--
From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #284
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To:
owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence:
bulk
Team3S Digest Wednesday, September
15 1999 Volume 01 : Number
284
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:38:55 -0500
From: "Jeff" <spydervr4@home.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: FYI: Dash Gauges
Actually from what I've seen the stock gauge is
pretty accurate up to 6 or
7psi, but slow reacting as Roger said. I
don't believe the Euro/Japanese
spec gauge will be at all helpful. It
would have if the water temp/oil
pressure gauges were combined into one
though. For an aftermarket
alternative see www.westach.com.
jeff
'95 Mitsubishi
Spyder VR-4
'90 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: Todd Schmalzried <Q11981@email.mot.com>
To: <robby@swissonline.ch>; Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent:
Tuesday, September 14, 1999 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: FYI: Dash
Gauges
> Not to question you personally, but...
> If our
gauges are all very inaccurate how can yours actually be fairly
>
close?
> Does it use different inputs, different scale???
>
Inquiring minds want to know.
>
> "R.G." wrote:
> >
>
> The accuracy of the gauge is good although it is slow in reaction.
>
>
> > Roger
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:20:45 -0700
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
Team3S: FW: My car is making noises
Folks...
I received this
e-mail, not sure if this person is a Team 3S subscriber or
not. At any rate,
I can't answer this question, so if any of you could offer
a
opinion/suggestion, the address is below.
Looking
forward...Chris
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jime Palacios [mailto:jimejams@home.com]
Sent: Friday,
September 10, 1999 3:21 PM
To: cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com
Cc: jimejams@home.com
Subject: My car is
making noises
Hi Chris,
My name is Jime. I own a 92 Dodge Stealth.
It has 90,000 miles on
it,
but these are the things I've already replaced
within the last year and
a half: the internal rear axle, and relating misc.
parts, the timing
belt, tensioner, water pump, battery, full valve job, and
the clutch. I
think there may be more, I'm not positive. All I know is it
costs a
fortune every time it breaks down. SO...I'm praying you can help save
me
a bit by chance. The noise is coming either from the clutch belt
pulley
or from under the DOHC cover. It sounds like something is
rubbing
against a metal part. It is loud, continuous, and sounds
dangerous
enough that I won't drive it, even to my local dealer. A mechanic
down
the street looked at it and said I need a $900 air compressor.
However,
the Air compressor light that should indicate this problem isn't on
or
blinking and my AC works almost TOO well, It freezes me out. HELP!
Could
you possibly know of anything else it could be?
Totally
Lost,
Ms. Jime Palacios
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:48:02 CDT
From: "Curt Gendron" <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: FYI: Dash Gauges
The best solution is to just replace the
three middle gauges with real
gauges, like Autometer. But the hard
part comes because the whole dash has
to come off to do it. Check out
Oskar's middle gauges in this picture:
http://mn3s.org/april99/osk_inside.jpg
By
the way, I can never get my stock boost gauge to read the same as my
Autometer boost gauge. The stock gauge is strictly for decoration.
;)
later,
Curt
http://www.mn3s.org
>From: "Jeff"
<spydervr4@home.com>
>To:
"Sirius" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
>Subject:
Re: Team3S: FYI: Dash Gauges
>Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:38:55
-0500
>
>Actually from what I've seen the stock gauge is pretty
accurate up to 6 or
>7psi, but slow reacting as Roger said. I don't
believe the Euro/Japanese
>spec gauge will be at all helpful. It
would have if the water temp/oil
>pressure gauges were combined into one
though. For an aftermarket
>alternative see www.westach.com.
>
>jeff
>'95
Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
>'90 Mitsubishi Eclipse
GSX
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Todd
Schmalzried <Q11981@email.mot.com>
>To:
<robby@swissonline.ch>; Team3S
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
>Sent:
Tuesday, September 14, 1999 12:19 PM
>Subject: Re: Team3S: FYI: Dash
Gauges
>
>
> > Not to question you personally,
but...
> > If our gauges are all very inaccurate how can yours actually
be fairly
> > close?
> > Does it use different inputs,
different scale???
> > Inquiring minds want to know.
>
>
> > "R.G." wrote:
> > >
> > > The accuracy
of the gauge is good although it is slow in reaction.
> > >
>
> > Roger
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:48:00 -0500
From: Gabriel Estrada <typhoonzz@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Team3S: WaterPump and Timing Chain
I am going to put my VR-4 in our shop
tomorrow and they are going to replace
the water pump. At least I
assume that is what is spitting coolant from
under the hood. That will
be covered by my extended warranty. My question
is, how difficult is it
to change the timing belt while the water pump is
out. I do not have
service manuals, so I don't know where the two are in
relationship to each
other. My plan is to give the mechanic a bill to
replace the timing
chain while he is under there. But I need to know how
much work is
involved in this type of work. Anyone that has done this
before please
let me know. I figure since the chain is only $130 and maybe
another
$100 for the mechanic, I assume this is a fair price to replace the
chain,
but I want to know b4 hand how much extra work is involved.
Thanks in
advance
Gabe Estrada
94 Pearl Yellow VR-4
92 GMC Typhoon
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:50:42 -0400
From: William Lynn Larsen <wlarsen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Question -- noise when turning off engine
Bob, yes you definately have
the sound down. When I mentioned the
noise, I was not complaining about
it just wanted to make sure it was
"normal." I would not go back to the
stock airbox for anything! I do
apologize for any confusion that I may
have caused for those who are
trying to diagnose exactly what is causing the
"goose honk" in the twin
turbo cars. But, getting it out that the noise
I described is a nominal
condition for the normally aspirated cars with
aftermarket intakes that
allow you to hear more engine sounds is definately
of value.
Regards,
Lynn
"Gross, Erik" wrote:
>
>
> But the sound of the K&N on an NT is definitely different than
with
> > the stock airbox. I'd characterize it in two
parts:
> <snip>
> > and a similarly subtle sound when
turning the car off, like
> > "ahhh-hisssss"...
>
> Yep,
ditto here. I only notice it when I have the windows down and the
>
radio off when I kill the ignition. I can hear it much better in my
garage
> (1-car), where there are lots of smooth surfaces for the sound to
bounce off
> of.
> <snip>
> --Erik
> For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:11:37 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: WaterPump and Timing Chain
Actually you have to remove the
belt to remove the Waterpump.
It is a belt on your car, not a
chain.
The belt retails for around 150.00. and another 100.00 is more than
fair to
replace the belt. I would look into changing the tensioners
also.
Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On
Behalf Of Gabriel Estrada
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 2:48 PM
To:
Team3S
Subject: Team3S: WaterPump and Timing Chain
I am going to put
my VR-4 in our shop tomorrow and they are going to replace
the water
pump. At least I assume that is what is spitting coolant from
under the
hood. That will be covered by my extended warranty. My
question
is, how difficult is it to change the timing belt while the water
pump is
out. I do not have service manuals, so I don't know where the
two are in
relationship to each other. My plan is to give the mechanic
a bill to
replace the timing chain while he is under there. But I need
to know how
much work is involved in this type of work. Anyone that has
done this
before please let me know. I figure since the chain is only
$130 and maybe
another $100 for the mechanic, I assume this is a fair price
to replace the
chain, but I want to know b4 hand how much extra work is
involved.
Thanks in advance
Gabe Estrada
94 Pearl Yellow VR-4
92 GMC
Typhoon
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:23:43 -0800
From: Rich <rleroy@pacifier.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: WaterPump and Timing Chain
Gabriel:
As Brad points out,
the belt *must* be removed to get
to the water pump, so giving the mechanic
$100 to
swap them out is overpaying ... better to use a part
of that $100
you were going to spend and pop for the
belt tensioner and give both parts to
the mechanic
before he (she?) starts. There is *ZERO* extra
work
involved for the belt, and *maybe* (and I'm being
generous here) 5
minutes to swap a new tensioner for
the old one - just a couple
bolts.
Hope this helps.
Rich
Did his own 60k, but not as
experienced as Brad ;-)
-
----------------------------------------------------
Brad Bedell
wrote:
>
> Actually you have to remove the belt to remove the
Waterpump.
>
> It is a belt on your car, not a chain.
> The
belt retails for around 150.00. and another 100.00 is more than fair to
>
replace the belt. I would look into changing the tensioners also.
>
> Brad
> Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
>
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com
ICQ# 3612682
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On
Behalf Of Gabriel Estrada
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 2:48
PM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: Team3S: WaterPump and Timing
Chain
>
> I am going to put my VR-4 in our shop tomorrow and they
are going to replace
> the water pump. At least I assume that is
what is spitting coolant from
> under the hood. That will be covered
by my extended warranty. My question
> is, how difficult is it to
change the timing belt while the water pump is
> out. I do not have
service manuals, so I don't know where the two are in
> relationship to
each other. My plan is to give the mechanic a bill to
> replace the
timing chain while he is under there. But I need to know how
> much
work is involved in this type of work. Anyone that has done this
>
before please let me know. I figure since the chain is only $130 and
maybe
> another $100 for the mechanic, I assume this is a fair price to
replace the
> chain, but I want to know b4 hand how much extra work is
involved.
> Thanks in advance
> Gabe Estrada
> 94 Pearl Yellow
VR-4
> 92 GMC Typhoon
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
-
--
"If you dig it, do it.
If you really dig it, do it twice"
-
Jim Croce (1943-1973)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:43:34 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S: My
car is making noises
- -----Original Message-----From: Chris
Winkley
<cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
>I
received this e-mail, not sure if this person is a Team 3S
subscriber
or
>not. At any rate, I can't answer this question, so if any of
you
could offer
>a opinion/suggestion, the address is
below.
>From: Jime Palacios [mailto:jimejams@home.com]
>Subject: My
car is making noises
Yes indeed, Ms. Palacios is a (fairly new)
subscriber... Perhaps
our instructions were not clear enough...
So if any of you are not
sure what to do-- To ask a question of the Team3S
list (all of us),
please send email to:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Or
to respond to her question, please click "Reply to All" (and edit
out all
this stuff above). Jime Palacios' full message is
below:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hi
Chris,
My name is Jime. I own a 92 Dodge Stealth. It has 90,000 miles
on
it,
but these are the things I've already replaced within the last
year
and
a half: the internal rear axle, and relating misc. parts, the
timing
belt, tensioner, water pump, battery, full valve job, and
the
clutch. I
think there may be more, I'm not positive. All I know is it
costs a
fortune every time it breaks down. SO...I'm praying you can
help
save me
a bit by chance. The noise is coming either from the clutch
belt
pulley
or from under the DOHC cover. It sounds like something is
rubbing
against a metal part. It is loud, continuous, and sounds
dangerous
enough that I won't drive it, even to my local dealer. A
mechanic
down
the street looked at it and said I need a $900 air
compressor.
However,
the Air compressor light that should indicate this
problem isn't on
or
blinking and my AC works almost TOO well, It freezes
me out. HELP!
Could
you possibly know of anything else it could
be?
Totally Lost,
Ms. Jime Palacios
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:09:25 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: WaterPump and Timing Chain
At 02:48 PM 9/14/99 -0500, you
wrote:
>I am going to put my VR-4 in our shop tomorrow and they are going
to replace
>the water pump. At least I assume that is what is
spitting coolant from
>under the hood. That will be covered by my
extended warranty. My question
>is, how difficult is it to change
the timing belt while the water pump is
>out.
As I
understand it, you have to remove the timing belt to get to the water
pump,
so it should not cost anything more. When my water pump started
spitting, it
was covered under my warranty, like yours.
I suggested to the
Mitsu dealer that since the timing belt had been exposed
to coolant, it
should also be replaced under the warranty because coolant
causes the belt to
degrade. They agreed and did the whole job, including
replacing the tension
adjusters. Total price was $720, but it only cost me
$100 under my
warranty.
So I suggest you DEMAND (nicely, of course) that they replace
the timing
belt under warranty.
I'm sure you'll hear similar advice from
others on the list.
Rich/old poop/94 VR4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:22:59 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: WaterPump and Timing Chain
I'll disagree on the "extra
work"
You can replace the timing belt without removing the motor mount
and
removing the alternator. (30mins) However an antifreeze soaked belt
is
asking for new valves and heads. Have the belt replaced no matter
what the
cost.
Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On
Behalf Of Rich
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 3:24 PM
To: Brad
Bedell
Cc: Gabriel Estrada; Team3S
Subject: Re: Team3S: WaterPump and
Timing Chain
Gabriel:
As Brad points out, the belt *must* be
removed to get
to the water pump, so giving the mechanic $100 to
swap them
out is overpaying ... better to use a part
of that $100 you were going to
spend and pop for the
belt tensioner and give both parts to the
mechanic
before he (she?) starts. There is *ZERO* extra
work
involved for the belt, and *maybe* (and I'm being
generous here) 5
minutes to swap a new tensioner for
the old one - just a couple
bolts.
Hope this helps.
Rich
Did his own 60k, but not as
experienced as Brad ;-)
-
----------------------------------------------------
Brad Bedell
wrote:
>
> Actually you have to remove the belt to remove the
Waterpump.
>
> It is a belt on your car, not a chain.
> The
belt retails for around 150.00. and another 100.00 is more than
fair
to
> replace the belt. I would look into changing the
tensioners also.
>
> Brad
> Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
>
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com
ICQ# 3612682
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On
Behalf Of Gabriel Estrada
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 2:48
PM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: Team3S: WaterPump and Timing
Chain
>
> I am going to put my VR-4 in our shop tomorrow and they
are going to
replace
> the water pump. At least I assume that is
what is spitting coolant from
> under the hood. That will be covered
by my extended warranty. My
question
> is, how difficult is it to
change the timing belt while the water pump is
> out. I do not have
service manuals, so I don't know where the two are in
> relationship to
each other. My plan is to give the mechanic a bill to
> replace the
timing chain while he is under there. But I need to know how
> much
work is involved in this type of work. Anyone that has done this
>
before please let me know. I figure since the chain is only $130
and
maybe
> another $100 for the mechanic, I assume this is a fair
price to replace
the
> chain, but I want to know b4 hand how much extra
work is involved.
> Thanks in advance
> Gabe Estrada
> 94
Pearl Yellow VR-4
> 92 GMC Typhoon
>
> For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
-
--
"If you dig it, do it.
If you really dig it, do it
twice"
- Jim Croce
(1943-1973)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:39:04 EDT
From: TrboDrvr@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Changing
the timing belt and water pump
I have to disagree with Brad. You do
have to remove the motor mount and the
alternator and bracket to change the
timing belt. If you don't, you'll be
adding several additional hours
to the job as you try to figure out how to
maneuver the belt around these
parts and properly adjust the timing belt
tensioner. Although it does
take a few additional minutes to remove these
parts, the time it will save
in the long run makes it worth it. IN fact, I'm
not even sure you can
replace the timing belt without removing the motor
mount because If I
remember correctly, you cannot get the timing belt around
it. IMO,
anyway.
Joe.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:51:56 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Changing the timing belt and water pump
You are correct, I
re-read what I wrote.. It's the water pump that you can
replace without the
belt.
You are correct in saying that the belt cannot be removed without
the motor
mount.
Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On
Behalf Of TrboDrvr@aol.com
Sent:
Tuesday, September 14, 1999 6:39 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S: Changing the timing belt and water pump
I have to disagree with
Brad. You do have to remove the motor mount and the
alternator and
bracket to change the timing belt. If you don't, you'll be
adding
several additional hours to the job as you try to figure out how to
maneuver
the belt around these parts and properly adjust the timing
belt
tensioner. Although it does take a few additional minutes to
remove these
parts, the time it will save in the long run makes it worth
it. IN fact,
I'm
not even sure you can replace the timing belt
without removing the motor
mount because If I remember correctly, you cannot
get the timing belt around
it. IMO, anyway.
Joe.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:02:34 -0600
From: Dave Monarchi <monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: My car is making noises
Jime,
I had a very similar
sounding problem which was originally diagnosed
the same. Since I
didn't want to buy a compressor, I had my mechanic
determine if there was any
way to bypass/remove it and use a shorter
belt. Upon closer
inspection, he realized it was merely a loose
mounting bracket. Problem
fixed for 1/2 hour labor. Hopefully
you'll have the same good
luck.
Dave
currently sans 3 or S.. :(
+> -----Original
Message-----From: Chris Winkley
+> <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
+>
>I received this e-mail, not sure if this person is a Team 3S
+>
subscriber or
+> >not. At any rate, I can't answer this question, so if
any of you
+> could offer
+> >a opinion/suggestion, the address
is below.
+> >From: Jime Palacios [mailto:jimejams@home.com]
+>
>Subject: My car is making noises
+>
+> Yes indeed, Ms. Palacios
is a (fairly new) subscriber... Perhaps
+> our instructions were not
clear enough... So if any of you are not
+> sure what to do-- To ask
a question of the Team3S list (all of us),
+> please send email
to:
+> stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
+>
Or to respond to her question, please click "Reply to All" (and edit
+>
out all this stuff above). Jime Palacios' full message is below:
+>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
+>
+> Hi Chris,
+> My name is Jime. I own a 92 Dodge Stealth. It has
90,000 miles on
+> it,
+> but these are the things I've already
replaced within the last year
+> and
+> a half: the internal rear
axle, and relating misc. parts, the timing
+> belt, tensioner, water pump,
battery, full valve job, and the
+> clutch. I
+> think there may be
more, I'm not positive. All I know is it costs a
+> fortune every time it
breaks down. SO...I'm praying you can help
+> save me
+> a bit by
chance. The noise is coming either from the clutch belt
+> pulley
+>
or from under the DOHC cover. It sounds like something is rubbing
+>
against a metal part. It is loud, continuous, and sounds dangerous
+>
enough that I won't drive it, even to my local dealer. A mechanic
+>
down
+> the street looked at it and said I need a $900 air
compressor.
+> However,
+> the Air compressor light that should
indicate this problem isn't on
+> or
+> blinking and my AC works
almost TOO well, It freezes me out. HELP!
+> Could
+> you possibly
know of anything else it could be?
+>
+> Totally Lost,
+>
+> Ms. Jime Palacios
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:43:49 -0500
From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
More S-AVC-R Plumbing Questions
>The orifice in the OEM
>>"H"
fitting impedes the flow from the pressure source ("Y-pipe")
>The H
fitting orifice which connects (via 1/8 hose) to to the Y
>ipple,( this is
stock setup) should now be defunct. Instead the orifice at
>the H fiting
should be capped and the 1/8 line to the Y pipe nipple should
>be removed.
The new line from SAVC-R should now go to the Y-pipe nipple and
>you'll
have to use a downsize coupling installed in the line to bring it
>down to
the proper hose (1/8) size for the nipple to accomodate the
hose.
>>when the OEM solenoid vents the "H" fitting, thus reducing
the
>>pressure to the w.g. actuators, increasing (controlling)
boost.
>>No one's response to my questions regarding the plumbing
for
>>the S-AVC-R has mentioned an orifice in their
plumbing.
I assume you have a nipple at the Y-pipe? pipe where it
starts to bend
Darc-
Yup; I have the nipple on the Y-pipe that
supplies pressure to the H
fitting. It supplies pressure to an ORIFICE
in the H fitting, which resists
flow when the OEM solenoid vents the H
fitting. This obviously
reduces the pressure to the w.g. actuators, and
allows boost to
increase. My question is, why is this function not
required in the
APEXi application? The analogy is the same as in the
plumbing
for a bathroom: If your water lines are sized properly, the
person
using the shower won't get scaulded when someone flushes
the
toilet. If the lines are not properly sized (equivalent to an
orifice)
then flushing the toilet will reduce the cold water
flow/pressure
to the shower.
Perhaps the reason the APEXi boost controller
works without
an orifice in the pressure supply path is that when the
solenoid vents
through the NC port, the flow capacity is significantly higher
than
that of the pressure supply, and the pressure to the w.g.
actuators
drops enough to allow the them to control boost. This
of course,
would depend on the size of the hoses (and fittings) used.
I'm sure
everyone on this list is tired of my pursuing this topic, so
I'll not post
again regarding the plumbing for the S-AVC-R. I do
hope; however, someone who
understands my concern will respond.
I owe lots of thanks to Ken M., R.G.,
Darc, et.al. for all the useful
information
provided.
Thanks,
ptg
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:17:53 -0500
From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
More S-AVC-R Plumbing Questions
>>responses, I still have one
perplexing point: The orifice in the OEM
>>"H" fitting impedes
the flow from the pressure source ("Y-pipe")
>>when the OEM solenoid
vents the "H" fitting, thus reducing the
>>pressure to the w.g.
actuators, increasing (controlling) boost.
>
>No, there is no flow
at all (ok, a little but negligible) as only pressure
>counts. Therefore
if the larger line leads into a smaller connector, this
>dosn't do
anything like reducing or increasing pressure.
R.G.-
Thanks for your
response.
The only thing that can affect pressure is a change in flow.
If there's
no flow in a closed system, then there is no change in
pressure.
Regards,
ptg
>>No one's response to my
questions regarding the plumbing for
>>the S-AVC-R has mentioned an
orifice in their plumbing. APEXi
>>has included an orifice in
their supplied fittings, but their
>>suggested place for its
installation would not have the desired
>>effect.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:48:29 -0500
From: "Oskar" <swede@pclink.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Downpipe
I know of three different DPs: ATR, Alamo, Stillen.Are there any
others?
I am choosing between the Alamo and the ATR. Is the Alamo
$140 better than
the ATR?
I'm leaning towards the ATR but I understand
that it does not bolt up to
anything other than ATR cat or test
pipe.
I am currently running with a test pipe that has the same bolt
pattern/angle
as the stock cat. Can I still go with the ATR and what do
I need to do to
make it fit? Can I cut, rotate and weld the flange that
comes on the ATR to
make it fit? Is this something the average muffler
shop can handle and be
expected to do a good job
at?
Thanks,
Oskar
'95 R/T TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:52:51 -0500
From: "Oskar" <swede@pclink.com>
Subject: Team3S: ATR
Super Blue dot 4
I paid $15 for the last bottle I purchased from a vendor
that is no longer
in the mail order business. Matt at Accelerated wants
$24. Does anyone
know where to get it for
less?
Thanks,
Oskar
'95 R/T TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:06:08 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Downpipe
I have the ATR, and have bolted it up to 4 different
cars.. Each fit every
time.
The 94+ cars seemed to have changed the
angle of the pre-cat, don't know
about it.
Brad
Check out my
home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On
Behalf Of Oskar
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 11:48 PM
To: Team
3S
Subject: Team3S: Downpipe
I know of three different DPs: ATR,
Alamo, Stillen.Are there any others?
I am choosing between the Alamo and
the ATR. Is the Alamo $140 better than
the ATR?
I'm leaning
towards the ATR but I understand that it does not bolt up to
anything other
than ATR cat or test pipe.
I am currently running with a test pipe that
has the same bolt pattern/angle
as the stock cat. Can I still go with
the ATR and what do I need to do to
make it fit? Can I cut, rotate and
weld the flange that comes on the ATR to
make it fit? Is this something
the average muffler shop can handle and be
expected to do a good job
at?
Thanks,
Oskar
'95 R/T TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:08:52 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: ATR Super Blue dot 4
Any of the Porsche mail order catalogs'
will handle the ATR products.
I generally pick mine up from the local
performance shop for ~15.00 qt.
Reigning Performance
7437 Burnet
Rd
Austin TX, 78757
512-454-4600
They might take a couple of
days, but they usually have the fluid in stock.
Brad
Check out my
home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On
Behalf Of Oskar
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 11:53 PM
To: Team
3S
Subject: Team3S: ATR Super Blue dot 4
I paid $15 for the last
bottle I purchased from a vendor that is no longer
in the mail order
business. Matt at Accelerated wants $24. Does anyone
know where
to get it for less?
Thanks,
Oskar
'95 R/T TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Sep 1999 01:06:56 -0500
From: "Jeff" <spydervr4@home.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Downpipe
The ATR is a better deal, EXCEPT that it doesn't have a
flex section like
the Alamo. This isn't necessarily significant, but
you really should have
one to prevent broken exhaust hangers and extra
noise.
jeff
'95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
'90 Mitsubishi Eclipse
GSX
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Oskar <swede@pclink.com>
To: Team 3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent:
Tuesday, September 14, 1999 11:48 PM
Subject: Team3S:
Downpipe
> I know of three different DPs: ATR, Alamo, Stillen.Are
there any others?
>
> I am choosing between the Alamo and the
ATR. Is the Alamo $140 better
than
> the ATR?
>
> I'm
leaning towards the ATR but I understand that it does not bolt up to
>
anything other than ATR cat or test pipe.
>
> I am currently running
with a test pipe that has the same bolt
pattern/angle
> as the stock
cat. Can I still go with the ATR and what do I need to do to
> make
it fit? Can I cut, rotate and weld the flange that comes on the
ATR
to
> make it fit? Is this something the average muffler shop
can handle and be
> expected to do a good job at?
>
>
Thanks,
> Oskar
> '95 R/T TT
>
> For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Sep 1999 02:05:57 -0700
From: "Nav Moondi" <moondin@megahits.com>
Subject:
Team3S: West Coast Gathering Updates
Note: If you're not a 3S Owner on
the West Coast, please ignore.
*** 1 1/2 Weeks left!! The countdown
begins folks! ***
[Hotels] : If you haven't booked a hotel, I
suggest doing so SOON! The best
one going right now
(and where I
have a room) is the Monterey EconoLodge (831-372-5851)
at
$100-$110/night. Prices
for other places are *much*
higher!. If you would like to share your room,
or like to find
someone
to share with (worst case scenario, bring a sleeping bag and you can
crash
in mine or someone elses),
please let me know. I can take 1 or
2 extra in my room.
[Awards] : I'm gonna pick up the awards later on this
week. If anyone would
like to donate door prizes, please
let me
know. Same for any sponsors.
[Misc] : I've made the dinner
reservations at The Mucky Duck. We're all set
for that, and they're
definately looking
forward to seeing us there! Park permits are all
set. Caravan info for the
LA trip up is all set and posted
(SF
people, you still have to pick something!).
There is another car
show going on that weekend (Cherry Jubilee). I'm going
to try tomorrow
to contact them
and perhaps we can have a special "ride-through" in their
event, or some
sort of unique display for them. Maybe
even be part
of a parade! I've put in a call to City Hall about that.
[Laguna
Sec] : Doesn't look like we'll get any track time this year, due to
prior
engagements they have. But we may
stop by and see about getting some
time or special arrangements for us for
later this year, or next
year.
[Cruises in Monterey] : Some you have suggested various places to
cruise in
Monterey along the coast and pier. Thanks.
Please if you can,
bring directions on a paper we can quickly photocopy for
our members, in case
1 or 2 get lost!
[Contact #'s] : Next week, I'll post a pager/cell
# on the site you can
call in case you get lost to/from the
gathering.
[Radio] : I'm going to call tomorrow to a few radio stations
in the area, to
announce the gathering and the site to
people in the
area. We may get some curious spectators!
- -= nav
=-
West Coast Gathering Site: http://www.goline.com/mmercy/nav/wcg.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Sep 1999 06:55:03 -0500
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re:
Downpipe fit
The 91-93 vs. 94+front precats are different flange bolt
orientation on the
distal end; and the 94 precat is SLIGHTLY shorter,
also. You can
not bolt one in place of the other, I tried. I
would definitely buy the
specific year fit downpipe from the
outset.
Jack Tertadian
Brad Bedell wrote:
> I have ATR,
and have bolted it to 4 different cars. Each fit every time.
> The 94+
cars seemed to have changed angle of pre-cat, don't know.
>
--------
> three different DPs: ATR, Alamo, Stillen.
> Choosing
between Alamo/ATR. Is Alamo $140 better than ATR?
> ATR: I
understand it doesn't bolt up to
> anything other than ATR cat/test
pipe.
> with the ATR what do I need to do to
> make it fit?
Can I cut, rotate, weld flange on ATR to make it fit?
> Oskar
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Sep 1999 06:56:08 -0500
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S:
downpipe fit
Oops, I think it is the 91-93 front precat that is shorter,
sorry.
JT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:34:23 EDT
From: TrboDrvr@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Downpipe
I have the Alamo downpipe on my 91 TT. The pipe took me
about 15 minutes to
install. I don't know about anyone else on the
list, but if I can do ANY
exhaust job in 15 minutes without having to modify
anything, it's worth the
extra $140. So if the ATR is not a direct
bolt on, then I'd definitely go
with the Alamo. PLus, the Alamo is a
very good product. I'd recommend it.
Joe 91 TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:39:54 -0700
From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: More S-AVC-R Plumbing Questions
Paul;
If you are still
concerned about the SAVC-R and it's plumbing features,
particulalry the
question of pressure (with the loss of the the H to Y-pipe
connection), you
can always email APEXI at their website and query them, or
phone. They answer
email but I found it was rathr a slow response when I
queried them. I found
the advice of Barry King much more helpful at that
juncture, and in keeping
with that tradition try to help the next in line.
Best
Darc
-
-
>Thanks for your response.
>The only thing that can affect
pressure is a change in flow. If there's
>no flow in a closed
system, then there is no change in
pressure.
>
>Regards,
>ptg
>
>>>No one's
response to my questions regarding the plumbing for
>>>the S-AVC-R
has mentioned an orifice in their plumbing. APEXi
>>>has
included an orifice in their supplied fittings, but
their
>>>suggested place for its installation would not have the
desired
>>>effect.
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:04:17 EDT
From: "Dg B" <dbretton@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Suspension shops in NE area?
Hi all, (this'll be short and
sweet)
Anyone here know of any good suspension shops in the NE
area?
Thanks in advance!
Regards,
Dennis
______________________________________________________
Get Your
Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:04:39 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: More S-AVC-R Plumbing Questions
> >No one's response to
my questions regarding the plumbing for
> >the S-AVC-R has mentioned an
orifice in their plumbing. APEXi
> >has included an orifice in
their supplied fittings, but their
> >suggested place for its
installation would not have the desired
> >effect.
>
>
What effect are you speaking about ? Usually, there is no orivice needed
as
> this would cause a leak in the lines. AFAIK, there are three hoses
that go
> to the Apexi box, the inlet from the y-pipe, the outlet to the
"H" type
> connector and the boost sensing line from the
manifold.
I assume by "Apexi box" you mean the solenoid. Actually,
there are only two
hoses required: 1 from the y-pipe and 1 to the
wastegate actuator connector (H
or Tee). The Apexi solenoid just vents
to atmosphere.
The pressure sensor requires a separate hose to the
plenum OR you can tap into a
line pressurized by the plenum.
- --
Drive faster, it is later than you think!
Ken Middaugh (858)
455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:11:17 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: More S-AVC-R Plumbing Questions
Hi Paul,
Sorry I
couldn't reply yesterday. I was sooo busy meeting 6 fellow 3SI
owners
for lunch!
I was unaware there even was an orifice in the H
connector. I just replaced the
stock H connector with a supplied
Tee. Boost hold & control performance seems
perfect to me with the
tee so I don't think you need to worry about it. Since
the Apexi
solenoid cycles at a very rapid rate, my guess is that they/we want
no
restrictions thus allowing for the quickest pressure buildup & release
in the
actuator lines.
The Apexi kit did contain a small filter
which the instructions indicate should
be inline with the pressure
sensor. I assume the filter prevents the sensor
from getting gunked up
by any oil that blows by the turbos.
Hope this
helps,
Ken
> Hi All-
> Up front, I want to thank those of
you who have responded with
> really useful comentary regarding my
preparation for installing
> the AEPXi S-AVC-R. You have showed me
that my interpretation
> of the way the hardware works is correct.
In spite of all the helpful
> responses, I still have one perplexing
point: The orifice in the OEM
> "H" fitting impedes the flow from
the pressure source ("Y-pipe")
> when the OEM solenoid vents the "H"
fitting, thus reducing the
> pressure to the w.g. actuators, increasing
(controlling) boost.
> No one's response to my questions regarding the
plumbing for
> the S-AVC-R has mentioned an orifice in their
plumbing. APEXi
> has included an orifice in their supplied
fittings, but their
> suggested place for its installation would not have
the desired
> effect. You folks who have installed S-AVC-R
controllers with
> success, please let me know what you did! Many
thanks!
- --
Drive faster, it is later than you think!
Ken
Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:35:50 -0500
From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
More S-AVC-R Plumbing Questions
Darc-
My reason for posting on the
list (as well as to you) is to get
my question to the maximum number of
people who might be
able to help. If this is inappropriate "net
etiquette," please let
me know. I'm doing it again now, to
correct some erroneous
info I posted previously, regarding the orifice in the
S-AVC-R
system. To wit:
I mistakenly thought the purpose of the
APEXi orifice was the
same as the one in the OEM system which it is
not. The APEXi
does not require an orifice to impede the supply
flow,
because it turns the supply off. How I got so far off
track,
I can only blame on my having too little sleep or something.
The
APEXi orifice does go in the NC port as stated in the
instruction book.
Having no orifice in ths port would result
in the waste gates snapping shut,
possibly resulting in
boost spiking. I FINALLY understand how the
system
works! Thanks to you and all who responded on this topic.
Regards,
ptg
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:52:30 -0500
From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
More S-AVC-R Plumbing Questions
Ken-
Please note my post of a few
minutes ago to Darc and
everyone on this subject. My S-AVC-R kit
doesn't have
a filter in it. Maybe you have a later model than
mine.
I bought it well over a year ago, and wanted to let the
factory
warranty run out before installing it. It does have
the orifice which I speak
of in the previous post.
Regards,
ptg
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:09:54 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: More S-AVC-R Plumbing Questions
Paul,
There is NO
unidirectional FLOW through the wastegate actuator line.
Remember the flow is
seen in the whole system and the turbos who are forcing
air in. This results
in air flow and due to the engines resistance boost
rises, i.e. air is
getting compressed. This compressed air goes into any
edge and curve and ...
nipple attached to anything that is under boost. When
I say go it is true
that the air is pressed into the hosing of the wastegate
system that pushes
the small pistons in the wastegate actuators.
If the throttle is closed
and boost released, the pressured air goes back to
the y-pipe. But this flow
is very, very small (calculate the lenght and
diameter of every part and
compare this to the whole system .. it's
negligible) and therefore you can
only say pressure is built up in the hoses
as it is in the y-pipe.
The
orifice you've seen is ONLY a reducement type connector to feed the
smaller
hoses. This causes absolutely nothing to the pressure in the system.
Don't
worry about this and ignore it. It does nothing bad nor good, really
!
For the Apexi filter, Ken is absolutely right and I highly recommend
this
filter to be used. As I had a lot of oil in the intake last year, I
opened
the Solenoid Box and found everything soaked by oil. It took me a long
time
to clean it.
Finally, don't care about any orifice as the
pressure is that low and there
is no real flow the stuff will not do
anything.
Happy boosting,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:34:44 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: More S-AVC-R Plumbing Questions
> I mistakenly thought the
purpose of the APEXi orifice was the
> same as the one in the OEM system
which it is not. The APEXi
> does not require an orifice to impede
the supply flow,
> because it turns the supply off. How I got
so far off track,
> I can only blame on my having too little sleep or
something.
> The APEXi orifice does go in the NC port as stated in
the
> instruction book. Having no orifice in ths port would
result
> in the waste gates snapping shut, possibly resulting in
>
boost spiking. I FINALLY understand how the system
> works!
Thanks to you and all who responded on this topic.
> Regards,
>
ptg
>
Hi Paul,
I looked at the Apexi Web site since they
still have the documentation posted
for the earlier SAVC-R like yours (yes,
mine is the newest and is a little
different). The plumbing looks
pretty simple & straight forward.
Although the Apexi orifice goes in
the NC port, both orifices appear to perform
the same function -- to restrict
the flow of air vented from the wastegates
(while boosting). The stock
setup restricts it on the supply line, the Apexi
setup restricts it on the
solenoid "exhaust" port as air is vented to the
atmosphere. Don't
really know the advantage of the orifice though since it
doesn't come with
the new kit and otherwise the plumbing is identical to my new
one.
Perhaps the orifice causes a slower pressure transition providing a
smoother
response.
Anyway, It looks like you have a pretty good handle on
things. When are you
going to install it?
Best,
Ken
-
--
Drive faster, it is later than you think!
Ken Middaugh (858)
455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:43:08 -0700
From: "Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
Subject:
Team3S: SAVC-R
Paul;
To summarize the plumbing:
1)The
Y-pipe line now runs to the new solenoid NO (NC) connection.
2)The former
line from the y-pipe to the H connection is removed and capped
at the H
connection--no capping required if H is replaced by a T connection.
3) The
sensor line is tapped into the short small line at the back of
the
plenum
4) Old solenoid lines are removed and both capped at the old
solenoid.
5) COM line from new solenoid is plumbed into H connection (open
nipple on
H connection from the old solenoid line)--still applies if H is
replaced by
T connection.
6) Rear turbo nipple (line formerly to old
solenoid) is capped.
7) Downsize adapters are used in-line to bring Apexi
hoses down to stock
size
hose to fit the existing nipples. Clamps used
whenever possible.
8) Filter installed in sensor line if desired.
9)
Insure hoses have no kinks and are as short as possible, route and
zip-tie
them
neatly to existing hoses, and use vaccum caps that are
commercially
available.
This is what you should have. It's what I have
and what just about everybody
I know has, who has a BC. Plumbing is
pretty standard on all makes of BC's.
Electronics may
differ, but I
suspect even these will splice into the same wires. If your
Unit is
a year
old, then it is likely identical to mine...and mine works well .
Hope
this helps.
Best
Darc
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
End
of Team3S Digest V1 #284
****************************
For unsubscribe
info and FAQ, see our web page at http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm