--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #202
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest         Thursday, June 10 1999         Volume 01 : Number 202




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 21:49:15 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: I.D.

does Brian/GT Alley = Brian/GT Pro

         Jim Berry

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 00:21:02 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: I.D.

yes
> Brad
      Check out my home page:   http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
> E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ#  3612682



- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com] On Behalf Of Jim Berry
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 11:49 PM
To: team 3si
Subject: Team3S: I.D.

does Brian/GT Alley = Brian/GT Pro

         Jim Berry

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 11:13:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Dennis G. Bretton " <dbretton@cs.uml.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Brake service

Hi Fellas,

  I have done a little looking around for a 4-piston caliper wind-back
tool. 
I have found a potential candidate for this, but I need to find out some
more information about the pistons in the VR-4 calipers.
The tool I am looking at "can" push back a 4-piston caliper, but the
distributer (+ manufacturer) is not certain.

I need to find out what the outside diameter of the VR-4 caliper
pistons is (for 91-93, 94++). 
If you guys can find this for me, (any of the diameters) I can find out if
the tool will work.

Regards,
   Dennis


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 09:28:13 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S: Admin: New Team3S Config Allows Reply-to Sender...

To all,

I'll be trying to change things so that when a message comes in from
the list, clicking "Reply to Author" will actually go to the author of
the message instead of to the entire list.  This software is a bit
strange, so it may take me a few tries to get it right...  We'll see
what happens, and I'll let you all know.

Bob Forrest
Admin, Team3S



For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 00:12:12 +0100
From: <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Split Second MAF kit / VPC (long)

Yes, the kit for the 3S is now available !

I'm sorry to be more sceptic than others but let me summarize the
following
points :

- - The MAF sensor is a good thing. As it is not a Karman Vortex style,
electronics are needed to adapt the signal (ARC-2GP). Otherwise the ECU
wouldn't understand anything. The kit provides this nicely.

- - SplitSecond says the following : "The alteration or addition of
turbochargers, superchargers, fuel injectors, fuel regulators, throttle
bodies, intake plenums, Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensors or Manifold Absolute
Pressure (MAP) sensors changes the air/fuel ratio." Can someone please
explain me why adding MAP sensor changes the A/F Ratio ? If I hear
something like that I must think that somebody does not understand how
the things work.

- - The ARM1 is a necessary tool but it is nothing different than any
other A/F meter !! It contains one small integrated circuit 10 LEDs up
to three resistors and one or two capacitors. Worth about $10.. but it
works. But what about an IDC ?? Besides an A/F meter I think EGT and IDC
are the most important values I need to know. Ok, it's not necessary to
observe the IDC all the time but I'd like to know what the current
conditions are !!

- - It is not really clear what the GP style of the ARC is. But a good
system MUST check the boost pressure in the manifold and adjust the
signal automatically that goes to the ECU. We know that the most of our
cars do not have a MAP sensor and therefore the ECU calculates the boost
shown in the stock meter. A sophisticated aftermarket fuel control or
MAF conversion system must take care of this to provide the full
advantage but the ARC cannot find out on what load the car is just by
measuring the air flow. This is the advantage of the VPC although it
converts your car into speed density. Also the adjustments are pretty
close the same way as the ARC.

- - SplitSecond says : "This package will allow you to raise the boost,
install larger injectors, even change to larger turbos.". Ok, I think we
can always change to larger turbos without the need for the ARC ;-)
Anyways, the first point is not true if the fuel system has not been
modified yet. Or would someone please ask SplitSec how they control the
engine detonation or how do they know if the injectors are at their
limit.

- - I'm missing any idle speed control for larger injectors ! It does
sense the TPS and therefore knows when the throttle is closed but what
is the beahaivour during shifting ?

My conclusion is that the larger MAF is a good thing. It will keep the
car mostly as it is and by adapting the signal to the ECU it works for a
wide range of cars, but the price is very high for a "frequency altering
device". Even more, the thing isn't intelligent and doesn't help you in
any situation nor does it know what to do in any boost situation.

The VPC is also somewhat old fashioned and it's bad to have a new EPROM
burnt for other injectors. Well, I think I'd do this only once :). Also
it converts air-mass systems to speed-density systems that is not the
most wished thing. And together with a GCC price is way too high but you
have a HKS product (baaah)

Comparing the ARC to an Apexi S-AFC doesn't make sense at all as the
later is a fine tuning tool and good for somewhat larger injectors like
550cc. BTW, the three knobs saying Low,Mid and High do almost the same
but with another philosophy. But the whole technology is different.

In my point of view, the ARC as well as the VPC are only half the way to
the right solution. The TRE MASC was pretty close but maybe too
complicated and finally too expensive for the market to make real money
out of it. What we need is :

- - large MAF (can we get the MAF only from them ?)
- - electronics that can :
- - convert the MAF signal to Karman Vortex style
- - rpm related idle control
- - O2 sensor readings
- - MAP sensor readings (additional sensor)
- - IDC readings in % (for the guys who do not have a S-AVCR)
- - automatically adjusting (in a small range) regarding O2 sensors
- - automatically adjusting reagrding boost readings (controllable)
- - parametric change of input/output (10 positions)
- - alarm functions for high IDC or low O2 readings (sound, light,    
activity)
- - serial port to record the readouts on a PC (mini data logging)
- - 2 row backlighted LCD display for the readouts
- - Price including filter : $950 (I'd buy it then)

I do not comment the message from Brian (GT-PRO) as he seems to sell the
stuff and for me it's an advertisement for SplitSecond.

Last thing : We'll get the real gain when you can increase boost. But
you are limited to the fuel system and how much fuel you need to prevent
knock (wasting energy !!). So how do you tune in the stuff without a
knock monitor and without the ability to see the timing is getting
retarded ?

Sorry for my long post, but I went over all these stuff when the TRE
MASC got public and I wanted to share some information. Discussion is
open ;-)

Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT TT .. going the wet way


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 18:29:34 -0700
From: Joe Gonsowski <twinturbo@mediaone.net>
Subject: Team3S: Possible installation mistakes?, VPC & BOV - revisited

Well, it took awhile (close to a month) but I took Roger Gerl's advice and figured out
how to put a web page together.  It's poor quality, but hey, its for learning and not so
much entertainment (yet!).  Thanks Roger for the push, now I have a digital camera and
know how to publish a home page.  I left some of the pertinent discussion from a post
from a few weeks ago.  My home page address is at the end of the post.

R.G. wrote:

> > ?HKS SHC (Super blow off valve High boost Controller)?
>
> No, I don't know anything called like this. The EVC is already your boost
> controller and I think you mean that this is an SBOV (Sequential Blow Off Valve)
>
> > On the pressure sensor mounting, what will happen if the pressure sensor
> > is mounted directly to the firewall as opposed to upside down?
>
> No problem !

I've got a pic of the pressure sensor mounting on the firewall on the web page.  I hope
this mounting position is acceptable.

>
> > BOV - I'm really confused here.  I've got an HKS BOV (not sure which
> > one) with two supporting sensors?/controllers? (sorry for the
> > description, but I don't know what they are).
>
> Well, are you sure you speaking of the BOV here ? I ask because a BOV has no
> sensor nor controller but a larger in- and output and a vacuum hose connection
> for the reference.
>
> > There are two vacuum ports, one is open to atmosphere (located on
> > underside of BOV)
>
> Umpf, never seen a BOV with two ports but it sounds to me like this is one of
> the Racing BOVs. Is the stock bypass valve still attached ?
>
> > Silver tank: Off the back side is a vacuum line with an inline filter
> > (just like the in line filter on the VPC pressure sensor) that leads to
> > a tee located ~ 1 inch upstream the FPR.
>
> INMO, this is a vacuum/boost reservoir that allows to increase fuel pressure as
> well as the FPR can act quicker due to the pressure already there.
>
> > The other gadget is a similar size dark green box with NOK stamped into it
> > and 3208 written below in blue ink.  There are a total of three vacuum ports
> > on this part, two at one end (both capped off) and one on the other which
> > leads to a tee on the BOV line.
>
> Isn't this a boost sensor device ? These things also provide to measure some
> pressure difference using two ports and one for reference. If two are capped
> off, the reference and difference is measured against ambient. Just an idea and
> I'm not really use. You definitely have to find out where the canisters are
> attached to electrically.
>
> > I'll feel better when I understand the workings of everything under the
> > hood, thanks for any help.
>
> Me too :) Let us know if you found out more. Try to create a drawing like the
> one in the VPC paper (but with electrical connections too). This then will help
> you a lot when searching for problems or for fine tuning.
>
> Regards,
> Roger, Switzerland
> 93'3000GT TT

Please review my BOV and accompanying gadgets on my home page and help me understand
what I have here:

http://people.mw.mediaone.net/twinturbo/stealth.html

Thanks,
Joe Gonsowski

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 18:57:54 EDT
From: TurboDrvn@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Great Custom Performance Shop for our needs!

Hi all,

I know I'm giving away all my secrets about my contacts for my VR4
(as you all have seen with my previous posts re: custom shops, extended
warranty companies, etc.); but I thought this would benefit us all.  I just
wanted to inform us all of a shop in Arizona that has truly provided me with
the best prices in modification parts and needs for our fabulous cars!  I
have dealt with them for about a year now and have found them to be
reputable, efficient, honest and have the best prices!

Apex R Motorsport - ask for Indra (email: Apex_phx@hotmail.com); he used to
own a modified 3000GT VR4 at one time and knows our cars (3000GT & Stealths)
very well.

Apex R Motorsport - ask for Indra
2615 W. Glendale
Phoenix, AZ 85051
phone #: (602)246-7505
email:  Apex_PHX@hotmail.com

Inform Indra that Ahmed sent ya so you can get the best prices on parts! 

I hope I was of some help.

Take care,

Ahmed  "AL-Crazy" - '92 VR4
GReddy Profec B boost controller, GReddy turbo timer, Apex'i sequential
b.o.v., SPI motorsport boost gauge & pillar pod, K&N filtercharger, Alamo
Downpipe, Hi-flow cat, Borla exhaust, KVR Cross drilled rotors with carbon
fiber pads, Nitto Power Extreme NT-555 (255/40/17's) tires, Eibach springs &
Enkei RP-O1 17x9 (42mm offset) custom racing wheels (Springs and wheels not
installed yet).  And Yes, my Transmission is FIXED!!!!!
&
1987 Buick Grand National (way too many mods to list!)


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 01:06:24 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Possible installation mistakes?, VPC & BOV - revisited

I reply this to the list as well as I might be wrong with my thoughts :

> It's poor quality, but hey, its for learning and not so much entertainment

But it helps a lot to understand the stuff !!! Well done :)

BOV :

This is one of the "old" HKS racing BOV. Usually they are not recommended on our
cars as they act only good on high boost (they are built for). The open port is
ok as it is something like a reference to the ambient.

The NOK thing is a solenoid valve and works together with the small chrome
thing. For me this looks like the solenoid for the wastegate control but the
connections do not make a lot sense to me :( Also the HKS thing looks like an
old fashioned MAP sensor to read the boost but if it is T-ed into the FPR line
to the FPR solenoid this doesn't make too much sense either. It will work but is
not the best solution. But what does the solenoid valve do ??? But I don't think
that they are related to the BOV.

My next advice : check the boost controller parts. Follow the hose attached to
the rear wastegate actuator and check where it leads to. Put this into another
drawing then. Also show us the boost sensor for the VPC and the tappings into
the plenum from the VPC sensors.

Later,
Roger

- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 19:14:42 EDT
From: RTTURB0@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: need to find a good shop

Does anyone know of a good shop in Tulsa, or around Tulsa, OKlahoma to take a
Stealth R/T TT.............dealership is just playing the guessing game on
whats wrong with my car and well............thier guessing game is gonna cost
me out the but..........so any help with this and i will be very greatfull.

Jake
Glenpool, OK
91 R/T TT
http://members.aol.com/rtturb0/enter.html    (Just Redone)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 16:41:03 -0700
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Team3S: REPLY BUTTON-Admin refresher

Hi Team;

Just to insure that everyone is now aware of the recently
upgraded reply feature...please note:

You now have two options:

1) Reply to the sender of the posting (reply to sender/author)
2) Reply to the list and consequently also the sender (reply to
all/list)

If you reply to the sender it will not involve anyone else on the
list, as it will be private. If you reply to the list (reply to
all) we will be part of the discussion. Hopefully this feature
will not find traffic dropping off  or solutions going private.
It was installed by Forrest to make life more enjoyable for you
all. Salutations Bob.

Best

Darc...for the admins



For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 17:19:49 -0700
From: "Terry Swift" <tlswift@hotbot.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Great Custom Performance Shop for our needs!

Actually they have two shops - 1 in Glendale(West) and the other in Tempe(East).  Tempe shop run by Kwan, who has/had a built Eclipse that he raced.  East # (602) 967-6515 or Toll Free 1-877-282-0680.  They cover almost anything you want - be it body kits, brake upgrades, suspension stuff, exhaust.  Kwan says "Find your best price and then give me a call, I'll do my best to beat it."
- --

On Wed, 9 Jun 1999 18:57:54    TurboDrvn wrote:
>Hi all,
>
> I know I'm giving away all my secrets about my contacts for my VR4
>(as you all have seen with my previous posts re: custom shops, extended
>warranty companies, etc.); but I thought this would benefit us all.  I just
>wanted to inform us all of a shop in Arizona that has truly provided me with
>the best prices in modification parts and needs for our fabulous cars!  I
>have dealt with them for about a year now and have found them to be
>reputable, efficient, honest and have the best prices!
>
>Apex R Motorsport - ask for Indra (email: Apex_phx@hotmail.com); he used to
>own a modified 3000GT VR4 at one time and knows our cars (3000GT & Stealths)
>very well.
>
>Apex R Motorsport - ask for Indra
>2615 W. Glendale
>Phoenix, AZ 85051
>phone #: (602)246-7505
>email:  Apex_PHX@hotmail.com
>
>Inform Indra that Ahmed sent ya so you can get the best prices on parts! 
>
>I hope I was of some help.
>
>Take care,
>
>Ahmed  "AL-Crazy" - '92 VR4
>GReddy Profec B boost controller, GReddy turbo timer, Apex'i sequential
>b.o.v., SPI motorsport boost gauge & pillar pod, K&N filtercharger, Alamo
>Downpipe, Hi-flow cat, Borla exhaust, KVR Cross drilled rotors with carbon
>fiber pads, Nitto Power Extreme NT-555 (255/40/17's) tires, Eibach springs &
>Enkei RP-O1 17x9 (42mm offset) custom racing wheels (Springs and wheels not
>installed yet).  And Yes, my Transmission is FIXED!!!!!
>&
>1987 Buick Grand National (way too many mods to list!)
>
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>


HotBot - Search smarter.
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For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 22:40:54 EDT
From: TurboDrvn@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Great Custom Performance Shop for our needs!

In a message dated 6/9/99 7:20:06 PM Central Daylight Time,
tlswift@hotbot.com writes:

<< Actually they have two shops - 1 in Glendale(West) and the other in
Tempe(East).  Tempe shop run by Kwan, who has/had a built Eclipse that he
raced.  East # (602) 967-6515 or Toll Free 1-877-282-0680.  They cover almost
anything you want - be it body kits, brake upgrades, suspension stuff,
exhaust.  Kwan says "Find your best price and then give me a call, I'll do my
best to beat it."
 --
  >>
Hi Terry,
Yes, there is Big Kwan and Indra; they both know me well; great guys!
 I've heard a whole lot of his AWD Eclipse as well.  They will take care of
us for almost all of our needs!

Take care,
Ahmed - '92 VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:10:49 -0500
From: "Matt Jannusch" <mattj@fallon.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Split Second MAF kit / VPC (long)

> - large MAF (can we get the MAF only from them ?)
> - electronics that can :
> - convert the MAF signal to Karman Vortex style
> - rpm related idle control
> - O2 sensor readings
> - MAP sensor readings (additional sensor)
> - IDC readings in % (for the guys who do not have a S-AVCR)
> - automatically adjusting (in a small range) regarding O2 sensors
> - automatically adjusting reagrding boost readings (controllable)
> - parametric change of input/output (10 positions)
> - alarm functions for high IDC or low O2 readings (sound, light,
> activity)
> - serial port to record the readouts on a PC (mini data logging)
> - 2 row backlighted LCD display for the readouts
> - Price including filter : $950 (I'd buy it then)

This sounds almost exactly what the EFI Systems PMS provides.  It has a
larger MAF (hotwire-style), converts MAF to Karman Vortex (Eclipse PMS),
idle fuel and timing control, O2 sensor readout (and datalog), MAP readout
(and datalog), Injector Duty Cycle percentage (and pulsewidth) readout (and
datalog), full adjustment of fuel and timing based upon throttle position
and manifold pressure (and use of nitrous, if so hooked-up), full
datalogging, 2-row backlit LCD display and control pad.

What is missing is the alarm functions.  Right now it is available for the
DSM cars, and I'd think the most difficult thing involved in making it work
on a 3/S car would be 2 more injector and coil drivers and the appropriate
harness to connect it to the car.  Maybe we could convince them to make a
3/S version of the PMS and get almost all of the items on Roger's wishlist?
The price would probably be higher than the target of $950, more like
$1500-$2000, but you get the timing adjustments as well.  It can also work
as a bleeder-style boost controller too.

http://www.efisystems.com

- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

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------------------------------

End of Team3S Digest V1 #202
****************************

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