--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #159
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest         Thursday, April 22 1999         Volume 01 : Number 159




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:53:49 -0500
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Brake List Columns!

WHY did that last message show up crappy?  I had all the columns closely
spaced yet in order, not with 30 spaces between words and scattergrammed
all over the place.  Others have had theirs this way too, it is annoying
and a detriment to our list!  Maybe someone can help us on this to avoid
problems in future?  This is not a car topic but does impact on the
quality of list messages.  Sorry to those who think it unimportant.
Jack Tertadian

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 07:31:33 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: High 11's w/ stock Turbos? -Reply

The "13" of the 13G refers to the bore diameter of the impeller.  The 13G is
definitely bigger than the 9B.  The exhaust housing of a 13G is slightly
larger than the 9B, as well, and have slightly different a/r ratio however
small.  I doubt it would be enough to account for 50 HP though without
additional boost, but the 13G is capablke of holding much more boost than
the 9B.


Barry

> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> > The "stock" turbos for the overseas (to the continental US) are 13g's.
> > therefore the turbos are quite a bit larger than the US version
> turbos.  I
> > suspect the 13g's will produce at least 50hp more than the
> 9b's. Which would
> > be enough to get into the 11's.
>
> No, no way, look again at our dyno sessions and you'll see a
> bigger power in the
> mid-band and more tourque. The torque then helps to get a faster
> 1/4 mile time
> but no hp. If I had done the dyno with summer tires (I was too
> stupid and we
> almost glow up the winter tires) then the results would show a
> better power
> holding in the higher area. but that's it. Also I don't think the
> 13 is really
> bigger but it has a different design of the compressor wheel.
>
> Regards,
> Roger

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:03:50 EDT
From: Dskull@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Brakes - My History  and Current Status

Warning VERY long post. I am the Dave that Brad Bardell mentioned in his
post. I have a 1993 VR4 with K&N, boost controller and gutted cats. During
1998 started racing. Prior to first event installed steel brake lines, Motul
600 fluid , Performance friction Z rated pad, GAB struts, and used stock
rotors and tires. High speed course at Pocono, 3.3 miles using 1/2 of NASCAR
track. 125 in front straight, 157 in back straight. Pads lasted 2 days.
Serious fade. After trying different techniques learned to either be ON the
brakes or OFF, no light braking then hard braking. Fade was reduced but would
return after a few hot laps. Did a few laps slower to cool then down, then
back to hot laps. Next phase, get better pads. Went with Performance friction
83 compound. Poncono North course, 1.5 miles, 125 in front straight. First
few laps brakes felt great. On lap 5 warped rotors. Next went with
Performance friction 93 pads. Less aggressive than the 83's. Turned rotors to
correct warp. Bought a set of Yoko A0032R's. North course again at Pocono. 
First day everything stayed together. No fade, no warp. Second day during 3rd
session warped rotors. Most likely because now I was learning course and
generating more speed into braking zones, plus the added traction from the
Yoko's. Next I got cross drilled rotors from Brake Warehouse. These are Bradi
rotors made in Italy. 3 laps and cracked right rotor clean through from
outside of rotor to one of the x-drilled holes. Saw other major cracks
starting in different locations. Replaced rotors with Bradi slotted. These
lasted for 3 events before warping. I concluded from all of this that it's
guess work at best to get the pad / rotor combination that would result in a
setup with little to no fade by using an aggressive enough pad without
overheating the rotors. BTW, I remove the backing plates before my first
event. Broke open the piggy bank and ordered Brad Bardell's setup. Using
stock 17" wheels the clearance on the calipers is really tight. Pagid Orange
pads. Mounted up the new G-Force R1's. Installed Ground Control's coil over
setup on my existing GAB's. Running 650 lbs in front and 500 in rear. Car is
2.3 inches lower than stock. Installed a rear shock tower from road race
engineering. April 16th, Lime Rock Park. 1.5 mile course. Front straight
speeds of 125. Back section of track around 80-85. Air temp. 45 degree's.
COLD track. After a few slow laps to build up some tire temp ( not much) and
getting used to new suspension, started to gradually increase lap speeds.
Side note, new suspension has eliminated pushing in corners. Car is very
neutral now :)  Ok back to the brakes. Lap 15 on back short straight 80 mph
setting up for right hander. Hard on brakes. SNAP, followed by a immediate
right hand turn. Thought something locked up in the right front. Saved the
car in the corner, limped back to the pits. Left front rotor snapped. Sheared
the hub away from the rotor surface. Thought about the power slot post last
year. Done for the day :(.  Picked up a set of stock rotors (Wagner). Drove
car around to season rotors. Let them cool, then beat the hell out of them on
a local highway. 90-20 mph stops. Did about 30 of these in a row. No
problems. Had the G-force tires still on the car. Drove to West Viriginia on
Sunday to Summit Point for a 2 day event. Summit Point is a 2.5 mile
technical course, 130 in front straight. Several area's of 80 mph into
braking zones. 9 turns total, most are right hander's. Needless to say I was
VERY tentative on the brakes. As my confindence returned speed increased. No
fade, no bang. Throughout the day did around 80 laps. On Tuesday I started to
get more aggressive after studying every area of runoff just in case. After
44 laps I cound not get the brakes to fade, not even once. Mid afternoon had
a instructor friend of mine ride with me. By the end of 20 laps, we were 4-5
seconds faster than I had been previous. Now we are carrying mucho speed into
the braking zones ( 20-25 mph more). Now I am full on the brakes and a few
times had front wheels lock up briefly. Awesome pucker factor of about 9.
Side note, On Tuesday morning went to go out with the exact same tire setup
as I left it on Monday. Wicked vibration in front end. Left front G-Force
tire and become out of round by 1/4 in. Tread was even all the way around. No
one could explain how this happened. No spare, so I put it on the right rear
and lowered the pressure and reduced that shocks dampening. Could still feel
it at high speed, but was controllable. After 150 + laps the pads look great.
Very little wear. Rotors are fine. So my conclusions so far are 1) You cannot
generate anywhere near the braking force on the street that you can on the
track mostly due to the grip of the hot G-force tires and getting the brakes
up to optimum temp. I think this is why the KVR rotors did not snap while I
was testing it on the street. 2) Stock rotors worked fine. Question is, do
the slotted portion of the KVR rotors contribute to higher braking forces, or
do they just serve to clear the brake dust build up between the pads and
rotors ?  3) The rotors in Brad's kit are the 94-up stock size. These are
about 5/8 larger in diameter than the 91-93's. I think perhaps the increased
sweep area of the caliper's contribute more to perfomance than the rotor
size. This is pure speculation on my part. 4) ANY comparisons between brake
systems must take into account where system was used. Track vs street. I
really don't think you can compare system realiabilty if they are not used on
the track. Please feel free to comment, correct, or just add your 3 cents.

Dave - 93 VR4 - Got Brakes ?????????
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:09:54 -0400
From: Gavin Wallis <wallisg@mwaa.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Brembo $2g kit, was: Re: Basic brake upgrade -Reply

A few suggestions:

1) Incorporate a rating system: 1-10. It can be averages of all user input
or something like that...it is hard to understand what you mean when you
say Porterfield has a "shorter" life.

2) Include the crap pieces too...i.e. powerslot. This gives people the good
ole process of elimination + the ability to choose. Maybe the Powerslots
get real low ratings for x-cross, but get high ratings for low speed
grip...thus someone who just drives on the street and likes to see his
0-60 times will figure out to save the money and buy some poweslots.

3) These are just some categories:

PADS :
Material
Size
Life
Dust
Cost
Cold Friction
Hot Friction
Noise
Rotor Wear
Price
Suggested Use
Cust Satisfaction (ok ok...a little influence here from tirerack :))

ROTORS:
Material
Size
Weight
Low speed stops over stock rating
High speed stops over stock rating
Race structural integrity
Street structural integrity
Price
Rust?

KITS:

Bolton?
All of the above categories
List members experiences
etc...

Like I said, we NEED a web page for this, or at least a database.

Gavin
'94 Black VR-4

>>> xwing <xwing@execpc.com> 04/21/99 07:39pm >>>
It seems we need a heirarchy of braking systems available to our cars,
from best to
least, and cost/features of each.  I will start one, everybody else can
modify it, add
brands, change order, it is just a start based on my limited knowledge,
off  top of head

(NOT researched, please correct errors, Roger and Brad et al!) (Brad I
don't know
if yours or Bremsa is better, let's hash this out to the best of our ability!)
PAD SIZE is important, if can get this info--great!  One reason my
Stillen/Brembos
are so much better than stock is the PADS are way
longer/wider/THICKER...

From best to "worst":

Front Brakes
        Brand            size                            cost         special
features/Questions

1)  AP Racing         14"  6-piston system   ?$6000     WHERE to get, KVR?
is bolton?
2)  Bremsa              12.6"  (322mm)           ?$           Aluminum hats
?Brembo
caliper
3)  Brad Bedell        12.6"  (322mm)             $1500    Steel hats, Brembo
caliper
4)  Stillen/Brembo    12.2"                            $2000    Steel hats  Braided
lines
5)  ?Baer Racing      ?                                  ?          No idea/should be
called!
6)  ?MovIt                ?                                 ?           No Idea, is it
BOLTON?
6)  Mitsubishi 94+     12.1"             boneyard cheap    better than 91-93
7)  Mitsubishi 91-93  11.2"                    "       cheap


Rear Brakes:

1)  Bremsa              ?size                         ?cost         Roger mentioned
them; details?
2)  94+                    ?size    dual piston      cheap       bigger than 91-93
3)  91-93                  ?10.1" single piston    cheap

Brake pads:  (This may just be a list of features/experiences, there is
balance between
longevity, friction, dust--which do YOU choose as most important etc?

1)  Pagid Blue                      last LONG, moderate dust, expensive,
average
friction
2)  Porterfield R4                 last shorter, alot of nasty dust, brake
great/high
friction
3)  Performance Friction Z    last long, mod. dust, mod. friction (I didn't
RACE these)
3)  Mitsu Stock 91-93           Not Recommended For Roadracing;  little dust
though

I do not trust crossdrilled rotors yet, nor do I NOW trust slotted rotors
based on the
catastrophic failures suffered in use--you FIRST need to be able to
TRUST your
brakes, at LEAST that they won't explode on you...

Hope this is useful as a starter list!  Add/modify/change away!   Call
places, get info!

Jack Tertadian

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http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:18:53 +0200
From: Roger Gerl <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Brembo $2g kit, was: Re: Basic brake upgrade

Jack,

Very good start and I will place this information onto a page on my site for
later use for everyone (if this is ok four anyone). I do have almost every link
to information pages about the pages and can paste some pictures too.

> 2)  Bremsa              12.6"  (322mm)

Any disc size is possible. One call and they can do it as the hub is always the
same for all cars even with ap, Brembo or whatever calipers.

> 6)  MovIt    No Idea, is it BOLTON?

Yes, they have a kit available. 17" wheels are a must then (of course)

> 6)  Mitsubishi 94+     boneyard cheap    better than 91-93

I haven't found any 3000GT / Stealth on any boneyard in Switz. and Germany :(

> 1)  Bremsa   Roger mentioned them; details?

Yes, will provide them this evening.

> 1)  Pagid Blue   last LONG, moderate dust, expensive, average

It's mabye good to provide real prices too.

Again, if this is ok for you I gather the information and place it onto my
pages.

Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:26:46 -0400
From: Jason Barnhart <phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Team3S: Shifting points/rev limiter...

  Hey, I posted a message a couple days ago and haven't received a single resopnse.  I
was racing my car and noticed that after I shifted into the next gear it felt like a
slug and wouldn't build appropriate boost.  This was done while speed shifting shortly
before the rev limiter.  I'm thinking that it would hit the limiter momentarily causing
the poor acceleration in the next gear.  I couldn't feel it hit the limiter at all, and
I was just kinda wondering if the limiter might cause such a thing to happen.  My
fastest time was done with lift throttle shifting.

thanks,
Jason

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:26:17 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Brakes - My History  and Current Status

At 11:03 AM 4/21/99 EDT, you wrote:
>Warning VERY long post. I am the Dave that Brad Bardell mentioned in his
>post. I have a 1993 VR4 with K&N, boost controller and gutted cats.

I take it that your successful setup is:
Brad's Porsche caliper and brake kit
Pagid pads
Stock (!!) rotors.

Did I get all this correct?
No fade? And the pads last a long time?
Ducting?

Sounds like this might be the hot ticket.

Rich/old poop


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:29:05 -0400
From: Gavin Wallis <wallisg@mwaa.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: High 11's w/ stock Turbos? -Reply

>>> Roger Gerl <robby@swissonline.ch> 04/21/99 03:50am >>>
>Furthermore, the less boost the better the milage and the better the
>result in tests :) Interestingly, my milage went up after increasing boost
>;-)

Makes sense to me...turbos use what otherwise would be wasted
energy...the perpetual machine :)

> BTW, Gavin Wallis mentioned that it is pointless to make a stock
> turbo'd 3000GT run 11's b/c it would cost $10k to gut it and put
> slicks and a rollcage on it.
>It depends on the rules. I learned from people that when dialing in and
>you give em a low 12 they only allow you to run with a roll cage
>installed. But you are right, I think high 11s are possible with less than
>10k.

Ok, could someone tell me the prices of rollcage + installation...maybe i'm
just totally retarded. I believed it to be from $5000 and up for a light,
strong cage. Then add  $1200 susp. mods, $2000 light wheels, $1000
slicks, totaling: $9200 w/out labor and shipping.

Gavin
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:42:36 -0700
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Shifting points/rev limiter...

Jason...

Sounds like you're driving it hard. Slipping clutch? Fouled plugs? Loose
vacuum line? Leaking Y-pipe?

I don't think there should be any relationship between your symptoms
(failure to build boost) and your rev limiter. My experience with the rev
limiter is that it cuts the spark, feeling like misfire, but recovers as
soon as I shift and get the revs back down. We really shouldn't need to
shift much past 7K rpm to keep it in the power band for the next gear (I'm
talking 2nd gen with a six speed), but my solution was to have G-force
remove the rev limiter completely.

Looking forward...Chris

1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/HKS Super Flo intake, TEC 15G turbos, bored
and polished throttle body, RC 560cc injectors, HKS fuel pump, GReddy PRofec
A boost controller, G-force ECU upgrade, HKS SBOV, custom intercoolers,
Predator dry cell battery, Magnecore 8.5mm wires, NGK double platinum plugs
gapped at .030", ATR downpipe and test pipe, GReddy catback exhaust, GReddy
turbo timer, Eibach 1" drop progressive springs)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jason Barnhart [mailto:phnxgld@erols.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 8:27 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Shifting points/rev limiter...

Hey, I posted a message a couple days ago and haven't received a single
resopnse.  I
was racing my car and noticed that after I shifted into the next gear it
felt like a
slug and wouldn't build appropriate boost.  This was done while speed
shifting shortly
before the rev limiter.  I'm thinking that it would hit the limiter
momentarily causing
the poor acceleration in the next gear.  I couldn't feel it hit the limiter
at all, and
I was just kinda wondering if the limiter might cause such a thing to
happen.  My
fastest time was done with lift throttle shifting.

thanks,
Jason

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:52:42 -0700
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: High 11's w/ stock Turbos? -Reply

Gavin...

Check the archives. There were a couple threads about roll bars & roll cages
in the last two months. Seems like the NHRA setup was less than the $5K
you're quoting. Keep in mind that a six point roll cage is heavy (~ 300
lbs?). You'll need to remove a LOT of things even to get back to the stock
weight after you've added one.

However, you're going to need that money anyway. I REALLY doubt, no matter
how much weight you ditch, that you can make it into the 11s with a bone
stock engine. I don't see any $$$ allocated for boost control, injectors,
fuel pump, etc. Even if you keep the 9Gs (and I still don't understand why
it matters), there's still a bunch of money to get the rest of the air/fuel
delivery system up to the performance level required to hit the 11s.

BTW...this is only my opinion, I'd love to have you prove me wrong.

Looking forward...Chris

1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/HKS Super Flo intake, TEC 15G turbos, bored
and polished throttle body, RC 560cc injectors, HKS fuel pump, GReddy PRofec
A boost controller, G-force ECU upgrade, HKS SBOV, custom intercoolers,
Predator dry cell battery, Magnecore 8.5mm wires, NGK double platinum plugs
gapped at .030", ATR downpipe and test pipe, GReddy catback exhaust, GReddy
turbo timer, Eibach 1" drop progressive springs)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Gavin Wallis [mailto:wallisg@mwaa.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 8:29 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: High 11's w/ stock Turbos? -Reply
<snip>

Ok, could someone tell me the prices of rollcage + installation...maybe i'm
just totally retarded. I believed it to be from $5000 and up for a light,
strong cage. Then add  $1200 susp. mods, $2000 light wheels, $1000
slicks, totaling: $9200 w/out labor and shipping.

Gavin
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:52:58 EDT
From: LotoBoost@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: VPC --> 550cc injectors on a 96VR4

All,

    About the debate on 550cc/560cc/720cc injectors on the 2nd Gen. Stealth
and VR4s, NO PROBLEM!  We've been running them on our cars for a while now,
and haven't run into any problems.

At least, to run the 550cc injectors an A'pexi AFC is necessary.  The problem
with the AFC is that it needs to be leaned near -30% across the board or the
2nd. Gen Stealth/VR4s tend to run extremely rich.  Another problem I've seen
(and experienced) is that because the AFC only adjusts the stock fuel curve
(no map capabilities) at certain boost levels the car can experience pretty
severe lean conditions.  For example, very commonly on the 2nd. Gens with the
AFC, you'll notice when the gas is pressed down significantly the fuel is
actually taken OUT of the car (as the 02's head down towards Zero) and then a
split second later the fuel is properly added.

Another option available, and a much better option, would be to run a VPC. 
I've been installing custom VPC's on the 2nd. Gen. for a while now and am
glad to report they work great (to the extent I am considering selling my TRE
MASC - which was another option for us 2nd. Geners that never got out of the
development stages).

The VPC's are superior to the AFC's for several reasons.  First, fuel
delivery.  The VPC uses a MAP sensor to help determine how much fuel the car
should receive.  That is better than the AFC because the Stealth/VR4 won't
experience the awkward lean conditions that the AFC experiences under certain
loads.

Second, the VPC's are available with a different chip for those who run
larger injectors.  The 550cc chip we use on the 2nd. Gen's idles like stock,
and will run good mixtures with 13/15G turbos without a GCC.  For those who
run larger injectors (ie. 720cc) a GCC is available which will lean out the
fuel mixture.

A third advantage of the VPC over the AFC is the lack of a mass-air meter. 
The VPC eliminates the stock mass-air meter and, therefore, air can get to
the turbos easier.  When I went from the stock mass-air meter in my 1994
Stealth turbo to the 83mm air-meter I could fell a difference in power.  I
estimate I picked up a good 25hp (with 15G's) by doing away with the stock
air meter!

While we are talking about new mods, another mod we've found to work well are
the MSD DIS 4 ignitions.  We've run as high as .037 plug gap at 22psi on
Stealth/VR4s without any spark blow-out.  If we by-pass the MSD the same car
wouldn't run more than 18psi before the hesitation ruined our fun.  The only
problem with the DIS 4 is that it won't work on the Stealth/VR4 alone.  It
requires a custom tack adapter kit which we're making available with VR4
specific directions to simplify install.

Before I go, I'd like to thank my friend Joe Cannella who let us
test/pioneree the OBD-11 VPC and MSD on his beautiful Purple 1996 3000GT VR4!
 If I can get my hands on a scanner I'll post the pics we have of his car and
the install of the VPC and MSD.

Hope this helps,
TTYLater,
Mike
1994 Stealth tt
11.4@122mph
www.AlteredAtmosphere.com


 






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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:50:22 -0600
From: Andrew Brilliant <andrewb@infowest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Brembo $2g kit, was: Re: Basic brake upgrade

Here is an Idea for helping to cool the brakes.  I realize this would be a small help
however this is going to be _Real_ cheap.  I don't know about the mechanics of this so
if this doesn't work forgive me.  Heat sinks which are used to cool CPU's in computers
are actually very effective, and 2" x2" roughly sqaure of the material costs abou $0.50
What about something like this attached to the Caliper with heat conductor to help cool
this off.  Even if it is a small amount, if you used 4 of em only $2 for the whole
thing.  Maybe the key here may be a few small, inexpensive things, along with a solution
to the Pad/Rotor issue to eliminate our fade problem.



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:14:14 -0400
From: Gavin Wallis <wallisg@mwaa.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Chrome Exhaust Tips -Reply

Ansa is also good and cheap...a couple starnet.net list members have
them...

Gavin
'94 Black VR-4

>>> <SoCoDrnkr@aol.com> 04/20/99 09:39pm >>>
hey bro if you want some fat tips I'd go borla, pacesetter, or monza big
bore.  If you want the stock look I am getting a new exhaust on my 91 ES
soon
(hopefully).  Keep in touch w/ me and i'll try the same.
Dan
91 ES
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:58:08 EDT
From: Dskull@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Re: Brad's Brake Setup

You wrote;
I take it that your successful setup is:
Brad's Porsche caliper and brake kit
Pagid pads
Stock (!!) rotors.

Yes, this is the setup. Brad is sending me a replacement for the
snapped KVR rotor. I think I will have the one that did not snap AND the new
one magnafluxed to check them for intergrity. Stock Wagner rotors seem to
hold up fine so far. Keep in mind that the setup is new, only 150 racing
laps. I have not pulled the pads out yet to really check them, but visual
inspection shows maybe 1/8 - 1/4 pad used. I will let you know. Keep in mind
this setup WILL
squeak on the street until they are warmed up. Clearance on the calipers in
tight. 1/16 in in some area's. I also am still using the stock rear 1993
rotors and pads. Will upgrade to 94+ calipers and pads shortly to help take
some braking away from the front to keep weight shift down a little. In the
short time I have used this setup my confidence has gone WAY up, no more
wondering if the next braking zone is where fade will occur. I talking some
serious LATE braking,  harness biting into chest,  high pucker factor. Don't
have any cooling ducts, but will put in something shortly just to bring temps
down a bit.

Dave 93 VR4 - Watkins Glen June 31 + July 1st :) :) :) :) :) :)
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:56:21 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Brembo $2g kit, was: Re: Basic brake upgrade

At 09:50 AM 4/21/99 -0600, you wrote:
>Here is an Idea for helping to cool the brakes.  I realize this would be a
small help
>however this is going to be _Real_ cheap.  I don't know about the
mechanics of this so
>if this doesn't work forgive me. 

I learned in the think tanks that EVERY idea is good.

Heat sinks which are used to cool CPU's in computers
>are actually very effective, and 2" x2" roughly sqaure of the material
costs abou $0.50
>What about something like this attached to the Caliper with heat conductor
to help cool
>this off.  Even if it is a small amount, if you used 4 of em only $2 for
the whole
>thing.  Maybe the key here may be a few small, inexpensive things, along
with a solution
>to the Pad/Rotor issue to eliminate our fade problem.
>
Maybe Andrew is on to something.
We are limited to attaching stuff to the inner part of the caliper because
everything else is too close to the rotor, wheel, or tire. Could we attach
a heat conductor such as a heat pipe to draw off heat?

Rich/old poop
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Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:13:04 -0400
From: Gavin Wallis <WallisG@mwaa.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Brembo $2g kit, was: Re: Basic brake upgrade -Reply

uhhhh...am i the only one who sees huge clearance issues?

>>> Andrew Brilliant <andrewb@infowest.com> 04/21/99 11:50am >>>
Here is an Idea for helping to cool the brakes.  I realize this would be a
small help
however this is going to be _Real_ cheap.  I don't know about the
mechanics of this so
if this doesn't work forgive me.  Heat sinks which are used to cool CPU's
in computers
are actually very effective, and 2" x2" roughly sqaure of the material
costs abou $0.50
What about something like this attached to the Caliper with heat
conductor to help cool
this off.  Even if it is a small amount, if you used 4 of em only $2 for the
whole
thing.  Maybe the key here may be a few small, inexpensive things, along
with a solution
to the Pad/Rotor issue to eliminate our fade problem.



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http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:24:13 -0400
From: Jason Barnhart <phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Shifting points/rev limiter...

  I don't think the clutch is slipping, I was launching REAL hard, 6k+ dumps with no
slipping, I'd expect it to slip there more than anywhere.  The plugs have about 3k miles
on em, not saying they're not, but kinda doubt it.  The vacuum lines seem to be ok, not
sure about the Y-pipe.  It just seems odd that most if not all runs with speed shifts
had this affect, I was only able to watch the boost closely twice, but it did feel
sluggish on most runs.  My car felt much stronger and ran a faster time on the only run
where I lifted off the throttle between shifts.  It may have been building proper boost
the other weak runs, would retarded timing affect boost?
  I'd rather not get rid of the limiter, if not for it, I'm sure something would have
been broken all to hell already.  Thanks to a floor mat that moved around, the gas pedal
would stick to it and cause me to bounce off the rev limiter for extended periods, if
only for a second or two.  Btw, I'm sure it's not good, but is it bad to hit the
limiter, can I damage anything?  I took off behind a friend the other day, I was
spinning and when I finally hooked up I redlined pretty quick.  I hit the limiter for a
split second before pushing the clutch in to shift to the next gear, not a speed shift
btw.  The car proceeded to backfire like crazy and mis bad, everytime I tried to rev a
bit to keep it alive it backfired more.  I cut the engine completely to give it a few
seconds and couldn't get it restarted, I finally had to put it in gear and let out on
the clutch to get the engine turning over at all.  It was missing like crazy, but
straightened out shortly after and drove fine.  Again, I'm sure it's not good, but this
really worried me.  Unfortunately I've got extensive experience with the limiter (the
floor mat is now in my hatch) and it never acted like that aside from resembling one
ocasion where it was bouncing off the limiter for upwards of 2 seconds or better, the
time it took to reach down and pull the floor mat back.

Jason

Chris Winkley wrote:

> Jason...
>
> Sounds like you're driving it hard. Slipping clutch? Fouled plugs? Loose
> vacuum line? Leaking Y-pipe?

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Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:37:57 -0600
From: Andrew Brilliant <andrewb@infowest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Brembo $2g kit, was: Re: Basic brake upgrade-Reply

Thats why I asked the group, I have no idea as to the clearance issues.  What about
cooling the fluid directly? a container of some kind with heat sinks to bring down the
temp?

Gavin Wallis wrote:

> uhhhh...am i the only one who sees huge clearance issues?

- -snip-

- --
Andrew M. Brilliant
Webmaster
IS Department
Global Web Direct (OTC BB: GLCO)
801-852-4961
1-800-500-1847 ext: 2961


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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:25:17 -0700
From: lehir@genesiscom.ch (Genesiscon Lehir)
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: Brake failure???

Any of you guys ever got your rotors cryo'ed ??

Best

Henri
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Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:01:03 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Brake failure???

Genesiscon Lehir wrote:
>
> Any of you guys ever got your rotors cryo'ed ??
>
> Best
>
> Henri

Porterfield offers this as a $40 option on their rotors.  As of yet, no
one has mentioned that they have used them.

- --
How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he is lost!

Ken Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
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Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:58:24 +0200
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject: Re: Team3S: High 11's w/ stock Turbos? -Reply

Brad Bedell wrote:
>
> The "stock" turbos for the overseas (to the continental US) are 13g's.

The US-spec cars the only ones with the smaller 9Bs?


> therefore the turbos are quite a bit larger than the US version turbos.  I
> suspect the 13g's will produce at least 50hp more than the 9b's. Which would
> be enough to get into the 11's.

Note that our last dyno session in Switzerland pitted Roger's stock 13Gs
& aftermarket exhaust against Mike's stock 9Bs & aftermarket exhaust
against my stock 9Bs & stock exhaust.  Details on the web.

- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews

*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque


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Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:11:57 -0700
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Team3S: Shifting points/rev limiter...

Jason;

Just a thought...timing retard? Disconnect Battery/ ECU and let it reset. More than likely
it's one of the possiblities Chris has already mentioned.

Best

Darc

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Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:22:15 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: VPC --> 550cc injectors on a 96VR4

LotoBoost@aol.com wrote:
snip
> Another option available, and a much better option, would be to run a VPC.
> I've been installing custom VPC's on the 2nd. Gen. for a while now and am
> glad to report they work great (to the extent I am considering selling my TRE
> MASC - which was another option for us 2nd. Geners that never got out of the
> development stages).
snip

This is great news Mike.  Please elaborate on the custom installation.
Are you cutting and splicing?  Installing a new connector on the VPC?
Have you created a converter/harness that can plug into the VPC and the
2nd gen's ECU connector?  It sounds like a harness would be a good item
to fabricate and sell.

- --
How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he is lost!

Ken Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:42:02 +0200
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject: Re: Team3S: High 11's w/ stock Turbos?

Roger Gerl wrote:
>
> We have 284 DIN hp here, every year. But this is because our stock cars have
> 0.45-0.6 bars of boost stock. No differences over the years. I think Mitsu did
> this to keep the power below 300hp as some Cantons in Switzerland as well as
> other countries use a tax-system that looks for the hp of the cars. Furthermore,
> the less boost the better the milage and the better the result in tests :)

Note that 284 DIN = 320 SAE.  Euro-spec cars have bigger turbos than
U.S.-spec cars but the same peak horsepower (much different curve,
though).  Also interesting is that this still holds true after boost is
increased above stock levels.  Again, see the dyno results for more
info.

- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews

*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:42:02 +0200
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject: Re: Team3S: High 11's w/ stock Turbos?

Roger Gerl wrote:
>
> We have 284 DIN hp here, every year. But this is because our stock cars have
> 0.45-0.6 bars of boost stock. No differences over the years. I think Mitsu did
> this to keep the power below 300hp as some Cantons in Switzerland as well as
> other countries use a tax-system that looks for the hp of the cars. Furthermore,
> the less boost the better the milage and the better the result in tests :)

Note that 284 DIN = 320 SAE.  Euro-spec cars have bigger turbos than
U.S.-spec cars but the same peak horsepower (much different curve,
though).  Also interesting is that this still holds true after boost is
increased above stock levels.  Again, see the dyno results for more
info.

- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews

*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:54:54 +0200
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Brakes - My History  and Current Status

Dskull@aol.com wrote:
>
> [ ... ] I think perhaps the increased
> sweep area of the caliper's contribute more to perfomance than the rotor
> size. This is pure speculation on my part. [ ... ]

Thanx for the post.  Now I am looking forward to returning to Maryland
in a few years so that I can enjoy a few laps around Pocono and Summit.
On the other hand, I'm only an hour from Nurburgring!

Interesting that you were happiest with the stock rotors (cheap is good!
:-) ).  I must say that I'd be pretty darn surprised if trading my stock
'94 calipers for yours would prevent warping.  And no fade?  I just
don't get it!  But I sure hope it's true!!

I considered the Pagids but thought they would be too aggressive for the
stock rotors.  Not the case?  Please let me know... while Accelerated
Accessories was quick to give me a quote on the Abex pads, they don't
seem to be interested in taking my money and completing the order.  I
can get Pagids locally, I think.

Thanx... -Jim
- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews

*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:05:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: George Kuo <amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Brakes - My History  and Current Status

- --- Dskull@aol.com wrote:

> After trying different techniques
> learned to either be ON the
> brakes or OFF, no light braking then hard braking.
> Fade was reduced but would
> return after a few hot laps.

Dave is very right. How you brake also effect how fast the brake system
fades. I must admit I sometimes light brake b4 a hard brake just to
check if my brake is still there.. haha =)

George

_________________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:03:53 -0700
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Shifting points/rev limiter...

Jason (w/the WOT floor mat mod)  :-)

Yes, if you've run the engine into a lean condition with boost and high
revs, the timing will retard. What I don't know is how long it will stay
retarded. The ECU design is to compensate for "abnormal" conditions, then
return to "normal" when the condition ceases, but that could be five
seconds, or five minutes. Anyone know?

BTW...I'd still pull the front plugs and check their condition. If you're
running your boost beyond 1.0 bar, I suggest you tighten the gap down to
.034".

As Darcy pointed out, it wouldn't hurt to pull the main fuse for an hour to
reset the ECU. You'll be sure the ECU hasn't "learned" some strange
condition. AND, as I'm sure you've read from Roger...major caution should be
exercised with the lean condition causing detonation. Engine rebuilds are
EXPENSIVE.

Looking forward...Chris

1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/HKS Super Flo intake, TEC 15G turbos, bored
and polished throttle body, RC 560cc injectors, HKS fuel pump, GReddy PRofec
A boost controller, G-force ECU upgrade, HKS SBOV, custom intercoolers,
Predator dry cell battery, Magnecore 8.5mm wires, NGK double platinum plugs
gapped at .030", ATR downpipe and test pipe, GReddy catback exhaust, GReddy
turbo timer, Eibach 1" drop progressive springs)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jason Barnhart [mailto:phnxgld@erols.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 10:24 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Shifting points/rev limiter...

 <snip>

It may have been building proper boost the other weak runs, would retarded
timing affect boost?
 
Jason
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:26:09 -0500
From: "Omar Malik" <ojm@iname.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Brake List Columns!

HTML would fix this, but that's not allowed :(

Omar
92 r/t

> WHY did that last message show up crappy?  I had all the columns closely
> spaced yet in order, not with 30 spaces between words and scattergrammed
> all over the place.



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 23:37:02 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Team3S: Brake List

Ok, I've put a small page together with some information. I had only a little of
time but I'm sure it will grow with more information soon.

http://homepage.swissonline.ch/3000gt/3s_brakes.html

Please let me know your input on that (prices, sizes, etc.) and I'll put it on.

Regards,

- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
K&N FIPK,Magnecor wires,Blitz DSBC/gauge/Dual Timer,Apexi AFC,HKS SBOV,
ATR DP/ tespipe,Borla Cat-back,OZ Mito2 rims,Yoko AVS-Z1,braided brake lines,
Bremsa brakes,Pagid RS-R pads

Check out: http://homepage.swissonline.ch/3000gt
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:14:25 -0700
From: "Dave Allison" <dallison@siebel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Brakes - My History and Current Status

Accelerated Accessories wasted no time taking MY money. The charge
to my card showed up the day after I ordered and a week before I received a
single part! Made me a bit nervuous to be honest.

It sounds as if the Pagids are the way to go then. Does anyone know
how much these run and what part number/type to order?

Thanks.

Dave Allison

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Matthews [mailto:matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de]
>Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 11:55 AM
>To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>Subject: Re: Team3S: Brakes - My History and Current Status
>
>I considered the Pagids but thought they would be too aggressive for the
>stock rotors.  Not the case?  Please let me know... while Accelerated
>Accessories was quick to give me a quote on the Abex pads, they don't
>seem to be interested in taking my money and completing the order.  I
>can get Pagids locally, I think.

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:22:57 -0700
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Message Format

xwing wrote:

> WHY did that last message show up crappy?  I had all the columns closely
> spaced yet in order, not with 30 spaces between words and scattergrammed
> all over the place.  Others have had theirs this way too, it is annoying
> and a detriment to our list!  Maybe someone can help us on this to avoid
> problems in future?  This is not a car topic but does impact on the
> quality of list messages.  Sorry to those who think it unimportant.

One of the more recent versions of Netscape (I use ver. 4.5)
helps to eliminate this problem.  Also, it might have been because
your columns were too wide.  I have noticed other people on the
list also writing with really wide columns which then get cropped
by either the maillist server and/or my browser.  I never write my
lines past the "Decrease Indent" button on Netscape's toolbar.
But I'm not sure if these things totally explain why your post turned
out so messy.

- --Errin Humphrey



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:42:55 -0500
From: Ken Taft <kentaft@cwix.com>
Subject: Team3S: short shifter

Jose, I interested in your shifter send me your private e-mail because i
deleted it. Also tell me more about this shifter and how difficult it is to
install it. Thanks Ken

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Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:51:49 -0400
From: "Meyer" <meyer2@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Brakes - My History and Current Status

Dave et.al.
Our policy is to process charges when products are shipped. It takes a week
for shipping from coast to coast.
Frank
www.AcceleratedAccessories.com
- -----Original Message-----
From: Dave Allison <dallison@siebel.com>
To: 'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com' <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 7:17 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Brakes - My History and Current Status


> Accelerated Accessories wasted no time taking MY money. The charge
>to my card showed up the day after I ordered and a week before I received a
>single part! Made me a bit nervuous to be honest.
>
> It sounds as if the Pagids are the way to go then. Does anyone know
>how much these run and what part number/type to order?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Dave Allison
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Matthews [mailto:matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de]
>>Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 11:55 AM
>>To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>>Subject: Re: Team3S: Brakes - My History and Current Status
>>
>>I considered the Pagids but thought they would be too aggressive for the
>>stock rotors.  Not the case?  Please let me know... while Accelerated
>>Accessories was quick to give me a quote on the Abex pads, they don't
>>seem to be interested in taking my money and completing the order.  I
>>can get Pagids locally, I think.
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:41:02 +1200
From: Kevin Clark <Kevin.Clark@hnz.co.nz>
Subject: Team3S: RE: ABS vs NonABS

> A 'perfect' ABS system would stop the car in the shortest distance
> possible by keeping the tires from sliding, thus the coefficient of
> friction the highest.

This is correct under general conditions.  The only time that
ABS actually increases the stoping distance is on un-sealed
roads (loose gravel) and possibly snow (don't get much of it
over here).  Under these conditions it is actually advantageous
to have the wheels lock up and thus "dig" through the loose
surface.

Anyone having tried to break hard on a gravel pitch will be
able to back me up on this, best thing to do is to flick the
car sideways a little, assuming the gravel is not deep or you
may roll :(

Cheers,
Kevin Clark
'91 GTO-VR4   <--  been through many a gravel road
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Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:49:39 -0400
From: Irving & Ana Jimenez <lt1power@crystal.palace.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 550cc injectors on a 96VR4

> Del is absolutely right. Use an AFC to tweak the ECU and to tune in the proper
> fuel delivery or get the ECU modified ($$$). There is also a good AF computer
> from Field that includes A/F meter and a G-Tech function ! The Supra guys love
> it :)

Question :

What kind of fuel mileage ( M.P.G. )  you guys getting with the 550cc Injectors ?


Irving
96 VR4


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Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:46:41 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: ABS vs NonABS

>This is correct under general conditions.  The only time that
>ABS actually increases the stoping distance is on un-sealed
>roads (loose gravel) and possibly snow (don't get much of it
>over here).  Under these conditions it is actually advantageous
>to have the wheels lock up and thus "dig" through the loose
>surface.Anyone having tried to break hard on a gravel pitch will be
able to back me up on this, best thing to do is to flick the
car sideways a little, assuming the gravel is not deep or you
may roll :(

>
In all the years we ran Pro rallys, we NEVER had a brake problem. Reason:
We didn't use them much. As Kevin points out, as you approach a turn on a
gravel road or in snow at speed, you put the car sideways and let the tires
scrub off the speed. If you slam on the brakes, it's likely to lock the
front wheels, and then you can't steer it.

Here's the drill, as best as I can remember, for approaching a 90 deg right
turn in the forest on gravel, dirt, sand, ice, or snow at 80 mph in a 1972
Datsun 510 rally car:

1. Let off, tap the brakes, downshift to 3rd.
2. Saw the wheel first to the right, then to the left (like skiing --
you're setting the edges) to get the car to rotate around sideways,
pointing at the entrance to the turn. We're now doing about 45-50 mph,
sliding sideways at about a 45 deg angle, with the car pointed to the right.
3. Control the slide with the throttle. Too fast, let off and let the car
slew a little more sideways to scrub off speed. Too slow, more throttle to
drive toward the apex. (It sounds kinda like voopa, voopa, voopa as you
constantly correct with the throttle). The slide doesn't last long -- maybe
2-5 seconds. As you apex the corner with the right front fender just
clipping the stop sign at about 35-40 mph, bang it into 2nd gear and floor
it. The left rear corner will slide right out to the edge and maybe nick a
tree or two. As we rallyists always said, "if you don't have any dents in
your rear quarter panels, you ain't going fast enough!"

The best piece of equipment we ever put in our 510 was a 4:44 240Z limited
slip diff from Datsun Competition. It made it ever so much easier to get
and keep the car sideways. On most rallyes, the car rarely points straight
ahead anyway. In the twisty bits, it's always sideways one way or another,
'specially in the snow.

Today's rally cars, with their AWD and FWD, corner a lot differently than
we did with our old RWD cars. To watch John Buffum fling a 1970s-era RWD
works Escort through a hairpin turn on gravel was to see a thing of beauty
and exquisite car control at the very limit.

Open track driving is a lot of fun, but not very scary. Rallying can be
VERY scary.

Rich/old poop/the older I get, the faster I was.
Sigh. Nostalgia just isn't what it used to be.
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:59:46 -0500
From: Del A Kolasinski <pearlvr42c@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 550cc injectors on a 96VR4

With bigger injectors, pump, etc. under normal driving conditions you
should see NO difference in your MPG.  HOWEVER, when driving under boost
with a bigger fuel system, and the other mods, (boost controller, etc.)
you WILL see a drop off in gas mileage.  Because after all the purpose of
bigger injectors is to get more fuel into the combustion chamber when it
is needed under high boost driving.  I personally see my gas mileage drop
when I turn my EVC on, and that is a stock fuel system.
Del
PEARLVR42C@juno.com
wisc.dsm.org

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Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:24:23 -0400
From: Brian Danley <bcdmad@concentric.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: tranny leak

I did.  The part you need is this one  it's only like
http://www.concentric.net/~Bcdmad/tranny1.jpg  $4-$5 from Tallahassee Mits.

I couldn't figure out how it got out ... and I still can't figure out how
it goes in.  I put it in Backwards and it works.  I'll be taking out the
tranny soon for a new throwout bearing and will fix it the right way.

Brian


Subject: Team3S: tranny leak

I've recently developed a little leak from the tranny on my '91 VR4.  It
is leaking out of the side closest to the passenger wheel above the
drain plug.  It appears that some sort of plug is missing.  Has anyone
else experienced a leak from this area and is there a plug of some sort
that might be missing?

Thanks,
Ken

- --
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do!

Ken Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
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http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 23:39:24 -0500
From: "Omar Malik" <ojm@iname.com>
Subject: Team3S: Wheels and other brainstorm schtuff, was: Basic brake upgrade

On a side note. For those that would have a chance to get new wheels, I
guess it would be common sense to get some with thinner and fewer spokes.
Let those brakes breathe. Could some clearance issues be solved by getting
wheels with smaller offset? Or would that be a negligable factor?

Maybe some sort of "brake-turbo" system could be jerry rigged. Say, to take
any exhaust gas vented by the waste gate and send it through a _very_ small
turbo, which would compress air and send it to the brakes, thus cooling the
brakes during on-the-gas runs. Would there be enough pressure from the
wastegates to get a small turbo spinning. If so, would it be more then air
coming in from custom ducts in front of the car, to be at the least, more
effective? Would any air being compressed by the turbo be heated up by
compression or the turbo housing to the point it would be ineffective?

I liked the idea of active cooling with coolant. is there enough space for
say a 2 x 2 x 1/2 inch square piece to be attached to the caliper, with
coolant tubes flowing through?

Maybe some sort of vanes could be attached to the wheels to direct airflow
in through the spokes? Would this effect aerodynamics or turn radius? (I
reckon it would, but to what extent?)

Just some extreme thoughts off the top of my head here. Let me know if these
ideas are in no way viable/effective or even sane!

Omar
92 r/t


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:58:33 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Wheels and other brainstorm schtuff, was: Basic brake upgrade

At 11:39 PM 4/21/99 -0500, Omar wrote:
For those that would have a chance to get new wheels, I
>guess it would be common sense to get some with thinner and fewer spokes.
>Let those brakes breathe. Could some clearance issues be solved by getting
>wheels with smaller offset? Or would that be a negligable factor?

Good question. Do aftermarket wheels have more clearance for the Porsche
calipers?
As I understand it, the stock wheels only have 1/16 in. clearance.
>
>I liked the idea of active cooling with coolant. is there enough space for
>say a 2 x 2 x 1/2 inch square piece to be attached to the caliper, with
>coolant tubes flowing through?

I've always wondered about this myself. Seems like the brake fluid stays in
the calipers, where it gets cooked constantly, until it turns black and has
to be bled off. Why can't brake fluid be circulated or cooled?
>
>Maybe some sort of vanes could be attached to the wheels to direct airflow
>in through the spokes? Would this effect aerodynamics or turn radius? (I
>reckon it would, but to what extent?)

I think Formula 1 wheels do this very thing. They serve as a big vacuum
cleaner to suck air from the wheelwell out through the spokes, thus setting
up airflow across the rotors. Where's our Formula 1 expert?
>
>Just some extreme thoughts off the top of my head here. Let me know if these
>ideas are in no way viable/effective or even sane!

All ideas are welcome, and there is no such thing as a bad idea. Thanks for
yours.

Rich/old poop/94 VR4
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------------------------------

End of Team3S Digest V1 #159
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