--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #161
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest         Saturday, April 24 1999         Volume 01 : Number 161




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:04:39 +0200
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Business ethincs!?!? - Apology

I want to apologize to the list (and Accelerated Accessories!) for
unintentionally starting this pissing contest.  I, like many others on
this list, have been frustrated by weeks of contacting various retailers
in the states via Email (too expensive to phone from here) only to be
completely ignored by most, but it wasn't fair to single out Accelerated
Accessories.  In fact, as I said in my original post, they at least were
very prompt about responding to my quotation request, and they have
since gotten back to me about completing the order.

The purpose of my original post was to find out if I should follow
through with my Abex purchase or go with the Pagids using stock calipers
and untreated rotors.  My understanding is that Pagid pads are too
aggressive for untreated rotors, but recent posts indicate otherwise.
As AA's delay in responding to my order request essentially delayed any
purchase commitment, I had time to change my mind based on input from
the list.  I received no input, and now feel obligated to follow through
with AA.

I expect Accelerated Accessories to fill my order promptly and would be
happy to respond to personal Emails asking about my overall experience
with them upon the completion of this order and delivery of the pads.  I
also plan to post my assessment of the Abex pads once they are installed
and I have had a chance to put them to the test on the Autobahn.

Thanx, and again, sorry for the excessive bandwidth consumed by this
thread.
- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews

*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque



>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Matthews [mailto:matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de]
>>Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 11:55 AM
>>To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>>Subject: Re: Team3S: Brakes - My History and Current Status
>>
>>I considered the Pagids but thought they would be too aggressive for the
>>stock rotors.  Not the case?  Please let me know... while Accelerated
>>Accessories was quick to give me a quote on the Abex pads, they don't
>>seem to be interested in taking my money and completing the order.  I
>>can get Pagids locally, I think.


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:41:03 EDT
From: VR4Power@aol.com
Subject: Re:  RE: Team3S: Intake Plenum

In a message dated 4/23/99 9:31:32 AM, bbedell@austin.rr.com wrote:

<<Roger,

You are correct on the runner length.   I am hoping to only reduce the
length about 1" or so.  I am not sure how well this will work, however I am
going to try.

I will include a small velocity stack on the inlet of the runners.
(protruding into the tank about 1/4")  The runner diameter will be 1 3/4"
(44mm)   I am hoping the velocity stack and smoother tubes will keep the
torque range similar to the stock manifold.
I will be port matching the upper piece to the gasket., maybe leave it a
little smaller than the gasket and let the end used finish it to the
individual car.

My plenum will also taper, thus keeping the velocity up.  Any ideas/thoughts
on this would be appreciated.  Inlet will  be 2.75", and downsize to 2
(tube) Throttle body is about 2.5"
8 ports may be hard to do.  I had forgotten about the BOV though.  I will do
what I can.

To keep the price down, I need a better source for the tubing.  I am paying
way too much for tubing.  I hope to sell about 10 units and get a decent
break on the price of tubing. I have not checked the possibility of this yet
though.

Ceramic coating may be an option also. Cost should not exceed about 150.00
for the manifold.

As for the EGR. My reason to remove it is to get the heat away from the
manifold.  I was planning on using the actual valve area for the additional
vacuum ports (to keep them out of site and clean looking)

Spray mounts may be difficult.  Make me a drawing so I can see what you
mean.
> Brad>>

Brad,

Damn then maybe it will make you run 11.8 !!! Haaaa :)

Adam
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:04:36 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Subject: Team3S: Braking, was: Business ethincs!?!? - Apology

Matthews wrote:
snip
> The purpose of my original post was to find out if I should follow
> through with my Abex purchase or go with the Pagids using stock calipers
> and untreated rotors.  My understanding is that Pagid pads are too
> aggressive for untreated rotors, but recent posts indicate otherwise.
> As AA's delay in responding to my order request essentially delayed any
> purchase commitment, I had time to change my mind based on input from
> the list.  I received no input, and now feel obligated to follow through
> with AA.
snip

Does Pagid come in a size for our stock calipers?

The problem with stock rotors is that they warp too quickly.  That means
they are not suitable for extreme braking conditions.

I still would like to see someone who has broken a rotor (Dave or Rich
:))  test the Porterfield cryogenically treated rotors with the Pagid
pads and with stock or (but preferably) upgraded calipers (Hey Rich,
when is your next track event ;) ?).  If they don't break and they don't
warp, this could be the best low cost rotor option for us!  If they
work, that means Brad's kit at about $1570 ($70 more for the Porterfield
rotors than the KVR) would be an extremely awesome and cost effective
brake upgrade for us!

- --
How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he is lost!

Ken Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:11:49 -0400
From: Randy MacAulay <rmacaulay@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Business ethincs!?!? - Apology

    Hi Jim,

    I was wondering the SAME thing!  When I had my 911SC I was a member of PCA and a LOT

    of my partners in crime had GREAT luck with the Pagid brake pads.  If they work as
well on
    out cars with the stock calipers and rotors it would make a terrific, relatively low
cost alternative.
    I would really appreciate it if you would let me know how the combination works out
for you.

    Thanks!
    Randy
    94 VR4
    Profec 'A' running at 1.0 bar
    modified air box with K&N Filiter-charger
   3si #0053

Matthews wrote:

> I want to apologize to the list (and Accelerated Accessories!) for
> unintentionally starting this pissing contest.  I, like many others on
> this list, have been frustrated by weeks of contacting various retailers
> in the states via Email (too expensive to phone from here) only to be
> completely ignored by most, but it wasn't fair to single out Accelerated
> Accessories.  In fact, as I said in my original post, they at least were
> very prompt about responding to my quotation request, and they have
> since gotten back to me about completing the order.
>
> The purpose of my original post was to find out if I should follow
> through with my Abex purchase or go with the Pagids using stock calipers
> and untreated rotors.  My understanding is that Pagid pads are too
> aggressive for untreated rotors, but recent posts indicate otherwise.
> As AA's delay in responding to my order request essentially delayed any
> purchase commitment, I had time to change my mind based on input from
> the list.  I received no input, and now feel obligated to follow through
> with AA.
>
> I expect Accelerated Accessories to fill my order promptly and would be
> happy to respond to personal Emails asking about my overall experience
> with them upon the completion of this order and delivery of the pads.  I
> also plan to post my assessment of the Abex pads once they are installed
> and I have had a chance to put them to the test on the Autobahn.
>
> Thanx, and again, sorry for the excessive bandwidth consumed by this
> thread.
> --
> Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
> matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps ISDN)
> http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
>
> *** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
> http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
> Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
> Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
> K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
> A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
> Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
> Metal Matrix brake pads, custom braided brake lines
> Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
> G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
> 1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Matthews [mailto:matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de]
> >>Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 11:55 AM
> >>To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> >>Subject: Re: Team3S: Brakes - My History and Current Status
> >>
> >>I considered the Pagids but thought they would be too aggressive for the
> >>stock rotors.  Not the case?  Please let me know... while Accelerated
> >>Accessories was quick to give me a quote on the Abex pads, they don't
> >>seem to be interested in taking my money and completing the order.  I
> >>can get Pagids locally, I think.
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:24:00 EDT
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: New Pirelli P7000 Tires 4 sale

A set of 4 Pirelli P7000 in size 225/40/18. Used less then 1 week.
My son's friend is selling these (just wrecked his car)
if anybody can use them. $425. Shipping included
Email me privately
Thanks Arty 91 VR-4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:48:38 +0200
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject: Team3S: mods and effect on HP vs. TORQUE (was: Intake Plenum)

Brad Bedell wrote:
>
> Hey everyone, I am considering making several upper intake plenums for the
> 3000 VR4.
>
> It will look similar to the IMP manifold, and I am sure performance gains
> will be similar (IMP claims 30hp FWIW)

Note that the intake manifold on our cars is a complex and well-designed
system that works well throughout the RPM range (it is even mentioned
specifically in Corky Bell's book Maximum Boost, complete with cutaway
drawing).  As with most mods, it is relatively easy to increase peak
horsepower but this is typically at the expense of torque and overall
drivability.  If improved high-RPM WOT acceleration times is what's
important for some, then perhaps trading torque for horsepower is the
way to go in these cases.  But if drivability and overall flexibility is
the goal, then this mod would steal more low end grunt from an engine
that already suffers from a low compression ratio and considerable turbo
lag.

So what about some of the recently developed mods that improve
performance without such tradeoffs?  We are driving 80s technology and
there are several new developments from which I think we can benefit.

Yesterday I posted a question about VATN turbos.  This seems like a mod
that would increase horsepower AND torque while reducing turbo lag.
That no one has responded with any additional information is hopefully
not a sign that this is just a pipe dream.

Another technology I've been wondering about is variable valve timing.
This seems like another great idea that increases horsepower AND torque,
kind of the next step up from our stock plenums with twin runners.
Anyone know if such systems can be retrofitted to engines such as ours?
These days, high compression, N/A engines with VVT are approaching the
power output of our cars.  What would our engines be like with VVT, VATN
turbos and the appropriate supporting fuel system upgrades?  I suspect
these mods will not be cheap, but all of these little lag-inducing
torque-stealing mods may add up to close to the same!

Back to the plenum idea and similar.  May I suggest that the tradeoffs
of such mods be made very clear to those who may see easy horsepower
advertised but not understand the drawbacks.  More than a few
disappointed N/A folks spent a good chunk of change on free-flow exhaust
systems after being told that they would increase horsepower (which they
do) but who were not told that it would come at a significant sacrifice
in torque.  I hate to see that sort of thing happen to folks.  It's only
fair to tell the whole story, with measurements if possible.

Just my $.02. -Jim
- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews

*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:08:53 -0500
From: "Matt Jannusch" <mattj@fallon.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: mods and effect on HP vs. TORQUE (was: Intake Plenum)

> Another technology I've been wondering about is variable valve timing.
> This seems like another great idea that increases horsepower AND torque,
> kind of the next step up from our stock plenums with twin runners.
> Anyone know if such systems can be retrofitted to engines such as ours?
> These days, high compression, N/A engines with VVT are approaching the
> power output of our cars.  What would our engines be like with VVT, VATN
> turbos and the appropriate supporting fuel system upgrades?  I suspect
> these mods will not be cheap, but all of these little lag-inducing
> torque-stealing mods may add up to close to the same!

Would you gain much by variable valve timing?  I'd think that since the
intake charge is being rammed into the cylinders by the turbos that VVT
wouldn't have as much effect in a turbo car.  I think a cam profile with
longer time open on the intake would help some if you are really trying to
jam a lot of air in there.  Seems like VVT would be difficult to retrofit
onto the motor as well.  Not impossible, just difficult - and the expense
would be high.

- -Matt

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:20:57 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Braking, was: Business ethincs!?!? - Apology

>The problem with stock rotors is that they warp too quickly.  That means
>they are not suitable for extreme braking conditions.  I still would like
to see someone who has broken a rotor (Dave or Rich >:))  test the
Porterfield cryogenically treated rotors with the Pagid
>pads and with stock or (but preferably) upgraded calipers (Hey Rich,
>when is your next track event ;) ?). 

I'm not sure. Got some work to do first. Maybe not until July.
I spoke with an engineer at Performance Friction, and he said:
The pads I have been using were street pads. I should use a race pad.
He does not like slotted or drilled rotors. They act like a cheese grater
and cut pad life
He recommends a stock rotor.
He says cryogenic treatments are good.
He also says -- and here's the kicker -- that the VERY BEST thing we can do
is duct air to the brakes for cooling. This will improve life of  pads
greatly.
He also says all Trans-Am cars use water-injected cooling on street
courses. He says it drops brake temps by 200-300 deg. Just don't (as Roger
says) squirt water directly on the rotors. Instead, move the injector 12-18
in. back in the duct.

So, I am going back to stock rotors with Performance Friction 460-80 (not
full race) pads.
I am also going to seal up my air ducting system to make sure I trap all
the air collected by the scoops.
And I will try to rig up a water injection system into the ducts.
If all that works, I'll save up some money and buy Brad's Porsche calipers.

Of course, I will keep the group posted on my progress, if I have any.

Rich/old poop


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:00:14 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Braking, was: Business ethincs!?!? - Apology

Merritt wrote:
>
> Ken Middaugh wrote:
> >The problem with stock rotors is that they warp too quickly.  That means
> >they are not suitable for extreme braking conditions.  I still would like
> to see someone who has broken a rotor (Dave or Rich >:))  test the
> Porterfield cryogenically treated rotors with the Pagid
> >pads and with stock or (but preferably) upgraded calipers (Hey Rich,
> >when is your next track event ;) ?).
>
> I'm not sure. Got some work to do first. Maybe not until July.
> I spoke with an engineer at Performance Friction, and he said:
> The pads I have been using were street pads. I should use a race pad.
> He does not like slotted or drilled rotors. They act like a cheese grater
> and cut pad life

That is exactly what the slotted rotors are designed for -- to keep a
fresh flat surface on the pad.  I'm not too sure about the crossdrilled
rotors with chamfered holes though.
i.e (here comes some wonderful ASCII art :))
___      ____
      \    /
       |   |
or
|
|
\___
 ___
/
|
|

I wouldn't think they would 'grate' as much (if at all) as the slotted
ones.  I think the benefits of allowing gas to escape thus enhancing
braking would outweigh any negatives providing we can find a high
quality unit that won't break or crack.  After all, Porsche and numerous
other manufacturer use cross drilled rotors as stock equipment (i.e. my
friend's '96 Twin Turbo Porsche).

> He recommends a stock rotor.
> He says cryogenic treatments are good.
> He also says -- and here's the kicker -- that the VERY BEST thing we can do
> is duct air to the brakes for cooling. This will improve life of  pads
> greatly.
> He also says all Trans-Am cars use water-injected cooling on street
> courses. He says it drops brake temps by 200-300 deg. Just don't (as Roger
> says) squirt water directly on the rotors. Instead, move the injector 12-18
> in. back in the duct.
>
> So, I am going back to stock rotors with Performance Friction 460-80 (not
> full race) pads.

I hope you don't mean stock OE Mitsu rotors -- they will warp.  At least
try the Porterfield cryogenically treated rotors.  Without cross
drilling, they should run about $110 each.

> I am also going to seal up my air ducting system to make sure I trap all
> the air collected by the scoops.
> And I will try to rig up a water injection system into the ducts.
> If all that works, I'll save up some money and buy Brad's Porsche calipers.
>

Keep up the good work with the cooling investigation.  Can anyone help
out with a thermocouple solution and modified brake backing plates?  I'd
be willing to contribute a few bucks to Rich's testing :), anyone else?
- --
How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he is lost!

Ken Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 21:22:17 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Braking, pads

> Does Pagid come in a size for our stock calipers?

Yes, the same size fits all years (Blue or the RS-R,orange)
Mikael (US, 296mm rotors) and me (EU, 314mm) are using exactly the same pads.

// Roger
- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
K&N FIPK,Magnecor wires,Blitz DSBC/gauge/Dual Timer,Apexi AFC,HKS SBOV,
ATR DP/ testpipe,Borla Cat-back,OZ Mito2 rims,Yoko AVS-Z1,braided brake lines,
Bremsa brakes,Pagid RS-R pads

Check out: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/3000gt.html

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 21:22:17 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Braking, pads

> Does Pagid come in a size for our stock calipers?

Yes, the same size fits all years (Blue or the RS-R,orange)
Mikael (US, 296mm rotors) and me (EU, 314mm) are using exactly the same pads.

// Roger
- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
K&N FIPK,Magnecor wires,Blitz DSBC/gauge/Dual Timer,Apexi AFC,HKS SBOV,
ATR DP/ testpipe,Borla Cat-back,OZ Mito2 rims,Yoko AVS-Z1,braided brake lines,
Bremsa brakes,Pagid RS-R pads

Check out: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/3000gt.html

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:19:07 -0400
From: RPM Motorsports <rpmmotorsport@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Intake Plenum

If your talking about the last picture in your website. It's the Bozz
Speed car, they created a whole new manifold to support the T67 Turbos
the car utilizes, but there was a lack of clearance which caused the
hood to be remade. The turbo's were the main problem. It's not utilizing
a MAF meter since they are using a VPC and additional controllers, but
they had to pretty much remove accessories like cruise control to
accomodate the piping.

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:35:05 PDT
From: "Chris S." <shadowphantom_1@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Injectors

Hi.  I have a set of 6 RC 560cc injectors.  I didn't really plan on
selling them.  I am between cars right now.  They are just sitting
here in a bag.  I will sell them to you for $475 shipped.  Let me
know.

Chris



>
>Hi,
>
>Does anyone know if the 550cc Nipondenso Injectors for the 88-91
Mazda RX7 will fit a VR4??
>
>Or if anyone have a set of used RC560 to sell, please email me
PRIVATELY!
>
>/Mikael http://www.3000gt.nu
>
>
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm


_______________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 01:11:47 -0500
From: "Todd Schmalzried" <Q11981@email.mot.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Braking, was: Business ethincs!?!? - Apology

So anyway I was thinking about this last night, which is a very dangerous
thing. Someone had suggested using something like a windshield washer setup
to accomplish this. Here's my contribution: use the existing windshield
washers. If you're racing you shouldn't need to run the washers during the
event. Run a second set of lines leading down to the brakes for the water so
they could be switched. Splice a switch into the existing harness which just
runs the washer (instead of washer and wiper like what's there). Everything
you need is already there. You don't need an extra reservoir or pump. I
think our washers hold about a gallon of fluid. I don't know if this would
be enough, but it's a good start.
OK, I'll go back to lurking now.

> He also says all Trans-Am cars use water-injected cooling on street
> courses. He says it drops brake temps by 200-300 deg. Just don't (as Roger
> says) squirt water directly on the rotors. Instead, move the injector 12-18
> in. back in the duct.
>
- --
Todd Schmalzried                    q11981@email.mot.com
- -You "put your 2 cents in" but only get "a penny for your thoughts"
- -Who gets the change? Think about it.  O-
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:52:28 EDT
From: MikeVR4@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Stillen/Brembo replacement rotors

OK, Porterfield needs all kinds of measurements, flange, eye, hole sizes and
numbers, chamfer...Geez, I don't know what is better - Pulling a rotor and
just sending it to them(knocking the car out of commission for
who-knows-how-long) or beating the specs out of Stillen?!

Brad, thanks for the tip-off on the 95+ F-body, I'll see if I can get a look.

George Kuo mentioned he uses the larger 94+ year rotors with the
Stillen/Brembo calipers.  Has anyone else done this and experienced no
problems, besides the clearance with 1st gen. 17" wheels?

Mike Willis
'93 Pearl White VR-4
Next TWS Porsche Education Event -> 22-23 May, Register Now!!!
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:55:19 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Braking, was: Business ethincs!?!? - Apology

At 01:11 AM 4/23/99 -0500, you wrote:
>So anyway I was thinking about this last night, which is a very dangerous
>thing. Someone had suggested using something like a windshield washer setup
>to accomplish this. Here's my contribution: use the existing windshield
>washers. If you're racing you shouldn't need to run the washers during the
>event. Run a second set of lines leading down to the brakes for the water so
>they could be switched. Splice a switch into the existing harness which just
>runs the washer (instead of washer and wiper like what's there). Everything
>you need is already there. You don't need an extra reservoir or pump. I
>think our washers hold about a gallon of fluid. I don't know if this would
>be enough, but it's a good start.

That is more or less what I had in mind. Gotta be careful that both lines
are the same length, or one brake might get more fluid than the other. Also
gotta worry about how to activate it. If we could disable the wiper blades
- -- maybe by pulling a connector -- then the hand control on the steering
column would work. 

I'd also connect to the brake light switch. That way, every time ya hit the
binders, it would spray water. The harder and longer you hit the brakes,
the more water you get.

If it ain't enough, then you could use the hand control to spray some extra
whilst traversing the front straight.

I'm concerned about what happens if I use the normal windshield wiper pump
and control circuitry -- in stock form, it goes through a sequence of
squirting and running the wipers. While I can probably unplug the wipers, I
wonder if it would still go through its standard squirting timing. With a
separate pump and switch, I could control the squirt time more accurately.
I could also position the pump squarely between the wheels to obtain equal
tubing distances.

A little experimentation should solve the problem.

If I can't make the stock system work to satisfaction,  I can buy an entire
system with reservoir and pump from JC Whitney for $12.95. 

I'm still pondering over what to use to squirt water into the ducts. Some
sort of plant mister, someone suggested. I gotta check the local stores and
see what's available.

>OK, I'll go back to lurking now.

All such advice is welcome. None of us has done this before. Thanks for
contributing.

Rich/old poop/Somebody STOP me!
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 05:59:44 -0500
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: mods and effect on HP vs. TORQUE (was: Intake Plenum)

Matthews wrote:

> Yesterday I posted a question about VATN turbos.  This seems like a mod
> that would increase horsepower AND torque while reducing turbo lag.
> That no one has responded with any additional information is hopefully
> not a sign that this is just a pipe dream.

Last I checked over a year ago, there were no VATN turbos with sufficient
airflow to support our engines at high hp levels.
Jack T.

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:04:57 -0500
From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Adventures in braking-1999

Subject: RE: Team3S: Adventures in braking-1999


>So, NONE of you guys ever tried to have the STOCK rotors cryo'ed, to see if
>they would warp or not......


Hey Folks!
Even though I am a retired mechanical engineer with a major in metallurgy,
(from 1958), I have no idea if this is a plausible idea.  My first thought
is
that it might require final machining after the cryo treatment.  Hope
someone
tries this; it would be a winner if it worked!
Regards, ptg

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 20:21:24 -0400
From: William Lynn Larsen <wlarsen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Braking, was: Business ethincs!?!? - Apology

When I was in the citrus business we used a little emitter called
a MicroJet.  They are very cheap and come in a myriad of sizes.

Regards,
Lynn

Merritt wrote:
>
 I'm still pondering over what to use to squirt water into the ducts.
Some
> sort of plant mister, someone suggested. I gotta check the local stores and
> see what's available.
>
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:21:48 -0500
From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Basic brake upgrade

>On a personal note.. I think I should have went straight for the Brembo
>big brake set-up.. I wasted a lot of small money (that added to big
>money!) on trying to upgrade the stock brake system.. Gota love them
>Brembos.. gave me alot more confidence in braking my 2 ton monster..
>
>George Kuo


George-
Do the Brembos not warp?  I don't race (but I do live on a small mountain),
and my OEM rotors have warped severly!  Seems like I got a post from
Jack Tertadian that said the Brembos warp too.  Jack: are you still on the
line?  I bought two new OEM front rotors yesterday, and expect to install
them
early next week.  I don't consider my driving to be as severe as competition
driving, but my OEM rotors quickly went to hell!
Regards, ptg


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:34:26 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Basic brake upgrade

> George-
> Do the Brembos not warp?

George has the Stillen/Brembo brakes.  His Stillen rotors did not last,
so now he
has the Porterfield cross drilled rotors that he seems very happy with.

- --
How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he is lost!

Ken Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 20:37:21 EDT
From: UNCLEDONUT@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Adventures in braking-1999

In a message dated 4/23/99 8:09:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ptgolley@ro.com
writes:

> Subject: RE: Team3S: Adventures in braking-1999


>  >So, NONE of you guys ever tried to have the STOCK rotors cryo'ed, to see
if
>  >they would warp or not......


>  Hey Folks!
>  Even though I am a retired mechanical engineer with a major in metallurgy,
>  (from 1958), I have no idea if this is a plausible idea.  My first thought
>  is
>  that it might require final machining after the cryo treatment.  Hope
>  someone
>  tries this; it would be a winner if it worked!
>  Regards, ptg



Hi there,

  I have access to liquid Nitrogen at work.  If someone could explain this
"cryogenic process" I would be more than happy to try it and report back on
what I find.

- -Dave Rich
'91 R/T TT
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:39:42 -0700
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Team3S: Mist nozzel...Braking

Anything like this will work, there are lots of misting nozzels available in the
Horticulture trade....BUT, make sure you're using absolutely clean, pure, unadulterated
water, as the hole size is veeeeery small and will become plugged with impurities fast.

Best

Darc

William Lynn Larsen wrote:

> When I was in the citrus business we used a little emitter called
> a MicroJet.  They are very cheap and come in a myriad of sizes.
>
> Regards,
> Lynn
>
> Merritt wrote:
> >
>  I'm still pondering over what to use to squirt water into the ducts.
> Some
> > sort of plant mister, someone suggested. I gotta check the local stores and
> > see what's available.
> >
>



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:53:19 -0500
From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Basic brake upgrade

>--- Andrew Clark <chemist1@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>On a personal note.. I think I should have went straight for the Brembo
>big brake set-up.. I wasted a lot of small money (that added to big
>money!) on trying to upgrade the stock brake system.. Gota love them
>Brembos.. gave me alot more confidence in braking my 2 ton monster..

All-
Are you addressing only the front pads on the VR-4?  That seems to be
my only warped rotor problem, but I'm not sure.

Regards, ptg

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 20:10:58 -0500
From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 550cc injectors on a 96VR4

>Has anyone installed aftermarket injectors on an OBDII VR4/TTStealth ?


Hi All-
Can anyone tell me how to determine whether or not I have OBD-I, or
OBD-II on my 1995 VR-4 Mitsu? 
Regards, ptg

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:49:29 -0700
From: "james berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Mist nozzel...Braking

>Anything like this will work, there are lots of misting nozzels available
in the
>Horticulture trade....BUT, make sure you're using absolutely clean, pure,
unadulterated
>water, as the hole size is veeeeery small and will become plugged with
impurities fast.


A cheap  fuel filter should suffice to keep particulates out ---- distilled
water would prevent  buildup of deposits.
The question I have concerns water pressure --- most misters want to see
50 to 60 pounds of pressure. I doubt that a windshield washer provides
anywhere near that kind of pressure!!

         Jim Berry

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:08:15 -0500
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Basic brake upgrade

"Paul T. Golley" wrote:

> Do Brembos not warp?  I don't race;
> my OEM rotors warped severly!  Seems I got post from
> Jack Tertadian said Brembos warp.  Jack: are you still on the
> line?  I don't drive severe competition, but my OEM rotors quickly went to hell!

Paul:
Yes, the Stillen Brembo fronts with Pagid Blues warped for me after 3 x 2-day
track events, and alot of street driving.  I have never had them turned,
so I will be doing that next.
Jack

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 21:18:57 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Basic brake upgrade

>Do the Brembos not warp?  I don't race (but I do live on a small mountain),
>and my OEM rotors have warped severly!  <snip> > I don't consider my
driving to be as severe as competition
>driving, but my OEM rotors quickly went to hell!
>Regards, ptg
>

Your rotors and pads might be getting hot because of (1) where you live and
(2) how you brake. I suspect you heat up your pads ferociously because you
PROBABLY are on the brakes constantly, applying light to medium pressure.
This is the worst possible kind of braking, and will burn up the pads and
smoke the rotors worse than racing does.  

I remember driving down the road from Wiamea Canyon on Kawai in a rental.
Signs said "descend the mountain in a lower gear." Poo, I thought, what do
they know?  Halfway down, I had to find a place to pull off and let the
brakes on the rental cool, because they were smoking. Guess they knew what
they were talking about!

Tis far better to get on and get off them quickly, as in racing. Of course,
this is virtually impossible to do on the street.

You might be an ideal candidate for air cooling ducts to the front brakes.
Fortunately, this is easily and cheaply done.


Rich/old poop/Somebody Stop Me!
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:45:19 -0500
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 550cc injectors on a 96VR4

"Paul T. Golley" wrote:

> >Has anyone installed aftermarket injectors on an OBDII VR4/TTStealth ?
> Can anyone tell me whether I have OBD-I or
> OBD-II on 1995 VR-4 Mitsu?

1995 Federal car should be OBD I still.
In 1996 they went to left bank front, left bank rear, right bank front, right bank
rear O2 sensors, and added a barometric pressure sensor.  These are the OBD
II cars.

The VPC does work on 1994-95 cars which have the 4-plug Molex connector
to the ECU (rather than the 3-plug version as on 91-93 cars, and which comes
with the VPC as delivered by HKS).  There are modifications to the wiring to
make it so.  Vineet Singh's CD ROM manual came in most handy here!
Since I needed a VR4 that actually runs, for daily driving and winter,
now that my '93 is (like many experiment-mobiles) not running half the time, I
bought a '94 last month so had reason to make my '93's VPC work on a 94+.
It works fine, with my 720cc injectors    :)  and I like the stereo way better,
and those bigger brakes...

Apparently, from what Mike says, the VPC will work on OBD II cars too; the
barometric pressure/O2 sensor change seems a non-issue.

BTW, the 94+ are a LITTLE faster than 91-93.  I got my 94 to go 12.6/107 its
first outing, with only a fish-valve bleeder and gutted main cat,  K&N.
Stock exhaust.  That is about 1-2mph/.1-.2 faster; my 93 went 12.7/107 but
had Borla exhaust also. I think the Borla was worth the 1-2 mph and .1-.2...
The cars weigh about the same.  Interestingly, the 94 seems to go much
faster than it should...SOMEtimes.  On Vericom it has gone 12.1-12.2  114-116 at
night 2AM (cold) when I do my Vericom runs...but at track was hotter/humid.
Vericom at night/cold on my car usually reads faster than track DAY.

The knock sensor kicking in/different timing maps REALLY makes a big
difference, and I wonder if the 94+ 12psi computers were "mapped out" to a higher
boost range than the 91-93, which only were supposed to goto 9.7psi stock.
That may be partly why 94+ are a little faster with most all else the same; the 6 speed
does have tighter ratio spacing but first gear is about exactly the same.

Merry Xmas  ;)
Jack Tertadian



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 20:05:50 -0700
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Team3S: Basic brake upgrade

Merritt wrote:

> You might be an ideal candidate for air cooling ducts to the front brakes.
> Fortunately, this is easily and cheaply done.
>

Rich...you're going to have to take some pictures of your setup for the Team. That's all
there is to it mate. :-)   A picture is worth a thousand words, and saves  a kazillion
questions on discriptions not visualized adequately.

Best


Darc

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 21:27:45 -0700
From: "james berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: tranny leak

>I did.  The part you need is this one  it's only like
>http://www.concentric.net/~Bcdmad/tranny1.jpg  $4-$5 from Tallahassee Mits.
>
>I couldn't figure out how it got out ... and I still can't figure out how
>it goes in.  I put it in Backwards and it works.  I'll be taking out the
>tranny soon for a new throwout bearing and will fix it the right way.



Just an afterthought--- as I recall you said that an internal bolt
prevented the disk/stem plug from going in all the way. Is the
allen head bolt tight or has it loosened and backed out preventing
the insertion of the plug.

   Jim berry



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 21:43:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: George Kuo <amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Basic brake upgrade

- --- "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com> wrote:

> George-
> Do the Brembos not warp?  I don't race (but I do
> live on a small mountain),
> and my OEM rotors have warped severly!  Seems like I
> got a post from
> Jack Tertadian that said the Brembos warp too.

Well.. from all these brake discussion I think we concluded that most
all rotors warp.. what I meant to say is that i like the stopping power
Brembos gave me.. as for the rotors.. I rather use cheaper pre-treated
rotors from Porterfield...

George

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Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 08:37:53 EDT
From: Dskull@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Brakes - Update on Brad's Kit

After 160+ racing laps at Summit Point using stock Wagner 1995 front rotors,
Pagid Orange pads, and Brad's modified Brembo/Porsche calipers ;

1) Used 1/16" of pad. Full pad thickness is 1/2".
2) No warping. Rotors look good. Unlike previous 93 stock rotors using
Perfomance Friction  pads which would either warp or develop heat cracks.
3) Bleed brakes. Very little discoloration on fronts. Rear's were just a
little darker. Suspect very little rear brake used.
4) This is without any cooling ducts.

FWIW watching Tran-Am race. Car had front torn up. They mentioned that they
needed to keep the cooling ducts and FANS in tack. Sounded like they used
high speed fans IN the cooling ducts.

Will update status again after next event

Dave 93 VR4 - Brake, Brake,Brake,Gas,Gas,Gas. Instructors can be so
repetitive :) :)
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 08:43:38 -0400
From: "Meyer" <meyer2@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Braking, was: Business ethincs!?!? - Apology

We did exactly this to spray the intercoolers when racing. It works.
Frank
www.AcceleratedAccessories.com
- -----Original Message-----
From: Todd Schmalzried <Q11981@email.mot.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Friday, April 23, 1999 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Braking, was: Business ethincs!?!? - Apology


>So anyway I was thinking about this last night, which is a very dangerous
>thing. Someone had suggested using something like a windshield washer setup
>to accomplish this. Here's my contribution: use the existing windshield
>washers. If you're racing you shouldn't need to run the washers during the
>event. Run a second set of lines leading down to the brakes for the water
so
>they could be switched. Splice a switch into the existing harness which
just
>runs the washer (instead of washer and wiper like what's there). Everything
>you need is already there. You don't need an extra reservoir or pump. I
>think our washers hold about a gallon of fluid. I don't know if this would
>be enough, but it's a good start.
>OK, I'll go back to lurking now.
>
>> He also says all Trans-Am cars use water-injected cooling on street
>> courses. He says it drops brake temps by 200-300 deg. Just don't (as
Roger
>> says) squirt water directly on the rotors. Instead, move the injector
12-18
>> in. back in the duct.
>>
>--
>Todd Schmalzried                    q11981@email.mot.com
>-You "put your 2 cents in" but only get "a penny for your thoughts"
>-Who gets the change? Think about it.  O-
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

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Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 06:44:33 PDT
From: "Chris S." <shadowphantom_1@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Injectors

Sorry about the 2 public posts.  It was an accident.

Thanks,
Chris


>
>Hi.  I have a set of 6 RC 560cc injectors.  I didn't really plan on
>selling them.  I am between cars right now.  They are just sitting
>here in a bag.  I will sell them to you for $475 shipped.  Let me
>know.
>
>Chris
>
>
>
>>
>>Hi,
>>
>>Does anyone know if the 550cc Nipondenso Injectors for the 88-91
>Mazda RX7 will fit a VR4??
>>
>>Or if anyone have a set of used RC560 to sell, please email me
>PRIVATELY!
>>
>>/Mikael http://www.3000gt.nu
>>
>>
>>
>>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________
>Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
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Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:40:23 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Basic brake upgrade

>Rich...you're going to have to take some pictures of your setup for the
Team. That's all
>there is to it mate. :-)   A picture is worth a thousand words, and saves
a kazillion
>questions on discriptions not visualized adequately.

My son has a digital camera. We'll take a couple of shots and make them
available.
May take a week or two to figure out how to do it, though.


Rich/old poop/Somebody Stop Me!

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 14:08:56 -0400
From: "Meyer" <meyer2@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Twin Turbo Chargers For Sale from 3000GT VR-4

I will give you $150 for them.  Let me know.

Matt
www.AcceleratedAccessories.com
- -----Original Message-----
From: Brent W <bwiscombe@email.msn.com>
To: Stealth-3000GT Team3S List <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>; JYTurbo
Email List <jyturbo@onelist.com>; diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu
<diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>; blown@f-body.org <blown@f-body.org>
Date: Thursday, April 22, 1999 11:21 AM
Subject: Team3S: Twin Turbo Chargers For Sale from 3000GT VR-4


>Hello,
>I have for sale the two turbos that came on the factory twin turbo 3.0
liter
>V-6 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 (the brother to the Dodge Stealth). I only have
>the turbos themselves without any other items. These are the TDO4 series
>turbochargers by Mitsubishi.
>
>These two turbos were working perfectly when removed prior to converting
the
>car into a race car. The car only had about 15,000 miles on it at the time
>when the turbos were removed for the conversion, so these turbos are gently
>used. These turbos have the built-in wastegates which make using them on
>turbo conversions so much easier and much more compact. These turbos have
>fittings to attach a lubricating oil inlet and outlet supply line, as well
>as fittings to attach an engine coolant inlet and outlet supply line, if
you
>want to use coolant to help keep the turbo bearings cooler.
>
>These turbos would work really great on any 2.2-3.5 liter twin turbo engine
>setup whether it be a V-6 or a straight 4 cylinder engine. Or you could use
>a single turbo for any 1.0-2.0 liter single turbo engine setup, maybe a
>turbocharged Mazda Miata or Harley Davidson?!!!
>
>Please contact me if you have a desire to purchase these turbos from me.
>I will sell them to the best offer.
>
>Thank you,
>Brent Wiscombe
>bwiscombe@msn.com
>Mesa, AZ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

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