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Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #212
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Team3S
Digest Monday, June 21
1999 Volume 01 : Number
212
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 20 Jun 1999 23:05:46 -0700
From: Joe Gonsowski <twinturbo@mediaone.net>
Subject:
Team3S: EVCIII, drag racing results, & more
For those who may have
been curious about my EVC III problem from an
earlier post, here is how I
resolved it. Remember that I had problems
holding boost, it tended to
increase with rpm. Mike (Michael Qwan sp?)
from HKS was a great help
and had me re-perform the self learning mode
at a higher initial rpm (2,500
instead of 1,000). This gave me better
boost control when finished
however I still observe boost creep (higher
boost than entered in EVC as
engine rpms increase) at lower boost levels
(9psi). One of the DSM guys
told me I probably cannot avoid this with
my setup (15G turbos with low
restriction exhaust) as the wastegate
cannot reroute enough exhaust gas to
maintain the low boost At higher
boost levels (12psi and above) the
EVCIII performs flawless, holding
desired boost until redline.
For
those interested, my results from Milan dragway (first time out
in
Stealth):
first two runs at low boost and easy launch/shifts netted
a pair of
13.8's at 103 & 106. Then I had my three best runs of the
day (8 total
runs):
60ft
1/8speed 1/4speed 1/4
ET
1.959
81.38
110.34
12.979
1.930
80.20
109.26
13.021
1.913
80.63
110.07 12.977
These three runs were
all at 16psi with a fuel rich A/F setting courtesy
of VPC. I think I'll
be purchasing a data logger soon to try and fine
tune at higher boost
levels. Anyone looking to get rid of one (& a
cheap
laptop)?
Complaints: I've raced several cars down the 1/4 over the
past few
years and none shift as poorly as my '92 Stealth. I wasted
lots of time
on my 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. Perhaps I was being overly
careful, but I
didn't dare to let off the clutch and get back on the gas
until a
complete shift was under my belt. I'm going to re-adjust the
clutch
pedal (right now it disengages/engages only when ALL the way to
the
floor) and bleed the system and hope this helps. As it sits, the
shifts
are pretty balky, perhaps my syncros are not up to snuff.
Also,
I find it very difficult to cut a good reaction time (ranged from
.73 to 1.4
on a .5 tree). Either I wait until my rpms are just where I
want them
(sacrificing a good reaction time) or go for the good reaction
time and
either bog or get off the gas because the rpms are too high.
I've yet to get
up to the line and just hold rpms where I want them and
unleash the beast on
the last amber light. This could be and probably
is just operator
error. Practice makes perfect.
BTW - There was a front drive Laser
there that ran a 12.03 at 120+ @
25psi, John I think. Nice/helpful
guy. Very impressive car for FWD!
Thanks,
Joe
Gonsowski
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------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 20 Jun 1999 20:45:10 -0700
From: Bruce Body <bbody@pacbell.net>
Subject: Team3S:
G-Tech Pro
Has anyone actually ran a side by side comparison at the
dragstrip with
the G-Tech Pro? I did and was so disappointed that I sent it
back. It
was very inconsistent ranging from fairly right on to being over
1
second optimistic as shown below. I wondered if mine might have
been
defective except my HP numbers were all fairly consistent. Below are
the
results from one session. I was dialing in my DSBC at the time so
my
times are generally awful as I was watching gauges, etc., but no way
was
I going 115-120 at the end of the 1/4. I'm curious as to what
others
experiences are because it was a fun toy and if mine was
defective,
maybe I'll try another one.
G-Tech
Pro Timeslip
13.08/115.0
14.231/98.339
13.43/118.7 14.426/100.213
14.93/105.0
14.933/98.097
14.15/112.7 14.895/99.629
12.68/120.2
13.930/99.825
13.31/116.4 14.096/101.280
12.43/119.8
13.302/104.770
The alignment was done per instructions and the unit was
perfectly level
at the starting line.
Bruce
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------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:39:50 -0400
From: Rob Corkum <twinturbo@home.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Doing a compression check -- Question
Hi all,
I'm quite a bit
behind on reading the digests since the starnet list is
back -- and it's a
good thing.
I started out to just replace the spark plugs and wires, but
decided to
also do a compression check and probably diagnose and replace a
lash
adjuster or two. (Of course my luck has it that the ticking is
coming
from the rear bank.) I will be doing some more mods if
everything
checks out ok.
On my '93 Stealth TT, I have the air plenum
off completely, the cables
and plugs are out, and the crankshaft position
sensor is unplugged. Is
there any reason why I can't get the engine to
crank over while this
way?
I figure either the battery has gone flat
enough to light lights and
all, but not enough to actually turn over the
starter -- unlikely but
possible I guess (what does it sound like or do if
this is the case?)...
or some vacuum connection or hose is important enough
that the car
doesn't feel it should try starting without it connected to
the
manifold/plenum, etc. There is also one grounding lead that is
removed
while taking off the intake.
Any ideas?
One last thing
for those that have had their plenum off, etc. My car
has about 82K
miles on it and the interior of the plenum was rather
black, caked with oily
soot about .5 mm thick, especially near the
outgoing air end of the
plenum. I'm going to clean it all up of course,
but is this normal, and
can I do anything anywhere else that can help
the matter if it isn't?
I'm thinking it's not that bad as the air pipe
is quite
clean.
Thanks!
file://Rob//
PMW '93
Stealth R/T TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:01:23 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mikael_=C5kesson?=
<vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Doing a compression check -- Question
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: Rob Corkum <twinturbo@home.com>
<SNIP>
My
car has about 82K miles on it and the interior of the plenum was rather black,
caked with oily soot about .5 mm thick, especially near the outgoing air end of
the plenum. I'm going to clean it all up of course, but is this normal?
Hi, I guess that it's normal, My plenum was black on the inside and I
know that several other people have reported the same thing. I cleaned mine with
gasoline and that worked out very good. I sealed the opening with plastic bags
and tape and then just filled it up with some gas and gave it a good shake. The
plennum then looked brand new on the inside.
When you have the plenum
off I suggest that you take the extra time it takes to polish the plenum (on the
outside!) with a drilling machine with a wire wheel on it. It will take you
10-20 minutes, you will not get a "show shine" but it will look better that it
did when the car was new. Well worth the extra time :)
Regards Mikael http://www.3000gt.nu
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:20:32 -0400
From: Kevin Schappell <kevin@pacarsearch.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Oil filter Comparison URL?
Could someone e-mail me off list the
URL of the site which compared oil
filters? I am at work and I believe
I have the original post at home.
Thanks,
Kevin Schappell
Auto
Answers
http://www.pacarsearch.com
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subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:37:48 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Oil filter Comparison URL?
http://minimopar.simplenet.com/oilfilterstudy.html
>
Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
>
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com
ICQ# 3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]
On Behalf Of Kevin Schappell
Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 7:21 AM
To:
'Stealth'
Subject: Team3S: Oil filter Comparison URL?
Could someone
e-mail me off list the URL of the site which compared oil
filters? I am
at work and I believe I have the original post at
home.
Thanks,
Kevin Schappell
Auto Answers
http://www.pacarsearch.com
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http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:05:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Dennis G. Bretton " <dbretton@cs.uml.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: VR4 vs RX7 Turbo?
> Beware of the rotary engine off the
line. I've had three RX-7's(all
> first gens), and the engine spools
up very quickly. My 91 TT(when it
> was running right) would have
been no match for even my old (non-turbo)
> '85 GSL-SE at the word "GO"(of
course after about 40 the RX would have
> been a blip in the rearview).
Hi Jeff (et. al.),
When you mean that your TT could
not beat these cars immediately off
the line, I assume that you refer to
conditions when the "other car"
launches with little/no spin,
correct?
Otherwise, I cannot see how the VR-4 could lose, off the line, to
some
suped-up car that is laying rubber all over the road. :)
The
times I have watched 3/S members launch at the strip, nothing has
beaten them
off the line, except one suped-up Camaro which had no spin
at
launch.
Regards,
Dennis
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:42:41 -0500
From: "Matt Jannusch" <mattj@fallon.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
G-Tech Pro
> G-Tech Pro Timeslip
>
13.08/115.0 14.231/98.339
> 13.43/118.7 14.426/100.213
>
12.68/120.2 13.930/99.825
>
> The alignment was done per
instructions and the unit was perfectly level
> at the starting
line.
Typically the problem is when you have a car that squats
excessively (like
ours do) where the front comes up and the back goes down
under acceleration.
This adds another .1G or so to the measurements the GTech
is taking, so you
are going to see artificially low times and high trap
speeds. Not sure how
bad your car squats, but I know mine does it quite
a lot, even under normal
driving.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:13:27 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: G-Tech Pro
>Typically the problem is when you have a car that
squats excessively (like
>ours do) where the front comes up and the back
goes down under acceleration.
My measurments are not bad while the speed
is definitely too high. The theory with the car squating down in the rear sounds
interesting. I felt that after
removing the spare wheel, some dead animals
and replacing the exhaust the times became better and even more consistant. I
then also felt that car
less squating than with the heavy stuff in the rear
but my 93'3000 TT never lifted its nose a lot.
Also it highly depends if
you go a little sideways with the car. When I do this with the LT1 Camaro, the
times are totally off while speed seems to be ok.
With the 3S the times I've
seen (13.24@1 bar, 13.15@1.15 bar) where high
due to a bad driver (i.e. me) and a somwhat slow shifting between 1 & 2
since day 1.
On the Camaro board our conclusion was that the G-Tech
pro is about 4 mph and 0.15-0.25 seconds too optimistic. The speed of course is
estimated
for the end of a 1/4 mile while on track it is trap
speed.
>bad your car squats, but I know mine does it quite a lot, even
under normal
>driving.
Hmm, maybe Mitsu made the Spiders rear
suspension somewhat softer to provide more quality and to prevent bending the
top too much.
Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
__________________________
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT
TwinTurbo
. going the wet way now !
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:28:20 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: EVCIII, drag racing results, & more
Great you finally got the
things running the right way.
>at a higher initial rpm (2,500 instead
of 1,000). This gave me better
>boost control when finished however
I still observe boost creep (higher
>boost than entered in EVC as engine
rpms increase) at lower boost levels
>(9psi).
This is always the
same I hear with the EVCs and cars with two turbos (ours, Supra, RX, 300).
Although it should be better with the 15Gs as they
spool up somewhat slower
than the 9B.
> One of the DSM guys told me I probably cannot avoid
this with
>my setup (15G turbos with low restriction exhaust) as the
wastegate
>cannot reroute enough exhaust gas to maintain the low
boost
No, the wastegates ar quick and especially holding boost at any
level is null problemo. The EBC control the wastegates by pulsing the pressure
going
to the actuators. With this it is possible to create 2-5 psi for the
actuators while the car is at 10psi and holding. Sometimes you can see a weavy
behaviour at the gauge at low boost but this was cured simply by changing
the BC settings. A slow weavy behaivour at ultra-high boost has been
caused
by the timing alternated due to knock/no-knock.
> At higher boost
levels (12psi and above) the EVCIII performs flawless, holding
>desired
boost until redline.
The 15Gs are doing this and this proves that the
wastegates are quick enough. Otherwise, the boost would alternate too
much.
Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
__________________________
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT
TwinTurbo
. going the wet way now !
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:45:10 -0500
From: "Phil Johnson" <dangerwit@mn.mediaone.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Paint Maintenance
I realize this isn't technical, but I figured a
bunch of folks who take as
good care inside must take take as good care of
the outside. So, I suppose
private email would be the best route for
answers.
This is my first full summer with my stealth (blue), and I'm
looking for
anyone who would be willing to share advice on 'healing' paint
chips,
especially [of course] in the hood. I have the paint, but I'm
not too good
at figuring out how to fix these chips (most are very
small).
Anyone wish to help?
=)
Thanks,
*Phil
Phillip Johnson
Ceridian Employer
Services
612-894-3224 (w)
888-415-4894 (pager)
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subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:48:48 -0400
From: Kevin Schappell <kevin@pacarsearch.com>
Subject:
Team3S: FIPK installed, temperature results.
Well first I installed the
filter-charger in the stock air box and noticed
a little more noise and a
little better performance. I then installed the
FIPK after battling
with the bolts between the stock air box and the MAF.
(darn plastic
ribs that were supposed to capture the studs just flexed and
allowed the
studs to turn.) I did not notice any increase in power from
the
air-charger but alot more noise. (which is ok with me) I do hear the
BOV now, kinda like blowing over a bottle, or a honking goose. I
placed
the temp. probe I had in the airbox right outside of the filter and
did not
notice any increase in temp. Intake temp is still running
10-15 degree F
above outside temp. I am now waiting for my harness
(back ordered ! ) for
the turbo timer so I can install the boost controller.
( I need an accurate
boost guage to tune the controller ) I am
thinking about making up a new
cover and placing the timer and controller
where the extra 12V power
connection is.
Later,
Kevin
Schappell
Auto Answers
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------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 22 Jun 1999 02:35:02 -0400
From: Rob Corkum <twinturbo@home.com>
Subject: Team3S:
re: Doing a compression check -- Question
Update:
> Is there
any reason why I can't get the engine to crank over while
> this
way?
Well, I had almost answered my own question and got the heads-up
from
another list member. It seems that the engine block is grounded by
the
single braided grounding lead off the firewall in front of the
driver's
side to the diver's rear corner of the plenum. I had figured
that there
must be another lead somewhere as the manual didn't mention to
reconnect
it to some other bolt location. No problems after that to do
the
compression test -- and it turned out ok, with one cylinder a bit
lower
than the rest. I peered down the lower manifold into the area
where you
can see both valves for that cylinder and one looked caked up
with
something. All the others were quite clean. I may snap a few
pics and
put them up as a reference when I do clean it.
> One last
thing for those that have had their plenum off, etc. ...
> ...
I'm going to clean it all up of course,
I got the suggestion from another
list member to take the opportunity to
polish up the plenum while it's off
completely using a wire wheel.
Does anyone have any bad experiences in
doing this? It doesn't look
like it'll take too long -- kind of tedious
to get all the nooks and
crannies, but it should keep the bumpy casted
surface, but just make it
shinier I guess. I'll try cleaning out the
interior gunk with some
gasoline.
ttyal!
file://Rob//
PMW '93 Stealth R/T TT
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------------------------------
End
of Team3S Digest V1 #212
****************************
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