--
From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #202
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
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Team3S Digest
Thursday, June 10 1999 Volume 01
: Number
202
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 8 Jun 1999 21:49:15 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Team3S:
I.D.
does Brian/GT Alley = Brian/GT
Pro
Jim Berry
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 9 Jun 1999 00:21:02 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: I.D.
yes
> Brad
Check
out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
>
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com
ICQ# 3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]
On Behalf Of Jim Berry
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 11:49 PM
To: team
3si
Subject: Team3S: I.D.
does Brian/GT Alley = Brian/GT
Pro
Jim Berry
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 9 Jun 1999 11:13:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Dennis G. Bretton " <dbretton@cs.uml.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Brake service
Hi Fellas,
I have done a little
looking around for a 4-piston caliper wind-back
tool.
I have found
a potential candidate for this, but I need to find out some
more information
about the pistons in the VR-4 calipers.
The tool I am looking at "can" push
back a 4-piston caliper, but the
distributer (+ manufacturer) is not
certain.
I need to find out what the outside diameter of the VR-4
caliper
pistons is (for 91-93, 94++).
If you guys can find this for
me, (any of the diameters) I can find out if
the tool will
work.
Regards,
Dennis
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 9 Jun 1999 09:28:13 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Admin: New Team3S Config Allows Reply-to Sender...
To all,
I'll be
trying to change things so that when a message comes in from
the list,
clicking "Reply to Author" will actually go to the author of
the message
instead of to the entire list. This software is a bit
strange, so it
may take me a few tries to get it right... We'll see
what happens, and
I'll let you all know.
Bob Forrest
Admin, Team3S
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Jun 1999 00:12:12 +0100
From: <robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Split Second MAF kit / VPC (long)
Yes, the kit for the 3S is now
available !
I'm sorry to be more sceptic than others but let me summarize
the
following
points :
- - The MAF sensor is a good thing. As it
is not a Karman Vortex style,
electronics are needed to adapt the signal
(ARC-2GP). Otherwise the ECU
wouldn't understand anything. The kit provides
this nicely.
- - SplitSecond says the following : "The alteration or
addition of
turbochargers, superchargers, fuel injectors, fuel regulators,
throttle
bodies, intake plenums, Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensors or Manifold
Absolute
Pressure (MAP) sensors changes the air/fuel ratio." Can someone
please
explain me why adding MAP sensor changes the A/F Ratio ? If I hear
something like that I must think that somebody does not understand how
the things work.
- - The ARM1 is a necessary tool but it is nothing
different than any
other A/F meter !! It contains one small integrated
circuit 10 LEDs up
to three resistors and one or two capacitors. Worth about
$10.. but it
works. But what about an IDC ?? Besides an A/F meter I think
EGT and IDC
are the most important values I need to know. Ok, it's not
necessary to
observe the IDC all the time but I'd like to know what the
current
conditions are !!
- - It is not really clear what the GP
style of the ARC is. But a good
system MUST check the boost pressure in the
manifold and adjust the
signal automatically that goes to the ECU. We know
that the most of our
cars do not have a MAP sensor and therefore the ECU
calculates the boost
shown in the stock meter. A sophisticated aftermarket
fuel control or
MAF conversion system must take care of this to provide the
full
advantage but the ARC cannot find out on what load the car is just by
measuring the air flow. This is the advantage of the VPC although it
converts your car into speed density. Also the adjustments are pretty
close the same way as the ARC.
- - SplitSecond says : "This package
will allow you to raise the boost,
install larger injectors, even change to
larger turbos.". Ok, I think we
can always change to larger turbos without
the need for the ARC ;-)
Anyways, the first point is not true if the fuel
system has not been
modified yet. Or would someone please ask SplitSec how
they control the
engine detonation or how do they know if the injectors are
at their
limit.
- - I'm missing any idle speed control for larger
injectors ! It does
sense the TPS and therefore knows when the throttle is
closed but what
is the beahaivour during shifting ?
My conclusion is
that the larger MAF is a good thing. It will keep the
car mostly as it is
and by adapting the signal to the ECU it works for a
wide range of cars, but
the price is very high for a "frequency altering
device". Even more, the
thing isn't intelligent and doesn't help you in
any situation nor does it
know what to do in any boost situation.
The VPC is also somewhat old
fashioned and it's bad to have a new EPROM
burnt for other injectors. Well,
I think I'd do this only once :). Also
it converts air-mass systems to
speed-density systems that is not the
most wished thing. And together with a
GCC price is way too high but you
have a HKS product
(baaah)
Comparing the ARC to an Apexi S-AFC doesn't make sense at all as
the
later is a fine tuning tool and good for somewhat larger injectors like
550cc. BTW, the three knobs saying Low,Mid and High do almost the same
but with another philosophy. But the whole technology is
different.
In my point of view, the ARC as well as the VPC are only half
the way to
the right solution. The TRE MASC was pretty close but maybe too
complicated and finally too expensive for the market to make real money
out of it. What we need is :
- - large MAF (can we get the MAF only
from them ?)
- - electronics that can :
- - convert the MAF signal to
Karman Vortex style
- - rpm related idle control
- - O2 sensor
readings
- - MAP sensor readings (additional sensor)
- - IDC readings in %
(for the guys who do not have a S-AVCR)
- - automatically adjusting (in a
small range) regarding O2 sensors
- - automatically adjusting reagrding boost
readings (controllable)
- - parametric change of input/output (10
positions)
- - alarm functions for high IDC or low O2 readings (sound,
light,
activity)
- - serial port to record the
readouts on a PC (mini data logging)
- - 2 row backlighted LCD display for
the readouts
- - Price including filter : $950 (I'd buy it then)
I do
not comment the message from Brian (GT-PRO) as he seems to sell the
stuff
and for me it's an advertisement for SplitSecond.
Last thing : We'll get
the real gain when you can increase boost. But
you are limited to the fuel
system and how much fuel you need to prevent
knock (wasting energy !!). So
how do you tune in the stuff without a
knock monitor and without the ability
to see the timing is getting
retarded ?
Sorry for my long post, but I
went over all these stuff when the TRE
MASC got public and I wanted to share
some information. Discussion is
open
;-)
Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT TT .. going the wet way
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 09 Jun 1999 18:29:34 -0700
From: Joe Gonsowski <twinturbo@mediaone.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Possible installation mistakes?, VPC & BOV - revisited
Well,
it took awhile (close to a month) but I took Roger Gerl's advice and figured
out
how to put a web page together. It's poor quality, but hey, its for
learning and not so
much entertainment (yet!). Thanks Roger for the
push, now I have a digital camera and
know how to publish a home page.
I left some of the pertinent discussion from a post
from a few weeks
ago. My home page address is at the end of the post.
R.G.
wrote:
> > ?HKS SHC (Super blow off valve High boost
Controller)?
>
> No, I don't know anything called like this. The EVC
is already your boost
> controller and I think you mean that this is an
SBOV (Sequential Blow Off Valve)
>
> > On the pressure sensor
mounting, what will happen if the pressure sensor
> > is mounted
directly to the firewall as opposed to upside down?
>
> No problem
!
I've got a pic of the pressure sensor mounting on the firewall on the
web page. I hope
this mounting position is
acceptable.
>
> > BOV - I'm really confused here. I've
got an HKS BOV (not sure which
> > one) with two supporting
sensors?/controllers? (sorry for the
> > description, but I don't know
what they are).
>
> Well, are you sure you speaking of the BOV here
? I ask because a BOV has no
> sensor nor controller but a larger in- and
output and a vacuum hose connection
> for the reference.
>
>
> There are two vacuum ports, one is open to atmosphere (located on
>
> underside of BOV)
>
> Umpf, never seen a BOV with two ports but
it sounds to me like this is one of
> the Racing BOVs. Is the stock bypass
valve still attached ?
>
> > Silver tank: Off the back side is a
vacuum line with an inline filter
> > (just like the in line filter on
the VPC pressure sensor) that leads to
> > a tee located ~ 1 inch
upstream the FPR.
>
> INMO, this is a vacuum/boost reservoir that
allows to increase fuel pressure as
> well as the FPR can act quicker due
to the pressure already there.
>
> > The other gadget is a
similar size dark green box with NOK stamped into it
> > and 3208
written below in blue ink. There are a total of three vacuum ports
>
> on this part, two at one end (both capped off) and one on the other
which
> > leads to a tee on the BOV line.
>
> Isn't this a
boost sensor device ? These things also provide to measure some
> pressure
difference using two ports and one for reference. If two are capped
> off,
the reference and difference is measured against ambient. Just an idea
and
> I'm not really use. You definitely have to find out where the
canisters are
> attached to electrically.
>
> > I'll feel
better when I understand the workings of everything under the
> > hood,
thanks for any help.
>
> Me too :) Let us know if you found out
more. Try to create a drawing like the
> one in the VPC paper (but with
electrical connections too). This then will help
> you a lot when
searching for problems or for fine tuning.
>
> Regards,
>
Roger, Switzerland
> 93'3000GT TT
Please review my BOV and
accompanying gadgets on my home page and help me understand
what I have
here:
http://people.mw.mediaone.net/twinturbo/stealth.html
Thanks,
Joe
Gonsowski
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 9 Jun 1999 18:57:54 EDT
From: TurboDrvn@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Great
Custom Performance Shop for our needs!
Hi all,
I know I'm giving
away all my secrets about my contacts for my VR4
(as you all have seen with
my previous posts re: custom shops, extended
warranty companies, etc.); but
I thought this would benefit us all. I just
wanted to inform us all of
a shop in Arizona that has truly provided me with
the best prices in
modification parts and needs for our fabulous cars! I
have dealt with
them for about a year now and have found them to be
reputable, efficient,
honest and have the best prices!
Apex R Motorsport - ask for Indra
(email: Apex_phx@hotmail.com); he used
to
own a modified 3000GT VR4 at one time and knows our cars (3000GT &
Stealths)
very well.
Apex R Motorsport - ask for Indra
2615 W.
Glendale
Phoenix, AZ 85051
phone #: (602)246-7505
email: Apex_PHX@hotmail.com
Inform Indra
that Ahmed sent ya so you can get the best prices on parts!
I hope
I was of some help.
Take care,
Ahmed "AL-Crazy" - '92 VR4
GReddy Profec B boost controller, GReddy turbo timer, Apex'i sequential
b.o.v., SPI motorsport boost gauge & pillar pod, K&N filtercharger,
Alamo
Downpipe, Hi-flow cat, Borla exhaust, KVR Cross drilled rotors with
carbon
fiber pads, Nitto Power Extreme NT-555 (255/40/17's) tires, Eibach
springs &
Enkei RP-O1 17x9 (42mm offset) custom racing wheels (Springs
and wheels not
installed yet). And Yes, my Transmission is
FIXED!!!!!
&
1987 Buick Grand National (way too many mods to
list!)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Jun 1999 01:06:24 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Possible installation mistakes?, VPC & BOV - revisited
I
reply this to the list as well as I might be wrong with my thoughts
:
> It's poor quality, but hey, its for learning and not so much
entertainment
But it helps a lot to understand the stuff !!! Well done
:)
BOV :
This is one of the "old" HKS racing BOV. Usually they are
not recommended on our
cars as they act only good on high boost (they are
built for). The open port is
ok as it is something like a reference to the
ambient.
The NOK thing is a solenoid valve and works together with the
small chrome
thing. For me this looks like the solenoid for the wastegate
control but the
connections do not make a lot sense to me :( Also the HKS
thing looks like an
old fashioned MAP sensor to read the boost but if it is
T-ed into the FPR line
to the FPR solenoid this doesn't make too much sense
either. It will work but is
not the best solution. But what does the solenoid
valve do ??? But I don't think
that they are related to the BOV.
My
next advice : check the boost controller parts. Follow the hose attached
to
the rear wastegate actuator and check where it leads to. Put this into
another
drawing then. Also show us the boost sensor for the VPC and the
tappings into
the plenum from the VPC
sensors.
Later,
Roger
- -----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 9 Jun 1999 19:14:42 EDT
From: RTTURB0@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: need to
find a good shop
Does anyone know of a good shop in Tulsa, or around
Tulsa, OKlahoma to take a
Stealth R/T TT.............dealership is just
playing the guessing game on
whats wrong with my car and
well............thier guessing game is gonna cost
me out the but..........so
any help with this and i will be very greatfull.
Jake
Glenpool,
OK
91 R/T TT
http://members.aol.com/rtturb0/enter.html
(Just Redone)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 09 Jun 1999 16:41:03 -0700
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Team3S:
REPLY BUTTON-Admin refresher
Hi Team;
Just to insure that everyone
is now aware of the recently
upgraded reply feature...please note:
You
now have two options:
1) Reply to the sender of the posting (reply to
sender/author)
2) Reply to the list and consequently also the sender (reply
to
all/list)
If you reply to the sender it will not involve anyone
else on the
list, as it will be private. If you reply to the list (reply
to
all) we will be part of the discussion. Hopefully this feature
will not
find traffic dropping off or solutions going private.
It was installed
by Forrest to make life more enjoyable for you
all. Salutations
Bob.
Best
Darc...for the admins
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 09 Jun 1999 17:19:49 -0700
From: "Terry Swift" <tlswift@hotbot.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Great Custom Performance Shop for our needs!
Actually they have
two shops - 1 in Glendale(West) and the other in Tempe(East). Tempe shop
run by Kwan, who has/had a built Eclipse that he raced. East # (602)
967-6515 or Toll Free 1-877-282-0680. They cover almost anything you want
- be it body kits, brake upgrades, suspension stuff, exhaust. Kwan says
"Find your best price and then give me a call, I'll do my best to beat it."
-
--
On Wed, 9 Jun 1999 18:57:54 TurboDrvn
wrote:
>Hi all,
>
> I know I'm giving away all my secrets
about my contacts for my VR4
>(as you all have seen with my previous
posts re: custom shops, extended
>warranty companies, etc.); but I
thought this would benefit us all. I just
>wanted to inform us all
of a shop in Arizona that has truly provided me with
>the best prices in
modification parts and needs for our fabulous cars! I
>have dealt
with them for about a year now and have found them to be
>reputable,
efficient, honest and have the best prices!
>
>Apex R Motorsport -
ask for Indra (email: Apex_phx@hotmail.com); he used to
>own a modified 3000GT VR4 at one time and knows our cars (3000GT &
Stealths)
>very well.
>
>Apex R Motorsport - ask for Indra
>2615 W. Glendale
>Phoenix, AZ 85051
>phone #:
(602)246-7505
>email: Apex_PHX@hotmail.com
>
>Inform
Indra that Ahmed sent ya so you can get the best prices on parts!
>
>I hope I was of some help.
>
>Take
care,
>
>Ahmed "AL-Crazy" - '92 VR4
>GReddy Profec B
boost controller, GReddy turbo timer, Apex'i sequential
>b.o.v., SPI
motorsport boost gauge & pillar pod, K&N filtercharger, Alamo
>Downpipe, Hi-flow cat, Borla exhaust, KVR Cross drilled rotors with
carbon
>fiber pads, Nitto Power Extreme NT-555 (255/40/17's) tires,
Eibach springs &
>Enkei RP-O1 17x9 (42mm offset) custom racing wheels
(Springs and wheels not
>installed yet). And Yes, my Transmission
is FIXED!!!!!
>&
>1987 Buick Grand National (way too many mods
to list!)
>
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
HotBot
- Search smarter.
http://www.hotbot.com
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 9 Jun 1999 22:40:54 EDT
From: TurboDrvn@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Great Custom Performance Shop for our needs!
In a message dated 6/9/99
7:20:06 PM Central Daylight Time,
tlswift@hotbot.com writes:
<<
Actually they have two shops - 1 in Glendale(West) and the other in
Tempe(East). Tempe shop run by Kwan, who has/had a built Eclipse that
he
raced. East # (602) 967-6515 or Toll Free 1-877-282-0680.
They cover almost
anything you want - be it body kits, brake upgrades,
suspension stuff,
exhaust. Kwan says "Find your best price and then
give me a call, I'll do my
best to beat it."
--
>>
Hi Terry,
Yes, there is Big Kwan and Indra; they both know me
well; great guys!
I've heard a whole lot of his AWD Eclipse as
well. They will take care of
us for almost all of our
needs!
Take care,
Ahmed - '92 VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:10:49 -0500
From: "Matt Jannusch" <mattj@fallon.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Split Second MAF kit / VPC (long)
> - large MAF (can we get the MAF
only from them ?)
> - electronics that can :
> - convert the MAF
signal to Karman Vortex style
> - rpm related idle control
> - O2
sensor readings
> - MAP sensor readings (additional sensor)
> - IDC
readings in % (for the guys who do not have a S-AVCR)
> - automatically
adjusting (in a small range) regarding O2 sensors
> - automatically
adjusting reagrding boost readings (controllable)
> - parametric change of
input/output (10 positions)
> - alarm functions for high IDC or low O2
readings (sound, light,
> activity)
> - serial port to record the
readouts on a PC (mini data logging)
> - 2 row backlighted LCD display for
the readouts
> - Price including filter : $950 (I'd buy it
then)
This sounds almost exactly what the EFI Systems PMS provides.
It has a
larger MAF (hotwire-style), converts MAF to Karman Vortex (Eclipse
PMS),
idle fuel and timing control, O2 sensor readout (and datalog), MAP
readout
(and datalog), Injector Duty Cycle percentage (and pulsewidth)
readout (and
datalog), full adjustment of fuel and timing based upon throttle
position
and manifold pressure (and use of nitrous, if so hooked-up),
full
datalogging, 2-row backlit LCD display and control pad.
What is
missing is the alarm functions. Right now it is available for the
DSM
cars, and I'd think the most difficult thing involved in making it work
on a
3/S car would be 2 more injector and coil drivers and the appropriate
harness
to connect it to the car. Maybe we could convince them to make a
3/S
version of the PMS and get almost all of the items on Roger's wishlist?
The
price would probably be higher than the target of $950, more
like
$1500-$2000, but you get the timing adjustments as well. It can
also work
as a bleeder-style boost controller too.
http://www.efisystems.com
-
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
End
of Team3S Digest V1 #202
****************************
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info and FAQ, see our web page at http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm