--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #297
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest        Saturday, October 2 1999        Volume 01 : Number 297




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 07:38 -0500
From: Jeff A Williamson <Jeff.A.Williamson@jci.com>
Subject: Team3S: re: am noise/rattle in a 92 3000VR4

I've had the same or similar sound on my VR4 for about 3 years. It started at
around 70K miles. It is very similar to the sound that a clutch-release bearing
makes when it goes bad. Mine only does this on cold mornings( below 40
degress). After warm-up the noise quits. It also quits if the clutch pedal is
depressed, and starts again when the pedeal is released,  which is what lead me
to think it was the release bearing. Last December, I replaced the bearing, but
on cold mornings, I still hear the noise. So I don't have a clue ! From what I
can tell, it doesn't seem to be hurting anything, and it's not getting any
worse (or louder).

Jeff Williamson
Belleville, MI
'92 VR4

Original Message:

>My car is a '92 3000 VR4 with 58K miles on it. The car is in excellent
>condition, with no problems other than the typical notchy shifter and some
>slight ticking at startup. When I listen closely when I start the car up
>after it has sat overnight, I can hear a faint rattling sound. When I
>popped the hood I could still hear the sound like it was comming from the
>middle of the car nearest the winshield, perhaps under the engine. The
>noise does not increase with engine rpm and disappears after the car has
>warmed up after a minute or so. The engine makes good power and runs
>smoothly. the only mod to the car is an HKS manual boost controller which
>is set at about 13.5psi (I think 9 is the stock setting). The timing belt
>and waterpump were replaced 1K miles ago. The sound only occurs in the am
>after the car has sat all night. When I restart the car during the day the
>sound does not manifest, even if the car has been sitting for 5-6 hrs.



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:27:39 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Team3S: Problem from an SL owner in Canada (he really needs help)

Friends,

I got a help call from an SL owner living in Canada. Please see the mail
attached to this post as well as my answer. Maybe some of you do have
another idea and, especially, may be able to help him in the same "time"
area.

Thanks,
Roger

- -------------------------
Original Message from Dave Bette bette@xcelco.on.ca

Roger I know your expertise is the twin turbo but I am a desperate man my
91gt sl died, well sort of. It started loseing power and then became very
noisy. I got home but my friend who is a mechanic listened to it and
suggested towing it to the shop he works at. It will start fine but idles
very poorly and when you rev it you get a very unhealthy sound from the
lower valve train. I am from Canada and the mechanic I have has very little
experience with these cars. He does not want to start replacing valves on a
hunch but is unsure where to start nothing showed up on the scope. He now
has the front valve cover off and the plenum as well so he can’t start
it. He says that when it was running it was pouring the gas to it you could
actually smell it so this was causing it to run lean. But his real concern
is with the noise as is mine. If you have any suggestions I would be very
greatful. I take extreemly good care of this car and am continually
frustrated with how often it is down. This may be the last straw once again
any info please if you send info could you send it to this adress as well
as the one from witch this note originates from

- ----------------------
My answer :

Hi Dave,

I followed your problem and I hope it is not that bad as I suppose it is.
These are my advises :
- - let your mechanic check the compression on every cylinder. As the plenum
is off this can be done easy (I always do this myselfs). The readings must
be over 120psi on all chambers. If they are not you have a serious problem
either with the valves or the pistons.
- - Let him do the spark firing check. If only one plug is bad, the engine my
sound crazy.
- - Let him check all motor rubber mounts. One may be broken and can causes
the strange sound.
- - if compression was ok and the rest too (i.e. no problem found yet) put
the plenum back (covers too) and start it. Stop it and unplug the MAS
connector. Start it again and check if it runns weaker now. If the behaviour
doesn't
change, the MAS is at least one problem. This can easier be checked with a
code scanner of course.

Also when fuel is poured in this cause a ultra-rich and not a lean
condition. How do the plugs look like ?

Questions :
- - how was the oil pressure reading when the problem started ?
- - did the "Service Engine" light came up ?
- - how was the water temperature reading ?
- - does your friend have access to a code scanner ?
- - did the sound change when you pressed the clutch or being in neutral ?
- - any blue, black or white smoke when idleing ?

Other suggestions :
- - Let him check the ignition parts. I do not know the SL in this case but
if only 3 cyls are firing the car doesn't sound nice.
- - Unhook the battery to reset the battery (I don't believe that this is a
problem)

David, if none of these things helps, I must assume that a crankshaft
bearing is shot or even more a rod or the crankshaft broke.

Good luck,
Roger

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:45:07 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Problem from an SL owner in Canada (he really needs help)

Argh, forgot to say, that mis mechanic already checked the timing belt and
it is ok. It was my first suggestion and even if the belt and timing looks
good a compression check will show any damage to the valve train too.

Later
Roger,
93'3000GT TT


>Roger I know your expertise is the twin turbo but I am a desperate man my
>91gt sl died, well sort of. It started loseing power and then became very
>noisy. I got home but my friend who is a mechanic listened to it and
>suggested towing it to the shop he works at. It will start fine but idles
>very poorly and when you rev it you get a very unhealthy sound from the
>lower valve train. I am from Canada and the mechanic I have has very little
>experience with these cars. He does not want to start replacing valves on a
<snip>

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 08:58:22 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Problem from an SL owner in Canada (he really needs help)

This really sounds like a rod bearing or main bearing has spun.   I'd
suspect lower end noise rather than valve train noise.

The noise he is hearing is probably the piston hitting the head when it
comes up in the cylinder.


Brad
Check out my home page:  http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
 E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#  3612682

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of R.G.
Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 8:45 AM
To: R.G.; Stealth - Team 3S
Subject: Re: Team3S: Problem from an SL owner in Canada (he really needs
help)

Argh, forgot to say, that mis mechanic already checked the timing belt and
it is ok. It was my first suggestion and even if the belt and timing looks
good a compression check will show any damage to the valve train too.

Later
Roger,
93'3000GT TT


>Roger I know your expertise is the twin turbo but I am a desperate man my
>91gt sl died, well sort of. It started loseing power and then became very
>noisy. I got home but my friend who is a mechanic listened to it and
>suggested towing it to the shop he works at. It will start fine but idles
>very poorly and when you rev it you get a very unhealthy sound from the
>lower valve train. I am from Canada and the mechanic I have has very little
>experience with these cars. He does not want to start replacing valves on a
<snip>

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http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:28:40 -0400
From: "Wallis, Gavin" <WallisG@MWAA.com>
Subject: Team3S: FAQ Update

It's alive...that's about all the time I have to say :).

Gavin

New Additions:

Stereo section
Maintenance section
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 14:43:18 -0700
From: "Todd Schmalzried" <Q11981@email.mot.com>
Subject: Team3S: motor removal

Hello All,
I am finally getting around to pulling the motor out of my RT/TT.
The book says I need to drop the transaxle. Is this right? Can I get it
out without having to go through all that extra work? I would appreciate
a reply from anyone who has taken their motor out.
Thanks
Todd
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 23:55:41 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: motor removal

> I am finally getting around to pulling the motor out of my RT/TT.
> The book says I need to drop the transaxle. Is this right?

You mean to get it out from under the car or what ? Fact is, that the engine
can be overhauled in the bay. When the transaxle is out of the way, the oil
pan can be removed and you'll gain access to just everything from below and
the top. The motor mounts must also be removed as the engine must be angeled
out a little. This way the pistons have been changed on my car and this
reduced work a lot.

Roger,
93'3000GT TT



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:59:10 -0500
From: "Landis, Michael" <MLandis@casham.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: motor removal

Well, I can't speak for the TT cars, but I pulled my SL engine this summer
without removing the transaxle.

However, I wouldn't recommend it.  It was a lot more work than it was worth,
and before it was all over with I still ended up pulling both axels out and
unbolting the transaxle and shoving it as far up against the passenger inner
fender as I could.  Still ended up crunching the main crankshaft pulley
($125 - used! - to replace) and endangering the brake master cylinder.
Getting it back in was almost as hairy.  In the end, this "time-saving
omission" probably cost me a couple of hours of EXTRA time.

If I had it to do over again, I'd just go ahead and get the transaxle out of
the way to start with and save myself a lot of grief - and money.  Wish I'd
read the manual more closely the first time...

Good Luck!

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Todd Schmalzried [SMTP:Q11981@email.mot.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 4:43 PM
> To: stealth
> Subject: Team3S: motor removal
>
> Hello All,
> I am finally getting around to pulling the motor out of my RT/TT.
> The book says I need to drop the transaxle. Is this right? Can I get it
> out without having to go through all that extra work? I would appreciate
> a reply from anyone who has taken their motor out.
> Thanks
> Todd
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 00:05:26 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Team3S: Stealth Convertible !

I guess the most of you already saw this but maybe you missed the link :

http://members.home.com/jvan/Straman_mag1.htm

I'd immediatly sell my Z28 Convertible for it !!!

Roger
93'3000GT TT

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 18:53:48 EDT
From: TrboDrvr@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: motor removal

I haven't removed my motor, but I have had my tranny out three times on my 91
Stealth TT.  And it is VERY heavy.  I'd recommend removing it for that reason
alone because the weight of the engine certainly will be better balanced with
the tranny off.  It's worth the extra work to make sure there are no
accidents, like a tranny through your windshield!

Joe 91 TT
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 18:11:54 -0500
From: Matt Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Stealth Convertible !

> I guess the most of you already saw this but maybe you missed
> the link :
> http://members.home.com/jvan/Straman_mag1.htm
> I'd immediately sell my Z28 Convertible for it !!!

Hmm, I think I prefer my Spyder...  If the conversion is really only $14,000 though, that's a pretty good deal (considering originally the Spyder conversion was $20,000).  If you wouldn't miss the hardtop, then this guy's conversion is the way to go.

The painted gauge bezel the guy did is pretty sweet though.  Something I would consider since I need to pull my gauge panel out to polish some scratches out of it anyway.  :-)

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 18:42:48 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: motor removal

If the engine block needs no machining, I really like Roger's suggestion.
Makes a lot of sense.

However, the engine and transaxle assembly came out of my '94 VR4 quite
easily.  I removed the hood for plenty of overhead room.  Having done the
transaxle by itself previously, I feel this method saved quite a bit of
time.  I put it in this way too.  I didn't even remove the plenum.  Worked
great.  Once everything was disconnected that had to be disconnected anyway,
the engine came right out.  Putting it in with the transaxle in place was
tricky because it has to be put in at an angle and dropped onto/into the
respective mounting points in a particular order.

All in all it went very well, and in less time than just putting the
transmission in from beneath the car.  Mating the transaxle onto the engine
and aligning the clutch was trivial with the engine sitting right in front
of you.  Inserting the half shafts is easy and a step that is included no
matter which method one chooses.

You do have to plan ahead and see what is in the way but it saved me a lot
of effort.


Barry

> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 2:59 PM
> To: Todd Schmalzried; stealth
> Subject: RE: Team3S: motor removal
>
>
> Well, I can't speak for the TT cars, but I pulled my SL engine this summer
> without removing the transaxle.
>
> However, I wouldn't recommend it.  It was a lot more work than it
> was worth,
> and before it was all over with I still ended up pulling both
> axels out and
> unbolting the transaxle and shoving it as far up against the
> passenger inner
> fender as I could.  Still ended up crunching the main crankshaft pulley
> ($125 - used! - to replace) and endangering the brake master cylinder.
> Getting it back in was almost as hairy.  In the end, this "time-saving
> omission" probably cost me a couple of hours of EXTRA time.
>
> If I had it to do over again, I'd just go ahead and get the
> transaxle out of
> the way to start with and save myself a lot of grief - and money.
>  Wish I'd
> read the manual more closely the first time...
>
> Good Luck!
>
> Michael

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 04:33:31 -0500
From: "Jeff" <spydervr4@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: Need Help with Tire Sizes

I know OE tires on most cars (VR4s) are 245/45R17 or 245/40R18, depending on
wheel size.  I also know that I used to have a '93 VR4 that had 275/40R17s
on it and they fit fine.  I currently have 245/45R17's on my Spyder.  I'm
looking at some new wheels and will be getting 18's.  I can get 245/40R18's
which will only be 1mm shorter in total height from what I have now or I can
get 275/35R18's which don't really cost much more (for certain brands) and
be 4mm taller than what I have now.  Either way I don't really care because
it's "close enough" to keep my speedometer in the ballpark.

What I'm wondering is, does anyone know if 275/35R18's will rub?  275/40R17s
(which I had on my old '93 VR4) didn't rub and are 1mm taller than my
current 245/45R17s.  Will the extra 3mm kill me?  Did anything change in the
'94+ cars or Spyders that might make the extra 30mm of width too wide?

jeff
'95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
'90 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX



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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 10:15:03 EDT
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: EGT maximum limits - Agree/disagree

* EGT Temp Probe located in Rear Exhaust Manifold, prior to the turbo.
Add 150F degrees if probe is after the turbo. 250F if probe in
downpipe/collector.

Celsius to Fahrenheit conversion formula is as follows:
Multiply Celsius degrees by 9 and divide by 5, then add 32.

Stock motor & pistons
Celsius = Fahrenheit
 950     =  1742  PISTON MELT DOWN EMINENT ! (short 1-2 sec bursts)
 925     =  1700  Getting damn close
 900     =  1652  About the maximum limit - unless racing
 875     =  1607  or less No problems...

I'd consider anything over 875c degrees deadly for sustained highway speed.

These are the numbers I've been using. Any more current information available?

Thanks
Arty 91 VR-4

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------------------------------

End of Team3S Digest V1 #297
****************************

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