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From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #228
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
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Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest          Sunday, July 11 1999          Volume 01 : Number 228




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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 00:55:00 EDT
From: FLYGUY678@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Mods for a NT.. possible and theoretical

I was racing my 97 NT against an integra the other day, i am embarrased to
say that i lost not by much but i did. my car is mostly stock except for the
costom muffler.  but i still  feell like i need more power off the start.
what would be the next best mod that i should do?
ivan
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 06:58:35 -0700
From: Bruce Body <bbody@pacbell.net>
Subject: Team3S: J.D. Power vs. Mitsu Survey (Getrag Tranny Probs)

This is being posted to 3Si.org and the Team3S Tech List (and probably
other Mitsu/DSM sites and lists).

I recently had my 95 VR4 serviced at my local Mitsu Dealership. Today in
the mail I received a Mitsubishi commissioned survey from J.D. Power &
Associates regarding the quality of my repairs and Mitsu in general.
J.D. Power is one of the most respected and quoted of all survey
companies worldwide. Of interest, they ask if you would buy another
Mitsu vehicle. There is also a place for comments at the end of the
survey.

I am going to answer this survey using my own name and state that I love
the car but would definitely NOT buy another Mitsu car, or any other
Mitsu product for that matter. (I also own a Mitsu 35" TV and VCR). I am
going to state my knowledge regarding the lack of concern for the
customer and specifically the Getrag tranny problems and the swapout
policy even for something as simple as a seal leak at $4000-6000 USD
plus. I will also state that customers have contacted Mitsu North
America, Mitsu Japan, Getrag and the NTSB about this problem, and other
chronic problems with Mitsu cars, all to no avail. Maybe some bad
publicity through J.D. Powers & Associates will get noticed by Mitsu
and acted upon.

THIS SURVEY IS ALSO ONLINE!!! at http://www.jdpower.com/servicevip. You
will need a code to access the survey. It is 8 characters. I tried many
combinations based on my code and it seems that the first character
should be a zero, then six random digits, then an UPPER CASE "K"
(without quotes). If you have problems accessing the survey email me
privately with details and I'll try to help.

I urge all TT owners to respond to this survey and give your experiences
and/or concerns regarding the Getrag fiasco and maybe Mitsu will be
forced to deal with this issue in the public domain. I wonder what
Consumer Reports, Car & Driver, Road & Track and Motor Trend, etc. could
do to the Eclipse and Montereo's sales based on Mitsubishi's tranny
repair and general customer service policy. Perhaps some media attention
will get them to wake up.

Bruce
3si #0243
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 13:51:20 -0400
From: Jason Barnhart <phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: J.D. Power vs. Mitsu Survey (Getrag Tranny Probs)

Heck, maybe it's worth mentioning the DSM's AWD transfer case recall.  You know, the one
that affected ALL DSM's (Eclips, Laser, and Talon) from 90 to around 98.  The same one
the DSM list had been trying to get Mitsu to do for YEARS.  The same one that resulted
in AWD lockups leading to atleast a couple deaths.  The same recall that caused Mitsu to
withdraw any support to the DSM list and probably others because Mitsu was pissed off
that the DSMers pushed so hard, Mitsu didn't see a problem with the xfer case.  Hey,
even if you're dead, atleast they got the money for the car, right?

Jason

Bruce Body wrote:

> This is being posted to 3Si.org and the Team3S Tech List (and probably
> other Mitsu/DSM sites and lists).
>
> I recently had my 95 VR4 serviced at my local Mitsu Dealership. Today in
> the mail I received a Mitsubishi commissioned survey from J.D. Power &
> Associates regarding the quality of my repairs and Mitsu in general.
> J.D. Power is one of the most respected and quoted of all survey
> companies worldwide. Of interest, they ask if you would buy another
> Mitsu vehicle. There is also a place for comments at the end of the
> survey.
>
> I am going to answer this survey using my own name and state that I love
> the car but would definitely NOT buy another Mitsu car, or any other
> Mitsu product for that matter. (I also own a Mitsu 35" TV and VCR). I am
> going to state my knowledge regarding the lack of concern for the
> customer and specifically the Getrag tranny problems and the swapout
> policy even for something as simple as a seal leak at $4000-6000 USD
> plus. I will also state that customers have contacted Mitsu North
> America, Mitsu Japan, Getrag and the NTSB about this problem, and other
> chronic problems with Mitsu cars, all to no avail. Maybe some bad
> publicity through J.D. Powers & Associates will get noticed by Mitsu
> and acted upon.
>
> THIS SURVEY IS ALSO ONLINE!!! at http://www.jdpower.com/servicevip. You
> will need a code to access the survey. It is 8 characters. I tried many
> combinations based on my code and it seems that the first character
> should be a zero, then six random digits, then an UPPER CASE "K"
> (without quotes). If you have problems accessing the survey email me
> privately with details and I'll try to help.
>
> I urge all TT owners to respond to this survey and give your experiences
> and/or concerns regarding the Getrag fiasco and maybe Mitsu will be
> forced to deal with this issue in the public domain. I wonder what
> Consumer Reports, Car & Driver, Road & Track and Motor Trend, etc. could
> do to the Eclipse and Montereo's sales based on Mitsubishi's tranny
> repair and general customer service policy. Perhaps some media attention
> will get them to wake up.
>
> Bruce
> 3si #0243
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 10:48:13 -0700
From: David Chen <Neubine@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: J.D. Power vs. Mitsu Survey (Getrag Tranny Probs)

Amen,

    I jsut had to swap my tranny on my 94 3000GT VR-4 and it cost me $3800 even with a
10% discount. It really sucks how GETRAG and Mitsu has a closed tranny policy. Also on
my part i've oreder manyn parts from Mitsu and to me they've all been grossly
overpriced. Thier cost on trannies is 2200. Jezz..... do they really need to make $1600
on a tranny. I urge people to write tot his survey and complain how thier relationships
with thier customers is really poor and how maintenace is too high.

BTW: One note the guy who works at my Mitsu Dealer Rob will give 20% discount to people
on this list. Stevens Creek Courtesy Mitsu Dealership. Also he can order Japanese Mitsu
parts if you have the part number. Including Factory Modified Police Versions ECUs (Much
better then I think G-Force could do it). And Japanese rear tail lights (Their Yellow
Orange Clear Instead of a Hazy Red). Rob tells me that many dealerships can do this
already but it depends if they want to.

David Chen
94 VR-4
Neubine@ix.netcom.com

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 14:28:32 -0400
From: William Lynn Larsen <wlarsen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Mods for a NT.. possible and theoretical

Steve and Mike,

I have been thinking along the same lines as you all have, but with a
minor wrinkle: I would like to replace the very restrictive MAS with a
MAF.  The MAF uses a single wire accross the air flow rather than
forcing all of the air through honeycomb affair.  Right now SplitSecond
is the only vendor I know of with a MAF and the ARC2-GP A/F meter that
will massage the MAF output for our ECU and it will also compensate for
the changes introduced by MAF itself, better flowing intake plumbing and
the larger bore throttle body. This system will work but leaves a lot to
be desired.

There is a vendor, EFI, that make an absolutely perfect MAF system, but
not for our cars. They make them for DSM cars and Vettes, camaros,
mustangs, hondas, etc but not ours. If anybody knows these guys or has a
relative who does, we sure could use any influence we could muster to
get them to produce a kit for our cars.  It shouldn't be that much
different than the kits they already product for the DSM cars.

There have been some discussions about turbocharging our cars.  We are
somewhat limited in the amount of boost we can run because of the 10:1
compression ratio.  We would also have to have a VERY reliable boost
limiting system as our engines would be even less tolerant of overboost
than the TT cars.  I believe that Roger determined that a single stock
turbo would be more than adequate.  If only there were a kit available,
I think supercharging is a much more elegant solution for us than turbos
as it doesn't suffer from the lag of turbos which occurs in the exact
area of the power curve where we need the most help.

Regards,
Lynn

Michael Booker wrote:
>
> Is there somebody that can fabricate the custom intake from stainless
> steel? If so, I have an idea that will get a ram-air system going. I was
> thinking, if the pipe can incorporate the MAS and extend down and into
> the space where the TT's have intercoolers...What about a 90 degree
> bend, and an HKS super mega flow filter placed so that teh air is rammed
> into it. It would get a slight ram effect, and the air would be cooler
> coming from outside the engine bay. Anybody know where there is a
> fabricator that could do this type of work?
>
> Thanks.
> Matt
> #311
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 14:45:09 -0400
From: "Fred Richardson" <rich@mail.magma.ca>
Subject: Team3S: HKS SBOV installation

Hi All;
I don't know if it's been covered before, but this is one of those simple
little things that maunufacturers don't seem to put in their instructions.
It may save somebody some frustration.

    I just installed an HKS SBOV on my '95 TT and took it out for a test run
. When I got to fourth gear it was extremely hard shifting from there up.
The same situation obtained when I got home and tried to reverse into the
driveway.

    i opened the hood and saw that the BOV was tilted. I had installed it
dead level. On checking I found that the end of the transaxle control
assembly was being interfered with by the U air hose for the BOV that runs
under the MAS. I clipped bout 1 3/4 " off each end and re-installed. It
clears perfectly now.

Regards,
Fred

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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 23:05:20 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: starting problems

Your not getting an answer as there is no simple solution for your problem.
Even to search for the problem (like hairline cracks in the ECU) will take
up a long time and opening the ECU will void the warranty (if there is still
any). Anyway, you can just do the common tests and check and replacements
and so on but it's also possible that' you'll never find the problem :(( I
hope you will, as I can't help you further with the problem.

Good luck
Roger,
93'3000GT TT


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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 23:08:30 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Synthetic Oil --> Dinosaur Oil, GM EOS

Stay with synth and go up to 10W60 (I run in the summer). I never
experienced any loud lifter ticking even with 0W40 in the winter. I'd test
this at first before going back to dyno blood :)

Roger
93'3000GT TT

>Quick question:  Any cautions or warnings about switching from Syn to Dino?


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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 23:50:04 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Mods for a NT.. possible and theoretical

Guys, please review the post I made a while ago about the electric
supercharger stuff. Please also take a calculator and do your own math and
if you need them I can provide all the formulas. I'm sorry for the following
comments as some may just sound simple and somewhat rude. But I want to make
some things really clear !

>Engine:
>(1) Stainless steel pipe from the air filter to the throttle body which
>will then most likely be wrapped in a thermal wrap

No gain, you don't have turbos that heat up the air in the upstream. How
fast can the air that is traveling through the rubber parts be heated up ?
Nothing, plain nothing. Even more, if you want to gain of this timing and
fuel curve should be done too. But is this worth a "maybe gain" of 2.24 hp
??

>(2) Larger bore throttle body.

Why do you guys just think that the MAS and TB are restrictions to the NA
cars ??? This is BS, just calculate the amount of air in the best case can
be sucked in by an NA and you'll see that there is null problemo ! This is
different on the Turbos as there is much mor air flow as the air will be
compressed. AGain, read my post about the elec. Supercharger.

>(3) Custom exhaust

Less low, higher top end power

>(4) Magnecore 8.5mmwires  (with some other ignition goodies) w/ a
>complete tune-up and fuel injector cleaning

Wires will not give you anything on an NA. Plain and simple. What is a
tune-up ??
INJ cleaning is a good idea but with the same breath you have to say
removing any carbon build-up on the valves.

>Suspension, etc:
>(1) Eibach Springs
>(2) GAB Super HP springs all aroudn
>(3) 17" rims w/ 245 or larger (anyone know what's the largest I can run
>before running into problems)


A lot stuff is good, but do you want to go to the circle track with it ??

>Now, after all that, I'm hoping to hit a peak of 240-250hp and hold
>around .95 lateral G's (assuming the mags are right and I can hold
>.89G's stock)..... but that's still nothing off the line with FWD.

No way without making any real changement to the engine like headers,
removing cats, changing ignition, cams, boring out to 3.1 liter, increasing
compression ratio and so on.

>... and how difficult would it be to get a
>turbocharger (using the VR-4 stock stuff)? *maybe* even a supercharger
>fitted?

You have an NA 3000GT and therefore NOS MUST be your first choice. I do have
a 94'Camaro too and as I do have some good mods on the car the next stuff is
a supercharger, turbo setup, NOS or poting and CAM job. Guess what is the
cheapest version for the hp you can get. No need of a lot thinking here ;-)

Installing one 13G turbo would be fine but hey, a loong and painful project.
It's maybe not that expensive with stock parts but you have to do some good
piping jobs. No SC is avalble... sure, just look how many of such $2500
babies would be sold compared to Ford or Chevy setups. Oh, BTW, where would
you mount such a baby ? No chance .. the engine is just 90° installed in the
wrong way.
>
>Mainly, I'm looking at my options, but I don't know how many I have or
>where to begin. I'm all for suggestions on what to do and definitely
>what _not_ to do. All ideas welcome.


Not to do : engine: everything you listed

To do : like Bob said : 75hp NOS shot would be fine.

Comments to RAM air. This is another magic word but the only thing it does
is sucking more cold air in. This for sure is good but interestingly noboby
ever sent me some temp figures of gain or differences. Even more, whenever I
ask for measurable facts and figures all the voices are become very silent
then... why ?

Of course, everthing must be tried out first. And as a FWD car is easy to be
dynoed go on and show some figures. I calculated everythign for the electric
supercharger with 1psi of boost and I'm very interested it the outcome of
Bobs installation. But hey, don't expect anything from a less restrictive
intake. A SplitSecond can help you to go leaner and this means more horses.

Happy modding,
Roger
93'3000GT TT



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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 20:44:21 EDT
From: VVolverine@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: 94 r/t for sale

this guy i know is selling a 94 r/t for 12,500. it has a custom paint job
with racing stripes, it has 83k miles on it and it has been problem free. my
friends screen name and email adress is. BOYSTEALTH @aol.com. i told him i'd
help him out with selling it
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 20:56:07 EDT
From: VVolverine@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: major questions to ask

i'm planning what upgrades i'm going to do to my car. the 1st thing i'm going
to do is get this bad-*ss spoiler and an exaust then i want to focus on
making my car faster. how much hp increase does a larger intercooler make?
and how much might this cost. also what would be a good exaust to get. i want
something that sounds deep and gives good preformance. Anyone on this list
with a lot of upgrades on their turbo stealth please respond cause ur advise
would be very important to me
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 13:07:14 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Intercooler / exhaust upgrade (was : major questions to ask)

First, an intercooler does not make ponies. It's the gain in boost what
gives you the hp ! Intercooler upgrade ($1500-$2800) is one of the more
effective upgrades as a cooler discharged air is denser and lowers the
detonation point. Unfortunately, this will not help you on an otherwise
stock TT car. As usual the fuel system must be mentioned and on the paper
it's not able to deliver the needed fuel for boosts of more than 15psi
( This is the first step to do.

As you want another exhaust sound, just get rid of the huge muffler and
replace it with a smaller one. This is the cheapest way to get sound without
loss of performance. A larger exhaust will give you more benefit only when
other restrictions like the pre-cats have been removed.

Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT TT

>making my car faster. how much hp increase does a larger intercooler make?
>and how much might this cost. also what would be a good exaust to get. i
want
>something that sounds deep and gives good preformance.


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End of Team3S Digest V1 #228
****************************

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