--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #135
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest          Friday, March 26 1999          Volume 01 : Number 135




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:44:06 -0700
From: "james berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: looking for spark plugs

>
>> The best price I've found so far is at Pep Boys at about $18 for the NGK
>
>As Barry mentioned, these plugs can be had for about $10 & change each.
>I also believe there was a post in reply to your original post that said
>they sell the plugs for $10.00, but I don't remember who sent it.
>
>A VR4 is expensive to maintain as you can see by the price of the
>plugs>


come on guys!!   these plugs should be good  for 60K miles.
Some quick math shows about 1/10 cent per mile. In terms of overall
cost per mile that ain't too bad.
P.S. if your cheep you could probably go 100,000.

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:54:50 -0700
From: "james berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RPS clutch Group Purchase !

>Friends, ... here's a little easter gift for your beloved car !
>
>More power = more problems with the stock clutch. This equation is very
true and
>therefore it's time for a new clutch. I shopped around a little bit and
found
>the "RPS TURBO CARBON" as one of the best solutions. Till today I only
heard
>good things about it and I think it's a really good choice.
>


I'll take one also -- I don't need it for a while but it looks like the
price
is right!! Question??  How streetable is the carbon? While my current
mods are modest,  I, like others have  big plans. [ a lottery win about
now would help ]. My car is driven daily by me and my wife and while it's
not our primary transportation it's the most fun.

      Jim Berry                    ------93     "arrest me red" Stealth
 TT -----
                   SSBC @  1.0 BAR, K&N FIPK, Magnecore wire, NGK @ .034
                             G--Tech    0 --60  4.75 sec.    1/4  13.3 @ 110
                                               [ suspension mods next ]

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:54:45 -0800
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Team3S: AVC-R installation (boost settings)

Hey Jason;

There may be some slight difference in your first generation installation over the
installation in Barry's, Jim's or Errin's second generation cars. Certainly the wiring
jacks in the ECU are different. So, perhaps you can run through a quick check list with
Jack, as I believe his is a first generation with an Apexi, and there may be a glitch
you/we are not catching that he worked out. I am still setting and resetting mine (1G)
for what I believe should be better optimum performance. It may  be as I noted
previously, that it needs an extended fine tuning self learn cycle, which I insistently
interrupt with new settings. And perhaps you are doing the same. Jack?

Best

Darc

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 23:22:13 -0500
From: Jason Barnhart <phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: AVC-R installation (boost settings)

wce@bc.sympatico.ca wrote:
>
> Hey Jason;
>
> There may be some slight difference in your first generation...

snip

Kinda doubt it, mine's a 94 :P  I ran it through the learning phase
again, took it out on the highway and nailed it through 3rd and part of
4th, then nailed it in 6th.  I did this a few times, and it seems to be
only dropping down to .7 most often now, although it did drop down to
.49 at one point.  It's hard to say, but it seems that it's staying at
or around 1 atmosphere longer.  Still kinda hard for me to say whether I
can actually feel a difference now, I don't drive it as hard as before
the mods, shift it kinda slowly now, so it might not feel quite as fast
due to that.  I wasn't able to spend much time with it, but it does seem
to want to max the injectors in 2nd for several seconds.  I haven't yet
changed my fuel filter, but would the ecu know that there wasn't as much
fuel getting to the injectors?  I was under the impression, that with
bigger injectors, the fuel mapping is the same.  That would tell me that
the ecu assumes that the injectors are the same and that the injectors
are getting the same amount of fuel and it wouldn't matter if the fuel
filter wasn't passing enough or not, it'd be maxxed anyway.  Am I wrong?

Jason
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:58:06 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: AVC-R installation (boost settings)

The ECU is programmed to deliver fuel based on airflow.  In closed loop mode
(where the ECU reads the O2 sensor voltage cross counts) the ECU will trim
fuel up or down in an attempt to get a close to optimal mixture based on its
internal maps.

The stock ECU fuel tables expect stock injectors.  With larger than stock
injectors, in open loop mode, and without some sort of "fuel computer", the
ECU will generate injector pulses appropriate for stock injectors and
therefore deliver too much fuel.  If you are running way too rich due to
uncorrected large injectors it could result in power loss.  The ECU will
still be operating on the assumption that smaller injectors are in place and
still think it is maxing out the injectors, even though way too much fuel
may be being delivered.  If the AVC-R is seeing 90% IDC or more it will drop
out of learn mode.

The duty cycle is a measure of the on time for the injectors.  So, the ECU
really doesn't know how much fuel is being delivered except by pulse width
and known flow rates for the stock injectors, all of which is hardcoded in
the ECU.

Also, stock turbos typically won't hold much more than 10-12 psi as the
engine RPMs approach redline.  On my '94 when it had stock turbos, 12 PSI
was the most I ever saw at 7000 RPM and it was usually a bit less.  However,
you should be seeing your 1.00 bar well above 5500 RPM.  If you have 15Gs
then 1.00 bar to redline would be expected.

Hope that helps.


Barry

> -----Original Message-----
>
> wce@bc.sympatico.ca wrote:
> >
> > Hey Jason;
> >
> > There may be some slight difference in your first generation...
>
> snip
>
> Kinda doubt it, mine's a 94 :P  I ran it through the learning phase
> again, took it out on the highway and nailed it through 3rd and part of
> 4th, then nailed it in 6th.  I did this a few times, and it seems to be
> only dropping down to .7 most often now, although it did drop down to
> .49 at one point.  It's hard to say, but it seems that it's staying at
> or around 1 atmosphere longer.  Still kinda hard for me to say whether I
> can actually feel a difference now, I don't drive it as hard as before
> the mods, shift it kinda slowly now, so it might not feel quite as fast
> due to that.  I wasn't able to spend much time with it, but it does seem
> to want to max the injectors in 2nd for several seconds.  I haven't yet
> changed my fuel filter, but would the ecu know that there wasn't as much
> fuel getting to the injectors?  I was under the impression, that with
> bigger injectors, the fuel mapping is the same.  That would tell me that
> the ecu assumes that the injectors are the same and that the injectors
> are getting the same amount of fuel and it wouldn't matter if the fuel
> filter wasn't passing enough or not, it'd be maxxed anyway.  Am I wrong?
>
> Jason

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 00:14:18 -0500
From: Jason Barnhart <phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: AVC-R installation (boost settings)

"Barry E. King" wrote:

> The stock ECU fuel tables expect stock injectors. 

One of my two problems is that the IDC is showing my injectors being
maxxed out for several seconds.  It was brought up that perhaps my fuel
filter wasn't passing enough fuel.  Sounds like a good idea, but I guess
I was right in thinking the ecu wouldn't know the difference, it'd max
the injectors either way.  If it is related to airflow, this would
explain how one time they maxxed, and then dropped down as the rpms
climbed.  I had the monitor switched to IDC, and didn't notice where the
leds where showing the boost, but I'm sure it was dropping, I've seen it
drop to .49 or lower at WOT.
 
> The duty cycle is a measure of the on time for the injectors. 

Hmm, so would the purpose of this setting be to adjust how long the
injectors spray?  If so, perhaps I need to drop it below 70 to lean it
some, but I don't have an a/f meter :(
 
> Also, stock turbos typically won't hold much more than 10-12 psi as the
> engine RPMs approach redline.  On my '94 when it had stock turbos, 12 PSI
> was the most I ever saw at 7000 RPM and it was usually a bit less.  However,
> you should be seeing your 1.00 bar well above 5500 RPM.  If you have 15Gs
> then 1.00 bar to redline would be expected.

10psi would be about .68 atmosphere, and it's dropped way below that.
It seems to be doing better this time, perhaps I just needed to give it
more learning time?  Any idea how long it takes to 'learn'?

BTW, I haven't yet thanked you for the extensive help, particularly in
installation.  The pictures you sent were extremely helpfull, and as you
said, everything just fell into place and made sense.

Jason
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 01:34:00 -0500
From: josesini <josesini@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: AVC-R installation (boost settings)

Jason,

One of the things I found helps the most is to make the hoses as short
as possible.  Also the setting in the AVCR is not for the IDC, it is for
its own solenoid.  I had great results with 1.0 bar at 70% in A and 1.05
bar at 84% in B.  The only problem is if you're using stock turbos,
after 5500 they will drop off to somewhere near 10-12 psi. 

- -Jose


Jason Barnhart wrote:
>
> "Barry E. King" wrote:
>
> > The stock ECU fuel tables expect stock injectors.
>
> One of my two problems is that the IDC is showing my injectors being
> maxxed out for several seconds.  It was brought up that perhaps my fuel
> filter wasn't passing enough fuel.  Sounds like a good idea, but I guess
> I was right in thinking the ecu wouldn't know the difference, it'd max
> the injectors either way.  If it is related to airflow, this would
> explain how one time they maxxed, and then dropped down as the rpms
> climbed.  I had the monitor switched to IDC, and didn't notice where the
> leds where showing the boost, but I'm sure it was dropping, I've seen it
> drop to .49 or lower at WOT.
>
> > The duty cycle is a measure of the on time for the injectors.
>
> Hmm, so would the purpose of this setting be to adjust how long the
> injectors spray?  If so, perhaps I need to drop it below 70 to lean it
> some, but I don't have an a/f meter :(
>
> > Also, stock turbos typically won't hold much more than 10-12 psi as the
> > engine RPMs approach redline.  On my '94 when it had stock turbos, 12 PSI
> > was the most I ever saw at 7000 RPM and it was usually a bit less.  However,
> > you should be seeing your 1.00 bar well above 5500 RPM.  If you have 15Gs
> > then 1.00 bar to redline would be expected.
>
> 10psi would be about .68 atmosphere, and it's dropped way below that.
> It seems to be doing better this time, perhaps I just needed to give it
> more learning time?  Any idea how long it takes to 'learn'?
>
> BTW, I haven't yet thanked you for the extensive help, particularly in
> installation.  The pictures you sent were extremely helpfull, and as you
> said, everything just fell into place and made sense.
>
> Jason
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 00:49:30 -0500
From: Jason Barnhart <phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: AVC-R installation (boost settings)

josesini wrote:
>
> Jason,
>
> One of the things I found helps the most is to make the hoses as short
> as possible.  Also the setting in the AVCR is not for the IDC, it is for
> its own solenoid.  I had great results with 1.0 bar at 70% in A and 1.05
> bar at 84% in B.  The only problem is if you're using stock turbos,
> after 5500 they will drop off to somewhere near 10-12 psi.

Yeah, my hoses are pretty short.  I could maybe hack a couple inches
off, but it'd look like crap.  There might be two feet of hose leading
to both sides of the solenoid valve, maybe a foot or so going to the
pressure sensor.  What does increasing the duty cycle of the solenoid
itself do?  I'm dropping well below 10-12 psi though.

Has anyone done this controller on a 2nd gen VR4 with a filter, and 3
gutted cats for mods?

Jason
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:22:28 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Dropping the pipes

> Actually, i'm thinking it will set a check engine light, because he was
> talking about doing this on a 95 model i belive. 95's have 02 sensors
> before and after the pre-cats, if you remove the cats, the ECU will know
> because the signals will be the same, before and after.

AFAIK only the Californian cars do have 2 O2 sensors in each path, but I'll
recheck when I'm getting my CD back :)

Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT TT


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:28:42 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RPS clutch Group Purchase !

Friends,

Please try to send the emails directly to for coordinating ! I also try to
answer the questions after checking back. I'll place a FAQ upon your questions
onto my homepage this weekend.

Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT TT


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:22:28 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Dropping the pipes

> Actually, i'm thinking it will set a check engine light, because he was
> talking about doing this on a 95 model i belive. 95's have 02 sensors
> before and after the pre-cats, if you remove the cats, the ECU will know
> because the signals will be the same, before and after.

AFAIK only the Californian cars do have 2 O2 sensors in each path, but I'll
recheck when I'm getting my CD back :)

Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT TT


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:28:42 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RPS clutch Group Purchase !

Friends,

Please try to send the emails directly to for coordinating ! I also try to
answer the questions after checking back. I'll place a FAQ upon your questions
onto my homepage this weekend.

Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT TT


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:37:22 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: looking for spark plugs

> come on guys!!   these plugs should be good  for 60K miles.
> Some quick math shows about 1/10 cent per mile. In terms of overall
> cost per mile that ain't too bad.
> P.S. if your cheep you could probably go 100,000.

Barry, on what boost and mods do your run your car ? Also have you ever figgled
around tuning in another ECU, injectors, etc. Some of us can tell you stories
about fouling the plugs with new mods not properly tuned in. This is why a lot
people are able to remove the intake plenum so fast, hehe.

Regards,
Roger,
93'3000GT TT


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:46:47 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: AVC-R installation (boost settings)

I haven't followed this thread and therefore forgive if the idea has been posted
already.

What about cleaning the fuel parts using an injector cleaner. This may not clean
the filter but definitely removes (or tries to remove) any carbon deposits on
the valves and in the chamber as well as it restores the spray pattern of the
injectors. It's maybe worth to try out a can and watching for any difference.

Regards,
Roger
93'3000GT TT

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 05:14:57 -0500
From: Jason Barnhart <phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: AVC-R installation (summary)

Roger Gerl wrote:

> What about cleaning the fuel parts using an injector cleaner. This may not clean
> the filter but definitely removes (or tries to remove) any carbon deposits on
> the valves and in the chamber as well as it restores the spray pattern of the
> injectors. It's maybe worth to try out a can and watching for any difference.

  It's not a bad idea, but I don't think it would solve the original
problem.  My problem is that the AVC-R is showing my injectors as being
maxxed out.  I've heard it's not good to run the injectors maxxed out,
or perhaps even over 90%.  Not for fear of detonation, but for possible
damage to the injectors.  If I'm understanding correctly, the ecu knows
not if the proper fuel is being given, it'll try to give the same amount
whether the filter or any other part is not passing enough fuel.  In
fact, It'd be maxxing 720cc injectors if I were using them.  Keep in
mind that my car runs perfectly smooth, just not as fast as I was
expecting, or not as big a difference as I would have expected.

  I have 91k miles, a weapon-r air filter, ngk plugs gapped to .035,
accel wires, and gutted cats (all 3).  I have 2, maybe 3
problems/disappointments/questions...  Should my injectors be maxxing
for several seconds, why does my boost drop as low as .49 atmosphere at
wot in upper rpms, and why does it not seem like I just jumped possibly
50 hp, even though the car idles and accelerates smooth as silk.  I'm
starting to think that the car is in fact faster, but I'm paying
attention to too many other things, like boost and IDC, to notice.  I
won't know for sure till I go to the track.  I'd previously run
13.36@102.54 with a 1.96 60' time.  I've since done plugs, wires, cats,
and the boost controller.  I don't see any reason why I couldn't turn a
possible mid 12 with a perfect launch, if in fact I'm getting the proper
boost.

  I'm kinda wondering if anyone else using the AVC-R had the same mods
as me at one point, on a 94+ if it's applicable.  I'm also wondering,
since my cats are gutted my exhaust would flow better, would this make
it harder to maintain boost as there is less restriction.  Even though
the boost might drop, I would still probably flow more air than with
cats, right?

thanks,
Jason
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:00:45 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: AVC-R installation (boost settings)

> -----Original Message-----
>
> > The duty cycle is a measure of the on time for the injectors.
>
> Hmm, so would the purpose of this setting be to adjust how long the
> injectors spray?  If so, perhaps I need to drop it below 70 to lean it
> some, but I don't have an a/f meter :(

The injector duty cycle (IDC) is an OBSERVATION (measurement) made by the
AVC-R.  The AVC-R does not and can not adjust the IDC.  It has a display
that allows you to see what the IDC is at.  Boost Actuator Duty Cycle (BADC)
is adjustable but that has nothing to do with the injectors.  The BADC is a
reflection of how often the boost solenoid needs to be cycled (turned on and
off or opened and closed) to maintain a given boost.

The manual does not state that you can set the IDC.  I am curious as to how
and why this myth continues to perpetuate.  Is someone spreading this
misinformation or is it some strange translation in the manual or ???  Just
curious...

> 10psi would be about .68 atmosphere, and it's dropped way below that.
> It seems to be doing better this time, perhaps I just needed to give it
> more learning time?  Any idea how long it takes to 'learn'?

If you are exceeding 90% IDC during learn mode the AVC-R will not learn.  It
is a safety feature built into the AVC-R.  Try making it learn at .80 bar
for kicks.  If that works gradually increase the boost (relearning at each
incrememnt) until it stops learning.

I also suggest that you run back through your installation and ensure that
all hoses are snug, not crimped or binding anywhere, and that there are no
leaks.  It is remotely possibly that there is something amiss in the
installation.

> BTW, I haven't yet thanked you for the extensive help, particularly in
> installation.  The pictures you sent were extremely helpfull, and as you
> said, everything just fell into place and made sense.

You are welcome.  Glad it went okay.

> Jason

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:27:29 -0600
From: Wayne <wala@hypertech-inc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Dropping the pipes

Iv'e seen many downpipes at a local junckyard here in memphis that have o2
sensors attached to them, so it must be all models, not just ca.

At 09:22 AM 3/26/99 +0100, you wrote:
>
>AFAIK only the Californian cars do have 2 O2 sensors in each path, but I'll
>recheck when I'm getting my CD back :)
>
>Regards,
>Roger
>93'3000GT TT


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:20:32 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Dropping the pipes

I would expect to see them in (at least) all 1996 and later models since the
additional redundant sensors are and ODBII requirement to ensure that cats
are woring properly.  They do not exist on the '94 non-Ca models.


Barry

> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> Iv'e seen many downpipes at a local junckyard here in memphis that have o2
> sensors attached to them, so it must be all models, not just ca.
>
> At 09:22 AM 3/26/99 +0100, you wrote:
> >
> >AFAIK only the Californian cars do have 2 O2 sensors in each
> path, but I'll
> >recheck when I'm getting my CD back :)
> >
> >Regards,
> >Roger
> >93'3000GT TT

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:39:16 -0600
From: Wayne <wala@hypertech-inc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Dropping the pipes

To elaborate a little more, I'm pretty sure having o2 sensors before AND
after the pre-cats is a feature of the On-Board Diagnostics (aka: OBD-II) ,
not california emissions. Because having a sensor behind the cat monitors
the performance of the cat, and tells the driver (via a check engine light)
when the cat needs to be replaced. I know for a fact that OBD-II equipped
GM vehicles have before and after sensors.

Wayne

At 08:27 AM 3/26/99 -0600, I wrote:
>Iv'e seen many downpipes at a local junckyard here in memphis that have o2
>sensors attached to them, so it must be all models, not just ca.


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:43:12 -0600
From: Wayne <wala@hypertech-inc.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Dropping the pipes

O.K. Cool, like i said in the original post; I'm not sure what year they
went to having 4 sensors. I guess the bottom line is, if you have 4 o2
sensors, you cannot hollow out the pre-cats without setting a check engine
light......But if you only have two, hollow away.......

At 07:20 AM 3/26/99 -0700, you wrote:
>I would expect to see them in (at least) all 1996 and later models since the
>additional redundant sensors are and ODBII requirement to ensure that cats
>are woring properly.  They do not exist on the '94 non-Ca models.
>
>
>Barry


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:33:32 -0600
From: Trevor James <trevorlj@feist.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Dropping the pipes

I know the 96's are 50 state emissions compliant. I wonder if they all have 4 O2
sensors.

Trevor
96 R/T TT
91 R/T TT

Wayne wrote:

> Iv'e seen many downpipes at a local junckyard here in memphis that have o2
> sensors attached to them, so it must be all models, not just ca.
>
> At 09:22 AM 3/26/99 +0100, you wrote:
> >
> >AFAIK only the Californian cars do have 2 O2 sensors in each path, but I'll
> >recheck when I'm getting my CD back :)
> >
> >Regards,
> >Roger
> >93'3000GT TT
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:51:11 -0500
From: Jason and Cristy Barnhart <phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: AVC-R installation (boost settings)

  Ok, two questions...  Think it's normal for me to max my injectors out?  How do I know
when it's done learning?

I think I may have been confused between IDC and BADC because of the 'DC' part, and also
the fact that I wasn't too familiar with the terminology used.

I thought it was over, I was able to hold .80 through 3rd gear maxxing out the
injectors, but in 2nd it dropped to .5*, I guess it was never learning at all.

thanks again,
Jason

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:01:49 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: AVC-R installation (boost settings)

For stock injectors, no fuel management device, and a decent running VR4,
yes I would expect to see the injectors maxed out or close to it at high
boost.  However, your car doesn't seem to be getting into that territory.  I
was able to get my VR4 when it was stock to learn at 16 psi, and when I set
it to ridiculously high boost it would max out around 18 psi without falling
back other than what would be attributable to the curve of the stock
blowers.

At what RPMs are you seeing these boost levels?  It is normal for the stock
turbos to drop boost down at higher RPMs.  Lower gears also tend to build
less boost.  You'll see the most boost during extended higher gears runs,
but I would think you should be seeing 1.00 bar pretty easily in any case
(except in first and *maybe* second, but in second you should see 10-12 psi
anyway if not more).

As suggested previously, recheck everything and try again.  There is some
exp,anation for this, may as well eliminate the obvious stuff first.

I strongly suggest a decent quality boost gauge that you can mount somewhere
that you can see it all the time without taking your eyes off the road.


Barry


> -----Original Message-----
>
>   Ok, two questions...  Think it's normal for me to max my
> injectors out?  How do I know
> when it's done learning?
>
> I think I may have been confused between IDC and BADC because of
> the 'DC' part, and also
> the fact that I wasn't too familiar with the terminology used.
>
> I thought it was over, I was able to hold .80 through 3rd gear
> maxxing out the
> injectors, but in 2nd it dropped to .5*, I guess it was never
> learning at all.
>
> thanks again,
> Jason

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:17:23 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: looking for spark plugs

Roger,

I don't know if you actually intended to reply to me or to the post you
quoted since that quote isn't from me, but I'll respond anyway.

I have the usual 15G related junk plus the MASC for mixture control.  The
AFC is also wired in for ultra lean idle since that is all the VR4 gets
tested for at emissions time here in AZ (no AWD dynos) =).   Plus no
pre-cats now so we'll see what happens thisa year at emissions time.

I am intimately familiar with fouled plugs.  With mods and lots of high
boost running (read high temps) NGKs last maybe a year.  Plus messing with
mixture and big injectors almost always ruins at least one set of plugs at
some point along the way.

I wouldn't want to leave them in for 100K even if the car were stock, as
good as the NGKs are.

My new setup includes bigger (again) injectors plus engine work and I expect
to ruin at least one set of plugs getting it dialed in, which is why I
bought two sets.  For _initial_ tuning I usually don't care what brand I use
since I expect to ruin the first set anyway, although I try and stick with
what I will ultimately use.  I have never had a bad NGK plug and they have
never failed me since I started using them 20 years ago.  I have seen bad
NGKs, (worked in a bike shop) but it is extremely rare.  Bosch seem to work
fine in Posche Turbos but they didn't work in my VR4.  Autolite, Champion
etc. might be okay for the lawnmower...

HKS and Greddy do not make their own plugs.  They are likely either NGK or
Denso.  Denso plugs seem to work well too -- there was a set in my VR4 when
I bought it and they looked great when they were replaced with NGK at 60K.


Barry
'94 VR4
lotsa mods

> -----Original Message-----
>
> > come on guys!!   these plugs should be good  for 60K miles.
> > Some quick math shows about 1/10 cent per mile. In terms of overall
> > cost per mile that ain't too bad.
> > P.S. if your cheep you could probably go 100,000.
>
> Barry, on what boost and mods do your run your car ? Also have
> you ever figgled
> around tuning in another ECU, injectors, etc. Some of us can tell
> you stories
> about fouling the plugs with new mods not properly tuned in. This
> is why a lot
> people are able to remove the intake plenum so fast, hehe.
>
> Regards,
> Roger,
> 93'3000GT TT

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 08:08:34 -0800
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Team3S: AVC-R installation (boost settings)

Hi Jason;


> You wrote

snip

> Kinda doubt it, mine's a 94

Well... that blows that theory. : )

snip

>  Am I wrong?

Who can say what the darn ECU is thinking. Half the time it's a box of magic, the other
half it's an inegma.

Best

Darc


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:51:05 +0100
From: lehir@genesiscom.ch (Genesiscon Lehir)
Subject: RE: Team3S: looking for spark plugs

>>One interesting side note, they have a reddish brown deposit on them. When
>>asking around about this, I was told this is the result of using octane
>>booster. Not sure if this is true, but they weren't fouled, just
discolored.
>>Anyone else experience this?

Yes, this is correct.
Octane boosters will leave a brown-orange-yellowish (soemtimes referred as
rust like)
deposit, not only on the spart plugs, but as well on the turbos (sometimes).

And no, no ill effect that I'm aware of

Henri

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:39:20 +0100
From: lehir@genesiscom.ch (Genesiscon Lehir)
Subject: RE: Team3S: Paint follow up and questions

Hi Everyone

>>This glitch has occurred very intermittenly with me in my Canadaian 92.
99.9% of the
>>time, opening the trunk with the alarm activated  will not set it off.

Well, it WAS activating my alarm 100% of the time....sigh

>>Hmmm this should not be this way. Was the car altered from the Canadian
standard for
>>import?

Don't know

>> A section in the manual deals with Cnadian versions (and California
versions)
>>check it out and see if yours has been altered from that discribed.

Yes, it seems so....seems that the car is NOT behaving like an US or a CDN
car, strange

>>You'll have to live with the F like the rest of us.

<sigh>...I think I can do that :-)
If I'm cold, I'll add a couple degrees...and if I'm hot...I'll substract
some....it's the way
it should work, isn't it :-)


>>Dunno..may be automatic, as I haven't found it either.

Welcome on board..

I start to think that either I have a gremlin...or that the mirror defrost
is
on when you have the REAR defrost on, AND the clima set for the front
defrost.

>>One suggestion i could give to avoid the trunk going off is turn the key
all
>>the way to the right, and hold it there while you open the trunk with your
>>hand.

Well, it was NOT working.....but.....

>>No. Your lock switch us dirty. Try some penetrating oil or take it apart
and clean it.

That WAS the problem....got some electrical cleaner spray....fixed
it....provided I turn the key ALL the way, holding the trunk closed...

AND, I discovered as well that I had a "problem" with the Engine bay switch
as well...

>>If you disarm the alarm in this way (key in hatch, hatch open, no doors
>>opened), will the alarm rearm when the hatch is closed?

NOW ??

Yes !!

AND...while working on the car, I discovered as well that some cleaner in
the driver's lock, and turning the key all the way for about 1 second, and
the above mentioned fix on the engine bay switch fixed the activation of the
alarm using the key.

Thank you for all of you who helped me..

Best

Henri

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 20:28:56 -0600
From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Hood Insulation / Scoops

- -----Original Message-----
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 02:53 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Hood Insulation / Scoops


>
>
>Roger Gerl wrote: -------------
>
>snip
>
>> I check out the local cost and also if they come already painted or not !
>>
>
>The price is a good...however they always come unpainted..so add  paint to
your total
>investment. Still modifying these is inexpensive compared to Bozz.
>
>I am still hoping a team member with skill, facilities, and ingenuity will
come up with
>a nice neat prefabricated insert (cutout template included) for the back of
our strut
>tower blisters. Mmmm ...something like the side of the hood vents in the
new Mustangs
>(in that case they're inoperable) , only made for our contour
configuration. ; )   It
>could prove to be a nice little on the side enterprize if done with class.
>
>Best
>
>Darc
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:15:48 -0700
From: Andrew Brilliant <andrewb@infowest.com>
Subject: Team3S: Maintenance question, GSXR 750 vs 3000GT

At the reccomdation of my friends/family, and pshycologist. I sold my VR4 and bought a 98
Accord EX, with every option.  It is sad to see it go, but after, the 2 transfer cases,
clutch, master/slave cylinders, motor mount, and transmission, 3 weeks of rental cars (all
last month); I am broke.  I am curious what everyone else here has been spending on
maintenance for the 91-93's  Or was my situation an isolated case.  The accord still has
90k miles of warranty, so I am not going to worry about _anything_.

Another question, I heard tell that someone here raced a sportbike with thier GT, Jack T. I
think?  What are your 0-60 times?  My GSXR 750, timed at 2.9 sec's, with me riding it, and
I've read as low as 2.8.  What kind of bike did you race, and what conditions?  I saw a
race between the Ducati Superbike team, and a Formula 1 car on TV, an F1 got spanked
nicely.  I would love to see your beast in action..

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 09:36:34 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: AVC-R installation (summary)

Jason Barnhart wrote:
snip
> wot in upper rpms, and why does it not seem like I just jumped possibly
> 50 hp, even though the car idles and accelerates smooth as silk.  I'm
> starting to think that the car is in fact faster, but I'm paying
> attention to too many other things, like boost and IDC, to notice.  I
> won't know for sure till I go to the track.  I'd previously run
snip

Anyone spending lots of money on modifications will probably want to
have access to some type of device to measure performance (in addition
to the track).  If you don't have access to an AWD dyno, you should look
into getting a G-Tech for $139, http://www.gtechpro.com or the Home Dyno
for $85, http://www.charm.net/~mchaney/homedyno/dynokit.htm.  This would
allow you to take quantitative before and after measurements.

Good luck with your tuning,
Ken

- --
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do!

Ken Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:20:29 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Maintenance question, GSXR 750 vs 3000GT

Hi Andrew,

Sorry to hear that your VR4 problems were so expensive and caused you to
sell.  No doubt that these are high maintenance cars.  When buying one,
I think one should get the best possible condition that they can
afford.  I have seen a few that have looked like they were "rode hard
and put away wet" and these should be avoided.

I've had my '91 for 16 months now.  I bought it at 65K and it now has
93K.  That averages 1750 miles per month -- it's my daily driver.  Here
is what I've spent on maintenance:

Repairs & maintenance:
$540 Rear wheel bearings (both sides), and one rear hub
  $40 Boost Control Solenoid Valve
$140 Starter
  $40 Clutch slave cylinder
$540 4 struts
$110 Brake pads
$340 New front rotors and more brake pads
  $75 plug wires
$200 Miscellaneous trim, shift boot, nut caps, washers, gaskets, cover,
etc.

Mods:
$295 Eibach springs (I needed them right away, so shipping killed me!)
$130 boost guage and A-pillar pod
  $33 manual boost controller
$145 G-Tech

Consumables:
$2388 gasoline
$935 tires
$326 Oil filters & synthetic oils, K&N cleaner kit


I'm sure the list is not complete, but pretty close.  Anyway that totals
$6277, or $392 a month, or $0.22 per mile!  I haven't even done a clutch
or tranny or 60K service yet, so I thought my costs have been low! 
Obviously I was wrong (wow, I'm glad you asked the question and I
performed the exercise).  Also this is parts only except for the rear
bearings.  If you always pay for labor you could probably double the
maintenance cost.

I guess I'd better get a commuter car, although I am planning on moving
closer to work this Spring or Summer.  What an eye opener!

Good luck Andrew.  It's been a pleasure having you on the list.  Maybe
you'll still make it to San Diego though, yes?
- --
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do!

Ken Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:26:43 +0100
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject: Re: Team3S: AVC-R installation (boost settings)

"Barry E. King" wrote:
>
> The manual does not state that you can set the IDC.  I am curious as to how
> and why this myth continues to perpetuate.  Is someone spreading this
> misinformation or is it some strange translation in the manual or ???  Just
> curious...

Must be the Blitz guys!  :-)  I think people are confused because the
AVC-R has one mode to display and set boost, and another mode to display
IDC and set BADC (but not set IDC or display BADC!), both of which are
percentages.  This confused me at first as well (and I believe you were
the one who set me straight about a year and a half ago).


> I also suggest that you run back through your installation and ensure that
> all hoses are snug, not crimped or binding anywhere, and that there are no
> leaks.  It is remotely possibly that there is something amiss in the
> installation.

This is what I'm thinking as well.  The IDC maxing out and then falling
off I think is an effect of the boost falling off, not the cause, though
it does sound like the high IDC levels are being reached too soon.  It
clarify things to know what is being shown at what RPMs under WOT in
third.

I don't think this problem has anything to do with the other mods, air
flow, or fuel delivey.  Sounds like the wastegates are not being
controlled properly - just doesn't make sense!  Wasn't someone else
having a similar problem last summer?  The boost controller was seeing a
HIGHER pressure than it should have and was opening the wastegates?
Pretty insidious.

Jason, it sounds to me like your car is running as if it were stock (you
don't notice any difference in performance, right?) and that the AVC-R
is doing no more than monitoring boost and IDC.  Double check all of
your solonoid and wastegate connections, hoses and wires!  You will know
when it's right - it's a big difference!!  Good luck...

-Jim
- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews

*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb 99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:52:02 -0700
From: Dave <monarchd+team3S@colorado.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Tranny Question

xwing wrote:
>
> Dennis Moore wrote:
> > stick on tranny was rocking back/forth as press/release gas pedal.  It
> > only happened in 5th, was most noticeable above 60 mph.
> > "sign of the end", or less ominous?
> > symptom of a broken motor mount?
> > Dennis Moore 93 Stealth ES
>
> Could be broken motormount, even with the cable shifter.
> Doubtful it is anything inside the trans.
> Unless it is alot, could be something to ignore, but check motormounts.
> Let us know what it is/how it goes after month or 2...
> Jack T.

if I happen to say something stupid in the next sentence, then I plead
ignorance..  :)   if the motor mount is the problem, wouldn't it affect all
gears?  one reason I say this, is I have the same problem, but in 3rd, which
coincidently is where I have a bad synchro..  every other gear, the shifter
is rock solid..

just adding my meager input..  :)

Dave
91 VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:05:50 -0700
From: Dave <monarchd+team3S@colorado.edu>
Subject: Team3S: VR4 purchase..

I wanted to take a moment and thank all of you that replied to my question
about purchase of a high milage 95 VR4..  Both pros and cons were addressed
and helped me decide that I probably should try and wait for the "right" car..

the right car being a 99 for $15K...  hehe..  yeah, maybe in 10 years.. ;)


Dave
91 VR4 
(may be keeping it after all..  darn..  I'm stuck with a 300hp AWD VR4.. ;)
.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 11:39:24 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Maintenance question, GSXR 750 vs 3000GT

 I am curious what everyone else here has been spending on
>maintenance for the 91-93's 

I've had a 94 VR4 for nearly a year. It  has about 65,000 miles.
Except for 2 oil changes (Mobil 1), I have had NO maintenance expenses. My
warranty covered a new Getrag transmission, so that cost me $100 to
replace.  Of course, it's not a daily driver. I've put less than 5,000
miles on it so far.

I did break a brake rotor and fry some pads, but that was during driver's
school. I don't think you mean those kinds of expenses.

>
>Another question, I heard tell that someone here raced a sportbike with
thier GT, Jack T. I
>think?  What are your 0-60 times?  My GSXR 750, timed at 2.9 sec's, with
me riding it, and
>I've read as low as 2.8.  What kind of bike did you race, and what
conditions?  I saw a
>race between the Ducati Superbike team, and a Formula 1 car on TV, an F1
got spanked
>nicely.  I would love to see your beast in action..

I was watching a motorcycle show on Speedvision, and they were testing 600
cc bikes in the quarter. The little suckers were turning 125+ mph in the 10s.

Rich/old poop/VR4
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:11:36 -0800
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Team3S: Transfer Case

Hi guys;

There seems to be a preponderance of transfer case failures (someone
just posted they went through 2) so I thought getting a handle on the
problem might forewarn those who have yet to encounter it Forewarned is
forearmed) . So, to those of you who have encountered the problem..1)
What could have been done to prevent it including driving habits or
maintenance strategies, and  2) what  aftermarket upgrades that will
prevent it from occurring (upgrading to new splines, etc). All expert
advise would help establish a firm baseline on a problem that seems
second only to the synchros.

Best

Darc

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:41:15 -0700
From: "Ricardo Cousar" <rcousar@uswest.com>
Subject: Team3S: Speed sensor

Does anyone know the location of the speed sensor? My speedometer is off
and I would like to try adjust it.

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:30:46 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: looking for spark plugs

> I don't know if you actually intended to reply to me or to the post you
> quoted since that quote isn't from me, but I'll respond anyway.

A big sorry ! I responded to James Berrys (note my wrong addressing to you) post
and yes it was my intention to send it to the list :)

> I am intimately familiar with fouled plugs.  With mods and lots of high
> boost running (read high temps) NGKs last maybe a year.  Plus messing with
> mixture and big injectors almost always ruins at least one set of plugs at
> some point along the way.

I'll definitely need at least two sets until my new setup will be up and running
then. I really wonder what the water injection does to the plugs (good or bad).
We'll see soon.

> I wouldn't want to leave them in for 100K even if the car were stock, as
> good as the NGKs are.

I guess 20k with our mods. But this is the lowest price factor of all.

Later,
Roger
93'3000GT TT


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 13:36:16 -0800
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject: Team3S: Spark crisis...HELP

Howdy folks...

I'm having a crisis here, need help. Just finished adding 15G turbos, 560
injectors, and a HKS fuel pump, along with a G-force custom ECU (mapped for
my full set of mods). What's happening is stalling above 4Krpm, or under
WOT. Not fuel cut, just misfiring. I believe I'm blowing out the flame. I
called Robert at G-force, he tells me to run .025" gap on a colder plug. I'm
already running one range colder and REALLY don't want to reduce the gap
below .034, in fact I'd like to open it back up.

Has anyone tried one of the Jacobs Electronics units to increase voltage to
the plugs?

Other solutions?

Looking forward...Chris

1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/HKS Super Flo intake, TEC 15G turbos, bored
and polished throttle body, RC 560cc injectors, HKS fuel pump, GReddy PRofec
A boost controller, G-force ECU upgrade, HKS SBOV, front mounted
intercoolers, Predator dry cell battery, Magnecore 8.5mm wires, HKS double
platinum plugs gapped at .034", ATR downpipe and test pipe, GReddy catback
exhaust, GReddy turbo timer, Eibach 1" drop progressive springs...and
running lousy)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 22:59:43 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: AVC-R installation (summary)

>   I have 91k miles, a weapon-r air filter, ngk plugs gapped to .035,
> accel wires, and gutted cats (all 3).  I have 2, maybe 3
> problems/disappointments/questions...  Should my injectors be maxxing
> for several seconds

Unfortunately, they start to max out at higher boost around 15psi.

> why does my boost drop as low as .49 atmosphere at wot in upper rpms, and

After rereading your notes I'm starting to think about a retarded timing. This
is the only cause I see now that is not related to the boost controller.

> why does it not seem like I just jumped possibly
> 50 hp, even though the car idles and accelerates smooth as silk.

Smooth accelerating sounds very stock to me while the idle doesn't say anything.
Acceleration became neck-slapping after the boost controller was installed and
tuned in.

> I'd previously run 13.36@102.54 with a 1.96 60' time.

You say this times where achieved without a boost controller and with stock
boost. This leads me to the assumption that you already had a leak in the
wastegate lines and you had an "unknown bleeder valve" installed that finally
gave you more power. Note the G-Tech times from Jim, me and others. All are
around 13.15 - 13.20 with 1.00 bars (14.2 psi) of boost and without a bc I have
never been able to go below 13.70 during my tests.

> I don't see any reason why I couldn't turn a possible mid 12 with a perfect
> launch, if in fact I'm getting the proper boost.

No, I doubt you'll ever see the 12's with any corrections with a healthy car. We
have already heard some stories about this but just calculate the power that is
needed to throw a 3800lbs car in 12.60 at aroun 118mph ! This will lead you
around 480hp and this is only possible with boost around 1.2bars. I measured 467
DIN hp at 1.25bars bit the car runned heavily into knock and fuel cut around
1.27bars.

> since my cats are gutted my exhaust would flow better, would this make
> it harder to maintain boost as there is less restriction.

Your stock turbos do not gain a lot if anything due to the gutted cats. But this
should help to keep boost up in the higher rpm due to the less restriction.

> Even though the boost might drop, I would still probably flow more air than
> with cats, right?

No, as the turbos do not flow more without increasing them. But you lowered the
exhaust backpressure and therefore the temperature and pressure against the
turbine wheel that finally helps to keep them spooling.

I'm almost sure you do have a problem within your setup. A leak or wrongly
tapped in. I whished I could have a look at everything.

Roger,
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:03:04 EST
From: LotoBoost@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Spark crisis...HELP

Chris,

     Awesome with the mods, did you end up installing yourself?  At any rate,
we have a modified version of the MSD DIS4 I run on my Stealth that might help
you.  But why did you go lower on your heat range!?  All you probably need to
do is through in some NGK PFR6J-11's at .032-.034 and you should be good to
go.

Mike (cant believe someone told you .025 - what a cracka!)


In a message dated 3/26/99 4:37:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,
cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com writes:

<< Howdy folks...
 
 I'm having a crisis here, need help. Just finished adding 15G turbos, 560
 injectors, and a HKS fuel pump, along with a G-force custom ECU (mapped for
 my full set of mods). What's happening is stalling above 4Krpm, or under
 WOT. Not fuel cut, just misfiring. I believe I'm blowing out the flame. I
 called Robert at G-force, he tells me to run .025" gap on a colder plug. I'm
 already running one range colder and REALLY don't want to reduce the gap
 below .034, in fact I'd like to open it back up.
 
 Has anyone tried one of the Jacobs Electronics units to increase voltage to
 the plugs?
 
 Other solutions?
 
 Looking forward...Chris
 
 1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/HKS Super Flo intake, TEC 15G turbos, bored
 and polished throttle body, RC 560cc injectors, HKS fuel pump, GReddy PRofec
 A boost controller, G-force ECU upgrade, HKS SBOV, front mounted
 intercoolers, Predator dry cell battery, Magnecore 8.5mm wires, HKS double
 platinum plugs gapped at .034", ATR downpipe and test pipe, GReddy catback
 exhaust, GReddy turbo timer, Eibach 1" drop progressive springs...and
 running lousy)
 For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
  >>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:04:12 EST
From: LotoBoost@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Spark crisis...HELP

Whoops.. sorry, that last mail was meant to be private.

Mike
www.AlteredAtmosphere.com
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 22:47:08 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: RPS clutch Group Purchase !

> I'm interested in the purchase, but have a question. WHat does this come
> with? I assume we keep the stock flywheel, but how about the other parts
> (disk obviously, pressure plate, ???)

Good question and I'll place it on the FAQ of the page that will be up Sunday
morning (I do not arrive earlier).

The RPS units come with the Disc and Pressure plate.  New Throw out bearings
should be installed with the new clutch and we can get them together with the
clutch when needed for $30. The stock flywheel will stay and may be turned if
necessary.

Hope this helps,
Roger
93'3000GT TT


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 23:06:33 +0100
From: Roger Gerl <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Spark crisis...HELP

Hey Chris,

> Just finished adding 15G turbos, 560 injectors, and a HKS fuel pump, along
> with a G-force custom ECU fully full set of mods).

Hmmm, sounds good :)

> called Robert at G-force, he tells me to run .025" gap on a colder plug. I'm
> already running one range colder and REALLY don't want to reduce the gap
> below .034, in fact I'd like to open it back up.

No, Rob is true due to the advanced timing and the gap should be what he
supposes. But I also would opt for an AFC as the fuel MAP may be right but still
too rich in this region.

> Has anyone tried one of the Jacobs Electronics units to increase voltage to
> the plugs?

Hmmm, give the plugs a try and if it helps the bigger spark energy my help then.
If not then the fuel map is not properly tuned in. You know, not all 560 can be
compared to each other and therefore I'm feeling that too much fuek causes the
problem.

Hope this helps,
Roger
93'3000GT TT

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:11:55 -0800
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Team3S: AVC-R installation (boost settings)

Jim Mathews was possibly on a hot scent when he wrote:

> snip
>
> Jason, it sounds to me like your car is running as if it were stock (you
> don't notice any difference in performance, right?) and that the AVC-R
> is doing no more than monitoring boost and IDC.  Double check all of
> your solonoid and wastegate connections, hoses and wires!  You will know
> when it's right - it's a big difference!!

Jason...is there any chance at all that you've spliced a wrong wire in the ECU?  I know
I triple checked mine, and then checked it again for absolute certainty before plugging
it back together. Paranoia is a family trait :)  You used the M3 configuration for
Generation 2 right ?(M1 for Generation 1).

Best

Darc

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:11:18 EST
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Spark crisis...HELP

Chris, I think I recall a post from Brad Badell about Jacobs not being good
with his setup. I may be mistaken on who wrote it. With a stock NGk I was
running .028 Gap & worked fine except for gas mileage. G-Force is prob correct
about the gap on a colder plug. If you can, check not only if the plugs &
wires are good...Check the coil too. Mine was bad & I did not even know it.
Try pulling the plug or wire to see the color & intensity of the spark. I
recall Brian at GT Alley was running like 3 MSD units but it took up a lot of
room.
Arty

In a message dated 3/26/99 4:37:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,
cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com writes:

<< Subj: Team3S: Spark crisis...HELP
 Date: 3/26/99 4:37:22 PM Eastern Standard Time
 From: cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com (Chris Winkley)
 Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
 Reply-to: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
 To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com ('Team3S')
 
 Howdy folks...
 
 I'm having a crisis here, need help. Just finished adding 15G turbos, 560
 injectors, and a HKS fuel pump, along with a G-force custom ECU (mapped for
 my full set of mods). What's happening is stalling above 4Krpm, or under
 WOT. Not fuel cut, just misfiring. I believe I'm blowing out the flame. I
 called Robert at G-force, he tells me to run .025" gap on a colder plug. I'm
 already running one range colder and REALLY don't want to reduce the gap
 below .034, in fact I'd like to open it back up.
 
 Has anyone tried one of the Jacobs Electronics units to increase voltage to
 the plugs?
 
 Other solutions?
 
 Looking forward...Chris
 
 1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/HKS Super Flo intake, TEC 15G turbos, bored
 and polished throttle body, RC 560cc injectors, HKS fuel pump, GReddy PRofec
 A boost controller, G-force ECU upgrade, HKS SBOV, front mounted
 intercoolers, Predator dry cell battery, Magnecore 8.5mm wires, HKS double
 platinum plugs gapped at .034", ATR downpipe and test pipe, GReddy catback
 exhaust, GReddy turbo timer, Eibach 1" drop progressive springs...and
 running lousy)
 For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
  >>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:13:41 -0600
From: Wayne <wala@hypertech-inc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Speed sensor

Well, it's located on the transmission, almost directly below the throttle
body. But it is NOT adjustable. Plus, if your car is a non-turbo, it has a
cable, not a sensor. If the cable is bad, it could cause the speedometer to
be off. You're not running other than stock tire size, are you? Good luck....

Wayne

At 01:41 PM 3/26/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Does anyone know the location of the speed sensor? My speedometer is off
>and I would like to try adjust it.


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:59:59 -0800
From: Steven Clarke <steve.clarke@e-d-a.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Transfer Case

My first TC lasted 9K, my second is still OK at 60K.  Here is what I
learned:

1. Warm the engine and transmission before working the car hard;
2. Never, ever, ever launch a VR4 (or any other AWD) by flooring the gas
and just dumping the clutch.  With AWD the grip is so high that the
transmission take all the shock and it will break.

Transmission warm-up and "feathered clutch and feathered gas" are mandatory
for safe (and the fastest) launches.

Steve C

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 19:40:00 -0500
From: Pete Ryner <pryner@ij.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Maintenance question, GSXR 750 vs 3000GT

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE77C0.F3BB09E0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I bought my 91 new along with an extended warranty for 7 years.  The =
only problems I encountered were brake rotors (changed at 15K), the =
speedo (changed at 20K), lifters (make a "ticking" sound and changed at =
40K) and trannys.  I've had three transmissions changed under warranty =
because they caught between first and second.  Never broke down, but =
just didn't shift as it should.  I too was contemplating selling the car =
to go with a new one under warranty, but simply can't find anything =
under $60K with the performance, style, and ride.  I guess I'll keep =
this one until it breaks me.  Even high repair bills are no match new =
car payments until everything goes at once!  Good luck with the Accord.  =
I considered it, but was unsure of the performance.  How does it =
compare?


- -----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Brilliant [SMTP:andrewb@infowest.com]
Sent: Friday, March 26, 1999 12:16 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Maintenance question, GSXR 750 vs 3000GT

At the reccomdation of my friends/family, and pshycologist. I sold my =
VR4 and bought a 98
Accord EX, with every option.  It is sad to see it go, but after, the 2 =
transfer cases,
clutch, master/slave cylinders, motor mount, and transmission, 3 weeks =
of rental cars (all
last month); I am broke.  I am curious what everyone else here has been =
spending on
maintenance for the 91-93's  Or was my situation an isolated case.  The =
accord still has
90k miles of warranty, so I am not going to worry about _anything_.

Another question, I heard tell that someone here raced a sportbike with =
thier GT, Jack T. I
think?  What are your 0-60 times?  My GSXR 750, timed at 2.9 sec's, with =
me riding it, and
I've read as low as 2.8.  What kind of bike did you race, and what =
conditions?  I saw a
race between the Ducati Superbike team, and a Formula 1 car on TV, an F1 =
got spanked
nicely.  I would love to see your beast in action..

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is =
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE77C0.F3BB09E0
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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://9AAAcwwIugVul3vgFAAAgwwIugVul3vgELAACACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAA
AAMAAoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAAAAAAAwAFgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAA
UoUAALcNAAADAAmACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAABhQAAAAAAAB4AH4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAA
AABGAAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADguMAALACOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMA
JIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwAmgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUA
AAAAAAAeADWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA2gAggBgAAAAAA
wAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AN4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiFAAAB
AAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAZiM=

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE77C0.F3BB09E0--

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 20:39:34 -0600
From: Ken Taft <kentaft@cwix.com>
Subject: Team3S: change to synthetic oil

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE77C8.C233ECE0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I own a 92 dodge stealth with 17,500 on it. I want to change oil to =
redline 10w40 synthetic. Somebody told me that before i switch over to =
the synthetic that i should use a cleaner to clean out the petroleum oil =
that is already in the car! Can anybody tell me if this is what  you =
should do.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE77C8.C233ECE0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I own a 92 dodge stealth with 17,500 =
on it. I=20
want to change oil to redline 10w40 synthetic. Somebody told me that =
before i=20
switch over to the synthetic that i should use a cleaner to clean out =
the=20
petroleum oil that is already in the car! Can anybody tell me if this is =

what&nbsp; you should do.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE77C8.C233ECE0--

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 21:14:49 -0800
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Team3S: change to synthetic oil

Hi Ken;

I own a 92 Stealth TT and found an oil flush rinsed out the baked fosil
oils and deposits which caused ticking, restricted lines, etc. Once
flushed and Mobil 1 sythetic was put in, I noticed a lack of ticking.
When or if it comes back, I plan to use a flush again.

Best

Darc

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

End of Team3S Digest V1 #135
****************************

For unsubscribe info and FAQ, see our web page at http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm