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From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #125
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
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Team3S Digest          Monday, March 15 1999          Volume 01 : Number 125




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:14:44 EST
From: Htkclk@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Mounting places for a Boost Controller

<< I can tell you one place NOT to mount it...under the dash. >>
That's a good point.  If you do almost all of your driving alone, like I do,
the passenger side under the glove box works well, though.  It is easy to
reach with wiring, and the controller can be mounted in the center, where
neither leg "seems" likely to contact the dash in a crash.
Henry
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:36:01 -0800
From: travis <travisblanchard@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Using spacers on wheels good/bad?

> Subject: Team3S: Using spacers on wheels good/bad?
>

just as a note to what has already been said....
    if you are running aftermarket wheels with acorn lug nuts and decide to use a
spacer, there are lug nuts out called et lugnuts. they have about an extra1/4 inch of
engagment that goes into the wheel.

    Travis
    94 laser awd
    looking for a stealth/3000 gt tt

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Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:32:38 -0800 (PST)
From: George Kuo <amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: : Autopower rollbar....

Hi Paul,

  That's about all the mutilation to the interior.. other than that..
the passenger seat will not recline at all cuz of the diagnal bar..
the driver seat is adjustable, but can't fully recline either... the
rear seats are virtually useless.. but u can sit an adult sideways..
hope this will help in ur decision.

George
p.s.  Knowing the above sacrafications, I put the roll bar in anyways.
 I rolled my previous car (Eagle Talon turbo) and the roll bar saved
me from serious injuries..




- ---"Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com> wrote:
>
> >> Can you or someone describe for me how much
> >> "mutilation" to the stock interior would be necessary
> >> to install this roll bar?  Thanks for any input.
>
> >The rear speakers gota go!
>
>
> Wow!  That's a pretty heavy price.  What else?
> Regards, ptg
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 07:06:48 -0500
From: "Bob Fontana" <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Crankshaft advise

Please don't!  It looks like there was a lot of folklore and speculation
spread during this thread.  Thanks for setting us right.

- -Bob

>
> I'll stop here in fear of boring you.  Comments welcomed.
>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:07:26 EST
From: Lomcevak@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Crankshaft advise

    Just a couple more notes possibly worth mentioning.

    On at least some engines (such as my Chrysler big block 383), the windage
tray (factory installed on the hi-po engines) increases horsepower by reducing
oil friction losses on the crank. I have seen first hand the benefits on these
engines. Very easy and  inexpensive (both good things).

    Also, on the turbocharger 6G72 engines, oil spray is used to help cool the
insides of the pistons. I imagine the cylinder walls also benefit from this
indirectly. This is not done by "splashing" per se by the crank - but by oil
jets that tap directly into the main bearings oil supply. These are not used
on the non-turbo engines.

   Thats all.


    - STeveC
      '91 3000GT SL, 79 Rx7, 68 Charger R/T
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Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:11:33 EST
From: Dskull@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: EGT Probe

Getting ready to order a dual setup from Westach. The probe's are 2 1/2 " x
3/16" each. I have both front and rear pre-cats out of car. Is mounting them
in the precat housing a good or bad idea? Should I mount them in the exhaust
manifold instead ? If I mount them in the precat's I will weld on the bung and
get the 1/8" npt probe's. I had seen somewhere that the optimal probe position
is 10" from flame center. Is this true, and if so where was this fact obtained
from?

Dave 93 VR4 - So many questions, so little time.

     
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:20:58 -0500
From: "Bob Fontana" <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: EGT Probe

Dave, if possible, put them in your manifold collectors.  Some people put
them in the turbine funnel.  The 10" number seems right.  The precat area is
too far downstream.  Your readings will be 3-400 degrees too cool and will
be slow to respond.

- -Bob

> Getting ready to order a dual setup from Westach. The probe's are
> 2 1/2 " x
> 3/16" each. I have both front and rear pre-cats out of car. Is
> mounting them
> in the precat housing a good or bad idea? Should I mount them in
> the exhaust
> manifold instead ? If I mount them in the precat's I will weld on
> the bung and
> get the 1/8" npt probe's. I had seen somewhere that the optimal
> probe position
> is 10" from flame center. Is this true, and if so where was this
> fact obtained
> from?

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:01:26 -0600
From: "Oskar" <swede@pclink.com>
Subject: Team3S: Y-pipe question

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Does anyone know if the Y-pipes are identical on the first and second =
gen. cars?  If not, what is the difference?

Thanks,
Oskar

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<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Does anyone know if the Y-pipes are identical on the =
first and=20
second gen. cars?&nbsp; If not, what is the difference?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Oskar</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0193_01BE6EDB.8D9B2200--

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:17:09 -0800
From: Roger Gerl <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Y-pipe question

> Does anyone know if the Y-pipes are identical on the first and second gen.
> cars?  If not, what is the difference?

No difference for any years. Only the internal part of the piping AFTER the MAS
changed slightly (where the bypass valve is venting to). But thiis is not the
y-pipe :)

Regards,
Roger
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:32:12 -0500
From: William Lynn Larsen <wlarsen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: EGT Probe

Dave,

At least on aircraft, I have always seen them in the manifold on the
hottest cylinder. With a water cooled engine, unless there is some
obvious hindrance of water flow around any one cylinder, there shouldn't
be a "hottest" cylinder, but I would think that the manifold would still
be the place for it.

Regards,
Lynn

Dskull@aol.com wrote:
>
> Getting ready to order a dual setup from Westach. The probe's are 2
> 1/2 " x 3/16" each.  Should I mount them in the exhaust manifold
> instead ?
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:00:35 -0600
From: "Todd Schmalzried" <Q11981@email.mot.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Alldata repair Cd Manual's ( Popular Mechanics)

I also bought the Alldata CD. I think it has most of the info from the
factory manual in it. It's just impossible to find what you're looking for.
If you are patient enough most of the info can be found, but there is a lot
of really basic stuff not in there. The only good thing I can recommend it
for (other than a frisbee) is the TSB's, but they cost extra. Buy the
factory manual, and if you want a cd buy the one from the dsm guy.

- --
Todd Schmalzried                    q11981@email.mot.com
- -You "put your 2 cents in" but only get "a penny for your thoughts"
- -Who gets the change? Think about it.  O-
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 16:36:10 EST
From: Dskull@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Turbo 101

I went back into the archives recently and came across a thread discussing
turbo size, injector size etc. In an attempt to understand some of the
concepts and the reasons behind them I will list out some true / false
statements. Please correct any false or erroneous statements. I really wish to
understand the "big picture" .

Turning up boost on stock turbo's. At some point ( around 1.05 bars )
detonation 
will occur. If this is caused by a lean condition additional fuel will correct
it. If, on the other hand it is caused by increased air temp at throttle body,
which also
can cause detonation, then bigger capacity intercoolers may help to some
degree.

Larger turbo's will SUSTAIN a higher boost level. I do not see any other
reason
for larger turbo's

Hardpipe intercooler upgrade will stop the hose expansion that occurs with the
stock pipes. This helps how ?

The more air supplied, the more fuel required. So as soon as bigger turbo's
installed fuel pump and injector upgrades required along with VPC type
controller, larger fuel rails, and fuel lines.  LOTTSA MULA

END OF QUIZ  - So it seems to me that it's a viscous circle. More boost , more
fuel, etc.  At some point we are limited by the air we can pull through the
stock MASC( unless someone can build a supercharger to feed the turbo's. And
we are limited to the boost the bottom end can handle ( 30 PSI ? ) . Is ANY of
what I stated correct, or am I way out in left field?

Dave 93 VR4 -   Inquiring minds want to know
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:53:21 -0800
From: Roger Gerl <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo 101

> Turning up boost on stock turbo's. At some point ( around 1.05 bars )
> detonation will occur. If this is caused by a lean condition additional fuel
> will correct it. If, on the other hand it is caused by increased air temp at
> throttle body, which also can cause detonation, then bigger capacity
> intercoolers may help to some degree.

We had still rich conditions and intake temperature increased not a lot. Knock
occured due to the low octane level. Increasing fuel deliviery, also known as
dumping fuel, helps to cool the chamber down but is wasting energy and you're
still not on the save side. Bigger IC devinitely help to lower the intake
temperature what finally allows you to increase boost.

> Larger turbo's will SUSTAIN a higher boost level. I do not see any other
> reason for larger turbo's

They are able to give you a larger ammount of compressed air with the same boost
level. With this you'll get more power at the same boost level as with smaller
ones.

> Hardpipe intercooler upgrade will stop the hose expansion that occurs with the
> stock pipes. This helps how ?

Depends on the boost level. They do not really expand on any boost below 1.5bars
! The advantage of the hardpipes is that they are taking up the temperature from
the ambient without letting the internal air heating up as well as internal heat
can be transferred to the metal.
 
> The more air supplied, the more fuel required. So as soon as bigger turbo's
> installed fuel pump and injector upgrades required along with VPC type
> controller, larger fuel rails, and fuel lines.  LOTTSA MULA

Si, but the fuel rails and lines are ok until you go really the hard way :)
Injs, AFC, pump runs for about $1500 :/
 
> END OF QUIZ  - So it seems to me that it's a viscous circle. More boost , more
> fuel, etc.  At some point we are limited by the air we can pull through the
> stock MASC( unless someone can build a supercharger to feed the turbo's. And
> we are limited to the boost the bottom end can handle ( 30 PSI ? ) .

Well your statements are absolutely correct. At an university in Switzerland
they developed a turbo with an e-motor attached. The baby acts as an alternator
as well and makes the heavy thing obsolute and when needed it keeps the turbos
spooling (with a combination of wastegates) or even can spool them up. They are
somewhat far away from mass production.

30 PSI limitation is far enough, hehe (grin, smile) You're rings will get blown
pretty quick with that boost :)

Remember, the main key thing is that our cars are tending to get early
detonation that finally retards the timing. You exactly lined this out in your
post but you also have to mention the octane level you like to run. Increasing
the fuel amount helps to cool down the chamber but this is not the solution as
the stock injectors max out quickly and the fuel pump becomes a hick-up. Dumping
fuel into the chambers increases this but it will wash out your walls and the
rings are getting worn more quickly. So increasing octane or decreasing the
temperature of the chamber are the ways to go. Therefore racing gas is required
as well as big injectors, a control unit and a good cooling device. Multo Lira !

Also multo lira (starts at around 300£ UK ) but somewhat good investion is a
water
injection system. The water/alcohol mixture will be sprayed into the airstream
after the IC (or before the TB). This cools down the combustion chamber and
gives you knock-stabilityas you'd run on gas with up to 160 octane. But as you
said, more pressure -> more air -> more fuel and our system maxes out pretty
soon.

Hope this helps,
Roger
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:43:25 -0600
From: "Brent & Tara Maksymiw" <brent.tara@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo 101

<snip>They are able to give you a larger ammount of compressed air with the
same boost
>level. With this you'll get more power at the same boost level as with
smaller
>ones.<snip>


This statement is a little deceiving.  Larger turbos will flow more air, and
are >capable< of more horsepower for a given boost level, but this will only
happen if your engine is capable of flowing more air.  I.E. 15lbs of boost
on an engine that flows more air than stock, will make more horsepower than
a stock engine at 15lbs of boost.

You will not get more horsepower going to larger turbos if the stock ones
are capable of holding boost.  I.E. if stock turbos can hold 12lbs of boost
(for example) on a stock engine, 12lbs of boost with ONLY bigger turbos will
not create more power.  If a turbo is incapable of providing the airflow
required, you will notice the pressure drop to a level at which the turbo
can supply the appropriate airflow.

Brent Maksymiw



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:27:46 -0500
From: Brian Danley <bcdmad@concentric.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Turbo 101

Not true.  With the bigger turbos you have a higher cfm squared rate.  On
the stock turbos at 15psi they flow 295 cfm's ... 13g's flow 365 cfm and
15g's flow 404-408 cfm's (something like that).  So 15psi is different with
bigger turbos.

I'm not sure how this works ... I assume it makes the air more dense by
pushing it faster or something....It's just something I read.

Turbo God's Pleas Enlighten Us

Brian

- -----Original Message-----
From: Brent & Tara Maksymiw [SMTP:brent.tara@sk.sympatico.ca]
Sent: Monday, March 15, 1999 9:43 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo 101


<snip>They are able to give you a larger ammount of compressed air with the
same boost
>level. With this you'll get more power at the same boost level as with
smaller
>ones.<snip>


This statement is a little deceiving.  Larger turbos will flow more air,
and
are >capable< of more horsepower for a given boost level, but this will
only
happen if your engine is capable of flowing more air.  I.E. 15lbs of boost
on an engine that flows more air than stock, will make more horsepower than
a stock engine at 15lbs of boost.

You will not get more horsepower going to larger turbos if the stock ones
are capable of holding boost.  I.E. if stock turbos can hold 12lbs of boost
(for example) on a stock engine, 12lbs of boost with ONLY bigger turbos
will
not create more power.  If a turbo is incapable of providing the airflow
required, you will notice the pressure drop to a level at which the turbo
can supply the appropriate airflow.

Brent Maksymiw



For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 02:50:19 EST
From: Htkclk@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Turbo 101

<< So 15psi is different with bigger turbos.
  I'm not sure how this works ... I assume it makes the air more dense by
 pushing it faster or something....It's just something I read. >>

A) Aren't the turbos themselves a restriction in the flow of air through the
engine?  By using larger turbines and larger compressors (which are less
restrictive), more air should be able to flow through the engine at the same
pressure, so more horsepower can be produced at the same psi.
B) Larger compressor wheels can move the same amount of air as the smaller
turbo, while they spin at a slower speed, causing less friction with the air
they are pumping and perhaps less turbulence and heating of the air before it
even gets to the intercoolers.  Cooler air=more horsepower.
Henry
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------------------------------

End of Team3S Digest V1 #125
****************************

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