--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #309
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest        Saturday, October 16 1999        Volume 01 : Number 309




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:39:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: George Kuo <amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Mileage question

Hi Chris and All...

Speaking of losing miles per gallon due to larger
injectors and pump... I actually retained or even
getting better milege with the RC 550s and HKS/Cusmo
pump..

I think its due to the ARC-2GP's awesome ability to
control larger injestors.  With the ARM1 (A/F
monitor), I'm (with help from Brian of GTPro) able to
tune the ARC-2GP unit to run the car rich @ high
boosts (i know, i know Roger, wasting fuel/energy~
hehe..) and good mixture when the car idles and at
city/hwy driving.. I havent touched the setting for
months now.. and it runs great when im just crusing..
and awesome when I need to out-run that V8!! =)

Stock fuel system: 17-20 MPG
ARC, 550s, pump: 19-21 MPG
(a day at the track: 6-8 MPG!!)

George
check out my homepage:
www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Flats/8576/Intro.html

- --- Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com> wrote:
> Roger...
>
> Are you still using the stock injectors? My driving
> style remained the same,
> but my mileage dropped by roughly 25% (from 15-16
> down to 11-12) when I
> changed my injectors and fuel pump.
>
> BTW...I imagine I'd get better mileage if I was
> cruising at any steady speed
> (even the wonderful speeds you have on the autobahn)
> but most of my driving
> is city driving. Start and stop, 0 to 60, 60 to 0, 0
> to 100, OR even worse,
> 0 to 30, 30 to 10, 10 to 20 (commuter traffic).
> Probably the worst fuel
> economy type of driving
>
> Looking forward...Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: R.G. [mailto:robby@freesurf.ch]
> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 1999 2:22 PM
> To: Stealth List
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Mileage question
>
> Chris, cruising at 4500 ??? Wow, this is why my
> 15psi running car now puts
> out 28 mpg as on the highway I'm cruising at
> 2800-3000. On the german
> autobahn mileage is getting very bad with speeds
> around 150 and more. During
> my ecessive testings the last weeks mileage went
> down to about 18mpg :-(
> <snip>
>
> Later
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>


=====

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:47:45 -0600
From: "CEskelsen" <cesk@redrock.net>
Subject: Team3S: The Goose is Gone!

Hi All,
    My baby just survived her 60k service.  Thanks to all for warnings and
advice!  I had the tensioner and water pump replaced.  As I rolled onto the
freeway, I noticed the absence of the Honking Goose!  Not sure what made the
difference, but my Goose used to appear in first and second gear under any
acceleration, but no more...

Thanks again everyone,
Cory Eskelsen
96 R/T TT

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 01:53:25 EDT
From: Petrosvr4@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: warranty problems

Hi everyone
I would like to get some opinions about the  problems that I have to deal
with.
My rack pinion die on me and the warranty company doesn't want to pay for new
(Mits. offers only new) and they want to put a reman. Aftermarket.
do I have any other choices? Maybe a used  mits. from M&S?
Also I need new front brake calipers (I have a base 3000gt). Can I just
switch to 94 and after calipers with any modifications? what are the
differences?
I took also  the car to the dealer this morning to change the A/C clutch and
he told me that i need new A/C pulley,tensioner and A/C belt. he told me the
warranty covers only the clutch and not the rest. i thought the clutch was
coming with the pulley, and i had in my 60K tune up (done in 65700m. in
different  dealership, now i the car has 810000) and i change the A/C
belt.how can go bad after 15000miles
plus my timing belt start to making noises.
Also, I am on the market for new tires. Does anyone remember the website that
had some comparisons?
Finally, do i have to worry about anything else (change it under warranty)
before my warranty is over?
thanks in advance
petros
3si#126
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 08:45:22 -0700
From: Nick Xiong <nxiong@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Pictures of Carbon fiber hood and body panel fitments.

wow, the hood looks good... and I can't believe you really are doing the
full 99 conversion.. how did you get the 99 top/B pillar in?
___________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:00:47 -0500
From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: warranty problems

> My rack pinion die on me and the warranty company doesn't
> want to pay for new (Mits. offers only new) and they want
> to put a reman. Aftermarket.  do I have any other choices?
> Maybe a used  mits. from M&S?

Check over your warranty contract.  There's probably fine print in there that says they can substitute aftermarket parts if they wish.  If not, then I would force them to do it the same way the dealership would do it - with factory originals.

> Also I need new front brake calipers (I have a base 3000gt).
> Can I just switch to 94 and after calipers with any
> modifications? what are the differences?

I'm pretty sure you need the 17x8.5 wheels to put VR4 calipers on there or they won't clear the wheels.

> I took also  the car to the dealer this morning to change the
> A/C clutch and he told me that i need new A/C pulley,tensioner
> and A/C belt.  he told me the warranty covers only the clutch
> and not the rest. i thought the clutch was coming with the
> pulley, and i had in my 60K tune up (done in 65700m. in
> different  dealership, now i the car has 810000) and i change
> the A/C belt.how can go bad after 15000miles
> plus my timing belt start to making noises.

I'd take it back to the original dealer that did the timing belt and AC belt and make them fix their mistake.  It sounds like they put too much tension on the AC belt.  They should also re-do the timing belt if it is making noises or tension doesn't seem correct.  If they refuse, a nice little lawsuit should change their mind - sue for the money to have it redone, don't let them redo it.

> Also, I am on the market for new tires. Does anyone remember
> the website that had some comparisons?  Finally, do i have to
> worry about anything else (change it under warranty)
> before my warranty is over?

If you manage to get all that stuff "covered" somehow, then I'd pay for them to put in a new water pump at the same time as they are doing the timing belt.  Very easy to do, since they are all the way in there anyway.

- -Matt
95 3000GT Spyder VR4

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:24:27 EDT
From: TurboDrvn@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Update:  Still NO BOOST!!!!!!

hello all,

    Well, I think I have serious problems.  I took apart my Apex'i sequential
blow off valve to install the stock one; I found LOTS of oil within my Apex'i
unit; all the oil dripped out of the bov; I am beginning to think that my
Turbo seals are shot????????  I went ahead and installed the stock bov and
sure enough.....STILL NO BOOST!!!!!  I do NOT think I should even spend the
time and money on replacing my spark plugs again (That was my next plan of
attack-I don't think it will do anything); I have a real BAD feeling about
this.....

A very disappointed,
 
Ahmed "AL-Crazy" - '92 VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:43:13 -0500
From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Update:  Still NO BOOST!!!!!!

>     Well, I think I have serious problems.  I took apart my
> Apex'i sequential blow off valve to install the stock one;
> I found LOTS of oil within my Apex'i unit; all the oil
> dripped out of the bov; I am beginning to think that my
> Turbo seals are shot????????  I went ahead and installed the
> stock bov and sure enough.....STILL NO BOOST!!!!!  I do NOT
> think I should even spend the time and money on replacing my
> spark plugs again (That was my next plan of attack-I don't
> think it will do anything); I have a real BAD feeling about
> this.....

That doesn't sound good...  I'd try a compression test on at least the front three cylinders.  If those look OK, I'd do the rear three as well.  That should at least help narrow it down to either a turbo problem or piston/ring/etc problem.  Sounds a lot like what RG had with his blown pistons/rings.  :-(

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:43:22 -0700
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Update:  Still NO BOOST!!!!!!

Ahmed...

Are you blowing oil out the exhaust? That was my symptom when I spun the
bearings on my first set of 15Gs.

Looking forward...Chris

- -----Original Message-----
From: TurboDrvn@aol.com [mailto:TurboDrvn@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 7:24 AM
To: robby@swissonline.ch
Cc: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Update: Still NO BOOST!!!!!!


hello all,

    Well, I think I have serious problems.  I took apart my Apex'i
sequential
blow off valve to install the stock one; I found LOTS of oil within my
Apex'i
unit; all the oil dripped out of the bov; I am beginning to think that my
Turbo seals are shot????????  I went ahead and installed the stock bov and
sure enough.....STILL NO BOOST!!!!!  I do NOT think I should even spend the
time and money on replacing my spark plugs again (That was my next plan of
attack-I don't think it will do anything); I have a real BAD feeling about
this.....

A very disappointed,
 
Ahmed "AL-Crazy" - '92 VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 07:47:55 -0700
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Mileage question/ARC

George...

Can you provide a little more detail about the ARC unit? It seems I saw a
brief description some time back, but I can't locate it. Does it replace the
MAS like the AFC? Direct plug in? Or? Fits all generations?

Also, some more information on your mods as a point of comparison?

Looking forward...Chris

- -----Original Message-----
From: George Kuo [mailto:amkreadgto@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 1999 5:40 PM
To: Stealth List
Subject: RE: Team3S: Mileage question


Hi Chris and All...

Speaking of losing miles per gallon due to larger
injectors and pump... I actually retained or even
getting better milege with the RC 550s and HKS/Cusmo
pump..

I think its due to the ARC-2GP's awesome ability to
control larger injestors.  With the ARM1 (A/F
monitor), I'm (with help from Brian of GTPro) able to
tune the ARC-2GP unit to run the car rich @ high
boosts (i know, i know Roger, wasting fuel/energy~
hehe..) and good mixture when the car idles and at
city/hwy driving.. I havent touched the setting for
months now.. and it runs great when im just crusing..
and awesome when I need to out-run that V8!! =)

Stock fuel system: 17-20 MPG
ARC, 550s, pump: 19-21 MPG
(a day at the track: 6-8 MPG!!)

George
check out my homepage:
www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Flats/8576/Intro.html
<snip>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:48:45 EDT
From: TurboDrvn@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Update:  Still NO BOOST!!!!!!

In a message dated 10/15/99 9:43:59 AM Central Daylight Time,
cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com writes:

<< Ahmed...
 
 Are you blowing oil out the exhaust? That was my symptom when I spun the
 bearings on my first set of 15Gs.
 
 Looking forward...Chris >>

Hey Chris,

    Yes I am blowing oil out of the exhaust; I referred to that on my
previous posts thinking they were worn valve seals........but maybe not??? 
the oil smoke only occurs when I decelerate and sometimes at stop signs.....I
have NO oil (smoke) coming out of my exhaust when I accelerate and the RPM's
increase.......I'm thinking turbo seals or piston?????   NEED to do a
compression test soon!

Chris, when you spun the bearings on your 15G's..what type of frequency of
smoke did you have out of your exhaust???

I'll keep everyone posted,

Ahmed.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:40:33 -0500
From: "Benson \"elmagoo\" Russell" <benson@2015.com>
Subject: Team3S: warranty problems

A really good site for tires is www.tirerack.com :)


Latufh fuh U,
Benson
benson@2015.com

"-Do you ever have second thoughts?
- -When do I ever have first thoughts?"

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:45:04 EDT
From: TrboDrvr@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: warranty problems

With regard to your warranty question and the steering rack, check your
warranty agreement to see if it gives the company the option of using
aftermarket parts.  If it does, then you are stuck.  If not, then you can
argue.

Joe 91TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:51:46 EDT
From: TrboDrvr@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Update:  Still NO BOOST!!!!!!

Ahmed:

    I think your problem is definitely the seals and bearings since that is
the only way you will get oil in your BOV.  Worn piston rings will cause you
to burn oil.  The oil will never get to your BOV (in fact, it has no way of
getting there from the cylinders unless your valve seats are extremely worn
in which your car would never run because of lack of compression).  Plus,
your symptoms are lack of boost and not lack of compression.  So I'd start
with the turbos.  I think you have a condition known as "blow by" where your
turbo seals are gone and the oil is "blowing by" them.  Just my 2 cents.

Joe 91 TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:52:08 -0500
From: "Dennis Moore" <stealth@quixnet.net>
Subject: Team3S: Stealth for Sale

Hi All,

As much as I love my Stealth, it's up for sale.  I'm moving "over the
water", and won't be taking it with me.  (If it's any consolation, I
hope to pick up a low-miles 3K Spyder when I get back...)

So, if you know of anyone looking for a fun ride, send them my
way.  Here are the particulars:

93 Stealth ES, 5-spd, Red w/Grey cloth interior, 111,000 miles,
AM/FM/Cass/CD-Changer, Firestone SZ-50's with less than 5k
miles on them.  The car is in Indiana, and has been garage kept all
of its life (including hibernating for most of the winter there).  Very
few city miles, <~20K.  Paint is in "B+/A-" condition with a couple
rock chips, no rips or tears in the interior.  Everything works, no
broken knobs or buttons.

Based on Kelly and Edmunds, I'm thinking US$7,250 is a good
starting point for asking price.  Comments?

You guys have saved me thousands in maintenance and repairs
over the years.  Thanks!  Glad I found this group (and starnet, back
in the good old days...)!

Dennis Moore
93 Stealth ES
stealth@quixnet.net
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:14:07 -0500
From: "Landis, Michael" <MLandis@casham.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: warranty problems

Joe is right - check the fine print of your warranty.  Since many extended
warranties are just glorified insurance policies, the common verbage may be
"like kind and quality" - or LKQ in insurance jargon.  Unfortunately, what
we (the customer) call "like kind and quality" and what they call LKQ are
NOT the same.  "Like kind and quality" on your standard comprehensive auto
insurance means rebuilt, or aftermarket, or even "used with comparable
milage and wear" - not "new from the factory".  So if you wreck your car and
crack the block, don't expect them to replace the motor with a new crate
motor - it won't happen.  Usually they'll only pay for a used engine with
similar (or maybe less) milage on it.  The same would be true if you trashed
the rack and pinion in a wreck.  I'm not familiar enough with extended
warranties to know what their usual terms are, but it's worth a close look.

Michael
"The bold print giveth, and the fine print taketh away."

> -----Original Message-----
> From: TrboDrvr@aol.com [SMTP:TrboDrvr@aol.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 10:45 AM
> To: Petrosvr4@aol.com; stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: Re: Team3S: warranty problems
>
> With regard to your warranty question and the steering rack, check your
> warranty agreement to see if it gives the company the option of using
> aftermarket parts.  If it does, then you are stuck.  If not, then you can
> argue.
>
> Joe 91TT
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:11:10 EDT
From: TurboDrvn@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Update:  Still NO BOOST!!!!!!

In a message dated 10/15/99 10:53:28 AM Central Daylight Time,
TrboDrvr@aol.com writes:

<< Ahmed:
 
     I think your problem is definitely the seals and bearings since that is
 the only way you will get oil in your BOV.  Worn piston rings will cause you
 to burn oil.  The oil will never get to your BOV (in fact, it has no way of
 getting there from the cylinders unless your valve seats are extremely worn
 in which your car would never run because of lack of compression).  Plus,
 your symptoms are lack of boost and not lack of compression.  So I'd start
 with the turbos.  I think you have a condition known as "blow by" where your
 turbo seals are gone and the oil is "blowing by" them.  Just my 2 cents.
 
 Joe 91 TT >>

I think you nailed it on the head, Joe!  But I still want to proceed with the
compression test .......and take it from there.......chances are......you are
totally right.....since I would NOT get oil in my BOV if it were an internal
motor problem (ex: piston rings, valve seals, etc.); everything is pointed
toward my turbos.....

I will keep everyone updated......thanks again to all who have advised
me......

Ahmed "AL-Crazy"
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:36:53 -0500
From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Update:  Still NO BOOST!!!!!!

>     I think your problem is definitely the seals and bearings
> since that is the only way you will get oil in your BOV.
> Worn piston rings will cause you to burn oil.  The oil will
> never get to your BOV (in fact, it has no way of getting
> there from the cylinders unless your valve seats are
> extremely worn in which your car would never run because of
> lack of compression).  Plus, your symptoms are lack of boost
> and not lack of compression.  So I'd start with the turbos.
> I think you have a condition known as "blow by" where your
> turbo seals are gone and the oil is "blowing by" them.  Just
> my 2 cents.

If it was just turbo seals, the car should still make boost.  The oil might not be coming into the intake from the turbos, it can also get in there from EGR and PCV if the rings aren't sealing the cylinders and are causing blowby.  Compression test is way easier than pulling off turbos, and Ahmed indicated that the wheels spun freely without play.  That would indicate the bearings at least should be fine, and the seals shouldn't leak enough to make the car produce no boost.  Still not sure why there's no boost, but compression is very easy to check and turbos seem to be ruled out at the moment from previous troubleshooting.

I could see one turbo seal going bad, but both at the same time?  Should still see boost even if only one turbo is functional.

Not saying you are wrong, just thinking that I would personally try the easier diagnostic tools before removing turbos to get a better idea of the health of the motor itself before looking at parts that typically don't fail bad enough to give these sorts of symptoms.

Look at Roger's page and see if this sounds familiar:

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/engine_problems.html

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:02:35 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject: Team3S: 120K service, problems

Hi folks,

I'm glad Cory E.'s 60K service went well.  I fear mine did not :(.

I had my 120K service performed on my '91 VR4 Wednesday at 105K since my
waterpump, no doubt original, began leaking recently.  As an aside, all the
parts appeared to be in very good condition.  The old timing belt looked almost
unused even though it had been on there for 50K miles and presumably anti-freeze
had leaked on it.  Some of the idler pully bearings were at the noisy stage
though but with no play/sloppiness, they probably were 105K old too.

Anyway I suspect that the cams were not aligned properly since I have acquired
the following symptoms since the service:
1) car seems to surge mildly under moderate throttle and cruising
2) reduced torque below 2800RPM
3) seems to need more throttle & boost to maintain cruising speed
4) boost spools up faster and hits harder at 2800RPM
5) when I lift off the throttle, the rumbling from the muffler seems louder with
occasional mild backpopping
6) at idle the RPM seems to move around more (not just when the AC cycles)

These symptoms were non-existent prior to the service.  I fixed a leak in the
throttle body last night but notice no change ( I removed the gasket and turned
it around to the correct orientation, the leak & hissing disappeared).  I think
all other hoses are fine and installed correctly since I don't hear any hissing
or see any unconnected.

WOT accels seem fine, but there is less torque below 2800RPM, the boost seems to
hit harder at 2800, I can reach my set boost OK, but not always smooth,
sometimes overshoot a lot (i.e. that surging again), even though I attain set
boost, the car doesn't seem as quick.

Anyway, I'm soliciting your opinions.  I have my boost controller off now so
boost is at 6psi.  I don't think that the new belt, waterpump, pulleys &
bearings should have added so much drag on the engine to produce the above
symptoms.  I will notify my service manager today after I hear your
input/suggestions.

Thanks in advance,
Ken

- --
Drive faster, it is later than you think!

Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 16:54:46 -0600
From: "Ricardo Cousar" <rcousar@datawest.net>
Subject: Team3S: Skyline question

I was just wondering if anyone knows who made the tranny for HK$ skyline, I
am pretty sure it's not stock so someone had to make it for them.

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:53:30 -0500
From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 120K service, problems

> 1) car seems to surge mildly under moderate throttle and cruising
> 2) reduced torque below 2800RPM
> 3) seems to need more throttle & boost to maintain cruising speed
> 4) boost spools up faster and hits harder at 2800RPM
> 5) when I lift off the throttle, the rumbling from the
> muffler seems louder with
> occasional mild backpopping
> 6) at idle the RPM seems to move around more (not just when
> the AC cycles)

Sounds like the exhaust cam is off a tooth, and maybe the intake cam as well.  My previous car ('93 Eclipse GSX) did the same thing when I bought it, and I changed the timing belt immediately and found they had misaligned the cams by one tooth on the exhaust side.  Identical symptoms.  Very easy to have the misalignment occur if you don't use clips to hold the T-belt in place as you are aligning the cams as they will tend to rotate one tooth under their own pressure if not held in place by the T-belt.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:31:44 -0500
From: "Basol, John" <jbasol@Carlson.com>
Subject: Team3S: Turbo Question

Hi everybody,
It's been a while since I have played with mods on the Stealth and I
thought a quick report was due on how she is holding up, as well as what I
want to do next.
My first post this list indicated that I decided to try a mod that
hadn't been openly tried by many on the list, water injection.  A great
number of discussions ensued after my initial reports of how well the car
seemed to like 'getting' a little drink'.  :-)  So I thought  should perhaps
give a little bit of a long-term report.
The Spearco 980 water injection system was installed on my car the
first week of June.  Installation was simple right up to the point where I
had to find a spot for the water tank (finally located in the front air
dam).  It has now been a little more than 5 months since it was installed.
So far, so good.  The car still loves receiving a shower of water, just as
much today as when it was installed.  Since the installation I had one of
the nozzles clog, due to an improperly rinsed out tank (still had a metal
particle in it), and I had the pump itself give out.  I replaced the pump
with a large fuel pump, and started using a LOT more water.  The car still
loved this though.  It has been about 4 months since the pump replacement,
and that pump seems to be holding up much better.
Along with the WI system I designed a simple bandpass filter and
indicator to connect to the knock sensor signal wire coming inside the cabin
to the ECU.  At first repot this seemed to work great, but the long term was
not such a good story.  About 2 months ago I started to notice this very
slight 'misfire'.  It was not even noticable by others when I took them for
rides to demonstrate it, but to me it was a huge deal.  Thinking that it had
to be ignition related, I started researching new ignition components, but
after Roger's report about the B&M not helping any, I decided to let the
local dealer look at my problem.  What did they find?  The knock sensor was
bad.  How?  The dealer has no idea what could have caused this.  Me? I think
it was probably my little circuit attached to the line.  I promptly removed
said circuit while the part was being shipped in, and took it in to have the
new knock sensor installed without my circuit installed.  When I got the car
back, all was good again.  So now I have an LED monitoring the boost control
solenoid..., not as effective, but until Todd Day decides to make a
datalogger for those of us unfortunate enough to own 94+ cars, this will
have to do.
Now for what's next.  I have no intention of making this machine an
all out drag car, I have different avenue to travel with that, but maximum
street performance....That's what I'm after.  I feel pretty comfortable
saying the car is currently pulling about 410hp, but I want some more.  :-)
To take the car further than it's current state is going to require the
removal of my all-too-tiny-9B turbos  and install something with some more
punch.  My problem...streetability.  13G's seem nice, but I want a little
more.  The 15G's I have heard have noticably more lag to them.  The price
difference between the two is not really enough to justify using 13G's
either.  So what about a middle ground?
As I'm driving to work this morning in my commuter car (a 1st Gen
DSM w/ a manual boost controller), I commented to wife: "Damn I love how
this things pulls so strong to the redline."  It hit me like a
rock...14B's!?!  The first Gen DSMs use a single 14B turbo that on that 2.0
liter four is capable of holding 17-18psi easy to the line.  Cost?  Damn...I
have seen those things going on the DSM trader for 100-200 a piece.  Will
those things bolt to our manifold?  Seems to me they might be a good
intermediate step.  A set of 14Bs, 550cc injectors, Supra fuel pump, and an
AFC...could make for a nice little machine to play Viper tag with.  :-)


John Basol
System Management Services

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:45:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: George Kuo <amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Mileage question/ARC

Hi Chris,

The following is copied from an email from Brian @
GTPro:

<<snip>>
- -----------------------------------------------------

This unit as I told you is FAR SUPERIOR to the VPC.
In my opinion, the VPC SUCKS!, what the VPC does is
convert the MAF system to a speed density system, and
it does this through signal manipulation, but
some stuff gets lost in the conversion. The net result
is good WOT, but a BIG sacrifice in daily drivability,
and throttle response. The VPC tends to be a
little "lazy" esspecially in the throttle response
area. The ARC-2GP solves ALL of these problems. You
will have PERFECT drivability, throttle response,
and WOT. The reason is that since we are only
converting to a "hot wire" style MAF system vs a
Karman Vortex style system (stock Mitsu), we are
still using a MAF signal that the factory ECU can
handle. Through carefull signal conditioning, and
manipulation the ARC-2GP will yeild the correct
signals to the ECU. The factory ECU is mapped for a
MAF signal, and once you try to send it speed density
modified signals, it is not right. I can tell you
this, I have SOO mush confidence that you are going to
LOVE the ARC-2GP system, I will give you your money
back if you don't like what it does to your car, and
you want to install a VPC instead. I gaurantee you
that
if youhad a VPC to try, and we hooked up the VPC
first, and tuned it, then ripped it out and then
installed the ARC-2GP, you will see a DRAMATIC
difference in the way the car responds, and you'll end
up keeping the ARC-2GP on the car.
- ------------------------------------------------------
<<snip>>

You can find more info on this unit on
www.splitsec.com.  I believe this unit can fit ALL
years of 3S, TT or NA.  I think Roger knows alot about
this unit and can answer most of your questions since
I'm pretty much mechanically-challenged and Brian
doesnt belong to this List anymore.  All I can tell
you is that I drive my '92 RT TT every single day and
the drivability is like stock!!

My current mods: ARC-2GP MAF kit with a HUGE 12in long
K&N, RC550s, HKS pump, 13Gs, Greddy plugs @ 0.034,
Vitek wires, forged rods and pistons, treated crank,
DSBC - 1.3 bar of boost and stock Y pipe still holds!!

George
www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Flats/8576/Intro.html

- --- Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com> wrote:
> George...
>
> Can you provide a little more detail about the ARC
> unit? It seems I saw a
> brief description some time back, but I can't locate
> it. Does it replace the
> MAS like the AFC? Direct plug in? Or? Fits all
> generations?
>
> Also, some more information on your mods as a point
> of comparison?
>
> Looking forward...Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Kuo [mailto:amkreadgto@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 1999 5:40 PM
> To: Stealth List
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Mileage question
>
>
> Hi Chris and All...
>
> Speaking of losing miles per gallon due to larger
> injectors and pump... I actually retained or even
> getting better milege with the RC 550s and HKS/Cusmo
> pump..
>
> I think its due to the ARC-2GP's awesome ability to
> control larger injestors.  With the ARM1 (A/F
> monitor), I'm (with help from Brian of GTPro) able
> to
> tune the ARC-2GP unit to run the car rich @ high
> boosts (i know, i know Roger, wasting fuel/energy~
> hehe..) and good mixture when the car idles and at
> city/hwy driving.. I havent touched the setting for
> months now.. and it runs great when im just
> crusing..
> and awesome when I need to out-run that V8!! =)
>
> Stock fuel system: 17-20 MPG
> ARC, 550s, pump: 19-21 MPG
> (a day at the track: 6-8 MPG!!)
>
> George
> check out my homepage:
> www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Flats/8576/Intro.html
> <snip>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>


=====

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:53:00 -0500
From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Turbo Question

> It hit me like a rock...14B's!?!  The first Gen DSMs use a single
> 14B turbo that on that 2.0 liter four is capable of holding
> 17-18psi easy to the line.  Cost?  Damn...I have seen those
> things going on the DSM trader for 100-200 a piece.  Will
> those things bolt to our manifold?  Seems to me they might be a
> good intermediate step.  A set of 14Bs, 550cc injectors, Supra
> fuel pump, and an AFC...could make for a nice little machine to
> play Viper tag with.  :-)

If you could find a 14B that is set up reversed for the rear bank, then you might have a shot at it.  Haven't ever seen one that's opposite of the DSM style though.  I think it'd be fairly easy to get the front one on, probably using some form of adaptor plate (or pre-cat eliminator) to the downpipe, but the rear is a whole 'nother challenge.  If you could find something that'll work, the 14B should provide enough flow to keep the boost up, but remember that it'll also be getting .5 liters less input flow than on a DSM, so it'll likely spool up later.

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:48:47 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S: Hats & Tees shipping today (Off-topic)

The shirts finally arrived from the printer, so all of you who
placed orders should have your hats and shirts in a few days.  For
those of you who still haven't placed orders, check out the Team3S
Hats & Tees page at:

www.bobforrest.com/Team3S-Hats&Tees.htm

Note:  They made the shirts even BETTER than I designed them, with
the silver grey over red now being a sparkly metallic silver over a
shiny red...  VERY cool!

Best to all,

Forrest






For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:31:00 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: ARC2-GP information (looong)

> I think Roger knows alot about this unit and can answer most of your
questions since

Ahem ... ok ... let's lift the curtain :

You guys know that I once compared the ARC2-GP and the VPC to each other as
I was not sure if the VPC/GCC was the proper solution for my car. I then had
many conversations with SplitSecond and people who runned the HKS stuff and
never came to a real conclusion.

Introduction :
As many of us are using the car as a daily driver, it was very important to
me to find a good ALL-SEASON solution. The idea getting a second 3S car and
converting one into a racing monster failed money-wise and therefore the
3000 TT should be become a real fast, Porsche/BMW/Ferrari/and
whatever-killer. Over the time of my investigation the more the answers I
got from SplitSec made more sense. This lead me to the conclusion to sell
the VPC and to get an ARC2-GP (GP is the version for our cars) to be able to
drive in a temp range from 5 - 100°F with many feets of snow or burning sun.

Installation :
A few weeks ago I got the kit form GT PRO and installed it in the car. The
hardest part was to get the wiring harnes into the pass compartment. This,
because I have sooo many wires through the holes (WI, Power for the AMP,
etc.). The instructions given are 1st class and cover BOTH 1st and 2nd gen
cars !! Even the pin layout of both generations is given and the kit comes
with all connectors needed. Well, it's always good to have some spare
connectors around as I once connected to the wrong white wire at the ECU (O2
sensor). The kit consists of the MAF that replaces the MAS, the ARC fuel
controller, the ARM-1 A/F meter and a K&N filter. I still had the Blitz SUS
filter with the VPC adapter and I machined the adapter to make it fit the
MAF. Looks and works damn good but the SUS scratched my underhood isolation
:-( This is why I got a test filter from Apexi (for free !!) that has very
good filtering and power results. Unfortunately, the outlet of the filter is
SMALLER in diameter than the MAF so I will have to see what can be done. The
outside diameter of the Apexi power filter is about 1/2" smaller and
therefore would perfectly fit. We'll see. The A/F meter is simply spliced
into one of the O2 sensor wires and works pretty good. I was very sceptical
and of course I opened it and studied the electronics. Basically it is the
same as any other 10 LED A/F meter and it uses the same components as cheap
A/F meters. But it contains additional input filters that allows quick
response with good noise reduction but also steady reading under WOT. A good
solution ... but I have to dim it down as the blue LEDs are mirroring in the
windshield at night and if the rich LED lights up it looks like a cop
switched on his lights behind me ;-) ... something shocking, haha.

Also I was disapointed at first as the MAF did not came with a barometric
nor temperature sensor in its housing. I immediatly saw the thing not
working in different ambient. Again conversation was necessary and
SplitSecond answered ALL questions. They were able to tell me how the MAF
works and the ARC is able to see temp and barometric differences for
compensating.

The wires to be spliced in or hooked up are simple as the ARC simulates the
MAS signal (1), gives a constant voltage for the temperature (2) and
barometric sensor (3) as well as TPS (4). The later is only used for the
idle setting and it's input range is from 0-0.5Volt. Day for day I tried to
setup the idle and it didn't worked ... well my TPS was at 0.66V at idle. I
turned the TPS sensor a few degrees and am getting 0.48V now, perfect for
the ARC and without any side effects.

Tuning it in :
After installation, it was not easy to find a good idle setting and it
runned a long time very rich ("smoke on the water" would be the right song)
or it just died. The ARC has four knobs where you control the behaviour of
the ARC. Again, the instructions tell you exactly what to do but the initial
settings lead me into the worng direction. This because the GP version of
the ARC has a wider range for injectors and this makes you able to run from
stock 360cc injectors up to 720cc "dumpers". Not only my car but also others
prove that it works with the stock setup very well and if you'd do it
yourself let me know and I send you my settings that work ... very good !
Tuning in the response as well upper behaviour is not that easy as our cars
are "sensible" (or is it just the ECU ?) Decreasing one setting 2% may cause
increase another 4% and so on. At this point, the datalogger was very
helpful as I tried to set a close to rich condition at WOT with stoich
condition at cruising and idle. I reached this setting and made a log. The
injectors were then only around 60-75% and a lot of knock appeared at 15psi.
Knock became lower and lower the more I increased the fuel curve until I got
the same curve as I had with the stock setup ! I then increased fuel even
more and .... runned into fuel cut. No knock, good timing but fuel cut. This
proves the theory that the ECU doesn't like heavily maxed out injectors over
a longer period.

Findings :
As said, the steps are in 2% from -20 to +20%. Sometimes, I just wished to
have a 1% step setting as with only one click the misture stayed rich and
with another it became lean. But driving around and playing with the knobs
helps and after a few days you have a good result. My runs with the
datalogger showed that with the stock injectors I was able to increase the
injectors pulsing rate more quickly than stock. This resulted in more
feelable power after shifting and in the mid band from 4000-5000. I was also
able to cure a little of my turbos lag by giving a bit more fuel. When
cruising around I've set the mixture to stoich and guess what, my fiorst
long run test showed 28mpg. A mix with a lot high boosting tests and
autobahn runs finally showed a mix of about 22-24mpg, about the same I had
before but with some more power. The knock in the datalogs show that our
cars need the rich setting at 15 psi. Any richer causes fuel cut as the
stock injectors are at their end since a long time. Therefore, more power
needs bigger injectors, but we already know this. Fortunately, with the ARC
you'll only change two settings and correct the idle for a smooth running
and you're done. I planned to do a dyno test with the stock setup to see
what restriction the stock MAS is. Also I then wanted to install a set of
440cc injectors out of the DSMs but I never got the promised package. As
time is runnign and winter is comming, I may install the 720cc in the
comming week and hey, each dyno run is about $100 :-( The combination of the
water injection with the enlarged fuel system with proper control will the
bring the turbos at their end :-)

Conclusion :
Yes, the MAF conversion works for ANY injectors on any year of our TT cars
AND the DSMs as well. The non-turbo version is in test and will be released
soon. I hope GT PRO is able to provide real dyno data then as the lag is not
a problem on the NA ;-) I can highly recommend it although the VPC/GCC with
its ability to have a custom made program may provide you the more real
track specific race car. This was not my aim and till today, the decision to
spend money for the test was ok. The weather heaviyl changed since my first
day I runned it and the car still behaves the same. Only idle msut be set a
little richer and turned back after the car heated up, otherwise the ARM is
always showing full rich. But if the lights are dimmed or the ARM installed
on another position this is not a big issue as you'll not notice this in the
mileage. And if you sit in a lot traffic, just crank it down a little. Here,
I wish to have the 1% setting but ya know ... I want to have it perfect.

Anything negative .... no, really nothing. Maybe the MAF that has no device
to the frame as it is a little shorter than the MAS (in my special filter
setup) But this is negligible for sure :)). It must prove its driveability
in real winter but this only about two/three weeks ahead. Temp is now in the
8°C region here and I have no problem so far.

My current mods ?
- - Blitz DSBC ($450)
- - Blitz DualTimer ($120)
- - ARC2-GP MAF ($990 w/filter, less without)
- - Greddy BOV ($280)
- - ERL 3D Water injection ($800)

Nothing else till today, but sooo many stuff sitting around. Car runs at
1.08kg/cm2 peak at the moment. Knock stays below any dangerous level.

Ok, that's it. I was very low on time the last weeks so I haven't set up the
installation page on my homestead, but I'll do soon. If you want to see more
details in the meantime, let me know and I can send you pics or a log before
and after. If you are interested in pricing, go to the GT PRO website and
you'll find the stuff under the fuel control menu.

Cheers,
Roger
93'3000GT TT

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:13:27 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo Question

There is one on the 3SI board that is thinking about such a project or has it
done already. The DSM turbine housing do not fit our manifolds. Therefore, what
you can do is making a hybrid turbo by using our turbine and housing together
with the 14b compressor wheel and housing. But I haven't heard anything about
the space in the rear as well as the motor mount on the front !! These are both
important issues you have to think about.

>From my own experience, the 5-speed with my 13G together have noticeable more
lag compared to the 9b in a 6 speed Stealth (Jim's car). Therefore, I think the
bigger lag of the 15G would be less noticable in the 2nd gens than in the 5
speed.
 
> remember that it'll also be getting .5 liters less input flow than on a DSM,
> so it'll likely spool up later.

Matt, can you explain this a little bit more ? I maybe missed something :)

Later
Roger
93'3000GT TT


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:49:43 -0500
From: "John P. Kaiser" <jkaiser@emed.com>
Subject: Team3S: Team 3S:  Factory Alarm.

I have a 1999 Mit. 3000GT (Base Model) and want to know if there is a way to
disconnect or disable the factory installed
alarm system.
I have been told to relay isolate the green and white wire to the rotax box
under the dash.  Is this correct? or is there another way?



John
1999 3000GT

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:13:39 -0500
From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Turbo Question

> > remember that it'll also be getting .5 liters less input
> > flow than on a DSM, so it'll likely spool up later.

> Matt, can you explain this a little bit more ? I maybe missed
> something :)

I was commenting that on a DSM application the 14B gets flow from 2.0 liters of displacement in the cylinders and on a 3/S car it would get 1.5 liters of "basic" flow.  At high RPM on my DSM with a heavily ported 14B I ran 19 psi, which started falling to about 17 psi at 7500 rpm.  Assuming the same boost level, the exhaust input into the turbo will be 25% less on a 3/S car since there are 3 cylinders feeding 1.5L of air into the turbo (not taking into account a higher flow once boost builds up).  At lower RPM's, before boost comes on this might be a factor - making the 14B spool up at a higher RPM than you might expect.

Not something I know for a fact, but just an observation...

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 17:16:39 -0500
From: Del A Kolasinski <pearlvr42c@juno.com>
Subject: Team3S: Heavily modded VR4 for sale

I absolutely hate to have to do this but I am pretty much done with my
sports car hobby. So here it goes, all modifications performed by Jack
Tertadian and I.
Glacier White Pearl 1991 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4
90,505 miles, NEWLY PUT IN UPGRADED '93 spec. Transmission, Transfer
Case, and Output Shaft. (Aug.'99)   from Kormax
Concept Neeper Synchro Chrome 18x8.5" Rims(Oct.'98)
Sumitomo HTRZII 265/35ZR18 Tires(Apr.'99)
Magnecor KV85 Ignition Wires(Mar.'99)
K&N Cone Air Filter with Custom 3" M.A.S. PVC Bypass Tube(Mar.'99)
K&N Breather Filter (to keep the intercoolers clean)
Alamo Motorsports Y-Pipe(May'99)
1G DSM Blow Off Valve Kit(May'99)
ATR 3" Stainless Downpipe(Aug.'99)
Custom 3" Dual Cat-Back Exhaust System with Dual 4" Thermal R&D
Tips(Apr.'99)
T.E.C. TDO4-15G Turbochargers(always turbo timed-less than 2,500
miles)(Sept.'99)
HKS EVC4 Electronic Boost Controller(Oct.'98)
HKS Turbo Timer 4(Oct.'98)
SPI Motorsport 30-0-30psi Boost Guage in A-Pillar Mounting Pod(Oct.'99)
R.C. Engineering 550cc Fuel Injectors(Sept.'99)
Denso MK-IV In Tank Fuel Pump Upgrade(Sept.'99)
HKS V.P.C. Vein Pressure Converter Fuel Computer with 550 chip(Sept.'99)
HKS G.C.C. II Piggyback Fuel Computer(Sept.'99)
Jumptronix 02 Voltage Meter(Sept.'99)
Broward 6-Puck Ceramic Clutch Disk(Sept.'99)
RPS Heavy Duty Pressure Plate(Sept.'99)
New Flywheel(installed with new clutch in Sept.)
Tenzo 400 Series Hyper White Foglights
- - - - - - - - - - - I have owned the car for about a year and 3 months, I
stuck WAY too much money into it in that short of a time, and now must
face the facts of bills everywhere.
All stock parts will be included as will all manuals and an extra RPS
Turbo clutch that has a bad but rebuildable pressure plate.  Car always
uses Mobil 1 Synthetic and Redline oils and fluids.  And like I said
earlier all work was done with the expert and flawless effort of Jack
Tertadian.
My goal is to break even, just to pay off bills and loans which all
relate to this car, so with a hesitent hand I type this.
Car goes for $15,250 or the any reasonable offer.  Pictures can be seen
at wisc.dsm.org under my name, (only lists old modifications on that web
page)
Del Kolasinski -southeastern Wisconsin-
Phone 782-2410  Cell 807-3676
email- pearlvr42c@juno.com

___________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 15:33:08 -0700
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Update:  Still NO BOOST!!!!!!

Ahmed...

Nope, I was blowing smoke at all times. It started lightly, but got
SIGNIFICANTLY worse within a hundred miles. By the time I drove it to the
shop, there was a cloud following me. Very ugly, very embarrassing. I did,
however, still have boost.

I hate to say it, but I think the conjecture of rings or piston is likely.
Not a pleasant thought, but check that compression.

Best wishes...Chris

- -----Original Message-----
From: TurboDrvn@aol.com [mailto:TurboDrvn@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 7:49 AM
To: cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com
Cc: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Update: Still NO BOOST!!!!!!


In a message dated 10/15/99 9:43:59 AM Central Daylight Time,
cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com writes:

<< Ahmed...
 
 Are you blowing oil out the exhaust? That was my symptom when I spun the
 bearings on my first set of 15Gs.
 
 Looking forward...Chris >>

Hey Chris,

    Yes I am blowing oil out of the exhaust; I referred to that on my
previous posts thinking they were worn valve seals........but maybe not??? 
the oil smoke only occurs when I decelerate and sometimes at stop
signs.....I
have NO oil (smoke) coming out of my exhaust when I accelerate and the RPM's

increase.......I'm thinking turbo seals or piston?????   NEED to do a
compression test soon!

Chris, when you spun the bearings on your 15G's..what type of frequency of
smoke did you have out of your exhaust???

I'll keep everyone posted,

Ahmed.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:42:16 -0500
From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Update:  Still NO BOOST!!!!!!  (An Aside Re: Bearings)

> Are you blowing oil out the exhaust? That was my symptom when I spun the
> bearings on my first set of 15Gs.
All-
I a not knowledgable about the bearings used in turbos. Do most
use journal bearings like the crank and rods; fed with ordinary oil
pressures of 10 to 50 psi or so?  Because their speeds are so
high (and loads), I assumed (incorrectly, I guess), that they
were all ball bearings. 
You might know that the Space Shuttle Main Engine Turbo Pumps for
the fuel and oxidizer (LH2 and LOX) are, or have already converted
to ceramic ball bearings versus 440C stainless. 
What are the advantages of ball bearing turbochargers?
Regards,
ptg

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:50:34 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Update:  Still NO BOOST!!!!!!

> >  I think your problem is definitely the seals and bearings
> > since that is the only way you will get oil in your BOV.
> > Worn piston rings will cause you to burn oil.  The oil will
> > never get to your BOV (in fact, it has no way of getting
> > there from the cylinders unless your valve seats are
> > extremely worn in which your car would never run because of
> > lack of compression).  Plus, your symptoms are lack of boost
> > and not lack of compression.  So I'd start with the turbos.
> > I think you have a condition known as "blow by" where your
> > turbo seals are gone and the oil is "blowing by" them.  Just
> > my 2 cents.

No, this is not right and Matt exactly pointed out why. I highly recommend
the compression test as this is how my problem started. But I always had
boost although not that much as before and a big loss the higehr the rpm
was. My BOV and the Blitz solenoids, everything was soacked with oil and
till today some oil still sits in the intercoolers.

If there is low compression, the pressure built up by the turbos can go
elsewhere. I your point it sounds like a problem on every cylinder but this
is very uncommon. I had a 2 broken pistons and at least one ring broke on
any of the six. But hey, no boost would mean at least a hole in two pistons
and this woudl be pretty noticeable even at idle. Even more, opening the oil
cap you should be able to smell the gas in the oil then.

Man, I have no idea what's going on in your car, damn strange. Start with
the comrpession test and a leak down test to find out where the problem
coudl be if the compression is below 120psi.

Good luck,
Roger
93'3000GT TT

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Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:55:24 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 120K service, problems

> Sounds like the exhaust cam is off a tooth, and maybe the intake cam as
well.

Very good answer from Matt and I just like to second his words ! I'd
immediatly check the alignement by yourself with the manual it's pretty easy
to find out if the stuff is aligned properly. I doubt that they are off more
than one or even two teeths as anythign else would have caused damage :-/
Also check if the belt is sitting well and the tensioner does it's work.
Just don't rev it up hard or above anything than 3500 until the problem is
solved.

Roger
93'3000GT TT


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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:00:58 -0600
From: "Palamara, Peter" <pala@gwl.com>
Subject: Team3S: FW: greddy turbo setup :)

> Well I'm not sure if I made this known to the public but will now. I
> purchased the greddy turbo setup for our cars from Mike at Altered
> Atmosphere. First I have to put a word out for Mike, he did an excellent
> job of letting me know were the parts were and shipped them out promptly
> when he did get them and he was very fair on price! Thanx Mike!
> Now onto the turbos. The kit basically replaces the whole existing setup
> but the fun part is you have to fabricate about 50% the rest of it. It
> came with the stainless headers and TD-05 16g turbos which flow 505 cfm
> per turbo compare that with the 410 cfm from the td04 15g's. Now this
> setup aint cheap it set me back a few bucks but the craftsman ship on the
> headers are unlike anything I have seen! They are actually really pretty
> :) heehheh And the welds and thickness of the stainless steel they used
> was way beyond the usual! So the price is well worth it. Now this setup is
> an external wastegate setup and today I found out I can use TIAL
> wastegates instead of the greddy type-R's so that will save me around $600
> :)
> Now the disappointment and setback already :(
> We got the engine pulled yesterday and decided to play with the turbos by
> just fake mounting them by loosely putting a couple bolts on the studs and
> hanging them there. Well to our amaisment they have the intake track for
> these opposite of what the td04 were :( So that is challenge number one
> already :(
> Now we knew ahead of time greddy stated that there may not be much room in
> the back for the turbo and may have to bang in the firewall. Well with the
> test fit we measured and we have to bang in the fire wall around 2 1/2 to
> 3 inches in were the turbo will sit in the back :(
> The plus so far is that they are only oil fed turbos so no routing of
> coolant lines are necessary :)
> What we may end up doing is cutting off the mounting flanges for both
> manifolds and repositioning the flange so that the air intake is back in
> line. What amazed us is that the stock intake piping fits right on the
> intake track of the turbo. Well that's about all I want to write but all I
> have to really say is if you got the money and time this will be an
> excellent project! It sure will be for me! Visit my web page below for
> upcoming pictures of the setup and tear down of the motor. Cant wait till
> spring :)
>
> 92 3000 GTO S.C.
> Soon to be exactly what the plates say :)
> Plates (HIPRESR)
> 1-800-888-gwla x4733
> http://members.xoom.com/palamarap
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:13:17 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S: HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO US!!!

Congratulations, everyone!

Yes, it's been a year since the seven of us "Admins" decided to
form Team3S.  We wanted a mailing list devoted to technical issues,
for folks who are busy with the rigors of life, who don't have time
for the chat and flames and the 'fluff' of other lists.  An idea
exchange for ladies and gents, if you will...  Thanks to all of you
who have joined us, for making Team3S a success.

It's because of the type of folks we have here..., all of you, that
Team3S is a forum of quality and substance.  We've had almost 500
people from dozens of countries sign on since our 7-man beginnings,
many of whom have helped the entire group with their selfless
efforts.  That includes everything from setting up the web pages and
offering webspace, to actually going after problem vendors and even
organizing group purchases.  Many of us share information about our
Stealth or 3000GT with the world with our own websites, and offer
help and suggestions via the list itself.  And quite a few of us
have actually met in regional gatherings, just enjoying a drive, and
our marvelous cars, and life, and cementing the friendships we've
made on the internet.

We have lots of plans for our second year, with reference pages and
a searchable FAQ going on the web shortly.  We'll all reap the
benefits of having some of the priceless technical information that
has been covered in our emails, once it's published on a central
site.  Our pages and our list will continue to be free, and
available to both members and anyone else who happens to find us
while websurfing...

The Admins would also like to pat ourselves on the back for handling
the logistics of keeping the Team3S list running smoothly so we all
may enjoy it...  But the main thanks is to all of you who have made
it as wonderful as we dreamed it could be, way back when...

A toast...  to the 3000GT and the Stealth, and to Team3S!


Warmest regards, and safe driving to all...

The Team3S Admins:
BOB Forrest, San Francisco, CA, USA  Team3S@bobforrest.com
CHRIS Winkley, Portland, OR, USA  cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com
DARCY Gunnlaugson, Victoria, B.C., CANADA  wce@bc.sympatico.ca
JIM Matthews, Wiesbaden, GERMANY  matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de
MIKAEL Akesson, Stockholm, SWEDEN  vr4@bahnhof.se
RICH LeRoy, Ridgefield, WA, USA  rleroy@pacifier.com
ROGER Gerl, Zurich, SWITZERLAND  robby@swissonline.ch





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End of Team3S Digest V1 #309
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