--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #263
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest        Saturday, August 21 1999        Volume 01 : Number 263




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 21:02:19 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Eibach Springs; Installation nightmare; Help!

.  At the end of the day he
> called again and said that they had worked ALL day trying to get them
> installed, with no luck and he 'just wanted to make sure his tech got
> paid for his time' but would "roll back" the final price.  His call
> made me "edgy" so I checked the Eibach site, which says it should take
> 1.5hrs for the fronts, 1.3hrs for the rears, total 2.8hrs.  But I'm
> afraid to see what his final bill will be...  QUESTIONS: What have you
> guys paid to have Eibachs installed???  How much more for alignment?
=====================================================

The tech doesn't sound very competent ----- I installed, in my driveway,using
a hydraulic jack, an impact wrench and hand tools the following items in about
6 hours. Ground control caster/camber plate, stainless steel brake  lines, paint
the calipers, GAB struts, Ground Control spring perches, checked the camber
with a bubble gage and the toe with a couple of aluminum straight edges.
I took the car to an alignment shop the following day and spent two hours and
$90 setting the alignment and finding out what range of adjustment  I now have.
The rear is out of spec. [ I dropped the car 1 1/2" ] so I have to resolve that.

    Jim Berry

PS. I lied --- I also used a drill and a pneumatic cut-off tool for the caster/camber
                  plate and a Matco 24" pry bar for those damn rear shocks .


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 00:24:21 EDT
From: "Dg B" <dbretton@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Eibach Springs; Installation nightmare; Help!

Hi Bob,
>
>enlarge the mounting holes (that being necessary to bring the
>alignment back to spec) and I shared that with the service mgr.

For Eibach springs, you shouldn't need to elongate the holes at all to bring
the car back into spec.  I dropped my car over 1", and NTB managed to put
the fronts back into spec, with no problem.

>The
>next day he called and told me there were FOUR springs (duh) and he
>had only quoted me price for 2!  I told him that I'd gotten a price
>from a small shop in town for all 4 for $250 (+ alignment), but I used
>his dealership since they were experienced with Stealths.  I
>reluctantly gave him the OK to go ahead...  At the end of the day he
>called again and said that they had worked ALL day trying to get them
>installed, with no luck and he 'just wanted to make sure his tech got
>paid for his time' but would "roll back" the final price.  His call
>made me "edgy" so I checked the Eibach site, which says it should take
>1.5hrs for the fronts, 1.3hrs for the rears, total 2.8hrs.  But I'm
>afraid to see what his final bill will be...  QUESTIONS: What have you
>guys paid to have Eibachs installed???  How much more for alignment?

Bob,
   I paid $250 in labor to have the 2 front struts replaced, the 2 rear
shocks replaced, all 4 tires replaced, and an alignment.  Clearly this was
not a dealership, *but*, it's not that far from reality.
I have a SOHC like you, and I *know* that the struts/shocks are easy to
replace (after doing it with the GAB/Ground Control install).
There is simply no way that they should be charging you more than $400,
including the alignment (and a car wash!).



>
>Nightmare Part II:
>I thought I'd be picking up the car today, but the service mgr told me
>that while removing the eccentric bolt that adjusts the lower control
>arm it broke off!  <snip>

QUESTIONS:  Has anyone else
>had experience with these bolts being a problem?  Any suggestions?

I don't know exactly which bolt this is.  However, I do know that the rear
camber adjustment bolt on our 3/S cars tends to be "sticky", and can
sometimes not come free.
However, it was not "over"-torquing that caused the bolt to break, but
rather, some airhead who screwed up in the shop.
I will lay a dollar to a doughnut that they broke the bolt because
they were careless.

My advice:  Do not pay any bill above $400.
When you get there, ask them to leave the car up on a lift, and inspect
their work.
Make sure they don't do something stupid, like install the springs upside
down.
Check to make sure that all of the bushings and bump stops are installed,
especially in the REAR!  I think there are 3 different rubber bushings/bump
stops on each shock in the rear on your car.  If they did not install all of
them and/or not in the right order, all kinds of things can happen, like:
   - one side has greater stroke than the other (tilting)
   - the shock may bottom out
   - the shock could poke out of the top and rip your plastic covers
     in the trunk

Hope this helps!

Regards,
   Dennis


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 01:04:40 -0400
From: "J. Stephen Gula" <loco3kgt@creepingdeath.com>
Subject: Team3S: Ground Control Group Purchase

Hey guys,
for those of you not scared by Bob's recent fiasco w/ the Eibach
springs, I've been told that we can get in on the DSM's Ground Control
Group Discount for the entire unit and we get discounts on the camber
plates. The discount is 20%-25% (i'll be told actual amount tomorrow,
but alteast 20%). If you want in on this please email ME (
loco3kgt@creepingdeath.com ).. all posts to the list regarding getting
in on the discount will be ignored... so unless it's a technical
question, don't ask it  :)          ..... the following was grabbed from
the site that kept track of those interested in on the DSM GP :

"P.S.  Please don't e-mail me with questions like "how much faster will
this make my car" or "what will this do for me."  You are not
ready for coil overs if you are asking those types of questions. :)"

that was Dasher's lil note, and I'm ditto on that. Needless to say, I
don't know much of anything about this product other than I'm buying
it.. So going price right now for the $400 unit is roughly $300-$320....
the more people, the greater the chances at getting a higher discount.
Dasher called the GC people and the group purchase has already been
agreed on considering the large number of DSMers in on the deal plus a
3000GT owner (me)... so if you're interested, email me and I'll contact
Dasher.... the discount ends next Wednesday (the 25th) in hopes of
everything being paid for/shipped by the 30TH... so anyone intested
email  loco3kgt@creepingdeath.com   and tell me _immediately_.. however,
only email me if you are SERIOUS... I don't want to tell Dash I've got 5
buyers to have only 3 pay... that doesn't make me happy. You can
research the Ground Control stuff at   http://www.ground-control.com 
.....

So lets review what we know :

1) Group discount on Ground Control units.. normally $400 now at about
$300-$320
2) Don't ask me anything technical about these parts. I simply don't
know anything about'em other than whats stated above
3) If you ain't serious, don't bother emailing me unless you can be
influenced to buy.


- --Steve "Loco3KGT" Gula


PS... bob.. rich... if this email doesn't make it due to my
incompetency... forward it please.... and then tell me what the prob was
with...
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 23:01:07 -0700
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Eibach Springs; Installation nightmare; Help!

Bob Forrest wrote:

> alignment back to spec) and I shared that with the service mgr.  The
> next day he called and told me there were FOUR springs (duh) and he
> had only quoted me price for 2!  I told him that I'd gotten a price
> from a small shop in town for all 4 for $250 (+ alignment), but I used

So he charged you a total of $760 + alignment?!  It sounds like
he seriously took you for a ride.  Even $380 sounds expensive
for doing all four.  Like Jim Berry, it took me about 5 hours total
to swap all four springs (I went to H&R).  I was using a friend's
air tools and I rented a widow-maker spring compressor.  It was
my first time doing the job, and I was taking me sweet time with
everything.  The next time I did springs it took me significantly less
time to do them. I'm surprised it would take supposed Stealth
"specialists" all day to do the job, especially for such a price.

My alignment was done by a local shop for $70, and it was not
necessary to enlarge any mounting holes in order to bring the
alignment back to spec.  The H&R's drop about the same amount
as the Eibachs.

> I thought I'd be picking up the car today, but the service mgr told me
> that while removing the eccentric bolt that adjusts the lower control
> arm it broke off!

Hmmm...  These bolts were not a problem for me, and they certainly
shouldn't have been a problem for professionals, unless of course
they were being careless with their air tools.

>He claimed that there was 'extra undercoating'
>and that the bolt had been 'over-torqued'.

A Mitsubishi dealership service center broke two of my front wheel
studs while changing my clutch, and they told me the EXACT same
thing.  I knew they were lying because I had hand-torqued the bolts
myself, but I was forced to pay them because my car was at their
mercy until I picked it up (it's kind of bad to drive your car away with
only 3 front wheel studs).  It makes me angry again just to think about
it, and I really wished I had done the clutch myself.

If I were you, after paying this guy I would hand him a banana and
say "this is for you and your monkey knowledge and your monkey
business with its monkey mechanics and their monkey antics."  Then
I would say "THIS is you," and tickle my armpits and do my best
monkey noises, just to drive the point home.

Or something like that,

- --Errin Humphrey


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 08:30:30 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mikael_=C5kesson?= <vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Eibach Springs; Installation nightmare; Help!

Bob wrote:
the service mgr told me that while removing the eccentric bolt that adjusts the lower control arm it broke off! 
QUESTIONS:  Has anyone else had experience with these bolts being a problem? 

Hi

I actually did the same thing last sunday! One of the eccentrics snapped right off. Mine broke on the "nut" side, my suggestion is to check on witch side the bolt broke, if it broke on the side with the eccentric washer then they probably used a big wrench on the wrong side of the bolt. And if that's the case then they have done wrong and should pay for the whole thing.

A friend and I changed springs on two VR-4's this weekend and it shall not take more than two houers even if you never have worked on a VR-4 before. (if you have the right tools)

/Mikael Akesson http://www.3000gt.nu



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 08:58:02 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Ground Control Group Purchase

What's going here ??

The GC GP for the DSM people (and we) is over since some weeks and there
isn't a demand right now. Even more , I haven't received any springs yet !!!
There have been some problems with people and I'm still waiting for the
stuff. Mikael got them this week but I haven't heard anything from them. As
I called GC they said to check this out and calling me back... for sure
nobody called me !

Good luck for everybody... I'm not happy at the moment !

Roger
93'3000GT TT

> for those of you not scared by Bob's recent fiasco w/ the Eibach
>springs, I've been told that we can get in on the DSM's Ground Control
>Group Discount for the entire unit and we get discounts on the camber
>plates. The discount is 20%-25% (i'll be told actual amount tomorrow,
>but alteast 20%). If you want in on this please email ME (

<snip>

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 00:33:13 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Eibach Springs; Installation nightmare; Help!

- -----Original Message-----From: Errin Humphrey
<errin@u.washington.edu>

>Bob Forrest wrote:
>> alignment back to spec) and I shared that with the service mgr.
The
>> next day he called and told me there were FOUR springs (duh) and he
>> had only quoted me price for 2!  I told him that I'd gotten a price
>> from a small shop in town for all 4 for $250 (+ alignment), but I
used
>
>So he charged you a total of $760 + alignment?!  It sounds like
>he seriously took you for a ride.  Even $380 sounds expensive
>for doing all four.  Like Jim Berry, it took me about 5 hours total
>to swap all four springs (I went to H&R).  I was using a friend's
>air tools and I rented a widow-maker spring compressor.  It was
>my first time doing the job, and I was taking me sweet time with
>everything.  The next time I did springs it took me significantly
less
>time to do them. I'm surprised it would take supposed Stealth
>"specialists" all day to do the job, especially for such a price.


I haven't seen the bill yet...  I pick up the car in the morning,
assuming they got a replacement bolt for the one they trashed.  The
$380 was an estimate for the front springs and an alignment, and I get
a 10% Team3S discount, or about $340 total.  But I thought that was
high even for ALL FOUR!  I had an estimate in town from another shop
for $250 plus alignment (I assumed $65), so my thinking was that it
was only $25 more to use the guys who (theoretically) know my car.  If
I estimate that $300 was the install part for 2, then $500 for 4 would
be logical, and $80 for alignment is $580...  Even with the Team3S 10%
discount, that's still over $500, which is pure extortion, ESPECIALLY
if they try to bang me for additional $$$ for the bolt they broke...

>My alignment was done by a local shop for $70, and it was not
>necessary to enlarge any mounting holes in order to bring the
>alignment back to spec.  The H&R's drop about the same amount
>as the Eibachs.


I've heard it both ways from guys on the list, and it appears that a
number of them have had the problem mostly on the rears--  I wouldn't
mind -.1 or -.2 camber, but -1.0 (one guy's experience) is way off.  I
won't know until I get there in the AM.

>> I thought I'd be picking up the car today, but the service mgr told
me
>> that while removing the eccentric bolt that adjusts the lower
control
>> arm it broke off!
>
>Hmmm...  These bolts were not a problem for me, and they certainly
>shouldn't have been a problem for professionals, unless of course
>they were being careless with their air tools.


If I'm paying for expertise, there's no excuse for breaking off a bolt
on a car with 20k miles, that has been kept in a garage in a city
where it rarely rains.  It should be equivalent to removing a bolt on
a 2 year old car-- neither rusted nor corroded.  A piece of cake for a
pro...

>>He claimed that there was 'extra undercoating'
>>and that the bolt had been 'over-torqued'.
>
>A Mitsubishi dealership service center broke two of my front wheel
>studs while changing my clutch, and they told me the EXACT same
>thing.  I knew they were lying because I had hand-torqued the bolts
>myself, but I was forced to pay them because my car was at their
>mercy until I picked it up (it's kind of bad to drive your car away
with
>only 3 front wheel studs).  It makes me angry again just to think
about
>it, and I really wished I had done the clutch myself.


I feel the same way...  Next time I have to do something like this,
I'm goin to do it myself.  I've got all the tools and a big old
fork-lift out back to jack the car up-- I'll buy a spring compressor
and a sixpack and just do it right the first time.

- -:-

Well all you guys who have shared your experiences have given me lots
of ammo to bring with me in the morning.  I'm going to have 'chapter
and verse' about what things should cost when I go into the
dealership...

I won't be able to post back how I made out until Monday, since I'm
leaving for the weekend as soon as I pick up my car, but I'll let you
all know the final tally...

Thanks so much for all the helpful input!

Best,

Forrest


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 01:31:04 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Eibach Springs; Installation nightmare; Help!

- -----Original Message-----From: Jim Berry <fastmax@home.com>
- ---------snip----------
>> afraid to see what his final bill will be...  QUESTIONS: What have
you
>> guys paid to have Eibachs installed???  How much more for
alignment?
>=====================================================
>The tech doesn't sound very competent ----- I installed, in my
driveway,using
>a hydraulic jack, an impact wrench and hand tools the following items
in about
>6 hours. Ground control caster/camber plate, stainless steel brake
lines, paint
>the calipers, GAB struts, Ground Control spring perches, checked the
camber
>with a bubble gage and the toe with a couple of aluminum straight
edges.
>I took the car to an alignment shop the following day and spent two
hours and
>$90 setting the alignment and finding out what range of adjustment  I
now have.
>The rear is out of spec. [ I dropped the car 1 1/2" ] so I have to
resolve that.


I thought the tech sounded incompetent as well...  When I worked on my
'muscle cars', doing springs was a piece of cake-- on a lift, maybe an
hour per pair.  But I'm just not familiar with our suspensions, so I
thought maybe there was something else involved.  From what I've heard
so far, it's pretty much the same to do our springs.  But it sounds
like you also might have to go with elongating the holes in the rear
to get back to spec, as was suggested to me for the Eibachs.  Once I
get them installed, I'm going to be right there and watch them do the
alignment and report back...  I'm just a bit surprised that with all
the guys on the list with Eibachs, that more of them didn't mention
problems getting the alignment correct...  Either their installers
didn't mention it, or they're driving around with squat cambered
rears.

Thanks for the great feedback!

Best,

Forrest


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 07:19:10 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Eibach Springs; Installation nightmare; Help!

- -----Original Message-----From: Ron Thompson <rtetetet@earthlink.net>
>The time sound right for install that you got from the site, and at
>$52 / hr. that would be $160 plus four wheel alignment at about $60
>and suspension mods at 2 hrs. add $110. Total $340. I bought mine
from
>my guy and he put them in for $100.


Change $52 to $87.50, (since I live in the land of 16-yr-old Silicon
Valley millionaire C-programmers), and the total is around $500...  I
can live with that--  I'm just not prepared to pay for an internship
on top of that while some chucko looks at a Stealth for the first
time...

>Boy Howdy, that's a 19 mm bolt! I heard them strip them, but break
>it??? Well yeah, if you over tighten it. They could have stripped the
>head that has the eccentric, it's a little short on the head depth,
>and had to cut it off. Their problem either way. It doesn't sound
like
>the technician is very slick. I wouldn't pay for the inexperience of
>the guy. You know they bill you for what the shop manual says it will
>take to do a certain job. If they run over it's their fault. If they
>under cut it, they don't reduce the price to you. I'd stand hard on
>paying more than $350, and that is still high.


I'm not sure anymore what he said about the kind of damage to the
bolt, but you'd better believe I'm gonna take a good look at it.  I
think he said they broke it, but I could be wrong; I was more
concerned about them replacing the bolt and me getting the car back in
time to leave SF today for a long Birthday weekend for ET (my SO).  By
SF prices, if I can get out of there for under $500, I'll chalk it up
to experience and think hard about going back there.  The one thing
I've got going is that they KNOW about Team3S and that 450 other folks
are going to hear about their fairness (or lack of same)...

Thanks again for all the great input!

Best,

F


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 07:56:59 -0700
From: "Chad Beeder" <syzygy@eskimo.com>
Subject: Team3S: Questions about a steering problem

Hello,

I'm new to the list.  Hi everybody!

I have some questions about a few problems I seem to be having on my '93
VR4.  I think these symptoms, may be related, but I'm hoping that someone
here may be able to tell me for sure.

1. The steering seems to be a little bit loose and not as accurate as it
used to be.  (I haven't had the car that long, so maybe this is just my
imagination, but it seems this way to me.)  Hitting bumps in the road will
sometimes tend to jerk the steering wheel around quite a bit.

2. The car tends to pull slightly to the left.  (I have checked the tire
pressures and they seem OK.)

3. I work in a building which has speed bumps in the parking lot.
Generally, when coming into or leaving the parking lot, I'll hear a sort of
clunking sound when I hit the first speed bump with the front tires.
Subsequent speed bumps don't produce this noise.

Any thoughts as to what this might be?  I saw something on the 3SI page
about loose tie rod ends producing similar problems; is this the most likely
culprit, or given these symptoms are there other things it could be?  (I'm
not very knowledgeable about the mechanics of cars and to be frank, I don't
even have a clear understanding of what tie rod ends are, other than they
have something to do with the steering mechanism.)

I've had the car for about two months (it has about 70,000 miles on it) and
it is looking like it won't be cheap to get it in top condition and keep it
that way (I also have some slight problems with the synchros) but I
definitely love it anyway!  These are beautiful cars and it is great to
finally have my dream car.  :-)

Thanks,

Chad


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:28:13 CDT
From: "Curt Gendron" <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: BOV thoughts

Hey everyone,

I've been debating for awhile now as to which blow off valve to buy.  I'm
still leaning towards a 1g DSM BOV.  I've heard a lot of stories about
people with aftermarket ones (Blitz, HKS, Apexi, GReddy) that get a
stumbling or other problems between shifts during daily driving.

Roger mentioned that ones with twin chambers shouldn't have this problem. 
Although he admits he has some problems with his BOV.  I'd like to hear from
some other people.  Who else has comments about their aftermarket BOV??

Thanks,
Curt,
95 R/T TT --> 13.11 @ 105.9 mph
96 GSX --> 14.49 @ 92.9 mph
and author of Minnesota 3/S at: http://www.mn3s.org


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Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:12:03 -0700
From: Peg A Gagne <pagagne-mn@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Questions about a steering problem

Chad Beeder wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm new to the list.  Hi everybody!
>
> I have some questions about a few problems I seem to be having on my '93
> VR4.  I think these symptoms, may be related, but I'm hoping that someone
> here may be able to tell me for sure.
>
> 1. The steering seems to be a little bit loose and not as accurate as it
> used to be.  (I haven't had the car that long, so maybe this is just my
> imagination, but it seems this way to me.)  Hitting bumps in the road will
> sometimes tend to jerk the steering wheel around quite a bit.
>
> 2. The car tends to pull slightly to the left.  (I have checked the tire
> pressures and they seem OK.)
>
> 3. I work in a building which has speed bumps in the parking lot.
> Generally, when coming into or leaving the parking lot, I'll hear a sort of
> clunking sound when I hit the first speed bump with the front tires.
> Subsequent speed bumps don't produce this noise.
>
> Any thoughts as to what this might be?  I saw something on the 3SI page
> about loose tie rod ends producing similar problems; is this the most likely
> culprit, or given these symptoms are there other things it could be?  (I'm
> not very knowledgeable about the mechanics of cars and to be frank, I don't
> even have a clear understanding of what tie rod ends are, other than they
> have something to do with the steering mechanism.)
>
> I've had the car for about two months (it has about 70,000 miles on it) and
> it is looking like it won't be cheap to get it in top condition and keep it
> that way (I also have some slight problems with the synchros) but I
> definitely love it anyway!  These are beautiful cars and it is great to
> finally have my dream car.  :-)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chad
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm


Chad

When I bought my 94 VR4 in April I had the same problem with the
steering.  All I had to do was buy new tires & the car now steers like a
dream-problem gone. 

As far as the clunk going over speed bumps, I'm anxious to hear other
replies as I have the same thing and only 28K on my car.

Peg    Green 94 VR4
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:04:52 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Questions about a steering problem

- -----Original Message-----From: Chad Beeder <syzygy@eskimo.com>
- ---------snip-------
>1. The steering seems to be a little bit loose and not as accurate as
it
>used to be.  (I haven't had the car that long, so maybe this is just
my
>imagination, but it seems this way to me.)  Hitting bumps in the road
will
>sometimes tend to jerk the steering wheel around quite a bit.

I'll leave your tie-rod scenario to others who know more about it than
I do, but here's a possible explanation about your car responding
strongly to bumps and cracks in the road...  If the car has
aftermarket wide(r) tires (especially directionals), different than
stock, the car may have a tendency to 'track' (pull to one side) in
road cracks and jump right or left when hitting a bump.  This is a
known fact, and one which some of us have alleviated somewhat by going
with higher than normal tire inflations.  I have wide directional
performance tires on my car (and had a similar problem to yours), and
I tried varying the inflation at the suggestion of a racer...  It
solved the 'tracking' problem (and the problem of understeer, too)---

Stock inflation (on the door jamb) was 32 front, 29 rear.  I drove the
car at various inflations all the way up to 50 lbs, by 3 lb increments
(F/R):  35/32, 38/35, 41/38, 44/41, 47/44, 50/47..., and found that
the car handled best in the MIDDLE of that range.  (There's also a
different dynamic on the FWD than on your AWD car, which calls for a 6
lb differential between Front and Rear).  After testing for a while, I
finally settled on 43/37 for my 'normal' setting.  If I'm just about
town, I use a softer 40/34, and on long trips or in the rain, I use
46/40.  Although there are plenty of folks who will debate this
(mainly because you WILL shorten the life of the tires), you can
definitely FEEL when your car is handling best, and that isn't always
the recommended 'comfort' setting suggested on the door jamb.
Handling is more important to me than tire economy, so I prefer these
higher PSI's, but you may have different priorities...  But you owe it
to yourself to try a few other settings and see if it makes your car
'feel' more responsive and less at the whim of road imperfections.
And you can always go back to the stock inflations...

BTW, I think the other "syzygy" screen name on the list (Nissa and her
husband, syzygy@webzone.net) use inflations above stock, too, and she
drives (and races) a car like yours.  You might want to ask her what
tires and settings she uses on the street...

Email me privately and let me know how you made out.

Best,

Forrest



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:48:26 -600
From: syzygy@webzone.net
Subject: Re: Team3S: Questions about a steering problem

>-----Original Message-----From: Chad Beeder <syzygy@eskimo.com>
>---------snip-------
>>1. The steering seems to be a little bit loose and not as accurate as
>>it used to be.  (I haven't had the car that long, so maybe this is just
>>my imagination, but it seems this way to me.)  Hitting bumps in the road
>>will sometimes tend to jerk the steering wheel around quite a bit.
>

Bob Forrest wrote:

>BTW, I think the other "syzygy" screen name on the list (Nissa and her
>husband, syzygy@webzone.net) use inflations above stock, too, and she
>drives (and races) a car like yours.  You might want to ask her what
>tires and settings she uses on the street...

Thanks for the recommendation Bob! Us "syzygy's" tend to have good taste in
cars, what can I say? *wink*

I hate to admit it but I have not paid too much attention to the tire pressure
on my street tires. I've only had them for 3 months and they are performing
very well on suggested tire pressures (suggested by the tire maker - not the
car door.)

I will tell you this... my first 3/S was an Stealth RT/TT. It came with Dunlop
SP8000s - OLD ones. It was very 'skittish' and jumped all over the road. When
I replaced them with a set of Michelon (sp??) Pilots and alot of the skittishness
went away.

On my VR-4 it came with 18x8.5 wheels (stock ones). And had Yokahama tires...
the Yoks were good and only slightly skittish. After my car was stolen and recovered
we got the 18x9's with Toyo Proxies T-1s. They are also just slightly skittish.
But not so bad that I have even messed with tire pressures on it. The VR-4 is
also, literally, impossible to align. It was apparently in a wreck at some time.
I took it to a shop that straightened the frame as well as they could. It still
pulls just SLIGHTLY to the right.

You may want to take your car in for an alignment and verify it wasn't wrecked.
Or try changing tires.. that may help alot. I have never heard the clunk on
first speed bump thing before. But, I did do half of a race with the right sway
bar disconnected (the bolt fell out) which resulted in a clunk whenever I turned
the wheel far left. I put in the bolt and it worked great.

Race tire pressures vary depending on the course and weather more than anything
else. We usually running in some combination between 32 and 50 pounds on Khumo
Victor Racer tires (with 17x8.5 wheels). There is no hard and fast rule. Major
thing to do in that environment is mark the sides of your tires and do a run.
If your tires roll you want to add more pressure. If they don't get far enough
to the edge, let some out... We do tend to run higher pressure in front than
back due to the weight distribution.

I hope all that helps!

Nissa
 
95 VR-4


Don't mess in the affairs of dragons.
For you are crunchy and go good with ketchup.
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:50:25 -0400
From: Randy MacAulay <rmacaulay@mediaone.net>
Subject: Team3S: Castrol Syntec 5-50

        Hi,

    I was wondering if anyone out there had any experience (good or bad)
with Castrol Syntec 5w50.  I'm about to change the oil in my car and I
can get a great deal on this but I don't want to use it just cuz' it's
relatively inexpensive.

    Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks!
    Randy
    '94 VR4
    Greddy Profec 'A'
    misc. other mods.
    3si #0053



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:39:03 -0700
From: "Dave Allison" <dallison@siebel.com>
Subject: Team3S: HKS SSBV problems

Heya!

I've gone through my archives of both lists and unfortunately they
don't seem to go far enough back.

I'm looking for any information anyone may have regarding the
adjustment of the screw in the back of the HKS SSBV.

A few months back I found that the SSBV was only working
intermittently and it has only gotten progressively worse. It's now to the
point where the SSBV does not work at all! I can hear the compressor surge
and it makes me wince to imagine what the turbo compressor blades are
withstanding as I lift the throttle.

Am I correct in assuming this is an adjustment problem?

I notice there are 2 screws located above and below each other on
the same bolt on the SSBV. I'm wondering if the nut nearest the  SSBV
housing is supposed to be tightened down and not adjusted at all. Perhaps
the farthest nut is the one that is to be adjusted? I don't have any
directions for the unit and although HKS may be doing wonders for the
graphic presentation of their website... the content of their website simply
sucks. I could find no info whatsoever?

HELP!


Dave Allison

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:27:11 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Castrol Syntec 5-50

I run Castrol RS Racing oil 5W-60 since last year. It's known as the best oil
for "hot" running cars although on our cars the oil is not getting as hot as in
a Porsche or a Supra TT.

I do have nothing to say but good to this stuff. Mitsu is recomending Castrol
for the cars here and I always had it in the car.

In winter I use 0W-30 for the extra protection.

>     I was wondering if anyone out there had any experience (good or bad)
> with Castrol Syntec 5w50.  I'm about to change the oil in my car and I
> can get a great deal on this but I don't want to use it just cuz' it's
> relatively inexpensive.

Inexpensive ? Here it is one of the most expensive juice available ($17 a liter)

Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:57:45 -0500
From: Wayne Hietala <wala@hypertech-inc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Castrol Syntec 5-50

Oh yes, the good ol' days in Japan where Castrol RS was available. I used
it in my Motorcycle, great stuff, too bad it was $10-15 a quart.(but worth
it when the capacity is 2 qts)  


At 03:27 PM 8/20/99 , R.G. wrote:
>I run Castrol RS Racing oil 5W-60 since last year. It's known as the best oil
>for "hot" running cars although on our cars the oil is not getting as hot
as in
>a Porsche or a Supra TT.
>
>I do have nothing to say but good to this stuff. Mitsu is recomending Castrol
>for the cars here and I always had it in the car.
>
>In winter I use 0W-30 for the extra protection.
>
>>     I was wondering if anyone out there had any experience (good or bad)
>> with Castrol Syntec 5w50.  I'm about to change the oil in my car and I
>> can get a great deal on this but I don't want to use it just cuz' it's
>> relatively inexpensive.
>
>Inexpensive ? Here it is one of the most expensive juice available ($17 a
>liter)
>
>Roger
>93'3000GT TT


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:50:17 -0700
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Castrol Syntec 5-50

Randy...

I used Castrol Syntec 5-50 for two years in my VR4. I've been pleased with
it's performance, although I felt the low end might be a little too low for
our moderate climate, so I changed to Mobil 1 10-50 with the last change
(after a motor flush). Results have not been significantly different,
perhaps one minor division increase in meter reading at idle.

Looking forward...Chris

- -----Original Message-----
From: Randy MacAulay [mailto:rmacaulay@mediaone.net]
Sent: Friday, August 20, 1999 10:50 AM
To: Team3S
Subject: Team3S: Castrol Syntec 5-50
Hi, I was wondering if anyone out there had any experience (good or bad)
with Castrol Syntec 5w50.  I'm about to change the oil in my car and I
can get a great deal on this but I don't want to use it just cuz' it's
relatively inexpensive.

    Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks!
    Randy
    '94 VR4
    Greddy Profec 'A'
    misc. other mods.
    3si #0053

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:26:10 EDT
From: "Dg B" <dbretton@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: MiniMopar Oil Filter Study Page -Resurrected!-

Hello all,

   I noticed that the minimopar site, which contained all that good info on
a comparison on the physical characteristics of oil filters, had been taken
down for legal reasons.

Well, resourceful 'ole me had duped the entire page (minus a couple of
links) locally on my hard drive.

I have popped up a replica of the minimopar site on my web page.
However, I have made no links to it off of my main page, in the hopes of
keeping the legal eagles (and search engines) at bay.

If you haven't checked out the site, you can see it here:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/6637/oilfilterstudy.htm

If you would like a copy of the site, I have zipped it, and would be happy
to send it to you.  (about 770k, zipped)

Hope that helps!

Regards,
   Dennis


_______________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:13:25 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S: Corner weights for 3000 VR4

Have any of the road racers out there actually measured the corner weights
for the 3000s?

I'm going to be purchasing a coil over setup (not sure which one yet) and am
looking for a point of reference.

Please don't reply telling me what you have, or what someone told you to
get.(springs)  I only want actual numbers.

Thanks,

Brad
Check out my home page:  http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
 E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#  3612682


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:42:17 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Adventures in braking, cont'd

We installed  Porterfield R4 race pads in the VR4 earlier this week, in
preparation for running at Blackhawk Farms this weekend. Last night, I
bedded in the brakes. Instructions say to keep stopping until the brakes
fade, so I continually ran it up to 80, banged on the brakes, brought it
down to 20 mph or so, then off we went again. Problem was, the brakes would
not fade. After about 10 cycles, I thought I oughta take a look, so I
stopped, got out, and saw that they were on fire!  Flames were literally
coming out of the spokes!

Hoo, boy! I jumped back in, got 'er going again to put out the flames, then
cruised around the back roads until everything cooled off and parked it for
the night.

I called Porterfield today to ask if I had done a no-no, and they said
everything was normal, go have fun.

We'll see. I guess the brakes not fading after 10 big stops is a GOOD sign,
eh?

Track report on Monday.

Rich/old poop/94 VR4/Somebody stop me!




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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:55:14 -0500
From: "Oskar" <swede@pclink.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: HKS SSBV problems

What you're seeing on your SSBV is a bolt and locking nut.  Adjustments are
made by loosening the locking nut (closest to the SSBV), turning the
adjustment bolt (the bolt itself).  Once you have made your  adjustments you
tighten down the locking nut and voila you're done.


Oskar
'95 R/T TT

>
> I notice there are 2 screws located above and below each other on
>the same bolt on the SSBV. I'm wondering if the nut nearest the  SSBV
>housing is supposed to be tightened down and not adjusted at all. Perhaps
>the farthest nut is the one that is to be adjusted? I don't have any
>directions for the unit and although HKS may be doing wonders for the
>graphic presentation of their website... the content of their website
simply
>sucks. I could find no info whatsoever?
>
>HELP!
>
>
>Dave Allison
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:43:46 -0700
From: David Margrave <davidma@premier1.net>
Subject: Team3S: marvel mystery oil analysis

Sometimes I get my used motor oil analyzed by a lab.  I asked them if
they'd ever analyzed marvel mystery oil, and they said they hadn't but
offered to do it for free.  So I sent off a small sample of new marvel
mystery oil, wanting to find out just what's inside it before I put it
inside my car (some folks have recommended it as a possible fix for the
clacking valves)

Here's a rough summary of the results.  By the way, the lab I use is
Blackstone labs, at http://www.blackstone-labs.com.  I asked them to
create a new equipment category for the twin turbocharged 3.0L
mitsubishi engine.  I'm not sure if this is of interest to y'all, but I
like to get hard quantitative data wherever possible, i.e. did that K&N
I just installed let a lot more crud into the engine? etc.

the test checks for a lot more elements than I list here, I only list
the ones that had non-zero values:

element           parts per million
- -------------------------------------
iron                1
copper            1
silicon            1
phosphorous    576
zinc                1

sustained viscosity @210 deg. F:  35.3
Flashpoint: 195 deg. F
- - compare these to 57-72 viscosity and 375 deg F. flashpoint for a
10W/30 - this is pretty light stuff.


Dave


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:54:54 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: BOV thoughts

I have a Blitz SSBOV and have experienced none of the stumbling or
hesitation problems supposedly attributed to vent-to-atmospehere BOVs.

I suspect the problem has more to do with leakage of the BOV than where it
is vented.  If you think about it, the BOV typically operates when the
throttle is closing.  The ECM shouldn't care too much about any mixture at
this point.  At part throttle a properly operating BOV will be thoroughly
closed.  The only plausible explanation I can concoct is leakage which is of
course unmetered air and therefore may throw off the 'puter.

According to a few manufacturers of pricey high end BOVs, mass produced BOVs
have less than perfect production tolerances which can lead to leakage
between the cyclinder and bore of the BOV under pressure.  Makes sense to
me.

Maybe I got lucky and got one that doesn't leak as others with Blitz and HKS
and whatever BOVs have reported of the stumbling problem.  Yet others report
no such trouble.


Barry

> -----Original Message-----
>
> Hey everyone,
>
> I've been debating for awhile now as to which blow off valve to buy.  I'm
> still leaning towards a 1g DSM BOV.  I've heard a lot of stories about
> people with aftermarket ones (Blitz, HKS, Apexi, GReddy) that get a
> stumbling or other problems between shifts during daily driving.
>
> Roger mentioned that ones with twin chambers shouldn't have this
> problem.
> Although he admits he has some problems with his BOV.  I'd like
> to hear from
> some other people.  Who else has comments about their aftermarket BOV??
>
> Thanks,
> Curt,
> 95 R/T TT --> 13.11 @ 105.9 mph
> 96 GSX --> 14.49 @ 92.9 mph
> and author of Minnesota 3/S at: http://www.mn3s.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:58:09 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: HKS SSBV problems

It could be dirty.  Grit and oil and parts of small animals etc may get in
there occasionally.  The clearance between the cylinder and the bore of the
BOV is miniscule.  If it is dirty it may exhibit the problem you report.
Might be worth a disassembly and cleaning with a non-residue forming
solvent, then a careful adjustment after it is back together.  While you're
in there check the health of the spring.


Barry

> -----Original Message-----

> Heya!
>
> I've gone through my archives of both lists and unfortunately they
> don't seem to go far enough back.
>
> I'm looking for any information anyone may have regarding the
> adjustment of the screw in the back of the HKS SSBV.
>
> A few months back I found that the SSBV was only working
> intermittently and it has only gotten progressively worse. It's now to the
> point where the SSBV does not work at all! I can hear the compressor surge
> and it makes me wince to imagine what the turbo compressor blades are
> withstanding as I lift the throttle.
>
> Am I correct in assuming this is an adjustment problem?
>
> I notice there are 2 screws located above and below each other on
> the same bolt on the SSBV. I'm wondering if the nut nearest the  SSBV
> housing is supposed to be tightened down and not adjusted at all. Perhaps
> the farthest nut is the one that is to be adjusted? I don't have any
> directions for the unit and although HKS may be doing wonders for the
> graphic presentation of their website... the content of their
> website simply
> sucks. I could find no info whatsoever?
>
> HELP!
>
>
> Dave Allison

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 14:16:19 -0400
From: "Accelerated Accessories" <meyer2@erols.com>
Subject: Team3S: Split Second Fuel Controller

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEEBDF.BD699440
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

All:

I just finished installing my Split Second ARC2 Fuel controller and new =
fuel injectors.  I have had some experiance with the HKS VPC/GCC setup =
as well as the Apexi AFC and neither of these devices have impressed me =
nearly as much as the ARC 2.  The main difference between the VPC and =
ARC 2 is that the VPC Converts the air/fuel system to a speed density =
setup which involves intercepting signals to the ECU, altering them and =
then turning them back into somthing that the ECU can understand.  The =
ARC 2, on the other hand, uses a MAF sensor which replaces the factory =
Karman Vortex air flow meter.  By not having to hack/convert signals, =
the ARC2 setup offers superior drivability over VPC cars.  Not to =
mention the ease of tuning that is involved in getting the ARC 2 up and =
running.  The Split Second ARC2 kit includes a 3.5 MAF, Large K&N =
filter, ARC2 control unit, wiring harness, ARM 1 air/fuel ratio meter, =
all hardware, and complete wiring diagram (including pin out and color =
coding).  The entire install can be completed in about an hour.  More =
tech info is available at www.splitsec.com.  From now on, I will be =
recommending these fuel controllers over the VPC. If anybody is =
interested in purchasing the ARC2 give me a call at 301-393-8800 or =
email meyer2@erols.com=20


Matt
www.AcceleratedAccessories.com

- ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEEBDF.BD699440
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>All:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I just finished installing my Split Second ARC2 Fuel =

controller and new fuel injectors.&nbsp; I have had some experiance with =
the HKS=20
VPC/GCC setup as well as the Apexi AFC and neither of these devices have =

impressed me nearly as much as the ARC 2.&nbsp; The main difference =
between the=20
VPC and ARC 2 is that the VPC Converts the air/fuel system to a speed =
density=20
setup which involves intercepting signals to the ECU, altering them and =
then=20
turning them back into somthing that the ECU can understand.&nbsp; The =
ARC 2, on=20
the other hand, uses a MAF sensor which replaces the factory Karman =
Vortex air=20
flow meter.&nbsp; By not having to hack/convert signals, the ARC2 setup =
offers=20
superior drivability over VPC cars.&nbsp; Not to mention the ease of =
tuning that=20
is involved in getting the ARC 2 up and running.&nbsp; The Split Second =
ARC2 kit=20
includes a 3.5 MAF, Large K&amp;N filter, ARC2 control unit, wiring =
harness, ARM=20
1 air/fuel ratio meter, all hardware, and complete wiring diagram =
(including pin=20
out and color coding).&nbsp; The entire install can be completed in =
about an=20
hour.&nbsp; More tech info is available at <A=20
href=3D"http://www.splitsec.com">www.splitsec.com</A>.&nbsp; From now =
on, I will=20
be recommending these fuel controllers over the VPC. If anybody is =
interested in=20
purchasing the ARC2 give me a call at 301-393-8800 or email <A=20
href=3D"mailto:meyer2@erols.com">meyer2@erols.com</A> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Matt</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.AcceleratedAccessories.com">www.AcceleratedAccessories=
.com</A></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BEEBDF.BD699440--

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------------------------------

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