--
From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #121
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To:
owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence:
bulk
Team3S Digest
Wednesday, March 10 1999 Volume 01 :
Number
121
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:51:40 EST
From: Htkclk@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Axxis/Stillen Metal Matrix Pads
<< I'm looking for feedback about
their performance, dust, etc. >>
I've had them on the rear for a
couple years. They have no noticeable dust,
especially compared to the
Pagids (front).
Henry
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:01:44 -0600
From: "Jeff" <jw461@nstar.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Correction on roll bar
As a side note, I called Alex at OG after getting
Bob's message to check and
see if the bar was Spyder-compatible. He
called Autopower and they said
"probably not." Does this mean it won't
work? Maybe...maybe not.
Bob, when you get it, let us know how
heavy it is (minus packing) and of
course get us some pics and
measurements:)
jeff
'95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
'90 Mitsubishi
Eclipse GSX
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bob Fontana <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
To:
3000/Stealth Technical List <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date:
Tuesday, March 09, 1999 4:26 PM
Subject: Team3S: Correction on roll
bar
>Alex of O.G. Racing just called me with this
update:
>
>ERW steel has too much of a thickness variance.
NHRA will fail roll bars
>that use ERW steel when put to the sonic
thickness test. Therefore, we
need
>to specifically order DOM
(.134") mild steel. NHRA will also require an
>inner sleeve (which
is how the Autopower bars come) when welding
your
>joints.
>
>Total is $440 + $90 shipping. It is
shipped via semi-trailer, so make sure
>you have a way for the truck to
turn around.
>
>-Bob
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:21:13 EST
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Axxis/Stillen Metal Matrix Pads
I've been using them with the Stillen
Xdrilled Rotors. They worked better then
the stock setup. Very little brake
dust from these pads & the rotors look
great.
Still, after repeated
hard stops from 100+ mph I feel the rotors/pads are not
up to the task. My
car is the 91 model & has a smaller front rotor so this may
be part/all
of the problem.
Arty 91 VR-4
<< Subj: Re: Team3S: Axxis/Stillen
Metal Matrix Pads
Date: 3/9/99 9:55:14 PM Pacific Standard
Time
From: Htkclk@aol.com
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Reply-to:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
<<
I'm looking for feedback about their performance, dust, etc.
>>
I've had them on the rear for a couple years.
They have no noticeable dust,
especially compared to the Pagids
(front).
Henry
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:08:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Frank Chen <jeep1978@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Correction on roll bar
Jeff,
Doesn't the hardtop
convertible's retracting path get in the way of
the rollbar???? I mean
they would have to take several measurements to
make sure since you wouldn't
want to damage the hardtop. Now if you
were doing full convertible then it is
another story then.
- ---Jeff <jw461@nstar.net> wrote:
>
> As
a side note, I called Alex at OG after getting Bob's message to
check
and
> see if the bar was Spyder-compatible. He called Autopower and
they
said
> "probably not." Does this mean it won't work?
Maybe...maybe not.
>
> Bob, when you get it, let us know how heavy
it is (minus packing)
and of
> course get us some pics and
measurements:)
>
> jeff
> '95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
>
'90 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: Bob Fontana <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
>
To: 3000/Stealth Technical List <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
>
Date: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 4:26 PM
> Subject: Team3S: Correction on
roll bar
>
>
> >Alex of O.G. Racing just called me with
this update:
> >
> >ERW steel has too much of a thickness
variance. NHRA will fail
roll bars
> >that use ERW steel when
put to the sonic thickness test.
Therefore, we
> need
> >to
specifically order DOM (.134") mild steel. NHRA will also
require
an
> >inner sleeve (which is how the Autopower bars come) when welding
your
> >joints.
> >
> >Total is $440 + $90
shipping. It is shipped via semi-trailer, so
make sure
> >you
have a way for the truck to turn around.
> >
> >-Bob
>
>
> >For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
>
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
==
-Frank-
"JEEPers"
http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Canyon/6045/
http://felicity.acmecity.com/dorm/31/
_________________________________________________________
DO
YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:24:00 +0100
From: lehir@genesiscom.ch (Genesiscon
Lehir)
Subject: Team3S: New Lister...
Hi guys (and gals ?)
Been
a few days since I'm in lurking mode, and I think I now have to
introduce
myself (or is it my car :-)
I'm Henri Le Hir, from Switzerland, the
reason I'm on this list is because
Roger (gruetzi Roger....) pointed it to
me, just before I bought a 92 Dodge
Stealth RT / Turbo...this car seems to be
a canadian spec one, directly
imported here.
As a background, I've owned
(and modified) a couple "interesting" cars.
CRX (Si) Vtec
Toyota Supra
(single)Turbo (7M-GTE)
Celica All track Turbo(3S-GTE)
Subaru Legacy
Turbo
Subaru SVX
Lexus GS-300 (2JZ-GE)
Nissan 300 Zx Twin Turbo (2+2)
(VG30DETT) [this one is..ahem...slightly
modified :-)]
I'll probably
have a gazillon questions for you in a near future, hope you
won't
mind.
Anyway, here are the first ones...
Where can I find
technical ressources on the net.
Where can I find the mechanics
manual.
Where can I buy the following items...
Blitz Dual Turbo Timer +
Harness for the Stealth
Boost Controller
Are there any mail order
companies you (don't) recommend.
Best....
Henri
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:23:47 -0800
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: New listmember...
- -----Original Message-----
From: lehir@genesiscom.ch [mailto:lehir@genesiscom.ch]
Sent:
Wednesday, March 10, 1999 7:24 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S: New Lister...
<snip>
Where can I find technical
ressources on the net.
Where can I find the mechanics manual.
Where can I
buy the following items...
Blitz Dual Turbo Timer + Harness for the
Stealth
Boost Controller
Are there any mail order companies you (don't)
recommend.
Best....Henri
====================
Henri...
Welcome.
You'll find this list to be a great resource for your technical
questions.
Ask away.
You can buy the shop manuals from Dodge/Mitsubishi, but one of
our members
has a web site where you can order them on CD-ROM. A great way to
go, and
half the cost. The CD has gotten good reviews from several, including
our
friend Roger Gerl. His name is Vineet Singh, and his site address
is:
http://manualcd.dsm.org
I won't
recommend any parts sites, as we discourage commercial advertising,
but
here's some URL's that have been posted in the past:
http://www.nexusmotorsports.com/
http://www.extrememotorsports.com/gscat/full.htm
http://www.alamomotorsports.com/
http://www.modacar.com/
There's also a
couple US members that have started a business, no doubt they
will e-mail you
privately.
Sounds like you've had some great cars, I'll e-mail you
privately as well,
to chat about the CRX and 300Z.
Looking
forward...Chris
1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/HKS Super Flo intake, HKS
SBOV, Predator dry
cell battery, bored and polished throttle body, Magnecore
8.5mm wires, HKS
double platinum plugs gapped at .034", GReddy PRofec A boost
controller,
GReddy turbo timer, ATR downpipe and test pipe, GReddy catback
exhaust,
Eibach 1" drop progressive springs)
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:02:44 EST
From: Dskull@aol.com
Subject: Team3S:
BOV
Can anyone enlighten me on the differences between an external BOV vs
one
that vents back into the intake. Which type will allow better spool
up
recovery ?
Any particular brand/type recommendations ?
Dave 93 VR4 - 5 weeks to first event of year. The countdown
has begun :)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:24:54 -0600
From: "Jeff" <jw461@nstar.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Correction on roll bar
Well, I'm not entirely sure. I know that I
can have a passenger sitting
up-right in the back seats and drop the top and
it doesn't hit them in the
head. I figure with some measurements from
Bob, I'll be able to tell
whether it'll hit or not. I'm not too
concerned with clearance issues tho.
I'm looking more at aesthethics because
the bar will be out in the open with
the top down for everyone to see.
Also, NHRA legality would be nice...but
I'm pretty sure an NHRA bar has to be
6 point, not 4 point.
jeff
'95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
'90
Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
- -----Original Message-----
From: Frank Chen
<jeep1978@yahoo.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date:
Wednesday, March 10, 1999 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Correction on roll
bar
>Jeff,
> Doesn't the hardtop convertible's
retracting path get in the way of
>the rollbar???? I mean they would
have to take several measurements to
>make sure since you wouldn't want to
damage the hardtop. Now if you
>were doing full convertible then it is
another story then.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:19:11 -0500
From: William Lynn Larsen <wlarsen@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Correction on roll bar
Jeff,
Another benifit to NHRA legality (the
benifit would be there even if it
didn't meet NHRA specs, but probably not as
much) is chassis stiffness
which has always been a weak point with
poptops.
Regards,
Lynn '92 ES 3/SI#0232
Jeff wrote:
>
> Well, I'm not entirely sure. I know that I can have a
passenger
> sitting
> up-right in the back seats and drop the top
and it doesn't hit them in
> the
> head. I figure with some
measurements from Bob, I'll be able to tell
> whether it'll hit or
not. I'm not too concerned with clearance issues
> tho.
> I'm
looking more at aesthethics because the bar will be out in the
> open
with
> the top down for everyone to see. Also, NHRA legality would
be
> nice...but
> I'm pretty sure an NHRA bar has to be 6 point, not
4 point.
>
> jeff
> '95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
> '90
Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:00:52 -0500
From: "Bob Fontana" <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Correction on roll bar
NHRA rules for 11.99 to 11.00 is a
5-point roll bar. The points are the two
ends of the hoop, the two rear
stays and a diagonal bar that goes across and
down - from behind your head to
the bottom of the hoop on the passenger
side. It can be
removable. You must also have a horizontal bar (removable
is also
allowed) that runs across the hoop, behind your seats.
- -Bob
>
> the top down for everyone to see. Also, NHRA legality would
be
> > nice...but
> > I'm pretty sure an NHRA bar has to be 6
point, not 4 point.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:07:38 -0800
From: Roger Gerl <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: BOV
> Can anyone enlighten me on the differences between an
external BOV vs one
> that vents back into the intake. Which type will
allow better spool up
> recovery ?
For the spool up recovery both
types are almost the same. The disadavante of the
bypass valves is that the
already hot air will be vented back into the intake
system. Also the stock
"BBV" (blow back valve, hehe) spring is not that stiff
and it doesn't release
the air that fast as an aftermarket BOV. This is why a
combination of the
stock and the external BOV makes sense as the stock one
releases the lower
boost "more softly" and the high boost is vented to the
ambient.
>
Any particular brand/type recommendations ?
Blitz, Greddy, Apexi, HKS ..
I guess all brands have been mounted in our cars.
You can decide between a
sequential type and a normal one. The sequential has
two stages for lower and
higher pressures. I do have the earlier HKS SBOV but
I'm not a fan of plastic
things and it already has some scratches on the finish.
It works and gets rid
of the stock valve like others do too. BTW, the new HKS
S-SBOV is still
plastic as it only has a wrapped around metal case :/ As I do
have to adapt
the stuff for the new IC piping I probably will install the Apexi
BOV
then.
Hope this helps,
Roger, Switzerland
(still in
California)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:06:52 -0600
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re:
Smoked by a ZR1 -Reply
Yasuna J. Murakami wrote: [snips]
> I have
to comment on silliness. I have a modified
> stage 6 3000 GT VR-4.
3000VR-4 is great car, can challenge most cars in
> acceleration etc but
you would think they
> were talking about Ferrari F50 or McLaren F1. I
owned
> 94 Supra TT, now a 3000 GT VR-4, and family/neighbors
Ferraris/Porsches.
> enough is enough. 3000 GT VR-4 is not in same league
as some of
> these other cars.
Silliness...hmm. In
conjunction with some other messages explaining
carefully how outclassed the
VR4 is compared to Supras, NSX, RX7,
Skyline, F40(!), McClaren (!!)
etc: back to back tests are hard to come
by, but as outlined by Todd
Shelton and SEEN on Japanese-origin
VIDEOtape of multiple races on-track
against a wide variety of cars,
3000VR4/GTO did quite nicely, thank you,
usually placing at least
midpack and higher, never last :) and SPECIFICALLY
beating up regularly
on Supra TT, RX7...and beating NSX sometimes. F40
always won when in
contest. Saw some GREAT battles between VR4
and "Mighty Skyline",
which usually came out ahead of 3000 (somewhat).
If it WON some of the
official class-races as you've said, that is
great!
As for indicating that because 3000 was not the SOLE WINNER
OVERALL in a
yearlong series, it is way inferior, that is obviously
bunk. By such a
standard every other car was highly inferior also,
which maintains us in
good company indeed :)
As for SPECIFIC data
stock-to-stock, a Road and Track article from 1994
compared 3000VR4, SupraTT,
CorvetteLT1, Nissan 300ZXTT. The quickest
laptime around the Streets of
Willow course was by Supra; SECOND, by
_ONE TENTH_ of a second, was the
3000VR4; third was Vette, 0.5
seconds/lap BEHIND VR4; and LAST was 300ZX,
which was 1.7 seconds/lap
behind VR4! Remember how TOTALLY acclaimed
the Supra was when it first
came out, proclaimed by mags better than various
Ferrari/Porsche etc
"exotics"? Pffft. 0.1 seconds/lap faster than
sadly huge, heavy,
corpulent, understeering, underbraked 3000VR4.
> My modified 3000VR-4 can now beat ZR-1, only through extensive
modifications.
ZR1 are excellent and powerful, regularly turning
quartermiles in the
mid 13's at 105-109mph range as witnessed by me at
dragstrip. VR4 can
do 12's at 107-109 with boost increase (as simple
and zero-cost as
removing a hose, or using a fish valve for $0.59) an exhaust
and
airfilter. Hardly requires more than about $600. I know
because I DID
it. If one chooses more expensive options that is one's
own choice.
> I read on website person racing Ferrari F40 believing he
could beat it if had proper
> modifications! I have driven an F-40; car is
on another level. if you could beat
> it (if the F-40 driver was
incompetent) on the short term acceleration front
Ferrari F40 are
excellent and powerful. As the person who raced that
F40, hampered by
cheap gas causing knocksensor timing retard and without
my nitrous, the cars
were extremely close--with him getting the jump on
shifts because of better
spoolup but me keeping up once on boost. With
better octane it would
have been virtual tie; with nitrous he would have
fallen behind. It is
a truism that once some people sense a weakness in
their argument, and
ESPECIALLY if one has some "seat time" which leads
them to think well of
themselves and their automotive opinion, the "you
only won because the driver
[whom, interestingly, the speaker never
has/will EVER know] was incompetent"
statement comes out.
My car has documented quartermile times in
the 10.8 second/128mph
range. Please, show me the statistics (you seem
VERY well read on mag
stats and articles) wherein the F40 has beaten that; or
were ALL those
drivers incompetent as well? You can bring Ayrton Senna
back from the
dead, put him in that F40, and he will not beat my car in
acceleration.
I will crush Ayrton Senna in that F40...from a roll.
From a STOP?
Sayonara!
Of course, my car is "modified", bringing its
cost to somewhere around ?
1/10 the cost of that F40. Living in the
real world, I plead poverty
and must make do. Sigh.
>
car is far better balanced/lighter, so any turns would call
> for doom to
the 3000 GT racer.
No argument there. It is far lighter, and handles
better.
> I heard drivers claim "dusted"
> Porsche
Turbos. I have driven 1998 Porsche Turbo S and modified
> 1997
Porsche Ruf Turbo, both cars would destroy any
> 3000 GT on the
track.
Hmm. I have personally bested (but not destroyed)
Porsche AWD TT cars
on track (Road America) both in dry and in rain; one had
stickers and
such looking like some stockish-class racer; and NONE passed me
but one
I let by, and subsequently passed and left behind. Very
excellent cars,
the AWD TT. A worthy adversary, I am happy to say; and
in several ways
superior. But only somebody with self-car-loathing
would take being
able to BEST such cars on track and turn it into "would
destroy _ANY_
3000GT on the track". If one has $120,000 for the car,
and $30-60,000+
(!) for Ruf etc mods, that's nice.
Like Clint Eastwood
said, "A man's gotta know his limitations". I am
sure you were speaking
for yourself, and that is fine ;)
> My father's Ferrari 512 TR
has much
> better feel/sound than my 3000 GT could ever achieve. the
heavy
> weight/sound deadening material in 3000 GT are total
hinderances.
512: NOW we are talking about a big, heavy car--about
as heavy as
ours! 512 are excellent, powerful cars. I don't, and
who really could,
know that it feels/sounds better than a 3000 could
EVER
achieve...especially as sound and feel are matters of
personal
preference.
> Anyone raced a BMW M3? In stock form,
an M3 can give 3000 GT a run for its
> money.
That is true, M3's
are excellent but not very powerful cars. They
handle well, but getting
MEANINGFUL horsepower out of them is very
costly, far more so than 3000's;
and I have regularly trounced every
single M3 I have ever encountered at Road
America and Grattan, Michigan;
usually because of their woefully inadequate
powerplants...cornering was
about a wash, but ACCELERATING out of the corner
the AWD eats them up;
in the straight it is goodbye. Of course, with
factory backing, extreme
modifications, BMW's can be made very fast; as can
anything else with
factory backing ;) Did you ever notice how every
time Car & Driver
proclaimed the M3 the "best handling car" etc in
comparison tests, they
essentially NEVER published LAP TIMES ?!? Of
course, it is because the
Ferrari 355, Corvette, etc that were "inferior" in
the test outcome to
the M3 so easily beat the M3's laptimes, but publishing
THAT would
reveal their conclusion to be as highly questionable as it IS...
> Japanese car I really want for which I would sell 10 3000GT is
mighty Nissan Skyline GTR.
> stock form it could give many supercars a run
for its money.
> 1000 HP is widely avaliable. has real 4 wheel steering,
all
> wheel drive, with handling and balance to match.
Skyline GTR
are excellent and powerful cars. A little (well, ALOT) too
"sedan-like"
styling for my taste, which tends toward the "beautiful"
(see most
Ferraris...and almost no Porsches) but really neat and lots of
parts out
there...for those unwilling to blaze a new trail and enjoy the
role of
giant-killers (see 3000/Stealth modifiers).
> if someone brag they can
"dust" whatever out their, BS
> factor alarms should be ringing. To me it
is no different from the Mustang
> drivers. As for beating these cars on
track I congratulate you if you really have
> beaten these Porsche Turbos,
etc. You are truly a great driver
No, I am not a great driver. I
suspect I am a relatively average
driver, which is fine; my car, a 3000GT
VR4, however, IS great, and good
competition for pretty much anything out
there up to over-$300,000
range. I am quite happy with that FACT.
Are there superior race-cars?
"Street cars" costing $300,000-$1,000,000 that
will beat me around a
track handily? Sure there are. My car cost
me $31,900 NEW, and has a
total cost somewhere around $45,000 now.
Maybe a little more, maybe
less...who's counting, when the only other car I'd
consider (Porsche AWD
Turbo) (well OK I like 355's too) is about $120,000 and
I now can
compete with on about-even footing, all the while causing jaws to
drop
and "well-founded" rather poor opinions about 3000VR4's to explode
all
the while?
Any boob can take a Porsche, spend boatloads of money,
and go fast/act
cool/snobby/pronounce others' inferiority. Many
do! I don't and never
will have boatloads of money; I have chosen
a more interesting route, a
route less-travelled; and that has made all the
difference!
(Apologies to any poetry-wonks out there :)
Mr.
Murakami, you sound like a very nice and intelligent man, with
good
experience and knowledge. Thank you for your well-written
letters,
which have well thought-out opinions, some of which I disagree with.
This IS the 3000/Stealth mailing list, and so you will forgive me
and
others, I hope, for defending our cars and having the chutzpah
to
maintain that our cars are NOT second-class citizens, but
interesting
first-class citizens with some strengths we revel in, and
some
weaknesses we work (WITHOUT any factory/large corporation backing)
to
correct--successfully, in most cases! I simply don't wish to have
to
preface every encounter with a ZR-1 or Ferrari or whatever
with
apologies admitting how inferior and outclassed I really am but I won
a
race because the other driver clearly must have been incompetent or
it
would be impossible. Placing a sickly sheen of "this is the 3000
list
and as long as everybody FIRST recognizes how many superior cars to
ours
there are, you can go on with your message" is sadly depressing IMO,
and
unnecessary.
SURE there are faster cars! But there are way
more SLOWER cars...and we
have the ability to VASTLY improve our cars'
performance for what
amounts to RELATIVE bargain prices! We do it in
ALL weather, and in the
real world (McClaren and F40 etc are just not).
ENJOY the cars with us,
this is our chosen make! Complain about the
weaknesses (brakes, weight,
etc) and help us SOLVE the problems! Don't
be a yes-man, your letters
are enjoyable and mostly true, and I hope we can
argue in good spirit
and sometimes pointedly, but that is fine
too.
Sincerely and Enjoyably Yours,
Jack Tertadian
1993 3000GT
VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:23:04 -0700
From: "james berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Re: Smoked by a ZR1 -Reply
Put the gun down Jack !!! Just put the
gun down, and step away from the
wepon. :-)
- --
>>As for
indicating that because 3000 was not the SOLE WINNER OVERALL in
a
>yearlong series, it is way inferior, that is obviously bunk. By
such a
>standard every other car was highly inferior also, which maintains
us in
>good company indeed :)
>
>> My modified 3000VR-4 can
now beat ZR-1, only through extensive
modifications.
>
>>Of
course, my car is "modified", bringing its cost to somewhere around
?
>1/10 the cost of that F40. Living in the real world, I plead
poverty
>>driver, which is fine; my car, a 3000GT VR4, however, IS
great, and good
>competition for pretty much anything out there up to
over-$300,000
>?
>
>Any boob can take a Porsche, spend
boatloads of money, and go fast/act
>cool/snobby/pronounce others'
inferiority. Many do! I don't and never
>will have
boatloads of money; I have chosen a more interesting route, a
For
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------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:49:06 EST
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Usable Wheel or
Rim widths ?
Anyone using a wider wheel (not tire) then the 8.5JJ size on
a VR-4?
I'm trying to determine what is the widest wheel I can use. Can I
run
a rim size of 16 x 10 or is this too wide?
My stock wheel on my 91
VR-4 was 17 x 8.5 JJ with a 46mm offset.
I understand that I can reduce the
size to 16 inch but the width is in
question.
If I can use the 16 x 10
inch width any idea of the offset?
Arty 91 VR-4
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------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:49:53 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Usable Wheel or Rim widths ?
Aso8@aol.com wrote:
>
> Anyone using
a wider wheel (not tire) then the 8.5JJ size on a VR-4?
> I'm trying to
determine what is the widest wheel I can use. Can I run
> a rim size of 16
x 10 or is this too wide?
> My stock wheel on my 91 VR-4 was 17 x 8.5 JJ
with a 46mm offset.
> I understand that I can reduce the size to 16 inch
but the width is in
> question.
> If I can use the 16 x 10 inch
width any idea of the offset?
> Arty 91 VR-4
> For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
The
math is pretty easy. If you increase the width by 1.5 inches ~=
38.1mm,
you want to decrease the offset by half that amount or 19mm. So
46mm
-19mm = 27mm offset. A 9.5 inch width would give you 1 inch ~=
25.4
mm. 46mm - 13mm = 33mm.
Now the real question is who is running 9.5
or 10 inch width wheels and
what offset are you using?
- --
Ken
Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
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------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:57:13 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: Smoked by a ZR1 -Reply
>Hmm. I have personally
bested (but not destroyed) Porsche AWD TT cars
>on track (Road America)
both in dry and in rain;
Jack: How did you get onto Road America?
What club?
The only club I can find running regularly at Elkhart Lake is the
Cobra
Club, and they are Fords only.
Man, I'd give my left nut to run
at RA.
Rich/old poop/VR4
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web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:08:41 -0600
From: "Jeff" <jw461@nstar.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Correction on roll bar
Cool! So the bars that run forward off the
hoop between your elbow and
shoulders to the front footwells are not
necessary? Those have been my
biggest hinderance because they make it
hard to get into the car and aren't
very good looking. If the
horizontal bar that runs across the hoop and the
diagonal bar that runs
across the hoop (but diagonally) are separate, how do
you keep them from
hitting each other?
jeff
'95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
'90 Mitsubishi
Eclipse GSX
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bob Fontana <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date:
Wednesday, March 10, 1999 2:02 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Correction on roll
bar
>NHRA rules for 11.99 to 11.00 is a 5-point roll bar.
The points are the
two
>ends of the hoop, the two rear stays and a
diagonal bar that goes across
and
>down - from behind your head to the
bottom of the hoop on the passenger
>side. It can be
removable. You must also have a horizontal bar (removable
>is also
allowed) that runs across the hoop, behind your
seats.
>
>-Bob
>
>> > the top down for everyone to
see. Also, NHRA legality would be
>> > nice...but
>>
> I'm pretty sure an NHRA bar has to be 6 point, not 4
point.
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:07:09 -0500
From: Brian Danley <bcdmad@concentric.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Axxis/Stillen Metal Matrix Pads
[Brian Danley] I think
break lines help a great deal also. The Goodrich
brake lines (I need a set)
will help a lot with mushy feeling in the stock
setup. I have
PowerSlot rotors and I love them. The are better (didn't
test the
before and after) than stock and don't warp like the stock ones
do.
You can turn them ... but I put 45K miles on my VR-4 last year (30K
with the
new rotors) and haven't had them warp on me like the stock ones
did (2-3
times in 15k miles).
Still, after repeated hard stops from 100+
mph I feel the rotors/pads are
not
up to the task. My car is the 91 model
& has a smaller front rotor so this
may
be part/all of the
problem.
Arty 91 VR-4
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------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:26:38 -0800
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Usable Wheel or Rim widths ?
Ken Middaugh wrote:
>
Aso8@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >
Anyone using a wider wheel (not tire) then the 8.5JJ size on a VR-4?
>
> I'm trying to determine what is the widest wheel I can use. Can I
run
> > a rim size of 16 x 10 or is this too wide?
A 16" wheel
might not clear the brakes. You might be okay since
brakes on the 91-93
are smaller. Just ditch the brakes and get a
parachute.
:)
> The math is pretty easy. If you increase the width by 1.5
inches ~=
> 38.1mm, you want to decrease the offset by half that amount or
19mm. So
> 46mm -19mm = 27mm offset. A 9.5 inch width would
give you 1 inch ~=
> 25.4 mm. 46mm - 13mm = 33mm.
That's a
good rule of thumb to use if you want to maintain the same
track, but the
rule isn't always followed. I wish it were that simple.
Blitz
Wheels recommends the following: (all offsets in mm)
For a Supra
JZA80, if you run 17x9 in the rear, they recommend
either 38 or 41
offset. But they recommend a 45 offset for 18x10
and a 42 offset for
18x10.5.
There are tons of other examples in the brochure where
they
recommend a higher offset when going to a wider wheel.
The
reason is probably because there is enough clearance within
the
wheelwell, so this allows you to avoid having the wheels
sticking out.
On our cars, we don't have a whole lot of clear-
ance to play
with.
> Now the real question is who is running 9.5 or 10 inch width
wheels and
> what offset are you using?
My friend Julian runs 18x9
w/ a 45 offset on a 94 VR4. He
probably could have gone down to 42
offset, but after that
clearing the brakes would have been a problem.
Mikael in
Sweden had to shave his calipers when only putting on
18x8.5's,
so a lot depends on the design of the wheels. Also, there is
a
guy in Japan with a GTO running 18x10's front and back, and
this car is
streetable. This is the Bozz Speed GTO, and you
can see pics
here:
http://www.bozz.co.jp/auto-s99/index.html
I
would say that you could safely go with 18x10's front and
back as long as
your offset was in the very low 30's or (better
yet) in the 20's. This
corresponds with Ken's calculations given
above. R33 Skylines commonly
run offsets of 22 in the front
and rear for any wheel size from 17x9 to
18x10. The highest
offset used for a Skyline is 30 for an 18x9.5
wheel. Just go with
a mid or low 20's offset and then get some flared
fender like
the Bozz Speed guy.
Later,
- --Errin
Humphrey
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 Mar 1999 19:45:30 -0500
From: "Bob Fontana" <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Correction on roll bar
There aren't any forward
bars.
Look at http://209.19.107.64/ogshell/loadpage.pl?94+catroll.html.
The roll
bar pictured at the top of the page is the same basic design.
The main hoop
sits behind the seats as does the diagnonal bar. For your
car, it will be a
challenge to install since the trunk area stores the
roof. The legs need to
go somewhere. Without them, the hoop is no
good since there's nothing to
support it. That's probably why Autopower
says that they don't make one for
the Spyder.
- -Bob
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:49:02 -0800
From: Steven Clarke <steve.clarke@e-d-a.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Re: Smoked by a ZR1 -Reply
Jack
Very well put ! You
made some excellent points.
I especially agree with your comments about
the way in which the magazines
bias their interpretation of the test
data. Just one example, the R&T
article that you mentioned went on
to say that only one of their drivers
had been able to post the fastest lap
time in the Supra, whereas just about
anybody could get the 0.1 second
slower time in the VR4.
For most real world drivers (like me) the ease of
going quickly and
consistently in a VR4 was the most important finding, yet
most of the
magazines completely miss this point.
Some years ago I
lapped (like 8 or 9 times during the day) a host of more
expensive exotics
including an Esprit Turbo, a F348 and F512 at a Lagna
Seca "Green
Flag" day some years ago. When my (Mellow Yellow) VR4 was
totally
stock. By far the nicest part was the growing respect for VR4's
and
the informed debate that I generated in the pits after each
session.
Steve Clarke
Yellow VR4
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------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:12:57 -0600
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Road
America event clubs
Merritt wrote:
> Jack: How did you get
onto Road America? What club?
> The only club I can find running regularly
at Elkhart Lake is the Cobra
> Club, Fords only.
I have gone with
the BMW clubs (Badger Bimmers from Wisconsin, and Windy
City Chapter from
Illinois); the Nord Stern Porsche club from
Minnesota. The Alfa Romeo
club has a great (read: not over-supervised
:) Road America
outing; there are probably others, but the group I have
"hung" with goes to
these usually.
Jack T.
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------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:13:55 -0600
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Re: Smoked by a ZR1 -Reply
james berry wrote:
> Put the gun down
Jack !!! Just put the gun down, and step away from the
> weapon.
:-)
ROFLMAO!
JT
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------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 10 Mar 1999 22:02:59 -0600
From: Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Road America event clubs
>
>I have gone with the BMW
clubs (Badger Bimmers from Wisconsin, and Windy
>City Chapter from
Illinois); the Nord Stern Porsche club from
>Minnesota. The Alfa
Romeo club has a great (read: not over-supervised
>:) Road
America outing; there are probably others, but the group I have
>"hung"
with goes to these usually.
Jack: Got any dates? How about club phone
numbers?
Where are you anyway? Wanna go with me to
Topeka?
Rich/old poop/94 VR4
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 11 Mar 1999 02:07:36 -0500
From: Jason Barnhart <phnxgld@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Re: Smoked by a ZR1 -Reply
Very well written Jack, glad
you're on our team :P I'd like to add a few things if I could.
If I
read correctly, when you raced the F40 on the street, it was from a rolling
start, and he
never got more than a car legnth ahead, right? This, on
top of the fact that you weren't
running maximum boost. I'll be the
first to admit that the VR4 may not be the 'best' car in
stock trim from a
cost-is-no-object standpoint, but I own my VR4 for one reason only. At
this
price, I feel that the VR4 is the 'best' choice. Yes this is
opinion, but I consider it a good
one. It's cheaper than a Supra, yet
you get more options. Maybe not the same reliablity, this
is assuming
that the Supra carries the typical Toyota reliability. I'd gladly take the
AWD
over slightly better reliability, and in my opinion, the VR4 is a much
better looking car. If
only you could have seen the grin on my face
yesterday as I easily traversed a snow covered
hill that several cars and a
truck were not able to climb, this after passing a few cars that
had slid off
the road. This is on Pzeros, which probably aren't the best winter
tire. Hell,
I'd bet a stock VR4 could hit 60 mph in under 6 seconds in
the rain.
The VR4 has bested NSXs, Supras, and even Vipers from what I
hear. This may not be a regular
occurance, and in some cases the road
course surfaces were less than perfect (much like a
street), but it's an easy
car to drive. An idiot could drive a VR4 fast, I know because I am
an
idiot ;) , and I've driven my VR4 fast. If profesional drivers were
running on perfect
courses, the aforementioned cars would probably get the
better of the VR4, but few of us are
profesional-level drivers, and streets
are rarely ever close to perfect.
Without knowing for sure, I'd still
be willing to bet that half a million dollars could
create a VR4 that would
annihalate F40s in all areas and you wouldn't even have to pull a
string to
open the door. Lets remove anything that doesn't contribute to
performance, place a
carbon fiber body on it, maybe a tube fram, etc...
Let's not even discuss what a full million
dollars (Mclaren F1) could do, and
the end result would be a car that doesn't have hideous
attempts a bumpers,
and can't be run hard for fear of overheating.
If Jack's right, which
I don't doubt for a second, the average ZR1 driver can turn mid 13s.
Only
racing twice I was able to get one 14.07 run (missed 3rd gear), two 13.7s, two
ore more
13.6s, and two 13.3s. This was done with an essentially stock
VR4. 88k miles, original plugs
and wires which turned out to be gapped
at .045+ causing regular acceleration stumbles, and
only an air filter for
mods.
Well, I think that's enough for now, just defending a great
car.
Jason
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------------------------------
End
of Team3S Digest V1 #121
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