--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #171
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest          Wednesday, May 5 1999          Volume 01 : Number 171




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 22:49:18 -0400
From: "Michael Dorsey" <mdorsey@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Syntec -Vs- Mobil 1    Oil pressure issue

Just flushed it last Saturday.  If anything, the pressure seems to have
dropped.  I'm having a tough time finding Mobil 1 here.  Seems most places
don't stock it, and those that say they do never have it on the shelf, or
much space to put it.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> [mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of
> wce@bc.sympatico.ca
> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 7:43 PM
> To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Syntec -Vs- Mobil 1 Oil pressure issue
>
>
> Team;
>
> The low pressure "may"  be eleviated with a flush to clean
> out the ole system. My guess is
> it needs the gunk and cooked oil cleaned out from high temps
> ......then go with Mobil 1
> 10-30. Back in my muscle car youth (another ole poop- -who
> here isn't)  I swore by
> Castrol, but I am a firm advocate of Mobil 1 now and will
> stay so,  unless something
> better comes along. Life is not static.
>
> Best
>
> Darc
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 22:10:43 -0700
From: "Terry Swift" <tlswift@hotbot.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Syntec -Vs- Mobil 1    Oil pressure issue

So what does everyone use to "flush" their system with.  Many different things out there to do it with.
- --

On Tue, 4 May 1999 22:49:18    Michael Dorsey wrote:
>Just flushed it last Saturday.  If anything, the pressure seems to have
>dropped.  I'm having a tough time finding Mobil 1 here.  Seems most places
>don't stock it, and those that say they do never have it on the shelf, or
>much space to put it.
>
>Michael
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>> [mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of
>> wce@bc.sympatico.ca
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 7:43 PM
>> To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>> Subject: Re: Team3S: Syntec -Vs- Mobil 1 Oil pressure issue
>>
>>
>> Team;
>>
>> The low pressure "may"  be eleviated with a flush to clean
>> out the ole system. My guess is
>> it needs the gunk and cooked oil cleaned out from high temps
>> ......then go with Mobil 1
>> 10-30. Back in my muscle car youth (another ole poop- -who
>> here isn't)  I swore by
>> Castrol, but I am a firm advocate of Mobil 1 now and will
>> stay so,  unless something
>> better comes along. Life is not static.
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Darc
>>
>> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>>
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 08:56:47 -0700
From: Jeff Schwartz <jeff.schwartz@citicorp.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Gas mileage Question

Same here.  I drive about 21 miles each way to work and drive fairly
moderate with a few 100MPH things now and then.  I usually stay in
sixth gear unless I need the power.  I've been averaging 19.5 MPG.
Took a trip to Pennsylvania doing around 80MPH and got 22MPG (also
all time high).  I can't see how it's possible to get 32MPG!
- --
Jeff Schwartz
1995 Panama Green Pearl VR4
Borla, K&N FIPK, Magnecors

Chris Winkley wrote:
>
> Andrew...
>
> I think either your speedo is wildly inaccurate, or your calculations. I
> keep pretty careful track of my mileage. Before I changed my turbos and
> injectors I consistently got between 12 and 14 mpg in the city (with a fair
> amount of WOT). On the highway, with speeds of up to 140+ mph, I get around
> 17 or 18 mpg. On a trip to the Bay area this January, I actually used the
> cruise control at 85 mph in sixth gear and checked my mileage after a half
> tank of gas. It was 22 mpg, an all time high. I doubt that it's possible to
> get 32 mpg out of a VR4, under any speed, on flat terrain.
>
> Check for loose mechanical connections, and/or check your math.
>
> BTW...could you give me the complete size of the tires (275/xx-18 or
> 275/xx-17) on your VR4? What brand? Any clearance problems?
>
> Looking forward...Chris
>
> 1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/blown turbo seal mod)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Brilliant [mailto:andrewb@infowest.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 1:36 PM
> To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: Team3S: Gas mileage Question
>
> Some weird things my VR-4 does I wonder if anyone elses does
>
> Prime gas mileage speed seems to be aroun 92 mph
>
> I got 32 mpg going from St. George, to Salt Lake city, at 92 mph cruise
> control
>
> Around the city if I am on the gas I can burn a 1/4 of a tank just from
> going to to work
> and back, and lunch prboably around 24 miles
>
> Is this normal
>
> When going very fast.  Full throttle continuously.  I can burn a 1/8 tank in
> 5 or 6
> miles  So at 160 mph I eat up fuel at 2 mpg?  That is nuts anyone else with
> this problem
> or si the Fuel gauge kind of inacurate
>
> Only mod I have is a bleeder valve, and cut up air box 275 mm tires rear.
> 38psi Front
> and 32 Rear
>
> --
> Andrew M. Brilliant
> Webmaster
> IS Department
> Global Web Direct (OTC BB: GLCO)
> 801-852-4961
> 1-800-500-1847 ext: 2961
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 10:53:31 -0400
From: "Michael D. Romano" <mdr-nhl@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Gas mileage Question

This is a result of an inaccurate guage/sensor.
Think about it...if anything you would burn less gas as the tank contents
decreased due to the weight decrease. Also, while parked on a slant, the gas
warning light will turn on if the tank is low enough, then go back off again
once moving on level ground. I've seen it blink when braking hard with a low
tank too.

Cars don't get less fuel efficient with less gas in their tank...they get
more fuel efficient.
BTW, I agree the cars (or at least mine) feel the best at 70-90mph. :)
- -Mike
'93 Stealth ES


> This is teh EXACT SAME BHAVIOR
>
> can't be coincidence

(snip)

> > general drive from 75-to-85 mph average  and sometimes the
> first quarter tank
> > lasts for 150 miles and sometimes it lasts only 70 to 80 miles.
>  usually the
> > last 3 quarter tank increments go down each step too.      1st 150 miles
> > 2cnd 80miles  3rd 60miles  and then about 45 miles.
> >   I have also noticed my car runs best at 90 to 100 miles per
> hour. It runs
> > smoothest, reacts and turns the best.  And seems to get better
> gas mileage??
> > maybee it just seems that way.  I think the  guage is
> inacurate......my car
> > has been close to empty before and the light would go on and go off
> > constantly.

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 08:01:06 -0700
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject: Team3S: Apologies...

Howdy folks...

It's been brought to my attention that my question about race gas prices was
off topic and non-technical in nature. I agree. I should've requested that
replies be sent to me privately.

Sorry about that.

If anyone else has data for me, please send it privately to
"cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com".

Let's keep our list clean and noise free!!!

Thanks.

Looking forward...Chris
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 12:10:19 -0400
From: "Michael Dorsey" <mdorsey@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Syntec -Vs- Mobil 1    Oil pressure issue

Pep boys had gunk or STP.  Gunk required a cold engine, where STP didn't.
Being the impatient person I am, I opted for STP.  It said to let it run for
5-20 minutes at 1500 RPM.  I ran it for 7 minutes at 1500, and 10 minutes at
1000.  Can't say I've noticed much of a difference, but I've run synthetic
oil for the last 10k, and the car only has 28k total, so it probably wasn't
too bad to start off with.

Michael


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> [mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Terry Swift
> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 1:11 AM
> To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Syntec -Vs- Mobil 1 Oil pressure issue
>
>
> So what does everyone use to "flush" their system with.  Many
> different things out there to do it with.
> --
>
> On Tue, 4 May 1999 22:49:18    Michael Dorsey wrote:
> >Just flushed it last Saturday.  If anything, the pressure
> seems to have
> >dropped.  I'm having a tough time finding Mobil 1 here.
> Seems most places
> >don't stock it, and those that say they do never have it on
> the shelf, or
> >much space to put it.
> >
> >Michael
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> >> [mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of
> >> wce@bc.sympatico.ca
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 7:43 PM
> >> To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> >> Subject: Re: Team3S: Syntec -Vs- Mobil 1 Oil pressure issue
> >>
> >>
> >> Team;
> >>
> >> The low pressure "may"  be eleviated with a flush to clean
> >> out the ole system. My guess is
> >> it needs the gunk and cooked oil cleaned out from high temps
> >> ......then go with Mobil 1
> >> 10-30. Back in my muscle car youth (another ole poop- -who
> >> here isn't)  I swore by
> >> Castrol, but I am a firm advocate of Mobil 1 now and will
> >> stay so,  unless something
> >> better comes along. Life is not static.
> >>
> >> Best
> >>
> >> Darc
> >>
> >> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> >> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
> >>
> >
> >For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>


HotBot - Search smarter.
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 09:50:37 -0700
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Team3S: Syntec -Vs- Mobil 1    Oil pressure issue

Hrmm...well that rules out dirt/baked oil/clogging  as a cause. The gauge or sending
unit may not be functioning properly as posted earlier, or less likely, an oil pump
problem. The gauges in our cars could be better quality that's for certain, particularly
given the sticker price of the vehicles.  The ticking/lifter noise is another issue; a
given with these vehicles at some point or another it seems. Did the flush help with
this, or have you experienced it? Whether or not this  noise is indicative of valve
train replacement or not, I'll leave to the rebuild experts in the group to kick around.

Best

Darc

Michael Dorsey wrote:

> Pep boys had gunk or STP.  Gunk required a cold engine, where STP didn't.
> Being the impatient person I am, I opted for STP.  It said to let it run for
> 5-20 minutes at 1500 RPM.  I ran it for 7 minutes at 1500, and 10 minutes at
> 1000.  Can't say I've noticed much of a difference, but I've run synthetic
> oil for the last 10k, and the car only has 28k total, so it probably wasn't
> too bad to start off with.
>
> Michael
>



For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 12:31:20 -0500
From: "Brad Younkman" <stealth@digitalexp.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: ** Getrag Info **

- ----- Original Message -----
From: CEnder (Chris Chiasson) <cender@email.msn.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: ** Getrag Info **


> maybe this guy could build us a better tranny that fit stock specs, but
that
> wouldn't break as much --- special metals.... titanium/carbon fiber... etc
>
Are these parts everyone is talking about something i could have a relative
(my brothers father-in-law) that owns a machine shop make using a specific
metal or something stronger than what is used now? If somebody could e-mail
me privately or something and explain what these parts look like and what
type of metal you recommend, I'll call and ask if this is possible with a
reasonable price.

Brad #078
91 Dodge Stealth RT TT

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 13:50:07 -0400
From: Kevin Schappell <kevin@pacarsearch.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ** Getrag Info **

I have been following this thread for a while and I can not help be a
little scared that my tranny will fly apart anytime soon.  I think with
this many people on the list we could band together and make our own parts.
 I work in an aluminum foundry with a pretty good machine shop doing all
the CNC programming and engineering.  If we could get a group of people
together, define the problems with the tranny's and then get the parts made
we could possibly solve the problems.  The syncro's seem to be the main
problem, and from what I have seen most syncro's (sp?) are made of
brass/bronze/some powdered metal.  If anyone has the background or the
drive to work on a project like this speak up and let's do it.

Kevin Schappell
Auto Answers
http://www.pacarsearch.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Brad Younkman [SMTP:stealth@digitalexp.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 1:31 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: ** Getrag Info **

 Are these parts everyone is talking about something i could have a
relative
(my brothers father-in-law) that owns a machine shop make using a specific
metal or something stronger than what is used now? If somebody could e-mail
me privately or something and explain what these parts look like and what
type of metal you recommend, I'll call and ask if this is possible with a
reasonable price.

Brad #078
91 Dodge Stealth RT TT

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 14:40:12 -0700
From: "Dave Allison" <dallison@siebel.com>
Subject: Team3S: UPRD classifieds

Remember that 550HP VR-4 I saw at UPRD in Huntington Beach? Well, guess
what?... it's for sale!

I'm shocked they didn't include all the mods performed on this vehicle. It's
a lot of custom work. I was able to go for a spin in the thing. It keeps
pulling even in 4th gear!

http://www.uprd.com/Classfieds/classfieds.html


Seeya!

Dave Allison

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 16:06:45 -0700
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Team3S: ** Getrag Info **

Kevin;

The brains are certainly gathered here and the talent...it's just a little different to
do on-line brain storming with the time lags involved, other topics interspersed,  lack
of being a physical room to examine material, etc. It makes it difficult...but not
impossible.

Jack certainly is knowledgeable about the synchros, as he manged a "one time only" order
of some, and perhaps could input if someone really grabs the bull by the horns and
organizes a "real" brainstorming situation. Paul was doing some serious investigative
work on this not long ago and maybe can post the results again and aftermarket sources
he found...I believe there were 2 different outlets for splines. One, which Jack posted,
was reported to have superhardened metal, so might be the better of the two. Again, if
we have all of the information, material, and people in one room, a solution/new
fabrication would not likely be that hard to achieve.This topic may be a good thing to
have a gathering for, instead of meeing to polish cars and shake hands. How about making
(at least) one topic like this the theme of each gathering from this point on. That way,
maybe some serious solutions will arise to: brakes, getrag, valve train, etc, etc. With
the likes of Barry, Jack, Brad, Todd, Rich, Bob, Ken...the list is endless...in one
gathering with a sharp focus (with a warehouse like Forrest's old place, endless
beer)...and there ain't nothing I don't think we cann't do or solve. Treat it as a
classroom: bring pictures, hardware, and examples of the problem/parts to be improved
upon. We have the brains and all the willing help of the next generation who are herein
offering services. Next thing...time and place appropriate for all (holiday city). Who'd
want to miss it.

Darc

Kevin Schappell wrote:

> I have been following this thread for a while and I can not help be a
> little scared that my tranny will fly apart anytime soon.  I think with
> this many people on the list we could band together and make our own parts.
>  I work in an aluminum foundry with a pretty good machine shop doing all
> the CNC programming and engineering.  If we could get a group of people
> together, define the problems with the tranny's and then get the parts made
> we could possibly solve the problems.  The syncro's seem to be the main
> problem, and from what I have seen most syncro's (sp?) are made of
> brass/bronze/some powdered metal.  If anyone has the background or the
> drive to work on a project like this speak up and let's do it.
>
> Kevin Schappell



For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 19:06:34 -0400
From: Joshua <joshua@princelaw.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ** Getrag Info ** Auto Tranmission?

Anyone find anything out about the Automatic transmission in some vr-4s and
TTs? Thanks

-----Original Message-----
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca [mailto:wce@bc.sympatico.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 7:07 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: ** Getrag Info **

Kevin;

The brains are certainly gathered here and the talent...it's
just a little different to
do on-line brain storming with the time lags involved, other
topics interspersed,  lack
of being a physical room to examine material, etc. It makes
it difficult...but not
impossible.

Jack certainly is knowledgeable about the synchros, as he
manged a "one time only" order
of some, and perhaps could input if someone really grabs the
bull by the horns and
organizes a "real" brainstorming situation. Paul was doing
some serious investigative
work on this not long ago and maybe can post the results
again and aftermarket sources
he found...I believe there were 2 different outlets for
splines. One, which Jack posted,
was reported to have superhardened metal, so might be the
better of the two. Again, if
we have all of the information, material, and people in one
room, a solution/new
fabrication would not likely be that hard to achieve.This
topic may be a good thing to
have a gathering for, instead of meeing to polish cars and
shake hands. How about making
(at least) one topic like this the theme of each gathering
from this point on. That way,
maybe some serious solutions will arise to: brakes, getrag,
valve train, etc, etc. With
the likes of Barry, Jack, Brad, Todd, Rich, Bob, Ken...the
list is endless...in one
gathering with a sharp focus (with a warehouse like
Forrest's old place, endless
beer)...and there ain't nothing I don't think we cann't do
or solve. Treat it as a
classroom: bring pictures, hardware, and examples of the
problem/parts to be improved
upon. We have the brains and all the willing help of the
next generation who are herein
offering services. Next thing...time and place appropriate
for all (holiday city). Who'd
want to miss it.

Darc

Kevin Schappell wrote:

> I have been following this thread for a while and I can
not help be a
> little scared that my tranny will fly apart anytime soon.
I think with
> this many people on the list we could band together and
make our own parts.
>  I work in an aluminum foundry with a pretty good machine
shop doing all
> the CNC programming and engineering.  If we could get a
group of people
> together, define the problems with the tranny's and then
get the parts made
> we could possibly solve the problems.  The syncro's seem
to be the main
> problem, and from what I have seen most syncro's (sp?) are
made of
> brass/bronze/some powdered metal.  If anyone has the
background or the
> drive to work on a project like this speak up and let's do
it.
>
> Kevin Schappell



For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 16:21:34 PDT
From: "Michael Reiss" <michael_reiss@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ** Getrag Info ** Auto Tranmission?

As much of a POS the manual is to many owners...I'd rather have 3 gears I
could control rather than an automatic.
Sorry...my old school mentality...sports cars=manual tranny

>
>Anyone find anything out about the Automatic transmission in some vr-4s and
>TTs? Thanks
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca [mailto:wce@bc.sympatico.ca]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 7:07 PM
> To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: Re: Team3S: ** Getrag Info **
>
> Kevin;
>
> The brains are certainly gathered here and the talent...it's
>just a little different to
> do on-line brain storming with the time lags involved, other
>topics interspersed,  lack
> of being a physical room to examine material, etc. It makes
>it difficult...but not
> impossible.
>
> Jack certainly is knowledgeable about the synchros, as he
>manged a "one time only" order
> of some, and perhaps could input if someone really grabs the
>bull by the horns and
> organizes a "real" brainstorming situation. Paul was doing
>some serious investigative
> work on this not long ago and maybe can post the results
>again and aftermarket sources
> he found...I believe there were 2 different outlets for
>splines. One, which Jack posted,
> was reported to have superhardened metal, so might be the
>better of the two. Again, if
> we have all of the information, material, and people in one
>room, a solution/new
> fabrication would not likely be that hard to achieve.This
>topic may be a good thing to
> have a gathering for, instead of meeing to polish cars and
>shake hands. How about making
> (at least) one topic like this the theme of each gathering
>from this point on. That way,
> maybe some serious solutions will arise to: brakes, getrag,
>valve train, etc, etc. With
> the likes of Barry, Jack, Brad, Todd, Rich, Bob, Ken...the
>list is endless...in one
> gathering with a sharp focus (with a warehouse like
>Forrest's old place, endless
> beer)...and there ain't nothing I don't think we cann't do
>or solve. Treat it as a
> classroom: bring pictures, hardware, and examples of the
>problem/parts to be improved
> upon. We have the brains and all the willing help of the
>next generation who are herein
> offering services. Next thing...time and place appropriate
>for all (holiday city). Who'd
> want to miss it.
>
> Darc
>
> Kevin Schappell wrote:
>
> > I have been following this thread for a while and I can
>not help be a
> > little scared that my tranny will fly apart anytime soon.
>I think with
> > this many people on the list we could band together and
>make our own parts.
> >  I work in an aluminum foundry with a pretty good machine
>shop doing all
> > the CNC programming and engineering.  If we could get a
>group of people
> > together, define the problems with the tranny's and then
>get the parts made
> > we could possibly solve the problems.  The syncro's seem
>to be the main
> > problem, and from what I have seen most syncro's (sp?) are
>made of
> > brass/bronze/some powdered metal.  If anyone has the
>background or the
> > drive to work on a project like this speak up and let's do
>it.
> >
> > Kevin Schappell
>
>
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>


_______________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 19:37:11 -0400
From: Joshua <joshua@princelaw.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ** Getrag Info ** Auto Tranmission?

Yeah but Automatic can produce consistent times, that's why racers use them
and Nitrous works better with them!!!!!

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Reiss [mailto:michael_reiss@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 7:22 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: ** Getrag Info ** Auto
Tranmission?


As much of a POS the manual is to many owners...I'd rather
have 3 gears I
could control rather than an automatic.
Sorry...my old school mentality...sports cars=manual tranny

>
>Anyone find anything out about the Automatic transmission
in some vr-4s and
>TTs? Thanks
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
[mailto:wce@bc.sympatico.ca]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 7:07 PM
> To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: Re: Team3S: ** Getrag Info
**
>
> Kevin;
>
> The brains are certainly gathered here and
the talent...it's
>just a little different to
> do on-line brain storming with the time lags
involved, other
>topics interspersed,  lack
> of being a physical room to examine
material, etc. It makes
>it difficult...but not
> impossible.
>
> Jack certainly is knowledgeable about the
synchros, as he
>manged a "one time only" order
> of some, and perhaps could input if someone
really grabs the
>bull by the horns and
> organizes a "real" brainstorming situation.
Paul was doing
>some serious investigative
> work on this not long ago and maybe can post
the results
>again and aftermarket sources
> he found...I believe there were 2 different
outlets for
>splines. One, which Jack posted,
> was reported to have superhardened metal, so
might be the
>better of the two. Again, if
> we have all of the information, material,
and people in one
>room, a solution/new
> fabrication would not likely be that hard to
achieve.This
>topic may be a good thing to
> have a gathering for, instead of meeing to
polish cars and
>shake hands. How about making
> (at least) one topic like this the theme of
each gathering
>from this point on. That way,
> maybe some serious solutions will arise to:
brakes, getrag,
>valve train, etc, etc. With
> the likes of Barry, Jack, Brad, Todd, Rich,
Bob, Ken...the
>list is endless...in one
> gathering with a sharp focus (with a
warehouse like
>Forrest's old place, endless
> beer)...and there ain't nothing I don't
think we cann't do
>or solve. Treat it as a
> classroom: bring pictures, hardware, and
examples of the
>problem/parts to be improved
> upon. We have the brains and all the willing
help of the
>next generation who are herein
> offering services. Next thing...time and
place appropriate
>for all (holiday city). Who'd
> want to miss it.
>
> Darc
>
> Kevin Schappell wrote:
>
> > I have been following this thread for a
while and I can
>not help be a
> > little scared that my tranny will fly
apart anytime soon.
>I think with
> > this many people on the list we could band
together and
>make our own parts.
> >  I work in an aluminum foundry with a
pretty good machine
>shop doing all
> > the CNC programming and engineering.  If
we could get a
>group of people
> > together, define the problems with the
tranny's and then
>get the parts made
> > we could possibly solve the problems.  The
syncro's seem
>to be the main
> > problem, and from what I have seen most
syncro's (sp?) are
>made of
> > brass/bronze/some powdered metal.  If
anyone has the
>background or the
> > drive to work on a project like this speak
up and let's do
>it.
> >
> > Kevin Schappell
>
>
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
>http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:03:29 EDT
From: Klusmanp@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: ** Getrag Info **

In a message dated 99-05-05 13:56:37 EDT, you write:

<< I have been following this thread for a while and I can not help be a
 little scared that my tranny will fly apart anytime soon.

snip

 The syncro's seem to be the main
 problem, and from what I have seen most syncro's (sp?) are made of
 brass/bronze/some powdered metal.  If anyone has the background or the
 drive to work on a project like this speak up and let's do it.
  >>

I talked to a California company called BRE engines awhile back about
rebuilding trannys w/ bad synchros. They are a drag racing products company
that races everything from rail cars to street cars. Their cars hold several
national records (I think they sponsor a Civic, for example). They do a
rebuild UPGRADE for Talon/Eclipse/Laser transaxles that improves shifting
performance. An independent source confirmed that the upgrade is for real
after a test drive.

I called and talked to them about the difficulty in finding synchros for the
3000GT/Stealth and was told they have the capability for manufacturing
synchros out of solid brass if need be. I suggested that BRE might offer
synchros if they got a chance to work on a tranny and take some measurements.
The guy I talked to seemed interested in the idea.

To get this ball rolling all we need to do is have someone take the plunge
and send in their bad tranny to BRE for a rebuild. I did, however, forget to
get a price for a rebuild (duuuuhhhh). First thing we need to do is contact
BRE and get an estimate on the rebuild cost and the price for individual and
partial/full sets of synchros.

If the rebuild cost turns out to be really high, I suggest we hold a lottery
to help with the cost:

"ONE LUCKY WINNER WILL GET $XXXXX TOWARDS A TRANNY REBUILD BY FAMED RACING
COMPANY BRE ENGINES!!!!"

My tranny is virtually brand new and I shift gennnntlyyyy so I doubt I'll
ever need new synchros - but It p***** me off the way Mitsu/Getrag won't
supply parts so I'd be willing to pledge some $$$ towards a lottery fund just
to see a source for good (improved??!!) synchros developed.

Whaddayaguysthink?

Paul Klusman
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:11:03 EDT
From: Klusmanp@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Valve noise question

In a message dated 99-05-05 00:03:32 EDT, you write:

<< What kind of noise?? Is it a slight clicking or does it sound like
 someone is lightly tapping the side of the top end with a hammer? Does
 the noise ever go away?? Are you sure the noise is coming from the valve
 area and not the underside of the engine?? >>

Clicking and light tapping at times. Only barely audible from inside the car
at a stop (radio and even a/c-heater fan on low masks it easily) Sounds like
multiple valves. Goes away at higher revs. Sounds like it is coming from the
front bank of valves. Sounds very much like your description. At least the
valves go bad in a consistent manner...

Paul Klusman
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 17:12:31 -0700
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Team3S: ** Getrag Info **

Klusmanp@aol.com wrote:

> .
>
> Whaddayaguysthink?
>

I like the idea Paul.. a good start is to get a price,  and hey, mine or anyone's tranny
can go from what I've heard, even with the finest/gentlest touch at the wheel.  So after
a price all we need is a uncorruptable to run the lottery.

Darc

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 17:22:18 -0700
From: "Terry Swift" <tlswift@hotbot.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: ** Getrag Info **

Maybe if the "Originators" of both this list, 3si, and the 3000GT List got together and went before Mitsu (USA - Pierre Gagnon, CEO and Japan if necessary) to explain the problem from their overall perspective, then maybe we could get some action. As individuals, our wonderful Mitsu Corp folks, couldn't care less, as long as we keep opening our wallets to them.  Mitsu is in a world of hurt financially, along with Nissan, so maybe they would listen to a dollars and cents approach.  Of course nobody wants to keep shelling out money to rebuild a tranny, but if parts are more readily available, I think people would be willing to stay with the brand - but as long as they keep the upper hand and make us buy a whole unit - probably thinking greater dollars and cents on this one - the 3si community will continue to shrink.  I've got a car that's really worth about $12,500 on the market, but with grinding synchros, my value drops a couple of grand.  Law of Economics says to ditch it wh!
ile I can get what I can or continue to loose money hand over fist due to continued problems.
- --

On Wed, 05 May 1999 16:06:45   wce wrote:
>Kevin;
>
>The brains are certainly gathered here and the talent...it's just a little different to
>do on-line brain storming with the time lags involved, other topics interspersed,  lack
>of being a physical room to examine material, etc. It makes it difficult...but not
>impossible.
>
>Jack certainly is knowledgeable about the synchros, as he manged a "one time only" order
>of some, and perhaps could input if someone really grabs the bull by the horns and
>organizes a "real" brainstorming situation. Paul was doing some serious investigative
>work on this not long ago and maybe can post the results again and aftermarket sources
>he found...I believe there were 2 different outlets for splines. One, which Jack posted,
>was reported to have superhardened metal, so might be the better of the two. Again, if
>we have all of the information, material, and people in one room, a solution/new
>fabrication would not likely be that hard to achieve.This topic may be a good thing to
>have a gathering for, instead of meeing to polish cars and shake hands. How about making
>(at least) one topic like this the theme of each gathering from this point on. That way,
>maybe some serious solutions will arise to: brakes, getrag, valve train, etc, etc. With
>the likes of Barry, Jack, Brad, Todd, Rich, Bob, Ken...the list is endless...in one
>gathering with a sharp focus (with a warehouse like Forrest's old place, endless
>beer)...and there ain't nothing I don't think we cann't do or solve. Treat it as a
>classroom: bring pictures, hardware, and examples of the problem/parts to be improved
>upon. We have the brains and all the willing help of the next generation who are herein
>offering services. Next thing...time and place appropriate for all (holiday city). Who'd
>want to miss it.
>
>Darc
>
>Kevin Schappell wrote:
>
>> I have been following this thread for a while and I can not help be a
>> little scared that my tranny will fly apart anytime soon.  I think with
>> this many people on the list we could band together and make our own parts.
>>  I work in an aluminum foundry with a pretty good machine shop doing all
>> the CNC programming and engineering.  If we could get a group of people
>> together, define the problems with the tranny's and then get the parts made
>> we could possibly solve the problems.  The syncro's seem to be the main
>> problem, and from what I have seen most syncro's (sp?) are made of
>> brass/bronze/some powdered metal.  If anyone has the background or the
>> drive to work on a project like this speak up and let's do it.
>>
>> Kevin Schappell
>
>
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>


HotBot - Search smarter.
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:43:29 EDT
From: MitsuVR41@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: ** Getrag Info ** Auto Tranmission?

Every TT stealth or Vr-4 I have ever driven with an auto transmission always
had very slow  response time switching gears..  The tranny would build up the
miles and hesitate between gears.... almost like it is having to GUESS  too
much..... not smooth or quick enough for me....just my opinion.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 17:44:44 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: ** Getrag Info **

band together and make our own parts.
 
> I work in an aluminum foundry with a pretty good machine shop doing all
>the CNC programming and engineering>we could possibly solve the problems.
 The syncro's seem tobe th emain problem   what I have seen most syncro's (sp?)
are made of brass/bronze/some powdered metal.  If anyone has the background
 or the drive to work on a project like this speak up and let's do it.


I tried several times about a month ago to get some used syncros to take to
a restoration machine shop in southern Ca. [ they make restoration parts for
Ferrari - lambo etc. ]. I would like a used set to take in to see if it's feasible and
to get a rough idea of cost. A new set would be needed at some time but at least
some positive action would be made.

    Help me out here  ----- Jim Berry

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:53:14 EDT
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: ** Getrag Info ** Auto Tranmission?

I've searched many a used car list to try & locate an Automatic VR-4 or TT.
Never found even one? If it existed, can this tranny be bought from a dealer?
Arty 91 VR-4


In a message dated 5/5/99 8:45:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MitsuVR41@aol.com
writes:

<< ubj: Re: Team3S: ** Getrag Info ** Auto Tranmission?
 Date: 5/5/99 8:45:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time
 From: MitsuVR41@aol.com
 Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
 Reply-to: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
 To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
 
 Every TT stealth or Vr-4 I have ever driven with an auto transmission always
 had very slow  response time switching gears..  The tranny would build up
the
 miles and hesitate between gears.... almost like it is having to GUESS  too
 much..... not smooth or quick enough for me....just my opinion.
 For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
 
  >>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 21:25:15 EDT
From: MitsuVR41@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: More Turbo problems

When I drive 80 mph in fifth gear.............and try to lightly
accelerate.....my  boost gauge gets to 0 and I hear and feel a pop up front
and my  car will not accelerate.  I have to be in 3rd gear to drive at 80mph
without tearing my turbos up.....this is  crazy......
Cruise control  is totally out of the question as well.  If I put it  in 5th
and try to even cruise at 90mph  when I reach a hill  the boost tries to
build and  I hear the popping again.
When I try to accelerate from a stop......the car gets good boost until the 
needle gets to
about 7  psi ?((which takes all of not even one second of course))  on the
stock  guage and then  the  turbos start  cutting  out and I lose horsepower
and the car stops accelerating......and my exhaust gets reall choppy
basically....any accleleration  in my car has  to be  done with the RPM's
above 4000!!!! or not done at all!!!!
any ideas????????????
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 23:33:13 -0400
From: "Kevin Schappell" <kevin@pacarsearch.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: ** Getrag Info **

I think this would be the best route.  If anyone has an old tranny laying
around take it apart and send a syncro to me or someone else to measure.
Then a drawing can be made and requests for quotes can be sent out.  The
nice thing about the list being national, we can get the best price.
Machining costs vary greatly depending on location.  Maybe the guy who is
offering the rebuilt transmissions can give us an old one or even measure a
new one.  I think it would be in his best interest to help us as he may have
a cheap source of parts down the road. (maybe even a stronger one)  Once we
have the cheapest quote we can get an initial small batch and have them
tested. (read-we need guinea pigs) As for money, here is my idea.  Who ever
would like to contribute can chip in for the first batch of parts.  Then we
will distribute the parts first to the ones who paid up front and then sell
the remaining ones to repay the investors.  Now I don't know how we keep
this honest but I am sure we can work some kind of open accounting system
online so everyone can be assured of a fair deal.  I don't know how to
address liability.  Today with the state of this country and lawyers it
could be a tricky issue.  Any ideas?



Kevin Schappell
Auto Answers
http://www.pacarsearch.com
Pennsylania's newest auto classifieds site.
Free ads, chat, links and research tools.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Berry <fastmax@home.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: ** Getrag Info **


>band together and make our own parts.

>I tried several times about a month ago to get some used syncros to take to
>a restoration machine shop in southern Ca. [ they make restoration parts
for
>Ferrari - lambo etc. ]. I would like a used set to take in to see if it's
feasible and
>to get a rough idea of cost. A new set would be needed at some time but at
least
>some positive action would be made.
>
>    Help me out here  ----- Jim Berry
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 23:42:12 -0400
From: Bill Wagner <wagner@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: ** Getrag Info ** Auto Tranmission?

Aso8@aol.com wrote:
>
> I've searched many a used car list to try & locate an Automatic VR-4 or TT.
> Never found even one? If it existed, can this tranny be bought from a dealer?

I believe, that when the Stealth/3000GT first came out, they had an auto
tranny available, but ONLY for a VERY short while. I would suspect that
the product may have been limited to Japan. I don't believe it was ever
officially advertised as being available. I wouldn't bet that it can be
bought from the dealer.

Good Luck,

Bill Wagner
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 00:27:45 -0400
From: Bill Wagner <wagner@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: ** Getrag Info **

Perhaps someone who bought some parts from the original Jack Tartadian
order hasn't installed them yet. It would be best to use UNUSED items as
a model since you don't want someone creating duplicates of worn parts.
Additionally, why limit it to just synchros...how about a full kit
including seals. Also keep in mind that parts will be needed to produce
parts for both 5 and 6 speed transaxles.Possibly, we could by a pair of
new (or rebuilt) Getrag 5 and 6 speed units. That SOUNDS like a lot of
money, but between the members on this list and those on the web site,
isn't it possible we could find at least a hundred people to combine to
buy a pair of units for disassembly?? I know I'd be MORE than willing to
fork over $60.00 - $100.00 for this "research" effort!! Perhaps we could
even find someone willing to part with a busted Getrag so the weaknesses
could be properly analyzed. About the only thing I'd be worried about is
that the materials being used are strong enough to do the job.

As far as liability goes...it's probably Mitsubishi and Chryslers risk,
after all, this is being caused by their policy.

Just my opinions,

                Bill Wagner


Kevin Schappell wrote:
>
> I think this would be the best route.  If anyone has an old tranny laying
> around take it apart and send a syncro to me or someone else to measure.
> Then a drawing can be made and requests for quotes can be sent out.  The
> nice thing about the list being national, we can get the best price.
> Machining costs vary greatly depending on location.  Maybe the guy who is
> offering the rebuilt transmissions can give us an old one or even measure a
> new one.  I think it would be in his best interest to help us as he may have
> a cheap source of parts down the road. (maybe even a stronger one)  Once we
> have the cheapest quote we can get an initial small batch and have them
> tested. (read-we need guinea pigs) As for money, here is my idea.  Who ever
> would like to contribute can chip in for the first batch of parts.  Then we
> will distribute the parts first to the ones who paid up front and then sell
> the remaining ones to repay the investors.  Now I don't know how we keep
> this honest but I am sure we can work some kind of open accounting system
> online so everyone can be assured of a fair deal.  I don't know how to
> address liability.  Today with the state of this country and lawyers it
> could be a tricky issue.  Any ideas?
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 22:57:55 -0700
From: David Margrave <davidma@premier1.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: ** Getrag Info **

I tend to lean in favor of organizing a class action lawsuit which I think would be more persuasive than sending the CEO a "Dear Sir, ... signed, Concerned Customer" letter.  I was very close to inquiring with a couple law firms, but stopped to find out what progress the previous legal saber rattling on the 3000gt.com web board had went.  Answer: nowhere yet.

My transmission is on the floor while I do the clutch, waiting for a replacement of a defective NEW release bearing which luckily I noticed before installing #@!$!  Anyway since its out of the car I noticed the wear on the rear output shaft spline, which is starting to show obvious and I'd say abnormal wear ridge patterns after only 35,000 miles on the car.  Mine isn't gone yet, but I'd say the consistency of this one problem (shaft splines) demonstrates a design definciency in the transmission.  The synchros is an additional problem.   As I understand it, we'd have to prove that Mitsu knew about the problems and design deficiencies in the transmission and did nothing to correct it.  So those of you who, to your credit, have complained in writing and gotten the boilerplate "not our problem. pbbbbt!" letter back, keep that stuff around for possible future reference.

email me privately so as not to crowd the list if you're pissed and you think you'd like to "join the class" if we go forward with this.

Dave


Terry Swift wrote:

> Maybe if the "Originators" of both this list, 3si, and the 3000GT List got together and went before Mitsu (USA - Pierre Gagnon, CEO and Japan if necessary) to explain the problem from their overall perspective, then maybe we could get some action. As individuals, our wonderful Mitsu Corp folks, couldn't care less, as long as we keep opening our wallets to them.  Mitsu is in a world of hurt financially, along with Nissan, so maybe they would listen to a dollars and cents approach.  Of course nobody wants to keep shelling out money to rebuild a tranny, but if parts are more readily available, I think people would be willing to stay with the brand - but as long as they keep the upper hand and make us buy a whole unit - probably thinking greater dollars and cents on this one - the 3si community will continue to shrink.  I've got a car that's really worth about $12,500 on the market, but with grinding synchros, my value drops a couple of grand.  Law of Economics says to ditch it !
wh!
> ile I can get what I can or continue to loose money hand over fist due to continued problems.
> --
>
> On Wed, 05 May 1999 16:06:45   wce wrote:
> >Kevin;
> >
> >The brains are certainly gathered here and the talent...it's just a little different to
> >do on-line brain storming with the time lags involved, other topics interspersed,  lack
> >of being a physical room to examine material, etc. It makes it difficult...but not
> >impossible.
> >
> >Jack certainly is knowledgeable about the synchros, as he manged a "one time only" order
> >of some, and perhaps could input if someone really grabs the bull by the horns and
> >organizes a "real" brainstorming situation. Paul was doing some serious investigative
> >work on this not long ago and maybe can post the results again and aftermarket sources
> >he found...I believe there were 2 different outlets for splines. One, which Jack posted,
> >was reported to have superhardened metal, so might be the better of the two. Again, if
> >we have all of the information, material, and people in one room, a solution/new
> >fabrication would not likely be that hard to achieve.This topic may be a good thing to
> >have a gathering for, instead of meeing to polish cars and shake hands. How about making
> >(at least) one topic like this the theme of each gathering from this point on. That way,
> >maybe some serious solutions will arise to: brakes, getrag, valve train, etc, etc. With
> >the likes of Barry, Jack, Brad, Todd, Rich, Bob, Ken...the list is endless...in one
> >gathering with a sharp focus (with a warehouse like Forrest's old place, endless
> >beer)...and there ain't nothing I don't think we cann't do or solve. Treat it as a
> >classroom: bring pictures, hardware, and examples of the problem/parts to be improved
> >upon. We have the brains and all the willing help of the next generation who are herein
> >offering services. Next thing...time and place appropriate for all (holiday city). Who'd
> >want to miss it.
> >
> >Darc
> >
> >Kevin Schappell wrote:
> >
> >> I have been following this thread for a while and I can not help be a
> >> little scared that my tranny will fly apart anytime soon.  I think with
> >> this many people on the list we could band together and make our own parts.
> >>  I work in an aluminum foundry with a pretty good machine shop doing all
> >> the CNC programming and engineering.  If we could get a group of people
> >> together, define the problems with the tranny's and then get the parts made
> >> we could possibly solve the problems.  The syncro's seem to be the main
> >> problem, and from what I have seen most syncro's (sp?) are made of
> >> brass/bronze/some powdered metal.  If anyone has the background or the
> >> drive to work on a project like this speak up and let's do it.
> >>
> >> Kevin Schappell
> >
> >
> >
> >For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
> >
>
> HotBot - Search smarter.
> http://www.hotbot.com
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