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From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #211
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
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Team3S
Digest Sunday, June 20
1999 Volume 01 : Number
211
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 19 Jun 1999 17:20:54 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Fuel injectors ???
> This is my first post so bear with me if this is
a dumb ass question. I have
> a 92 R/T NON TURBO..could I change to
bigger injectors and fuel pump for more
> power??
>
>
Dave.
=========================================================================
The
thing you need to do first is to get it to breath better and that's where less
restrictive air
filters,
exhausts and throttle bodies come in. Since it's
a fuel injected computer controlled engine it will
try to provide the fuel
necessary to support the air flow you provided by your air flow mods.
At some
point the injectors will be maxed out and will need to be upgraded but I have no
idea where
that point is in a N/A car. The thing that determines when the
injectors max out is IDC, or injector
duty cycle, once it gets up to 80% or
90% for prolonged periods of time the injectors can be
damaged.
Your
computer is calibrated to use with stock injectors, larger injectors will just
cause a rich
mixture
since the fuel map you are working from is for
smaller injectors. At this point you need an
aftermarket
computer or a
injector control device to fool the computer or a system that replaces the
intake
system.
BTY no flaming is allowed so you can ask any technical
question you want. Their are guys out there
who make my knowledge level seem
puny, but I'm not afraid to pick their brains.
The DSM group would
probably be a good source for mods to a N/A as there are more of them in
that
group. Going through the archives should also give you a lot lf information for
a few nights
reading.
Jim Berry
>>> 93 stealth TT
---- "arrest me
red"
K&N FPIK -- Magnicore/.034" --- Blitz
SSBC
[soon] --- GAB struts --- Stillen SS
lines
GC/Eibach 550# F/330#
R
Gtech --- 0-60 = 4.75 -- 1/4 = 13.3 @ 110
mph
===========================================================================
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 20 Jun 1999 12:47:29 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Fuel injectors ???
>> a 92 R/T NON TURBO..could I change to
bigger injectors and fuel pump for
more
>> power??
As Jim
already stated, for more power also more fuel and therefore also more
air is
needed ! But the air path is not that restrictive on our 3
litre
engine.
If you want to gain from the more air/fuel good headers
must be done, also
the valve lift and cam timing as well as ignition has to
be changed. Even
more, the car runs better if tuned to the leaner side und a
hot timing and
any more fuel delivery would result in less
power.
Unfortunately, there is no cheap way to increase power on an N/A
car. The
cheapest is a 100hp nitrous
shot.
Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 20 Jun 1999 19:23:41 -0500
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Water Injection
It would be great if you could dyno the car with water
injection off, then on, etc so we
can quantify the ACTUAL hp / curve
difference that WI makes. ERL was unable to cite any
figures on ANY car
when I called them 'back in the day'...
Jack Tertadian
"R.G."
wrote:
> Water injection system is appropriate where too much
heat
> generated and only low octane gas available. The more pressure
in
> chamber the higher the temp and higher danger
> for
detonation. turbos efficiency becomes
> degraded over 12 psi and
discharge become much hotter
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 20 Jun 1999 08:21:30 -0400
From: Joshua <joshua@princelaw.com>
Subject:
Question RE: Team3S: Water Injection
If you put water injection in or on
your car however you wanna say it, must
you always keep it on? I was
under the assumption that you could use it or
not use it if you had it
installed and that you didn't always have to use
it.
-----Original Message-----
From: xwing [mailto:xwing@execpc.com]
Sent: Sunday,
June 20, 1999 8:24 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Water Injection
It would be great if you could dyno the car
with water
injection off, then on, etc so we
can quantify the ACTUAL hp /
curve difference that WI makes.
ERL was unable to cite any
figures on ANY
car when I called them 'back in the day'...
Jack Tertadian
"R.G."
wrote:
> Water injection system is appropriate where too much
heat
> generated and only low octane gas available. The more
pressure
in
> chamber the higher the temp and higher danger
> for
detonation. turbos efficiency becomes
> degraded over 12 psi and
discharge become much hotter
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 20 Jun 1999 08:40:16 -0500
From: "Basol, John" <jbasol@Carlson.com>
Subject: RE:
Question RE: Team3S: Water Injection
-----Original Message-----
From:
Joshua [SMTP:joshua@princelaw.com]
Sent:
Sunday, June 20, 1999 7:22 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Question RE: Team3S: Water Injection
If you put water injection in or on
your car however you wanna say
it, must
you always keep it on? I was
under the assumption that you could
use it or
not use it if you had it
installed and that you didn't always have
to use
it.
All of
the WI systems I have seen are pressure sensitive, meaning
they turn on at a
certain pressure point. To completely turn off my system,
I would have
to either pull the fuse, or disconnect power by some other
method. It
would not be very hard to wire an on/off switch into any of the
systems
though.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 20 Jun 1999 16:57:50 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Water Injection
>It would be great if you could dyno the car
with water injection off, then
on, etc so we
>can quantify the ACTUAL
hp / curve difference that WI makes. ERL was
unable to cite
any
>figures on ANY car when I called them 'back in the
day'...
Yes, this is on my schedule ! I will dyno the car as it is
and without more
steady boost (1.00 bars). Then the water injection will be
switched on under
the very same ambient. Finally the new pressure will be set
by looking the
dyno where the timing is getting retarded, IDC and A/F ratio.
Of course, the
real power will be made by increasing the boost :))
I
hope to get the System by the end of next week and will may start without
the
injectors (just fuel pump).
Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 20 Jun 1999 10:51:06 -0700
From: Bruce Body <bbody@pacbell.net>
Subject: Team3S:
Timing Meter?
It seems that in our never ending quest for more power, we
have to deal
with detonation more than any other issue. There are several
ways to
monitor for this behavior: EGT, A/F and IDC come to mind. These are
all
aids that are used to determine IF detonation is occurring. But
this
does not tell you for sure that it is.
It is also my
understanding that the ECU monitors the knock sensor and
if knock is
detected, impedes or retards the timing until the condition
has passed. So my
question to the list is: why is there no mention of a
timing gauge or
meter?
Since the crankshaft position sensor and the no. 1 cylinder
ignition are
both pulse signals, it should be fairly simple for someone with
an
electronics background to extrapolate those signals to form a base
at
the idle state ignition timing. Then as the timing advances,
display
this change on an analog volt meter of sufficient sweep. Then one
could
watch the timing curve in real time from the driver's seat and back
off
the throttle or further tune if the timing starts to retard due
to
knock. I know that it takes a certain amount of time for the ECU
to
react to the knock sensor, but this action is real whereas the EGT,
A/F
are only very educated guesses that detonation is actually
occurring.
One could take this a step further and build a meter that would
compare
timing to rpms. If the timing retards while the rpms are
still
increasing, a warning could be sent such as an audible signal
or
flashing light.
Am I missing something or has this been covered
before? I don't see
anything in the archives and have never heard such
discussions.
Bruce
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 20 Jun 1999 15:11:11 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Autocrossing
Took the 94 VR4 to a Corvette Club autocross today,
and cleaned house.
I had 3rd fastest time, beaten only by a "special"
1500 lb V8
racer/roadster (sorta like a Lotus Super 7, but with a Chevy V8)
who had
FTD by 10 seconds, and a 1966 454 autocrossing Corvette on sticky
tires,
driven by the race organizer, who set up the course. Strangely enough,
all
the straights seemed to fit his gearing just fine, while I was hitting
the
rev limiter 100 ft prior to braking at most turns. Behind me was a
5.0
Mustang on sticky tires, then a gaggle of C5 Vettes.
Pissed them
off royally that a rice burner and a 5.0 could whomp their
new
Vettes!
BTW, Corvette Club autocrosses are usually much better
than SCCA events,
because Corvette courses are wide open. SCCA events are
designed for
motorized go karts with super tight turns and stupid slaloms
(yuk -- what
does a slalom have to do with anything?).
With our cars,
the trick is to get back on the power early, at or before
the apex. Corvettes
will smoke the rear tires and get into huge powerslides
if they try that, but
our cars just put the power down, smoke all four
sometimes, and accelerate
out of the turn without sliding. We may lose a
little in acceleration to the
raw power of a C5, but we get it back coming
out of the turns earlier.
(Thanks to whoever it was that gave me that tip
last year: This was the first
chance I've had to try it, and it works great!.)
Give autocrossing a go
sometime. I pump my stock Michelins to 44/38 hot and
they stick pretty
good.
Rich/old poop/94 VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 21 Jun 1999 00:20:31 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Water Injection
>Does anyone know how long the water last in
the water injection system? Is
it
>something like 1gallon/hour?Just
wondering if driving to work would exhaust
>the supply.
Remember,
the system activates the water flow at a specific boost (e.g. 12
psi) and
only flows the fluid if boost is higher than that ! Try to count
the time you
run this amount of boost and you'll see that this is not that
often,
espcially as you should not push the car hard or above 3000 rpm until
the oil
temp is ok (like driving to work in the morning)
Also it depends on teh
system as with the System 1 from ERL the water flows
at a specific amount
sepcified while the System 2 regulates the water flow
with a boost sensor.
Therefore at 12psi there will be just a little amount
of water injected and
in the upper range the whole reservoir will be given
:)
A Porsche
Turbo owner drives around for 2 weeks with one tank while there is
a Cyclone
that fills up the tank almost every day (he has still some knock
and just
dumps in the juice)
The max flow with the ERL is about 200ml /
Minute.
Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 20 Jun 1999 21:36:24 -0000
From: "Shawn and Sarah Cullen" <spcullen@prodigy.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Possible auto tranny problem
Hey -- posted this on the message
board also, but thought that I'd pick the
brains of the mechanics in
here...
I have a 92SL with an automatic transmission, and every once in a
while when
I shift into reverse, it will pause a couple of seconds and then
shift
pretty hard. Enough to rock the car a bit.
This concerns
me greatly. All other shifts to all other gears are great --
nice and
smooth no matter how hard or gently I'm driving.
Anyone know what could
possibly be the problem? Any input would be greatly
appreciated.
Thank you in advance.
Shawn
92SL
3Si#300
- -----Original
Message-----
From: R.G. <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: MrX2111@aol.com <MrX2111@aol.com>; Team3S List
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date:
Sunday, June 20, 1999 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water
Injection
>>Does anyone know how long the water last in the
water injection system? Is
>it
>>something like 1gallon/hour?Just
wondering if driving to work would
exhaust
>>the
supply.
>
>Remember, the system activates the water flow at a
specific boost (e.g. 12
>psi) and only flows the fluid if boost is higher
than that ! Try to count
>the time you run this amount of boost and you'll
see that this is not that
>often, espcially as you should not push the car
hard or above 3000 rpm
until
>the oil temp is ok (like driving to work
in the morning)
>
>Also it depends on teh system as with the System
1 from ERL the water flows
>at a specific amount sepcified while the
System 2 regulates the water flow
>with a boost sensor. Therefore at 12psi
there will be just a little amount
>of water injected and in the upper
range the whole reservoir will be given
>:)
>
>A Porsche Turbo
owner drives around for 2 weeks with one tank while there
is
>a Cyclone
that fills up the tank almost every day (he has still some knock
>and just
dumps in the juice)
>
>
>The max flow with the ERL is about
200ml / Minute.
>
>Regards,
>Roger
>93'3000GT
TT
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
End
of Team3S Digest V1 #211
****************************
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info and FAQ, see our web page at http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm