--
From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #125
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
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Team3S
Digest Monday, March 15
1999 Volume 01 : Number
125
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:14:44 EST
From: Htkclk@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Mounting
places for a Boost Controller
<< I can tell you one place NOT to
mount it...under the dash. >>
That's a good point. If you do
almost all of your driving alone, like I do,
the passenger side under the
glove box works well, though. It is easy to
reach with wiring, and the
controller can be mounted in the center, where
neither leg "seems" likely to
contact the dash in a crash.
Henry
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------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:36:01 -0800
From: travis <travisblanchard@sprintmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Using spacers on wheels good/bad?
> Subject: Team3S: Using
spacers on wheels good/bad?
>
just as a note to what has already
been said....
if you are running aftermarket wheels with
acorn lug nuts and decide to use a
spacer, there are lug nuts out called et
lugnuts. they have about an extra1/4 inch of
engagment that goes into the
wheel.
Travis
94 laser
awd
looking for a stealth/3000 gt tt
For
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------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:32:38 -0800 (PST)
From: George Kuo <amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: : Autopower rollbar....
Hi Paul,
That's about all
the mutilation to the interior.. other than that..
the passenger seat will
not recline at all cuz of the diagnal bar..
the driver seat is adjustable,
but can't fully recline either... the
rear seats are virtually useless.. but
u can sit an adult sideways..
hope this will help in ur
decision.
George
p.s. Knowing the above sacrafications, I put
the roll bar in anyways.
I rolled my previous car (Eagle Talon turbo)
and the roll bar saved
me from serious injuries..
-
---"Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
wrote:
>
> >> Can you or someone describe for me how
much
> >> "mutilation" to the stock interior would be
necessary
> >> to install this roll bar? Thanks for any
input.
>
> >The rear speakers gota go!
>
>
>
Wow! That's a pretty heavy price. What else?
> Regards,
ptg
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
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------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:06:48 -0500
From: "Bob Fontana" <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Crankshaft advise
Please don't! It looks like there was
a lot of folklore and speculation
spread during this thread. Thanks for
setting us right.
- -Bob
>
> I'll stop here in fear of
boring you. Comments welcomed.
>
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info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:07:26 EST
From: Lomcevak@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Crankshaft advise
Just a couple more notes possibly
worth mentioning.
On at least some engines (such as my
Chrysler big block 383), the windage
tray (factory installed on the hi-po
engines) increases horsepower by reducing
oil friction losses on the crank. I
have seen first hand the benefits on these
engines. Very easy and
inexpensive (both good things).
Also, on the
turbocharger 6G72 engines, oil spray is used to help cool the
insides of the
pistons. I imagine the cylinder walls also benefit from this
indirectly. This
is not done by "splashing" per se by the crank - but by oil
jets that tap
directly into the main bearings oil supply. These are not used
on the
non-turbo engines.
Thats all.
- STeveC
'91 3000GT SL, 79 Rx7, 68 Charger
R/T
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------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:11:33 EST
From: Dskull@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: EGT
Probe
Getting ready to order a dual setup from Westach. The probe's are 2
1/2 " x
3/16" each. I have both front and rear pre-cats out of car. Is
mounting them
in the precat housing a good or bad idea? Should I mount them
in the exhaust
manifold instead ? If I mount them in the precat's I will weld
on the bung and
get the 1/8" npt probe's. I had seen somewhere that the
optimal probe position
is 10" from flame center. Is this true, and if so
where was this fact obtained
from?
Dave 93 VR4 - So many questions, so
little time.
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info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:20:58 -0500
From: "Bob Fontana" <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: EGT Probe
Dave, if possible, put them in your manifold
collectors. Some people put
them in the turbine funnel. The 10"
number seems right. The precat area is
too far downstream. Your
readings will be 3-400 degrees too cool and will
be slow to respond.
-
-Bob
> Getting ready to order a dual setup from Westach. The probe's
are
> 2 1/2 " x
> 3/16" each. I have both front and rear pre-cats
out of car. Is
> mounting them
> in the precat housing a good or bad
idea? Should I mount them in
> the exhaust
> manifold instead ? If I
mount them in the precat's I will weld on
> the bung and
> get the
1/8" npt probe's. I had seen somewhere that the optimal
> probe
position
> is 10" from flame center. Is this true, and if so where was
this
> fact obtained
> from?
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:01:26 -0600
From: "Oskar" <swede@pclink.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Y-pipe question
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Content-Type:
text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
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Does anyone know if the Y-pipes are identical on the
first and second =
gen. cars? If not, what is the
difference?
Thanks,
Oskar
-
------=_NextPart_000_0193_01BE6EDB.8D9B2200
Content-Type:
text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3
HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META
content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1
=
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"'
name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Does anyone know if the
Y-pipes are identical on the =
first and=20
second gen. cars? If
not, what is the difference?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D2>Oskar</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
-
------=_NextPart_000_0193_01BE6EDB.8D9B2200--
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:17:09 -0800
From: Roger Gerl <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Y-pipe question
> Does anyone know if the Y-pipes are
identical on the first and second gen.
> cars? If not, what is the
difference?
No difference for any years. Only the internal part of the
piping AFTER the MAS
changed slightly (where the bypass valve is venting to).
But thiis is not the
y-pipe :)
Regards,
Roger
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subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:32:12 -0500
From: William Lynn Larsen <wlarsen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
EGT Probe
Dave,
At least on aircraft, I have always seen them in
the manifold on the
hottest cylinder. With a water cooled engine, unless
there is some
obvious hindrance of water flow around any one cylinder, there
shouldn't
be a "hottest" cylinder, but I would think that the manifold would
still
be the place for it.
Regards,
Lynn
Dskull@aol.com wrote:
>
> Getting
ready to order a dual setup from Westach. The probe's are 2
> 1/2 " x
3/16" each. Should I mount them in the exhaust manifold
> instead
?
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------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:00:35 -0600
From: "Todd Schmalzried" <Q11981@email.mot.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Alldata repair Cd Manual's ( Popular Mechanics)
I also bought the
Alldata CD. I think it has most of the info from the
factory manual in it.
It's just impossible to find what you're looking for.
If you are patient
enough most of the info can be found, but there is a lot
of really basic
stuff not in there. The only good thing I can recommend it
for (other than a
frisbee) is the TSB's, but they cost extra. Buy the
factory manual, and if
you want a cd buy the one from the dsm guy.
- --
Todd
Schmalzried
q11981@email.mot.com
- -You "put
your 2 cents in" but only get "a penny for your thoughts"
- -Who gets the
change? Think about it. O-
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:36:10 EST
From: Dskull@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Turbo
101
I went back into the archives recently and came across a thread
discussing
turbo size, injector size etc. In an attempt to understand some of
the
concepts and the reasons behind them I will list out some true /
false
statements. Please correct any false or erroneous statements. I really
wish to
understand the "big picture" .
Turning up boost on stock
turbo's. At some point ( around 1.05 bars )
detonation
will occur.
If this is caused by a lean condition additional fuel will correct
it. If, on
the other hand it is caused by increased air temp at throttle body,
which
also
can cause detonation, then bigger capacity intercoolers may help to
some
degree.
Larger turbo's will SUSTAIN a higher boost level. I do
not see any other
reason
for larger turbo's
Hardpipe intercooler
upgrade will stop the hose expansion that occurs with the
stock pipes. This
helps how ?
The more air supplied, the more fuel required. So as soon as
bigger turbo's
installed fuel pump and injector upgrades required along with
VPC type
controller, larger fuel rails, and fuel lines. LOTTSA MULA
END OF QUIZ - So it seems to me that it's a viscous circle. More
boost , more
fuel, etc. At some point we are limited by the air we can
pull through the
stock MASC( unless someone can build a supercharger to feed
the turbo's. And
we are limited to the boost the bottom end can handle ( 30
PSI ? ) . Is ANY of
what I stated correct, or am I way out in left
field?
Dave 93 VR4 - Inquiring minds want to know
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------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:53:21 -0800
From: Roger Gerl <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Turbo 101
> Turning up boost on stock turbo's. At some point (
around 1.05 bars )
> detonation will occur. If this is caused by a lean
condition additional fuel
> will correct it. If, on the other hand it is
caused by increased air temp at
> throttle body, which also can cause
detonation, then bigger capacity
> intercoolers may help to some
degree.
We had still rich conditions and intake temperature increased not
a lot. Knock
occured due to the low octane level. Increasing fuel deliviery,
also known as
dumping fuel, helps to cool the chamber down but is wasting
energy and you're
still not on the save side. Bigger IC devinitely help to
lower the intake
temperature what finally allows you to increase
boost.
> Larger turbo's will SUSTAIN a higher boost level. I do not
see any other
> reason for larger turbo's
They are able to give you
a larger ammount of compressed air with the same boost
level. With this
you'll get more power at the same boost level as with
smaller
ones.
> Hardpipe intercooler upgrade will stop the hose
expansion that occurs with the
> stock pipes. This helps how
?
Depends on the boost level. They do not really expand on any boost
below 1.5bars
! The advantage of the hardpipes is that they are taking up the
temperature from
the ambient without letting the internal air heating up as
well as internal heat
can be transferred to the metal.
> The
more air supplied, the more fuel required. So as soon as bigger turbo's
>
installed fuel pump and injector upgrades required along with VPC type
>
controller, larger fuel rails, and fuel lines. LOTTSA MULA
Si, but
the fuel rails and lines are ok until you go really the hard way :)
Injs,
AFC, pump runs for about $1500 :/
> END OF QUIZ - So it
seems to me that it's a viscous circle. More boost , more
> fuel,
etc. At some point we are limited by the air we can pull through
the
> stock MASC( unless someone can build a supercharger to feed the
turbo's. And
> we are limited to the boost the bottom end can handle ( 30
PSI ? ) .
Well your statements are absolutely correct. At an university
in Switzerland
they developed a turbo with an e-motor attached. The baby acts
as an alternator
as well and makes the heavy thing obsolute and when needed
it keeps the turbos
spooling (with a combination of wastegates) or even can
spool them up. They are
somewhat far away from mass production.
30 PSI
limitation is far enough, hehe (grin, smile) You're rings will get
blown
pretty quick with that boost :)
Remember, the main key thing is
that our cars are tending to get early
detonation that finally retards the
timing. You exactly lined this out in your
post but you also have to mention
the octane level you like to run. Increasing
the fuel amount helps to cool
down the chamber but this is not the solution as
the stock injectors max out
quickly and the fuel pump becomes a hick-up. Dumping
fuel into the chambers
increases this but it will wash out your walls and the
rings are getting worn
more quickly. So increasing octane or decreasing the
temperature of the
chamber are the ways to go. Therefore racing gas is required
as well as big
injectors, a control unit and a good cooling device. Multo Lira !
Also
multo lira (starts at around 300£ UK ) but somewhat good investion is
a
water
injection system. The water/alcohol mixture will be sprayed into
the airstream
after the IC (or before the TB). This cools down the combustion
chamber and
gives you knock-stabilityas you'd run on gas with up to 160
octane. But as you
said, more pressure -> more air -> more fuel and our
system maxes out pretty
soon.
Hope this helps,
Roger
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:43:25 -0600
From: "Brent & Tara Maksymiw" <brent.tara@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Turbo 101
<snip>They are able to give you a larger
ammount of compressed air with the
same boost
>level. With this you'll
get more power at the same boost level as
with
smaller
>ones.<snip>
This statement is a little
deceiving. Larger turbos will flow more air, and
are >capable< of
more horsepower for a given boost level, but this will only
happen if your
engine is capable of flowing more air. I.E. 15lbs of boost
on an engine
that flows more air than stock, will make more horsepower than
a stock engine
at 15lbs of boost.
You will not get more horsepower going to larger
turbos if the stock ones
are capable of holding boost. I.E. if stock
turbos can hold 12lbs of boost
(for example) on a stock engine, 12lbs of
boost with ONLY bigger turbos will
not create more power. If a turbo is
incapable of providing the airflow
required, you will notice the pressure
drop to a level at which the turbo
can supply the appropriate
airflow.
Brent Maksymiw
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our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:27:46 -0500
From: Brian Danley <bcdmad@concentric.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Turbo 101
Not true. With the bigger turbos you have a
higher cfm squared rate. On
the stock turbos at 15psi they flow 295
cfm's ... 13g's flow 365 cfm and
15g's flow 404-408 cfm's (something like
that). So 15psi is different with
bigger turbos.
I'm not sure
how this works ... I assume it makes the air more dense by
pushing it faster
or something....It's just something I read.
Turbo God's Pleas Enlighten
Us
Brian
- -----Original Message-----
From: Brent & Tara
Maksymiw [SMTP:brent.tara@sk.sympatico.ca]
Sent:
Monday, March 15, 1999 9:43 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Turbo 101
<snip>They are able to give you a larger
ammount of compressed air with the
same boost
>level. With this you'll
get more power at the same boost level as
with
smaller
>ones.<snip>
This statement is a little
deceiving. Larger turbos will flow more air,
and
are
>capable< of more horsepower for a given boost level, but this will
only
happen if your engine is capable of flowing more air. I.E.
15lbs of boost
on an engine that flows more air than stock, will make more
horsepower than
a stock engine at 15lbs of boost.
You will not get
more horsepower going to larger turbos if the stock ones
are capable of
holding boost. I.E. if stock turbos can hold 12lbs of boost
(for
example) on a stock engine, 12lbs of boost with ONLY bigger turbos
will
not create more power. If a turbo is incapable of providing
the airflow
required, you will notice the pressure drop to a level at which
the turbo
can supply the appropriate airflow.
Brent
Maksymiw
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 16 Mar 1999 02:50:19 EST
From: Htkclk@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo
101
<< So 15psi is different with bigger turbos.
I'm not
sure how this works ... I assume it makes the air more dense by
pushing it faster or something....It's just something I read.
>>
A) Aren't the turbos themselves a restriction in the flow of air
through the
engine? By using larger turbines and larger compressors
(which are less
restrictive), more air should be able to flow through the
engine at the same
pressure, so more horsepower can be produced at the same
psi.
B) Larger compressor wheels can move the same amount of air as the
smaller
turbo, while they spin at a slower speed, causing less friction with
the air
they are pumping and perhaps less turbulence and heating of the air
before it
even gets to the intercoolers. Cooler air=more
horsepower.
Henry
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------------------------------
End
of Team3S Digest V1 #125
****************************
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