--
From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #152
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
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Team3S Digest
Wednesday, April 14 1999 Volume 01 :
Number
152
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:41:50 -0700
From: "james berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Suspension & Brakes installation
If I had that much work done in
California for $35 it would have
to be at gunpoint. For $35 and no gun I
could get them to remove
all four wheels and they would want to keep
two.
Jim
Berry 93 TT
>My local brake and muffler
shop just charged me $35 (all labor, no
>materials) to do the
following:
>
>1. Remove all four wheels.
>2. Check rear
pads
>3. Remove front rotor, replace broken wheel stud (I
supplied)
>4. Install new carbon metallic pads (I supplied) in front
-- while doing
>this, he cleaned all the little parts, ground down
the edges on the old
>carbon metallic pads that came out (so I can use
them for backup pads), and
>reassembled everything.
>5. Bleed all
four brakes, fill up with Racing Blue (I supplied). Lots of
>evil black
stuff came out, mostly from the calipers. Guess we cook even the
>racing
fluid, eh? (We put in Racing Blue last year).
>6. Hand-tighten the wheel
lugs, then torque (with a real wrench, not an air
>tool) to 100
in-lb.
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:17:08 -0400
From: Jason Barnhart <phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: wheels and tires
Leland Gray wrote:
> Thanks for all
the replies.. I thought that larger wheels meant better handling
and
> better performance.. So would there be a significant
difference in going with a larger
> rim and lower profile tires?
If
I understand correctly, Z rated tires have stiffer sidewalls and will therefore
handle
better. You may not ever see the speeds that Z rated tires can
withstand, but the handling
will most likely be better. Also, no matter
what size the rim is, the important factor is
the circumferance of the
tire. If you maintain the same circumferance (larger rim, lower
profile
tire) you should not have any performance problems. However, if the
circumferance
is increased too much, you may not have the power to accelerate
with the increased
circumferance, and hurt acceleration. As far as
weight goes, a good aftermarket rim, even
larger, may weigh less. The
biggest problem with larger rims in the back would be for
rotating them
forward to even the wear out, it'd look kinda silly with 20s on the front
and
18s on the rear.
Jason
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:56:25 -0700
From: "james berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
wheels and tires
As far as weight goes, a good aftermarket rim,
even
>larger, may weigh less. The biggest problem with larger rims
in the back
would be for
>rotating them forward to even the wear out,
it'd look kinda silly with 20s
on the front and
>18s on the
rear.
Even good rims will result in more unsprung weight --- You're
replacing an
air
filled rubber tube with metal. Unless you go with
some high tech racing rim
the metal will weigh more than the
rubber.
Jim Berry
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 01:53:53 EDT
From: SoCoDrnkr@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S:
wheels and tires
Leland
\
Well bro in reply to your thoughts of
lowering and modifying the wheels and
springs:
i would only recomend
Eibach coil overs. And with the bigger wheels in the
rear will
probably mess up the camber alignment. So an alignment will
definately
be needed. And possibly a camber correction kit
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:36:26 +0200
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: 176mph- reply
"Barry E. King" wrote:
>
> This
should be easy to test actually. Run up to about 154-155 mph and
back
> off the throttle just enough to stop accelerating (but not slow
down) then
> nail the throttle again. If the soft limiter is indeed
working as described
> you should not accelerate past 156 mph.
I've
done this on the Autobahn more than once and have been able to
accelerate
from a sustained 150 up to 160+. Incidentally, my top speed
so far is
168 mph, though I think it could do a tad more (173?). Roger
has gone
faster, probably helped by his 13G turbos, bigger injectors,
exhaust mods and
different aerodynamics. I must say that during top
speed runs my car
does seem to just stop accelerating at certain speeds,
not always the
same. Interesting...
-Jim
P.S.- Fuel economy defintely
suffers at these speeds! :-)
- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden,
Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de
(64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top
Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb
99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:04:37 +0200
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: UPRD Dyno results in California
"R.G." wrote:
>
> Analysing the given data from you tells me the following story
:
>
> 1. As your max power was around 5100-5400 the BC has not
finished to learn.
> Correct me if I'm wrong but these
are typical indicies for this.
When I did my runs, I reset the SAVC-R
settings each time, so it never
completed a proper learn. In my
experience, the SAVC-R seems to start
out too aggressive and then back off as
it learns. My peak horsepower
was at 5680 and peak torque was at 5180
(though torque was nearly at
high at 2900).
> 2. Your reading
could be ok as the non-stock exhaust hurts more than it
really
> helps. It would be very important to see the
torque data (curve) as well as
> the power curve in the
5500 region.
I know it seems counterintuitive for turbocharged engines,
but from our
dyno sessions, a freer flowing exhaust is a disadvantage with
moderate
modifications because it shifts the torque curve higher in the
RPM
range, stealing power from low RPMs where the car is driven more
often
and adding power above 6000 RPMs where the stock fuel system maxes out.
If anything, I would have expected his curves to peak at higher RPMs
than
mine. Note that Mike Chapleski's max power peaked at 6230, 550
RPM
higher than mine, due to exhaust mods. Roger also has exhaust mods,
but
his readings can't be used for such a comparison due to his stock
13G
turbos and bigger Eu-spec injectors, both of which change the
power
characteristics considerably.
> 3. If the timing got
retarded after 5400 it's possible that the engine is
>
running in early detonation causing to lower the power then.
Possible,
but he did have the SAVC-R limited to 1.00 bar... if there is
detonation, I
would think it would be only slight and would occur higher
in the rev
band. Too bad they couldn't test this!
> 4. If the dyno is
the problem than extrapolate your reading to our curves
and
> you'll end around 382hp SAE at 5500-5600. This is
absolutely possible and
> not inaccurate if your boost
readings on the meter was ok.
382 is definitely in the ballpark.
BTW, thanx for spelling that all
out, Roger!
Note that most of the
above is described on our dyno pages.
> Here the non-tech stuff
:
>
> > Will I go back to Accelerated Accesories? Sorry, no. Too
many other
> > places will likely give better service and fulfill their
promises.
>
> Not a lot people or shops do understand the power of
the Internet and the list.
> I hope Matt & Frank will taking care of
you as they will loose their reputation
> pretty quick. I just remember
the GT Alley thing and how fast his name got bad,
> very bad !
Take
a look at the stock market and it is obvious that E-commerce is
the
future. For those of us not living in the states, there is no
practical
alternative! Large and small corporations alike are
sacrificing other
programs to reallocate funds to their web sites and
Email
responsiveness, and they're reaping big rewards.
> That's
it on this thing as we all know that flame-wars are not allowed on the
>
list but informing us about the experience (good and bad) is helpful to
other
> buyers.
Agreed.
- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden,
Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de
(64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top
Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb
99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:37:15 +0100
From: "Simon Jones" <simon@3kgto.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject:
Re Team3S: 176mph- reply
I have a Japanese GTO imported into the
UK. In Japan, there is a 180km/h
(~110mph) limit in the ECU. In
the U.K. there is a 155 mph limiter on most
cars that can do it (eg Jaguars /
BMW have them, but Ferrari don't).
I removed the limiter in my GTO by
effectively slowing down the speed signal
into the ECU
electronically.
You could try to prove if there is any limit by
disconnecting the speed
sensor input into the
ECU.
Regards,
Simon Jones
'94 GTO
http://www.3kgto.freeserve.co.uk
simon@3kgto.freeserve.co.uk
>G-Force,
who does the reprogramming on our ECU do not know anything about
a
>limiter. Maybe some countries do have this limiter as our friend in the
UK
had
>to install a speed governour when he imported
it.
>
>Anyways, my EU car does not have a limiter at all
;-)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 03:55:36 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Launching with bleach
Would it be useful to wipe the tires with
bleach (or something else) before
a launch?
This way, we could smoke
all four without requiring a 4500 rpm dump or
clutch slip.
The reason
I ask is because the best 0-60 time I've gotten so far (5.50
sec) was on a
damp (not wet) road, where I could spin the tires easily.
Before I try
this, what are the drawbacks? (besides turning my tires white)
It would
be kinda hard to jump out of the car at a stoplight, but it might
work for
acceleration runs with a G-Tech meter.
Comments?
Rich/old poop/94
VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:47:15 +0200
From: Roger Gerl <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Fuel Management - Split Second
Chris, thanks for the link to
another EFI site.
Unfortunately, their prices are pretty high. An example
is the 3bar MAP sensor
from GM (Motorola) they sell for $79 and I can get it
for $49 retail ! The MAF
sensors are costing around $1000 with a tool that
allows you to tweak the signal
(like an S-AFC). The sensor looks pretty
similar to the one I do have in the
350ci Camaro but with an added flange for
proper mounting. Such a MAF with
housing is around $350 at a GM dealer and an
adapter could be made for say $70.
Now add a Blitz SUS or big K&N for
about $100-180 and the system would be
perfect. The only thing I don't know
is how compatible the signals are :( Time
for hooking up a scope,
hehe.
Unfortunately, all those systems do not look for the MAP readings
and therefore
are only rpm related. This is the big advantage of the HKS VPC
and Haltech EFI
systems.
Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
>
I forgot who posted it. I checked out http://www.splitsec.com. They
>
make MAF Kits. I asked if they had any plans on making them for
the
> 3000GT.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:03:53 -0400
From: "Meyer" <meyer2@erols.com>
Subject: Team3S:
factory plug wires+air filter for sale
All,
I have a factory air
filter element and a set of factory plug wires both
brand new in box that I
am returning to Mitsubishi. If anyone wants them the
filter is $25 and the
wires are $75.
Frank
www.AcceleratedAccessories.com
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:14:25 -0600
From: Manoj Prasad <mprasad@uswest.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Exhaust Tips for Stealth
This is a multi-part message in MIME
format.
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multipart/alternative;
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I saw 3 factory
exhaust tips for sale on the 3SI classified. The person
wanted $20.00
for them + shipping. Take a look there and see if they
are still
available.
Rgds
Moep
Ken Taft wrote:
> Hi All,
Does anybody have FACTORY exhaust tips that will fit my 1992
> Dodge
Stealth R/TI am switching from single to dual exhaust. Let me no
> how
much you want for them. Thanks Ken
-
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public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
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bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
I saw 3 factory exhaust tips for sale on the 3SI
classified. The
person wanted $20.00 for them +
shipping. Take a look there
and see if they are still
available.
<p>Rgds
<br>Moep
<p>Ken Taft
wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE> <font
color="#000000"><font size=-1>Hi All,
Does anybody have FACTORY
exhaust tips that will fit my 1992 Dodge
Stealth
R/T</font></font><font color="#000000"><font
size=-1>I am switching from
single to dual exhaust. Let me no how much you
want for them. Thanks
Ken</font></font></blockquote>
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</html>
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For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:14:00 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Suspension & Brakes installation
Hi Oskar,
You are
correct. This labor seems to be about double to me (excluding
the
alignment). Having done all this myself before (not an
alignment
though), I would estimate as follows, given the mechanic is a pro,
the
shop has a hoist to lift the car completely off the ground, and has
a
good professional spring compressor:
all 4 springs 3.0 hours
all
(8) brake hoses & bleeding 1.5 hours
all 4 rotors & pads 1.5
hours
alignment 1.0 hours
total 7.0 hours
I actually think a
pro should be able to do all this well under 6.0
hours! If he'll use a
floor jack and a junky spring compressor, that
could easily add an
hour.
You only have to hoist the car and remove and replace the tires 1
time.
R&R of the rotors & pads only involve a spring clip, 2 pins,
and 2 bolts
for each corner. The new rotors should not require any
machining but
you should check with Stillen.
Get a package price from
a few shops. Good luck,
Ken
> > Hi
all,
> >
> > I'm having rotors, pads, steel
braided brake lines and lowering springs
> > installed on my '95
R/T TT. The quotes I'm getting seem a bit high on
the
>
> labor and I was hoping to get some comments from the group. This
is
all
> > from the labor rate guide, but I'm wondering if
there isn't some
overlap
> > built in. I have my own
parts.
> >
> > Springs:
>
> Front 2.6 hrs
>
> Rear 2.8 hrs
>
>
> > Brake hose: (incl. bleeding)
>
> Front 1.6 hrs
>
> Rear 1.6 hrs
>
>
> > Brake pads
> >
Front 0.8 hrs
> >
R&R or renew rotors 0.8 hrs
>
> Rear 0.8 hrs
>
> R&R or renew rotors 0.8
hrs
> >
> > Total 11.8
hrs
> >
> > The alignment is supposedly thrown in
for free. The rotors are brand
new
> > Stillen cross
drilled. Is it correct to assume they can just
be
installed,
> > or do they have to be turned
first?
--
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts
do!
Ken Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:27:19 EDT
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Brand new
Centerforce duel friction clutch 4 sale
This New still in the box,
Centerforce duel friction clutch is for the turbo
model.
I just received
a NEW one from Centerforce to replace the one I glazed from
racing.
Centerforce replaced it with a new one. Thank you
Centerforce.
Guys, over 500HP this clutch will not hold up on the track.
Under 500HP its
great.
I really liked this clutch, you can check my old
posts. Good in traffic and
holds plenty of power, just not good for 600+HP
at 11 sec runs. 5 times a
day. (grin)
If I recall, cost was about $750.
for this top of the line model.
I'll sell for $500 with shipping included.
Its Brand New, never installed,
never taken out of the box, I just got it
today.
Arty 91 VR-4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:37:32 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Launching with bleach
Merritt wrote:
>
> Would
it be useful to wipe the tires with bleach (or something else) before
> a
launch?
I thought burnouts in bleach were meant to make the tires more
sticky,
so at the launch you spin less. Thus you can launch at higher
RPM and
get a quicker launch.
Your 0-60 times can be improved easily,
you just have to be harder
(abusive??) on your car :0.
On my '91 VR4
with FIPK & bleeder valve set at 15psi and at an altitude
of 1800 feet,
my 0-60 G-Tech times are about 5.3 - 5.6 using clutch slip
launches.
However, my quickest 0-60 times are achieved by dumping the
clutch as
follows: at stop, slip the clutch a little to take out slack,
push
clutch back in, nail the throttle, pop the clutch as RPM reach 5500
without
lifting throttle. I've only done this twice, but they are
greatly
improved 0-60 times. They were 4.79 and 4.81 on the same
stretch of
rode in both directions, consistent and about 1/2 second
quicker.
- --
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do!
Ken
Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:00:54 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Fuel Management - Split Second
Chris, I posted that link twice over the
last few months. I am glad someone
else followed up on
it.
Roger, the signals of the hot wire airmeter and the factory vortex
airmeter
are totally incompatable, which is why they charge so much for
the
conversion system. This is NOT an RPM sensed system nor
speed/density like
the VPC, it measures airflow (true load) exactly like the
factory system.
The signal coming from the factory MAS is a
frequency. The signal from a
hotwire airmeter is analog, usually
ranging from 0 VDC to roughly 5 VDC.
The airmeter must be calibrated for
airflow versus output voltage, then the
calibration data must be translated
into a frequency which corresponds to
the flow seen by a frequency MAS.
All this is programmed into the device.
The Split Second approach is not
quite as sophisticated as the MASC but it
is very similar in principle.
They use more of a VPC approach using a
hardcoded initial algorithm with a
few knobs to allow tweaking the
parameters.
I don't see any reason why
they could not adapt the product for the VR4 and
with relative ease. It
would be an excellent alternative to the VPC
especially for later model
cars. Although pricey, they are close to the
price of a VPC and right
where the MASC used to be priced. The airmeters
look like Pro-M units
(considered by many to to be the best of the hot wire
breed), which are more
expensive than GM stuff.
Regards,
Barry
>
-----Original Message-----
>
> Chris, thanks for the link to another
EFI site.
>
> Unfortunately, their prices are pretty high. An
example is the
> 3bar MAP sensor
> from GM (Motorola) they sell for
$79 and I can get it for $49
> retail ! The MAF
> sensors are
costing around $1000 with a tool that allows you to
> tweak the
signal
> (like an S-AFC). The sensor looks pretty similar to the one I
do
> have in the
> 350ci Camaro but with an added flange for proper
mounting. Such a MAF with
> housing is around $350 at a GM dealer and an
adapter could be
> made for say $70.
> Now add a Blitz SUS or big
K&N for about $100-180 and the system would be
> perfect. The only
thing I don't know is how compatible the
> signals are :( Time
> for
hooking up a scope, hehe.
>
> Unfortunately, all those systems do
not look for the MAP readings
> and therefore
> are only rpm
related. This is the big advantage of the HKS VPC
> and Haltech
EFI
> systems.
>
> Regards,
> Roger
> 93'3000GT
TT
>
> > I forgot who posted it. I checked out http://www.splitsec.com. They
>
> make MAF Kits. I asked if they had any plans on making them for
the
> > 3000GT.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:25:56 PDT
From: "Chris S." <shadowphantom_1@hotmail.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Fuel Management - Split Second
Now we need someone in
California to get in contact with them. Who
knows, the first guy
probably would get a deal on it for being the
"beta" tester. Once
things are worked out maybe we could get 5 people
together for a group
purchase. This is all speculation now. But it
sure would be
nice.
Chris
>Chris, I posted that link twice over the
last few months. I am glad
someone
>else followed up on
it.
>
>Roger, the signals of the hot wire airmeter and the factory
vortex
airmeter
>are totally incompatable, which is why they charge so
much for the
>conversion system. This is NOT an RPM sensed system
nor
speed/density like
>the VPC, it measures airflow (true load)
exactly like the factory
system.
>
>The signal coming from the
factory MAS is a frequency. The signal
from a
>hotwire airmeter
is analog, usually ranging from 0 VDC to roughly 5
VDC.
>
>The
airmeter must be calibrated for airflow versus output voltage,
then
the
>calibration data must be translated into a frequency
which
corresponds to
>the flow seen by a frequency MAS. All this
is programmed into the
device.
>
>The Split Second approach is
not quite as sophisticated as the MASC
but it
>is very similar in
principle. They use more of a VPC approach using
a
>hardcoded
initial algorithm with a few knobs to allow tweaking
the
>parameters.
>
>I don't see any reason why they could not
adapt the product for the
VR4 and
>with relative ease. It would
be an excellent alternative to the VPC
>especially for later model
cars. Although pricey, they are close to
the
>price of a VPC and
right where the MASC used to be priced. The
airmeters
>look like
Pro-M units (considered by many to to be the best of the
hot
wire
>breed), which are more expensive than GM
stuff.
>
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Barry
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------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:41:46 PDT
From: "Chris S." <shadowphantom_1@hotmail.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Fuel Management - Split Second
I emailed Split Second asking
them to join the list. It would be alot
easier to work something out
that
way.
Chris
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------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:53:31 -0500
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Launching with bleach
>
>I thought burnouts in
bleach were meant to make the tires more sticky,
>so at the launch you
spin less. Thus you can launch at higher RPM and
>get a quicker
launch.
I think they are used by the bigbadguys to make the tires
slippery, so they
will spin madly and heat up the drag slicks. That's what
the smokey burnout
is for.
>
>Your 0-60 times can be improved
easily, you just have to be harder
>(abusive??) on your car :0.
That's what I'm trying to avoid.
Rich/old poop
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------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:03:31 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Launching with bleach
Merritt wrote:
>
>
>
> >I thought burnouts in bleach were meant to make the tires more
sticky,
> >so at the launch you spin less. Thus you can launch at
higher RPM and
> >get a quicker launch.
>
> I think they
are used by the bigbadguys to make the tires slippery, so they
> will spin
madly and heat up the drag slicks. That's what the smokey burnout
> is
for.
If they just want slippery, why not use water? It's
cheaper. I think
the bleach also chemically causes the rubber to become
more gooey/sticky
along with the heat from the burnout. I'm just
speculating...
- --
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts
do!
Ken Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:08:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Klassen <mike_klassen@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Team3S: SRS light
My SRS light is on and I was wondering if anyone knew a
way to reset it? I
took it to the dealer and they found that it was
both rear wheel sensors that
had gotten iced up. They cleaned them off
and it went off. It's too warm for
any ice build up now. Maybe its
moisture buildup? Any ideas?
Mike Klassen 92 RT
NA
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Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:11:47 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Launching with bleach
Ken Middaugh wrote:
>
>
Merritt wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >I thought
burnouts in bleach were meant to make the tires more sticky,
> > >so
at the launch you spin less. Thus you can launch at higher RPM and
>
> >get a quicker launch.
> >
> > I think they are used
by the bigbadguys to make the tires slippery, so they
> > will spin
madly and heat up the drag slicks. That's what the smokey burnout
> >
is for.
>
> If they just want slippery, why not use water?
It's cheaper. I think
> the bleach also chemically causes the rubber
to become more gooey/sticky
> along with the heat from the burnout.
I'm just speculating...
I guess I could have been clearer. The goal
here is to improve tire
grip using heat AND a (cheap) chemical. As
horesepower goes up, so does
the need for grip. They only want to spin
the tires to heat them up,
not when they launch.
- --
Two wrongs
don't make a right, but three lefts do!
Ken Middaugh
General
Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
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------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:21:39 -0500
From: Scott J Cowan <sjc0u812@juno.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: SRS light
Mike:
I'm going through the same thing right
now. Mine came on Friday. The
dealer wants $35 to run the
diagnostics to tell me what's wrong. One
person indicated that it *may*
come on at a preset interval for checking,
but I don't know if that's true or
not. Another indicated that the
dealer simply by running the
diagnostics would turn it back off. Again,
I don't know if that's true
either. I asked the mechanic this and he
indicated that this scenario
only applied to other vehicles like trucks
and such, not in this instance
with this system. Basically he told me
one of the sensors must be
bad. I'm not sure I beleive that either. I'm
curious, how many
miles do you have on yours? I just turned
108,5K.
Regards,
Scott
'92 VR4
>My SRS light is on
and I was wondering if anyone knew a way to reset
>it?
I
>took it to the dealer and they found that it was both rear wheel
>sensors that
>had gotten iced up. They cleaned them off and
it went off. It's too
>warm for
>any ice build up now. Maybe
its moisture buildup? Any
ideas?
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Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:47:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Klassen <mike_klassen@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: SRS light
Scott
What a coincidence! Mine has 108k
(kilometers) as well. I don't believe in
coincidence, what about
you?
Mike
- --- Scott J Cowan <sjc0u812@juno.com> wrote:
>
Mike:
>
> I'm going through the same thing right now. Mine
came on Friday. The
> dealer wants $35 to run the diagnostics to
tell me what's wrong. One
> person indicated that it *may* come on
at a preset interval for checking,
> but I don't know if that's true or
not. Another indicated that the
> dealer simply by running the
diagnostics would turn it back off. Again,
> I don't know if that's
true either. I asked the mechanic this and he
> indicated that this
scenario only applied to other vehicles like trucks
> and such, not in
this instance with this system. Basically he told me
> one of the
sensors must be bad. I'm not sure I beleive that either. I'm
>
curious, how many miles do you have on yours? I just turned
108,5K.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott
> '92 VR4
>
> >My SRS light is on and I was wondering if anyone knew a way to
reset
> >it? I
> >took it to the dealer and they found
that it was both rear wheel
> >sensors that
> >had gotten
iced up. They cleaned them off and it went off. It's too
> >warm
for
> >any ice build up now. Maybe its moisture buildup?
Any ideas?
>
>
>
___________________________________________________________________
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don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get
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>
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> For subscribe/unsubscribe
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>
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Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:54:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Klassen <mike_klassen@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: SRS light
I just looked up the TSB's at all data, what do you
suppose this one says?
080293 JAN 93
Supplemental Restraint Diagnostic Code Erase Function
Mike
- ---
Michael Klassen <mike_klassen@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Scott
> What a coincidence! Mine has 108k
(kilometers) as well. I don't believe in
> coincidence, what about
you?
> Mike
>
> --- Scott J Cowan <sjc0u812@juno.com> wrote:
> >
Mike:
> >
> > I'm going through the same thing right
now. Mine came on Friday. The
> > dealer wants $35 to run
the diagnostics to tell me what's wrong. One
> > person indicated
that it *may* come on at a preset interval for checking,
> > but I
don't know if that's true or not. Another indicated that the
> >
dealer simply by running the diagnostics would turn it back off.
Again,
> > I don't know if that's true either. I asked the
mechanic this and he
> > indicated that this scenario only applied to
other vehicles like trucks
> > and such, not in this instance with this
system. Basically he told me
> > one of the sensors must be
bad. I'm not sure I beleive that either. I'm
> > curious,
how many miles do you have on yours? I just turned 108,5K.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Scott
> > '92
VR4
> >
> > >My SRS light is on and I was wondering if
anyone knew a way to reset
> > >it? I
> > >took
it to the dealer and they found that it was both rear wheel
> >
>sensors that
> > >had gotten iced up. They cleaned them
off and it went off. It's too
> > >warm for
> > >any
ice build up now. Maybe its moisture buildup? Any ideas?
>
>
> >
> >
___________________________________________________________________
> >
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> >
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
>
> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
> > For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> > http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
>
>
>
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>
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------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:57:18 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: SRS light
> What a coincidence! Mine has 108k
(kilometers) as well. I don't believe in
> coincidence, what about
you?
My SRS light has been on for 6 or 7 weeks since my battery
died. I have
93K miles on my '91.
I still haven't solicited help
from the other lists yet, but it seems
silly to have to pay for a diagnostic
just to reset the light.
- --
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three
lefts do!
Ken Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619)
455-4510
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:20:26 -0700
From: "Dave Allison" <dallison@siebel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: UPRD Dyno results in California
- -----Original
Message-----
From: R.G. [ mailto:robby@swissonline.ch <mailto:robby@swissonline.ch>
]
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 12:11 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Re: Team3S: UPRD Dyno results in California
The figures are in kW. Taking
your wheel reading of 197 (I come to the 227
later) these are 147kW, only
around 39kW (52.3hp) less than our readings.
Using
a loss of around 77.0kW
this equals to around 300hp flywheel uncorrected.
Trying
to correct it to
SAE results in 337hp SAE. As the correction factor is more
wrong in the
"lower" hp area you'll read around 330hp SAE. A 10hp gain with
intake and
exhaust... well, let's say only the intake and a good engine
as
the
exhaust dosn't help anything in this boost area. My calculations
assume your
wheel readings are not corrected to anything.
Ok,
let's take the 227hp now that equals in 169.3kW, +77kW loss =
246.3kW
(~16kW
less than we had). Now with the correction factor this
results in 370hp SAE
flywheel.
Analysing the given data from you tells
me the following story :
1. As your max power was around 5100-5400 the BC
has not finished to learn.
Correct me if I'm wrong but these are typical
indicies for this.
2. Your reading could be ok as the non-stock exhaust
hurts more than it
really
helps. It would be very important to see the
torque data (curve) as well
as
the power curve in the 5500
region.
3. If the timing got retarded after 5400 it's possible that the
engine is
running in early detonation causing to lower the power
then.
4. If the dyno is the problem than extrapolate your reading to our
curves
and
you'll end around 382hp SAE at 5500-5600. This is absolutely
possible and
not inaccurate if your boost readings on the meter was
ok.
Here's the funnny thing. I didn't mention
this beforehand, because I didn't
want to "lead the witness". I was thinking
the same thing you guys were as
far as the calculations you offered. While I
was standing there at the dyno,
watching the car fly throught its' gears, I
saw the 'ROAD HP' figure peak at
266 for an instant. I immediately made a
noise to indicate I was impressed
and expected to see this on the printed
results. Unfortunately, once the
results were displayed on the screen I
noticed that instead of the peak 266
that I had seen on the screen, there was
only a peak of 227. I was a bit
puzzled and asked the mechanic what the hell
happened to the 266 I saw on
the screen. He shrugged his shoulders and said,
"Um... I dunno, maybe it was
a spike". I'm beginning to think that the
mechanic was measuring the wrong
rpm range the whole time. At 5100-5400 I may
indeed have been making 227
Road HP, but especially with the aftermarket
exhaust and intake I should
have been seeing the peak HP at a higher rpm
range. I'm guessing the dyno,
which was setup to only record the RPM ranges
and HP readings at 80, 85, 90,
and 95mph speeds, was not sampling at the
correct RPM range for peak
horsepower... somewhere around 6000-6100.
Now, I'm a little bit confused about the S-AVCR. You say that you've set
it
to
1.00 bars but have you driven it around a while to let it learn the
proper
curve
? Also you haven't said anything about the boost the meter
peaked on the
dyno
and this is the first important thing. The second one
are the EGT readings
and
finally readings of the intake temperatures for
the comparison would be
great
too.
They had only finished
setting up the BC a few minutes before the last dyno
run. I can almost
guarantee the unit had not properly learned the boost
envelope. But according
to others on the list, this would have actually
caused boost spikes and
overshoot, rather than hurting the performance.
Anyway, what kinda
numbers are we talking about once you use your voodoo
formulas on the 266
"spike"?
Thanks.
Dave
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
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------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:25:59 -0700
From: "Dave Allison" <dallison@siebel.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: UPRD Dyno results in California
Sorry for the format of my
previous post. It didn't seem to post correctly
in HTML format. Here is the
corrected post:
> Thank you very much for your report, and I'm sorry
that
> you've been used by UPRD
> to learn more about their dyno.
But welcome to the club ! I
> just remember our
> Supra friend that
tried to dyno his automatic :)
>
> Regarding your dyno number
these are the numbers from Jim,
> Mike and me :
>
> rpm loss wheel
fly DIN
> Mike 6230, 78.0, 184, 262.0, 264
> Jim 5680, 79.5, 185, 264.5, 266
> Roger 5450, 73.5,
188, 261.5, 263
>
> The figures are in kW. Taking your wheel
reading of 197 (I
> come to the 227
> later) these are 147kW, only
around 39kW (52.3hp) less than
> our readings. Using
> a loss of
around 77.0kW this equals to around 300hp flywheel
> uncorrected.
Trying
> to correct it to SAE results in 337hp SAE. As the correction
> factor is more
> wrong in the "lower" hp area you'll read around
330hp SAE. A
> 10hp gain with
> intake and exhaust... well, let's
say only the intake and a
> good engine as the
> exhaust dosn't
help anything in this boost area. My
> calculations assume your
>
wheel readings are not corrected to anything.
>
> Ok, let's take
the 227hp now that equals in 169.3kW, +77kW
> loss = 246.3kW
(~16kW
> less than we had). Now with the correction factor this
>
results in 370hp SAE
> flywheel.
>
> Analysing the given data
from you tells me the following story :
>
> 1. As your max power
was around 5100-5400 the BC has not
> finished to
learn.
> Correct me if I'm wrong but these are typical
indicies for this.
>
> 2. Your reading could be ok as the non-stock
exhaust hurts
> more than it really
> helps. It
would be very important to see the torque data
> (curve) as well
as
> the power curve in the 5500 region.
>
> 3. If the timing got retarded after 5400 it's possible that
>
the engine is
> running in early detonation causing to
lower the power then.
>
> 4. If the dyno is the problem than
extrapolate your reading
> to our curves and
>
you'll end around 382hp SAE at 5500-5600. This is
> absolutely possible
and
> not inaccurate if your boost readings on the meter
was ok.
Here's the funnny thing. I didn't mention this beforehand,
because I didn't
want to "lead the witness". I was thinking the same thing
you guys were as
far as the calculations you offered. While I was standing
there at the dyno,
watching the car fly throught its' gears, I saw the 'ROAD
HP' figure peak at
266 for an instant. I immediately made a noise to indicate
I was impressed
and expected to see this on the printed results.
Unfortunately, once the
results were displayed on the screen I noticed that
instead of the peak 266
that I had seen on the screen, there was only a peak
of 227. I was a bit
puzzled and asked the mechanic what the hell happened to
the 266 I saw on
the screen. He shrugged his shoulders and said, "Um... I
dunno, maybe it was
a spike". I'm beginning to think that the mechanic was
measuring the wrong
rpm range the whole time. At 5100-5400 I may indeed have
been making 227
Road HP, but especially with the aftermarket exhaust and
intake I should
have been seeing the peak HP at a higher rpm range. I'm
guessing the dyno,
which was setup to only record the RPM ranges and HP
readings at 80, 85, 90,
and 95mph speeds, was not sampling at the correct RPM
range for peak
horsepower... somewhere around 6000-6100.
> Now,
I'm a little bit confused about the S-AVCR. You say that
> you've set it
to
> 1.00 bars but have you driven it around a while to let it
>
learn the proper curve
> ? Also you haven't said anything about the boost
the meter
> peaked on the dyno
> and this is the first important
thing. The second one are the
> EGT readings and
> finally readings
of the intake temperatures for the
> comparison would be great
>
too.
>
They had only finished setting up the BC a few minutes
before the last dyno
run. I can almost guarantee the unit had not properly
learned the boost
envelope. But according to others on the list, this would
have actually
caused boost spikes and overshoot, rather than hurting the
performance.
Anyway, what kinda numbers are we talking about once you use
your voodoo
formulas on the 266
"spike"?
Thanks.
Dave
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:06:56 -0700
From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: UPRD Dyno results in California
Dave Allison
wrote:
snip
> >
> > Regarding your dyno number these are
the numbers from Jim,
> > Mike and me :
> >
>
> rpm loss wheel
fly DIN
> > Mike 6230, 78.0, 184, 262.0,
264
> > Jim 5680, 79.5, 185, 264.5, 266
> > Roger
5450, 73.5, 188, 261.5, 263
> >
snip
> Anyway, what kinda
numbers are we talking about once you use your voodoo
> formulas on the
266 "spike"?
According to the numbers above, Mikes loss was 78kW / 262kW
= .2977 or
29.77%, Jims loss was 79.5 / 264.5 = 30.06%, and Roger's loss was
73.5 /
261.5 = 28.11% for an average loss of 29.33%. So an average
wheel HP to
flywheel HP multiplier is 1 / ( 1.00 - .2933 ) = 1.41.
Since your wheel
HP was obtained in Hunington Beach, you probably don't need
to correct
for altitude. So just multiply your spike out: 266 *
1.41 ~= 376.
Still seems too low. I think there were dyno operator
errors... :(
- --
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts
do!
Ken Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:38:42 EDT
From: SoCoDrnkr@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S:
wheels and tires
leland
Sorry about the lasty reply i got cut
off. Any way bigger rims and lower
profile tires won't do much
performance wise. It is many for the killer
looks. Remember if
you decide to drop the vehicle (which I will be doing
shortly with this set
up) I recommend Tokico shocks and Eibach coil overs. I
am going to try
the adjustable ones. The total set up (w/o adjustable)
should be
around $500 with the adjustable ones it should be around $6-700.
Good
luck and get back with me when youo do so I can see just how good it
works.
Dan
91ES
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:59:30 -0400
From: Leland Gray <grayda@erols.com>
Subject: Team3S: TO
ALL YOU STEALTH/3000GT ENTHUSIASTS!
I don't know what kind of jobs all of
you have to support your addiction
to your car, but I have found it hard to
support my habit. How would
like to earn enough money to support your
current car, whatever it may
be, and go out there and buy the new 1999 VR-4
that just came out? And
modify that one too without having to worry
about the money! Check out
this website that will present you with the
means to do this.
www.countdown9199.com
Email be to tell me what you think, and if you
are
interested.
PLEASE!! Email ME only.. PLEASE DO NOT POST THIS
BACK TO THE LIST.
On a separate note.. I think I have decided to pursue a
set of Enkei
Wun-Gun's and some Nitto NT555's for my baby..
Leland
Gray
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 15 Apr 1999 01:07:57 EDT
From: TrAmSoOtRu@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S:
wheels and tires
Dan,
When do you plan on doing this? How low are
you planning on going? I am about
at this stage with my car, and have yet to
do anything to it.. What all have
you done to your car? I am new to this
list and would like to introduce
myself... I'm Jeff, jeff Williams.. I drive
a 93 White ES with 17" TR
Motorsport Typhoon wheels, Pioneer 815 Cd head
unit, Pioneer DeQ 7200,
Pioneer 4 way 6x9's and more in the works. Ohh yeh..
I took the resonator
off.. : ) But that's it.. I'm just getting started and
would love to hear any
comments..
Jeff..
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