--
From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #169
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To:
owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence:
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Team3S
Digest Monday, May 3
1999 Volume 01 :
Number
169
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 2 May 1999 19:23:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: dustin poos <vr4_3000gt@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Team3S: For Sale!!!!!
I have a few thing from a 92 3000GT SL for sale,
The stock exaust (no
tips), red passenger side door fully loaded minus
handle, two heads
from a DOHC NA plus all accessories, cams, roller rockers,
etc.
Passenger side quarter panel, quarter glass, rear
bumper(inner/outer),
3 pc. tailights, complete rear suspension (ECS), 3 16"
factory mitsu
rims, almost brand new set of speed rated 225/55HR-16,
Directionals
used less than 1500 mi. If anyone has any questions please
e-mail me
PRIVATLEY.
Thanks,
Dustin
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------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 2 May 1999 22:55:39 EDT
From: UNCLEDONUT@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S:
clutch release bearing
In a message dated 5/2/99 10:18:04 PM Eastern
Daylight Time,
davidma@premier1.net writes:
>
sorry I'm so lame, but I can't figure out how to get the clutch
bearing
> off the trans input shaft. The shop manual shows a
snap ring, but I
> can't find one except the one holding the input
shaft in, which I'm not
> going to screw with.
>
> you wouldn't BELIEVE how much crud was inside the
bellhousing!
Hey Dave,
I'm doing my clutch right now
also. The transaxle just came out a couple
of hours ago. The
fork is held on the pivot ball with a snap spring of some
kind. I just
popped it off the ball and the release bearing came right off.
- -Dave
Rich
'91 R/T TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 2 May 1999 23:08:56 EDT
From: MitsuVR41@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: NEW
MOTOR---NEW TRANNY----STILL CAR TROUBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PROBLEM
#1
Okay, so I have a California stock 92 Vr-4 with a newly installed 92 GTO
engine.
The car ran fine for 3 weeks, then I had an injection
malfuncion.
Replaced the injectors
Since then the car has not ran
properly
When I try to boost slowly the car goes kind of okay, BUT when I try
to give
it a little horse power the boost cuts out and my exhaust sounds
choppy.
Apparently I'm not getting enough fuel pressure or something
becaue my car
idles extremely rough.
PROBLEM #2
If I hold my foot
on the gas and try to keep it at a constant RPM like say
1000 or
2000....
the rpm will jump up and down like from 700 to 1000 back to
700 or 2000 to
1700 back to 2000 etc...... the car
idles up and down.
PROBLEM#3
Had a new tranny installed 20,000
miles ago. The tranny still pops out of
gear at times, but no where
near the degree as the old "bad" tranny did. And
sometimes the shifting
feels tight and quick and at others feels longer, and
dry-er (less
fluid)
PROBLEM#4
At various speeds when the car runs at 2600 to 3000
rpm a low vibration
rattles the car
seemingly from underneath the
floorboard.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 3 May 1999 00:27:58 -0400
From: "Kevin Schappell" <kevin@pacarsearch.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Can I do it myself?
First a little background. I have been
working on cars most of my life (I
am 24) and consider myself a pretty good
mechanic. I have a one car garage
with a dirt floor (which I plan to
concrete very soon) and a good set of
general automotive tools. (metric
included) I just bought a 91 Stealth TT
with 72,000 miles on the
odometer and I am not sure if the timing belt was
ever changed. I do
want to change all fluids over to synthetic,add
underdrive pulleys and
install a Borla cat-back system. While I have
everything apart I figure
I can inspect the timing belt and determine if the
belt has been
changed. Here come the questions. :-)
1. Is this something
that can be tackled by someone with reasonable
mechanical
ability?
2. Is there any special tools I will need to change the timing
belt?
3. I was told by a tech at Nexus that if the belt was not changed
by 72,000
miles, there is a good chance it would have broken by now. Is
this your
experience?
4. Is the Borla system an easy bolt on, and is
it worth changing? I have
seen some opinions that it really does not
help unless you are upgrading
turbo's and fuel system. I have to admit
I would do it anyway just for the
sound.
I think that's enuff for
tonight, but I am sure I will have more later. :-)
TIA,
Kevin
Schappell
Auto Answers
http://www.pacarsearch.com
Pennsylania's
newest auto classifieds site.
Free ads, chat, links and research
tools.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 2 May 1999 23:40:31 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: More rotors
Rich, everyone,
I suggested this awhile
back, and it was dismissed.
This is a valid idea, what if your wheel
bearings/ hubs were flexing?
My concern is that maybe the hub is flexing
causing something to be out of
shape.
The MR2 upgraded their hubs for
"steering feel" in 1994, thus telling the
public that the hub/bearing
assembly was flexing.
Don't get me wrong, but the rotors could be
defective, and most likely are.
I have always believed in looking past the
broken part for other things
wrong.
E.G.: Piston ring lands broken =
detonation not defective piston etc...
> Brad
Check out my home
page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
>
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com
ICQ# 3612682
When I described my experiences snapping PowerSlots to
the Porterfield
expert, he suggested that perhaps the rotors were breaking at
the hub
because of cornering stresses. Topeka is primarily a left-hand track
which
puts most of the stress on the right front wheel, and I did break
two
right-hand rotors on two separate occasions, both breaking in the
very
first driving session -- one on the 4th lap, one at the end of the first
20
min. session.
It does not matter, however, whether PowerSlots snap
because of excessive
heat or cornering stresses. Either way, they are not
suitable for open
track events. I don't want to use anything that might break
into two pieces
and render my vehicle unbrakable again. The last time was
kinda
frightening, when the brakes went at about 100 mph with a tight
right
approaching. A long runoff area saved my big butt.
Rich/old
poop/Somebody stop me!
.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 2 May 1999 23:52:08 -0500
From: "Omar Malik" <ojm@iname.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Can I
do it myself?
> 1. Is this something that can be tackled by
someone with reasonable
> mechanical ability?
Yes!! If you have the
time and patience to try. I'm 19, and i consider
myself to have good mechanic
ability, but i sure wouldn't say i'm a great
mechanic (you can never know
everything and you always learn something new
everyday!). I did my water
pump, timing belt and generally cleaned out the
throttle body, intake plenum
and intake manifold myself (almost 3 to 4 mm of
carbon buildup in the
manifold!!!). I also changed the springs, installed an
alarm and finalized my
mp3 comptuer install while i was at it. I can't say
i've ever been able to
control my cursing when no one's around (some of the
neighbors may have
overheard though). I didn't come across any major
problems. Just hassles
along the way. As long as you have your manual by
your side, you _shouldn't_
have any problems. And patience is something you
may already know is
required.
> 2. Is there any special tools I will need to change
the timing belt?
Yes, you'll need a tool to tension the timing belt. i
believe the part
number is 998767. if you can't find it at any dealer, you
can get it
straight from miller special tools 1-800-801-5420.
>
3. I was told by a tech at Nexus that if the belt was not
> changed
by 72,000
> miles, there is a good chance it would have broken by
now. Is this your
> experience?
My car has a hair over 80k
miles on it. The timing belt never broke, and i
didn't see any signs of it
doing so. My water pump went out, which was the
reason (and excuse) to do the
timing belt. There are stories of some
breaking at 50k and others at 120k. I
guess it depends on the conditions the
car has been through and how it's been
treated/maintaned.
> 4. Is the Borla system an easy bolt on, and
is it worth changing? I have
> seen some opinions that it really
does not help unless you are upgrading
> turbo's and fuel system. I
have to admit I would do it anyway
> just for the
>
sound.
Wouldn't know about that. But most people seem to be happy with
it. It's a
step in the right direction on the upgrade path ;) Every little
bit adds up.
>
> I think that's enuff for tonight, but I am sure
I will have more
> later. :-)
>
> TIA,
> Kevin
Schappell
Omar
92 r/t
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
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------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 03 May 1999 00:02:39 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: More rotors
>I suggested this awhile back, and it was
dismissed.
>This is a valid idea, what if your wheel bearings/ hubs were
flexing?
How do you check that? We've done the normal
grab-the-wheel-and-shake-it
test, and everything seems normal.
Rich/old poop/somebody stop me!
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 3 May 1999 00:10:55 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: NEW MOTOR---NEW TRANNY----STILL CAR
TROUBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Problem 1: Are you sure the
injectors are the correct replacements? Could
the GTO have had a
different set of injectors?
Sounds like you have a misfire, I would
look at plug wires and connections
to your injectors. Sounds like you have a
boost leak, or something
misfiring. Maybe when you replaced the
injectors you messed something up?
Look at the Y-pipe gasket, and all the
injector insulators, along with all
hose clamps.
Problem2: problem 1
and 2 are related, see problem 1.
As for 3 & 4. Something is
lose or the tranny is bad. You might check your
rear motor mount
also.
> Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
>
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com
ICQ# 3612682
- -----Original Message-----
PROBLEM
#1
Okay, so I have a California stock 92 Vr-4 with a newly installed 92
GTO
engine.
The car ran fine for 3 weeks, then I had an injection
malfuncion.
Replaced the injectors
Since then the car has not ran
properly
When I try to boost slowly the car goes kind of okay, BUT when I try
to give
it a little horse power the boost cuts out and my exhaust sounds
choppy.
Apparently I'm not getting enough fuel pressure or something becaue
my car
idles extremely rough.
PROBLEM #2
If I hold my foot on the
gas and try to keep it at a constant RPM like say
1000 or
2000....
the rpm will jump up and down like from 700 to 1000 back to
700 or 2000
to
1700 back to 2000 etc...... the car
idles up and down.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 3 May 1999 00:13:26 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: More rotors
I have no clue! Since the stress on the
hub/bearing assembly will be great
with race tires and hard driving I simply
don't see how one could check this
theory. I am sure there is a way to mark
things and look for stress areas.
> Brad
Check out my home
page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
>
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com
ICQ# 3612682
>I suggested this awhile back, and it was
dismissed.
>This is a valid idea, what if your wheel bearings/ hubs were
flexing?
How do you check that? We've done the normal
grab-the-wheel-and-shake-it
test, and everything seems normal.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 03 May 1999 04:53:15 -0700
From: David Margrave <davidma@premier1.net>
Subject:
Team3S: max flywheel resurfacing
Does anyone have that number for the max
amount of material you can have
machined off the flywheel? I think it
was like 0.5 mm or 0.1 mm
Almost there!
Dave
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 03 May 1999 18:37:42 -0500
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
NEW MOTOR---NEW TRANNY----STILL CAR
TROUBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MitsuVR41@aol.com wrote:
> PROBLEM
#1
> Okay, so I have a California stock 92 Vr-4 with a newly installed 92
GTO
> engine.
> The car ran fine for 3 weeks, then I had an
injection malfuncion.
> Replaced the injectors
> Since then the car
has not ran properly
> When I try to boost slowly the car goes kind of
okay, BUT when I try to give
> it a little horse power the boost cuts out
and my exhaust sounds choppy.
> Apparently I'm not getting enough fuel
pressure or something becaue my car
> idles extremely
rough.
>
> PROBLEM #2
> If I hold my foot on the gas and try
to keep it at a constant RPM like say
> 1000 or 2000....
> the
rpm will jump up and down like from 700 to 1000 back to 700 or
2000 to
> 1700 back to 2000 etc...... the car idles up and
down.
Sounds like the Mass Air Sensor wiring harness is not connected or
not fully
contacting the mass air sensor. Check the harness and wires
and contacts
on it, you know the thing the airfilter is attached to.
Still, usually the car idles
ok with that harness off.
Maybe the
cams are not on the right teeth of cambelt/are out of synch.
Maybe the
hose to the fuel pressure regulator is not on or is going to
wrong port on
manifold/hose junction.
The fact that it is Japanese engine should not
change matters, as you still
have your old stock computer and massair
sensor.
>
> PROBLEM#4
> At various speeds when the car
runs at 2600 to 3000 rpm a low vibration
> rattles the car
>
seemingly from underneath the floorboard.
>
Maybe bad bearing on
one of the driveshafts going to back of car.
Jack
Tertadian
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 03 May 1999 18:55:07 -0500
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
More rotors
I don't think flex of bearings/hub assy is large contributor
here.
I have never heard of such a thing being any significant factor,
but
that doesn't mean much. However--
In OUR cars which are designed
heavy-duty because they
are heavy and AWD so driving AND braking via front
wheels,
it is less likely than some brand X cars.
If true, why does no
other brand of rotor do this?
Do the rotors come off as a solid ring, or are
they fractured
THROUGH one of those "slots" or grooves in the rotors?
The
brake calipers have pistons that are able to move in and
out, if there was a
significant force put against them in one
direction (rotor tilting over due
to bearing/hub flex)
the pistons would adjust to that force by sliding over
the small
distance.
The force applied by BRAKE pressure is EQUAL on
both
sides of the caliper so cancels out, leaving only the net force
by
such a proposed "bending of hub assy" as remainder, and the
caliper
pots move pretty easily, certainly WAY easier than the
amount of force needed
to BREAK OFF a STEEL brake disc
from its hub!!
Any force
applied on-axis to the rotor (BRAKING force)
from caliper should never snap
off a good/properly designed
rotor. Well, never is a long time but
Powerslots are WAY off
my list, for ever...
Jack Tertadian
Brad
Bedell wrote:
> wheel bearings/ hubs were flexing?
> maybe
hub flexing causing something to be out of shape.
> MR2 upgraded
hubs in 1994, telling public hub/bearing assembly
flexing.
> rotors could be defective, likely
are.
>
> snapping PowerSlots to the Porterfield
>
expert, he suggested that perhaps the rotors were breaking at the hub
>
because of cornering stresses.
> It does not matter, however, whether
PowerSlots snap because of excessive
> heat or cornering stresses. Either
way, they are not suitable for open
> track events.
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 03 May 1999 19:01:51 -0500
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Can I do it myself?
Kevin Schappell wrote: 91 Stealth TT
Timing Belt Change:
> 1. Is this something that can be tackled
by someone with reasonable
> mechanical ability?
Yes, but make sure
you line up the teeth/cam sprockets right. I would
also change the cam
tensioner device, some have gone bad after timing
belt change. Consider
changing water pump.
> 2. Is there any special tools I will need
to change the timing belt?
There is timing belt tensioner tool that helps
some.
>
> 3. I was told by Nexus that if belt not changed
by 72,000
> there is good chance would have broken by
now.
False. The chances are highly likely it would NOT have broken
but would
keep going fine for a long time. It is just that wear is not
same for all cars,
or belts, and 60,000 was the point Mitsu set as "safety
time" to change so the
vast majority of cars would have seen NO problems
yet.
> 4. Is the Borla system an easy bolt on, and is it worth
changing? I have
> seen some opinions that it really does not help
unless you are upgrading
> turbo's and fuel system. I have to admit
I would do it anyway just for the
> sound.
>
Borla sounds
cool. It helps high rpm hp some, not alot (?1-3mph quartermile) but
the
more you modify, the more air you ask exh to carry, the more it will help.
Gutting
main cat helps.
Jack T.
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 3 May 1999 09:35:49 -0400
From: "Marc Jaffe" <marc@marcjaffe.com>
Subject: Team3S:
power dip as soon as car moves for first time
hey guys,
I have a
bizzare problem, as soon as the car (95 vr4) moves forward
or
back a few feet after
starting it, whether the first time or as a test
over and over,the power
dips down. the head lights dip and the electrical
system
seems to take a dip also. it comes back and is fine the rest of the
trip...
Any ideas?
weak battery?
charging system?
some
controller?
it almost seems that it is during the diagnostic
sequence..
BTW My anti lock break light is on full time due to a faulty motor
relay. i
have not had a chance to get to this yet
any
connection?
thanx
Marc
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 03 May 1999 09:06:10 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: More rotors
>Do the rotors come off as a solid ring, or
are they fractured
>THROUGH one of those "slots" or grooves in the
rotors?
They break cleanly at the hub, leaving two perfect pieces:
a
solid ring and a hub, with nary a fracture mark on them.
>Powerslots
are WAY off
>my list, for ever...
Amen to that.
Rich/old
poop/somebody stop me!
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 03 May 1999 07:47:25 PDT
From: "Chris S." <shadowphantom_1@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: 3000GT Service Manual CD
I am selling the 3000GT Service Manual
CD. I bought it less than 2 months
ago and now have no use for
it. It was only used once. No I didn't copy
it. I am
selling it for $25 shipped. If you are interested please reply
PRIVATELY.
Thanks,
Chris
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------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 3 May 1999 11:03:55 -0400
From: "Michael D. Romano" <mdr-nhl@worldnet.att.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Gasoline and Injectors
Folks,
I've recently been trying to
track down some throttle response issues with
my car. I seem to have
recently (within the last couple of weeks) lost some
pick-up. I changed
the front 3 plugs a few weeks before that with factory
stock plugs. Also
changed the stock air filter.
Just before the pick-up loss, I filled with
Sunoco 94 octane, and added some
STP injector cleaner. Since then, I've
burned that tank of gas, and am
halfway through a tank of BP 92 octane.
I
regularly fill up (for the last 30k miles) with 92 octane BP gas, to try
and
stay consistent with what I put in it. Anyways, I was just speaking with
a
co-worker who used to work at a Porsche/Audi dealership, and he asked me
what
brand of gas I use. When I told him BP, he said that they
were
bodily-threatened by the Service Manager at the dealership to never use
BP
gas in the cars, as the additional alcohol deteriorates the fuel
injector
o-rings , causing them to suck air past the seal. He sited one or
two cases
that he has witnessed.
Now, is this an old-wives tale? Is he
correct and his old Service Manager
correct? What about the millions of cars
running it regulary? I generally
take most word-of-mouth tales with a grain
of salt, but it has me thinking
now....
Any input would be
appreciated!
- -Mike
'93 Stealth ES w/90k
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 3 May 1999 10:21:51 -0500
From: S J Cowan <sjc0u812@juno.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Gasoline and Injectors
Michael:
>Since then, I've
burned that tank of gas, and
>am
>halfway through a tank of BP 92
octane.
<snip>
>he said that they
were
>bodily-threatened by the Service Manager at the dealership
I
was told this many years ago when still living in Ohio. I always
ran
Sunoco or Shell when I lived there. BP was and still is a last
resort.
I have not had good luck with this
product.
Regards,
Scott
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------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 03 May 1999 10:27:27 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Gasoline and Injectors
When I told him BP, he said that they
were
>bodily-threatened by the Service Manager at the dealership to never
use BP
>gas in the cars, as the additional alcohol deteriorates the fuel
injector
>o-rings , causing them to suck air past the seal. He sited one
or two cases
>that he has witnessed. >Now, is this an old-wives tale?
Is he correct and
his old Service Manager
>correct? What about the
millions of cars running it regulary? I generally
>take most word-of-mouth
tales with a grain of salt, but it has me thinking
>now....
>
A
few years ago, a fuel injector failed in my 89 Olds Cutlass, and my
mechanic
attributed it to using ethanol. He said it eats away the
insulation, and
shorts out the injector. It only took one failure to shut
down the engine,
but 3 of the 6 injectors were bad.
Rich /old poop/somebody stop
me!
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 3 May 1999 08:29:06 -0700
From: "james berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
More rotors
>>Do the rotors come off as a solid ring, or are they
fractured
>>THROUGH one of those "slots" or grooves in the
rotors?
>
>They break cleanly at the hub, leaving two perfect
pieces:
>a solid ring and a hub, with nary a fracture mark on them.
Were the rotors returned to the manufacturer?? And if so what was
their response?
From a liability point of view they can't just ignore a
failure of that nature. I would
think a carefully worded letter from the law
firm of Dewey, Phukm & Howe would
get their attention and force an
explanation of the
failure.
Jim Berry
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 03 May 1999 10:59:44 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: More rotors
>
>Were the rotors returned to the
manufacturer?? And if so what was their
response?
When I broke the
first one, I sent it back. They sent me two new ones (a
left and a right),
allegedly from a different batch, and said not to use to
leftover left
rotor.
When I broke the second one, I told them I did not trust the
rotors any
more, and they said they would refund the original purchase price.
I am
waiting, even as we speak, for UPS to come get all three
rotors.
I bought them through Foreign Auto Tech in Millbrae, CA, and they
have been
very helpful and cooperative. They are the ones who spoke with
the
manufacturer. It cost me nothing to send the parts back, because they
send
UPS out to get them. Buncha nice guys out there.
>>From a
liability point of view they can't just ignore a failure of that
nature. I
would
>think a carefully worded letter from the law firm of Dewey, Phukm
& Howe
would
>get their attention and force an explanation of the
failure.
If I had hit anything when the second rotor broke, I think I
would have
whispered a few love words in their corporate ears along the lines
of what
you suggest.
Rich/old poop/somebody stop me!
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 03 May 1999 11:08:32 -0500
From: "Todd Schmalzried" <Q11981@email.mot.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Gasoline and Injectors
Are you sure you're thinking of ethanol
eating parts? I've used it for years
in my cars and never had any problems.
When "gasohol" first appeared there
was some stations using ethanol, and
others which were using methanol.
Gasohol got a very bad name because the
methanol is very hard on parts,
unless the system is designed for it. A 10%
ethanol solution is supposed to
be safe, and gets you ~3 points of octane. I
also think it's a much better
additive than a lot of the other oxygenating
agents they add to gas. There's
one which they use in Colorado in the winter,
and also a lot of places in
California. It stinks and also makes cars knock a
lot easier. I think it's
called MTBE, but don't remember for sure. I know I'm
going to keep using gas
with ethanol, you guys will have to decide for
yourselves.
Todd
Merritt wrote:
>
> as the additional
alcohol deteriorates the fuel injector
> >o-rings , causing them to
suck air past the seal. He sited one or two cases
> >that he has
witnessed.
> >
> A few years ago, a fuel injector failed in my 89
Olds Cutlass, and my
> mechanic attributed it to using ethanol. He said it
eats away the
> insulation, and shorts out the injector. It only took one
failure to shut
> down the engine, but 3 of the 6 injectors were
bad.
>
- --
Todd
Schmalzried
q11981@email.mot.com
- -You "put
your 2 cents in" but only get "a penny for your thoughts"
- -Who gets the
change? Think about it. O-
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 03 May 1999 12:29:18 -0700
From: Jeff Schwartz <jeff.schwartz@citicorp.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: power dip as soon as car moves for first
time
Hi,
I have noticed the same thing and finally figured
out what it is.
The only difference is that my ABS light is not on.
When the car
moves forward or reverse for the first time after starting
it. The
ABS does a diagnostic on all 4 wheels which requires a lot of
current.
This is what dips the electrical system for about 1
second. I see
the same thing happen if it's night time and my head
lamps are turned
on before moving. If your ABS light is on, you might
have some other
problem, but the electrical dip is normal initally.
- --
Jeff Schwartz
1995 Panama Green Pearl VR4
Borla and K&N
FIPK
Marc Jaffe wrote:
>
> hey guys,
> I have a
bizzare problem, as soon as the car (95 vr4) moves forward
or
> back a few feet after
> starting it, whether the first time or
as a test over and over,the power
> dips down. the head lights dip and the
electrical system
> seems to take a dip also. it comes back and is fine
the rest of the trip...
> Any ideas?
> weak battery?
>
charging system?
> some controller?
> it almost seems that it is
during the diagnostic sequence..
> BTW My anti lock break light is on full
time due to a faulty motor relay. i
> have not had a chance to get to this
yet
> any connection?
> thanx
> Marc
>
> For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 3 May 1999 11:41:32 -0500
From: S J Cowan <sjc0u812@juno.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Gasoline and Injectors
Todd:
>A 10% ethanol solution is
>supposed to
>be safe, and gets you ~3 points of octane. I also
think it's a much
>better
>additive than a lot of the other
oxygenating agents they add to gas.
<snip>
>I think
>it's
>called MTBE
Our owner's manual warns not to use
gasoline with this form of petroleum
based additive in it. Here in
Milwaukee, that's Amoco Ultimate. Our
local governing body
determined it's just too polluted here, so we are
required to use what is
termed "reformulated" gasoline. It's crap. I
run Techron through
the system every quarter to stay on top of it.
However, my VR4 ran markedly
better with Mobil gasoline that uses Ethanol
versus the Amoco and
MTBE.
Regards,
Scott
___________________________________________________________________
You
don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely
free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or
call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 3 May 1999 12:01:47 -0500
From: "Gendron, Curt" <Curt.Gendron@westgroup.com>
Subject:
Team3S: ACT clutch problem
Hey everyone,
I've got a question about
the ACT clutch I bought for my 95 R/T TT. I'm
having my dealer do the
install right now. I just got off the phone with
the dealer who says
the tech that is installing the clutch doesn't think the
plate is designed
well. He says there is 16 rivits put into one side and
only 2 on the
other side. I am not a clutch expert so I'm not sure what
that
means. I need some emergency advice from anyone who has an ACT
clutch
or knows about clutches in general. Is this the way it is
suppose to be
designed or maybe the plate is defective. I might give
ACT a call to, but I
want to shoot the question out to you guys too.
Please e-mail me privatly
with your wisdom, and hurry. I've got to make
a decsion in the next two
hours.
Thanks,
Curt G
95 R/T TT
and
author of Minnesota 3/S at:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Shop/1044/
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 3 May 1999 12:27:59 -0500
From: "Gendron, Curt" <Curt.Gendron@westgroup.com>
Subject:
Team3S: FW: ACT clutch problem
O.K. Nevermind my last e-mail.
I just talked to the ACT tech support.
Sounds like they missed some rivits on
the disk (not the plate like I
mentioned below) So ACT is going to
overnight a new disk to the dealership.
Kudos to the tech at Wayzata Mitsu
that noticed the defect and kudos to the
nice tech support people at
ACT. So if your in midstream on typing me out
and e-mail, you don't
have to now. :)
Thanks guys!!
Curt G
95 R/T TT
and author
of Minnesota 3/S at:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Shop/1044/
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Gendron, Curt
> Sent: Monday,
May 03, 1999 12:02 PM
> To: 'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'
>
Subject: ACT clutch problem
>
> Hey everyone,
>
> I've
got a question about the ACT clutch I bought for my 95 R/T TT. I'm
>
having my dealer do the install right now. I just got off the phone
with
> the dealer who says the tech that is installing the clutch doesn't
think
> the plate is designed well. He says there is 16 rivits put
into one side
> and only 2 on the other side. I am not a clutch
expert so I'm not sure
> what that means. I need some emergency
advice from anyone who has an ACT
> clutch or knows about clutches in
general. Is this the way it is suppose
> to be designed or maybe the
plate is defective. I might give ACT a call
> to, but I want to
shoot the question out to you guys too. Please e-mail
> me privatly
with your wisdom, and hurry. I've got to make a decsion in
> the
next two hours.
>
> Thanks,
> Curt G
> 95 R/T
TT
> and author of Minnesota 3/S at:
> http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Shop/1044/
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 03 May 1999 13:36:13 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Gasoline and Injectors
At 11:08 AM 5/3/99 -0500, you
wrote:
>Are you sure you're thinking of ethanol eating parts?
Here
in Iowa, it's ethanol, and it's made from corn.
I remember goin' to
school in Alabama, where they made white lightning from
corn.
In fact, up
on Sand Mountain, outside of Huntsville, they would measure the
corn yield in
gallons per acre, not in bushels.
Rich/old poop
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 3 May 1999 16:10:32 EDT
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Stock head flow
rates
Does anybody have a set of stock head flow numbers for VR-4? any
year will do.
Arty 91 VR-4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 3 May 1999 15:26:51 -0500
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Stock head flow rates
Reprinted without permission
:)
Valve Intake Exhaust
lift
0.100" 86 80
0.200" 165
164
0.300" 230 191
0.400" 246 195
0.500" 249 196
0.600" 251
196
> Brad
Check out my home page: http://home.austin.rr.com/overboost/
>
E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com
ICQ# 3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]
On Behalf Of Aso8@aol.com
Sent: Monday, May
03, 1999 3:11 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Cc:
Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Stock head
flow rates
Does anybody have a set of stock head flow numbers for VR-4?
any year will
do.
Arty 91 VR-4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 3 May 1999 14:05:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sam_Wong@hyperdream.com
Subject:
Team3S: Problems with my Getrag
Hi all.
I have the dreaded worn
output shaft problem on my Stealth AWD transmission.
My warranty company did
not want to pay for a new transmission and transfer
case. Instead, they
approved my mechanic to buy the parts from a San Diego
shop called MD
Auto. Their address is 6460 85 Convoy Court, San
Diego,
California. Phone number is (619)390-0450. I was told that
they fix
Stealth/VR-4 Getrags all the time.
After hearing all the
problems with locating Getrag parts, is it possible
that we just sent our
money to a shop that doesn't have the correct parts?
I'm quite skeptical that
they would have it when no one else (except Kormex)
would have it.
If
someone living in San Diego is interested in confirming that this shop
fixes
3S Getrags all the time and has the right parts, or if someone knows
anything
about this shop, please let me know.
Thanks,
Sam.
3SI Member
#0269
- --
Sam_Wong at hyperdream.com | http://www.hyperdream.com/~samw
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 03 May 1999 16:08:15 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Problems with my Getrag
At 02:05 PM 5/3/99 -0700, you
wrote:
>Hi all.
>
>I have the dreaded worn output shaft
problem on my Stealth AWD transmission.
>My warranty company did not want
to pay for a new transmission and transfer
>case. Instead, they
approved my mechanic to buy the parts from a San Diego
>shop called MD
Auto.
They will learn. My warranty company wanted to take my car
to AAMCO to get
the Getrag fixed.
"They fix those transmissions all the
time, " they said.
Yeah, right. Ask MD Auto to order the parts first. See
how far they get.
When MD Auto comes back and admits they can't get the parts
and don't fix
OUR transmissions, then the warranty company will have to go to
the dealer,
like mine did.
The neat thing about getting a new tranny
is that it comes with a 12-month
warranty on top of the extended
warranty.
Rich/old poop/Somebody stop me!
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 3 May 1999 17:02:12 -0500
From: "Omar Malik" <ojm@iname.com>
Subject: Team3S:
starnet
FYI, those of you that subscribed to starnet may know it has gone
down. if
anyone is interested, a new list has been created to replace it
at
http://3000gt_stealth.listbot.com.
Omar
92
r/t
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 3 May 1999 17:45:56 -0500
From: "Bill Davis" <wjdavis@inlink.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Problems with my Getrag
Sam,
Not to be too negative, but
I think if there were a shop
anywhere on this continent that fixed 6 speed
Getrags
"ALL THE TIME", we would know about it.
Tell them to get the parts
first.
Bill Davis 95 VR-4
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
<Sam_Wong@hyperdream.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent:
Monday, May 03, 1999 4:05 PM
Subject: Team3S: Problems with my
Getrag
> Hi all.
>
> I have the dreaded worn output
shaft problem on my Stealth AWD
transmission.
> My warranty company did
not want to pay for a new transmission and
transfer
> case.
Instead, they approved my mechanic to buy the parts from a San
Diego
>
shop called MD Auto. Their address is 6460 85 Convoy Court, San
Diego,
> California. Phone number is (619)390-0450. I was told
that they fix
> Stealth/VR-4 Getrags all the time.
>
> After
hearing all the problems with locating Getrag parts, is it possible
> that
we just sent our money to a shop that doesn't have the correct parts?
>
I'm quite skeptical that they would have it when no one else
(except
Kormex)
> would have it.
>
> If someone living in
San Diego is interested in confirming that this shop
> fixes 3S Getrags
all the time and has the right parts, or if someone knows
> anything about
this shop, please let me know.
>
> Thanks,
> Sam.
> 3SI
Member #0269
>
> --
> Sam_Wong at hyperdream.com | http://www.hyperdream.com/~samw
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 03 May 1999 15:57:45 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Subject:
Team3S: ** Getrag Info **
Sam_Wong@hyperdream.com wrote:
>
> Hi all.
>
> I have the dreaded worn output shaft problem
on my Stealth AWD transmission.
> My warranty company did not want to pay
for a new transmission and transfer
> case. Instead, they approved
my mechanic to buy the parts from a San Diego
> shop called MD Auto.
Their address is 6460 85 Convoy Court, San Diego,
> California.
Phone number is (619)390-0450. I was told that they fix
>
Stealth/VR-4 Getrags all the time.
>
> After hearing all the
problems with locating Getrag parts, is it possible
> that we just sent
our money to a shop that doesn't have the correct parts?
> I'm quite
skeptical that they would have it when no one else (except Kormex)
> would
have it.
>
> If someone living in San Diego is interested in
confirming that this shop
> fixes 3S Getrags all the time and has the
right parts, or if someone knows
> anything about this shop, please let me
know.
I just got off the phone with Mike at MD Auto. This is for
real. He
has been rebuilding Getrags for *** 4 *** years. He said
a lot of Mitsu
& Dodge dealers and aftermarket warranty companies know
about him and
use him.
Prices:
$2695 for rebuilt tranny &
rebuilt transfer case, I didn't ask for
seperate prices
$500 core
charge
~$200 round trip shipping to Atlantic coast
He uses new
parts. Although he wouldn't devulge his sources, he did say
they use
new bearings (I forgot the name but they're from France). They
use new
synchro's although they only replace the bad ones, they use
Mitsu seals, they
also do the 18 or 25 spline shafts. He said that you
cannot replace a
small 18 spline shaft with the larger 25 spline shaft
since the hole in the
case is a different size. I forgot to ask if the
shafts they use are of
better quality than the original. I also didn't
ask if they just sell
parts.
Shipping takes two boxes because of weight. He said tranny
alone is
about 120 lbs. They use UPS. They put the tranny in a
plastic bag, put
it in a box, then fill the box with foam. You are
supposed to send back
the cores in the same boxes.
He is faxing me
some literature as I write this. Send me your questions
and I'll phone
him again soon.
Ken,
P.S. Sam, it looks like your warranty
company is instructing your
mechanic to buy the rebuilt parts and he will
just do the removal &
re-installation.
- --
How many roads
must a man travel down before he admits he is lost!
Ken
Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 04 May 1999 01:10:09 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Brakes and Heat question
> Although it will make hardly any
difference, consider painting both the
> rotor and caliper flat black. As
we all know, black radiates more heat then
> does yellow or red or
silver.
Check out the rotors and you'll see that there is only a little
surface you can
paint unless you considered painting the rotors surface
(gulp). Also the area of
the calipers is too small to transfer heat.
-
-----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo
(Animale Rosso)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 04 May 1999 01:06:37 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Can I do it myself?
> > 1. Is this something that can
be tackled by someone with reasonable
> > mechanical
ability?
You must be familiar with the timing on our cars to avoid any
mistake and big
problems due to an error.
> > 3. I was
told by a tech at Nexus that if the belt was not
> > changed by 72,000
miles, there is a good chance it would have broken by now.
60k is what
Mitsu says it's the min. livetime of the belt. If it breaks at 61k
you're too
late :(
> My car has a hair over 80k miles on it. The timing belt
never broke, and i
> didn't see any signs of it doing so.
No,
you'll probably see only the signs after it broke. It's like playing
russian
roulette :) The longer you drive the more the chance that it
brakes.
> > 4. Is the Borla system an easy bolt on, and is it
worth changing?
Easy bolt on yes, but not worth changing.
>
> I have seen some opinions that it really does not help unless you
are
> > upgrading turbo's and fuel system. I have to admit I would do
it anyway
> > just for the sound.
True facts on my webpage (dyno
sessions). The exhaust does only help in the
higher rpm if any and you'll
loose some power in the lower band. It sounds good
around 4000 and more but
is damn annyoing when crusing around between 2000 and
3000. The problems are
the mufflers that are way too small. I started to hate it
!
>
Wouldn't know about that. But most people seem to be happy with it. It's
a
> step in the right direction on the upgrade path ;)Every little bit
adds up
No ! The exhaust is the wrong path. You will do a lot mods and
spending $$$
before doing the exhaust.
This is fact ! Even more without a
boost controller changing the exhaust will
give you more loss in the low
end.
The correct path is : filter, boost controller, regapping plugs, fuel
pump,
injectors, A/F controller, turbos, exhaust, intercooler, and more.
Gutting the
pre-cats does help more than any exhaust.
-
-----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo
(Animale Rosso)
K&N FIPK,Magnecor wires,Blitz DSBC/gauge/Dual Timer,Apexi
AFC,HKS SBOV,
ATR DP/testpipe,Borla Cat-back,OZ Mito2 rims,Yoko
AVS-Z1,braided brake lines,
Bremsa brakes,Pagid RS-R pads
Check out:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/3000gt.html
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 3 May 1999 19:31:12 -0500
From: "CEnder (Chris Chiasson)" <cender@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: ** Getrag Info **
maybe this guy could build us a better tranny
that fit stock specs, but that
wouldn't break as much --- special metals....
titanium/carbon fiber... etc
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>;
The Browns <mabs@cts.com>
Sent:
Monday, May 03, 1999 5:57 PM
Subject: Team3S: ** Getrag Info
**
> Sam_Wong@hyperdream.com wrote:
>
>
> > Hi all.
> >
> > I have the dreaded worn
output shaft problem on my Stealth AWD
transmission.
> > My warranty
company did not want to pay for a new transmission and
transfer
> >
case. Instead, they approved my mechanic to buy the parts from a
San
Diego
> > shop called MD Auto. Their address is 6460 85
Convoy Court, San Diego,
> > California. Phone number is
(619)390-0450. I was told that they fix
> > Stealth/VR-4 Getrags
all the time.
> >
> > After hearing all the problems with
locating Getrag parts, is it
possible
> > that we just sent our
money to a shop that doesn't have the correct
parts?
> > I'm quite
skeptical that they would have it when no one else (except
Kormex)
>
> would have it.
> >
> > If someone living in San Diego is
interested in confirming that this
shop
> > fixes 3S Getrags all the
time and has the right parts, or if someone
knows
> > anything about
this shop, please let me know.
>
> I just got off the phone with
Mike at MD Auto. This is for real. He
> has been rebuilding
Getrags for *** 4 *** years. He said a lot of Mitsu
> & Dodge
dealers and aftermarket warranty companies know about him and
> use
him.
>
> Prices:
> $2695 for rebuilt tranny & rebuilt
transfer case, I didn't ask for
> seperate prices
> $500
core charge
> ~$200 round trip shipping to Atlantic coast
>
>
He uses new parts. Although he wouldn't devulge his sources, he did
say
> they use new bearings (I forgot the name but they're from
France). They
> use new synchro's although they only replace the bad
ones, they use
> Mitsu seals, they also do the 18 or 25 spline
shafts. He said that you
> cannot replace a small 18 spline shaft
with the larger 25 spline shaft
> since the hole in the case is a
different size. I forgot to ask if the
> shafts they use are of
better quality than the original. I also didn't
> ask if they just
sell parts.
>
> Shipping takes two boxes because of weight. He
said tranny alone is
> about 120 lbs. They use UPS. They put
the tranny in a plastic bag, put
> it in a box, then fill the box with
foam. You are supposed to send back
> the cores in the same
boxes.
>
> He is faxing me some literature as I write this.
Send me your questions
> and I'll phone him again soon.
>
>
Ken,
>
> P.S. Sam, it looks like your warranty company is
instructing your
> mechanic to buy the rebuilt parts and he will just do
the removal &
> re-installation.
>
> --
> How many
roads must a man travel down before he admits he is lost!
>
> Ken
Middaugh
> General Atomics
> San Diego
> (619)
455-4510
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 3 May 1999 21:21:59 -0500
From: "Omar Malik" <ojm@iname.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Brakes
and Heat question
> Check out the rotors and you'll see that there is
only a little
> surface you can
> paint unless you considered
painting the rotors surface (gulp).
> Also the area of
> the
calipers is too small to transfer heat.
just brainstorming ;)
i
thought the rotor discs are sort of "hollow" from the inside to help
air
carry heat away?
couldn't the inside surfaces of the rotor be painted?
(in the middle of the
actual disc, between the braking surfaces. At least
that's what i thought it
looked like last time i had my wheel off. I could be
wrong. please let me
know if i am.
diagraphical (is that a word?)
aid:
rotor as seen from straight ahead, simplified:
||
||
||
\/
__ __
||
||
|| ||
||__||
||--||
||
||
||__||
||--||
|| ||
||__||
||--||
||
||
|| ||
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------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 04 May 1999 00:15:07 -0400
From: Ron Thompson <rtetetet@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Gasoline and Injectors
Well, I can't give you a definitive
answer on the formulation of BP
fuel but I can offer my seat of the pants
experience.
In the KY & Ohio area we have limited quality fuel
choices. In KY we
have what's fondly called reformulated fuel for pollution
reasons. BP
is the major player here. Over the past four cars I drive and
the
common ones we own I find Shell to be the poorest excuse for
gas
available from the big manufacturers. Poor mileage,
mediocre
performance, and plug build up.
BP may be OK for the family
truckster, but both my 93SL and 96 VR4
aren't happy with it. Again poor
mileage and marginal performance
consistency. Haven't pulled the plugs in the
VR4 yet.
The Sunoco runs consistently better, I see very little soot
blowing
out when I hit the power which I did see with a tank of BP. It
costs
more but I don't see much other alternative. Only other players
are
Marathon and Citco.
Ron
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