--
From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #141
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To:
owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence:
bulk
Team3S
Digest Friday, April 2
1999 Volume 01 : Number
141
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:59:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Dennis Moore <stealth@kiva.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Erebuni ground effects kit -Reply
Anybody know if aerodynamics testing
has been performed on these or any
other ground efects kits? They
*look* cool, but do they help/hurt fuel
economy/top speed/etc?
Dennis
Moore
stealth@kiva.net
Experience is
something you don't get until just after you need it.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 01 Apr 1999 15:17:31 -0500
From: Gavin Wallis <WallisG@mwaa.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Erebuni ground effects kit -Reply -Reply
The front has been created with
aerodynamics in mind. How much over
stock, I dunno. But upon inspection and
review of the unit personally
with Erebuni, I confidently believe it's
aerodynamics would only be
relevant at 100mph+ speeds. Not a concern for most
people.
IMHO I would guess the front of Erebuni to be better. For 1 it
is
fiberglass, not poly-e. Thus it doesn't really flex making its' cut into
the
oncoming wind pressure a little more efficient. Additionally the shapes
of
Erebuni kit are much sharper. However the air ducts are much
larger,
which is wind hitting a flat surface.
Lets review: I know
nothing, this letter was just a lot of
speculative
rambling.
Gavin
'94 Black VR-4 with some weird thing on
the front of the car
>>> Dennis Moore <stealth@kiva.net> 04/01/99 02:59pm
>>>
Anybody know if aerodynamics testing has been performed on these
or
any
other ground efects kits? They *look* cool, but do they
help/hurt fuel
economy/top speed/etc?
Dennis Moore
stealth@kiva.net
Experience is
something you don't get until just after you need it.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 01 Apr 1999 20:22:08 -0500
From: William Lynn Larsen <wlarsen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
K&N Aircharger instead of K&N FIPK
Mark,
Do you or does
anyone out there know if this will fit the NA MAS??
I have been considering
this, if it will fit my '93 NA DOHC.
Regards,
Lynn
"Wendlandt,
Mark (MN51)" wrote:
>
> A while ago, there was a discussion about
using an Aircharger from a '95-'98
> Eclipse on our Stealths and
VR4s. Well...I bought the Aircharger for
> 80bucks and installed it.
The Aircharger is much larger than the FIPK and I
> had to modify the
bracket(drilled one hole) to mount the filter firmly to
> the fender well
so it didn't move. It took me about 1/2hr to install.
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 01 Apr 1999 21:03:43 -0500
From: Jason and Cristy Barnhart <phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Turbo upgrade question
Gavin,
15gs will flow more air
(cfm) than a stock turbo at the same pressure (psi). Tthis is
very
important, you can get more air at equal pressures, requiring more fuel.
It seems
to me that psi is more relevant when comparing 2 identicle
setups. Intake or exhaust
changes can change the psi if I'm not
mistaken. Better flowing exhaust could lower psi,
but raise cfm and
power. I think too many people are depending on psi to make
decisions
where psi isn't the important factor.
This is all
information that I've gathered by reading the list, I'm not sure about
the
accuracy and have been waiting for the more knowledgable guys to
elaborate.
Jason
Gavin Wallis wrote:
> If I were to put
15g's in my car now...without making the necessary fuel
> management mods
and boost mods, would I necessarily be hurting
> anything?
>
>
I assume that the 15g's will simply hold stock 12.5psi boost to the
redline
> and I will not be in any danger of running lean.
>
>
So...any benefits? any dangers?
>
> Thanks,
> Gavin
>
'94 Black VR-4
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:28:56 -0600
From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Camber fix for lowering springs
>the low down on how to fix the
negative camber created by lowering
>springs.
>On the front you must
elongate the shock tower mounting holes to give
>extra positive camber.
This means make the holes longer toward the
>engine bay, not toward the
wheel.
My thinking is different: Camber angle is the tilt of the
centerline of the
wheel with respect to vertical, and that outward tilt of
the top of the
wheel is defined as positive camber angle. Unless there's
something
askew in my understanding, the mounting holes (the holes in the
sheet
metal where the three strut mounting bolts stick through) would have
to
be elongated in a direction AWAY from the engine to decrease
negative
camber.
>The rear you must elongate the sub frame
where the lower control arm
>attaches near the differential. The upper arm
has the cam adjuster for
>the camber adjustment and the lower is fixed.
Again, don't widen, just
>elongate, this time toward the
wheel.
Here,again, if I understand what you are saying, extending the
lower
arm toward the wheel would result in increased negative camber
by
moving the lower part of the wheel outward.
One of us is mixed up;
some one tell us who.
Regards, ptg
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:40:28 -0600
From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Camber fix for lowering springs
>On the front you must elongate the
shock tower mounting holes to give
>extra positive camber. This means make
the holes longer toward the
>engine bay, not toward the wheel. The rear
you must elongate the sub frame
where the lower control arm
>attaches
near the differential.
I believe you may have the polarity of these mods
reversed. If I
understand, both mods would increase negative
camber. You
(or someone) correct me if I'm wrong.
Regards,
ptg
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 1 Apr 1999 22:33:53 -0600
From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Concequences of Cat Removal
This is a multi-part message in MIME
format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_00C2_01BE7C8F.B8A8F280
Content-Type:
text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
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All-
I would like to know what concequences result
from removal (or =
gutting)of=20
either the main cat, and/or the pre-cats
on a '95 VR-4. Viz: What does =
the=20
ECU do differently as a
result of the changed 02 sensor outputs?
Much thanks for any
explanations.
Regards, ptg
-
------=_NextPart_000_00C2_01BE7C8F.B8A8F280
Content-Type:
text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3
HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META
content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1
=
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"'
name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000
size=3D2>All-</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000
size=3D2>I would like to know what =
concequences result=20
from
removal (or gutting)of </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#000000 size=3D2>either the </FONT><FONT
=
color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>main cat, and/or the pre-cats on a '95
VR-4. Viz: =
What does=20
the
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>ECU
do </FONT><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>differently as a
result of the changed 02 sensor
=
outputs?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000
size=3D2>Much thanks for any
=
explanations.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Regards,
=
ptg</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-
------=_NextPart_000_00C2_01BE7C8F.B8A8F280--
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 01 Apr 1999 22:49:05 -0600
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Turbo upgrade question
Jason and Cristy Barnhart
wrote:
> 15gs will flow more air (cfm) than stock turbo
at same psi. you can get more air at
> equal pressures,
requiring more fuel. psi is more relevant comparing 2 identical
setups.
> Intake or exhaust
> changes can change the psi.
Better flowing exhaust could lower psi,
> but raise cfm and power. I
think too many people are depending on psi to make decisions
> where psi
isn't the important factor.
> This is all information that
I've gathered by reading the list, I'm not sure about the
> accuracy and
have been waiting for the more knowledgable guys to
elaborate.
>
Jason and Gavin:
1) 15G with 12psi to redline
PROBably won't hurt anything dragracing, with short duration
full
throttle.
15G are capable of much more to
redline, and stock injectors (360cc) are not big
enough to give enough fuel
to support this boost, so will lean out and damage things IF you
go to too
high a boost at too high an rpm (airflow value). You can use 20psi at
3000rpm and
be fine because airflow there is (ROUGHly) the same as 10psi at
6000rpm, so ROUGHly same
fuel requirement. However, _20psi_ at 6000rpm
means filling those 3 liters with air twice
as many times per minute so twice
as many cfm so twice as much fuel needed, and so your
injectors get to be too
small. Also, stock fuelpump gets inadequate (though I've never
heard of
someone blowing up primarily due to fuelpump; most are smart enough to upgrade
it
with the big turbo/injectors move).
2) The SHORT answer is
that 15G do NOT flow any more _cfm_ at the same psi as stock turbos
but they
do flow slightly more _AIR_. Flow = Pressure x Resistance. Increase
pressure 2x =
2x increase flow. Resistance in engine is represented by
ductwork leading from turbo OUTLET
(does NOT include turbo) to the inside of
the cylinder. Changing the TURBO (pressure
source) does NOT change
Pressure value (remember we are saying PSI is CONSTANT)...does not
change
Resistance...so does not change cfm Flow.
HOW EVER, where people
sometimes make mistake, the cfm Flowed will be COOLER=DENSER AIR
with a
bigger/more efficient turbo Compressor section (15G vs stock 9B), so though the
cfm
is SAME, that SAME cubic foot of air has more AIR MOLECULES in it (more
O2) so DOES give
more power/need a little more fuel to remain at proper
Air:Fuel ratio (note "proper" in this
real case is NOT stoichiometric, it is
far richer). The difference in heat is NOT totally
gigantic but is
real. Any gas compressed heats up a predetermined amount at a
minimum; the
efficiency of the compressor imparts an ADDITIONAL heat load
into the compressed charge.
The more efficient the compressor, the less EXTRA
heat added, the denser the charge.
NOTE: this effect is decreased
by INTERCOOLING, because though the smaller turbos heat the
air up more, this
greater delta T across the intercooler means the intercoolers SHED more
heat
also. Doesn't quite make up for the lower temps by bigger turbos to begin
with, but
effect is mitigated somewhat.
3) Better flowing
exhaust generally will INCREASE boost pressure. Greater delta P
across
turbine wheel means turbo spins faster so compresses MORE air so
INCREASES boost so makes
MORE hp so makes MORE airflow/heat out exhaust so
makes FASTER turbo spin...etc... See
for
example: the plugged up catalytic converter car I tested had LOW
boost. Cleaning out
cat (better flowing exhaust) markedly increased
boost and performance.
Jack Tertadian
> Gavin Wallis
wrote:
> > If I were to put 15g's in my car now...without making the
necessary fuel
> > management mods and boost mods, would I necessarily
be hurting anything?
> > I assume 15g simply hold stock 12.5psi boost
to redline
> > and I will not be in danger of lean. Gavin 94 Black
VR-4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 1 Apr 1999 20:53:13 -0700
From: "james berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Turbo upgrade question
,
> 15gs will flow more air (cfm) than
a stock turbo at the same pressure
(psi). Tthis is
>very
important, you can get more air at equal pressures, requiring
more
fuel. It seems
>to me that psi is more relevant when
comparing 2 identicle setups. Intake
or exhaust
>changes can
change the psi if I'm not mistaken. Better flowing exhaust
could lower
psi,
>but raise cfm and power.
Your first sentence contains a
significent issue --- 15gs WILL flow more
air ---
the real point is that
the 15Gs CAN flow more air at a specified pressure.
Whether or not they will
flow is dependant on the throttel body, head flow
characteristics,exhaust
flow RPM, etc. The stock turbo WILL provide its 15
PSI
untill it reaches
its limit of about 300 CFM. The 15G WILL provide its 15
PSI
untill it
reaches its limit of 400 CFM. The CFM required WILL be determined
by the
engine.
Jim Berry
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 01 Apr 1999 23:04:06 -0600
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Turbo upgrade question
xwing wrote:
> Flow =
Pressure x Resistance
Oops. Actual: Flow = Pressure /
Resistance. Pressure = Flow x
Resistance.
JT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 02 Apr 1999 00:21:45 -0500
From: Ron Thompson <rtetetet@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Camber fix for lowering springs
> My thinking is
different: Camber angle is the tilt of the centerline of the wheel with
respect to vertical, and that outward tilt of the top of the wheel is defined as
positive camber angle.
Yes Paul, but lowering springs cause negative
camber, or squat, not
positive camber. Did you actually read my response last
time with the
ASCII illustration?
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 1 Apr 1999 23:52:11 -0600
From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Camber fix for lowering springs
>> My thinking is different:
Camber angle is the tilt of the centerline of
the wheel with respect to
vertical, and that outward tilt of the top of the
wheel is defined as
positive camber angle.
>
>Yes Paul, but lowering springs cause
negative camber, or squat, not
>positive camber.
Yes, lowering
springs frequently cause excessive negative camber.
To reduce excessive
negative camber, steps must be taken to move
the top of the wheels AWAY from
the engine in front. In the rear,
the bottom struts must be SHORTENED
to reduce the negative camber
The way to do this is to do the OPPOSITE of
what you suggest,
and move the top of the wheel OUTWARD, in front, and
the bottom
of the wheel INWARD at the rear.
Regards, ptg
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 02 Apr 1999 07:22:19 +0200
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Erebuni ground effects kit
Gavin Wallis wrote:
>
> The front has been created with aerodynamics in mind. How much
over
> stock, I dunno. But upon inspection and review of the unit
personally
> with Erebuni, I confidently believe it's aerodynamics would
only be
> relevant at 100mph+ speeds. Not a concern for most
people.
Ha! :-)
> IMHO I would guess the front of Erebuni
to be better. For 1 it is
> fiberglass, not poly-e. Thus it doesn't really
flex making its' cut into the
> oncoming wind pressure a little more
efficient. Additionally the shapes of
> Erebuni kit are much sharper.
However the air ducts are much larger,
> which is wind hitting a flat
surface.
I would think that the further the front deviates from a smooth,
rounded
shape, the higher the Cd. If this new front incorporates
bigger
ducting, then aerodynamics will certainly suffer. However, if
the
improved ducting gets fresh, cool air to the front brakes and flows
more
air through the intercoolers, then the benefits may outweigh
the
drawbacks.
Is there a picture of this thing out there
anywhere? I'm curious to see
how it looks.
- --
Jim Matthews
- Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de
(64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top
Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb
99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 02 Apr 1999 01:16:56 -0500
From: Ron Thompson <rtetetet@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Camber fix for lowering springs
Yes again Paul, but you are
dwelling on the original post I made where
I was correcting for POSITIVE
camber, not NEGATIVE. I corrected that
at your urging. I don't recommend
"shortening" the control arm, but
rather adding adjustment to the control arm
pivot point.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 2 Apr 1999 00:22:36 -0600
From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Camber fix for lowering springs
>Yes Paul, but lowering springs cause
negative camber, or squat, not
>positive camber. Did you actually read my
response last time with the
>ASCII illustration?
Yes I read your
last response. Lowering springs DO cause negative
camber. And the
mods you describe will add MORE negative camber.
Obviously, if the negative
camber resulting from using lowering
springs is excessive,(often the case),
you must adjust the geometry to
REDUCE the negative camber, which requires
doing the OPPOSITE
of what you suggest. This is my last comment on this
subject! I suggest
you talk to someone who understands suspension geometry
and
knows what camber, toe, steering axis inclination, and caster are,
and
how they are related.
Regards, ptg
.
Regards, ptg
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 02 Apr 1999 11:44:29 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: g p on the clutch
Ron,
> Roger, are you sure, the RPS
link only shows to 94 or 95. If they will
> fit a 96 VR4, I'll sign
up.
Yes, these are only two differernt clutches for all years and
models.
Let me know what RPS clutch you'd like to have and I sign you
up.
Regards,
Roger
- -----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
K&N FIPK,Magnecor
wires,Blitz DSBC/gauge/Dual Timer,Apexi AFC,HKS SBOV,
ATR DP/ tespipe,Borla
Cat-back,OZ Mito2 rims,Yoko AVS-Z1,braided brake lines,
Bremsa brakes,Pagid
RS-R pads
Check out: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/3000gt.html
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 02 Apr 1999 12:01:32 +0200
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject:
Team3S: RPS clutch Group Purchase ! I need more ...
Friends,
The
closing date for the Group Purchase on teh RPS clutch comes closer and
closer
and we are only about 8 who want to get one :/ Remember, the closing date
is
Sunday April 4th 1999 and after this the price will be back to normal
price.
Time is limited because the clutches are already on backorder and
we hope that
they will be shipped after a month when the order is placed. Any
jump onto the
GP after the closing date is not possible. So leave the easter
eggs and
chocolate bunnies where tehy are and get an RPS CLutch for your car,
hehe.
Check the GP page under
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/group_purchase.html
I
hope this helps a little in money saving
Regards,
Roger
-
-----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo
(Animale Rosso)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 02 Apr 1999 10:15:16 -0500
From: William Lynn Larsen <wlarsen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Turbo upgrade question
Just a technical point, not to get into the debate
over which turbos,
but the real bottom line is the total number of oxygen
molocules that
are in the combustion chamber, therefore flow and psi are both
envolved
since: flow is a measure of volume per time and psi is directly
related
to the number of oxygen molucules in a given amount of volume;
therefore
as flow rates and psi increase so do the total number of
oxygen
molocules in the cylinder at the time the both intake and exhaust
valves
close and the compression stroke starts. It is true that a free
flowing
exhaust (one with little back pressure) can make it more difficult
to
get the pressure part of the equation up, it will certainly raise
the
flow rate side. So there is a tradeoff going on there. (As an
aside-
the timing of feul injector spray in relation to when the valves
close
can cause some of the feul load to be lost out of the exhaust before
the
exhaust valve closes and this can be made up for by over feuling
causing
some loss of feul efficency.) A true mechanical engineer (I am
a
computer engineer, although I had to take all the core physics
courses
like any other engineer) would be able to calculate the exact point
that
yields the max number of O2 molocules in the chamber while at the
same
time balancing the loss of feul with the increase in efficency of
the
feul that actually burns.
My
$0.02
Regards,
Lynn
Jason and Cristy Barnhart wrote:
>
> Gavin,
> 15gs will flow more air (cfm) than a stock
turbo at the same pressure (psi). Tthis is
> very important, you can
get more air at equal pressures, requiring more fuel. It seems
> to
me that psi is more relevant when comparing 2 identicle setups. Intake or
exhaust
> changes can change the psi if I'm not mistaken. Better
flowing exhaust could lower psi,
> but raise cfm and power. I think
too many people are depending on psi to make decisions
> where psi isn't
the important factor.
> This is all information that I've
gathered by reading the list, I'm not sure about the
> accuracy and have
been waiting for the more knowledgable guys to elaborate.
>
>
Jason
>
> Gavin Wallis wrote:
>
> > If I were to
put 15g's in my car now...without making the necessary fuel
> >
management mods and boost mods, would I necessarily be hurting
> >
anything?
> >
> > I assume that the 15g's will simply hold
stock 12.5psi boost to the redline
> > and I will not be in any danger
of running lean.
> >
> > So...any benefits? any
dangers?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Gavin
> > '94
Black VR-4
> > For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 02 Apr 1999 10:21:33 -0500
From: William Lynn Larsen <wlarsen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Turbo upgrade question
Boy do I feel silly now -- What Jack
said!
Regards,
Lynn
xwing wrote:
>
> Jason and
Cristy Barnhart wrote:
>
> > 15gs will flow more air
(cfm) than stock turbo at same psi. you can get more air
at
> > equal pressures, requiring more fuel. psi is more relevant
comparing 2 identical setups.
> > Intake or exhaust
> >
changes can change the psi. Better flowing exhaust could lower
psi,
> > but raise cfm and power. I think too many people are
depending on psi to make decisions
> > where psi isn't the important
factor.
> > This is all information that I've gathered by
reading the list, I'm not sure about the
> > accuracy and have been
waiting for the more knowledgable guys to elaborate.
> >
>
> Jason and Gavin:
> 1) 15G with 12psi to redline PROBably
won't hurt anything dragracing, with short duration
> full
throttle.
> 15G are capable of much
more to redline, and stock injectors (360cc) are not big
> enough to give
enough fuel to support this boost, so will lean out and damage things IF
you
> go to too high a boost at too high an rpm (airflow value). You
can use 20psi at 3000rpm and
> be fine because airflow there is (ROUGHly)
the same as 10psi at 6000rpm, so ROUGHly same
> fuel requirement.
However, _20psi_ at 6000rpm means filling those 3 liters with air twice
>
as many times per minute so twice as many cfm so twice as much fuel needed, and
so your
> injectors get to be too small. Also, stock fuelpump gets
inadequate (though I've never
> heard of someone blowing up primarily due
to fuelpump; most are smart enough to upgrade it
> with the big
turbo/injectors move).
>
> 2) The SHORT answer is that 15G do
NOT flow any more _cfm_ at the same psi as stock turbos
> but they do flow
slightly more _AIR_. Flow = Pressure x Resistance. Increase pressure
2x =
> 2x increase flow. Resistance in engine is represented by
ductwork leading from turbo OUTLET
> (does NOT include turbo) to the
inside of the cylinder. Changing the TURBO (pressure
> source) does
NOT change Pressure value (remember we are saying PSI is CONSTANT)...does
not
> change Resistance...so does not change cfm Flow.
>
>
HOW EVER, where people sometimes make mistake, the cfm Flowed will be
COOLER=DENSER AIR
> with a bigger/more efficient turbo Compressor section
(15G vs stock 9B), so though the cfm
> is SAME, that SAME cubic foot of
air has more AIR MOLECULES in it (more O2) so DOES give
> more power/need
a little more fuel to remain at proper Air:Fuel ratio (note "proper" in
this
> real case is NOT stoichiometric, it is far richer). The
difference in heat is NOT totally
> gigantic but is real. Any
gas compressed heats up a predetermined amount at a minimum; the
>
efficiency of the compressor imparts an ADDITIONAL heat load into the compressed
charge.
> The more efficient the compressor, the less EXTRA heat added,
the denser the charge.
>
> NOTE: this effect is decreased by
INTERCOOLING, because though the smaller turbos heat the
> air up more,
this greater delta T across the intercooler means the intercoolers SHED
more
> heat also. Doesn't quite make up for the lower temps by
bigger turbos to begin with, but
> effect is mitigated somewhat.
>
> 3) Better flowing exhaust generally will INCREASE boost
pressure. Greater delta P across
> turbine wheel means turbo spins
faster so compresses MORE air so INCREASES boost so makes
> MORE hp so
makes MORE airflow/heat out exhaust so makes FASTER turbo
spin...etc... See
> for example: the plugged
up catalytic converter car I tested had LOW boost. Cleaning out
>
cat (better flowing exhaust) markedly increased boost and performance.
>
> Jack Tertadian
>
> > Gavin Wallis wrote:
> >
> If I were to put 15g's in my car now...without making the necessary
fuel
> > > management mods and boost mods, would I necessarily be
hurting anything?
> > > I assume 15g simply hold stock 12.5psi boost
to redline
> > > and I will not be in danger of lean. Gavin 94 Black
VR-4
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 02 Apr 1999 10:37:34 -0500
From: Gavin Wallis <WallisG@mwaa.com>
Subject: Team3S: RPS
clutch Group Purchase ! I need more ... -Reply
Did you hear if RPS has a
lightweight flywheel yet? I've heard _more_
horror stories about
resurfacing and old flywheel for carbons/kevlars.
Maybe we could just use
Bozz Chromolys? Or does anyone know how
much stock is?
Gavin
'94
Black VR-4
>>> "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch> 04/02/99 05:01am
>>>
Friends,
The closing date for the Group Purchase on teh
RPS clutch comes closer
and
closer and we are only about 8 who want to get
one :/ Remember, the
closing date
is Sunday April 4th 1999 and after this
the price will be back to normal
price.
Time is limited because the
clutches are already on backorder and we
hope that
they will be shipped
after a month when the order is placed. Any jump
onto the
GP after the
closing date is not possible. So leave the easter eggs and
chocolate bunnies
where tehy are and get an RPS CLutch for your car,
hehe.
Check the GP
page under
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/group_purchase.html
I
hope this helps a little in money saving
Regards,
Roger
-
-----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo
(Animale Rosso)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 02 Apr 1999 08:34:34 -0800
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re:
Team3S: RPS clutch Group Purchase ! I need more ...
-Reply
Group;
Gavin Wallis wrote:
> Did you hear if RPS
has a lightweight flywheel yet? I've heard _more_
> horror stories
about resurfacing and old flywheel for carbons/kevlars.
>
Can
anyone else confirm or deny this alleged problem? Has anyone here had this
problem
with carbon? Jack? Barry? Todd? Brad? et
all....
Best
Darc
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:39:21 -0600
From: Scott J Cowan <sjc0u812@juno.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Woes update -- the never ending saga and questions...
Hello to
all:
Many have asked me to update my situation now that I've had the
infamous
clutch vacuum booster installed...so here's a brief recap of events
and
my take on the friggin' thing.
*June of last year, clutch, throw
out bearing, pressure plate and fly
wheel replaced
*Not long after, seized
throw out bearing replaced
*Master cylinder diagnosed as leaking,
replaced
*Leaking of master cylinder caused vacuum booster failed, it now
replaced
IMHO, it is only marginally better at best, still loose pedal
pressure
coming out of speed or under hard acceleration.
Here's
some fun new things that have happened since the booster change:
1.)
Somehow, the snake eyes mod is acting bass-akwards. Now, in order
to
get the lights to pop up, I must have the lights turned off. But,
after
I do pop them up, then turn on the lights, I can hit the pop up
button,
and when I turn the lights off, the pop ups will go down as if no
mod.
In the words of the great sayer of sooth, "what the f....?"
2.)
The climate control system seems to have a mind of it's own now.
Literally. I typically never have it set on auto, always outside
air,
and no a/c, I want the hp. Normally, I set the mode depending if I
want
heat or cool air, i.e., to the feet or torso. Get this, I get in
and
start the car, I watch the display, the air for a brief period of
time
comes out on the glass, then it moves -- by itself -- to the torso
and
feet, the past two days, a red at the feet, blue at the torso.
I've
owned the car going on two years now, I've never see it do this before.
I repeat the infamous words....
3.) Lastly, I had the dealer install
a noise suppressor for me a few
weeks ago, and yes they did it twice. I
have one of those flat plate
radios with all the adjustments (I believe you
audio aficionados call
that a double-din?), love all the gadgets, but was
getting a bad what I
would call alternator whine when using the tape
deck. I noticed after
the first and second time, that the spacial
adjustments now worked
completely different whence playing a tape, versus the
radio or cd. I
found this peculiar. Then one day, it just all
shut down, and they redid
it. To my sup rise, the entire system now
"sounds better." Ibid. BUT
THERES MORE! The active aero
button now doesn't work as it should.
Normally, all winter and in lousy
weather, turn it off. Now, to my
surprise, at any speed when I simply
turn it on (not toggle all the way
to the left, the damn thing
activates.......????
So that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. If
anyone can help, or has
better theory, do spill.
Thanks, best regards,
happy Easter weekend (let's be careful out there),
etc.,
Scott
'92
VR4
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------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:15:29 -0500
From: "Meyer" <meyer2@erols.com>
Subject: Team3S: Fw:
RPS Clutch / flywheel
- -----Original Message-----
From: Meyer <meyer2@erols.com>
To: robby@swissonline.ch <robby@swissonline.ch>
Date:
Tuesday, March 30, 1999 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: RPS Clutch /
flywheel
>Roger,
>
>No, RPS does not make a flywheel
for our cars. However, I have something
>far superior to any other
flywheel on the market. The Mueller Billet
>Aluminum Flywheel!
This thing is very light, weighing in at 13lbs (custom
>11&12 lb units
avail.) Compared to the stock 25lb+ flywheel. It is a
one
>piece design that is made by mueller fabricators in CA. I can
offer these
>for the TT and the NT cars at $560TT and $550NT. Prices
may vary depending
>on the quantity. Let me
know.
>
>Check them out at: www.muellerfabricators.com
>
>
>Matt
>-----Original
Message-----
>From: R.G. <robby@swissonline.ch>
>To: Meyer
<meyer2@erols.com>
>Date:
Tuesday, March 30, 1999 4:35 PM
>Subject: Re: RPS Clutch /
flywheel
>
>
>>Another question came up
:
>>
>>Does RPS offer a lighter flywheel as well? I've been
interested in
>>this. Besides it would avoid having someone mess up
resurfacing the old
>>one, (which i've heard have to be perfect for a
kevlar/carbon). Any
>>comments/ideas?
>>
>>Currently
7 have agreed to the Turbo Carbon and 1 to the Carbon Claw
!
>>
>>Regards,
>>Roger
>>
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:12:38 -0500
From: Brian Danley <bcdmad@concentric.net>
Subject:
Team3S: FW: Oil Filter Study
Got this from our DSM list in Texas .. Kinda
interesting
- -----Original Message-----
From: Randy Nuckels
[mailto:randynet@ticnet.com]
Sent:
Friday, April 02, 1999 11:55 AM
To: ntexdsm@listbot.com
Subject: Oil Filter
Study
North Texas DSM List - ntex.dsm.org
http://members.xoom.com/minimopar/oilfilterstudy.html
This
is the most exhaustive unbiased oil filter study
I have ever seen. I
found this link on the digest a
few days ago.
It is a big web page
with lots of pictures and tables,
but he extensively reviews 23 differant oil
filters.
It is worth a read in my opinion.
Randy
Nuckels
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End
of Team3S Digest V1 #141
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