--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #266
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest        Wednesday, August 25 1999        Volume 01 : Number 266




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 04:26:27 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S: W.Coast Gathering, Monterey; BANG'99#2, Portland...

- -----Original Message-----From: Nav Moondi <moondin@megahits.com>
- -------snip------
>Here is the new url for the gathering: Sept. 24th,
>25th and 26th in Monterey, CA :
>http://www.megahits.com/moondin/wcg.htm
>Please send me an email if you will be attending.
>Spread the word! It's the first and only West Coast
>Gathering we'll have this century! :)


Errrrr, point of order, Mr. Chairman...  This IS important news, and
we're spreading the word, but:

1.  Cross posting (to both lists in one email) is NOT allowed.  You
were away, Nav, but every time someone answers a cross-post to
Starnet, it BOUNCES here (lots of those lately).  That means our ISP
gets pissed, which endangers the Team3S list.  Please, DON'T do it,
folks!

2.  Thanks for finally letting us know about the WCG...  It's the
first time many of us have heard of this, so it may be difficult for
many to make plans.  But it sounds like it will be a fine array of
cars, and great fun!  (I just got back from Monterey last night-- just
gorgeous there!).

3.  I guess you're a little late being "the FIRST" West Coast
gathering...  The Pacific NW guys have been having them for years, we
at "Team3S" (and others) had BANG'99#1 (Bay Area Northwest Gathering)
in January here in San Francisco, and we are having BANG'99#2 in
Portland THIS WEEKEND!!!

BANG'99 plans:  Some of us will be racing at PIR (Portland
International Raceway) on Friday night; Saturday AM features a
cavalcade/phot-op through some beautiful winding roads, Barbecue at
Chris Winkley & Teri Beaman's house in the afternoon, and a HEART
concert that night; more photos & brunch Sunday morning, and a STYX
concert Sunday PM.

But undoubtedly, the West Coast Gathering will be "the LAST" gathering
of the century (unless we squeeze in a BANG'99#3!), and probably the
biggest!  :-)

Anyone interested in joining either gathering should reply in private
email:

BANG'99#2, Portland, OR, Aug. 27, 28, 29:
Chris Winkley cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com

WCG#1, Monterey, CA, Sept. 24, 25, 26:
Nav Moondi moondin@megahits.com

Everyone--  Have a GREAT time, drink but don't drive, and keep the
shiny side up!  See you there!

Best,

Forrest



For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:27:06 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: horsepower calculations

>I don't see why the drivetrain horsepower loss is a PERCENTAGE of the POWER
>generated by the engine.


You're absolutely right, the drivetrain loss is a function of speed (and
therefore rpm) in a specific gear (with very small fluctuation)

The curve is not linear and is measured by running the car on the dyno up to
6000 in the gear you want to measure power and then pressing the clutch. The
resistance is then measured against speed / rpm and stored. On the power
measurement this loss is then added to the wheel hp that finally results in
the flywheel hp.

At the max wheel hp we'll have a specific loss and this added results in max
engine hp. Have a look at my dyno sheet
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/roger_1.gif

Here the max wheel hp is 188kW with a loss of 73.5kW. Therefore engine power
is 261.5kW and 73.5kW is a loss of 28.1%. This of course only belongs to
peak hp. The loss difference of the cars is due to the fact that my 13G
equipped car had the hp peak earlier than the others. Therefore the loss is
somewhat smaller at the lower rpm and therefore the real engine hp a little
lower then the others. But the curves on the loss are the very same (my 5
speed is a little different but not too much)

Henri, on what dyno have you measured the 300ZX ? 20% (on max.hp) is high
for a RWD but them the 28% on my AWD would make sense. On Audi Quattros they
saw around 20-26%.

Roger
93'3000GT TT (y-pipe-less at the moment...)

>I agree that it would fluctuate a little (caused by increased friction),
but
>not that much.
>
>If the value is given as a percentage of the STOCK horsepower, I would
>agree.....but a drivetrain loss
>that is a DIRECT function of the power generated......doesn't compute
right.
>
>I know as a fact that in a TTZ, the drivetrains loss is about 20% of the
>STOCK horsepower (300 HP), but stays the same when you increase the power
>output up to 550 HP....and I don't really see WHY my Stealth, even if it's
>an AWD, should be different.


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:05:00 EDT
From: TurboDrvn@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: horsepower calculations

In a message dated 8/23/99 5:05:23 PM Central Daylight Time,
curt_gendron@hotmail.com writes:

<< I used my G-tech Pro over the weekend to take some horsepower readings at
 different levels of boost.  I thought you might want to see what water
 injection can do.  :)  I've got all the data at this link: 
 http://mn3s.org/horsepower.html
 
 Enjoy,
 Curt, >>

Hey Curt & everyone,

    Excellent post & website, Curt!!  Very informative!  So you're definitely
in favor of the water injections system, eh?  hehehheheheh.....lol...I know! 
I can't wait to get it as well.      ;-P 
   
    I'm wondering.....did you have to calibrate the weight of your car at all
with the G-tech Pro?  If so, did you calculate the weight at about 4005lbs.?
(that's what my '92 VR4 weighs with me (230lbs.) in it, 1/8 tank of gas,
removed spare tire & full interior).

Talk to you later,

Ahmed "AL-Crazy" - '92 VR4  (Still in Body shop!!)
GReddy Profec B boost controller, GReddy turbo timer, Apex'i sequential
b.o.v., SPI motorsport boost gauge & pillar pod, K&N filtercharger, Alamo
Downpipe, Hi-flow cat, Borla exhaust, Magnecore 8.5mm wires & new NGK spark
plugs gapped at .032, Apex'i New liquid crystal Super AFC (not installed
yet), KVR Cross drilled rotors with carbon fiber pads, Nitto Power Extreme
NT-555 (255/40/17's) tires, Enkei RP-O1 17x9 (42mm offset) racing wheels &
Eibach Pro-Kit Springs (not installed yet).  Coming soon:  Turbo upgrade,
550cc. injectors & HKS fuel pump (hopefully all will be installed before
Sept. 12th & 18th. for the IMPORT NOPI Drag WARS!!!!)
&
1987 Grand National (for sale): way too many mods to list!  Please forward my
email address to anyone who may be interested in purchasing this collector's
car!!! 
 
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:25:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mike Baldwin <mbaldwin@eecs.tufts.edu>
Subject: Team3S: Driving School

Dude, that sounds like an incredible experience.

Just out of curiousity, how much does all this racing cost you? Being only
25 (and not part of any Silicon Valley start up) means my VR4 is a luxury.
Can't afford to bang it up.

I have car payments for the next 2 years, but maybe I'll pick up a used
car somewhere to race around in. What do you think - an old 1G?

mb

97 VR4

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:01:32 CDT
From: "Curt Gendron" <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: horsepower calculations

Hey Ahmed,

Yes, you do need to enter the weight into the G-tech.  I had about a quarter
of a tank of gas.  I entered 4,000 lbs. for the weight.  All horsepower runs
were made in 2nd and 3rd gear, but mostly 2nd.  It creates less drag if your
going slower.  Thats why 2nd is better.

later,
Curt
http://www.mn3s.org


>Hey Curt & everyone,
>
>     Excellent post & website, Curt!!  Very informative!  So you're
>definitely
>in favor of the water injections system, eh?  hehehheheheh.....lol...I
>know!
>I can't wait to get it as well.      ;-P
>
>     I'm wondering.....did you have to calibrate the weight of your car at
>all
>with the G-tech Pro?  If so, did you calculate the weight at about
>4005lbs.?
>(that's what my '92 VR4 weighs with me (230lbs.) in it, 1/8 tank of gas,
>removed spare tire & full interior).
>
>Talk to you later,
>
>Ahmed "AL-Crazy" - '92 VR4  (Still in Body shop!!)


_______________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:12:37 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Driving School

>Just out of curiousity, how much does all this racing cost you? Being only
>25 (and not part of any Silicon Valley start up) means my VR4 is a luxury.
>Can't afford to bang it up.

For Blackhawk Farms, a race weekend costs:

Entry fee: $150
New front race pads: $120
Plus travel, hotel, and meals.

The next event at Road America will cost $250 for an entry fee.
Events at Heartland Park are $200.

For a one-time try, you should get by for about $500 (new pads, brake
fluid, entry fee, travel)
Don't worry about banging up the car -- the instructor won't let you.
Because you don't know how to brake properly yet, you may ruin a rotor or
two, and definitely will go through a set of pads. Save the old street
pads, and put them back in when the event is over.

If you want to do it on a regular basis, you'll need a set of race tires
($800) and a spare set of wheels ($400). The tires should last for 3-4
events, or an entire season (I do three events per year so far, but would
like to do about six). You'll replace front pads  every event, and front
rotors every 2-3 events. I ran my first season on street tires, and wore
them down very fast.

>
>I have car payments for the next 2 years, but maybe I'll pick up a used
>car somewhere to race around in. What do you think - an old 1G?

A 3000GT is a tough car to campaign because it's so heavy and expensive to
fix if you ding it. You might want to think about a AWD Eclipse or Eagle
Talon instead. They weigh 1,000 pounds less, are cheaper to run, and race
parts are readily available. That keeps it in the family, too.
>
Rich/old poop
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:12:37 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Driving School

>Just out of curiousity, how much does all this racing cost you? Being only
>25 (and not part of any Silicon Valley start up) means my VR4 is a luxury.
>Can't afford to bang it up.

For Blackhawk Farms, a race weekend costs:

Entry fee: $150
New front race pads: $120
Plus travel, hotel, and meals.

The next event at Road America will cost $250 for an entry fee.
Events at Heartland Park are $200.

For a one-time try, you should get by for about $500 (new pads, brake
fluid, entry fee, travel)
Don't worry about banging up the car -- the instructor won't let you.
Because you don't know how to brake properly yet, you may ruin a rotor or
two, and definitely will go through a set of pads. Save the old street
pads, and put them back in when the event is over.

If you want to do it on a regular basis, you'll need a set of race tires
($800) and a spare set of wheels ($400). The tires should last for 3-4
events, or an entire season (I do three events per year so far, but would
like to do about six). You'll replace front pads  every event, and front
rotors every 2-3 events. I ran my first season on street tires, and wore
them down very fast.

>
>I have car payments for the next 2 years, but maybe I'll pick up a used
>car somewhere to race around in. What do you think - an old 1G?

A 3000GT is a tough car to campaign because it's so heavy and expensive to
fix if you ding it. You might want to think about a AWD Eclipse or Eagle
Talon instead. They weigh 1,000 pounds less, are cheaper to run, and race
parts are readily available. That keeps it in the family, too.
>
Rich/old poop
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:57:50 -0400
From: mark kibort <mkibort@compuserve.com>
Subject: Team3S: Horsepower calculations.  (Loss estimations)

Hello all,

As I mentioned before, How in the heck can you have or measure a 30% loss.
 I saw some mention of the
"loss inventory" but how was that measured?  On the dyno, you can do a
coast down in gear and out of gear to get
rolling losses which are about 20 hp at 130 mph and go down to 10 hp at 80
mph  (So this variable is speed dependant)
you can see the compression and general engine shape by doing a coast down
with it in gear, but those numbers are about 1/2 the driven wheel hp.  So,
how do you get 30% loss in a fairly efficient gear box and diff that should
be in the sub 20 loss range?.)
I would love to think that my 250 hp to the ground 928S track car has
357hp, but no way. (more like 288HP with a 15% loss)
I race cars that are in the 300 to 350 range on the flywheel, and they are
definitely faster on the straights on the track.
My next thought is if it was true, you would be boiling transmission fluid
as the entire 30% loss in energy has to go somewhere , and that somewhere
is heat.  Minus the rolling losses of about 20 hp, you would have 100 hp of
pure heat coming out of a transmission.
Think of the heat  and thermal mass of a 100 hp engine, and then think of
how much of that 100 hp is going up in heat.  ( I think I remember
something about our "heat engines" being about 50% efficient .    So, 50 hp
out of an engine in heat is still very hot, even with water cooling it.
Now double that number and think of that heat in just your transmission and
rear differential.

Im just thinking out loud here , but are we being a little optimistic on
the HP flywheel numbers? 
Really interested in the calculations of the losses in your  4wd monsters.

Respectfully,

Mark Kibort
eRACING
www.electricsupercharger.com

PS.   Just returned from a Touring car club race at Buttonwillow Raceway,
where Team eRACiNG took 1st and 2nd place overall against some major
trailerbabies.    The 450 hp mustang, was over heating over the two days,
so its mechanic and driver had to settle for a third and pack up there
tools trailer sets of tires and trailer and go home with their tails
between there legs.  Sometimes Racing is not about who's car is fastest,
but who's car can run properly under stress. ( that "stang" had every mod
you could think of and done very well.   You could eat off the engine, and
heat your food right on top of that Supercharger.
Both eRACiNG cars (european M3 lightweight full race, but streetable, and
the 928S ) had the eRAM electricsuperchargers.
OUR first victory.



 a   Message text written by INTERNET:stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>Some food for thoughts

>>The multiplication factor you are using appears to be too low.  According
to
>>Roger et al's dyno test in Feb, a 2nd gen with 18" wheels & 6 speed have
about a
>>29.55% loss.  Thus the wheel to flywheel multiplication factor should be:
1 / (1
>>- .2955) = 1.419!  (I too have a hard time believeing this multiplication
>>factor, but that is what I calculate from the info that Roger has
previously
>>posted, see includes).

I don't see why the drivetrain horsepower loss is a PERCENTAGE of the POWER
generated by the engine.

I agree that it would fluctuate a little (caused by increased friction),
but
not that much.

If the value is given as a percentage of the STOCK horsepower, I would
agree.....but a drivetrain loss
that is a DIRECT function of the power generated......doesn't compute
right.

I know as a fact that in a TTZ, the drivetrains loss is about 20% of the
STOCK horsepower (300 HP), but stays the same when you increase the power
output up to 550 HP....and I don't really see WHY my Stealth, even if it's
an AWD, should be different.

Any ideas ??

Henri
<

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:12:33 -0400
From: "Scotty" <omnitech@fast.net>
Subject: Team3S: 92 RT, Just will not turn over

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I got a problem, I've had my 92 RT Twinturbo in storage for at least 6 =
months. Took it off the road for insurance reasons. But here the =
problem. I keep the battery connected for a few months while it was in =
storage. I went to start it up one day and the Battery was dead. So I =
charged the battery, checked it with a Battery load tester and it was =
fine. But when I go to start the car, nothing. But all the Accessories =
work fine. I did notice that the battery cable wires were a little =
corroded. I cleaned the Battery terminals and connectors, but the car =
still will not crank over. Any ideas on what to do?

Mike Scott
92 RT TT
omnitech@fast.net

- ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01BEEE29.F1FFDE20
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3401" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I got a problem, I've had my 92 RT =
Twinturbo in=20
storage for at least 6 months. Took it off the road for insurance =
reasons. But=20
here the problem. I keep the battery connected for a few months while it =
was in=20
storage. I went to start it up one day and the Battery was dead. So I =
charged=20
the battery, checked it with a Battery load tester and it was fine. But =
when I=20
go to start the car, nothing. But all the Accessories work fine. I did =
notice=20
that the battery cable wires were a little corroded. I cleaned the =
Battery=20
terminals and connectors, but the car still will not crank over. Any =
ideas on=20
what to do?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mike Scott</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>92 RT TT</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:omnitech@fast.net">omnitech@fast.net</A></FONT></DIV></BOD=
Y></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01BEEE29.F1FFDE20--

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:12:16 -0600
From: "Palamara, Peter" <pala@gwl.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 92 RT, Just will not turn over

Does the car click at all for the starter??? If it doesn't then do you push
in the clutch in all the way to the floor board, people starting my car has
this same problem because you actually have to floor the clutch to Inage the
starter. Just thoughts...
 

92 3000 GTO S.C.
Soon to be exactly what the plates say :)
Plates (HIPRESR)
1-800-888-gwla x4733
http://members.xoom.com/palamarap <http://members.xoom.com/palamarap

 

- -----Original Message-----
From: Scotty [mailto:omnitech@fast.net]
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 10:13 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: 92 RT, Just will not turn over


I got a problem, I've had my 92 RT Twinturbo in storage for at least 6
months. Took it off the road for insurance reasons. But here the problem. I
keep the battery connected for a few months while it was in storage. I went
to start it up one day and the Battery was dead. So I charged the battery,
checked it with a Battery load tester and it was fine. But when I go to
start the car, nothing. But all the Accessories work fine. I did notice that
the battery cable wires were a little corroded. I cleaned the Battery
terminals and connectors, but the car still will not crank over. Any ideas
on what to do?
 
Mike Scott
92 RT TT
omnitech@fast.net <mailto:omnitech@fast.net>

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:04:27 EDT
From: "Nav Moondi" <moondin@megahits.com>
Subject: Team3S: re: West Coast Gathering - Sept 24, 25, 26th.

>Starnet, it BOUNCES here (lots of those lately).  That means our ISP

Really??  That's odd.  Don't see how that would work but..

>2.  Thanks for finally letting us know about the WCG...  It's the
>first time many of us have heard of this, so it may be difficult for
>many to make plans.  But it sounds like it will be a fine array of

It's looking pretty cool. First year is always the smallest, but
hopefully it'll turn into a yearly event and start grabbing people
from far away.  That's how the East Coast Gatherings started.

>at "Team3S" (and others) had BANG'99#1 (Bay Area Northwest Gathering)
>in January here in San Francisco, and we are having BANG'99#2 in

I was there for the January one.  That was fun!  How far is Portland,
Oregon from S.F.?  Is there a hp for the BANG #2?

c ya Bob!

- -= nav =-

"West Coast Gathering homepage: http://www.megahits.com/moondin/wcg.htm"
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:21:51 -0400
From: rich shepherd <lionred@earthlink.net>
Subject: Team3S: motor swap

i was wondering what year motor you can use in a 92vr4. are the 2nd gen
motors alot of work to use. how about a 6 speed trans? and how hard is
it to use the 2nd gen headlights on a 1st gen car? is it alot of work?
just some questions iv had for awhile hope you guys can help me out.
thanks  rich
             92vr4  cincinnati area

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:27:54 -0400
From: "J. Stephen Gula" <loco3kgt@creepingdeath.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: motor swap

> i was wondering what year motor you can use in a 92vr4.

91-92. 93's got a 4 bolt main so I don't know if you can use them.


> are the 2nd gen
> motors alot of work to use.

a lot of eletrical differences.

> it to use the 2nd gen headlights on a 1st gen car? is it alot of work?

New hood, a lot of metal cutting and then probably some welding after
that. The entire front end of the car is different from the 1st gens and
2nd gens pretty much.

- --Steve "Loco3KGT" Gula
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:12:55 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: horsepower calculations

> >I don't see why the drivetrain horsepower loss is a PERCENTAGE of the POWER
> >generated by the engine.
snip
> Here the max wheel hp is 188kW with a loss of 73.5kW. Therefore engine power
> is 261.5kW and 73.5kW is a loss of 28.1%. This of course only belongs to
> peak hp. The loss difference of the cars is due to the fact that my 13G

Thanks Henri & Roger.  This is exactly the info I was looking for.  Now for
future calculations, I won't multiply wheel HP by "a factor", but instead simply
add the loss of 73.5kW ~= 98.7 HP.

- --
I feel like I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe.

Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:25:39 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Road America School in October

The Badger Bimmers BMW club is holding its annual Road America driver's
school October 15-17.

The novice class is closed out, but a few openings still exist for
intermediate and advanced drivers.

Sure wish some of you hotshoe 3000GT drivers from the Midwest would join
me. It's awfully lonely out there among the English (oops, Germans). All I
have from the family are Eclipses and Talons.

Dr Jack T, Mike and Chuck Willis, and Skully, c'mon up! RA is 4.5 miles of
black lightning, with two one-mile straights!

If you're interested, see the website at:
http://www.badgerbimmers.org/Calendar/OctoberFast/octoberfast.html

You can download an entry form, send in yer money, and we'll all kick some
BMW butt.

Those M3s should be easier to take at a horsepower track like Road America
than they were at Blackhawk Farms.

Let me know if you're going.

Rich/old poop/94 VR4



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 23:19:53 -0700
From: "Chad Beeder" <syzygy@eskimo.com>
Subject: Team3S: Followup to steering question from last week

Well, I took my car in to the dealer today for an oil change.  Also had them
put some Redline MT-90 in the transmission.  The improvement in shifting is
quite noticeable.  Still not silky smooth, but much better, and it's greatly
reduced the grinding on the synchros.

But here's the strange thing.  The steering problem I was complaining about
last week (loose steering, a bit of play in the steering wheel at highway
speeds, etc.) seems much better now too!  I didn't have them specifically
look at the steering, just asked for an oil change, so I don't know what
they could have done that would have affected this.  I guess it could have
been something as simple as tire pressure...?  Or maybe I was low on power
steering fluid or something?  Could that cause something like this?

I'll continue to keep an eye on it, at any rate.

On another note, I do need new tires soon.  Right now I'm running the stock
Michelin tires.  Can anyone recommend anything better, or should I stick
with the Michelins?

My main considerations for tires are, roughly in this order:
1. All-around performance
2. Performance in the rain (I live in Seattle, so they have to be good in
wet weather)
3. Noise level (would be nice to still be able to hear the stereo)  :-)
4. Longevity
5. Price

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Chad Beeder


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 08:41:09 -0400
From: Shawn Dewey <sdewey@dmv.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Road racing and brakes

>ABOUT THE BRAKES
>For this event, I ran Porterfield rotors and R4 race pads. We put the pads
>on prior to the event, and drove there (about  180 miles) on the pads.
<<<snip>>

>Lesson: With air ducting, I think a set of Porterfields will last an entire
>weekend. I'll have that back on by the next event at Road America in October.

<<<snip>>

>basically dead even everywhere on the track. I had some trouble getting by
>a lowly Neon, equipped with the performance package from Chrysler (brakes,
>suspension, balanced and blueprinted engine). It took me several laps to
>get by, mainly because he was actually a little faster than I was from 1-3.
>(How do they do that?) What an amazing little car!
- -------------------

Have to let you in on a secret that the race team and I have come up with
for the Porterfield Pads.
This has worked fabulously for the AWD Talon (World Challenge car ~550 HP)
with TT Stealth rotors and calipers, and on my FWD eagle talon single
piston calipers and tiny rotors :)

When you get the pads from porterfield put them on your gas grill or in the
oven,
(preferably gas grill if you ever want to eat out of your oven again, the
stench will have you doing flashbacks to the last time you came into a
corner too hot at the track and cooked the brakes).

Keep them on the gas grill cooking on high setting for approx. 1/2 hr pad
side up. Then let them cool by just turning off the grill (allows a nice
slow cool down) This pre-heat cycles the pads and they will wear MUCH MUCH
longer. Have not asked Porterfield what they think of this but I am on my
fourth or fifth race weekend with the FWD car. (BTW, They used to only last
a single weekend) The longevity after cooked is unbelievable. Braking does
not suffer at all, and with the price of porterfield pads alone it is worth
a try, you will become a believer. Cost for the front pads for the FWD car
is 139. This cooking on the grill has made race weekends slightly more
affordable!

You may also want to try the R4E compound that Porterfield makes. They take
a little longer to get heat in them but they also last longer, they are
supposed to be the endurance compound. BTW, this is the only pad we used on
the AWD Talon World Challenge car

Just try to keep the barbecue sauce off of the pads!  :)

Let me know if you have any questions on this.

This year I am racing a 1981 Mazda RX-7 in the new Spec RX-7 class for the
Washington, DC region of the SCCA. ( http://www.wdcr-scca.org/ ). I am
currently 5th in SRX-7 points, in my second year of road racing. Check out
my site for more details ( http://home.dmv.com/~sdewey/ )

Those pesky ACR neons are fast little cars, I had to run against them all
last year when I ran a 1995 Talon Esi in Showroom Stock C class. I ran
against the SOHC neon with my DOHC "neon motored" Talon because of the
weight difference between the Talon and the Neon (approx 300 lbs)

I will be racing next weekend in a Double regional at Summit Point, WV, (
http://www.summitpoint-raceway.com/ )and can always use extra spectators or
crew if you are interested. Let me know. Event runs from Friday September
3rd through Monday the 6th.


- -shawn dewey

'91 Stealth R/T nonturbo 15.426 @ 90.68 (in the happy hands of a new owner!)
'93 3000GT VR4 12.98 @ 107 mph
'91 Talon TSI AWD 13.6 @ 98.8 (the commuter car, yeah right! :)
'95 Talon ESi SCCA Race Car (SSC class #19)
'81 Mazda RX7 GSL SCCA Spec RX7 #32
http://home.dmv.com/~sdewey
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------------------------------

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