--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #176
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest         Wednesday, May 12 1999         Volume 01 : Number 176




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:51:39 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: AGIP oil in our Getrag

> that I got for AGIP. The other place that recommended it was from an exotic
> shop (Porsche). I have Redline MT90 right now (which we saved in a bottle).

Well, depending on how long it was in the tranny I'd reuse it or get with new
Redline. I'd not go for the Agip stuff. Redline is well proven !

- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:26:05 EDT
From: MitsuVR41@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Steam source located

I located the steam source.....It is coming from the exhaust !!!  I'm having
trouble locating the section and part name but.....there is a steel braided
looking section that seems to have a little flexibility in it.  The steam
seems to be seeping through the braids or something to that nature.   My
intake plenum.....and backside of the  engine seem extremely hot, but my temp
guage in the  car reads normal (notch under half way).  I changed my oil
again today.....and went back to Castrol Syntec 10w 30.  My oil pressure went
back up to were it use to be.....but still is lower than normal.  I have had
gasoline drip out of my exhaust in the past.  Assuming my exhaust may be
stopped up or clogged.....do you guys think this would cause my out take to
over heat....and the heat and exhaust back up and over work
itself.....causing the rear end of the engine area to heat up and seem so
hot?????  Another thing.....would disconnecting my exhaust and running the
car to see if it runs better be an ideal thing to do to check the exhaust for
clogging??   Thanks
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:51:52 -0700
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Steam source located

MitsuVR41 (I keep wondering if you have a name)...

I believe you're referring to the flex section in the downpipe (it's just in
front of the main cat). While I've never had this happen to me, a Corvette
owner here at work was telling about his main cat being so clogged that the
car wouldn't run. Soooo, it sounds like you're on the right track, it could
be that you have a clogged main cat which is causing significant back
pressure on the engine. The quickest way to check is to separate the front
half of the exhaust (at the main cat) and take a look. Better yet, run it
(in the garage) with the exhaust disconnected from the precats and see if
the symptoms disappear. Best would be to pull that stock assembly and
replace it with an ATR (or similar) downpipe and high flow cat.

Looking forward...Chris

1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/blown turbo seal mod)


- -----Original Message-----
From: MitsuVR41@aol.com [mailto:MitsuVR41@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 11:26 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Steam source located


I located the steam source.....It is coming from the exhaust !!!  I'm having

trouble locating the section and part name but.....there is a steel braided
looking section that seems to have a little flexibility in it.  The steam
seems to be seeping through the braids or something to that nature.   My
intake plenum.....and backside of the  engine seem extremely hot, but my
temp
guage in the  car reads normal (notch under half way).  I changed my oil
again today.....and went back to Castrol Syntec 10w 30.  My oil pressure
went
back up to were it use to be.....but still is lower than normal.  I have had

gasoline drip out of my exhaust in the past.  Assuming my exhaust may be
stopped up or clogged.....do you guys think this would cause my out take to
over heat....and the heat and exhaust back up and over work
itself.....causing the rear end of the engine area to heat up and seem so
hot?????  Another thing.....would disconnecting my exhaust and running the
car to see if it runs better be an ideal thing to do to check the exhaust
for
clogging??   Thanks
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:51:30 -0500
From: "Gabriel Estrada" <typhoonzz@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Steam source located

Along the line of Catalitic converters/  How hard would it be to replace the
precats with a piece of straight pipe?  Would I get a quicker turbo spool,
or would this just cause problems?  I did this on my truck and the quicker
spool was amazing.  Needed a boost controller to keep the spikes down, but
it was a dramatic increase in power.  Has anyone done this?  Not concerned
with emission laws as we don't have any.
Thanks in advance,
Gabriel Estrada
94 Pearl Yellow VR-4
92 Gmc Typhoon
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 2:51 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Steam source located


> Soooo, it sounds like you're on the right track, it could
> be that you have a clogged main cat which is causing significant back
> pressure on the engine. The quickest way to check is to separate the front
> half of the exhaust (at the main cat) and take a look. Better yet, run it
> (in the garage) with the exhaust disconnected from the precats and see if
> the symptoms disappear. Best would be to pull that stock assembly and
> replace it with an ATR (or similar) downpipe and high flow cat.
>
> Looking forward...Chris
>
> 1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/blown turbo seal mod)
>


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:12:49 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Taking out cats

>Along the line of Catalitic converters/  How hard would it be to replace the
>precats with a piece of straight pipe? 

If we are going to get into this topic, I have a few questions:

1. Why do those furshlugginer downpipes cost so dang much? It's just a
piece of SS pipe with a flange and no cats, right? Is this yet another
ripoff? 

2. Can we take all the cats off and then get through an inspection later?
Is it wise to keep the old system and stick it back on when necessary? (If
it's anything like rotors, I should be able to change it back in 10
minutes). Will a VR4 pass the 49 states emissions with just one main cat?
We don't have emission inspections in Iowa yet, but Murphy's Law says that
the very second I take down my exhaust, IDOT will start inspecting.

3. How much trouble is it to take down the entire exhaust system? Does
anyone sell a cat-less replacement?

Rich/old poop/gasp! kof!

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 18:07:26 EDT
From: "Rice-Burner Crusher" <stealth_es@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: Newbie Questions

I own a 1993 Dodge Stealth ES, and today I was giving it a very thorough
cleaning for the first time since I bought it, and I came across a couple of
things that I had questions about.

1).  Why does the rear seat bottom release and come up?  Is there something
under there, or is there room for storage?

2).  I took out the spare tire to clean up some pine needles that had fallen
into the well, and I found two loose wires behind the rear seats.  They were
both female ends, and one looked like a computer keyboard plug.  Anyone know
what these are?

3).  Tire pressure.  The car door says 32 front, 29 rear.. but the tires say
44 psi ..  What should I go with?

4).  How do I change the rear cargo area's light bulb?

5).  The driver's side seat belt has trouble retracting.  Is there a way to
make it work better?

Any input would be great!!


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 23:30:56 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Taking out cats

> 1. Why do those furshlugginer downpipes cost so dang much? It's just a
> piece of SS pipe with a flange and no cats, right? Is this yet another
> ripoff?

Do not mix downpipe and pre-cat replacements ! A dp usually starts after the
precats and end at the main cat. Stainless steel, the right bends/welds and the
proper design makes them expensive as some handwork must be done. There are dp
available that removes the front pre-cat with a normal pipe. The rear precat
cannot be replaced due to the the complicated flange to the turbo and the little
space available.

> 2. Can we take all the cats off and then get through an inspection later?

This depends on the State / Country you're in.

> Is it wise to keep the old system and stick it back on when necessary?

In my country, yes :( Guess what I have to do next weekend ....

> 3. How much trouble is it to take down the entire exhaust system? Does
> anyone sell a cat-less replacement?

The only trouble is due to the weight of the stock system and the available room
with the car on jacks. No full free exhaust available, even the Trust system
leaves the rear pre-cat untouched. I run the car with and without the main cat
(ATR high flow cat) and never recognized any power loss.

Gutting the precats will help to free up the restriction of the exhaust much
more than any cat-back system. There are cars with stock exhaust dynoed around
550hp in Europe (one crashed in France).

// Roger

- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 23:43:28 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Steam source located

Chris is very right about the clogged cat and I'd definitely check it out. But I
also know of broken flex sections that got damaged and leaked. Of course this is
an exhaust leak and is very "smellable" inside the car as well as the heat will
come up the engine when not driving.

> looking section that seems to have a little flexibility in it.

The flex sections should isolate the engine vibrations from the exhaust as well
as reducing stress to the turbo mountings.

> The steam seems to be seeping through the braids or something to that nature.

Definitely broken flex section.

> My intake plenum.....and backside of the  engine seem extremely hot, but my
> temp guage in the  car reads normal (notch under half way).

Therefore the heat is generated externally the engine.

> I changed my oil again today.....and went back to Castrol Syntec 10w 30.  My
> oil pressure went back up to were it use to be.....but still is lower than
> normal.

Not a big problem so far.

> I have had gasoline drip out of my exhaust in the past.  Assuming my
> exhaust may be stopped up or clogged.....

Right assumption. Also have the O2 sensor checked as they (or only one) may be
defective and gives a wrong voltage to the ECU causing it to run over-rich. This
can cause running gas into the exhaust where it gets ignited. But this should be
very noticeable.

> Another thing.....would disconnecting my exhaust and running the
> car to see if it runs better be an ideal thing to do to check the exhaust for
> clogging??

Well, you can't check the pre-cats with this method. I'd remove the main cat and
check it out for any clogging. You can also get the front pre-cat for this
purpose.

Good luck,
Roger

- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
K&N FIPK,Magnecor wires,Blitz DSBC/gauge/Dual Timer,Apexi AFC,HKS SBOV,
ATR DP/testpipe,Borla Cat-back,OZ Mito2 rims,Yoko AVS-Z1,braided brake lines
Bremsa brakes,u-Mevius Street Race pads

Check out: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/3000gt.html


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:41:40 -0700
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Taking out cats - LONG

Rich & Gabriel...

This has been discussed before, but I don't know that anyone has summarized
the thread. I'll give it a shot, anyone else feel free to jump in. Let me
preface all this by saying that any removal of cats is intended for off road
use only.

1. How hard would it be to replace the precats with a piece of straight
pipe? 

My answer...not too difficult, given that you have the ability to form the
bends, and weld the flanges. There have been a number of custom downpipes
manufactured. Most, if not all, replace the front precat and main cat, while
leaving the rear intact. This is because the angles and flanging are quite
awkward. It's important (from the flow perspective) to have mandrel bends.
Remember, the last I heard, the fine for a shop removing a cat is $10K.
Soooo, there's a limit to how many muffler shops are willing to do this work
if they don't know you well.

2. Why do those furshlugginer downpipes cost so dang much? It's just a piece
of SS pipe with a flange and no cats, right? Is this yet another rip-off?

My answer...to get a good fit, with no leaks, and no interference is not a
simple task. Aside from materials ($150?), there's labor at $65 an hour
(unless you have all the equipment at home). Again, it's not just straight
pipe with angles, but mandrel bends. It quickly becomes a $300+ venture, at
which point you're over half way to buying one. There has been some
listmembers who've tried to get precat replacements from SS and found shops
that want $300 just to design and produce one set of those.

3. Can we take all the cats off and then get through an inspection later? Is
it wise to keep the old system and stick it back on when necessary?

My answer...I don't know of a state where you could pass emissions w/o any
of the cats. This is why ATR has had a lot of success with their test
pipe/high flow cat combination. You can swap out one for the other with four
bolts (10 minutes if you fit under your car better than I fit under mine). I
think most people have kept their stock downpipe and cat...just in case. The
catback system can be recycled as it does not affect emissions.

4. Will a VR4 pass the 49 states emissions with just one main cat?

My answer...consensus seems to be that a main cat only will pass emissions
if the car is completely warmed up. This has been tested in  a number of
states, but I don't know about all forty-nine. A number of list members have
posted a technique for heating up the car, then swapping the main cat. If
you've had a custom downpipe made that replaces the cats, you can still heat
the car up, then swap back to the front half of the system. My test is
coming up in three months.

5. How much trouble is it to take down the entire exhaust system?

My answer...it's a matter of access. If you have a hoist and can stand under
the car, you can probably drop the whole system in a half hour. If you're
working on your back with six inches of clearance, it might take two hours.
Functionally, it's only three or four hangers and some bolts. Of course mine
were rusted solid, adding some more time and swearing.

6. Does anyone sell a cat-less replacement?

ATR and Alamo both sell downpipes with a test pipe. No one I've heard of
(and I researched this question for quite a while two years ago) has a 3SI
downpipe that replaces both precats. Numerous manufacturing challenges with
the rear precat. Most listmembers have taken the time (and necessary
precautions) to gut their precats. It leaves the O2 sensor in place, but
reduces back pressure.

I hope this helps. There was a excellent post on gutting the precats last
year. It should be in the archives, or I can dig it out of my folders if
someone e-mails me privately.

Looking forward...Chris

1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/blown turbo seal mod)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 00:42:06 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Newbie Questions

> 1).  Why does the rear seat bottom release and come up?  Is there something
> under there, or is there room for storage?

It just makes wiring an additional amplifier/CD-Changer/MD-Changer and cleaning
easier.

> 2).  I took out the spare tire to clean up some pine needles that had fallen
> into the well, and I found two loose wires behind the rear seats.  They were
> both female ends, and one looked like a computer keyboard plug.  Anyone know
> what these are?

Connections for the factory CD-Changer

> 3).  Tire pressure.  The car door says 32 front, 29 rear.. but the tires say
> 44 psi ..  What should I go with?

44psi

> 4).  How do I change the rear cargo area's light bulb?

The one on the pass side ?? It just popped out with a little hlp of a
screwdriver wrapped in a towel. The bulp can the be changed from behind the
glass.

> 5).  The driver's side seat belt has trouble retracting.  Is there a way to
> make it work better?

Remove the driver side of the rear wall. You'll then find out that this is much
easier with the rear seat bottom removed :) Then check out the mechanism and
maybe only a little silicone spray helps. Mine had trouble too and I did this.
Worked good for some months until it started again. Now I live with that.

Cheers,
Roger

- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
K&N FIPK,Magnecor wires,Blitz DSBC/gauge/Dual Timer,Apexi AFC,HKS SBOV,
ATR DP/testpipe,Borla Cat-back,OZ Mito2 rims,Yoko AVS-Z1,braided brake lines
Bremsa brakes,u-Mevius Street Race pads

Check out: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/3000gt.html

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 18:46:52 EDT
From: RTTURB0@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Newbie Questions

In a message dated 5/11/99 5:43:29 PM Central Daylight Time,
robby@swissonline.ch writes:

<<  3).  Tire pressure.  The car door says 32 front, 29 rear.. but the tires
say
 > 44 psi ..  What should I go with? >>
The 44 psi is just the recomended tire pressure for that tire
cold...........id use 32 in front and 29 in back............

Jake (Tire Tech)
91 Pearl White R/T TT
http://members.aol.com/rtturb0/enter.html
Blitz SSBC, K&N Cone Filter Charger
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 18:00:40 -0500
From: "Trent" <rtrent@nlci.com>
Subject: Team3S: Hot Weather Performance

All,

As summer air temps move in, I find my performance suffering just enough to
make me want to compensate.  Winter performance is so crisp and strong you
forget how much things get slowed up by the higher temps.  I've been
pondering adding nitrous to compensate but I dont want to put out a match
with a fire hose so to speak.  For those with nitrous knowledge, is it
possible to add a small enough dose to simulate winter air density?

Thanks in advance,
DaveT/92TT/13g/AFC/AVC/500ccRC's

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:55:38 -0700
From: Yoss <yoss@aracnet.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Taking out cats

Roger:

On May 11, R.G. said:
[snip]
> Gutting the precats will help to free up the restriction of the exhaust much
> more than any cat-back system. There are cars with stock exhaust dynoed around
> 550hp in Europe (one crashed in France).

What is the cost of gutting (er...what _is_ gutting?) the precats, and is the
cost/hp ratio lower with the precat gut mod than with a catback mod for a car
that already has the K&N FIPK installed?

On May 12, R.G. said:
> > 3).  Tire pressure.  The car door says 32 front, 29 rear.. but the tires say
> > 44 psi ..  What should I go with?
>
> 44psi

Isn't the 44psi the _maximum_ tire pressure rating for the tire?  I was
informed that the only time anybody runs them so high is during autocross.

- -sankar

- --
*******************************************************************************
It is too dangerous, you must not go alone.
Hey, I'm your cha'DIch.
    -- Worf and Picard, "Sins of the Father", stardate 43685.2
*******************************************************************************
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 18:57:00 -0400
From: William Lynn Larsen <wlarsen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Steam source located

Gabriel

You may have answered this in a private email and if you have I will
apologize now.  But, I am going to ask the hard question straight out.
When you did the crankcase flush did you do ALL of these steps

1. Before you drained old oil you added the crankcase flush to the
engine oil.
2. Ran the engine for 5 minutes at IDLE or no more than 1500RPM.
3. Shut the engine off and drained all of the old oil letting it drain
for at least 10    minutes.
4. Removed the old oil filter.
5. Installed a new oil filter.
6. Filled the crankcase with new Mobil 1 15-50 or 10-30 oil.
7. Started the engine and checked for leaks around the drain plug and
oil filter.

I am sorry if this seems really basic, but I have known people to do
some really strange stuff and since I don't know you, have to ask the
basic questions so we can put to rest any notions of a crankcase flush
gone bad. Especially since it was done right before a ~140 mile trip.
Please don't take this personally.

Regards,
Lynn
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 18:03:40 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Newbie Questions

>> 3).  Tire pressure.  The car door says 32 front, 29 rear.. but the tires
say
>> 44 psi ..  What should I go with?
>
>44psi

I hate to disagree with Roger the wizard, but I think 44 psi is the maximum
pressure. It's what I run on open track events, and the tires are really
stiff. On the street, you oughta go with 32/29. Unless, of course, you are
running on the Autobahn at 160+ mph like Roger does.

Rich/old poop/94 VR4


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 18:31:51 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Taking out cats

>
>My answer...to get a good fit, with no leaks, and no interference is not a
>simple task. Aside from materials ($150?), there's labor at $65 an hour
>(unless you have all the equipment at home). Again, it's not just straight
>pipe with angles, but mandrel bends. It quickly becomes a $300+ venture, at
>which point you're over half way to buying one. There has been some
>listmembers who've tried to get precat replacements from SS and found shops
>that want $300 just to design and produce one set of those.

OK, that's the cost of the FIRST one. Then, you send the prototype to a
fabricator to have 500 copies bent up and welded on a CNC mandrel bending
jig, so that additional copies cost $10 for parts and $5 for labor per
unit, meaning that they should be able to sell them for 2X cost, or $30 per
pipe (about right for an exhaust pipe, eh?). So I repeat my question: Why
does a downpipe cost hundreds of dollars? Are we being ripped off?

Most listmembers have taken the time (and necessary
>precautions) to gut their precats. It leaves the O2 sensor in place, but
>reduces back pressure.

This gets back to my question about passing future emission tests. If I gut
the precats, and then can't pass an emission test, it will cost me a bloody
fortune to buy new stock downpipes with precats from Mitsu -- probably even
more than the ripoff SS downpipes. To me, it seems like the ideal solution
is to drop the entire stock system, seal it up and put it away somewhere,
and install an entirely new exhaust with no cats. Then, if Big Brother
shows up with an emission test, we just get the stock system out of the
attic and put it back on. Or bolt in a huge catalytic converter just to
pass the test.

What's wrong with this approach? Where can I buy a complete replacement
exhaust?

I am beginning to think that what the 3000GT world needs is somebody who is
willing to engineer and build some simple, straightforward racing equipment
and sell it at a nice -- but not ripoff -- price. Anybody like that out there?

>I hope this helps. There was a excellent post on gutting the precats last
>year. It should be in the archives, or I can dig it out of my folders if
>someone e-mails me privately.

Thanks. I saved Roger's instructions (and a couple of others) last year.

Rich/old poop/kof kof
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:57:23 -0400
From: Ron Thompson <rtetetet@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Newbie Questions

1. You will fin a wire catch that locks into a hook on the right and
left front edge of the back seat. Push back and pull up and the seat
will release. No storage, seat is form fit to pan.

2.CD player connections???


3. > The 44 psi is just the recommended tire pressure for that tire
> cold...........id use 32 in front and 29 in back............


44 PSI is the MAXIMUM recommended inflation the tire is rated for. The
door jam sticker is the Manufacturer's  recommended tire pressures,
also cold. You can vary the pressure to suit your preferences but
below the recommended 32/29 will cause abnormal tire wear. Unless you
have the 245/45 18 set of tires rims you won't want to go near 44 PSI.
Doesn't the ES have 15 or 16' rims? Above 35 PSI on the 15's will
cause traction loss as your contact patch diminishes in size and
excessive center wear on the tires. You have some leeway on the 16"
rims. Start at 32/29 and drive it a while, go up to 34/30 and try it
next. Also drive through some water onto dry pavement slowly and get
out and look at the wet tread pattern on the pavement and see when the
full width of the tread does not leave a solid mark.

4. This will sound strange; the belt is too limp. Pull it all the way
out and iron it, yes iron it with some starch at the Nylon setting on
the iron so you don't melt it. It is so limp that it folds and and
wrinkles so it binds and won't retract. The other way is to remove the
inner trim panels and increase the sprig tension on the retractor is
it pulls harder, but it will pull harder on you when you drive.

Ron
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 20:01:54 -0400
From: Pete Ryner <pryner@ij.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Newbie Questions

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE9BE9.39F38B20
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Rich is right.
The 44 psi is the max TIRE rating.  The door listing is the =
manufacture's recommendation for the vehicle.  Use the door listing for =
normal driving.  Extreme driving is another case!
Pete
91 VR4

- -----Original Message-----
From: Merritt [SMTP:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 7:04 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Newbie Questions

>> 3).  Tire pressure.  The car door says 32 front, 29 rear.. but the =
tires
say
>> 44 psi ..  What should I go with?
>
>44psi

I hate to disagree with Roger the wizard, but I think 44 psi is the =
maximum
pressure. It's what I run on open track events, and the tires are really
stiff. On the street, you oughta go with 32/29. Unless, of course, you =
are
running on the Autobahn at 160+ mph like Roger does.

Rich/old poop/94 VR4


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is =
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE9BE9.39F38B20
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

eJ8+IikAAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy
b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYA9AEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL
AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAWwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHN0ZWFsdGgtMzAwMGd0
QGxpc3Quc2lyaXVzLmNvbQBTTVRQAHN0ZWFsdGgtMzAwMGd0QGxpc3Quc2lyaXVzLmNvbQAAHgAC
MAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAAB8AAABzdGVhbHRoLTMwMDBndEBsaXN0LnNpcml1cy5j
b20AAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAACEAAAAnc3RlYWx0aC0zMDAwZ3RAbGlzdC5zaXJp
dXMuY29tJwAAAAACAQswAQAAACQAAABTTVRQOlNURUFMVEgtMzAwMEdUQExJU1QuU0lSSVVTLkNP
TQADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAHgD2XwEAAAAfAAAAc3RlYWx0aC0zMDAwZ3RAbGlzdC5zaXJpdXMu
Y29tAAACAfdfAQAAAFsAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABzdGVhbHRoLTMwMDBndEBs
aXN0LnNpcml1cy5jb20AU01UUABzdGVhbHRoLTMwMDBndEBsaXN0LnNpcml1cy5jb20AAAMA/V8B
AAAAAwD/XwAAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAACoXEBBIABAB0AAABSRTogVGVhbTNTOiBOZXdiaWUg
UXVlc3Rpb25zAJ0JAQWAAwAOAAAAzwcFAAsAFAABADYAAgAzAQEggAMADgAAAM8HBQALABQAAAAW
AAIAEgEBCYABACEAAAAxMDJCMDk1NjBBOUNCRTExODQ3ODE2NzhGQzQ3NjEwMQDsBgEDkAYAwAoA
ACEAAAALAAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkA
gEnVpAqcvgEeAHAAAQAAAB0AAABSRTogVGVhbTNTOiBOZXdiaWUgUXVlc3Rpb25zAAAAAAIBcQAB
AAAAFgAAAAG+nAqkxAyhtIIH3BHTnHxERVNUAAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEA
AAAOAAAAcHJ5bmVyQGlqLm5ldAAAAAMABhDVn/qnAwAHEMwCAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABSSUNISVNS
SUdIVFRIRTQ0UFNJSVNUSEVNQVhUSVJFUkFUSU5HVEhFRE9PUkxJU1RJTkdJU1RIRU1BTlVGQUNU
VVJFU1JFQ09NTUVOREFUSU9ORk9SVEhFVkVISUNMRVVTRVRIAAAAAAIBCRABAAAApAcAAKAHAABs
EQAATFpGdYKCt/0DAAoAcmNwZzEyNXIyDGBjMQMwAQcLYG6RDhAwMzMPFmZlD5JPAfcCpANjAgBj
aArAc4RldALRcHJxMgAAkioKoW5vElAgMAHQhQHQNg+gMDUwNBQh8wHQFBA0fQdtAoMAUAPU+xH/
EwtiE+EUUBOyGPQU0K8HEwKAApEI5jsJbzAa3/plDjA1HAodIRzfHekb9P8eEhx/IE8gDR+PHb8c
DxBg/DI4Jdom8SavJ7kb9CfivyZPKh8p3SlfJ48rVDkOUB8upDABKCMwAAKCc3R56mwHkGgJ4HQA
ABNQA/BQZGN0bAqxXDJYYZhkanUxcAUQZ2gFQjsWMgwBYwnAMmADMHNufGV4FzAHsAWwAMACc3Ox
AFBzYjIUUDFgYRPw9FxrCeBwC5AyPzKjCGDrMpALgGUxoHY5YAFAM5u/DDA0ZCgAN0AEoAuAZyfx
6TTmYmEXEGQCIDWgNUbnMdAzkDuRIDExMw5QNp//N684vwBROfwAoDRuPH89hv8xJA/APo8/n0Cv
DlA570MP20QfPbMzAoITEGM2YEuhkzOQPbB0aTmQIEQBEKhhdWwFQFAKwGEJwOBhcGggRgIhNiQl
QOhmaS0PkDgBQDkwUDPrRw8yo2ILIHIJUFJSFqDZUlJ3NCVBFwBwAdBNcn8zv0qfS6ZP0E6QBRAC
MC1DTzADYTogVG9XsFModWJqBZB0V7BEYeh0ZTo2JDZP/1EPUh//Uy9UOTHAPaMOIUuhOrYOUJtV
b1Z+UjmBFwEgSD2R+wSQNiQ3WW9af1uPXJ05Dy9dvw+QaXAI0GIKsHQ4/0n6D1RGEF+/YMZqAGHQ
C1C8eS9PQFywCxFiRXM2JP8oAGM/ZE9lX1yvVE9rX2xv7211V9JXdFipOW+/Mz8DMB1pszlzn3Sv
eqBEb2P+dQeAAjAF0E8AGgF40ngw93hwcVEBgG5YMABgCfBNoO99AAIBNeBeUmUA8H0AMYCScB6A
XHYIkHdrC4D+ZGtAgKIE8AdAEGEBQA4A73EiPYKCBQIQbwVCFyES8h1YwG0LUVjAThA6XFz1VwBv
TuFtTzADEAeQhLAmTQ3gA2BzbwGAIE/XASAN4H/wXIZmRQDAAxD6LktwdH3QFxB4cDUhZ3L2eAFA
fwFuMdAa8IgETjSeYwMgEvMAgAWQbHZBof9G0A5wNeCKkgGQACCLIoDx/31BAcGKkRbgD3AAAEbQ
DND5AZAgLhoSiogOUItCTnD/eMCLv4zPjd8PwEbQBYGPf9uQj5GfbGtARtBsjz+T/32VBSmODCVA
kt+Xv5T0YvwgKAKRmN+K01lQlo+bT/+cX51viwBjEJ6yi4+gH6Ev/44MKACev6Q/pU+mX4sAeAD/
oz+oz6nfquQK+QMweC95P7l6zXtSDeBPIAQAILJDCi4KhVQx0CA0NCC2cACQs+J0tQEAwHhXwDhJ
UkW0EFiwO5EuIP+040twBbFncDFwPcK1p4tQ305AsNAIcH/wF4B1g0ATgGu0AQWRbX0xZLaxAiAg
d39xtcNn0GgN4DGgtwFV/xNxtdK3e7ryE1A14rdgBRD7gKC240U1gBrwB4C+BrPiXxNBtdEFwIGQ
FxAhCoVQfRcgZQqFr6Swb7F/BUB74jkOkFZSNAqFwW1ncH+tosJfw28IwTTyNaAS8mLIa21rrLMg
X32AAxDRWKFhfS3K0k+yQQuAzb3hTQeQRlBnZcrTwWv/sAZi/W8gxo9wv3HPZz9oT39pX2pvs0TI
1ldzDILLoXIDBRACQCBbU01UUDY6B4DX40CGoLqAci2TTvHPIHMuNWB0Xcx//82EbrvOv8/P0N9y
v7LMDCG/yOUGYAIw12QaIsj0VApQUnO6gHksfXF5PfAxx+PgL/DkkCA3OhRATpD+TcFm4YlX0eKN
MXA9kE5wbGgtFBDUQGfZALfCLvcAkAUQ4AAuuiHlT+IRWCWP4o1h0FexPZBtM1NXsGUHwWIIkCBR
44G6onP/2j+wQsZPx1/gP7NTxV/vT9PwX8QzPj5MsCm3Aujg/xOAF3DLwbkxtwWBkAXAt3PlRlB5
BCAzMrrgA2ACMF3j4DJ6oBrwCsAutwBi/9IgtcNN0PcBCoX4cfKv87/P9M/11rU1+dEgVxbgBUAL
McAIYGw1IEkgZ2/2IAPw5+A/+3/8j/2f9dT9CoU+tTC1YcTsAJD/4bwx/wDAPbDL4QnRANMVgcwA
uxT9FnB6CxHj4PoCAJDn4O7gemu1L3gVAH0g+tX2+Ek0dCe/wHf/4gCQcnX77vC6wW+AYO7w8TC5
AAmw+9KREPBz4+C4wDUg+ke/0Pv2wfmRbG0w+tZN0IbwtwC+Tw2RtQHxITHh4+B50hC9DSB1ScGV
UAC1+LEv+WD9twBVp7DLwePghiDAUNIQ/xcBEcQPcfrVDPE7gg0itdLqQdIgb0swaO7w//FZQPww
K7YATxHSQEagB+VLcE+FgLR2+tWzoi9vAGFw8bygcC85tUDEv/rVbWGPudBYIIGA1/BiZS8NAHsc
h7PgboMgE+G5MADQZR+qQPsAzACz4vFwdHA6yC8vdx+wLmIWsH9xV/cBtGDpQS/sVC7xcG0fruDJ
Vn8ByinBZn0AAAEjsAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAADAIAQ/////0AABzAgJBluCpy+AUAACDAgJBlu
Cpy+AQsAAIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOFAAAAAAAAAwACgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYA
AAAAEIUAAAAAAAADAAWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAAtw0AAAMACYAIIAYAAAAAAMAA
AAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAAHgAfgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4w
AAsAI4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAwAkgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAA
EYUAAAAAAAADACaACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAYhQAAAAAAAB4ANYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAA
AABGAAAAADaFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeADaACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEA
AAAAAAAAHgA3gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAOIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4APQABAAAABQAA
AFJFOiAAAAAAAwANNP03AAAXoQ==

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE9BE9.39F38B20--

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 20:20:15 -0400
From: Ron Thompson <rtetetet@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Taking out cats

> OK, that's the cost of the FIRST one. Then, you send the prototype to a fabricator to have 500 copies bent up and welded on a CNC mandrel bending jig, so that additional copies cost $10 for parts and $5 for labor per unit, meaning that they should be able to sell them for 2X cost, or $30 per

You have never had your own business, eh old poop. Wholesale is always
3X cost of materials, labor and overhead. At retail it's 2X whole
sale. You will never get the materials down to $10 and there is
considerable amount of labor and hand work plus the amount you
invested in the CNC machinery. I doubt 500 copies would sell that fast
considering the amount of places doing tail pipe testing and the lack
of mechanics that can swap them out and back. We suffer from the lack
of economy of scale that so many of the mass produced car benefit from
like the Eclipse. W just don't have the numbers for anybody to get
excited about making them since profits are not going to bring in as
much as something that there is 10x the potential audience. Example,
how many clutches sold in the group purchase??? Not a 100, just 11.

> This gets back to my question about passing future emission tests. If I gut
> the precats, and then can't pass an emission test, it will cost me a bloody
> fortune to buy new stock downpipes with precats from Mitsu -- probably even
> more than the ripoff SS downpipes. To me, it seems like the ideal solution
> is to drop the entire stock system, seal it up and put it away somewhere,

With a test pipe in your main cat's place and saving your pre cat down
pipes it would be a shorter change over. Some places have gotten
really strict, and nothing but stock passes. They won't even pass a
dual exhaust with a balance tube ahead of the cats!

> I am beginning to think that what the 3000GT world needs is somebody who is willing to engineer and build some simple, straightforward racing equipment and sell it at a nice -- but not ripoff -- price. Anybody like that out there?
>
But where is the incentive for someone to go to all the effort, money
makes the world go around. Most of my friends are too time poor to pay
attention, let along take on a charity project. It has to be a labor
of love only. Big, cool machines are expensive and only pay for
themselves when being billed out so they can pay the bank for the loan
it took to buy them. Government jobs take 5th priority.

Sorry for the dose of cold, humble reality.

Ron
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 20:37:06 EDT
From: RTTURB0@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Taking out cats

i know this has been asked before but i can remember the
responce..............

1.    what r the pro's and cons of gutting/removing the precats?

2.    what r the pro's and cons of gutting the main cat(if thats what its
called) or should u just replace it with a racing cat..........so u can pass
inspection?

Jake
91 Pear White R/T TT
http://members.aol.com/rtturb0/enter.html
Blitz SSBC, K&N Cone Filter Charger..........
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:49:54 +1200
From: Kevin Clark <Kevin.Clark@hnz.co.nz>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Newbie Questions

> 5).  The driver's side seat belt has trouble retracting.
>      Is there a way to make it work better?

This is a list of the more common problems with these cars:

  1.  Cracked dash vents
  2.  Peeling triangle windows next to door
  3.  Driver's seatbelt failing to retract
  4.  Hatch cover falling out of clamps
  5.  Plastic residue filming on inside of windows

There are a number of ways to fix such problems, and you
may like to check that there is not a sharp edge where
the seat belt goes into the wall panel as I seem to
remember some members mentioning that this can be a
problem.

Cheers,
Kevin.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 22:05:46 EDT
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: NHRA Rule book?

Is there a copy of the NHRA Rule Book on line someplace?
Thanks.
Arty 91 VR-4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 22:10:19 EDT
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Drag Slicks question

Does anyone know who makes drag slicks in a 17 inch size?
I tried both Goodyear and Mickey Thompson neither makes a 17 inch.
Thanks
Arty 91 VR-4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:19:59 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: Tire Pressure (WAS: Taking out cats)

Yikes.  44 PSI is the maximum pressure at the maximum load rating of that
tire.  It is VERY doubtful that optimal performance will be found at 44 psi,
but it largely depends on the tire the driving conditions.

The best place to start is with the door sticker pressure and adjust from
there to suit your tastes and performance requirements for your particular
tires.


Regards,

Barry

> -----Original Message-----
>
> Roger:
>
> On May 12, R.G. said:
> > > 3).  Tire pressure.  The car door says 32 front, 29 rear..
> but the tires say
> > > 44 psi ..  What should I go with?
> >
> > 44psi
>
> Isn't the 44psi the _maximum_ tire pressure rating for the tire?  I was
> informed that the only time anybody runs them so high is during autocross.
>
> -sankar

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 22:24:32 -0400
From: William Lynn Larsen <wlarsen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Newbie Questions

I have to go with Jake on this one, sorry Roger.  I went with the tire
pressure and prematurely ruined a great set of tires.  The centers wore
out much too fast because I was running too much pressure.

Regards,
Lynn

RTTURB0@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 5/11/99 5:43:29 PM Central Daylight Time,
> robby@swissonline.ch writes:
>
> <<  3).  Tire pressure.  The car door says 32 front, 29 rear.. but the tires
> say
>  > 44 psi ..  What should I go with? >>
> The 44 psi is just the recomended tire pressure for that tire
> cold...........id use 32 in front and 29 in back............
>
> Jake (Tire Tech)
> 91 Pearl White R/T TT
> http://members.aol.com/rtturb0/enter.html
> Blitz SSBC, K&N Cone Filter Charger
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:40:33 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Taking out cats

I can speak to the pre-cat eliminator pipes.  I had a set built as did at
least one other list member.

Most places who have seen them won't even touch the design.  Period.  There
are usually two concerns cited.  First the rear pre-cat is a relatively
complex design which requires some clever and time consuming fabrication
work.  Although mine were prototypes and therefore may have taken a bit
longer than absolutely necessary, there was significant time invested in
building just the rear pipe.  The front one is child's play.

The other reason is that the EPA can get downright gnarly if they catch wind
of a business producing and selling such pipes that find their way on road
going vehicles.

As to cost, consider the price of cutting heavy enough flanges, the labor
intensive tricky fabrication, and then add coating to the bill.  Adds up
quick.  $500-$750 USD for the pair would not be unreasonable.  Note that
this does not include the downpipe, just the pre-cat eliminators.

The complete exhaust is pretty easy to remove and reinstall except for the
rear pre-cat.  It is a real PITA.

Frankly, I question the measurable performance increase of gutted pre-cats,
but since noone has back to back dyno numbers or numerous comparitive 1320'
runs, any argument one way or the other is pretty much moot.

There may even be a solid argument against doing it.  The sudden expansion
of gases when they hit the much larger volume of a gutted pre-cat will
likely slow down exhaust flow significantly which is a big no-no for a
performance exhaust system.  I certainly cannot provide evidence of this
theory so I doubt discussion by itself would be conclusive.

More than one exhaust and performance shop (who would benefit by selling a
high flow cats, and they do sell them) have directed me that a healthy cat
is not as restrictive as we like to think.  *shrug*  My main cat is staying
put for the time being.


Regards,

Barry

> -----Original Message-----
>
> >Along the line of Catalitic converters/  How hard would it be to
> replace the
> >precats with a piece of straight pipe?
>
> If we are going to get into this topic, I have a few questions:
>
> 1. Why do those furshlugginer downpipes cost so dang much? It's just a
> piece of SS pipe with a flange and no cats, right? Is this yet another
> ripoff?
>
> 2. Can we take all the cats off and then get through an inspection later?
> Is it wise to keep the old system and stick it back on when necessary? (If
> it's anything like rotors, I should be able to change it back in 10
> minutes). Will a VR4 pass the 49 states emissions with just one main cat?
> We don't have emission inspections in Iowa yet, but Murphy's Law says that
> the very second I take down my exhaust, IDOT will start inspecting.
>
> 3. How much trouble is it to take down the entire exhaust system? Does
> anyone sell a cat-less replacement?
>
> Rich/old poop/gasp! kof!

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 21:44:09 -0500
From: "Dennis Moore" <stealth@kiva.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Newbie Questions

Welcome to our world ;)

I've read the other responses, and will disagree with a couple of them here.

> 2).  I took out the spare tire to clean up some pine needles that had
fallen
> into the well, and I found two loose wires behind the rear seats.  They
were
> both female ends, and one looked like a computer keyboard plug.  Anyone
know
> what these are?

These are connectors for a CD Changer.  I *may* have one available to sell
you, if you're interested.  BTW, Pioneer used to be the OEM for these cars,
but their current lineup of changers will not work.

> 3).  Tire pressure.  The car door says 32 front, 29 rear.. but the tires
say
> 44 psi ..  What should I go with?

32/29 for "normal" driving.  The owner's manual says to add 4psi front and
back if driving at sustained speeds of 100+.  I generally set mine at 34/31,
since I'm usually running 60-80.

> 5).  The driver's side seat belt has trouble retracting.  Is there a way
to
> make it work better?

OK, I know there is a web page with a 15 minute fix to this problem.  It
involves scraping some material off of the plastic cover which is dragging
on the belt as it tries to retract.  I remember that it's dirt simple, I
just can't remember the details or where it's posted.  Help?

Dennis Moore
stealth@kiva.net
93 Stealth ES

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:49:11 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Newbie Questions

Agreed.

The general rule for tire pressures is 10% increase from cold pressure when
hot and adjust from there to suit driving conditions and preferences.  The
other thing to use is a pyrometer if you're being totally serious about
track work but that's likely not what we're after.

If tire pressure increase exceeds 10% of the baseline cold pressure,
increase tire pressure.  Do the opposite if tire pressure does not increase
to around 10%.  The reason for this is tires with lower pressure move around
more.  The movement of the carcass translates into heat.

For the performance minded (track use where temperatures remain relatively
constant) you will typically want to run the lowest pressure possible
without causing excessive tire heat.  Heat will wear tires very rapidly.
You also need to balance that against contact patch which varies by tire
type and suspension geometry.

These guidelines are for performance oriented tire use.  Street is a
different deal.  You probably want the tires to last and to remain fairly
consistent under a broad variety of fairly tame driving conditions.  Even
moderately hot street driving is "tame".  A little more pressure (2-3 psi)
than recommended on the door will usually do the trick for highway driving
and door pressures are usually fine for most legal city driving.


Regards,

Barry

> -----Original Message-----
>
> I have to go with Jake on this one, sorry Roger.  I went with the tire
> pressure and prematurely ruined a great set of tires.  The centers wore
> out much too fast because I was running too much pressure.
>
> Regards,
> Lynn
>
> RTTURB0@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 5/11/99 5:43:29 PM Central Daylight Time,
> > robby@swissonline.ch writes:
> >
> > <<  3).  Tire pressure.  The car door says 32 front, 29 rear..
> but the tires
> > say
> >  > 44 psi ..  What should I go with? >>
> > The 44 psi is just the recomended tire pressure for that tire
> > cold...........id use 32 in front and 29 in back............
> >
> > Jake (Tire Tech)

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 22:25:56 -0500
From: Jeff Crabtree <wjcrabtree@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: Worthless?

- --------------FB74F9872707F633DB167CC8
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Maybe this isn't a technical question and to keep the S/N ratio down to
a minimum, please reply to me directly.

Some things have happened recently in my life which have me tossing
around the idea of getting rid of the Stealth.  Alot of you remember
that I had a fairly serious accident in November, for those of you who
don't, please visit Eric Bowden's website.  Here's a direct link---->
1991 Dodge Stealth Twin Turbo with a nosebleed... .

The car has subsequently been repaired and is in surprisingly good
structural condition.  The problem is that she's sporting roughly
150,000 miles and the accident was just about the straw that broke the
camel's back.  The other party's insurance company has refused
repeatedly to admit that they caused any mechanical damage to the
vehicle, even though the oil light is now on at idle(see accident
description).

I tell people the car is a '91 with 150K on it and they are shocked.  I
took very good care of this car,  but I have barely touched it since
November.

Anybody want to hazzard a guess at what I could get for her if I were to
sell?

>The engine obviously needs work
>the trannie needs to be rebuilt(I have the parts to do it)
>Everything else is in pretty good shape, all things considered.

I would only sell to a good home, it's like I'm selling one of my
kids(even though I don't have any), so if anybody here is interested in
a fixer-upper, or a (sigh) "parts" car. lemme know, make me an offer,
you might be surprised at what I'd take.
- --
- -Jeff Crabtree
    '91 Stealth R/T Turbo(#499)......for now
          '93 Wrangler 4.0L Sport
               St. Louis, MO


- --------------FB74F9872707F633DB167CC8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Maybe this isn't a technical question and to keep the S/N ratio down to
a minimum, please reply to me directly.
<p>Some things have happened recently in my life which have me tossing
around the idea of getting rid of the Stealth.&nbsp; Alot of you remember
that I had a fairly serious accident in November, for those of you who
don't, please visit Eric Bowden's website.&nbsp; Here's a direct link---->
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/5095/crabtree.html">1991
Dodge Stealth Twin Turbo with a nosebleed...</a> .
<p>The car has subsequently been repaired and is in surprisingly good structural
condition.&nbsp; The problem is that she's sporting roughly 150,000 miles
and the accident was just about the straw that broke the camel's back.&nbsp;
The other party's insurance company has refused repeatedly to admit that
they caused any mechanical damage to the vehicle, even though the oil light
is now on at idle(see accident description).
<p>I tell people the car is a '91 with 150K on it and they are shocked.&nbsp;
I took very good care of this car,&nbsp; but I have barely touched it since
November.
<p>Anybody want to hazzard a guess at what I could get for her if I were
to sell?
<p>>The engine obviously needs work
<br>>the trannie needs to be rebuilt(I have the parts to do it)
<br>>Everything else is in pretty good shape, all things considered.
<p>I would only sell to a good home, it's like I'm selling one of my kids(even
though I don't have any), so if anybody here is interested in a fixer-upper,
or a (sigh) "parts" car. lemme know, make me an offer, you might be surprised
at what I'd take.
<br>--
<br>-Jeff Crabtree
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; '91 Stealth R/T Turbo(#499)......for now
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; '93 Wrangler
4.0L Sport
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
St. Louis, MO
<br>&nbsp;</html>

- --------------FB74F9872707F633DB167CC8--

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 23:33:29 EDT
From: MrX2111@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Drag Slicks question

check nitto

X
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 23:51:08 EDT
From: Klusmanp@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Valve noise question

In a message dated 99-05-06 23:21:56 EDT, you write:

<< You may already know this, but we don't have lifters. The camshaft
 follower is a bridge like affair that spans between the valve stem and
 and these lifter like units some call valve lash limiters.  They are
 kept pumped up with oil, just like lifers, but just hold up their end of
 the bridge while the camshaft lobe pushes in the middle which causes the
 valve on the other end of the bridge to be opened.
 
 Regards,
 Lynn >>


This is just the information I was looking for! I did not, in fact, know
about this "pseudo-rocker-arm" device.

Talked to a guy who lives here in the same apartment complex and who used to
be an auto mechanic. Super sharp/nice guy who drives the previous style
mustang GT. He explained that the typical problem with hydraulic lifters is
that they will clog with oil deposits - especially if you SWITCH oil brands.
Different oil brands will often have a bad reaction and gum up the works.
Somehow, oil pressure is used to keep the lifter in constant contact with the
cam lobes. Deposits will block or restrict the supply of oil to the lash
adjuster - especially with lower oil pressure at idle (explains why tick goes
away at higher RPM and why it is worse when the oil is warm/thin and low
pressure)

I asked him about the difficulty in replacing the lifters. He said I'd
probably have to pull the timing belt and cams since most DOHC engines he had
worked on required this (lifters are actually nothing more than extension of
the valve stem and they sit directly under the camshaft). Your very timely
info about the mechanism used for the valve lash adjusters in our engines
makes me believe that it might be possible to do the job without pulling the
cams. Furthermore, I'm thinking that simply disassembling and
cleaning/flushing the lash adusters might correct the problem. Of course I
can imagine that the blockage might be somewhere between the oil supply and
the lash adjusters. In this case we would be talking about flushing whatever
oil passageway there is in the block.

I also asked him about a product called Rislone engine treatment. This is a
single quart of oil that has alot of detergents. It is added during oil
change or when oil low. Both my regular mechanic and guy next door suggest
using it - should help clear up any gumming problems. My regular mechanic
also suggested that I NOT do the flush treatment as it causes damage to the
engine while you are idling it for those 5 or so minutes with the flush. Not
enough lubrication while running I guess.

Finally, both these guys advise against doing anything drastic to correct the
problem if I can live with the noise. Was a time when all engines sounded
like this before the clever idea of using oil pressure to keep constant
pressure on the cam profile (aka hydraulic lifters). When we loose this
hydraulic pressure effect, we have a gap between the lowest point in the cam
profile and the pushrod, lifter, or whatever mechanism rides on the cam
profile. When the gap is taken up by the "rising" profile on the cam, there
is a slight impact giving this tick noise. I've been assured that there is no
damage as the parts are very robust. Hmmmmm.

I plan on doing:

1) the Rislone engine treatment.

...and if that doesn't work, I might:

2) opening the engine to hand clean/flush or replace the last adjusters and
clean the oil passages leading to the lash adjusters. This may be a bit
ambitious, but I think a good mechanic could do the replacement job in about
5 hours as per the info on my maint. records. I'll have to get the step by
step instructions from my mechanic (the guy is willing to download it for me
- - what a guy!) and look at a manual (Dave Trent has one and he doesn't mind
me mooching a look at it - what a guy!)

I'll keep you posted

Paul
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 22:37:45 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Taking out cats

>You have never had your own business, eh old poop.

Well, as a matter of fact, I did. I sold books over the Internet.
Sold the biz last year.

Wholesale is always
>3X cost of materials, labor and overhead. At retail it's 2X whole
>sale.

So, I'm talking 2X cost for retail.  Seems the same to me. No wholesale
involved.


You will never get the materials down to $10 and there is
>considerable amount of labor and hand work plus the amount you
>invested in the CNC machinery.

I'm not investing in CNC machinery. I'll job it out to a shop.

I doubt 500 copies would sell that fast <snip> Example,
>how many clutches sold in the group purchase??? Not a 100, just 11.

Still, if we made 25 sets, and sold them for $100 each, it would work, even
if we double the cost estimate.
Nobody would get wealthy, but nobody would lose, either.
>
>But where is the incentive for someone to go to all the effort, money
>makes the world go around. >Sorry for the dose of cold, humble reality.
>
Well....how about this?
If someone were to make all this stuff, and sell it to his buddies all over
the world at a reasonable but not ripoff profit, then the whole thing would
be a BUSINESS and one could write off all the expenses involved, such as
attending open track events, modifying one's VR4, and so on.  Hmm...

Rich/old poop
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 00:58:42 -0400
From: Ron Thompson <rtetetet@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Taking out cats

> Still, if we made 25 sets, and sold them for $100 each, it would work, even
> if we double the cost estimate.
> Nobody would get wealthy, but nobody would lose, either.

Set point Rich. Didn't want to shoot any idea or enthusiasm down, just
playing Devil's advocate on why we don't see more economical parts. As
I said, I'm "time poor", or I would have made a hood mold already.
Don't take my post as pessimism, just realism in the face of being
missed by the broad ax at the office today. Will Corporate America
ever cut the losers first?

> Well....how about this?
> If someone were to make all this stuff, and sell it to his buddies all over
> the world at a reasonable but not ripoff profit, then the whole thing would
> be a BUSINESS and one could write off all the expenses involved, such as
> attending open track events, modifying one's VR4, and so on.  Hmm...

Another good point. Any takers???
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:37:54 +0200
From: Roger Gerl <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Newbie Questions

> I hate to disagree with Roger the wizard, but I think 44 psi is the maximum
> pressure. It's what I run on open track events, and the tires are really
> stiff. On the street, you oughta go with 32/29. Unless, of course, you are
> running on the Autobahn at 160+ mph like Roger does.

Yes, you're absolutely right, these are my Autobahn settings :) IMHO, I'd always
runn a little more pressure and check the wear more often.

// Roger
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 01:52:06 -0400
From: Jason Barnhart <phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Drag Slicks question

  Are you sure you want a slick on a 17" rim?  If you went with the same total
circumfrence, then you won't get much of a wrinkle.  I would think that's why it's
difficult to find a slick on a large rim, it'd be desirable to have a higher profile
tire so it wrinkles alot, putting more of the tire's surface to the ground.  Perhaps an
auto crossing tire or a drag radial?

Jason

Aso8@aol.com wrote:

> Does anyone know who makes drag slicks in a 17 inch size?

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 18:29:28 +1000
From: Andrew Clark <chemist1@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Valve noise question

Well, as I have mentioned previously my 94 VR4 has been making a ticking
noise for the last few months & after an engine flush the ticking
returned after about 1500 miles.
It went into the shop yesterday & today they rang & told me that 21 of
the 24 lash adjusters were worn & the whole set are now going to be
replaced ( gotta love that extended warrantye ). In the end the ticking
was so loud I could hear it the cabin while I was cruising along even
with the stereo on.
Cheers
Andrew
Australia
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 01:43:31 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Newbie Q's - Common Probs

- -----Original Message-----From: Kevin Clark <Kevin.Clark@hnz.co.nz>
|This is a list of the more common problems with these cars:
|
|  1.  Cracked dash vents
|  2.  Peeling triangle windows next to door
|  3.  Driver's seatbelt failing to retract
|  4.  Hatch cover falling out of clamps
|  5.  Plastic residue filming on inside of windows
- -----------snip----------

1., 2., and 5.- are all the result of parking in the sun with the
windows tightly closed.  If the dash vents crack, you're pretty much
out of luck, but I believe the triangle windows will be replaced by
the dealer.  The residue film is caused by baking the plasticizers
out of the dash and upholstery.  Park in the shade, or facing North
or East in the sun, crack the windows a bit, use reflective
shields-- car interiors were not meant to sustain temps of 140+ for
extended periods.

Better hatch cover clamps are available from the dealer at
$1.95/pair.

The seatbelt retraction problem is usually due to the retractors
"gunking up", and can be fixed by cleaning the guides with a
pen-knife or blade.  Of course if you kink them up, the ironing
trick works too...

Forrest


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 04:09:56 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Newbie Q's - Tire pressure

- -----Original Message-----From: Rice-Burner Crusher
<stealth_es@hotmail.com>

|I own a 1993 Dodge Stealth ES, and today I was giving it a very
thorough
- -------------snip-----------
|3).  Tire pressure.  The car door says 32 front, 29 rear.. but the
tires say
|44 psi ..  What should I go with?


Lots of good and valid info has been offered, but the bottom line is
that what FEELS best for your tires, suspension, and driving
conditions should determine your correct tire pressure.  There is NO
right answer.  Like you, I have a non-turbo, which has a softer
suspension than the turbos... maybe at the sport setting on a turbo
a high inflation might feel a bit rough, but on mine, with 16"
wheels and 10" wide performance tires (and regularly running over
100mph) my car feels safest with these settings--  44 front, 38 rear
normally, 46 front, 40 rear for trips.  No, I don't run the Autobahn
at 160 with Roger (I wish...).  Yes, your tires will wear more
quickly.  But I didn't buy a sports car for economy--  I prefer to
sacrifice some tire life for more accurate handling.  Your
preference might be the opposite.  After trying 2psi increments from
36psi through 48 psi (fronts), my car handles and corners best with
these tires at a higher inflation, and that might be inappropriate
on the AWD turbos with their stiffer suspensions.  Also, at the
suggestion of a former list member who used to race a FWD Stealth,
you can neutralize understeer in corners with a 6psi difference from
front to back (instead of the standard 3psi - in effect forcing the
rear wheels to "drag" through a corner - I also use a -1 degree
camber on the front).  That setup makes for a very accurate
cornering dynamic at any speed.

Please note, BTW, that with my stock 15" wheels and original
Goodyears that came with the car, my best handling was at a much
lower 40F/35R, and I'd add a couple of psi for trips.  Each
wheel/tire combo will give different results...
Also note that if you live where it rains a lot, adding a few pounds
of pressure reduces the tire's "footprint" and cuts down on
hydroplaning.  If your racing in the wet, make that 6 to 10 psi!

We get lots of information here from the turbo owners, but much less
from those of us with NTs...  Why not do all of us a favor and do
your own tests and report back to us your experiences and the tires
you're running?  If I may suggest, start your tests at 36 front and
32 rear, and drive it that way for a day or two.  Then go up to
40/36, then 44/40, then 48/44 (just to see what it feels like).
Once you've chosen what feels best, then vary (only) the rear by
+2psi and then -2psi.  Sorry to disagree with guys who know more
than I do about tires--  I'm a driver and not a mechanic, so all I
know is when the car is set up right.  My guess is that you're going
to settle in around that 44psi marked on the tires.  Please let us
know...

Forrest <-- '94 Stealth, Nitto 450 Extreme Performance 225/55/R16




For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:20:19 -0400
From: "Michael D. Romano" <mdr-nhl@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Newbie Questions

> OK, I know there is a web page with a 15 minute fix to this problem.  It
> involves scraping some material off of the plastic cover which is dragging
> on the belt as it tries to retract.  I remember that it's dirt simple, I
> just can't remember the details or where it's posted.  Help?

Before taking anything apart or cutting any plastic, try taking a razor
blade and scraping the gunky stuff out of the shoulder loop that the belt
passes through. Mine seemed to hang up when retracting, and this fixed it
for me. I think Gavin suggested it at one time.

- -Mike
'93 Stealth ES w/91k

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:32:04 -0700
From: Nick Xiong <nxiong@juno.com>
Subject: Team3S: Gutting out cats vs. DP

Barry made a good point that there is no conclusive data on no pre-cats
vs. having precats.  I know most on this list recommend gutting them but
has anyone done before & after results???  what about the "seat of the
pants" feeling?

I too think the downpipes are OVERPRICED (probly why I don't have one).
But seeing that the RESTRICTION is not the downpipe itself but rather the
precats (right , guys?)  Does it make more sense to JUST gut the precats
& use the STOCK DP?

and as far as emissions, what have ya'all (w/gutted cats) experienced???

Also does gutting the precats move the powerband higher (loss of
backpressure & therefore loss of torgue but gained HP)??  or does it
result in more immmediate torgue because the turbos can now spool at will
w/o any restriction???  Somehow this topic never seems clear (to me).
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:54:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: rammer11@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Team3S: Bolt Size Engine Stand

I just bought a new engine stand from JEG'S. Does anyone know the size (pitch and diameter)of the
bolts that attach the tranny to the engine? Or does anyone have an engine mounted/ How did you mount
it? I would like to get my "spare" engine off of the floor.

RAM
92 R/T TT
Borla
K&N
Alamo Motorsports Down Pipe

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:00:43 -0700
From: Nick Xiong <nxiong@juno.com>
Subject: Team3S: VR4 owner blacklisted by mitsu!!!

Hi guys I forwarding this from turbodrvn@aol.com, anyone w/any advice
contact him

>  Basically, after months of fighting different Mitsubishi dealerships
and > explaining to them that my transmission was failing; I had finally
found
one > that would replace my transmission within my 12month/12,000 mile
warranty (
> from last July of 1998 when I had a new transmission put in).
Everything
was > set and had an appointment to install a new transmission yesterday
under
> warranty.  Well after I dropped my car, the service manager had called
me
> back and stated that, "Your car has been altered by an after-market
boost
> controller; that voids and Nulls any warranty you have on your VR4.  I
did
> not know that about your car when you came to us last week".   This
Service
> manager stated to me that he even documented my vin# in Mitsubishi's
system
> that my car was "altered & modified".  Meaning that no other Mitsubishi

> dealership would honor any warranty transmission.  In other words, he
"black > balled"  (service manager's own words) me! 

>  I don't understand?!; There are several Mitsubishi dealers and other
> manufacturer's (such as Toyota) that allow their customers warranty
work
even > with their modifications.  But this guy just tried to act
conservative with
> me!  I truly thought of removing my boost controller and boost gauge
before
I > dropped the car; but when I took the car in last week and explained
my
> problem with the transmission, they had originally approved it and made
an
> appointment for me!?  But after my whole day of planning (taking time
off
> from work) and making arrangements to drop my VR4 off for the warranty
> transmission that I was entitled to; they DENIED me of my right to my
> warranty transmission. 
>  Anyway, I have spoken to several other VR4 owners and they stated to
find > this Letter from GReddy that states that the GReddy Profec B
conforms to
> manufacturer's standards; and that will help my case.  All I want is
what I
> am entitled to:  the new transmission under my warranty.  I was DENIED
that! 
> I even tried to explain that I had just recently installed that boost
> controller but had transmission problems way before I installed the
> modification.


___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 07:07:20 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Gutting out cats vs. DP

I think the stock downpipe is horribly restrictive and probably a bigger
issue that the pre-cats.

The rear turbo dumps into the downpipe at a 90 degree angle to the main
downpipe for starters.  Also there is a significant difference in the
distance exhaust travels from the front turbo versus the rear.  The inside
diameter of the stock DP also appears to be poorly matched to the rest of
the exhaust system.

That being said, I kind of doubt there would be a noticable difference
between a stock DP and a decent aftermarket DP on a stock car.  I suspect
that any tangible differences would only be found once other flow
improvements or demands had been made, like bigger turbos etc.

Riger's dyno tests seemed to indicate that the stock vs aftermarket DP
didn't make much difference.  However I am somewhat suspect of those dyno
runs given that the car may not have been 100% up to snuff at the time.
Even if the dyno runs are representative, it is possible that the
aftermarket bits move the power around to a more performance oriented
location in the curve without actually making significantly more power.
That would also be an improvement.

When I installed my DP I also installed a cat back exhaust and air filter at
the same time so I can't really speak to the effectiveness of just the DP
alone.  I definitely noticed a difference as measured against a friend's
Ferrari F355 and a local supposedly stock Supra TT.  There was better
acceleration that could be felt in every gear and a few more MPH up top.
Stock for stock against the F355, whoever got the best start typically won
stop light drags.  The F355 ran away on the highway.  After my basic
upgrades I could pretty much beat the F355 at will below 120 MPH.  At 140
MPH the F355 simply walked away -- a Spyder no less even with the top down.
This is with 15 PSI of boost which I had also been running when everything
else was bone stock.  I was always able to outrun this particular Supra but
after the mods the difference was more apparent.  I don't know exactly how
much that helps but there was a difference.

Again, since noone, especially not even the manufacturers of these products,
can provide conslusive data, it remains theoretical.  I believe the DP is
worth it when additional mods are in place.


Barry

> -----Original Message-----
>
> Barry made a good point that there is no conclusive data on no pre-cats
> vs. having precats.  I know most on this list recommend gutting them but
> has anyone done before & after results???  what about the "seat of the
> pants" feeling?
>
> I too think the downpipes are OVERPRICED (probly why I don't have one).
> But seeing that the RESTRICTION is not the downpipe itself but rather the
> precats (right , guys?)  Does it make more sense to JUST gut the precats
> & use the STOCK DP?
>
> and as far as emissions, what have ya'all (w/gutted cats) experienced???
>
> Also does gutting the precats move the powerband higher (loss of
> backpressure & therefore loss of torgue but gained HP)??  or does it
> result in more immmediate torgue because the turbos can now spool at will
> w/o any restriction???  Somehow this topic never seems clear (to me).

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:53:12 -0500
From: Wayne <wala@hypertech-inc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Bolt Size Engine Stand

12mm X 1.75


At 08:54 AM 5/12/99 , you wrote:
>Does anyone know the size
>(pitch and diameter)of the
>bolts that attach the tranny to the engine?


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:04:13 -0700
From: Yoss <yoss@aracnet.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Gutting out cats vs. DP

On May 12, Nick Xiong said:
> Also does gutting the precats move the powerband higher (loss of
> backpressure & therefore loss of torgue but gained HP)??  or does it
> result in more immmediate torgue because the turbos can now spool at will
> w/o any restriction???  Somehow this topic never seems clear (to me).

I believe the issue of backpressure is moot for turbos.  The more the pressure
differential between the input and output side of the turbos, the faster spool
up time and better performance.  Am I right?

I would like to know which of the following options provides the better
cost/hp ratio: gutting pre-cats vs. less restrictive aftermarket catback
exhaust system.

Thanks!
- -sankar

- --
*******************************************************************************
Riker: "The point is that I didn't get the chance."
Ro: "'The point is', with all due respect, Commander, you are trying to turn me
  into your idea of the model officer."
- --Riker and Ro, "Conundrum", Stardate 45494.2
*******************************************************************************
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:18:46 -0700
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Gutting out cats vs. DP

Sankar...

Not sure you mean "moot" (insignificant). The backpressure issue IS
significant, particularly with larger turbos, more boost, etc. The ideal
would be to have NO exhaust system, thus eliminating backpressure. The
result is less torque at the bottom end, more hp at the top end. It's a
choice. You can't have both (unless you add nitrous for the bottom end).

Now, for cost vs gain, gutting all three cats is inexpensive if it's your
time and energy. The gain is significant, again, particularly if you're
running higher than stock boost. The catback system is mostly for sound and
weight reduction. The restrictions in the system are at the front end (all
three cats and the downpipe) although I can argue that ANY reduction in
diameter on a 3" system is less than ideal (so are bends, but it would be
VERY difficult to run straight pipes on our cars).

Looking forward...Chris

1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/blown turbo seal mod)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Yoss [mailto:yoss@aracnet.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 8:04 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Gutting out cats vs. DP


On May 12, Nick Xiong said:
> Also does gutting the precats move the powerband higher (loss of
> backpressure & therefore loss of torgue but gained HP)??  or does it
> result in more immmediate torgue because the turbos can now spool at will
> w/o any restriction???  Somehow this topic never seems clear (to me).

I believe the issue of backpressure is moot for turbos.  The more the
pressure
differential between the input and output side of the turbos, the faster
spool
up time and better performance.  Am I right?

I would like to know which of the following options provides the better
cost/hp ratio: gutting pre-cats vs. less restrictive aftermarket catback
exhaust system.

Thanks!
- -sankar
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:35:17 -0500
From: S J Cowan <sjc0u812@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Newbie Questions

Ron:

>4. This will sound strange; the belt is too limp. Pull it all the way
>out and iron it, yes iron it with some starch at the Nylon setting on
>the iron so you don't melt it. It is so limp that it folds and and
>wrinkles so it binds and won't retract. The other way is to remove
>the
>inner trim panels and increase the sprig tension on the retractor is
>it pulls harder, but it will pull harder on you when you drive.

Or you can do like me, go in and b*tch, and they replaced mine free under
Mitsu warranty.  (I'm assuming your car is under 100K miles.)

Best regards,

SJ
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:06:09 -0700
From: "Terry Swift" <tlswift@hotbot.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: VR4 owner blacklisted by mitsu!!!

Doesn't surprise me one single bit.  They (Mitsu) will do anything from having to honor an agreement they put in place themselves.  They have proven that over and over again especially with the 3si.

My advice is to have the guy take all his documentation on when he first started having problems with the tranny (hopefully he visited a dealership and got some type of documents) and the receipt for the boost controller and show them that it happened prior.  Then get on the horn / fax to Mitsu Corp. both here in the USA and Japan and lay it all out and DEMAND they stand up to THEIR warranty.  If that doesn't work, then the BBB and other Consumer Agencies.  Another resort is to get ahold of the local TV stations that do Consumer Action type items and have them do a report on it (that is if it's up and up).  Alot of publicity like this in the news will usually get some action - especially when it looks bad for the Dealerships / Manufacturer.
- --

On Wed, 12 May 1999 10:00:43   Nick Xiong wrote:
>Hi guys I forwarding this from turbodrvn@aol.com, anyone w/any advice
>contact him
>
>>  Basically, after months of fighting different Mitsubishi dealerships
>and > explaining to them that my transmission was failing; I had finally
>found
>one > that would replace my transmission within my 12month/12,000 mile
>warranty (
>> from last July of 1998 when I had a new transmission put in).
>Everything
>was > set and had an appointment to install a new transmission yesterday
>under
>> warranty.  Well after I dropped my car, the service manager had called
>me
>> back and stated that, "Your car has been altered by an after-market
>boost
>> controller; that voids and Nulls any warranty you have on your VR4.  I
>did
>> not know that about your car when you came to us last week".   This
>Service
>> manager stated to me that he even documented my vin# in Mitsubishi's
>system
>> that my car was "altered & modified".  Meaning that no other Mitsubishi
>
>> dealership would honor any warranty transmission.  In other words, he
>"black > balled"  (service manager's own words) me! 
>> 
>>  I don't understand?!; There are several Mitsubishi dealers and other
>> manufacturer's (such as Toyota) that allow their customers warranty
>work
>even > with their modifications.  But this guy just tried to act
>conservative with
>> me!  I truly thought of removing my boost controller and boost gauge
>before
>I > dropped the car; but when I took the car in last week and explained
>my
>> problem with the transmission, they had originally approved it and made
>an
>> appointment for me!?  But after my whole day of planning (taking time
>off
>> from work) and making arrangements to drop my VR4 off for the warranty
>> transmission that I was entitled to; they DENIED me of my right to my
>> warranty transmission. 
>>  Anyway, I have spoken to several other VR4 owners and they stated to
>find > this Letter from GReddy that states that the GReddy Profec B
>conforms to
>> manufacturer's standards; and that will help my case.  All I want is
>what I
>> am entitled to:  the new transmission under my warranty.  I was DENIED
>that! 
>> I even tried to explain that I had just recently installed that boost
>> controller but had transmission problems way before I installed the
>> modification.
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>


HotBot - Search smarter.
http://www.hotbot.com
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:17:28 -0700
From: "Terry Swift" <tlswift@hotbot.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Newbie Q's - Common Probs

See comments below
- --

On Wed, 12 May 1999 01:43:31   Bob Forrest wrote:
>-----Original Message-----From: Kevin Clark <Kevin.Clark@hnz.co.nz>
>|This is a list of the more common problems with these cars:
>|
>|  1.  Cracked dash vents
>|  2.  Peeling triangle windows next to door
>|  3.  Driver's seatbelt failing to retract
>|  4.  Hatch cover falling out of clamps
>|  5.  Plastic residue filming on inside of windows
>-----------snip----------
>
>1., 2., and 5.- are all the result of parking in the sun with the
>windows tightly closed.  If the dash vents crack, you're pretty much
>out of luck, but I believe the triangle windows will be replaced by
>the dealer.  The residue film is caused by baking the plasticizers
>out of the dash and upholstery.  Park in the shade, or facing North
>or East in the sun, crack the windows a bit, use reflective
>shields-- car interiors were not meant to sustain temps of 140+ for
>extended periods.

Best thing for cleaning windows I've found that has the film build-up is called "Glass Wax" found at Ace Hardware in the Home Cleaning Supplies area.  It's almost like waxing your windows - does good job and lasts longer than Windex.  Also doesn't leave the streaks like other window cleaners.

I don't see how the vents break the way they do.  Mine are broken in like 2 locations on each vent.  I'd say another poor design/build.

>
>Better hatch cover clamps are available from the dealer at
>$1.95/pair.
>
>The seatbelt retraction problem is usually due to the retractors
>"gunking up", and can be fixed by cleaning the guides with a
>pen-knife or blade.  Of course if you kink them up, the ironing
>trick works too...
>
>Forrest
>
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>


HotBot - Search smarter.
http://www.hotbot.com
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 13:40:37 -0700
From: Jeff Schwartz <jeff.schwartz@citicorp.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Gutting out cats

Does anyone know if you gut the pre-cats, will we still pass
New York State instpection?

Thanks,

- --
Jeff Schwartz
1995 Panama Green Pearl VR4
Borla, K&N FIPK, Magnecors
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:49:34 -0700
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Team3S: Gutting out cats

Just a short note on gutting your cats (precats, main cat) ....Dyno tests in Europe
indicate that gutting your cats have a marginal, if any, effect upon 3S TT's which are
running over 400hp with stock exhaust systems. These vehicles are equipped with only a
BC and K&N. If you want to increase your HP over and above this, then larger injectors
and turbos are the next step, after which you may wish to consider an exhaust system
upgrade to compliment the new mods. However, gutting cats on an essentially stock
vehicle (stock turbos, stock injectors) is foolish and will likely net you more problems
than you want (Immissions Inspections) ofr marginal to negliable top end performance,
and poorer bottom end.  The same holds true for the cat back system...for performance
your bucks are better spent elsewhere. Unless you're going to go wild and hairy with
fuel and turbos, leave the cats alone. Replacing them after the fact can be veeeery
expensive.

Best

Darc

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:02:13 -0700
From: Yoss <yoss@aracnet.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Gutting out cats

On May 12, wce@bc.sympatico.ca said:
> Just a short note on gutting your cats (precats, main cat) ....Dyno tests in
> Europe indicate that gutting your cats have a marginal, if any, effect upon
> 3S TT's which are running over 400hp with stock exhaust systems.

Hm..an 80hp increase with just an open-air filter and a boost controller?
This sounds too good to be true.  If this were indeed true, then I know what
my next mod is gonna be, 'cuz I already have a K&N filter in an otherwise
stock (performance-wise) car.

- -sankar
'97 VR4
Mods: K&N FIPK, RS*R downsprings, SS brake lines, Porterfield Rotors and R4S
brake pads in front, SpeedBleeder, weatherstrip airflow mod, Michelin Pilot
XGT Z4 tires.

- --
*******************************************************************************
Welcome to the bridge, Mr. LaForge.
    -- Picard, "Contagion", stardate 42609.1
*******************************************************************************
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

End of Team3S Digest V1 #176
****************************

For unsubscribe info and FAQ, see our web page at http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm