right program.
Running
too rich, still fouling plugs, stripping oil from the cylinders. I
did get
(from Robert) a printout of the maps for the most recent set. It's
difficult
for me to understand, as I don't have a matching printout of the
stock maps,
but it might be useful for you. I can fax a copy, or...???
FWIW...my
experience with G-Force chips has been that, as I increase boost,
I lose
power. I've attributed this to the rich condition, but it could be
the
timing. For this reason, I'm only getting into the high 12s, even though
I
have a set of mods that should get me into the 11s. I may yet have to
break
down and buy a A/F controller, preferably one that replaces the MAF.
I'm VERY
glad you're doing all the scientific research for me (and others),
it's SOOOO
much better than the "hit and miss" approach.
KEEP UP THE GREAT
WORK!!!
BTW...under 70 degree (F) ambient temps, one of my fans is on.
The other
only turns on under long boost, and/or higher ambient
temps.
Looking forward...Chris
1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/HKS
Super Flo intake, TEC 15G turbos, bored
and polished throttle body, RC 560cc
injectors, HKS fuel pump, GReddy PRofec
A boost controller, G-force ECU
upgrade, HKS SBOV, custom intercoolers,
Predator dry cell battery, Magnecore
8.5mm wires, NGK double platinum plugs
gapped at .030", ATR downpipe and test
pipe, GReddy catback exhaust, GReddy
turbo timer, Eibach 1" drop progressive
springs, Michelin SX MXX3 Pilots)
- -----Original Message-----
From:
R.G. [mailto:robby@freesurf.ch]
Sent:
Saturday, October 23, 1999 2:45 PM
To: Team3S List
Cc: Darcy
Gunnlaugson
Subject: Team3S: Less ign advance or knock
??
Gang,
I'm currently testing the G-Force ECU and the
programs for it. The first
version showed a timing that was less advanced
than my european one and even
less timing than another US ECU datalog. The
result was about zero knock
with the less timing and no noticeable loss in
power. The car still feels
fast and pulls hard but of course, less timing
means less power ... or am I
wrong ?? I think this is correct as a retard in
the timing always causes
loss in power.
As usual, I start thinking a
lot about this stuff and asked myself :
- - if the timing is not that
advanced as normal, the boost could be increased
more and will also more than
compensate the loss of the lower timing. This
of course will result in
earlier fuel problems.
- - if the timing is advanced more, we can crank boost
back to get the same
amount of power and therefore the fuel system would be
healthier.
Unfortunately, knock occurs earlier then too.
Of course, if
an ignition enhancement cures some detonation problems the
second part will
be no problem and we can stock with it. But if knock stays
I just can't say
what is better. More boost also means more stress to the
internals while a
more advanced timing causes earlier knock.
Either way has pros and cons
but what way would you go ? I do have two more
programs with a more enhanced
timing but it seems that my EU ECU had some
more differneces as I notice the
fans are stay on all the time after
warm-up. Is this common for a Californian
car ?
Opinions, ideas ?
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:44:59 -0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Fuel injectors, 4ws, and my new Stillen DP
I know these are two
unrelated, but it saves space. I was wondering if
anyone might know if
the Supras (MK4) injectors will work on our cars? I
know they are 550cc
and if so, here is another car we can borrow parts from.
Also, one member
stated that 95 and 96 TT do not have AWS. This is not what
it says in
my manual or in the specs of the car. Is this guy mistaken
or
what?
Oh by the way, just received the Stillen DP. It
eliminates the front Cat
and the main cat and has provisions for O2 sensors
which I can not find on
my 95s stock D.P.. Its a beautiful unit,
but I do not like messing with
the main cat. Does anyone know if the
check engine will come on w/o the
cats present?
\\\
Thanks.
Sam 95 VR4 K&N, HKS SSBOV, Stillen D.P.,
Greddy TT, APex
AVCr
Perf. Friction Pads
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 23 Oct 1999 16:19:46 -0700
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Stillen DP
Sam...
Actually, attempting to save space
by combining subjects makes it messy for
those who want to respond to, or
follow, the thread of only one topic.
At any rate, all three of my cats
miraculously disappeared (for off-road use
only) and I've never seen a check
engine light. It sounds to me like you got
a post 96 (and even some late 95s)
downpipe, which has pre and post turbo O2
sensors (total of four, OBDCII).
The majority of 95s and all earlier years
have only two O2 sensors, one per
turbo. Get a couple threaded plugs and
you're in business.
Looking
forward...Chris
- -----Original Message-----
From: Sam Shelat [mailto:sshelat@erols.com]
Sent: Sunday,
October 24, 1999 11:45 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S: Fuel injectors, 4ws, and my new Stillen DP
<snip>
Oh by the way, just received the Stillen DP. It eliminates the front
Cat
and the main cat and has provisions for O2 sensors which I can not find
on
my 95s stock D.P.. Its a beautiful unit, but I do not like
messing with
the main cat. Does anyone know if the check engine will
come on w/o the
cats present? \\\
Thanks.
Sam 95
VR4 K&N, HKS SSBOV, Stillen D.P., Greddy TT, APex
AVCr
Perf. Friction Pads
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 23 Oct 1999 19:29:51 -0700
From: Raymond Yap <raymond.yap@stanford.edu>
Subject:
Team3S: greddy profec
I've just got myself a 2nd hand greddy profec A,
and am keen on
installing it myself. Can anybody tell me where I can pick up
some
instructions on doing so ? Alternatively, can someone recommend
a
peformance shop around the bay area where I can get it fixed up.
cheers,
Raymond.
'91 VR-4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 24 Oct 1999 00:59:35 -0700
From: Joe Gonsowski <twinturbo@mediaone.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Fuel Pressure
Anybody running the HKS in tank fuel pump? I
would like to know what
pressure it delivers to the fuel rail at idle and at
positive boost.
Or, as they check it in the Service manual, at idle with and
without the
FPR solenoid connected to the FPR.
Related question:
Do most after-market fuel pumps deliver a constant
flow rate to the fuel rail
no matter what the rpm? At idle, the FPR
allows most of the fuel to
return to the fuel tank thus keeping rail
pressure down. Then the FPR,
when it senses boost, closes the return
line which causes the rail pressure
to raise. Correct these statements
if they're
flawed.
Thanks,
Joe Gonsowski
'92 R/T TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
End
of Team3S Digest V1 #316
****************************
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