--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #123
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest         Saturday, March 13 1999         Volume 01 : Number 123




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 08:49:19 EST
From: Lomcevak@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Crankshaft turning

In a message dated 99-03-11 16:03:13 EST, you write:

<< Don't do it man!  The manual warns against it and even describes a way to
 tell if it's ever been done.  There's a special coating on the journals that
 turns dull gray if it's been turned.  You can get away with some light
 polishing with 1200 grit wet/dry sandpaper but machining it is a no-no. >>

  Just a little clarification here - the Mits overhaul manual warns against
machining of the hardened cranks and specifies the dull grey appearance is
indication whether it is hardened or not. (The hardened cranks are dull grey).
  Once any crank is turned and polished, you will probably not be able to tell
the difference by looking at the journals - they both will look nice and
shiny. Hope this helps.

   SteveC.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 07:04:09 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Crankshaft turning

The crank itself can be machined for balancing purposes but the journals
should not be cut for resizing since that will remove the very thin surface
layer of metal that is impregnated with the hardening compound.


Regards,

Barry

> -----Original Message-----
>
>   Just a little clarification here - the Mits overhaul manual
> warns against
> machining of the hardened cranks and specifies the dull grey appearance is
> indication whether it is hardened or not. (The hardened cranks
> are dull grey).
>   Once any crank is turned and polished, you will probably not be
> able to tell
> the difference by looking at the journals - they both will look nice and
> shiny. Hope this helps.
>
>    SteveC.

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:20:07 -0500
From: William Lynn Larsen <wlarsen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Crankshaft turning

If you know of shop that can do it (and I don't), I believe the process
involves impregnation of the surface layer(s) of metal with nitrogen.
Seems there were several shops in southern California that did this.  I
recall reading about this in aircraft rags as nitrating (spelling?)
became very popular for aircraft cranks and cam journals.  This makes
the surface incredibly strong.

Regards,
Lynn
'92ES 3/SI #0232

Barry E. King wrote:
>
> The crank itself can be machined for balancing purposes but the
> journals
> should not be cut for resizing since that will remove the very thin
> surface
> layer of metal that is impregnated with the hardening compound.
>
> Regards,
>
> Barry
>


> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> >   Just a little clarification here - the Mits overhaul manual
> > warns against
> > machining of the hardened cranks and specifies the dull grey
> appearance is
> > indication whether it is hardened or not. (The hardened cranks
> > are dull grey).
> >   Once any crank is turned and polished, you will probably not be
> > able to tell
> > the difference by looking at the journals - they both will look nice
> and
> > shiny. Hope this helps.
> >
> >    SteveC.
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:57:47 EST
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Using spacers on wheels good/bad?

Any recommendations on using spacers on drag wheels.
Is this a definite no no?
Arty 91 VR-4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:35:08 -0600
From: Wayne <wala@hypertech-inc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Crankshaft advise

Thanks everyone for your replies. Iv'e forwarded them to the man who owns
the car that i'm working on. Hopefully he will just get a new crank, as i
no longer want to take responsibility for installing one that has been
turned. I do have one more question; A couple of you refered to a manual
that talks about the crank. What manual is this? I can't find anything in
the service manual that refers to the turnability, or hardening of the
crank. Thanks again.....And thank god it's not my car that spun a bearing!!!

Wayne
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:34:04 EST
From: Lomcevak@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Crankshaft advise

  The manual I was refering to is the 3000GT 6G72 engine overhaul manual. It
is tough to find. I was able to get a very kind list member to photocopy one
for me. If you have a newer car, you might try Mits first - if not available,
I can help you with specific info from mine.
   The general manuals don't contain any overhaul-type info in them - they are
quite "general" in content.

    - Steve
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:51:00 -0600
From: Wayne <wala@hypertech-inc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Crankshaft advise

Thanks, i'll check into it....

At 11:34 AM 3/12/99 -0500, you wrote:
>
>  The manual I was refering to is the 3000GT 6G72 engine overhaul manual. It
>is tough to find. I was able to get a very kind list member to photocopy one
>for me. If you have a newer car, you might try Mits first - if not available,
>I can help you with specific info from mine.
>   The general manuals don't contain any overhaul-type info in them - they are
>quite "general" in content.
>
>    - Steve
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 13:38:11 -0500
From: RPM Motorsports <rpmmotorsport@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Crankshaft advise

Has anyone thought of Knife edging the crank? I know it was widely
debated on whether or not it actually enhances performance. I remember
reading some threads about this from some other list. As I recall I
think the domestic's used to use this with some actually performance
gains, while I have heard some Honda guys trying it to do it with out
any real gains and having a tendency to eat bearings.



For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:56:25 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Crankshaft advise

I am curious as to how knife-edging the crank would affect bearings?
Usually the crank throws are knife edged to reduce oil aeration since they
can go through the oil in a wet sump system with less drama.  The only thing
I can think of off-hand is that if the Honda crank relies heavily on splash
oiling maybe knife edging the Honda crank reduces the oil seen by the
bearings.  If that is the case though, there should be easy fixes, so I
think that theory is a stretch.  *shrug*


Barry

> -----Original Message-----
>
> Has anyone thought of Knife edging the crank? I know it was widely
> debated on whether or not it actually enhances performance. I remember
> reading some threads about this from some other list. As I recall I
> think the domestic's used to use this with some actually performance
> gains, while I have heard some Honda guys trying it to do it with out
> any real gains and having a tendency to eat bearings.

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:00:21 -0500
From: "Meyer" <meyer2@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Crankshaft advise

My crank has been knife edged.  However, I haven't got the motor back into
the car yet.  I'm still waiting on the Ross pistons.  She will be up and
running by May.

Matt
- -----Original Message-----
From: RPM Motorsports <rpmmotorsport@adelphia.net>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Friday, March 12, 1999 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Crankshaft advise


>Has anyone thought of Knife edging the crank? I know it was widely
>debated on whether or not it actually enhances performance. I remember
>reading some threads about this from some other list. As I recall I
>think the domestic's used to use this with some actually performance
>gains, while I have heard some Honda guys trying it to do it with out
>any real gains and having a tendency to eat bearings.
>
>
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:49:43 EST
From: Lomcevak@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Crankshaft advise

    This seems like alot of hassle when their is a simple way to reduce oil
friction and aeration at the same time - a windage tray. I have never figured
out why we dont have them - must be some painfully obvious reason it wont work
on our engines that I am not aware of.

  Somebody tell me!

    -SteveC
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:54:06 -0500
From: William Lynn Larsen <wlarsen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Crankshaft advise

OK, I am going to admit my ignorance. Please explain "knife edging" the
crank.  My contextual based guess is that the metal between the journal
surfaces is somehow thinned down to reduce the drag on the crank as it
passes through the oil sitting in the pan??  I would think this would
require great care in rebalancing the crank (which makes me think I have
guessed wrong).

Regards,
Lynn
'92 ES

Meyer wrote:
>
> My crank has been knife edged.  However, I haven't got the motor back
> into
> the car yet.  I'm still waiting on the Ross pistons.  She will be up
> and
> running by May.
>
> Matt
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 13:13:57 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Crankshaft advise

A windage tray isn't designed to keep the crank from splashing through the
oil in the oil pan.  Many designs rely on splash oiling for bottom end
lubrication.  A windage tray is designed to keep oil distribution more or
less consistent across the pan by keeping it from moving to and fro which
will otherwise happen naturally under the forces of acceleration or turning.
The main idea here is to keep the oil at the pickup nice and deep and to
ensure the crank has plenty of oil across its length.

A windage tray should work equally as effectively in the 6G72 as in any
other engine so long as it is designed to clear the crank, but it won't
replace the benefits of a knife edged crank, however small or large they may
be.

The builder that did my engine doesn't seem to think knife edged cranks show
any noticeable improvement for a primarily street driven engine, but does
like aerodynamically sound crank throws especially where high RPMs are
concerned.  Makes sense.  The 6G72 crank is good in that respect.


Barry

> -----Original Message-----
>
>     This seems like alot of hassle when their is a simple way to
> reduce oil
> friction and aeration at the same time - a windage tray. I have
> never figured
> out why we dont have them - must be some painfully obvious reason
> it wont work
> on our engines that I am not aware of.
>
>   Somebody tell me!
>
>     -SteveC

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:26:16 -0500
From: Bryan Schwieg <schwieg@ibm.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Crankshaft advise

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE6C9C.D198C2A0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Most if not all of the "top" dsm guys are running knife edged cranks.
- ----------
From: RPM Motorsports[SMTP:rpmmotorsport@adelphia.net]
Sent: Friday, March 12, 1999 1:38 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Crankshaft advise

Has anyone thought of Knife edging the crank? I

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:12:46 -0600
From: "Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: : Autopower rollbar....

>Hey, For those of you interested.  If we get enough people together for a
>purchase, I have arranged a price of 310.00 Plus shipping for the autopower
>roll bar.


Brad-
Can you or someone describe for me how much
"mutilation" to the stock interior would be necessary
to install this roll bar?  Thanks for any input.
Regards, ptg




For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:27:53 -0800 (PST)
From: George Kuo <amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: : Autopower rollbar....

- ---"Paul T. Golley" <ptgolley@ro.com> wrote:

> Brad-
> Can you or someone describe for me how much
> "mutilation" to the stock interior would be necessary
> to install this roll bar?  Thanks for any input.
> Regards, ptg
>

The rear speakers gota go!

George
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:33:34 -0700
From: "james berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Crankshaft advise

- -----Original Message-----
From: Barry E. King

>A windage tray isn't designed to keep the crank from splashing through the
>oil in the oil pan.  Many designs rely on splash oiling for bottom end
>lubrication.  A windage tray is designed to keep oil distribution more or
>less consistent across the pan by keeping it from moving to and fro which
>will otherwise happen naturally under the forces of acceleration or
turning.
snip>

Now I'm confused ???   I thought the oil pan baffles kept the oil where you
wanted it and the windage tray cut down turbulence and splashing!

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:54:22 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Crankshaft advise

Ack.  Sorry, missed my meds :P

A windage tray will indeed reduce aeration by keeping oil from splashing up
to the crank.  It is sometimes incorporated into a baffle but by itself will
indeed keep oil below the crank sweep for the very reasons stated by the
original poster.  Dunno what I was thinking.

My mistake, and my apologies.


Regards,

Barry

> -----Original Message-----

<snip>
>
> Now I'm confused ???   I thought the oil pan baffles kept the oil
> where you
> wanted it and the windage tray cut down turbulence and splashing!

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:03:00 -0500
From: "Andy Carberry" <acarberry@snet.net>
Subject: Team3S: Electronic rear view mirror deal

I have been in contact with Donnellye Electronic about their rear view
mirrors.  I have been trying to work out a deal if we purchase in multiply
quantities.
Check out their site and if interested let  me know.  I'm going to purchase
one but the more ordered the better the price.
http://www.donnellye.com/mirror.htm
They have two mirror and they are priced the same.  They are:

1. Auto dimming mirror with compass and temperature
2. Auto dimming mirror with compass and map lights.

A note the person (Frank) I been talking with said about our cars:
"You drive a great car.  My previous house mate has one."



For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:30:16 -0500
From: Bryan Schwieg <schwieg@ibm.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Electronic rear view mirror deal

- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE6CBE.CAF20FC0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I'm interested. But I want the lighting the same as our interior lights, =
amber, not green as they advertise. Think you can see if they can change =
the color for us?
Thanks
Bryan

- ----------
From: Andy Carberry[SMTP:acarberry@snet.net]
Sent: Friday, March 12, 1999 7:03 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Electronic rear view mirror deal

I have been in contact with Donnellye Electronic about their rear view
mirrors.  I have been trying to work out a deal if we purchase in =
multiply
quantities.
Check out their site and if interested let  me know.  I'm going to =
purchase
one but the more ordered the better the price.
http://www.donnellye.com/mirror.htm
They have two mirror and they are priced the same.  They are:

1. Auto dimming mirror with compass and temperature
2. Auto dimming mirror with compass and map lights.

A note the person (Frank) I been talking with said about our cars:
"You drive a great car.  My previous house mate has one."



For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is =
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm


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Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:54:50 -0600
From: "Jeff" <jw461@nstar.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Electronic rear view mirror deal

I'm not sure how expensive it is, but my Spyder's rear view mirror comes
with map lights and is auto-dimming (no compass tho).  You might want to
check at a dealer to see if you can get one of those cheaper (Tallahasse
Mitsubishi maybe?)

jeff
'95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
'90 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

- -----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Schwieg <schwieg@ibm.net>
To: 'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com' <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Friday, March 12, 1999 6:19 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Electronic rear view mirror deal


I'm interested. But I want the lighting the same as our interior lights,
amber, not green as they advertise. Think you can see if they can change the
color for us?
Thanks
Bryan

- ----------
From: Andy Carberry[SMTP:acarberry@snet.net]
Sent: Friday, March 12, 1999 7:03 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Electronic rear view mirror deal

I have been in contact with Donnellye Electronic about their rear view
mirrors.  I have been trying to work out a deal if we purchase in multiply
quantities.
Check out their site and if interested let  me know.  I'm going to purchase
one but the more ordered the better the price.
http://www.donnellye.com/mirror.htm
They have two mirror and they are priced the same.  They are:

1. Auto dimming mirror with compass and temperature
2. Auto dimming mirror with compass and map lights.

A note the person (Frank) I been talking with said about our cars:
"You drive a great car.  My previous house mate has one."



For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm



For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:16:29 -0500
From: William Lynn Larsen <wlarsen@ibm.net>
Subject: Team3S: Carolina 3S Drivers

I see that Marc Boulware is from the Carolinas (North I believe) and I
live in Raleigh.  I am wondering how many other 3S Drivers we have on
the lists that live in the Carolinas.  Maybe we can get something going
around here.

I'd be happy to compile a list and keep track of it if yall would like
to send me an email (off the list) with the pertinent information. 

Just so you don't think ill of my intentions, I work for a software
company called Tivoli Systems, Inc. which is a wholly owned but highly
independent subsidiary of IBM. My alternate email address is
lynn.larsen@tivoli.com and you can check out our website at
www.tivoli.com.  So you don't have to worry about getting spammed or
anything like that because of me.

Regards,
Lynn
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

End of Team3S Digest V1 #123
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