--
From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #245
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
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Precedence:
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Team3S Digest
Saturday, July 31 1999 Volume 01
: Number
245
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 30 Jul 1999 23:43:29 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject:
Team3S: New shock design
I'm gonna forward this from Dennis :
Dg B
wrote:
>
> Hello folks,
>
> I was
recently pointed to an article in a mechanical engineering
> maagazine
which was discussing a new shock absorber design by a company
> called
Magneshock. (Magnetorheological shock)
>
> The idea seems to be
pure genius. Basically, instead of a normal shock, the
> Magneshock
has a special fluid with electro-responsive particles inside. In
>
the center of the shock lies an electromagnet. When the electromagnet
is
> activated, the particles in the shock chain up and alter the
viscosity of
> the fluid, changing its damping coefficient.
>
> This gives the shock infinite damping adjustability (within
reason).
>
> After a quick net search, the Magneshock is for sale
by a company called
> Carrera shocks. (http://www.carrerashocks.com/MagneShock.htm)
>
Though very expensive for now, the shock seems to be ideal for many,
many
> applications (beyond just automobiles).
>
> Has anyone
looked at this shock before, or heard about it?
>
> It seems that,
if effective, the shock would be an amazing leap up from
> current
suspension technology. Imagine shocks that could instantaneously
>
alter damping coefficients to an extremely fine level!
>
> Any
opinions?
>
> Regards,
> Dennis
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:04:16 -0700
From: "Murat Okcuoglu" <murat@ashacorp.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Oil pressure problem.
Replace filter, sometimes bad filters
reduce pressure.
On my brand new engine, I get two notches above zero, at
low idle when oil
is really hot.
Is this normal?
on my previous
mitsu's, I discovered that the greatest contributor to oil
pressure is the
turbo bearings.
In this car, turbos are 63K old.
I use W50
Mobil 1, it is the best oil money can buy (a Castrol racing team
uses it!!)
It is safe in CA or other hot climates.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:15:43 -0700
From: "Murat Okcuoglu" <murat@ashacorp.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Oil pressure problem.
My oil pressure is right at the lower edge
of the oil can figure on the
gauge, at 2500 RPM hot. Is this normal? this is
my second engine, first one
blew up due to low oil pressure.
I also
noticed the oil pressure goes up slightly when it gets hot. Is this
due to
oil thermostat allowing better flow?
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:16:23 -0700
From: "Murat Okcuoglu" <murat@ashacorp.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Magnarheological fluids
This is real, but not so new.
Yes, it has
the potential to revolutionize suspension and
TRANSMISSION
design.
Difficulties so far have been the abrasiveness of
the fluid, stability of
the fluid (particles are suspended in the solution
therefore susceptible to
precipitation), thermal stability and
breakdown.
Potential is there, as the quality of the fluid is improved
and price comes
down. Current price of the fluid is $300 a
quart.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 31 Jul 1999 17:23:38 -0500
From: Del A Kolasinski <pearlvr42c@juno.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Kormax Transmissions
This morning locked up the good old transfer
case on the way to work,
nothing like a screaching hault around a freeway off
ramp at 50mph.
Anyways I've been working the phones today and would like
some feedback
from people who have dealt with Kormax Transmissions in
California.
Talked with Frank and he said with my core I can get a
used/rebuilt 5
speed transmission, transfer case, and output shaft for $1,700
plus
shipping to Wisconsin. I called back twice just to make sure this
was
for real and sure enough. But I want to know from all of you out
there
how reliable is this place as far as actually having good syncros,
I'm
sick of my grinding 1-2 shift and want to fix it all in one shot.
Please
let me know what you all think.
Thanks,
Del Kolasinski
PEARLVR42C@juno.com
wisc.dsm.org
___________________________________________________________________
Get
the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free
Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:26:05 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Kormax Transmissions
The key here is the term you used --- used/rebuilt
--- the only new parts
are likely to be bearings and seals. At this time
there are NO, NONE, NADA
new synchros, you can only get used/good synchros or
worse used/bad
synchros.I have heard good reports about
Kormax.
Jim
Berry
================================================
> This
morning locked up the good old transfer case on the way to work,
> nothing
like a screaching hault around a freeway off ramp at 50mph.
> Anyways
I've been working the phones today and would like some feedback
> from
people who have dealt with Kormax Transmissions in California.
> Talked
with Frank and he said with my core I can get a used/rebuilt 5
> speed
transmission, transfer case, and output shaft for $1,700 plus
> shipping
to Wisconsin
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 31 Jul 1999 07:28:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: ie886@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John
T. Christian)
Subject: Team3S: 13Gs finished
Hi all,
Finished
installing the 13Gs. Took much longer than Barry's 2hrs front and
4 hrs
rear. More like 2 days and 4 days, but I'm just a back
yard
mechanic......
If you ever have a need to change
turbos yourself, don't believe the
service manual that says you need totake
off the radiator, AC, generator,
intake manifold, etc. You
don't.
You will need every 14mm socket/drive that Craftsman makes
including
swivels. New studs for the new turbos will save much time and
physical
strength.
The good news is that the turbos work. But I
still have the 3rd gear
stutter.
Many thanks to Barry, Jack T, Roger,
Todd & Bob for their advice and
encouragement on my first major TT engine
operation.
Be of good cheer
- --
JCZoooM '93 Stealth TT Blue almost
stock 12.46 @109 MPH
e-mail: ie886@po.cwru.edu www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 31 Jul 1999 07:50:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: ie886@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John
T. Christian)
Subject: Team3S: Stutter
Hi all,
My TT still
breaks up/stutters in 3rd gear above 5000RPM. I first noticed
the
stutter on the back straight at Mid Ohio last Fall and it seemed to
get
worse. When I blew the rear turbo at Road Atlanta in Nov. I thought
aaaaahh that rotten turbo is the problem.
I replaced the stock turbos
with 13Gs and the stutter is still here. Well
really, it seems
worse. I cannot accelerate thru 1st gear without breakup.
Or any
other gear for that matter. I can get to redline in 3rd gear IF
I
modulate the throttle to keep the boost <5psi.
I replaced
the negative battery terminal as the bolt for the cables came
out of the
lead. It didn't solve the stutter.
Perhaps I disturbed a sensor
somewhere. I had scribed the throttle cable
location on the intake
manifold before I unbolted it and replaced it in the
same location. The
O2 sensors didn't seem clogged.
The air tube going into the intake air
side of the rear turbo has a fitting
in it plugged with a screw. Should
there be a sensor connected???
The plugs/wires were new at the 60k
maintenance which was 20k ago.
As a seat of the pants assessment, it
feels as if the car is drowning in
fuel.
Lifetime member of the dirty
fingernails club.
- --
JCZoooM '93 Stealth TT
Blue almost stock 12.46 @109 MPH
e-mail:
ie886@po.cwru.edu www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 31 Jul 1999 10:17:26 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Stutter
I would look at replacing the plugs, including
regapping them.
Even though you have 20,000 miles on the plugs, they are
most likely worn
out. Plan on accelerating all maintenance items when
you put the car
through "severe duty" This includes changing oil after
every race session.
Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#
3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On
Behalf Of John T. Christian
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 1999 6:51 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com;
stealth-d@starnet.net
Cc: bsc4@po.cwru.edu; thetek@cwix.com; ie886@po.cwru.edu
Subject: Team3S:
Stutter
Hi all,
My TT still breaks up/stutters in 3rd gear above
5000RPM. I first noticed
the stutter on the back straight at Mid Ohio
last Fall and it seemed to get
worse. When I blew the rear turbo at
Road Atlanta in Nov. I thought
aaaaahh that rotten turbo is the
problem.
I replaced the stock turbos with 13Gs and the stutter is still
here. Well
really, it seems worse. I cannot accelerate thru 1st
gear without breakup.
Or any other gear for that matter. I can
get to redline in 3rd gear IF I
modulate the throttle to keep the boost
<5psi.
I replaced the negative battery terminal as the bolt for the
cables came
out of the lead. It didn't solve the
stutter.
Perhaps I disturbed a sensor somewhere. I had scribed the
throttle cable
location on the intake manifold before I unbolted it and
replaced it in the
same location. The O2 sensors didn't seem
clogged.
The air tube going into the intake air side of the rear turbo
has a fitting
in it plugged with a screw. Should there be a sensor
connected???
The plugs/wires were new at the 60k maintenance which was
20k ago.
As a seat of the pants assessment, it feels as if the car is
drowning in
fuel.
Lifetime member of the dirty fingernails
club.
- --
JCZoooM '93 Stealth TT
Blue almost stock 12.46 @109 MPH
e-mail:
ie886@po.cwru.edu www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 31 Jul 1999 11:29:33 -0400
From: William Lynn Larsen <wlarsen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Oil pressure problem.
Matt,
Living in FL, I would definitely go
with the 50W Mobil1. That is what I
use and I live in NC, but used to live in
FL (Tampa/Winter Haven). I
think this will help you on both. I used to use
Castrol Syntec 5W-50 and
just switched to Mobil1 and it has helped my lash
adjuster noise a lot.
Someone else mentioned that the oil pressure went
up as it got hot. This
is your multiweight oil doing what it is supposed to:
as the temperature
of the oil goes up, so does its viscosity. I have
always seen my max
oil pressure after a half hour on the interstate with the
A/C on. In
the cold winter my oil pressure never gets over half way up
the gauge,
but I just have to have faith that the oil viscosity is right for
the
temp of the engine. My first winter in Raleigh, I switched back
to
Castrol 20-50 turbo oil because it un-nerved me
so.
Regards,
Lynn
Matt wrote:
> >range of markings,
almost 2 lines below. Should I use a Thicker or
> >thinner weight oil?
I do live in florida, and the heat is some factor,
> >but now the
lifters or something under there is making a loud ticking,
> >and I
don't know what to do. Any ideas?
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 31 Jul 1999 12:04:25 -0400
From: mark kibort <mkibort@compuserve.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Dyno/eRAM..., eRacing responds...
Thanks for the welcome, I
hope I can answer any more questions in my small
area of expertise.
I was
reading some of the recent posts and there is lots of good
information flying
around here.
Fire away regarding any "hair dryer" inseries questions or
anything
regarding to air flow. (Ill see what I can
do)
Ill check out your dyno runs for the losses . Generally,
you cant
determine the losses from the gear train from these graphs, only
the
rollling friction from the cost down, that includes rubber to dyno
wheel
friction, bearing, and rear diff losses. I JUST THOUGHT OF
SOMETHING. Are
you looking at the total "negative HP" on the
graph? If so, REMEMBER that
the compression is causing the large HP
costs on the cost down if it still
is in gear. I remember
looking at my curve and saw the 100 hp losses.
When we did the neutral coast
down, it went down to 20 hp. (Which follows
the calculated losses of 20
hp for rolling and rear diff, and 20 more for
transmission, for a total of 40
hp on a 250 hp rear wheel dyno run. (or
16% total )
Mark
Kibort
eRACING
www.electricsupercharger.com
Message
text written by "R.G."
>First I'd give Mark a warm welcome to the Team3S
list and I'm happy to
have
more pros that can give us some insights behind
the tech ;-)
Second, thanks a lot for all the answers answered in a great
way. I do have
some more questions and the hairdryer example (LOL) is one
that is not yet
clear. Please stay tuned as I'll do my first Water Injection
runs and logs
tomorrow and I have to regain some energy from the looong
nights in
Amsterdam, hehe.
Later,
Roger
PS : Mark, please
check out the dynosheets on my homepage under (February
dyno session) for
ther tranny loss. We do this the same way as you do and
the figures are
pretty close to Subarus, Audis and Porsche Carrera 4
losses.
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/3000gt.html
<
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 1 Aug 1999 12:01:03 -0500
From: "Gabriel Estrada" <typhoonzz@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Stutter
Check all of the vacuum lines. When I was
having a similar problem with my
VR-4, I went through and changed all of the
plugs, wires, air filter, fuel
filter and changed the oil. It didn't
make any difference what-so-ever.
Went through and found a vacuum line had
cracked. Replaced it with new
silicone lines and the car runs 10x
stronger. Check out
www.bakerprecision.com for new lines
that are much nicer than the crappy
rubber hose you get at part
stores.
Hope this helps with the problem.
Gabe Estrada
94 Pearl Yellow
3000GT VR-4
92 Gmc Typhoon
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Brad
Bedell <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
To: John T.
Christian <ie886@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>;
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent:
Saturday, July 31, 1999 10:17 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Stutter
>
My TT still breaks up/stutters in 3rd gear above 5000RPM. I first
noticed
> the stutter on the back straight at Mid Ohio last Fall and it
seemed to
get
> worse. When I blew the rear turbo at Road Atlanta
in Nov. I thought
> aaaaahh that rotten turbo is the
problem.
>
> I replaced the stock turbos with 13Gs and the stutter
is still here. Well
> really, it seems worse. I cannot
accelerate thru 1st gear without
breakup.
> Or any other gear for
that matter. I can get to redline in 3rd gear IF I
> modulate the
throttle to keep the boost <5psi.
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 31 Jul 1999 09:51:35 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Welcome to eRacing... (was: Dyno/eRAM...)
Hey, Mark,
And another
welcome... to you and your eRacing Team, and a "thank you" for
taking so much
time to try and make your eRAM products yield maximum
performance on our
3000GT's and Stealths. With any luck, we can help each
other-- I
think you have one of those products that may prove to be of
additional
benefit to us, not just for the HP gains, but because we're going
to learn
something more about the operation of our engines. And in
having
another sophisticated platform on which to test the eRAM, hopefully
you'll
realize an even better product in its future incarnations as
well.
Knowledge is power...
Here's to both of us, and a long,
friendly, and mutually beneficial
relationship between eRacing and
Team3S.
Regards,
Forrest
- -----Original Message-----From:
mark kibort <mkibort@compuserve.com>
>Thanks
for the welcome, I hope I can answer any more questions in my small
>area
of expertise.
>I was reading some of the recent posts and there is lots of
good
>information flying around here.
>
>Fire away regarding
any "hair dryer" inseries questions or anything
>regarding to air
flow. (Ill see what I can do)
>
>Ill check out your dyno
runs for the losses . Generally, you cant
>determine the
losses from the gear train from these graphs, only the
>rollling friction
from the coast down, that includes rubber to dyno wheel
-
------snip--------
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 31 Jul 1999 10:07:54 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Dyno/eRAM..., eRacing responds...
- -----Original
Message-----From: mark kibort <mkibort@compuserve.com>
-
---------snip--------
>Ill check out your dyno runs for the losses
. Generally, you cant
>determine the losses from the gear
train from these graphs, only the
>rolling friction from the cost down,
that includes rubber to dyno wheel
>friction, bearing, and rear diff
losses. I JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING. Are
>you looking at the total
"negative HP" on the graph? If so, REMEMBER that
>the compression is
causing the large HP costs on the coast down if it still
>is in
gear. I remember looking at my curve and saw the 100 hp
losses.
>When we did the neutral coast down, it went down to 20 hp.
(Which follows
>the calculated losses of 20 hp for rolling and rear diff,
and 20 more for
>transmission, for a total of 40 hp on a 250 hp rear wheel
dyno run. (or
>16% total )
>
>Mark
Kibort
>eRACING
>www.electricsupercharger.com
Mark
makes a good point... When we did my dyno run when testing the
eRAM,
Terry (the dyno guru at Frey Racing) was most emphatic about
IMMEDIATELY
banging the clutch in as soon as we reached 5500 and doing the
coast-down in
neutral...
Forrest
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 31 Jul 1999 13:42:15 -0400
From: "Bob Rand" <rtr@vnet.net>
Subject: Team3S: Vacuume
hose
Hi guys could use some info. I am going to change all the
vacume lines on
my 93 Stealth TT. Was wondering if anyone knows the
different sizes of hose
needed and the approx. lengths of each to do the
job.
Thanks, Bob
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 31 Jul 1999 13:48:00 -0500
From: "Jeff" <spydervr4@home.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Dyno/eRAM..., eRacing responds...
Bob, out of curiosity, why were
you shutting it down at 5500rpm? Why not
take it to
redline?
jeff
'95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
'90 Mitsubishi Eclipse
GSX
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bob Forrest <bf@bobforrest.com>
To: mark kibort
<mkibort@compuserve.com>; R.G.
<robby@freesurf.ch>;
stealth
list <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date:
Saturday, July 31, 1999 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Dyno/eRAM..., eRacing
responds...
>Mark makes a good point... When we did my
dyno run when testing the eRAM,
>Terry (the dyno guru at Frey Racing) was
most emphatic about IMMEDIATELY
>banging the clutch in as soon as we
reached 5500 and doing the coast-down
in
>neutral...
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 01 Aug 1999 02:12:43 -0500
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Compressor Efficiency Theory, HP 9B vs 13G
RE: 9B vs 13G compressor
heating air/horsepower differences:
The mechanical DEVICE one uses to
compress air imparts heat to the
air, which is above and beyond the simple
physics of compressible
gas heating up on compression (to boost). For
automobile instance,
a Roots-type supercharger is VERY inefficient,
and
imparts ALOT of heat; it is a design from the 1930's.
Improved
designs have come out ("high-helix" Roots-type, etc) that really
work
better and heat air less per unit compression, but they work SO
well
that NHRA outlawed them because they could make cars too fast.
On
a turbo, the heat imparted to the volume of air compressed is
graphically
depicted on the "compressor map", is a 3-D graph.
On the left (of a 2-D map
on a sheet of paper) is the
"pressure ratio"=boost. On the bottom is
the
"air flow" = pounds per minute. Coming out toward you as
an
"island" in the middle of the graph is an oval-shaped area,
with
several "ovals" each inside the other, representing
"Efficiency
Islands"...SO, at a CERTAIN BOOST and a CERTAIN
AIRFLOW you
can find WHICH EFFICIENCY level the compressor
is at. Generally, a
turbo ranges between 50% and 80% efficient;
60% is the lower level desirable,
and the higher the better. As you
can see, a turbo operating at 60%
efficiency at high rpm and high
boost (9B at high rpm/power) will impart more
heat to the charge
than a WELL-PICKED turbo operating at 70-75%
efficiency.
At 20psi boost, turbo outlet temps are 320 F at 70%
compressor
efficiency island. If you have 60% efficiency, that would be
373 F
or so. There is about 1% more power for every 10 degrees
lower
intake temp, so the 53 degree difference would be about 25 hp,
or
2mph in quartermile.
A mitigating factor is that the higher the
discharge temp from the
turbo, the greater the delta T across the
INTERCOOLER, so the
intercooler works better and better as temps go up, so
the 53 degree
difference above MIGHT only be ?? 35-45degrees by the time
it
gets to the intake manifold.
I do NOT have compressor maps of the
9B vs. the 13G, but based on the
rated airflows (265 cfm @15psi for 9B,
360cfm @15psi for 13G, a
36% increase in airflow at SAME pressure=can
maintain SAME pressure
at a 36% higher rpm) the 13G is clearly going to be on
a higher efficiency
island at high compressor speeds, probably 6-10% higher,
so the round
guesstimate example of 70% vs 60% above may not be that far off,
in
some of the powerband at least; maybe 1-2mph based on compressor
design
13G vs. 9B at same boost setting.
Of note, the "G" in 13G denotes a
somewhat more efficient compressor
BLADE design than the "B" in 9B; the G
design is slightly more efficient
at higher boost/pressure ratios than the
B. For instance, "back in the day"
when I was researching turbos for my
car and looking into getting something
better than the 13G offered direct
from Mitsu, I spoke with Mitsu Heavy
Industries Turbocharger Division
engineers and hashed some things out.
I was considering getting a 14B
compressor wheel instead of the 13G but
they said the 14B "don't flow for
shit", and are not as good as the 13G I
already had. The Mitsubishi
300ZX upgrade, a TD04HL-15C-8.5cm^2
unit, uses a "C" design that works ok
below 20psi but is less efficient
than the "G", especially at high
boost. The 15C is rated at 390cfm.
The 15G TEC upgrade is "rated" at
460cfm as I recall, but I am not sure
at what pressure; if 15psi, the 70cfm
difference serves to show some
of the importance of the wheel
design.
In short, it matters "alot" what compresses the air, whether 9B,
13/15/17G, or
gerbils. Whether a few mph in quartermile are important
to an individual is
what defines "alot" for each of us...
Jack
Tertadian
Road Warrior Contingent, 3S mailing lists :)
Jim
Berry wrote:
> I keep seeing the statement that somehow the 13G
produces more 02 at say
> 15psi than the 9B does at 15 psi.
> I see
no reason for air temp of 13G to be lower than
> 9B--you are doubling
pressure 14. 7 PSIA to 29.7
> PSIA so compression heating will
double temp at outlet of
> turbo. There should be small heat
gain from heat of
> turbo itself but I expect it a small percentage
of the change.
> air temp should be about same whether
>
generated by 13G or 6 pack gerbils on treadmill. I see no scientific
>
evidence to support theory that 13G's are more efficient and
> beat air
charge less.
> Jim Berry
>
> >
>At say, 5000 rpm and 15psi, an engine with 13G turbos will deliver
more
> > >horsepower than an engine with 9Gs, everything else being
equal.
>
> > We definitely found better mid power/torque
but
> > not real power gain. 13G works more effective as
> >
discharge temperatures are noticeably lower than 9Bs (measured in
> >
the y-pipe).
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------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 31 Jul 1999 23:20:53 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Dyno/eRAM..., dyno stuff
> Ill check out your dyno runs for
the losses . Generally, you cant
> determine the losses from
the gear train from these graphs, only the
> rollling friction from the
cost down, that includes rubber to dyno wheel
> friction, bearing, and
rear diff losses. I JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING. Are
> you looking at
the total "negative HP" on the graph? If so, REMEMBER that
> the
compression is causing the large HP costs on the cost down if it still
>
is in gear.
This makes me thinking. As far as I remember, the dyno was
set to the "loss
measuring mode" (or something like that) and the operator
drove the car in
4th gear up to about 6k and the left off the gas. The
computer then drawed
the curve. To be honest, I can't remember if he pressed
the clutch then,
switched to neutral or left it in fourth. If i recall
correctly it was the
later.
> I remember looking at my curve
and saw the 100 hp losses.
> When we did the neutral coast down, it went
down to 20 hp. (Which follows
> the calculated losses of 20 hp for
rolling and rear diff, and 20 more for
> transmission, for a total of 40
hp on a 250 hp rear wheel dyno run. (or
> 16% total )
But how
did you got the 20hp loss on the tranny ? I'd say pressing the
clutch will
show the real loss as the tranny is still in fourth and the
whole resistance
(including rolling friction) of the tranny with rear diff,
transaxle, etc
just before the flywheel would be measured. What do you
think
?
Roger
93'3000GT TT
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