--
From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #263
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
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Team3S Digest
Saturday, August 21 1999 Volume 01 :
Number
263
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 19 Aug 1999 21:02:19 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Eibach Springs; Installation nightmare; Help!
. At the end of the
day he
> called again and said that they had worked ALL day trying to get
them
> installed, with no luck and he 'just wanted to make sure his tech
got
> paid for his time' but would "roll back" the final price. His
call
> made me "edgy" so I checked the Eibach site, which says it should
take
> 1.5hrs for the fronts, 1.3hrs for the rears, total 2.8hrs.
But I'm
> afraid to see what his final bill will be... QUESTIONS:
What have you
> guys paid to have Eibachs installed??? How much more
for
alignment?
=====================================================
The
tech doesn't sound very competent ----- I installed, in my driveway,using
a
hydraulic jack, an impact wrench and hand tools the following items in
about
6 hours. Ground control caster/camber plate, stainless steel
brake lines, paint
the calipers, GAB struts, Ground Control spring
perches, checked the camber
with a bubble gage and the toe with a couple of
aluminum straight edges.
I took the car to an alignment shop the following
day and spent two hours and
$90 setting the alignment and finding out what
range of adjustment I now have.
The rear is out of spec. [ I dropped
the car 1 1/2" ] so I have to resolve that.
Jim
Berry
PS. I lied --- I also used a drill and a pneumatic cut-off tool for
the
caster/camber
plate and a Matco 24" pry bar for those damn rear shocks .
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 Aug 1999 00:24:21 EDT
From: "Dg B" <dbretton@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Eibach Springs; Installation nightmare; Help!
Hi
Bob,
>
>enlarge the mounting holes (that being necessary to bring
the
>alignment back to spec) and I shared that with the service
mgr.
For Eibach springs, you shouldn't need to elongate the holes at all
to bring
the car back into spec. I dropped my car over 1", and NTB
managed to put
the fronts back into spec, with no
problem.
>The
>next day he called and told me there were FOUR
springs (duh) and he
>had only quoted me price for 2! I told him
that I'd gotten a price
>from a small shop in town for all 4 for $250 (+
alignment), but I used
>his dealership since they were experienced with
Stealths. I
>reluctantly gave him the OK to go ahead... At the
end of the day he
>called again and said that they had worked ALL day
trying to get them
>installed, with no luck and he 'just wanted to make
sure his tech got
>paid for his time' but would "roll back" the final
price. His call
>made me "edgy" so I checked the Eibach site, which
says it should take
>1.5hrs for the fronts, 1.3hrs for the rears, total
2.8hrs. But I'm
>afraid to see what his final bill will be...
QUESTIONS: What have you
>guys paid to have Eibachs installed??? How
much more for alignment?
Bob,
I paid $250 in labor to
have the 2 front struts replaced, the 2 rear
shocks replaced, all 4 tires
replaced, and an alignment. Clearly this was
not a dealership, *but*,
it's not that far from reality.
I have a SOHC like you, and I *know* that the
struts/shocks are easy to
replace (after doing it with the GAB/Ground
Control install).
There is simply no way that they should be charging you
more than $400,
including the alignment (and a car
wash!).
>
>Nightmare Part II:
>I thought I'd be
picking up the car today, but the service mgr told me
>that while removing
the eccentric bolt that adjusts the lower control
>arm it broke off!
<snip>
QUESTIONS: Has anyone else
>had experience with
these bolts being a problem? Any suggestions?
I don't know exactly
which bolt this is. However, I do know that the rear
camber adjustment
bolt on our 3/S cars tends to be "sticky", and can
sometimes not come
free.
However, it was not "over"-torquing that caused the bolt to break, but
rather, some airhead who screwed up in the shop.
I will lay a dollar to a
doughnut that they broke the bolt because
they were careless.
My
advice: Do not pay any bill above $400.
When you get there, ask them to
leave the car up on a lift, and inspect
their work.
Make sure they don't
do something stupid, like install the springs upside
down.
Check to make
sure that all of the bushings and bump stops are installed,
especially in
the REAR! I think there are 3 different rubber bushings/bump
stops on
each shock in the rear on your car. If they did not install all of
them and/or not in the right order, all kinds of things can happen,
like:
- one side has greater stroke than the other
(tilting)
- the shock may bottom out
- the shock
could poke out of the top and rip your plastic
covers
in the trunk
Hope this
helps!
Regards,
Dennis
_______________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 Aug 1999 01:04:40 -0400
From: "J. Stephen Gula" <loco3kgt@creepingdeath.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Ground Control Group Purchase
Hey guys,
for those of you not
scared by Bob's recent fiasco w/ the Eibach
springs, I've been told that we
can get in on the DSM's Ground Control
Group Discount for the entire unit and
we get discounts on the camber
plates. The discount is 20%-25% (i'll be told
actual amount tomorrow,
but alteast 20%). If you want in on this please email
ME (
loco3kgt@creepingdeath.com ).. all
posts to the list regarding getting
in on the discount will be ignored... so
unless it's a technical
question, don't ask it
:) ..... the following was
grabbed from
the site that kept track of those interested in on the DSM GP :
"P.S. Please don't e-mail me with questions like "how much faster
will
this make my car" or "what will this do for me." You are
not
ready for coil overs if you are asking those types of questions.
:)"
that was Dasher's lil note, and I'm ditto on that. Needless to say,
I
don't know much of anything about this product other than I'm
buying
it.. So going price right now for the $400 unit is roughly
$300-$320....
the more people, the greater the chances at getting a higher
discount.
Dasher called the GC people and the group purchase has already
been
agreed on considering the large number of DSMers in on the deal plus
a
3000GT owner (me)... so if you're interested, email me and I'll
contact
Dasher.... the discount ends next Wednesday (the 25th) in hopes
of
everything being paid for/shipped by the 30TH... so anyone
intested
email loco3kgt@creepingdeath.com
and tell me _immediately_.. however,
only email me if you are SERIOUS... I
don't want to tell Dash I've got 5
buyers to have only 3 pay... that doesn't
make me happy. You can
research the Ground Control stuff at http://www.ground-control.com
.....
So lets review what we know :
1) Group discount on
Ground Control units.. normally $400 now at about
$300-$320
2) Don't ask
me anything technical about these parts. I simply don't
know anything
about'em other than whats stated above
3) If you ain't serious, don't bother
emailing me unless you can be
influenced to buy.
- --Steve
"Loco3KGT" Gula
PS... bob.. rich... if this email doesn't make it due
to my
incompetency... forward it please.... and then tell me what the prob
was
with...
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 19 Aug 1999 23:01:07 -0700
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Eibach Springs; Installation nightmare; Help!
Bob Forrest
wrote:
> alignment back to spec) and I shared that with the service
mgr. The
> next day he called and told me there were FOUR springs
(duh) and he
> had only quoted me price for 2! I told him that I'd
gotten a price
> from a small shop in town for all 4 for $250 (+
alignment), but I used
So he charged you a total of $760 +
alignment?! It sounds like
he seriously took you for a ride. Even
$380 sounds expensive
for doing all four. Like Jim Berry, it took me
about 5 hours total
to swap all four springs (I went to H&R). I was
using a friend's
air tools and I rented a widow-maker spring
compressor. It was
my first time doing the job, and I was taking me
sweet time with
everything. The next time I did springs it took me
significantly less
time to do them. I'm surprised it would take supposed
Stealth
"specialists" all day to do the job, especially for such a
price.
My alignment was done by a local shop for $70, and it was
not
necessary to enlarge any mounting holes in order to bring
the
alignment back to spec. The H&R's drop about the same
amount
as the Eibachs.
> I thought I'd be picking up the car today,
but the service mgr told me
> that while removing the eccentric bolt that
adjusts the lower control
> arm it broke off!
Hmmm... These
bolts were not a problem for me, and they certainly
shouldn't have been a
problem for professionals, unless of course
they were being careless with
their air tools.
>He claimed that there was 'extra
undercoating'
>and that the bolt had been 'over-torqued'.
A
Mitsubishi dealership service center broke two of my front wheel
studs while
changing my clutch, and they told me the EXACT same
thing. I knew they
were lying because I had hand-torqued the bolts
myself, but I was forced to
pay them because my car was at their
mercy until I picked it up (it's kind of
bad to drive your car away with
only 3 front wheel studs). It makes me
angry again just to think about
it, and I really wished I had done the clutch
myself.
If I were you, after paying this guy I would hand him a banana
and
say "this is for you and your monkey knowledge and your
monkey
business with its monkey mechanics and their monkey antics."
Then
I would say "THIS is you," and tickle my armpits and do my
best
monkey noises, just to drive the point home.
Or something like
that,
- --Errin Humphrey
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 Aug 1999 08:30:30 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mikael_=C5kesson?=
<vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Eibach Springs; Installation nightmare; Help!
Bob wrote:
the
service mgr told me that while removing the eccentric bolt that adjusts the
lower control arm it broke off!
QUESTIONS: Has anyone else had
experience with these bolts being a problem?
Hi
I actually
did the same thing last sunday! One of the eccentrics snapped right off. Mine
broke on the "nut" side, my suggestion is to check on witch side the bolt broke,
if it broke on the side with the eccentric washer then they probably used a big
wrench on the wrong side of the bolt. And if that's the case then they have done
wrong and should pay for the whole thing.
A friend and I changed springs
on two VR-4's this weekend and it shall not take more than two houers even if
you never have worked on a VR-4 before. (if you have the right
tools)
/Mikael Akesson http://www.3000gt.nu
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 Aug 1999 08:58:02 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Ground Control Group Purchase
What's going here ??
The GC
GP for the DSM people (and we) is over since some weeks and there
isn't a
demand right now. Even more , I haven't received any springs yet !!!
There
have been some problems with people and I'm still waiting for the
stuff.
Mikael got them this week but I haven't heard anything from them. As
I called
GC they said to check this out and calling me back... for sure
nobody called
me !
Good luck for everybody... I'm not happy at the moment
!
Roger
93'3000GT TT
> for those of you not scared by Bob's
recent fiasco w/ the Eibach
>springs, I've been told that we can get in on
the DSM's Ground Control
>Group Discount for the entire unit and we get
discounts on the camber
>plates. The discount is 20%-25% (i'll be told
actual amount tomorrow,
>but alteast 20%). If you want in on this please
email ME (
<snip>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 Aug 1999 00:33:13 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Eibach Springs; Installation nightmare; Help!
- -----Original
Message-----From: Errin Humphrey
<errin@u.washington.edu>
>Bob
Forrest wrote:
>> alignment back to spec) and I shared that with the
service mgr.
The
>> next day he called and told me there were FOUR
springs (duh) and he
>> had only quoted me price for 2! I told
him that I'd gotten a price
>> from a small shop in town for all 4 for
$250 (+ alignment), but I
used
>
>So he charged you a total of
$760 + alignment?! It sounds like
>he seriously took you for a
ride. Even $380 sounds expensive
>for doing all four. Like Jim
Berry, it took me about 5 hours total
>to swap all four springs (I went to
H&R). I was using a friend's
>air tools and I rented a
widow-maker spring compressor. It was
>my first time doing the job,
and I was taking me sweet time with
>everything. The next time I did
springs it took me significantly
less
>time to do them. I'm surprised
it would take supposed Stealth
>"specialists" all day to do the job,
especially for such a price.
I haven't seen the bill yet... I
pick up the car in the morning,
assuming they got a replacement bolt for the
one they trashed. The
$380 was an estimate for the front springs and an
alignment, and I get
a 10% Team3S discount, or about $340 total. But I
thought that was
high even for ALL FOUR! I had an estimate in town from
another shop
for $250 plus alignment (I assumed $65), so my thinking was that
it
was only $25 more to use the guys who (theoretically) know my car.
If
I estimate that $300 was the install part for 2, then $500 for 4
would
be logical, and $80 for alignment is $580... Even with the Team3S
10%
discount, that's still over $500, which is pure extortion,
ESPECIALLY
if they try to bang me for additional $$$ for the bolt they
broke...
>My alignment was done by a local shop for $70, and it was
not
>necessary to enlarge any mounting holes in order to bring
the
>alignment back to spec. The H&R's drop about the same
amount
>as the Eibachs.
I've heard it both ways from guys on
the list, and it appears that a
number of them have had the problem mostly on
the rears-- I wouldn't
mind -.1 or -.2 camber, but -1.0 (one guy's
experience) is way off. I
won't know until I get there in the
AM.
>> I thought I'd be picking up the car today, but the service
mgr told
me
>> that while removing the eccentric bolt that adjusts
the lower
control
>> arm it broke off!
>
>Hmmm...
These bolts were not a problem for me, and they certainly
>shouldn't have
been a problem for professionals, unless of course
>they were being
careless with their air tools.
If I'm paying for expertise, there's
no excuse for breaking off a bolt
on a car with 20k miles, that has been kept
in a garage in a city
where it rarely rains. It should be equivalent to
removing a bolt on
a 2 year old car-- neither rusted nor corroded. A
piece of cake for a
pro...
>>He claimed that there was 'extra
undercoating'
>>and that the bolt had been
'over-torqued'.
>
>A Mitsubishi dealership service center broke two
of my front wheel
>studs while changing my clutch, and they told me the
EXACT same
>thing. I knew they were lying because I had hand-torqued
the bolts
>myself, but I was forced to pay them because my car was at
their
>mercy until I picked it up (it's kind of bad to drive your car
away
with
>only 3 front wheel studs). It makes me angry again
just to think
about
>it, and I really wished I had done the clutch
myself.
I feel the same way... Next time I have to do something
like this,
I'm goin to do it myself. I've got all the tools and a big
old
fork-lift out back to jack the car up-- I'll buy a spring
compressor
and a sixpack and just do it right the first time.
-
-:-
Well all you guys who have shared your experiences have given me
lots
of ammo to bring with me in the morning. I'm going to have
'chapter
and verse' about what things should cost when I go into
the
dealership...
I won't be able to post back how I made out until
Monday, since I'm
leaving for the weekend as soon as I pick up my car, but
I'll let you
all know the final tally...
Thanks so much for all the
helpful input!
Best,
Forrest
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 Aug 1999 01:31:04 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Eibach Springs; Installation nightmare; Help!
- -----Original
Message-----From: Jim Berry <fastmax@home.com>
-
---------snip----------
>> afraid to see what his final bill will
be... QUESTIONS: What have
you
>> guys paid to have Eibachs
installed??? How much more
for
alignment?
>=====================================================
>The
tech doesn't sound very competent ----- I installed, in
my
driveway,using
>a hydraulic jack, an impact wrench and hand tools
the following items
in about
>6 hours. Ground control caster/camber
plate, stainless steel brake
lines, paint
>the calipers, GAB struts,
Ground Control spring perches, checked the
camber
>with a bubble gage
and the toe with a couple of aluminum straight
edges.
>I took the car
to an alignment shop the following day and spent two
hours and
>$90
setting the alignment and finding out what range of adjustment I
now
have.
>The rear is out of spec. [ I dropped the car 1 1/2" ] so I have
to
resolve that.
I thought the tech sounded incompetent as
well... When I worked on my
'muscle cars', doing springs was a piece of
cake-- on a lift, maybe an
hour per pair. But I'm just not familiar
with our suspensions, so I
thought maybe there was something else
involved. From what I've heard
so far, it's pretty much the same to do
our springs. But it sounds
like you also might have to go with
elongating the holes in the rear
to get back to spec, as was suggested to me
for the Eibachs. Once I
get them installed, I'm going to be right there
and watch them do the
alignment and report back... I'm just a bit
surprised that with all
the guys on the list with Eibachs, that more of them
didn't mention
problems getting the alignment correct... Either their
installers
didn't mention it, or they're driving around with squat
cambered
rears.
Thanks for the great
feedback!
Best,
Forrest
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 Aug 1999 07:19:10 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Re: Eibach Springs; Installation nightmare; Help!
- -----Original
Message-----From: Ron Thompson <rtetetet@earthlink.net>
>The
time sound right for install that you got from the site, and at
>$52 / hr.
that would be $160 plus four wheel alignment at about $60
>and suspension
mods at 2 hrs. add $110. Total $340. I bought mine
from
>my guy and he
put them in for $100.
Change $52 to $87.50, (since I live in the land
of 16-yr-old Silicon
Valley millionaire C-programmers), and the total is
around $500... I
can live with that-- I'm just not prepared to
pay for an internship
on top of that while some chucko looks at a Stealth for
the first
time...
>Boy Howdy, that's a 19 mm bolt! I heard them
strip them, but break
>it??? Well yeah, if you over tighten it. They could
have stripped the
>head that has the eccentric, it's a little short on the
head depth,
>and had to cut it off. Their problem either way. It doesn't
sound
like
>the technician is very slick. I wouldn't pay for the
inexperience of
>the guy. You know they bill you for what the shop manual
says it will
>take to do a certain job. If they run over it's their fault.
If they
>under cut it, they don't reduce the price to you. I'd stand hard
on
>paying more than $350, and that is still high.
I'm not sure
anymore what he said about the kind of damage to the
bolt, but you'd better
believe I'm gonna take a good look at it. I
think he said they broke
it, but I could be wrong; I was more
concerned about them replacing the bolt
and me getting the car back in
time to leave SF today for a long Birthday
weekend for ET (my SO). By
SF prices, if I can get out of there for
under $500, I'll chalk it up
to experience and think hard about going back
there. The one thing
I've got going is that they KNOW about Team3S and
that 450 other folks
are going to hear about their fairness (or lack of
same)...
Thanks again for all the great
input!
Best,
F
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 Aug 1999 07:56:59 -0700
From: "Chad Beeder" <syzygy@eskimo.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Questions about a steering problem
Hello,
I'm new to the
list. Hi everybody!
I have some questions about a few problems I
seem to be having on my '93
VR4. I think these symptoms, may be
related, but I'm hoping that someone
here may be able to tell me for
sure.
1. The steering seems to be a little bit loose and not as accurate
as it
used to be. (I haven't had the car that long, so maybe this is
just my
imagination, but it seems this way to me.) Hitting bumps in the
road will
sometimes tend to jerk the steering wheel around quite a
bit.
2. The car tends to pull slightly to the left. (I have checked
the tire
pressures and they seem OK.)
3. I work in a building which
has speed bumps in the parking lot.
Generally, when coming into or leaving
the parking lot, I'll hear a sort of
clunking sound when I hit the first
speed bump with the front tires.
Subsequent speed bumps don't produce this
noise.
Any thoughts as to what this might be? I saw something on
the 3SI page
about loose tie rod ends producing similar problems; is this the
most likely
culprit, or given these symptoms are there other things it could
be? (I'm
not very knowledgeable about the mechanics of cars and to be
frank, I don't
even have a clear understanding of what tie rod ends are,
other than they
have something to do with the steering
mechanism.)
I've had the car for about two months (it has about 70,000
miles on it) and
it is looking like it won't be cheap to get it in top
condition and keep it
that way (I also have some slight problems with the
synchros) but I
definitely love it anyway! These are beautiful cars and
it is great to
finally have my dream car.
:-)
Thanks,
Chad
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:28:13 CDT
From: "Curt Gendron" <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: BOV thoughts
Hey everyone,
I've been debating for awhile
now as to which blow off valve to buy. I'm
still leaning towards a 1g
DSM BOV. I've heard a lot of stories about
people with aftermarket
ones (Blitz, HKS, Apexi, GReddy) that get a
stumbling or other problems
between shifts during daily driving.
Roger mentioned that ones with twin
chambers shouldn't have this problem.
Although he admits he has some
problems with his BOV. I'd like to hear from
some other people.
Who else has comments about their aftermarket
BOV??
Thanks,
Curt,
95 R/T TT --> 13.11 @ 105.9 mph
96 GSX
--> 14.49 @ 92.9 mph
and author of Minnesota 3/S at: http://www.mn3s.org
_______________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:12:03 -0700
From: Peg A Gagne <pagagne-mn@worldnet.att.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Questions about a steering problem
Chad Beeder wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm new to the list. Hi
everybody!
>
> I have some questions about a few problems I seem to
be having on my '93
> VR4. I think these symptoms, may be related,
but I'm hoping that someone
> here may be able to tell me for
sure.
>
> 1. The steering seems to be a little bit loose and not as
accurate as it
> used to be. (I haven't had the car that long, so
maybe this is just my
> imagination, but it seems this way to me.)
Hitting bumps in the road will
> sometimes tend to jerk the steering wheel
around quite a bit.
>
> 2. The car tends to pull slightly to the
left. (I have checked the tire
> pressures and they seem
OK.)
>
> 3. I work in a building which has speed bumps in the
parking lot.
> Generally, when coming into or leaving the parking lot,
I'll hear a sort of
> clunking sound when I hit the first speed bump with
the front tires.
> Subsequent speed bumps don't produce this
noise.
>
> Any thoughts as to what this might be? I saw
something on the 3SI page
> about loose tie rod ends producing similar
problems; is this the most likely
> culprit, or given these symptoms are
there other things it could be? (I'm
> not very knowledgeable about
the mechanics of cars and to be frank, I don't
> even have a clear
understanding of what tie rod ends are, other than they
> have something
to do with the steering mechanism.)
>
> I've had the car for about
two months (it has about 70,000 miles on it) and
> it is looking like it
won't be cheap to get it in top condition and keep it
> that way (I also
have some slight problems with the synchros) but I
> definitely love it
anyway! These are beautiful cars and it is great to
> finally have
my dream car. :-)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chad
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
Chad
When
I bought my 94 VR4 in April I had the same problem with the
steering.
All I had to do was buy new tires & the car now steers like
a
dream-problem gone.
As far as the clunk going over speed
bumps, I'm anxious to hear other
replies as I have the same thing and only
28K on my car.
Peg Green 94 VR4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:04:52 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Questions about a steering problem
- -----Original
Message-----From: Chad Beeder <syzygy@eskimo.com>
-
---------snip-------
>1. The steering seems to be a little bit loose and
not as accurate as
it
>used to be. (I haven't had the car that
long, so maybe this is just
my
>imagination, but it seems this way to
me.) Hitting bumps in the road
will
>sometimes tend to jerk the
steering wheel around quite a bit.
I'll leave your tie-rod scenario to
others who know more about it than
I do, but here's a possible explanation
about your car responding
strongly to bumps and cracks in the road...
If the car has
aftermarket wide(r) tires (especially directionals), different
than
stock, the car may have a tendency to 'track' (pull to one side)
in
road cracks and jump right or left when hitting a bump. This is
a
known fact, and one which some of us have alleviated somewhat by
going
with higher than normal tire inflations. I have wide
directional
performance tires on my car (and had a similar problem to yours),
and
I tried varying the inflation at the suggestion of a racer...
It
solved the 'tracking' problem (and the problem of understeer,
too)---
Stock inflation (on the door jamb) was 32 front, 29 rear. I
drove the
car at various inflations all the way up to 50 lbs, by 3 lb
increments
(F/R): 35/32, 38/35, 41/38, 44/41, 47/44, 50/47..., and
found that
the car handled best in the MIDDLE of that range. (There's
also a
different dynamic on the FWD than on your AWD car, which calls for a
6
lb differential between Front and Rear). After testing for a while,
I
finally settled on 43/37 for my 'normal' setting. If I'm just
about
town, I use a softer 40/34, and on long trips or in the rain, I
use
46/40. Although there are plenty of folks who will debate
this
(mainly because you WILL shorten the life of the tires), you
can
definitely FEEL when your car is handling best, and that isn't
always
the recommended 'comfort' setting suggested on the door
jamb.
Handling is more important to me than tire economy, so I prefer
these
higher PSI's, but you may have different priorities... But you
owe it
to yourself to try a few other settings and see if it makes your
car
'feel' more responsive and less at the whim of road imperfections.
And
you can always go back to the stock inflations...
BTW, I think the other
"syzygy" screen name on the list (Nissa and her
husband, syzygy@webzone.net) use inflations above
stock, too, and she
drives (and races) a car like yours. You might want
to ask her what
tires and settings she uses on the street...
Email me
privately and let me know how you made
out.
Best,
Forrest
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:48:26 -600
From: syzygy@webzone.net
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Questions about a steering problem
>-----Original Message-----From:
Chad Beeder <syzygy@eskimo.com>
>---------snip-------
>>1.
The steering seems to be a little bit loose and not as accurate as
>>it
used to be. (I haven't had the car that long, so maybe this is
just
>>my imagination, but it seems this way to me.) Hitting
bumps in the road
>>will sometimes tend to jerk the steering wheel
around quite a bit.
>
Bob Forrest wrote:
>BTW, I think
the other "syzygy" screen name on the list (Nissa and her
>husband, syzygy@webzone.net) use inflations above
stock, too, and she
>drives (and races) a car like yours. You might
want to ask her what
>tires and settings she uses on the
street...
Thanks for the recommendation Bob! Us "syzygy's" tend to have
good taste in
cars, what can I say? *wink*
I hate to admit it but I
have not paid too much attention to the tire pressure
on my street tires.
I've only had them for 3 months and they are performing
very well on
suggested tire pressures (suggested by the tire maker - not the
car door.)
I will tell you this... my first 3/S was an Stealth RT/TT. It came with
Dunlop
SP8000s - OLD ones. It was very 'skittish' and jumped all over the
road. When
I replaced them with a set of Michelon (sp??) Pilots and alot of
the skittishness
went away.
On my VR-4 it came with 18x8.5 wheels
(stock ones). And had Yokahama tires...
the Yoks were good and only slightly
skittish. After my car was stolen and recovered
we got the 18x9's with Toyo
Proxies T-1s. They are also just slightly skittish.
But not so bad that I
have even messed with tire pressures on it. The VR-4 is
also, literally,
impossible to align. It was apparently in a wreck at some time.
I took it to
a shop that straightened the frame as well as they could. It still
pulls just
SLIGHTLY to the right.
You may want to take your car in for an alignment
and verify it wasn't wrecked.
Or try changing tires.. that may help alot. I
have never heard the clunk on
first speed bump thing before. But, I did do
half of a race with the right sway
bar disconnected (the bolt fell out) which
resulted in a clunk whenever I turned
the wheel far left. I put in the bolt
and it worked great.
Race tire pressures vary depending on the course and
weather more than anything
else. We usually running in some combination
between 32 and 50 pounds on Khumo
Victor Racer tires (with 17x8.5 wheels).
There is no hard and fast rule. Major
thing to do in that environment is mark
the sides of your tires and do a run.
If your tires roll you want to add more
pressure. If they don't get far enough
to the edge, let some out... We do
tend to run higher pressure in front than
back due to the weight
distribution.
I hope all that helps!
Nissa
95
VR-4
Don't mess in the affairs of dragons.
For you are crunchy and
go good with ketchup.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:50:25 -0400
From: Randy MacAulay <rmacaulay@mediaone.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Castrol Syntec 5-50
Hi,
I was wondering if anyone out there had any
experience (good or bad)
with Castrol Syntec 5w50. I'm about to change
the oil in my car and I
can get a great deal on this but I don't want to use
it just cuz' it's
relatively inexpensive.
Any
feedback would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
Randy
'94
VR4
Greddy Profec 'A'
misc. other
mods.
3si #0053
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:39:03 -0700
From: "Dave Allison" <dallison@siebel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: HKS SSBV problems
Heya!
I've gone through my archives of
both lists and unfortunately they
don't seem to go far enough
back.
I'm looking for any information anyone may have regarding
the
adjustment of the screw in the back of the HKS SSBV.
A few months
back I found that the SSBV was only working
intermittently and it has only
gotten progressively worse. It's now to the
point where the SSBV does not
work at all! I can hear the compressor surge
and it makes me wince to imagine
what the turbo compressor blades are
withstanding as I lift the
throttle.
Am I correct in assuming this is an adjustment
problem?
I notice there are 2 screws located above and below each other
on
the same bolt on the SSBV. I'm wondering if the nut nearest the
SSBV
housing is supposed to be tightened down and not adjusted at all.
Perhaps
the farthest nut is the one that is to be adjusted? I don't have
any
directions for the unit and although HKS may be doing wonders for
the
graphic presentation of their website... the content of their website
simply
sucks. I could find no info whatsoever?
HELP!
Dave
Allison
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:27:11 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Castrol Syntec 5-50
I run Castrol RS Racing oil 5W-60 since last
year. It's known as the best oil
for "hot" running cars although on our cars
the oil is not getting as hot as in
a Porsche or a Supra TT.
I do have
nothing to say but good to this stuff. Mitsu is recomending Castrol
for the
cars here and I always had it in the car.
In winter I use 0W-30 for the
extra protection.
> I was wondering if anyone
out there had any experience (good or bad)
> with Castrol Syntec
5w50. I'm about to change the oil in my car and I
> can get a great
deal on this but I don't want to use it just cuz' it's
> relatively
inexpensive.
Inexpensive ? Here it is one of the most expensive juice
available ($17 a liter)
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:57:45 -0500
From: Wayne Hietala <wala@hypertech-inc.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Castrol Syntec 5-50
Oh yes, the good ol' days in Japan where
Castrol RS was available. I used
it in my Motorcycle, great stuff, too bad it
was $10-15 a quart.(but worth
it when the capacity is 2 qts)
At 03:27 PM 8/20/99 , R.G. wrote:
>I run Castrol RS Racing oil
5W-60 since last year. It's known as the best oil
>for "hot" running cars
although on our cars the oil is not getting as hot
as in
>a Porsche or
a Supra TT.
>
>I do have nothing to say but good to this stuff.
Mitsu is recomending Castrol
>for the cars here and I always had it in the
car.
>
>In winter I use 0W-30 for the extra
protection.
>
>> I was wondering if
anyone out there had any experience (good or bad)
>> with Castrol
Syntec 5w50. I'm about to change the oil in my car and I
>> can
get a great deal on this but I don't want to use it just cuz' it's
>>
relatively inexpensive.
>
>Inexpensive ? Here it is one of the most
expensive juice available ($17 a
>liter)
>
>Roger
>93'3000GT TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:50:17 -0700
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Castrol Syntec 5-50
Randy...
I used Castrol Syntec
5-50 for two years in my VR4. I've been pleased with
it's performance,
although I felt the low end might be a little too low for
our moderate
climate, so I changed to Mobil 1 10-50 with the last change
(after a motor
flush). Results have not been significantly different,
perhaps one minor
division increase in meter reading at idle.
Looking
forward...Chris
- -----Original Message-----
From: Randy MacAulay [mailto:rmacaulay@mediaone.net]
Sent:
Friday, August 20, 1999 10:50 AM
To: Team3S
Subject: Team3S: Castrol
Syntec 5-50
Hi, I was wondering if anyone out there had any experience (good
or bad)
with Castrol Syntec 5w50. I'm about to change the oil in my car
and I
can get a great deal on this but I don't want to use it just cuz'
it's
relatively inexpensive.
Any feedback would be
greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
Randy
'94 VR4
Greddy Profec
'A'
misc. other mods.
3si
#0053
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:26:10 EDT
From: "Dg B" <dbretton@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: MiniMopar Oil Filter Study Page -Resurrected!-
Hello
all,
I noticed that the minimopar site, which contained all
that good info on
a comparison on the physical characteristics of oil
filters, had been taken
down for legal reasons.
Well, resourceful
'ole me had duped the entire page (minus a couple of
links) locally on my
hard drive.
I have popped up a replica of the minimopar site on my web
page.
However, I have made no links to it off of my main page, in the hopes
of
keeping the legal eagles (and search engines) at bay.
If you
haven't checked out the site, you can see it here:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/6637/oilfilterstudy.htm
If
you would like a copy of the site, I have zipped it, and would be happy
to
send it to you. (about 770k, zipped)
Hope that
helps!
Regards,
Dennis
_______________________________________________________________
Get
Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:13:25 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Corner weights for 3000 VR4
Have any of the road racers out there
actually measured the corner weights
for the 3000s?
I'm going to be
purchasing a coil over setup (not sure which one yet) and am
looking for a
point of reference.
Please don't reply telling me what you have, or what
someone told you to
get.(springs) I only want actual
numbers.
Thanks,
Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:42:17 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Adventures in braking, cont'd
We installed Porterfield R4
race pads in the VR4 earlier this week, in
preparation for running at
Blackhawk Farms this weekend. Last night, I
bedded in the brakes.
Instructions say to keep stopping until the brakes
fade, so I continually ran
it up to 80, banged on the brakes, brought it
down to 20 mph or so, then off
we went again. Problem was, the brakes would
not fade. After about 10 cycles,
I thought I oughta take a look, so I
stopped, got out, and saw that they were
on fire! Flames were literally
coming out of the spokes!
Hoo,
boy! I jumped back in, got 'er going again to put out the flames,
then
cruised around the back roads until everything cooled off and parked it
for
the night.
I called Porterfield today to ask if I had done a
no-no, and they said
everything was normal, go have fun.
We'll see. I
guess the brakes not fading after 10 big stops is a GOOD
sign,
eh?
Track report on Monday.
Rich/old poop/94 VR4/Somebody
stop me!
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:55:14 -0500
From: "Oskar" <swede@pclink.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
HKS SSBV problems
What you're seeing on your SSBV is a bolt and locking
nut. Adjustments are
made by loosening the locking nut (closest to the
SSBV), turning the
adjustment bolt (the bolt itself). Once you have
made your adjustments you
tighten down the locking nut and voila you're
done.
Oskar
'95 R/T TT
>
> I notice there are 2
screws located above and below each other on
>the same bolt on the SSBV.
I'm wondering if the nut nearest the SSBV
>housing is supposed to be
tightened down and not adjusted at all. Perhaps
>the farthest nut is the
one that is to be adjusted? I don't have any
>directions for the unit and
although HKS may be doing wonders for the
>graphic presentation of their
website... the content of their website
simply
>sucks. I could find no
info whatsoever?
>
>HELP!
>
>
>Dave
Allison
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:43:46 -0700
From: David Margrave <davidma@premier1.net>
Subject:
Team3S: marvel mystery oil analysis
Sometimes I get my used motor oil
analyzed by a lab. I asked them if
they'd ever analyzed marvel mystery
oil, and they said they hadn't but
offered to do it for free. So I sent
off a small sample of new marvel
mystery oil, wanting to find out just what's
inside it before I put it
inside my car (some folks have recommended it as a
possible fix for the
clacking valves)
Here's a rough summary of the
results. By the way, the lab I use is
Blackstone labs, at http://www.blackstone-labs.com.
I asked them to
create a new equipment category for the twin turbocharged
3.0L
mitsubishi engine. I'm not sure if this is of interest to y'all,
but I
like to get hard quantitative data wherever possible, i.e. did that
K&N
I just installed let a lot more crud into the engine? etc.
the
test checks for a lot more elements than I list here, I only list
the ones
that had non-zero
values:
element
parts per million
-
-------------------------------------
iron
1
copper
1
silicon
1
phosphorous
576
zinc
1
sustained viscosity @210 deg. F: 35.3
Flashpoint: 195 deg.
F
- - compare these to 57-72 viscosity and 375 deg F. flashpoint for
a
10W/30 - this is pretty light stuff.
Dave
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:54:54 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
BOV thoughts
I have a Blitz SSBOV and have experienced none of the
stumbling or
hesitation problems supposedly attributed to vent-to-atmospehere
BOVs.
I suspect the problem has more to do with leakage of the BOV than
where it
is vented. If you think about it, the BOV typically operates
when the
throttle is closing. The ECM shouldn't care too much about any
mixture at
this point. At part throttle a properly operating BOV will
be thoroughly
closed. The only plausible explanation I can concoct is
leakage which is of
course unmetered air and therefore may throw off the
'puter.
According to a few manufacturers of pricey high end BOVs, mass
produced BOVs
have less than perfect production tolerances which can lead to
leakage
between the cyclinder and bore of the BOV under pressure. Makes
sense to
me.
Maybe I got lucky and got one that doesn't leak as others
with Blitz and HKS
and whatever BOVs have reported of the stumbling
problem. Yet others report
no such
trouble.
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
Hey everyone,
>
> I've been debating for awhile now as to which blow
off valve to buy. I'm
> still leaning towards a 1g DSM BOV.
I've heard a lot of stories about
> people with aftermarket ones (Blitz,
HKS, Apexi, GReddy) that get a
> stumbling or other problems between
shifts during daily driving.
>
> Roger mentioned that ones with twin
chambers shouldn't have this
> problem.
> Although he admits he has
some problems with his BOV. I'd like
> to hear from
> some
other people. Who else has comments about their aftermarket
BOV??
>
> Thanks,
> Curt,
> 95 R/T TT --> 13.11 @
105.9 mph
> 96 GSX --> 14.49 @ 92.9 mph
> and author of Minnesota
3/S at: http://www.mn3s.org
>
>
>
_______________________________________________________________
> Get Free
Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
> For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:58:09 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
HKS SSBV problems
It could be dirty. Grit and oil and parts of
small animals etc may get in
there occasionally. The clearance between
the cylinder and the bore of the
BOV is miniscule. If it is dirty it
may exhibit the problem you report.
Might be worth a disassembly and cleaning
with a non-residue forming
solvent, then a careful adjustment after it is
back together. While you're
in there check the health of the
spring.
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
>
Heya!
>
> I've gone through my archives of both lists and
unfortunately they
> don't seem to go far enough back.
>
> I'm
looking for any information anyone may have regarding the
> adjustment of
the screw in the back of the HKS SSBV.
>
> A few months back I found
that the SSBV was only working
> intermittently and it has only gotten
progressively worse. It's now to the
> point where the SSBV does not work
at all! I can hear the compressor surge
> and it makes me wince to imagine
what the turbo compressor blades are
> withstanding as I lift the
throttle.
>
> Am I correct in assuming this is an adjustment
problem?
>
> I notice there are 2 screws located above and below
each other on
> the same bolt on the SSBV. I'm wondering if the nut
nearest the SSBV
> housing is supposed to be tightened down and not
adjusted at all. Perhaps
> the farthest nut is the one that is to be
adjusted? I don't have any
> directions for the unit and although HKS may
be doing wonders for the
> graphic presentation of their website... the
content of their
> website simply
> sucks. I could find no info
whatsoever?
>
> HELP!
>
>
> Dave
Allison
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 21 Aug 1999 14:16:19 -0400
From: "Accelerated Accessories" <meyer2@erols.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Split Second Fuel Controller
This is a multi-part message in MIME
format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEEBDF.BD699440
Content-Type:
text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable
All:
I just finished installing my Split Second
ARC2 Fuel controller and new =
fuel injectors. I have had some
experiance with the HKS VPC/GCC setup =
as well as the Apexi AFC and neither
of these devices have impressed me =
nearly as much as the ARC 2. The
main difference between the VPC and =
ARC 2 is that the VPC Converts the
air/fuel system to a speed density =
setup which involves intercepting
signals to the ECU, altering them and =
then turning them back into somthing
that the ECU can understand. The =
ARC 2, on the other hand, uses a MAF
sensor which replaces the factory =
Karman Vortex air flow meter. By
not having to hack/convert signals, =
the ARC2 setup offers superior
drivability over VPC cars. Not to =
mention the ease of tuning that is
involved in getting the ARC 2 up and =
running. The Split Second ARC2
kit includes a 3.5 MAF, Large K&N =
filter, ARC2 control unit, wiring
harness, ARM 1 air/fuel ratio meter, =
all hardware, and complete wiring
diagram (including pin out and color =
coding). The entire install can
be completed in about an hour. More =
tech info is available at www.splitsec.com. From now on, I will
be =
recommending these fuel controllers over the VPC. If anybody is
=
interested in purchasing the ARC2 give me a call at 301-393-8800 or
=
email meyer2@erols.com=20
Matt
www.AcceleratedAccessories.com
-
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEEBDF.BD699440
Content-Type:
text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3
HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META
content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1
=
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"'
name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000
size=3D2>All:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D2>I just finished installing my Split Second ARC2 Fuel
=
controller and new fuel injectors. I have had some experiance
with =
the HKS=20
VPC/GCC setup as well as the Apexi AFC and neither of
these devices have =
impressed me nearly as much as the ARC 2.
The main difference =
between the=20
VPC and ARC 2 is that the VPC
Converts the air/fuel system to a speed =
density=20
setup which involves
intercepting signals to the ECU, altering them and =
then=20
turning them
back into somthing that the ECU can understand. The =
ARC 2,
on=20
the other hand, uses a MAF sensor which replaces the factory Karman
=
Vortex air=20
flow meter. By not having to hack/convert
signals, the ARC2 setup =
offers=20
superior drivability over VPC
cars. Not to mention the ease of =
tuning that=20
is involved in
getting the ARC 2 up and running. The Split Second =
ARC2
kit=20
includes a 3.5 MAF, Large K&N filter, ARC2 control unit,
wiring =
harness, ARM=20
1 air/fuel ratio meter, all hardware, and
complete wiring diagram =
(including pin=20
out and color
coding). The entire install can be completed in =
about
an=20
hour. More tech info is available at
<A=20
href=3D"http://www.splitsec.com">www.splitsec.com</A>. From
now =
on, I will=20
be recommending these fuel controllers over the VPC.
If anybody is =
interested in=20
purchasing the ARC2 give me a call at
301-393-8800 or email <A=20
href=3D"mailto:meyer2@erols.com">meyer2@erols.com</A>
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D2>Matt</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000
size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.AcceleratedAccessories.com">www.AcceleratedAccessories=
.com</A></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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