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From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #267
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest        Thursday, August 26 1999        Volume 01 : Number 267




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Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:25:45 +0200
From: lehir@genesiscom.ch (Genesiscon Lehir)
Subject: RE: Team3S: horsepower calculations

Hi Roger

>>You're absolutely right, the drivetrain loss is a function of speed (and
>>therefore rpm) in a specific gear (with very small fluctuation)

I think it's probably mostly a mix between a function of speed (for the
drivetrain by itself, and a function of RPM and gear engaged (for the
gearbox). There's also a part for the tires, as I saw a 9 HP difference,
simply by changing some tires to others !!


>>The curve is not linear and is measured by running the car on the dyno up
to
>>6000 in the gear you want to measure power and then pressing the clutch.
The
>>resistance is then measured against speed / rpm and stored. On the power
>>measurement this loss is then added to the wheel hp that finally results
in
>>the flywheel hp.

That's the correct way to do it.
As soon as you "clutch out", the car will slow down, and the dyno will see
"negative horsepower" (I miss the correct words here), so one can compute
the power eaten by the drivetrain, as well as the max power being generated
by the engine.

>>At the max wheel hp we'll have a specific loss and this added results in
max
>>engine hp. Have a look at my dyno sheet
>>http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/roger_1.gif

Correct way to do it, even if I often saw people only considering the
"positive" value (i.e the curve ABOVE), to find max HP, and max Torque...
and this can lead to incorrect results.

>>Henri, on what dyno have you measured the 300ZX ?

Bosh 2WD dyno, able to measure up to only 400 HP at the wheels (they
do NOT want to see me anymore with the Z :-), Garage De Goudron, in Bulle.
Everything being compensated for normal conditions (20C, sea level)

>> 20% (on max.hp) is high for a RWD

Sigh.....sad, but true. But remember, the fluid you have in the gearbox
makes a difference, as well as the TIRES (this was an astonishment to me)

>> but them the 28% on my AWD would make sense.

I think it's in the correct ball park

>> On Audi Quattros they saw around 20-26%.

That's why I hate to see percentage.....how was it measured.....was it
at peak power, on which transmission combination.
If it's measured the same way as yours, I'd say that it's pretty normal...
and the difference between 26 and 28 is not that big

Henri

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Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 08:28:40 CDT
From: "Curt Gendron" <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: Minnesota cookout reminder

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to give a quick reminder to anyone thinking about coming to
the "All Mitsubishi Cookout and Car Show" up here in Minneapolis.  It is
this Saturday from 11am to 4pm.  This event is open to all Mitsubishi made
sports cars.  So far we have 21 people signed up to come.  All the details
can be found at: http://www.mn3s.org/all_mitsubishi.html

Happy boosting,
Curt
http://www.mn3s.org


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Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:10:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Dennis Moore <stealth@kiva.net>
Subject: Team3S: Tires (Was: Followup to steering question from last week)

You didn't mention which size you're using.  If you are on 16" wheels, I
can offer some suggestions.

I had good experience with BFGoodrich Comp T/A VR4 tires, 225/55VR16.
Long life, good stickiness, especially in wet weather, decent noise, all
around much better tires than the previous two flavors of Goodyear I've
used.

A few months ago I upgraded to Firestone Firehawk SZ50, 245/50ZR16.  WOW!
Noise is still good, stickiness is better wet or dry.  They're about
US$100 more per set than the BFGs would have been.  I'm hoping the tread
life is as good as the BFGs, but that'll be determined over the coming
year or so.

Hope this helps.

Dennis Moore
stealth@kiva.net

Don't mess in the affairs of dragons,
For you are crunchy and go good with ketchup.

On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, Chad Beeder wrote:

> On another note, I do need new tires soon.  Right now I'm running the stock
> Michelin tires.  Can anyone recommend anything better, or should I stick
> with the Michelins?
>

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Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:32:09 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Road racing and brakes

>Have to let you in on a secret that the race team and I have come up with
>for the Porterfield Pads.

Now the big question : Where can I get the Porterfield brake pads for a good
price besides Porterfield directly (or is this the only source ?). The
Pagids are $230 and the z-Mevius $200 here. I'm not happy with the japanese
ones (I probably have to bake them too) and I'd give the race pads a try
with the Bremsa brakes.

Thanks in advance,
Roger
93'3000GT TT


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Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 07:19:21 -0700
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Tire suggestions

Chad...

Not sure which Michelins are stock on the NT, but I will always recommend
the XGTs as the best all around, all weather tire. I've had VERY good
experiences with many sizes and types of Michelins.

Looking forward...Chris

1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/HKS Super Flo intake, TEC 15G turbos, bored
and polished throttle body, RC 560cc injectors, HKS fuel pump, GReddy PRofec
A boost controller, G-force ECU upgrade, HKS SBOV, custom intercoolers,
Predator dry cell battery, Magnecore 8.5mm wires, NGK double platinum plugs
gapped at .030", ATR downpipe and test pipe, GReddy catback exhaust, GReddy
turbo timer, Eibach 1" drop progressive springs, Michelin SX MXX3 Pilots)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Chad Beeder [mailto:syzygy@eskimo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 11:20 PM
To: Team3S
Subject: Team3S: Followup to steering question from last week
<snip>

On another note, I do need new tires soon.  Right now I'm running the stock
Michelin tires.  Can anyone recommend anything better, or should I stick
with the Michelins?
<more snip>

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Chad Beeder
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Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:59:54 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Team3S: Knock summary (from TMO list)

I just wanted to share the information on our bloody enemy : knock. With the
datalogger I'm recording this value against rpm and timing and with this I'm
able to immediatly see the result of the water injection. Goal is to run zero
knock at 6000 with as much bosot as possible. (y-pipe gasket totally broke
apart.. waiting now)

Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT TT

- ---------------

Knock as it occurs in an engine is a very "impulsy" type of signal.  In
other words, very spiky with considerable gaps between spikes.  The ECU
samples knock very quickly and can therefore easily catch all of these
spiky events.  However, the datalogger port can only log the knock value
about once every five seconds if you are logging a lot of other stuff at
the same time.  So it is quite possible that the logger would miss raw
knock events.

The ECU does not act directly on raw knock values anyway.  Rather, it
checks to see if the spike value is over a certain amount.  If so, it
increments a value - the value I call "knock sum".  Counteracting this
constant incrementing of knock is a "bleeder" that bleeds the value of
"knock sum" over time.  So if the knock remains below a certain level, the
"bleeder" in the code will eventually drag knock sum to zero.  In a DSM, if
knock sum gets above 7, I think, timing will start to be reduced.  This
could be different for the 3000.  In fact, it is possible that the 3000
uses a higher limit than 43 like in the DSM.  Please let me know if you
find that to be true.

So the reason I use knock sum instead of actual knock is twofold.  One,
since it is an integral, you will not miss events if you sample at the
wrong time.  Two, knock sum directly affects timing, so viewing it takes
you closer to how the ECU is thinking.

- -todd-

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Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:44:00 -0500
From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Driving School

Being only
>>25 (and not part of any Silicon Valley start up) means my VR4 is a luxury.


Rich-
Being only 25, how do you justify caling yourself "old poop?"
Regards, ptg

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Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:50:47 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: '92 Stealth Twin Turbo AWD 5-speed trans

Here's a question from a non-member (he found us on Eric's site).  One
of you guys want to email him privately with 'chapter & verse' about
the Getrag?

Thanks,

Forrest

- -----Original Message-----From: Larry Estep <lestep@worldnet.att.net>

Does anyone know where I can buy parts to rebuild the transaxle gear
cluster for a '92 Getrag Stealth AWD 5-speed manual transmission?  The
bearings are shot because the previous owner drove it without any
transmission oil for over a year and a half.

The gears are still in good shape, but all of the bearings are burnt
up.  I need the three pairs of bearings for each of the shafts
internal
to the transaxle as well as the left and right oil seals.

Please return email to:

lestep@gaylordentertainment.com

or call me at work at (615)316-6602.

Also, I have the shop manual from Chrysler, but it does not list any
internal parts for the all-wheel drive 5-speed.  It does for the
front-wheel drive 5-speed, so if you know they will work, I might be
able to use those.  One of my local parts stores has the oil seals for
two of the five possible front-wheel drive 5-speed transaxles, but
those
oil seals are larger than the ones in the AWD, so I am doubtful that
any
of the other parts will work.

Thanks in advance,

Larry Estep



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Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:26:00 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S: Eibach Nightmare is over!

Yes, indeed, the tech at the Dodge Dealership got careless and trashed
the eccentric bolts (rear camber adjusters) while he was installing my
Eibach Pro-Kit Springs...  And it only took him 12 hrs of labor to do
it!!!  They had my Stealth for 8 days, but finally finished the
install when the bolts came in, and easily brought the alignment back
to spec.  Being one of the "good guys" dealerships, they paid for a
rental car over the weekend, and scrapped all the paperwork on what
they spent, and charged me a flat $375 for everything-- labor,
alignment and tax!

This is the RIGHT way to do business, and I have confidence in them
doing a job right, so they've got me as a permanent customer.  If
you're in the Bay Area, that's Les Vogel Dodge, Burlingame, 650
342-2120.  They're not the cheapest around, but they're pros, so I
trust them with my car.  And the alignment is the best I've ever had.
With the Eibachs, the Stealth feels great!

Thanks to all of you who helped me with suggestions, and some extra
education.  :-)

Best,

Forrest


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Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:28:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mike Baldwin <mbaldwin@eecs.tufts.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Driving School

<grin> I'm not Rich, I'm Mike!


> Rich-
> Being only 25, how do you justify caling yourself "old poop?"
> Regards, ptg
>
>

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End of Team3S Digest V1 #267
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