--
From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #315
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
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Team3S Digest
Friday, October 22 1999 Volume
01 : Number
315
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:46:34 -0500
From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: VR4-AWS?
> Hmm, wouldn't a 40/60 split be more desirable for
> autocrossing? Would it be possible to convert to
> the
40/60 split on a 2nd gen?
Sure, downgrade to the 5-speed
tranny...
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:36:26 -0700
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Adventures in Braking IV
Rich Merritt wrote:
>
>What about the big brake kit from Brembo ???
> >They have a kit for
2,000 bucks that has massive rotors,
> >( not sure of measurements )
they are big!!
> >And huge 6 piston calipers !!
> >They put
them on the Ferrari's and lamborghini's,
> >maybe they will work for
you !!!
> >
> I think that kit is more like $3,000.
> But
if anyone has a solid price and a dealer to talk to, please post
it.
Indra at ApexR sells the kit for ~$2000. I'm not sure exactly
which
kit it is (probably 13 inch like the stockers), but usually
Brembo
offers quite a few different sizes. I would be kinda surprised
if the
$2k kit used 6 piston calipers rather than 4.
As somebody said
on the Team3S list, you're probably better off
spending another $600-$1000
more and getting the Bremsa kit or
better yet, the Mov'it Porsche GT2
kit. These would be practically
the same brakes put on GT2 cars.
The Puma N1 GTO (all-out
race car in Japan) uses AP 6-pot calipers in
front. I haven't found
out which rotors it uses, but they don't look
larger than stock and
they aren't cross-drilled or slotted.
- --Errin
"new tips" Humphrey
Seattle, wA
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 21 Oct 1999 23:34:54 -0400
From: Jason Barnhart <phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Smoke, related to cat removal?
I found out my car does a neat
trick now, smoke screens. If I engine brake I
evidently buildup some
material (for lack of knowing just what it is), then when I hit
the gas
again, usually to rev-match my 2-1 shift, I leave a nice cloud of greyish
white
smoke. It's not blue and I don't appear to be burning oil, it's
not black so I don't
think it's fuel, but I also don't appear to be losing
coolant. The only thing I can
figure is that since I've gutted my
precats and am now running an ATR downpipe with no
main cat (I had previously
had my main cat gutted) is that the material that is normally
removed by
catalytic converters is of course not being removed and results in smoke.
My
car also smokes if it idles for several minutes after being warmed
up. I've been
curious about this condition for some time, and now that
I can recreate it at will,
perhaps I can give the details necessary for
finding out exactly what's going on.
Any ideas?
Jason
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:24:59 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
VR4-AWS?
> > Hmm, wouldn't a 40/60 split be more desirable for
> > autocrossing? Would it be possible to convert to
>
> the 40/60 split on a 2nd gen?
>
> Sure, downgrade to the
5-speed tranny...
================================================
As
the owner of a 93 TT I would consider the change to a five speed
as being an
upgrade :-) For a car with this much torque I feel the six
speed is
unnecessary. The six is supposed to be a little stronger
but from the
complaints of the owners I'm not to sure
Jim
Berry
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:30:46 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Smoke, related to cat removal?
. The only thing I can
>
figure is that since I've gutted my precats and am now running an ATR downpipe
with no
> main cat (I had previously had my main cat gutted) is that the
material that is normally
> removed by catalytic converters is of course
not being removed and results in smoke. My
> car also smokes if it
idles for several minutes after being warmed up.
======================================================
Not likely to
be related to the main cat --- the cats are to treat unburned
hydrocarbons
which are not normally visible. The most likely cause is
valve stem seals or
maybe oil rings. Very small amounts of oil are involved
so you are not likely
to notice over short periods.
Jim Berry
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:32:28 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: Fw:
Re:Adventures in braking IV
This is a multi-part message in MIME
format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_00A2_01BF1C14.28005FA0
Content-Type:
text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
7bit
> The following link to Baer brakes shows the Alcon 6
piston caliper
> and 13.5 " two piece rotor kits selling for $6100 for the
Viper and about
> $6500 for Camaro.
>
> Jim
Berry
> ==================================================
>
> http://www.baer.com/
>
- ------=_NextPart_000_00A2_01BF1C14.28005FA0
Content-Type:
application/octet-stream;
name="Baer Claw Brake
Systems.url"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition:
attachment;
filename="Baer Claw Brake
Systems.url"
[DEFAULT]
BASEURL=http://www.baer.com/
[InternetShortcut]
URL=http://www.baer.com/
Modified=C0A884B3451CBF01C0
-
------=_NextPart_000_00A2_01BF1C14.28005FA0--
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 01:41:33 -0400
From: Jason Barnhart <phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Smoke, related to cat removal?
Ok, but why white or grayish smoke
with no hint of blue or smell of oil? Even if it was small
amounts of
oil, unless there was something else in the smoke, the smoke would be bluish,
no?
Jim Berry wrote:
> . The only thing I can
>
> figure is that since I've gutted my precats and am now running an ATR
downpipe with no
> > main cat (I had previously had my main cat gutted)
is that the material that is normally
> > removed by catalytic
converters is of course not being removed and results in smoke. My
>
> car also smokes if it idles for several minutes after being warmed
up.
>
======================================================
>
> Not
likely to be related to the main cat --- the cats are to treat unburned
>
hydrocarbons which are not normally visible. The most likely cause is
>
valve stem seals or maybe oil rings. Very small amounts of oil are
involved
> so you are not likely to notice over short
periods.
>
> Jim Berry
>
> For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:05:28 +0200
From: robby@freesurf.ch
Subject: Re: Team3S:
VR4-AWS?
> as being an upgrade :-) For a car with this much torque I
feel the six
> speed is unnecessary. The six is supposed to be a little
stronger
> but from the complaints of the owners I'm not to
sure
Oh, I highly disagree with the six speed is unnecessary ! I drove
both and
must say the six speeder has a much better power band in 2nd and 3rd
than
mine. It just feels lighter and better selectable on the road,
especially up
the hills and through the serpentines. Of course, just my
opinion :-)
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:46:53 EDT
From: TurboDrvn@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Using
Brake Cleaner to clean off Apex'i Bov
This may be a dumb question; is it
safe to use a Brake Cleaner to clean out
the internals and external of my
Apex'i Sequential Blow off Valve? I had
some major oil build up inside
the BOV due to possible blown turbos or
internal motor problems.
I'm concerned that if I use a Brake Cleaner that it may
cause some harm
to my BOV mehanism; which may cause the BOV to eventually
stick slightly open
or slightly closed. I just want to clean out the
oil residue inside the BOV.
Any other recommendations?
Thanks,
Ahmed "AL-Crazy"
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:37:52 -0500
From: "Landis, Michael" <MLandis@casham.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Smoke, related to cat removal?
Yeah, that's what I thought.
But I was experiencing light oil consumption
(about 1 1/2 qt between 3K mile
oil changes), and the car would belch a huge
puff of smoke after sitting at
idle for a few minutes - like sitting at a
long light or in the fast-food
drive-thru line. Mine was also white, not
blue or grey like you'd
expect, and I detected no typical "burning oil"
smell. The car has 115K miles
on it and I just overhauled it (water pump
seized, timing belt shredded -
long heavy sigh, lots of money, don't EVEN
get me started) and now the
problem has gone away. How many miles on your
car? Any
possibility of oil ring wear?
To check for possible valve stem seal wear,
the next time you've got an oil
change coming up (two or three days advance),
you might add a quart of ATF
to your oil. The trans fluid causes the
rubber seals to swell a little bit,
eliminating the oil blow-by and the
smoke. If your smoke problem goes away
(mine did) then it's a safe bet
it's the valve stem seals. You don't want
to run the ATF all the time
or push the car much while it's in the
crankcase, but it ought to be OK for a
couple of days before your oil
change. Note that my car is a
non-turbo. Not sure what impact the ATF
might have for a short period
on turbo bearings if your car is a TT.
Comments,
guys?
Michael
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason
Barnhart [SMTP:phnxgld@erols.com]
> Sent:
Friday, October 22, 1999 12:42 AM
> Cc: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Smoke, related to cat removal?
>
> Ok, but why
white or grayish smoke with no hint of blue or smell of oil?
> Even if it
was small
> amounts of oil, unless there was something else in the smoke,
the smoke
> would be bluish, no?
>
> Jim Berry wrote:
>
> > . The only thing I can
> > > figure is that
since I've gutted my precats and am now running an ATR
> downpipe with
no
> > > main cat (I had previously had my main cat gutted) is that
the
> material that is normally
> > > removed by catalytic
converters is of course not being removed and
> results in smoke.
My
> > > car also smokes if it idles for several minutes after being
warmed up.
> >
======================================================
> >
> >
Not likely to be related to the main cat --- the cats are to treat
>
unburned
> > hydrocarbons which are not normally visible. The most
likely cause is
> > valve stem seals or maybe oil rings. Very small
amounts of oil are
> involved
> > so you are not likely to notice
over short periods.
> >
> > Jim
Berry
> >
> > For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:56:35 -0400
From: Rick Diogo <rick@ceo-consulting.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Smoke, related to cat removal?
It sounds like a blown turbo
to me....
Rick Diogo
94 R/T
TT
============================================================
At
11:34 PM 10/21/99 -0400, Jason Barnhart wrote:
> I found out
my car does a neat trick now, smoke screens. If I engine
> brake
I
>evidently buildup some material (for lack of knowing just what it is),
>then when I hit
>the gas again, usually to rev-match my 2-1 shift,
I leave a nice cloud of
>greyish white
>smoke. It's not blue
and I don't appear to be burning oil, it's not black
>so I
don't
>think it's fuel, but I also don't appear to be losing
coolant. The only
>thing I can
>figure is that since I've
gutted my precats and am now running an ATR
>downpipe with no
>main
cat (I had previously had my main cat gutted) is that the material
>that
is normally
>removed by catalytic converters is of course not being
removed and results
>in smoke. My
>car also smokes if it
idles for several minutes after being warmed
>up. I've
been
>curious about this condition for some time, and now that I can
recreate it
>at will,
>perhaps I can give the details necessary for
finding out exactly what's
>going on.
>
>Any
ideas?
>Jason
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
>http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:15:18 +0100
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: VR4-AWS?
robby@freesurf.ch wrote:
>
>
> as being an upgrade :-) For a car with this much torque I feel the
six
> > speed is unnecessary. The six is supposed to be a little
stronger
> > but from the complaints of the owners I'm not to
sure
>
> Oh, I highly disagree with the six speed is unnecessary !
I drove both and
> must say the six speeder has a much better power band
in 2nd and 3rd than
> mine. It just feels lighter and better selectable on
the road, especially up
> the hills and through the serpentines. Of
course, just my opinion :-)
True, but remember that the roads and speed
limits are a bit different
over here! A double overdrive transmission
is very useful in Europe
where it is possible (ie- legal) to cruise at well
over 100 mph all day
long, but the more I drive over here, the more I wonder
when I ever used
sixth gear back in the states!
Okay, back to tech
topics... -Jim
- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de
(64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top
Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb
99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:23:35 +0100
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject:
Team3S: new brake pads
As I mentioned in a post last night, yesterday I
installed new Abex
front brake pads. Today on the way home I came up on
my exit pretty
fast and could not slow down fast enough to take the
turn! I ended up
sailing on by with the pedal to the floor!
Pretty scarry, and I'm lucky
it wasn't an emergency situation.
Now I
know that most pads require a break-in period, but does this
sound
normal? This was my first hard braking on these pads. I did
a few more
on the way home and there was a strong brake smell and some
smoke. When
I got home I checked the rotors and fluid resevoir - both
looked good.
Note that the rotors were not turned prior to installing
these pads.
These rotors went though a set of Stillen Metal Matrix pads
followed by
a few thousand miles on Roger's stock Mitsu pads before the
Abexes went
on.
Any suggestions? Is this normal? How can I
expedite the break-in in
the interest of safety? Thanx!!
- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de
(64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top
Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb
99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:04:26 -0500
From: "Benson \"elmagoo\" Russell" <benson@2015.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
VR4-AWS?
I have the non-turbo and would LOVE to have a six speed. I
live in Tulsa
and usually make a run down to Dallas about once every month or
month and a
half. Plus I make trips back home to Chicago (12 hour drive
done in 9.5,
I'm looking to beat that on my next trip :). Plus the
highway speed limits
in Oklahoma are 75, and in missouri they're 70 (which
means I do about 85+
depending upon how ticket conscious I'm being :), and
that sixth gear would
be nice for the fuel economy to run the engine at lower
RPMs while cruising
at those speeds. Doing 80 - 90 is still around
3000-4000 RPMs which is
ample for another shift-point.
Which brings up
a question. Are there any shops or places that can make
custom
transmissions? I would love a higher performance transmission with
a
sixth gear on my car but I dunno if any shops will make transmissions
for
you on custom order or what the entire procedure involved would
be.
Latufh fuh U,
Benson
benson@2015.com
"-Do you ever have
second thoughts?
- -When do I ever have first thoughts?"
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:50:47 -0700
From: Dan Jett <djett@corp.ultratech.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: VR4-AWS? -Reply
** High Priority **
> A double
overdrive transmission is very useful in Europe
>where it is possible (ie-
legal) to cruise at well over 100 >mph all
day
>long, but the more I
drive over here, the more I wonder >when I ever
used
>sixth gear
back in the states!
Actually, not to nitpick, but the 6-speed is a triple
overdrive!
Fourth is actually an overdrive gear...
As far as if it is
necessary, (I've had both 5 and 6 speeds), the
sixth gear, albeit too tall
for any performance level driving, does
wonders for gas mileage. I
consistantly show 3-5 mpg more than I did
on the 5 speed. May not seem like
much, but per annum it makes a
dent!
The gear ratios are also
different between the two, and the "seat of
the pants" acceleration is
better...Could be the extra 20 ponies, but
my 92 was modified as
well...
Just my $.02
Dan Jett
94 Stealth Turbo
K/N
FIPK
Greddy exhaust
Centerforce DF Clutch
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 10:04:16 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: new brake pads
Hi Jim,
> As I mentioned in a post
last night, yesterday I installed new Abex
> front brake pads. Today
on the way home I came up on my exit pretty
> fast and could not slow down
fast enough to take the turn! I ended up
> sailing on by with the
pedal to the floor! Pretty scarry, and I'm lucky
> it wasn't an
emergency situation.
>
> Now I know that most pads require a
break-in period, but does this sound
> normal? This was my first
hard braking on these pads. I did a few more
> on the way home and
there was a strong brake smell and some smoke. When
> I got home I
checked the rotors and fluid resevoir - both looked good.
>
> Note
that the rotors were not turned prior to installing these pads.
> These
rotors went though a set of Stillen Metal Matrix pads followed by
> a few
thousand miles on Roger's stock Mitsu pads before the Abexes went
>
on.
>
> Any suggestions? Is this normal? How can I
expedite the break-in in
> the interest of safety?
Thanx!!
Yes, you will not have full braking capability until two major
steps are
performed with new brake pads:
1) bed them to match the surface
of your rotors
2) outgas chemicals used in the construction of the
pads
Typically, item 1 is done by driving around normally for a few days
using light
braking. You still need to do this even if you install new
or machined rotors.
Item 2 is done by performing 6-12 high speed stops in
succession -- raising the
temp of the pads causes the unwanted chemicals to
boil out, This is what causes
the strong brake smell. While the
pads are outgassing, your brakes will fade
due to the layer of gas that
builds up between the rotor & pad while braking
hard. Lately John
Christian has been touting Shawn Dewy's BBQ treatment for
heat cycling and
outgassing the pads as the life of the pads seems to be
increased
greatly.
Something else to consider -- switching to a different compound
pad without
machining the rotors might be a problem. Supposedly
molecules from the first
set of pads gets imbedded into the surface of the
rotor. If the new pad's
compound is not compatible with the old pad,
you may have reduced friction for
awhile until the rotors wear a little and
the surface gets imbedded with the new
pad's molecules. Switching from
one brand of carbon kevlar to another should
really not be a problem
though.
Good luck,
Ken
- --
Drive faster, it is later than you
think!
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:32:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mike Baldwin <mbaldwin@eecs.tufts.edu>
Subject:
Team3S: Honking goose gone
Did you have a K&N installed? I also
suffer from honking goose syndrome
(and I have stock everything) and thought
maybe the problem was something
else. Lately I have noticed that tehre is a
burning smell coming from my
car. Any ideas?
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:23:31 -0700
From: "Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Question for Brake Gurus
My apologies, but this isn't about 20"
rotors, just the normal brakes on a
VR-4 :) For a friend of
mine:
car: 1994 VR-4
rotors: stock
calipers: stock
other stuff:
stock
alignment: good
wheel balancing: good
Problem:
When
braking (and only when braking) from speeds over 80mph, the car
vibrates
quite seriously and you feel like you're going to lose control of
which way
the car's going. I'm thinking it's a problem with the front
rotors
(warping?) or (more unlikely) the ABS. Any ideas on how to
further
diagnose this or if you know what the problem is, what should be done
next?
Thanks!
- --Erik
-
------
----------
Erik
Gross
DuPont, WA
'95 Pearl White 3000GT (base, DOHC,
5-speed) 62,000 mi
Firestone
Firehawk 245/50/ZR16 tires, stock wheels
Magnacor KV85 spark plug wires, NGK
plugs @ 0.040"
K&N FIPK (57-1500), resonator intact
Mobil 1 10W30
Synthetic w/ OEM oil filter
***No more ticking lash adjusters! Treated
with GM EOS, BG
44K FI cleaner. Change oil every 2000mi, filter
4000mi ***
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:39:36 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Coil Packs/VR4
What are the specs on the stock coil packs on the
VR4?
Im considering a retrofit of what I have on my Supra to the VR4 if
the wiring is
similar (it should be) but I havent investigated
yet.
But first, the actual output specs would come in handy.
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------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:54:22 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Honking goose gone / or not (findings)
During the period of
asking people about what filter they have this is the
result :
I got
14 replies :
7 FIPK ... 5 with goose
3 HKS ... 1 with goose
1 Greddy
... 1 with goose
3 Stock ... 1 with goose
Everybody with a BOV reports
the goose gone. Any setup with the stock BPV causes
a honcking goose even
stock. Even with the MAF the goose was there. Replacing
the valve then with a
1st gen or any other helps to get rid of this. It also
seems that the 2nd gen
is more prone to the sound than the first ones. Maybe
more boost but still
the old BPV.
My conclusion is that with the increased air flow the intake
vacuum "may"
increase just enough and causes the valve to be out of its
tolerances. Note that
one side of the valve is pushed from the boost in the
y-pipe, the other drawn
from the intake and only the spring together with the
boost from the intake
plenum pushes against it. The only solution is to use a
stronger BOV or even one
that has other specifications. The cheapest way is
to get a 1st gen DSM BPV and
one of the best is the Greddy BOV (also PBV)
that works really good by venting
back to the
intake.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
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------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:57:52 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Using Brake Cleaner to clean off Apex'i Bov
I know exactly what
you are speaking of :-) IMHO, brake cleaner is too
aggressive and the BOV has
some sealings as well as a rubber gasket that moves !
I used carb cleaner
spray as well as WD-40 and both worked very good.
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
> This may be a dumb question; is it safe to use a Brake Cleaner to
clean out
> the internals and external of my Apex'i Sequential Blow off
Valve? I had
> some major oil build up inside the BOV due to
possible blown turbos or
> internal motor problems.
For
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------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:02:44 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Coil Packs/VR4
Specs are :
0.67-0.81 Ohms primary,
11.3-15.3 kOhms secondary. Wires are max 22kOhms. One
line of each coil is
connected to the 12V switched on by ignition. The other
line is drawn down to
Ground with the power transistors.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
> What
are the specs on the stock coil packs on the VR4?
>
> Im
considering a retrofit of what I have on my Supra to the VR4 if the wiring
is
> similar (it should be) but I havent investigated yet.
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------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:14:08 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: new brake pads
My initial feelings are a
such.
1) You didnt resurface the rotors, you had HORRIBLE surface
contact area,
hardly any. IE: Your rotor wasnt flat, but the pads
were. Could also quickly
glaze the new pads in those areas (more
bad).
Dont skip steps when doing basic R&R on your car, you could
have hurt yerself.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Matthews [mailto:matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de]
Sent:
Friday, October 22, 1999 10:24 AM
To: Team 3S Tech List
Subject: Team3S:
new brake pads
As I mentioned in a post last night, yesterday I
installed new Abex
front brake pads. Today on the way home I came up on
my exit pretty
fast and could not slow down fast enough to take the
turn! I ended up
sailing on by with the pedal to the floor!
Pretty scarry, and I'm lucky
it wasn't an emergency situation.
Now I
know that most pads require a break-in period, but does this
sound
normal? This was my first hard braking on these pads. I did
a few more
on the way home and there was a strong brake smell and some
smoke. When
I got home I checked the rotors and fluid resevoir - both
looked good.
Note that the rotors were not turned prior to installing
these pads.
These rotors went though a set of Stillen Metal Matrix pads
followed by
a few thousand miles on Roger's stock Mitsu pads before the
Abexes went
on.
Any suggestions? Is this normal? How can I
expedite the break-in in
the interest of safety? Thanx!!
- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de
(64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top
Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb
99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
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------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:16:57 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Question for Brake Gurus
Yes, you have rotor
problems.
They are warping in a hurry under load (IE: heating up quickly
at high[er]
speeds).
Warping is perhaps the main reason I dont like to
resurface rotors (but when Im
poor and out of autox season..I do) because
when you resurface you loose mass in
the rotor, that mass absorbs heat and
will prevent warping in a controlled
proper cooldown. A rotor with less
thermal mass will tend to warp quicker.
BUT..you need rotors...and dont
forget new pads as well.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Gross,
Erik [mailto:erik.gross@intel.com]
Sent:
Friday, October 22, 1999 11:24 AM
To: 'Team3S List'
Subject: Team3S:
Question for Brake Gurus
My apologies, but this isn't about 20"
rotors, just the normal brakes on a
VR-4 :) For a friend of
mine:
car: 1994 VR-4
rotors: stock
calipers: stock
other stuff:
stock
alignment: good
wheel balancing: good
Problem:
When
braking (and only when braking) from speeds over 80mph, the car
vibrates
quite seriously and you feel like you're going to lose control of
which way
the car's going. I'm thinking it's a problem with the front
rotors
(warping?) or (more unlikely) the ABS. Any ideas on how to
further
diagnose this or if you know what the problem is, what should be done
next?
Thanks!
- --Erik
-
------
----------
Erik
Gross
DuPont, WA
'95 Pearl White 3000GT (base, DOHC,
5-speed) 62,000 mi
Firestone
Firehawk 245/50/ZR16 tires, stock wheels
Magnacor KV85 spark plug wires, NGK
plugs @ 0.040"
K&N FIPK (57-1500), resonator intact
Mobil 1 10W30
Synthetic w/ OEM oil filter
***No more ticking lash adjusters! Treated
with GM EOS, BG
44K FI cleaner. Change oil every 2000mi, filter
4000mi ***
-
-------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 12:33:44 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Coil Packs/VR4
Im not an electrical guy..sorry *grin*..but is
11.3-15.4KOhms the output of the
coil to spark?
- -----Original
Message-----
From: R.G. [mailto:robby@swissonline.ch]
Sent:
Friday, October 22, 1999 12:03 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Coil Packs/VR4
Specs are :
0.67-0.81 Ohms primary,
11.3-15.3 kOhms secondary. Wires are max 22kOhms. One
line of each coil is
connected to the 12V switched on by ignition. The other
line is drawn down to
Ground with the power transistors.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
> What
are the specs on the stock coil packs on the VR4?
>
> Im
considering a retrofit of what I have on my Supra to the VR4 if the
wiring
is
> similar (it should be) but I havent investigated
yet.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:47:03 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Team3S:
Knock, knock ....
Knock .... caused by detonation, to high tolerances and
more is the major
enemy of our engine. We know that there are some things
like higher octane,
water injection, ignition upgrade and ... fuel ....can
help to get rid of
the knock. We know that the later is normally used for the
power and not to
cool the chamber but looking at the stock rich condition
this made me
thinking.
If you haven't already seen my MAF installation
page go and check out the
picture of the first datalog. As I tuned the fuel
controller I did this like
everyone with the help of an A/F meter. This, of
course, is simply a
voltmeter that shows the voltage with a range from 0-1V.
Devided by 10 LEDs
this means each one represents 10mV. I therefore tuned the
thing in to go up
to 0.9V at WOT. I did this and got the car running well and
it felt good.
But the datalog then showed the truth : knock allover the
bandwidth. In 1st,
2nd and a bit more in 3rd due to the heavy load, but
always there. The most
interesting thing was that the ECU did NOT retard the
timing even with a lot
knock ! Why ?? Is this because the ECU was maybe still
learning ? Or could
the fact of a static barometric and temp signal be the
cause ? Or was the
ECU still ignoring this high knock amount ? The later logs
showed then the
ignition got retarded the longer I ran the car. The car
already runned at
least 10 miles before I made the tests and this tells me
that it really take
soem time until the ECU even learned to retard the
ignition.
Now the last finding reminded me that people are resetting the
ECU before a
run on the track and will see better performance then. Sure, we
know why :
The timing is advanced and, even with knock, it is not retarded !
Result :
more power ... and more danger. Therefore, if you do this ONLY DO
THIS with
racing gas. The ECU is not able to take care of it !
Now the
more critical thing : O2 sensor readings. Look again at the pic and
you can
see that the injector curve is much lower after the MAF because I
haven't had
it tuned in fully. But the O2 sensors showed rich 0.92 Volts
WITH knock.
Argh, I hate this word ..... Now one would say bah, this little
knock, but
hey this can and will hurt your engine more and more. Now how
would I have
the ARC or any fuel controller tuned in without the datalogger
??? Yeah,
right, with the A/F meter. But the meter is not the problem,
although the
higher the resolution the better the ability to tune in the
fuel controlling
device. But the question is still there : How much knock do
I really have,
none, little or too much ?
I'm happy to be able to have the datalogger
and the longer I look at the
graphs the more do I say to myself ... $300 for
the logger would have saved
me $3200 or more for replacing the pistons. I
highly recommend using a good
diagnostic tool when you are a serious car
enthusiast (yep, me) with a thin
wallet (me too) and a great racer (ahem, not
me).
Today I'd say an A/F meter, a good voltmeter with peak hold feature
and temp
reading are necessary when you start to tweak the fuel system. Even
more I
recommend an EGT meter and a device like logger to be able to get the
most
out of your car without too much danger of cracking something.
Please
understand that I learnt a lot due to my ignorance and I paid for this
as
many of us did in the past (including a lot friends that are not knowing
the
Internet).
Now the ultimate tool would be .... a knock meter ! I
do have the MSD knock
sensor that comes with a good filter and it's own piezo
coupler (microphone)
but I haven't found any place where it would fit. I will
try to find a space
close to the stock sensor when I change the injectors bit
I do not plan to
tap into the stock sensor. But this wouldn't be a bad thing,
because tests
by John Basol showed that a knock LED my work although
something went wrong
and fried the knock sensor (who knows...) But creating
such a device that
attaches to the stock sensor or to an output of the ECU
(not the solenoid
LED) with about three LEDs for the knock intensity will be
worth a lot ! It
would have saved mine and other engine as well as some more
I see in the
future.
Ok friends, some thoughts from me regarding fuel
and that it is not easy to
stay away from the dark zone. Getting injectors,
an ARC, pump big turbos,
everything results in more hp ... but we need
HEALTHY horses and not little
ponies that are byte by the dogs.
Happy
boosting
Roger,
93'3000GT TT
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web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:50:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mike Baldwin <mbaldwin@eecs.tufts.edu>
Subject:
Team3S: Burning smell from car
It doesn't smell like how a clutch
normally smells. Plus Im not noticing
any slip or anything.
The car
only has 19k miles on it.. hmmm.. any tests for a bad
clutch?
mb
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------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:44:42 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Question for Brake Gurus
>Problem: When braking (and only
when braking) from speeds over 80mph, the car
>vibrates quite seriously
and you feel like you're going to lose control of
>which way the car's
going. I'm thinking it's a problem with the front
>rotors (warping?)
or (more unlikely) the ABS. Any ideas on how to further
>diagnose
this or if you know what the problem is, what should be done next?
Warped
rotors, most likely. Take it to a brake shop and get them turned.
Rich/old poop/94 VR4/somebody stop me.>
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info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:26:26 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
new brake pads
> As I mentioned in a post last night, yesterday I
installed new Abex
> front brake pads. Today on the way home I came
up on my exit pretty
> fast and could not slow down fast enough to take
the turn! I ended up
> sailing on by with the pedal to the
floor! Pretty scarry, and I'm lucky
> it wasn't an emergency
situation.
>
> Now I know that most pads require a break-in period,
but does this sound
> normal? This was my first hard braking on
these pads. I did a few more
> on the way home and there was a
strong brake smell and some smoke. When
> I got home I checked the
rotors and fluid resevoir - both looked
good.
======================================================
Pad
bedding is done by running the pads through a complete heat cycle.
Wilwood
sez ---- do a few low speed stops to make sure the system is
working then
gradually increase the braking and speed until the brakes
come up to racing
temperature. Then allow the brakes to cool by driving
without using the
brakes [ if possible ] . When I did my Porsche/Brembo
brakes I drove around
for 20 min or so then parked it without using the
hand brake until they
cooled completely.
Jim Berry
For
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------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:37:31 -0700
From: "Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Brake Pads needed
I live in the Bay Area, and I need new pads for
a 95 VR4.
I have a set of Hawks on there now (talk about dust) and theyre
beginning to
squeal on me a lot...
What around here can I purchacse
other than stock?
I wont like doing this, but this month is a "poor"
month, and I will be turning
rotors till next autox season when new ones will
be purchased.
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------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:25:52 -0500
From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
VR4-AWS?
>> > Hmm, wouldn't a 40/60 split be more desirable
for
>> > autocrossing? Would it be possible to convert
to
>> > the 40/60 split on a 2nd gen?
>>
>> Sure,
downgrade to the 5-speed tranny...
>As the owner of a 93 TT I would
consider the change to a five speed
>as being an upgrade :-)
> Jim Berry
Jim & All-
Wow; I'm snowed!
Are we talking about the power split between the
front and rear axels?
I have a '95 VR-4, and have read that the split is
45% front, 55% rear.
I assume this ratio is somehow controlled by the
fluid coupling in the
transaxel, but I sure as hell don't know how it works.
Anyone willing to post
a tutorial on this topic?
Regards,
ptg
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info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:33:59 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Question for Brake Gurus
>
> Problem:
> When braking
(and only when braking) from speeds over 80mph, the car
> vibrates quite
seriously and you feel like you're going to lose control of
> which way
the car's going. I'm thinking it's a problem with the front
> rotors
(warping?) or (more unlikely) the ABS. Any ideas on how to further
>
diagnose this or if you know what the problem is, what should be done
next?
=====================================================
Most
likely the rotors --- at moderate speed gently apply a little brake and
at
the same time release your hold on the steering wheel [ try not to crash
].
If the rotors are warped the steering wheel will rock back and forth 1/4"
or so.
Remember, just enough brake to touch the pad to the rotor. He could
also
have some worn steering parts eg. tie rod ends.
Jim
berry
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------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:11:24 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
VR4-AWS?
>
> Jim & All-
> Wow; I'm snowed! Are
we talking about the power split between the
> front and rear axels?
I have a '95 VR-4, and have read that the split is
> 45% front, 55%
rear. I assume this ratio is somehow controlled by the
> fluid
coupling in the transaxel, but I sure as hell don't know how it works.
>
Anyone willing to post a tutorial on this
topic?
=================================================
Yup yer right
---- all the torque splitting takes place inside the viscous
coupling unit in
the transmission and, just like the weather all we can
do is talk about it
--- we can't change it.
'the unit itself is simple in theory --- there are a
series of stacked disks
attached to the input shaft interleaved with a series
of disks attached
to the output shaft. The spacing of the disks and the
viscosity of the
fluid determine how much force is transmitted to the output
shaft. The
reality is more complex, the viscous coupler is a cylinder about
10"
long and 6" in diameter with a drive gear around the outside of
one
end [ input ] a taper bearing on the other end to locate and hold
in
place. The output is a concentric shaft that goes to the front
differential
[ in the transmission ] and to the transfer case. In the case of
my
disassembled spare transmission the internal magic is, and shall
remain
unknown.
Jim Berry
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------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 15:50:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Errin Daniel Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject:
Team3S: SL/VR4 Caliper Clearance
[Sorry if this message comes out weird,
but this
is my first time composing an email in PINE.]
This is kind of
urgent, so I would really
appreciate a prompt response.
Could
somebody please tell me, to the closest
accuracy possible, the difference in
wheel
clearance between a second gen 3000GT SL (or
Stealth ES) and a
second gen 3000GT VR4 (or
Stealth TT), in millimeters if possible. I
am
referring to the distance from the edge of the
caliper to the nearest
edge of the wheel spoke.
I can't use the distance from a the caliper
to
the wheel spoke on an NA 3/S because they have
different stock wheels
than mine (I have 94 17"
VR4 wheels). I actually need to know (as
close
as possible) how much farther the calipers on
a VR4/TT stick out
compared to an NA.
Or could somebody please measure the distance
(on
an NA 3/S car) from the rotor to the farthest
out point on the brake
caliper? Then I can
compare this to my car, but I think I will
need
to compensate for thinner rotors on the NA.
I really appreciate
the help,
- --Errin Humphrey
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web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 19:24:06 -0700
From: Joe Gonsowski <twinturbo@mediaone.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Knock, knock ....
R.G. wrote:
> I'm happy to be
able to have the datalogger and the longer I look at the
> graphs the more
do I say to myself ... $300 for the logger would have saved
> me $3200 or
more for replacing the pistons. I highly recommend using a good
>
diagnostic tool when you are a serious car enthusiast (yep, me) with a
thin
> wallet (me too) and a great racer (ahem, not me).
I could
not agree more, I now have a chance of correctly tuning the car with
mods.
Before I got the datalogger, I'd many times have to guess how my car
liked or disliked a
change I made. Now, with much less frustration, I
can tune in the car.
> Today I'd say an A/F meter, a good voltmeter
with peak hold feature and temp
> reading are necessary when you start to
tweak the fuel system. Even more I
> recommend an EGT meter and a device
like logger to be able to get the most
> out of your car without too much
danger of cracking something. Please
> understand that I learnt a lot due
to my ignorance and I paid for this as
> many of us did in the past
(including a lot friends that are not knowing the
>
Internet).
Roger and others - Do you feel you can safely run a car with
the datalogger alone. For
example if I run high enough octane fuel to
eliminate knock at a given boost level, do I
guarantee I'm not damaging the
engine? Or, is knock only part of the picture, you
should also watch
EGT temps and O2 voltage to ensure your not running lean? Can
running
lean damage the engine if its not severe enough to cause
knock?
Thanks,
Joe Gonsowski
'92 R?T TT
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subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 22 Oct 1999 20:38:45 -0500
From: "Oskar" <swede@pclink.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
SL/VR4 Caliper Clearance
Errin - if you're after caliper to rim
measurements for a 2nd gen VR-4 I
think you cannot compare to a Stealth
TT. As recently discovered by Mike
Chapelski it appears that the
Stealth TT calipers are somewhat wider that
the VR-4 counterpart.
In
case you still need it, my '95 R/T TT with 18" factory chrome wheels
measure
7 mm between the outer edge of the caliper and the inside of
the
rim.
Oskar
>
> Could somebody please tell me,
to the closest
> accuracy possible, the difference in wheel
>
clearance between a second gen 3000GT SL (or
> Stealth ES) and a second
gen 3000GT VR4 (or
> Stealth TT), in millimeters if possible.
For
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------------------------------
End
of Team3S Digest V1 #315
****************************
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