--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #262
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest        Thursday, August 19 1999        Volume 01 : Number 262




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 22:11:35 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: To flip the wing or not?

Ok road racers:
We all know our cars push at very high cornering speeds.
As I understand it, this is because the rear sticks better than the front,
so the front plows.

It seems to me that one way to even things out would be to NOT put up the
rear wing -- we only get about 100 pounds of downforce anyway, but this
would make the rear a teeny bit lighter and lessen the push.

Any thoughts on this? Wing up or down? What would not having the air dam
down do in front?
Is this a balanced system?

BTW, I decided not to install the Ground Control suspension yet. I'm
running at Blackhawk Farms this weekend, the first time out with new
Porterfield brakes and new Yoko 032R tires. I don't like to change too many
things at one time, so I'll wait until later to change the springs.

Rich/old poop/94 VR4

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 23:07:53 CDT
From: "Curt Gendron" <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: Water injection opinions (was Losing Boost)

Roger,

.4mm and .5mm jets might be too much water.  If spraying too much water, it
won't atomize, and therefore won't be effective.  Another Minn 3/Ser has
installed the Spearco unit on his 92 VR4.  And he has a datalogger.  On his
intial runs with the .25mm nozzle, he got no knock what so ever.  And him
and John are doing more testing as I speak.

As far as the max boost on the stock turbos is still a mystery to me.  John
saw a peak of 1.39 with his 9Bs in third gear.  Of course you have the 13G,
so you should be able to boost higher.  Is 1.34 the most you could produce
with the 13Gs?  The leaking BOV is the only think I can think of for the
reason that I can't boost past 1.28 kg/cm2.

I think there was another person on this list who recently posted about
installing water injection.  And if I recall, he got about the same boost as
I did.  hmmm...

later,
Curt,
95 R/T TT --> 13.11 @ 105.9 mph
96 GSX --> 14.49 @ 92.9 mph
and author of Minnesota 3/S at: http://www.mn3s.org


>From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
>To: "Curt Gendron" <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>,       
><stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
>Subject: Re: Team3S: Losing boost (was: Stillen Downpipe)
>Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 00:09:09 +0200
>
> >I've got the .25mm nozzle in there.
>
>Hmm, I'm running a 0.4mm and 0.5mm jet and still are getting knock !
>





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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 22:06:30 -0700
From: Rich <rleroy@pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: I need dimensions FAST

Ryan:

The distance from outside of the flange to opposite side is
55-7/8", +/- 1/16", measured at the jack notches, front &
rear.

Rich
- -----------------------------------------
Jim Berry wrote:

<snip>
> 1)  97.2"
> 2)  72.4"
<snip>
- --
"If you dig it, do it.
 If you really dig it, do it twice."
-- Jim Croce (1943-1973)
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 09:41:25 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water injection opinions

>.4mm and .5mm jets might be too much water.  If spraying too much water, it
>won't atomize, and therefore won't be effective.

This is not the problem due to the high pressure (6.5 bars water pressure at
the moment). The water atomizes very well.

I got now a full set of nozzles from ERL to test the setup. I'm currently
running two jets, intercooling and detonation control but I'll do some tests
on Saturday with only one jet to control the detonation.

>installed the Spearco unit on his 92 VR4.  And he has a datalogger.  On his
>intial runs with the .25mm nozzle, he got no knock what so ever.

It would be very interesting to compare the logs ! Running a back-to-back
test at 15.5 psi without and with the WIS (like a 1/4 mile run, up to
6000-6500 in 2nd and 3rd)

>As far as the max boost on the stock turbos is still a mystery to me.  John
>saw a peak of 1.39 with his 9Bs in third gear.  Of course you have the 13G,
>so you should be able to boost higher.  Is 1.34 the most you could produce
>with the 13Gs?  The leaking BOV is the only think I can think of for the
>reason that I can't boost past 1.28 kg/cm2.

This was boost cut that kicked in these times. The only thing I can admit is
that my stupidness cranked up boost so high, the peak showed ....
1.47kg/cm2. Any question about killing the engine ? I'm sure the stock BPV
cannot handle that high boost and it always leaks a little due to the small
hole in it (smoothens the operation).

>I think there was another person on this list who recently posted about
>installing water injection.  And if I recall, he got about the same boost
as
>I did.  hmmm...

Curt, I guess we can't compare the nozzle size as it is different as well as
pressure and flow is. I will ask ERL about a possible pressure drop. Any
bend in the IC piping causes loss in pressure and increased heat. The water
stream sprayed out of the nozzles may also cause a drop as the air acts as
the transporter fro the water. This may cause a drop theoretically.

Keep us updated and if possible email me the logs to compare.

Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT TT



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 00:57:49 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Welding Tranny Case

It can be welded by a competent and experienced aluminum welder.  Make sure
they put the thing in a jig and do it right (properly cooled and placed
etc.) or it could cause further stresses which may cause grief down the
road.  I had one welded on the bell housing with good success.


Barry

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> [mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Bob Rand
> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 1999 11:39 AM
> To: Stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: Team3S: Welding Tranny Case
>
>
> Hey Guys,  I have a spare tranny, but; the case is broken at the motor
> mount.
> Need some advice from those that have experience with welding.
>
> Can the case be welded?   I'm not sure what kind of metal it is or what
> would be used to repair it.  Sure would like to save it if possible.
>
> Bob
> 93 Stealth TT
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:58:18 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water injection opinions (was Losing Boost)

>.4mm and .5mm jets might be too much water.  If spraying too much water, it
>won't atomize, and therefore won't be effective.  Another Minn 3/Ser has
>installed the Spearco unit on his 92 VR4.  And he has a datalogger.  On his
>intial runs with the .25mm nozzle, he got no knock what so ever.  And him
>and John are doing more testing as I speak.

Important : My test runs are made with ONLY pure, crystal clear water from
the alps. No Methanol mixture, therefore there is no additional stuff that
can be burnt.

I therefore recommend doing the tests with and without the juice as I think
it's important to know the difference. If one is running out of the mixture
and only has water avilable (and this is almsot evyrwhere) he should know if
the lack of Methanol does something bad to the engine then ! It wouldn't
surprise me to see additional knock like on my runs.

Also I really need the injectors times to compare. As the WOT values are
just taken from the table the methanol seems to be more against the knock
than only the water. This is why I'm running bigger jets as I have problems
to find Methanol here :-((

PS: ERL just did a 3.2l V8 Biturbo 4-door sedan Maserati. The bullet is fed
with two 0.6mm water jets and controlled by the same system I have with a
water pressure of 7bars. The mapping of the curve allowed to push the
pressure up to 1.5bars (damn big, great turbos) Please don't ask if this is
a "Killer" sleeper that keepss any Porsche Biturbo and our cars way behind
(gulp).

Regards
Roger
93'3000GT TT

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 08:26:51 CDT
From: "Curt Gendron" <curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water injection opinions (was Losing Boost)

I've been using either distilled water or a mixture of water and rubbing
alcohol.  Rubbing alcohol is a 70/30 mixture of Isopropal (sp?) and water. 
John felt that this burned well.  You should be able to find this stuff in
stores in Switzerland.  I imagine its a pain to climb a mountain just to
fill your tank.  :)  hehe.

John has also experimented with using HEET.  This is a 50/50 mixture of
isopropal and water.  But if you don't live in the frozen tundra of
Minnesota or other cold climates you'll have no idea what HEET is. ;)  Its
used to help start cars in the winter.

If I can get the logs from the datalogger, I'll pass them Roger's way.

later,
Curt


>From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
>Reply-To: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
>To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
>Subject: Re: Team3S: Water injection opinions (was Losing Boost)
>Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:58:18 +0200
>Important : My test runs are made with ONLY pure, crystal clear water from
>the alps. No Methanol mixture, therefore there is no additional stuff that
>can be burnt.
>
>I therefore recommend doing the tests with and without the juice as I think
>it's important to know the difference. If one is running out of the mixture
>and only has water avilable (and this is almsot evyrwhere) he should know
>if
>the lack of Methanol does something bad to the engine then ! It wouldn't
>surprise me to see additional knock like on my runs.


_______________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 08:57:04 -0500
From: "Basol, John" <jbasol@Carlson.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Water injection opinions (was Losing Boost)

Far be it for me to debate my esteemed colleague, but there are two types of
HEET sold here in the states.  The first is HEET, which is about 90%
Methyl-Alcohol, the other 10% I am unsure of, but there is NO water in it.
The second type of HEET is IsoHEET.  IsoHEET is 100% Isopropyl-Alcohol (to
the best of my knowledge), again no water).  HEET of either type is commonly
poured into the gas tank of vehicles in cold climates, because both types of
alcohol mentioned above do a great job of absorbing water.  This is
desirable to keep the fuel lines from freezing.  I noticed that when I used
either of two, the car ran a little smoother under low boost conditions, as
the alcohol helps to burn the water.

Addition of alcohol to the water mix of a water injected car, will take away
from the water injection's combustion chamber cooling property.  This is
because, much like gasoline, the latent heat of evaporation of alcohol is
not as high as water.

Want maximum cooling, use 100% water.  Add alcohol to do two things.  One,
help the car burn the water (a concern with our crappy ignition systems).
Two, keep the water from freezing in the winter, (better run a 50/50 or
70/30 mix of alcohol/water).

Not that I'm trying to be a smart-ass though, Curt.  :-)

John Basol
System Management Services


-----Original Message-----
From: Curt Gendron [SMTP:curt_gendron@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 1999 8:27 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water injection opinions (was Losing
Boost)

I've been using either distilled water or a mixture of water and
rubbing
alcohol.  Rubbing alcohol is a 70/30 mixture of Isopropal (sp?) and
water. 
John felt that this burned well.  You should be able to find this
stuff in
stores in Switzerland.  I imagine its a pain to climb a mountain
just to
fill your tank.  :)  hehe.

John has also experimented with using HEET.  This is a 50/50 mixture
of
isopropal and water.  But if you don't live in the frozen tundra of
Minnesota or other cold climates you'll have no idea what HEET is.
;)  Its
used to help start cars in the winter.

If I can get the logs from the datalogger, I'll pass them Roger's
way.

later,
Curt


>From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
>Reply-To: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
>To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
>Subject: Re: Team3S: Water injection opinions (was Losing Boost)
>Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:58:18 +0200
>Important : My test runs are made with ONLY pure, crystal clear
water from
>the alps. No Methanol mixture, therefore there is no additional
stuff that
>can be burnt.
>
>I therefore recommend doing the tests with and without the juice as
I think
>it's important to know the difference. If one is running out of the
mixture
>and only has water avilable (and this is almsot evyrwhere) he
should know
>if
>the lack of Methanol does something bad to the engine then ! It
wouldn't
>surprise me to see additional knock like on my runs.


_______________________________________________________________
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http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 10:22:43 -0400
From: Joshua <joshua@unconundrum.com>
Subject: Team3S: Question about towing

OK my friend just got a vr-4 and he was driving it and it started stalling.
He pulled over and called the towing company to tow his car to the garage he
uses.  I was at the garage when the brought the car there.  The problem is
the car was on a tow truck where the front two wheels were locked up in the
front while the rear two tires where on the ground.  I know for a fact that
he told them it was 4-wheel drive and I told him I believe they hafta put it
on a flat bed.  Can anyone tell me if I am correct?  Could the tow truck
have caused more problems?  If so what?  I would assume the tow company
would be insured for their mess up?
Thanks
Joshua
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 07:40:52 -0700
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Team3S: Question about towing

Joshua;

You're absolutely correct with your advice. Never tow these AWD's by raising the front
or the rear wheels and towing.  This will result in deterioration to the viscous
coupling with likely mechanical problems/failure of this feature.  Damage can also
result as heat damage to the rear bushing of the transfer if the rear is lifted and
towed in a normal towing manner.

Best

Darc

Joshua wrote:

> OK my friend just got a vr-4 and he was driving it and it started stalling.
> He pulled over and called the towing company to tow his car to the garage he
> uses.  I was at the garage when the brought the car there.  The problem is
> the car was on a tow truck where the front two wheels were locked up in the
> front while the rear two tires where on the ground.  I know for a fact that
> he told them it was 4-wheel drive and I told him I believe they hafta put it
> on a flat bed.  Can anyone tell me if I am correct?  Could the tow truck
> have caused more problems?  If so what?  I would assume the tow company
> would be insured for their mess up?
> Thanks
> Joshua
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm



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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 22:46:54 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Question about towing

Josh,

Darcy is absolutely right ! Never ever should our cars be towed by either the
front or rear wheels locked. As already said, the viscous coupling will overheat
but even more the transfer case will be not happy at all. The owners manual is
telling the way how the car has to be towed.

Hope your friends car will not get any damage due to this.

Roger
93'3000GT TT

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 18:09:24 -600
From: syzygy@webzone.net
Subject: Team3S: Re: Team3s: 1st autorcross - techniques?

>One of
>>the quickest was little Plymouth Neon.
>
>Musta been an SCCA autocross. They love to cater to little shitbox cars.

SCCA Autocross does not necessarily cater to anything. If you want to see how
you performed vs the Neon look at the PAX numbers. PAX is where your time and
the Neon's time are adjusted to account for differences in car power, steering,
etc. Compare your time with those in your class, don't worry about the Neon's
and other 'shitbox cars' until you start beating their times.

We have several Regional Champion Neons that we race with ... my husband and
I have both beat them in our VR-4. We've also lost. As you gain skill you tend
to get even better ... a stock VR-4 races in AS, a stock Neon is DS. So realistically
your car has a better chance to be quicker. Don't be suprised when Neon's and
Miata's and MR2 Turbos win... take those as encouragement to do better. When
you are good enough (or they are BAD enough!) you start to beat them ALL. I
have and you can.

One thing I found is to GO LIKE HECK when you have a straight... brake late
and take advantage of the AWD/AWS in the turns. You will be amazed at what you
can do. I've had drivers of MOD Cars borrow my car when theirs blew up... they
LOVED the VR-4. In general you can usually put the car in 2nd and go... you
won't get a chance to top off second and you usually don't have to downshift
to 1st unless it is an absolute hairpin. Take time to walk the course with the
local experts before racing. They can give you pointers on the line to run and
how to approach options slolams (sp?) etc. Take advantage of the incredible
launches you can get.

I hope this helps... stick with it and you can get good... even start beating
the 'shitbox' cars :)

Nissa
95 VR-4



Don't mess in the affairs of dragons.
For you are crunchy and go good with ketchup.
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 18:34:53 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S: Eibach Springs; Installation nightmare; Help!

Nightmare Part I:
I brought in my '94 Stealth to my Dodge dealer to have Eibach Pro-Kit
springs installed.  The service manager said he didn't know what to
charge, but it was the same amount of work as replacing the
MacPhersons, so that's what they'd charge me (roughly $380, including
alignment).  I got a diagram from Ron Thompson and instructions how to
enlarge the mounting holes (that being necessary to bring the
alignment back to spec) and I shared that with the service mgr.  The
next day he called and told me there were FOUR springs (duh) and he
had only quoted me price for 2!  I told him that I'd gotten a price
from a small shop in town for all 4 for $250 (+ alignment), but I used
his dealership since they were experienced with Stealths.  I
reluctantly gave him the OK to go ahead...  At the end of the day he
called again and said that they had worked ALL day trying to get them
installed, with no luck and he 'just wanted to make sure his tech got
paid for his time' but would "roll back" the final price.  His call
made me "edgy" so I checked the Eibach site, which says it should take
1.5hrs for the fronts, 1.3hrs for the rears, total 2.8hrs.  But I'm
afraid to see what his final bill will be...  QUESTIONS: What have you
guys paid to have Eibachs installed???  How much more for alignment?

Nightmare Part II:
I thought I'd be picking up the car today, but the service mgr told me
that while removing the eccentric bolt that adjusts the lower control
arm it broke off!  They were waiting for an overnight delivery, but it
still hadn't arrived.  He claimed that there was 'extra undercoating'
and that the bolt had been 'over-torqued'.  Of course I reminded him
that it either came that way from the factory or was something THEY at
the dealership had previously done, since the car never had any other
work done on it other than in his shop.  QUESTIONS:  Has anyone else
had experience with these bolts being a problem?  Any suggestions?

TIA,

Forrest


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 18:55:09 -0700
From: Steve Saeedi <saeedi@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Eibach Springs; Installation nightmare; Help!

At 6:34 PM -0700 8/19/99, Bob Forrest wrote:
>Nightmare Part I:
>I brought in my '94 Stealth to my Dodge dealer to have Eibach Pro-Kit
>springs installed.  The service manager said he didn't know what to
>charge, but it was the same amount of work as replacing the
>MacPhersons, so that's what they'd charge me (roughly $380, including
>alignment).  I got a diagram from Ron Thompson and instructions how to
>enlarge the mounting holes (that being necessary to bring the
>alignment back to spec) and I shared that with the service mgr.  The
>next day he called and told me there were FOUR springs (duh) and he
>had only quoted me price for 2!  I told him that I'd gotten a price
>from a small shop in town for all 4 for $250 (+ alignment), but I used
>his dealership since they were experienced with Stealths.  I
>reluctantly gave him the OK to go ahead...  At the end of the day he
>called again and said that they had worked ALL day trying to get them
>installed, with no luck and he 'just wanted to make sure his tech got
>paid for his time' but would "roll back" the final price.  His call
>made me "edgy" so I checked the Eibach site, which says it should take
>1.5hrs for the fronts, 1.3hrs for the rears, total 2.8hrs.  But I'm
>afraid to see what his final bill will be...  QUESTIONS: What have you
>guys paid to have Eibachs installed???  How much more for alignment?

$250 Eibach installation. (These guys had never worked on Stealths before and quoted me what they would charge for Hondas.  Yes!  But they spent ALL day on it and were bound by the price they quoted me)

$60 for a 4 wheel alignment. 

- - Steve

>
>Nightmare Part II:
>I thought I'd be picking up the car today, but the service mgr told me
>that while removing the eccentric bolt that adjusts the lower control
>arm it broke off!  They were waiting for an overnight delivery, but it
>still hadn't arrived.  He claimed that there was 'extra undercoating'
>and that the bolt had been 'over-torqued'.  Of course I reminded him
>that it either came that way from the factory or was something THEY at
>the dealership had previously done, since the car never had any other
>work done on it other than in his shop.  QUESTIONS:  Has anyone else
>had experience with these bolts being a problem?  Any suggestions?
>
>TIA,
>
>Forrest
>
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 22:45:46 -0400
From: Ron Thompson <rtetetet@earthlink.net>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Eibach Springs; Installation nightmare; Help!

  QUESTIONS: What have you
> guys paid to have Eibachs installed???  How much more for alignment?

The time sound right for install that you got from the site, and at
$52 / hr. that would be $160 plus four wheel alignment at about $60
and suspension mods at 2 hrs. add $110. Total $340. I bought mine from
my guy and he put them in for $100.

>
> Nightmare Part II:
 QUESTIONS:  Has anyone else
> had experience with these bolts being a problem?  Any suggestions?

Boy Howdy, that's a 19 mm bolt! I heard them strip them, but break
it??? Well yeah, if you over tighten it. They could have stripped the
head that has the eccentric, it's a little short on the head depth,
and had to cut it off. Their problem either way. It doesn't sound like
the technician is very slick. I wouldn't pay for the inexperience of
the guy. You know they bill you for what the shop manual says it will
take to do a certain job. If they run over it's their fault. If they
under cut it, they don't reduce the price to you. I'd stand hard on
paying more than $350, and that is still high.

Ron
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 21:48:37 -0500
From: "Oskar" <swede@pclink.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Eibach Springs; Installation nightmare; Help!

QUESTIONS: What have you
>guys paid to have Eibachs installed???  How much more for alignment?
>


I had RS*R springs, rotors, pads & stainless brake lines installed on all
for corners for $350.  I then took the car to an independent shop for a $65
alignment.  They were able to bring it to spec without elongating the holes.
I also had Ron's excellent drawings at hand.  I believe the RS*Rs have a
less drop than the Eibachs, but I don't see that this should make a
difference in the price of the installation.

I had two other quotes for the work, both over $800 so I knew I was getting
a good deal.  I believe it took them a bit longer than anticipated, but they
stood by their quote and didn't fuzz about it.

I have had shop estimates exceeded on more than one occasion.  Whether
verbal or written you can most often get them to stick to the original
estimate.  Bob, you have a pretty good case going here.  Sure, the manager
claims he quoted you for 2 springs.  I don't believe people install lowering
springs in only one end of the car.  It is pretty much a clear-cut case that
you do it all around!!  The fault is his and he should not expect you to pay
for that.  I also find it hard to believe that the shop rate is $380 for 2
springs, that would make it a $600-700 job for four corners.  You could
easily follow up on that with another dealer.

Good luck
Oskar
'95 R/T TT

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Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 20:16:35 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Eibach Springs; Installation nightmare; Help!

> Nightmare Part I:

<snip>
> His call
> made me "edgy" so I checked the Eibach site, which says it should take
> 1.5hrs for the fronts, 1.3hrs for the rears, total 2.8hrs.  But I'm
> afraid to see what his final bill will be...  QUESTIONS: What have you
> guys paid to have Eibachs installed???  How much more for alignment?

Good Lord.  I was quoted $160 by an indpendant alignment shop for
installation of four springs plus an all wheel alignment.  Ended up paying
them $200 after post installation negotiation due to a few unforseen
problems due to no fault of their own (dealership has messed up the steering
rack boots -- alignment guys wanted to fix it).  They lost $100 on the deal
but we parted ways satisfied.

> Nightmare Part II:

<snip>

QUESTIONS:  Has anyone else
> had experience with these bolts being a problem?  Any suggestions?

Bolts will break, even big ole 19 mm ones (although rarely -- they probably
got silly with an impact wrench -- morons).

Be prepared for grief, IMO.  My car will never see the pavement of a
dealership while I own it.  I am done with them.  Of the four Mitsu dealers
in the valley I have been burned and completely dissatisfied too many times.
I like the car, the dealerships in my area seem to have chronic moronitis
and incompetent technicians.  No, I'm not bitter ;)

Best of luck.  Don't take any crap.


Barry

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------------------------------

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