--
From:
owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To:
stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.comSubject:
Team3S Digest V1 #113
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender:
owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.comErrors-To:
owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.comPrecedence:
bulk
Team3S Digest Sunday,
February 28 1999 Volume 01 : Number
113
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 27 Feb 1999 22:13:33 -0500
From: "Stealth" <
cirrus@shore.intercom.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Was this one of you guys?
As luck would have it, when I walked
outside to take my
just-turned-13-year-old to
her 13th birthday party
today, one of my tires was flat.
So I took my ratty old pickup truck (not
a bad thing when transporting a
kid, a birthday cake, presents, and the
obligatory 13th-birthday-party stuff
to the skating rink) instead.
I
pulled out onto Rt. 50 West...and right behind me was a black 94+
Stealth
Twin Turbo. It had the HKS logo on the hood, OBVIOUS exhaust, a
Nitto
sticker, and a "tambane" or something like that sticker on the
back...It
just figures, once every 6 months I might drive the truck instead
of the
Stealth. Just my luck, I was driving an invisible (invisible-plebeian
not
invisible-stealthy) pickup truck...there were two guys in it, who of
course
no more noticed the Mouse on Wheels than the ubiquitous chicken
carcasses
alongside the road.
License tag was EVL 159 or something
like that.
This was halfway between Ocean City, Maryland, and Salisbury,
Maryland,
about noon today...wasn't one of you guys was
it?
Robyn
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 27 Feb 1999 23:13:59 -0500
From: "Fein, Edward" <
fein@strategy.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: rear turbo precat removal
Not sure if anyone's answered this yet
(I'm just catching up on mail) but
I'll give my 2 cents anyways.
I
pulled my rear pre-cat last year to gut it, and loan to TJ Tuck as a blank
to
see if he could get replacements fabricated. Turns out the thing is WAY
to
complicated to fabricate a replacement for, unless you do it right on the
car
and use like 17 hours labor... The rear O2 housing and precat are the
same
unit, and between the odd-shaped connection to the turbo and all the
heat
shield brackets, the thing's pretty complicated.
However, for those
interested in removing the thing, here's the
instructions. And yes, it is a
major pain in many body parts...
1. Pull the upper intercooler pipe from
the rear turbo, and move whatever
hoses and wires you need to in order to get
to the rear turbo.
2. Remove the downpipe from under the car.
3.
Remove the heat shields from around the rear turbo. Note that there is
a
"bolt from hell" on the back of the rear heat shield next to the
firewall...
this is easiest to get out from below with a long 12mm crescent
wrench, even
though you won't be able to get your hand on the bolt from
below. (Putting
it back in has to be done from above by feel alone... I only
dropped it once
myself...)
4. Unbolt the rear pre-cat. That's four
bolts from the hot side of the
turbo, and one bolt from the bottom.
5.
Ok, now the damn thing won't actually fit out of the car. Locate the
two
power steering hardlines which are blocking the heat shielding on
the
pre-cat from moving upwards out of the car. Unbolt both these hardlines
(oh,
and drain the power steering system...)
6. Wrestle the pre-cat
out the top of the engine bay. It takes a while, and
you have to figure out
just the right angle, but it can be done.
7. Gut the pre-cat, and knock
the now-uneccesary heat shielding off so that
the damn thing will fit back in
the car.
7a. If you're me, take the pipe to a welding shop to patch the
holes that
resulted when the welds broke, since the heat shields were welded
to the
welds in the pipe...
8. With the heat shields off the pre-cat,
it will fit back in past the power
steering hardlines, so bolt the hardlines
back in place. Note that to get
the upper hardline to the correct angle for
attachment, you'll need to
unbolt the hardline from the crossmember behind
the driver's side wheel. (It
only took me about four hours to figure that one
out.)
9. Put the pipe back in the same way you got it out. Don't drop the
nuts
from the turbo housing, or you could be in for a long
search...
10. Replace the heat shields, upper pipes, downpipe, etc.
Refill the Power
Steering Fluid (I reccomend Redline Synthetic Power Steering
Fluid) and
you're good to go...
That's it.
[11. If you're me,
get about 30 feet and run out of Power Steering Fluid. Go
back into the
garage and spend 2 hours removing stuff to discover that while
battling the
upper power steering hardline (see step 8) the lower one came
loose. Reattach
the hardlines, again, bolt everything back in, again, refill
the power
steering system, again, and take off, again, 4 hours later... for
those who
are wondering, that was why I was a bit late to the Quickening
last
year.]
-Ed
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 27 Feb 1999 23:14:00 -0500
From: "Fein, Edward" <
fein@strategy.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: EGR
Beg to differ. On '94+ turbo models, your EGR temperature
sensor will throw
Check Engine lights at random intervals with a blocked EGR
valve.
More importantly, consensus among list experts is that the ECU
adjusts fuel
levels to compensate for the change in mixture when the EGR
valve is open.
Normally, low-oxygen exhaust gas enrichens the mixture, so the
ECU will
reduce fuel levels when it signals the EGR valve to open. If the EGR
system
is blocked, this will lean out the system, and on a modified car, this
could
lead to detonation... i.e. BAD.
-Ed
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
schwieg@ibm.net [
mailto:schwieg@ibm.net]
> Sent:
Thursday, February 25, 1999 10:55 PM
> To:
'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'>
Subject: RE: Team3S: EGR
>
> Yes, nothing. It should keep the
intake air cooler. Just block it off with
> a metal gasket.
>
Bryan
>
> ----------
> From:
10100101@collegeclub.com[
SMTP:10100101@collegeclub.com]
>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 1999 11:25 AM
> To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: EGR
>
> Has anyone disconnected their EGR? What
did it affect?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Why is College Club the largest and fastest growing college student
site?
> Find out for yourself at
http://www.collegeclub.com>
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm>
>
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 27 Feb 1999 23:14:03 -0500
From: "Fein, Edward" <
fein@strategy.com>
Subject: Team3S:
"Asymetrical Turbocharging"?
Just picked up some info from a Saab
dealership.
The latest Saab 9-5 comes with an "asymetrically
turbocharged" 3.0 liter V6.
Turns out that this means that a turbo is hooked
up to the front bank of
cyliders (just like our front turbos), but there's no
rear turbo. The rear
bank flows directly to the downpipe, looks like.
Interesting thing about
this setup - since it's a light-pressure turbo on
only one of the two banks,
they don't use a wastegate at all.
Now,
this got me thinking (always a dangerous activity)... Obviously
this
particular setup would suck for spoolup purposes, but maybe a similar
idea
could be beneficial for our cars.
Ok:
1. Our rear exhaust
manifold is a good design, and a 15G is pretty much all
that will fit back
there between the engine and the firewall.
2. The front exhaust manifold
sucks, but there's more room for a bigger
turbo.
So why couldn't we
just get a good front manifold and mount a 16G or bigger
turbo up front?
Spool-up would be faster with one small turbo in the back
blowing, then the
big one would kick in for more boost.
Something like this was discussed
about a year ago, and there were concerns
about varying pressures between the
two banks of cylinders. If this is a
concern then how can Saab get away with
having a turbo one one bank and
nothing at all on the other? That would be a
far more extreme pressure
difference... Maybe they probably use different
exhaust camshafts?
Also, I guess you'd need the wastegate to open on the
smaller turbo earlier
than the larger one, to avoid overspooling it, so
tuning would be a b*tch.
Anyways, it's an idea. Probably not a very good
one.
But I still think the Saab design is pretty interesting, especially
since
they don't use a wastegate at all... I think they use electronic
throttle
control to modulate boost indirectly by closing the
throttle.
-Ed
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 27 Feb 1999 23:14:01 -0500
From: "Fein, Edward" <
fein@strategy.com>
Subject: Team3S:
RE: Tire Size for Rims
>Ok, guys, so in your opinions, is going from
225-55-HR16's to 245-50-ZR16's
>on the factory 16x8 rims a good idea- will
it give me better traction and
>not cost handling? Or would I be
better off getting 225-55-ZR16's. New
>rims aren't an option
for my budget:(
Assuming the wheels are near the standard 46mm offset for
our cars (which I
believe is true) go with the 245's. You'll get better
traction and handling,
you won't notice the downsides (marginally more noise,
wander, and rolling
resistance). But more important than size, make sure you
get a good tire to
begin with. A few extra bucks to get a high-quality tire
are well worth it.
-Ed
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 27 Feb 1999 23:37:31 -0500
From: Ron Thompson <
rtetetet@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Re: Tire Size for Rims WAS: RE: Team3S: trying to place 17x7.5 rims
on a 94 vr-4
I put Firehawk SZ50's on my 93SL in that size and they
were great.
Extra linear traction and lateral as well. Worked great and
I
recommend it..
Ron
"
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:47:51 -0700
From: "PHorschel" <
phorschel@utah-inter.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Rear Suspension Camber
Hello all,
I have a problem with
the camber in the rear wheels. My rear tires don't
seem to last beyond
15K miles without severe wear to the inside edge. I was
planning on
lowering my car but this is stopping me. If you look at the
back of the
car the wheels look like this: / \
I have been to a few different
alignment shops and they say the car is
within specs. I don't have a
sheet handy but I think they said the car(93
VR4) calls for this amount of
camber and my adjustment is maxed out so I
can't have any less. Does
anyone have this type of problem? I heard it was
common on the 91-93
models. Does anyone know if there is there is any
difference in the
rear suspension of the twin turbo models from 91-93 to
94-up? Someone
also told me I cold get my upper control arm lengthened.
Have any of you guys
had this done to your cars? I don't really want to go
this route but I
will do it if it is necessary. If the 94-up had a longer
upper arm that
would be a better way. Did those of you with lowered cars
have to
modify your suspension arms or was there enough in the adjustment
to
compensate? How much camber do you guys run out back? Any help
would be
greatly appreciated.
- -Paul Horschel-
- --Copper 93
3000GT Twin Turbo--
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 27 Feb 1999 23:58:33 -0800
From: Joe Gonsowski <
twinturbo@mediaone.net>
Subject:
Team3S: JET-HOT anyone?
Hello, I've been watching the posts as instructed
for a week or so and
am now ready to jump in. I'm impressed with the
technical information
shared in this forum and have gained a few valuable tid
bits. I
recently purchased a '92 twin turbo Stealth with several mods
from
previous owner (Alan Lin). Mods include:
15G turbos
HKS EVC III (18 psi)
VPC
upgraded Intercooler & larger diameter
pipes
injector and prom upgrade
2.5"
downpipe w 3" Borla exhaust
updated ('93)
transaxle
RPS clutch
And many others including
Recaro seats, Momo wheel, 18" OZ Monte Carlo's
w Yokohama rubber, Brembo
brakes, a wing, and perhaps most radical, a
3.5" drop. I don't
necessarily agree with all the mods, but I can live
with them.
Enough
about the car, let's cut to the chase. I was wondering if anyone
has
used JET-HOT coating on the exhaust and / or intercooler pipes. BTY
- -
I'm not sure about my intercooler pipes origin, they're steel tubing
with two
separate pipes leading from rear turbo to intercooler and I
believe another
two from intercooler to intake. Whereas the shorter
routing for the
front turbo only uses one pipe before and after the
intercooler. All
pipes are joined with flexible hose.
I've seen others wrap the pipes to
keep the heat out but it takes up
more real estate than a coating. I
think I might try JET-HOT if it
works as well as the wrap not to mention the
cleaner appearance (looks
like chrome or polished aluminum). If I coat
them, the question then
becomes how much? Do I coat every square inch,
or are the temps outside
the pipes sometimes cooler than the compressed
air? I'm sure I'd want
to coat near the turbos, but what about just
before the intercooler
(example: the compressed air entering the left
intercooler is perhaps
warmer than the left wheel well environment - thus you
would want an
exchange of heat).
Any input on the use of JET-HOT or
Thermal wrap on intercooler pipes or
exhaust manifolds would be
appreciated. Thanks.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 27 Feb 1999 23:33:22 -0600
From: Trevor James <
trevorlj@feist.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Silicone Brake Fluid
That's a BAD thing. In non-race applications
you want your brake fluid to absorb water
so that your brake system
components don't rust. Just use a quality Dot 4 fluid and
bleed it
often.
Trevor
96 R/T TT(His)
91 R/T TT(Hers)
Don Kessler
wrote:
> Has anyone used silicone brake fluid in their cars. I like
the fact that
> will not absorb water. Are there other issues with
its' use?
>
> Thanks for your ideas.
>
> Don
> For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFor
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 27 Feb 1999 23:36:27 -0600
From: Trevor James <
trevorlj@feist.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Anyone knoe the Cd of our cars?
Anyone know off hand what the Coefficient
of Drag is for our cars?
Trevor
96 R/T TT (His)
91 R/T TT
(Hers)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:26:14 -0700
From: "james berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
rear turbo precat removal
Jeeze ----- I'm sorry I asked !!!
:-)
- -----Original Message-----
From: Fein, Edward <
fein@strategy.com>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
<
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date:
Saturday, February 27, 1999 9:14 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: rear turbo precat
removal
>
>I pulled my rear pre-cat last year to gut it, and
loan to TJ Tuck as a
blank
>to see if he could get replacements
fabricated. Turns out the thing is WAY
>to complicated to fabricate a
replacement for, unless you do it right on
the
>car and use like 17
hours labor... The rear O2 housing and precat are the
>same unit, and
between the odd-shaped connection to the turbo and all the
>heat shield
brackets, the thing's pretty complicated.
>
>However, for those
interested in removing the thing, here's the
>instructions. And yes, it is
a major pain in many body parts...
>
>1. Pull the upper intercooler
pipe from the rear turbo, and move whatever
>hoses and wires you need to
in order to get to the rear turbo.
>
>2. Remove the downpipe from
under the car.
>
>3. Remove the heat shields from around the rear
turbo. Note that there is a
>"bolt from hell" on the back of the rear heat
shield next to the
firewall...
>this is easiest to get out from below
with a long 12mm crescent wrench,
even
>though you won't be able to get
your hand on the bolt from below. (Putting
>it back in has to be done from
above by feel alone... I only dropped
it
once
>myself...)
>
>4. Unbolt the rear pre-cat. That's
four bolts from the hot side of the
>turbo, and one bolt from the
bottom.
>
>5. Ok, now the damn thing won't actually fit out of the
car. Locate the two
>power steering hardlines which are blocking the heat
shielding on the
>pre-cat from moving upwards out of the car. Unbolt both
these hardlines
(oh,
>and drain the power steering
system...)
>
>6. Wrestle the pre-cat out the top of the engine bay.
It takes a while, and
>you have to figure out just the right angle, but it
can be done.
>
>7. Gut the pre-cat, and knock the now-uneccesary
heat shielding off so that
>the damn thing will fit back in the
car.
>
>7a. If you're me, take the pipe to a welding shop to patch
the holes that
>resulted when the welds broke, since the heat shields were
welded to the
>welds in the pipe...
>
>8. With the heat
shields off the pre-cat, it will fit back in past the
power
>steering
hardlines, so bolt the hardlines back in place. Note that to get
>the
upper hardline to the correct angle for attachment, you'll need to
>unbolt
the hardline from the crossmember behind the driver's side
wheel.
(It
>only took me about four hours to figure that one
out.)
>
>9. Put the pipe back in the same way you got it out. Don't
drop the nuts
>from the turbo housing, or you could be in for a long
search...
>
>10. Replace the heat shields, upper pipes, downpipe,
etc. Refill the Power
>Steering Fluid (I reccomend Redline Synthetic Power
Steering Fluid) and
>you're good to go...
>
>That's
it.
>
>[11. If you're me, get about 30 feet and run out of Power
Steering Fluid.
Go
>back into the garage and spend 2 hours removing
stuff to discover that
while
>battling the upper power steering
hardline (see step 8) the lower one came
>loose. Reattach the hardlines,
again, bolt everything back in, again,
refill
>the power steering
system, again, and take off, again, 4 hours later... for
>those who are
wondering, that was why I was a bit late to the Quickening
>last
year.]
>
> -Ed
>For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFor
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 01:04:06 -0500
From: "Bob Rand" <
rtr@vnet.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: rear
turbo precat removal
The easy method to gut the rear precat is to do it
while still attached to
the car. But; wear face protection, in fact
body protection:), and cover
mouth and nose with proper filter mask.
Drill the material out and your
done. It was a nasty job, but
someone had to do it. Tried to talk my 16
yr old son into it.
But; he's a smart kid!
Bob
- -----Original Message-----
From: Fein,
Edward <
fein@strategy.com>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
<
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date:
Saturday, February 27, 1999 11:14 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: rear turbo precat
removal
>
>Not sure if anyone's answered this yet (I'm just
catching up on mail) but
>I'll give my 2 cents anyways.
>
>I
pulled my rear pre-cat last year to gut it, and loan to TJ Tuck as
a
blank
>to see if he could get replacements fabricated. Turns out the
thing is WAY
>to complicated to fabricate a replacement for, unless you do
it right on
the
>car and use like 17 hours labor... The rear O2 housing
and precat are the
>same unit, and between the odd-shaped connection to
the turbo and all the
>heat shield brackets, the thing's pretty
complicated.
>
>However, for those interested in removing the thing,
here's the
>instructions. And yes, it is a major pain in many body
parts...
>
>1. Pull the upper intercooler pipe from the rear turbo,
and move whatever
>hoses and wires you need to in order to get to the rear
turbo.
>
>2. Remove the downpipe from under the
car.
>
>3. Remove the heat shields from around the rear turbo. Note
that there is a
>"bolt from hell" on the back of the rear heat shield next
to the
firewall...
>this is easiest to get out from below with a long
12mm crescent wrench,
even
>though you won't be able to get your hand
on the bolt from below. (Putting
>it back in has to be done from above by
feel alone... I only dropped it
once
>myself...)
>
>4.
Unbolt the rear pre-cat. That's four bolts from the hot side of
the
>turbo, and one bolt from the bottom.
>
>5. Ok, now the
damn thing won't actually fit out of the car. Locate the two
>power
steering hardlines which are blocking the heat shielding on the
>pre-cat
from moving upwards out of the car. Unbolt both these
hardlines
(oh,
>and drain the power steering
system...)
>
>6. Wrestle the pre-cat out the top of the engine bay.
It takes a while, and
>you have to figure out just the right angle, but it
can be done.
>
>7. Gut the pre-cat, and knock the now-uneccesary
heat shielding off so that
>the damn thing will fit back in the
car.
>
>7a. If you're me, take the pipe to a welding shop to patch
the holes that
>resulted when the welds broke, since the heat shields were
welded to the
>welds in the pipe...
>
>8. With the heat
shields off the pre-cat, it will fit back in past the
power
>steering
hardlines, so bolt the hardlines back in place. Note that to get
>the
upper hardline to the correct angle for attachment, you'll need to
>unbolt
the hardline from the crossmember behind the driver's side
wheel.
(It
>only took me about four hours to figure that one
out.)
>
>9. Put the pipe back in the same way you got it out. Don't
drop the nuts
>from the turbo housing, or you could be in for a long
search...
>
>10. Replace the heat shields, upper pipes, downpipe,
etc. Refill the Power
>Steering Fluid (I reccomend Redline Synthetic Power
Steering Fluid) and
>you're good to go...
>
>That's
it.
>
>[11. If you're me, get about 30 feet and run out of Power
Steering Fluid.
Go
>back into the garage and spend 2 hours removing
stuff to discover that
while
>battling the upper power steering
hardline (see step 8) the lower one came
>loose. Reattach the hardlines,
again, bolt everything back in, again,
refill
>the power steering
system, again, and take off, again, 4 hours later... for
>those who are
wondering, that was why I was a bit late to the Quickening
>last
year.]
>
> -Ed
>For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:46:05 -0600
From: "Brad Bedell" <
bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: "Asymetrical Turbocharging"?
You answered your own
question.
The best tuned engines are perfectly balanced. Not only in
weight but in air
flow.
I would have to say that the SAAB engineers are
doing something very
advanced, or they simply just don't care about ultimate
performance.
> Brad
Member of ESSC since 1999>
> Check out
my home page:
http://lonestar.texas.net/~bbedell>
E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com
ICQ# 3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com[
mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]
On Behalf Of Fein, Edward
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 1999 10:14 PM
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.comSubject:
Team3S: "Asymetrical Turbocharging"?
Just picked up some info from a
Saab dealership.
The latest Saab 9-5 comes with an "asymetrically
turbocharged" 3.0 liter V6.
Turns out that this means that a turbo is hooked
up to the front bank of
cyliders (just like our front turbos), but there's no
rear turbo. The rear
bank flows directly to the downpipe, looks like.
Interesting thing about
this setup - since it's a light-pressure turbo on
only one of the two banks,
they don't use a wastegate at all.
Now,
this got me thinking (always a dangerous activity)... Obviously
this
particular setup would suck for spoolup purposes, but maybe a similar
idea
could be beneficial for our cars.
Ok:
1. Our rear exhaust
manifold is a good design, and a 15G is pretty much all
that will fit back
there between the engine and the firewall.
2. The front exhaust manifold
sucks, but there's more room for a bigger
turbo.
So why couldn't we
just get a good front manifold and mount a 16G or bigger
turbo up front?
Spool-up would be faster with one small turbo in the back
blowing, then the
big one would kick in for more boost.
Something like this was discussed
about a year ago, and there were concerns
about varying pressures between the
two banks of cylinders. If this is a
concern then how can Saab get away with
having a turbo one one bank and
nothing at all on the other? That would be a
far more extreme pressure
difference... Maybe they probably use different
exhaust camshafts?
Also, I guess you'd need the wastegate to open on the
smaller turbo earlier
than the larger one, to avoid overspooling it, so
tuning would be a b*tch.
Anyways, it's an idea. Probably not a very good
one.
But I still think the Saab design is pretty interesting, especially
since
they don't use a wastegate at all... I think they use electronic
throttle
control to modulate boost indirectly by closing the
throttle.
-Ed
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFor
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:46:04 -0600
From: "Brad Bedell" <
bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rear Suspension Camber
I had to slot and weld the rear upper
control arm mounting point. About
1/8" was enough to make up for the 1
degree that I needed. I have heard of
others slotting the upper strut
mount area, I doubt this will be as
efficient since the strut doesn't' have
any control of where the upper
control arm is.
A small point, when
doing an alignment on these cars: you have to
disconnect the
drive shaft to get an accurate reading on the alignment heads
(when
compensating them)
A lot of shops don't' know this, or chose to ignore them.
Also to adjust toe
on the rear, you have to disconnect the tie rod
ends.
If the alignment does not bill at least 3 hours, I would not have
the shop
do it. I know this is a bad way to gauge a "good job" but to do the
job
correct, it will take at least 3 hours.
Yes, I paid 215.00 for an
alignment. It is the best damn alignment I have
ever had from any
alignment shop. (not effort justification either, the car
actually
tracks properly at speeds over 150mph)
> Brad
Member of ESSC since
1999>
> Check out my home page:
http://lonestar.texas.net/~bbedell>
E-Mail:
bbedell@austin.rr.com
ICQ# 3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com[
mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]
On Behalf Of PHorschel
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 1999 10:48 PM
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.comSubject:
Team3S: Rear Suspension Camber
Hello all,
I have a problem with
the camber in the rear wheels. My rear tires don't
seem to last beyond
15K miles without severe wear to the inside edge. I was
planning on
lowering my car but this is stopping me. If you look at the
back of the
car the wheels look like this: / \
I have been to a few different
alignment shops and they say the car is
within specs. I don't have a
sheet handy but I think they said the car(93
VR4) calls for this amount of
camber and my adjustment is maxed out so I
can't have any less. Does
anyone have this type of problem? I heard it was
common on the 91-93
models. Does anyone know if there is there is any
difference in the
rear suspension of the twin turbo models from 91-93 to
94-up? Someone
also told me I cold get my upper control arm lengthened.
Have any of you guys
had this done to your cars? I don't really want to go
this route but I
will do it if it is necessary. If the 94-up had a longer
upper arm that
would be a better way. Did those of you with lowered cars
have to
modify your suspension arms or was there enough in the adjustment
to
compensate? How much camber do you guys run out back? Any help
would be
greatly appreciated.
- -Paul Horschel-
- --Copper 93
3000GT Twin Turbo--
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFor
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 01:44:43 EST
From:
Htkclk@aol.comSubject: Re: Team3S: Rear
Suspension Camber
<< I have been to a few different alignment shops
and they say the car is
within specs. >>
I had a similar
problem, but not as severe on a '92 TT. After 60,000 miles
the left
rear camber could not be brought into spec. The shop (non-dealer)
said
I needed a new cam, since there was too much slop in the old
("worn")
cam. The dealership disputed that when they checked the car.
(The cam bolts
were covered under extended warranty by Dodge, but supposedly
only 1/4th of
the alignment cost, since one wheel was only adjusted --
unbelievable! To
their credit, my dealership replaced the cam and seems
to have eaten the
alignment cost). When the cam was replaced, it just
made it back into spec.
I am uneasy about the limited adjustment range.
A cam seems to be a weak,
inexact way to set alignment.
Henry
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:12:54 -0800
From: Roger Gerl <
robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Car Report :-((
> You can go up to 18 psi without much of a
problem.
YES, the ONLY PROBLEM will be the huge cost and headache of the
rebuild !
> On my stock turbos I ran 20psi at the track.
This
are about 9 seconds under full 20psi. How many runs have you done already
?
What pistons, injectors, etc ?
> You will start to notice timing
retard and fuel cut at these levels.
No, he'll probably not notice the
retard but the cut for sure. But it can be too
late then and another proud
owner goes in for a rebuild !
> Stick with the 15psi and when you see
that C5 vette coming up just
> goose it up to 18psi :)
Brian,
please forgive me my criticism, but I'd not give anyone such an advice
that
can lead in a huge engine damage, or even that he will be hurt due to
a
stupid road race !
FACT is, our dyno sessions prove that our cars
run out of gas after 14.2psi and
the timing got retarded. This because the
injectors are maxed out over 90% and
more and this is it. Also the pump will
not give you more then. If your car runs
much better with the same setup we a
ll have than you're a lucky guy and you can
go on with the 20psi. I doubt
that all others can do this.
So Irving, you can go two ways : Leave the
controller setting where it is. The
boost you see is peak up to 15lbs and
this is probably not sustained boost.
Therefore your still in the dark-green
area and not in the red one. The other
way is the one where you got the
little devil on your shoulder (I know him very
well) that says "crank da
boost up, do it, common, do it !". And the car runs
like hell then .... yeah
directly to hell.
Check out my rebuild-page and also the dyno pages, and
if you still want to
follow Darth Vader... we'll see us in the rebuild
club.
Take care guys,
Roger, Switzerland
(currently in
CA)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:24:57 -0800
From: Roger Gerl <
robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: JET-HOT anyone?
> I don't necessarily agree with all the mods,
but I can live with them.
I'm sure a lot of us would also be able to live
with them LOL :)
> Enough about the car, let's cut to the chase.
I was wondering if anyone
> has used JET-HOT coating on the exhaust and /
or intercooler pipes.
Some of my Camaro buddies did this to the headers
but almost every time to
prevent rust and keep that nice look and shine. I
was told that the Jet-Hot
coating helps to keep the heat in the tubing and
not let it go out through the
tubing material. It doesn't help a lot when it
becomes to getting heat from the
ambient.
> Any input on the use of
JET-HOT or Thermal wrap on intercooler pipes or
> exhaust manifolds would
be appreciated.
To make it short, coating the rear manifold and the front
headers would
definitely help to reduce the underhood temperature. Coating
the IC piping will
probably not help as the real job must be done by the IC
itselfs. It will look
cool but your wallet pretty empty
;-)
Regards,
Roger
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFor
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 27 Feb 1999 23:52:24 -0800
From: Roger Gerl <
robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject:
Team3S: Moderator message (please read) ....
Dear members,
We like
to remaind you NOT to include the WHOLE original message in your post.
It's
clearly written in the list-rules and it's very boring to check if there
is
any hidden coment within the original text. Please always snip it and add
your
comment where it refers to.
Thanks,
Roger for the
moderators
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 09:36:15 +0100
From: Matthews <
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Mods (N/A)
Roger Ludwig Jr wrote:
>
> For off
the line performance, what would the next mod after intake and
> exhaust
on a 3000GT NT? Thanx for your thoughts...
Just out of curiosity, how
much off the line performance was sacrificed
after your intake and exhaust
mods due to the loss in low-end torque
caused by the reduction in back
pressure? Was there a noticable
increase in performance at the high
end, enough to make up for the loss
at the low end under hard acceleration to
red-line? Now that you have
shifted your torque curve higher in the rev
band, did all around
drivability suffer significantly (ie- do you miss the
torque down in the
RPM range where you drive most often)? Did fuel
economy change? How
does the car sound
now?
Thanx...
-Jim
P.S.- Yes, I have a TT, but I was talked
out of doing similar mods on my
other vehicle ('95 N/A Honda 2.2L 16-v SOHC)
and want to validate the
advice.
- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden,
Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de
(64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top
Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb
99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:17:55 EST
From:
Aso8@aol.comSubject: Team3S: Parts 4 sale,
rims, turbos, Bozz scoops too
18" x 8.5 JJ Chrome 6 spoke factory rims
with center cap, set of 4 for along
with
4 Mich Pilot 245/40/ZR18 SXMXX3
over 50% left
Set of 4 above rims & tires $1800.00
2 additional
chrome rims with purchase $300 X-tra or $300 ea. separately
(set 4)17" x
8.5 JJ Stock Alum Alloy 5 spoke directionals along
with Goodyear Eagles
245/45/ZR17 Set of 4 wheels & tires $600.00
(2) TEC 15G turbos
$1500.00
(2) Stock 9B VR4 turbos $250.00
(2) Bozz Speed Hood
scoops. These are painted black and the body work needed
after you buy these
is already done. $400.00 Better then new.
Other available parts from a 91
VR-4
Full interior available (Beige leather)
Front & Rear Active Aero
motor
Air cond unit
Stock CD player
Email direct please
Arty 91
VR-4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:51:39 -0500
From: Irving & Ana Jimenez <
lt1power@crystal.palace.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Car Report :-((
> So Irving, you can go two ways : Leave
the controller setting where it is. The
> boost you see is peak up to
15lbs and this is probably not sustained boost.
> Therefore your still in
the dark-green area and not in the red one. The other
> way is the one
where you got the little devil on your shoulder (I know him very
> well)
that says "crank da boost up, do it, common, do it !". And the car runs
>
like hell then .... yeah directly to hell.
No thank you, I already went
through this with my last car ( over boosted the LT1
Formula, twice, and went
through 2 rebuilds - left me with 537 RWHP but one HELL OF A
HOLE in my
pockets :o(
> Check out my rebuild-page and also the dyno pages, and
if you still want to
> follow Darth Vader... we'll see us in the rebuild
club.
I'll be on the side of the Force with 0.95 bar :o)
Irving
Jimenez
96 VR4 . . . and very happy right now
:oD
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:30:45 -0600
From: "Brent & Tara Maksymiw" <
brent.tara@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject:
Team3S: HKS EVCIV and EVCIII Questions
Hi,
I would
like to hear from people using the HKS EVCIV and EVCIII
boost
controllers. Specifically, how well these controllers are able to
minimize
boost spikes after their learn cycle.
I am
looking at purchasing an EVCIV, EVCIII, or Blitz DSBC for my '93
RT/TT.
With the Blitz, I know that if I am getting too much boost spiking,
I can
turn down the gain. With the EVCIII and EVCIV, it appears you have
to
rely solely on the boost controllers ability to learn your boost curve
(ie
the boost controller does all of its gain settings itself, and if it
is
overboosting, the only option you have to reduce the overboosting is to
try
and do a re-learn).
Can the EVC IV and EVCIII
learn the boost curves of a TT vehicle well
enough to keep boost spikes under
.0689bar with a .97bar setting (under 1psi
of spiking with a 14psi
setting)?
Thanks,
Brent Maksymiw
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFor
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:35:59 -0600
From: "Brent & Tara Maksymiw" <
brent.tara@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject:
Team3S: Blow Off Valves
A few questions on BOV's:
Is the Blitz
SSBOV a sequential BOV?
How many people still run the factory BOV in
parallel with their aftermarket
BOV's?
What is the setup procedure for
an aftermarket BOV (i.e. how do you
determine where to set the spring preload
at, basically the pressure at
which the BOV will
open)?
Thanks,
Brent Maksymiw
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFor
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:00:26 EST
From:
Aso8@aol.comSubject: Re: Team3S: HKS EVCIV
and EVCIII Questions
I'm using the HKS EVCIV and I'm happy with it. Once
it learned the fuel curve
it holds boost right on the money. You can dial in
your boost setting and feel
confident it won't overboost. Initially, without
letting it "learn" It was
overboosting. Once I set the learn, it worked
properly.
Arty 91 VR-4
<< Subj: Team3S: HKS EVCIV and EVCIII
Questions
Date: 2/28/99 12:31:01 PM Eastern Standard
Time
From:
brent.tara@sk.sympatico.ca (Brent
& Tara Maksymiw)
Sender:
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com Reply-to:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com Hi,
I would like to hear from people using the HKS EVCIV and EVCIII
boost
controllers. Specifically, how well these controllers are
able to minimize
boost spikes after their learn cycle.
>>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:11:25 EST
From:
Aso8@aol.comSubject: Team3S: Manifold changes
between 91 & 92?
Hi guys,
Chien over at Nexus said that the
manifolds were changed on the 92 model Vs.
the 91 model and that the IMP
manifolds for the 92 won't fit the 91 Vr4 car.
Can someone explain these
manifold changes? I thought 91 & 92 engines were
identical?
Arty 91
VR-4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:44:49 -0700
From: "james berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Manifold changes between 91 & 92?
>Chien over at Nexus said that
the manifolds were changed on the 92 model
Vs.
>the 91 model and that
the IMP manifolds for the 92 won't fit the 91 Vr4
car.
>Can someone
explain these manifold changes?
I have an additional manifold question
! While laying under my 93 TT
stealth Trying unsuccessfully
[ a long
and sordid story ] to change my transaxle fluid, I noticed the
front exhaust
manifold appears
to be a mandrel bent header while the rear was a cast
manifold. I this the
stock configuration?
Jim
Berry
------93 "arrest me red" Stealth TT
-----
SSBC @ 1.0 BAR, K&N FIPK, Magnecore wire, NGK @
.034
G--Tech 0 --60 4.9 sec. 1/4 13.3
@
110
[ suspension mods next ]
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:59:01 -0700
From: "james berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Team3S:
boost spikes ??
I hear [ read ] a lot of statements about boost spikes.
e.g. Roger said that
during his dyno runs with boost set at 1 BAR he saw
spikes of 1.34 BAR. Are
these spikes only a result of aftermarket boost
controllers or do they occur
with the stock setup. What is the cause?? Do
they occur during rapid
throttle transitions?? Are they visible an a
mechanical boost gage or are
the transitions too fast for a mechanical
gage??
Jim Berry 93 stealth TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:54:17 -0500
From: "Meyer" <
meyer2@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
HKS EVCIV and EVCIII Questions
Brent,
We are using the EVC IV with
excellent accuracy and no spikes. In response
to your BOV question we
are using the HKS which comes preset from the
factory and works great. I
would also like to make the group aware that
Apex~i sells a BOV with a 3S kit
for $50 less than HKS and Blitz but I don't
know anyone who has tried it. If
any one wants to we have them for $250.
Frank
www.AcceleratedAccessories.com-
-----Original Message-----
From: Brent & Tara Maksymiw <
brent.tara@sk.sympatico.ca>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
<
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date:
Sunday, February 28, 1999 12:30 PM
Subject: Team3S: HKS EVCIV and EVCIII
Questions
>Hi,
> I would like to hear from
people using the HKS EVCIV and EVCIII boost
>controllers.
Specifically, how well these controllers are able to minimize
>boost
spikes after their learn cycle.
>
> I am looking
at purchasing an EVCIV, EVCIII, or Blitz DSBC for my '93
>RT/TT.
With the Blitz, I know that if I am getting too much boost spiking,
>I can
turn down the gain. With the EVCIII and EVCIV, it appears you
have
to
>rely solely on the boost controllers ability to learn your
boost curve (ie
>the boost controller does all of its gain settings
itself, and if it is
>overboosting, the only option you have to reduce the
overboosting is to try
>and do a
re-learn).
>
> Can the EVC IV and EVCIII learn the
boost curves of a TT vehicle well
>enough to keep boost spikes under
.0689bar with a .97bar setting (under
1psi
>of spiking with a 14psi
setting)?
>
>Thanks,
>Brent Maksymiw
>
>For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm>
>For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:13:26 -0800
From: Roger Gerl <
robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: HKS EVCIV and EVCIII Questions
Arty,
> Once it learned
the fuel curve it holds boost right on the money.
Interesting, can you
give us a little bit more information on what it exactly
does when it
"learns" the fuel curve ? Does the HKS also sniff the rpm and IDC
?
Thanks,
Roger
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 11:20:20 -0800
From: Roger Gerl <
robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Manifold changes between 91 & 92?
> Chien over at Nexus
said that the manifolds were changed on the 92 model Vs.
> the 91 model
and that the IMP manifolds for the 92 won't fit the 91 Vr4 car.
> Can
someone explain these manifold changes? I thought 91 & 92 engines
were
> identical?
Yes, there where changes. But my information only
says that the style of the
intake runners changed. This is somewhat visible
as the intake part look like it
has groves in the runners. I've only seen
this on pictures but not in real.
Unfortunately, my manual only starts at
1993 and I cannot recheck this.
Regards,
Roger
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:34:04 -0800
From: Roger Gerl <
robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Manifold changes between 91 & 92?
> front exhaust manifold
appears to be a mandrel bent header while the rear was
> a cast manifold.
I this the stock configuration?
Yes !
Regards,
Roger
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:35:13 EST
From:
Aso8@aol.comSubject: Re: Team3S: HKS EVCIV
and EVCIII Questions
Ok. you got me. You know that the fuel curve leaves
a musky scent thats only
apparent to the EVCIV and Vr-4 owners on
crack.
Arty
<< ubj: Re: Team3S: HKS EVCIV and EVCIII
Questions
Date: 2/28/99 4:27:05 PM Eastern Standard Time
From:
robby@swissonline.ch (Roger
Gerl)
Sender:
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com Reply-to:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com Arty,
>
Once it learned the fuel curve it holds boost right on the
money.
Interesting, can you give us a little bit more
information on what it exactly
does when it "learns" the fuel curve ?
Does the HKS also sniff the rpm and
IDC
?
Thanks,
Roger
>>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:06:46 -0800
From: "Errin D. Humphrey" <
errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Anyone knoe the Cd of our cars?
Trevor James
wrote:
> Anyone know off hand what the Coefficient of Drag is for our
cars?
If I remember correctly C is about 0.33, but I can't find the
source
for this info. And finding an accurate A for our cars is
probably near
impossible, to say nothing of trying to find Re . .
.
Also, I'm sure C varies depending on whether it is a 91-96,
97-98,
or a 99, and it obviously varies depending on whether or not
the
active aero is active (on 91-96).
- --Errin Humphrey
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:08:24 -0800
From: "Errin D. Humphrey" <
errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Was this one of you guys?
Robyn wrote:
> I pulled
out onto Rt. 50 West...and right behind me was a black 94+ Stealth
> Twin
Turbo. It had the HKS logo on the hood, OBVIOUS exhaust, [snip]
> This
was halfway between Ocean City, Maryland, and Salisbury, Maryland,
> about
noon today...wasn't one of you guys was it?
Sounds like Mike Mahaffey,
but are you sure it wasn't dark green?
Did you see it at night?
-
--Errin Humphrey
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 17:08:01 -0500
From: "Stealth" <
cirrus@shore.intercom.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Was this one of you guys?
>
>Sounds like Mike
Mahaffey, but are you sure it wasn't dark green?
>Did you see it at
night?
No, it was around noon. I know Mike's car, and it wasn't that
one. There
were two Asian guys in it. Oh boy was I ever sorry I didn't have
mine...oh
well.
Robyn
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:26:24 -0800
From: Roger Gerl <
robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: boost spikes ??
> I hear [ read ] a lot of statements about
boost spikes. e.g. Roger said that
> during his dyno runs with boost set
at 1 BAR he saw spikes of 1.34 BAR.
No, on the dyno you can't see the
spikes very well. The most heavy spikes appear
when :
1. Hard
accelerating in low gears
2. accelerating with already spooled up
turbos
Please note, that only the electronic boost controllers are able
to keep the
wastegates closed for longer than other methods of tweaking them.
This allows
the system to increase boost without opening the WG too early to
provide the
best possible acceleration. As the stock WG actuators start to
move the lever
around 4.5psi there is some room to change this. Therefore
start opening the WG
at 10psi but then more quick and alternating will give
you a better response in
lower range.
Now you can imagine that the
higher this step-in boost level is set to the more
harder the car acts to the
WG and the more the danger of overboost. And the
later happens due to the
systems lag that is caused by :
Reading boost - opening the solenoids -
reading boost - alternating frequency of
solenoids. In this period the system
can overboost due to this reaction time.
> Are these spikes only a
result of aftermarket boost controllers or do they
> occur with the stock
setup.
Yes, the spikes also occur on the stock system due to the response
time of the
actuators and the fact that the stock system already has a
solenoid valve built
in. But of course, the spikes are much lower (around 0.6
bars)
> Do they occur during rapid throttle transitions??
Yes,
exactly. Drive the car in third under a good load, keep the boost
around
0.5bars with leveling the gas and then floor it immediately. This will
generate
a very quick boost rise and therefore a higher spike.
>
Are they visible an a mechanical boost gage or are the transitions too
fast
> for a mechanical gage??
They are better visible on a
mechanic boost gauge than on a digital one. The
digital ones are using
somewhat like a scansystem that reads the level n-times
per second. Now the
faster the boost rises the bigger is the chance that this
situation cannot be
seen by the scanner. This is why the Blitz DSBC sometimes
shows a peak of
1.02bars but the Dual Timer 1.04bars. This because the measuring
window is
timed different ! Therefore the real high boost spike could be even
higher
than shown. This is still the problem I do have on my diag-tool as
I'm
currently only able to read boost 10 times per second. This is probably
too less
for our cars.
The mechanical meters (even the Blitz I do
have) act very quick but it is hard
to determine on what level it has peaked
to. That's why a electrical peak hold
device (analogue) or a fast reading
digital device would be the best choice.
Finally, a system that shows no
boost spikes starts to open the wastegates early
to make sure a smooth
operation. This is not the maximum than can be achieved of
the system and
that's why the controllers can be adjusted for this purpose (e.g.
the Blitz
or the Apexi)
Hope this helps,
Roger
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:28:11 -0800
From: Roger Gerl <
robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Anyone knoe the Cd of our cars?
> Also, I'm sure C varies
depending on whether it is a 91-96, 97-98,
> or a 99, and it obviously
varies depending on whether or not the
> active aero is active (on
91-96).
I was told by Mitsu that the Active Aero does not affect the C
when activated at
80km/h ?!
Later,
Roger
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:08:33 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Anyone knoe the Cd of our cars?
I seem to recall a figure of 0.29 but I
don't know for sure, it may have
been 0.32.
I don't see how the active
aero would possibly NOT affect the CD and in a
negative fashion. There
is definitely more drag with the active aero
engaged as Bob Fontanna can
attest with hard numbers. I think he claimed a
2-3 mph difference
slower MPH in the 1320' with AE engaged.
It's like any aerodynamic
system. More downforce typically means more drag
and the AE was
designed to increase downforce.
Regards,
Barry
>
-----Original Message-----
>
> > Also, I'm sure C varies
depending on whether it is a 91-96, 97-98,
> > or a 99, and it
obviously varies depending on whether or not the
> > active aero is
active (on 91-96).
>
> I was told by Mitsu that the Active Aero does
not affect the C
> when activated at
> 80km/h ?!
>
>
Later,
> Roger
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 18:27:27 -0500
From: Michael Booker <
mrbook@gate.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Mods (N/A)
> Just out of curiosity, how much off the line performance
was sacrificed
> after your intake and exhaust mods due to the loss in
low-end torque
> caused by the reduction in back pressure? Was there
a noticable
> increase in performance at the high end, enough to make up
for the loss
> at the low end under hard acceleration to red-line?
Now that you have
> shifted your torque curve higher in the rev band, did
all around
> drivability suffer significantly (ie- do you miss the torque
down in the
> RPM range where you drive most often)? Did fuel
economy change? How
> does the car sound now?
I have
similar mods on my 93 R/T, (K&N, Custom, mufflerless exhaust)
And i can
definately say that the low end torque has been so decreased
that even with a
powerbreak launch, the tires don't spin at all, but
holding the throttle
open, i get a big, noticable kick in the pants
acceleration boost from 3000
RPM-to the redline. I also get much better
gas mileage and my system, with no
mufflers, is really loud, borderline
illegal, but it sounds good and is
throaty enough so it doesn't sound
like a
lawnmower.
Matt
#311
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is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 18:30:24 -0600
From: xwing <
xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re:
Anyone know Cd of our car?
Roger Gerl wrote:
> > C varies
whether 91-96, 97-98,
> > or 99, whether active aero is active on
91-96.
> told by Mitsu that Active Aero does not affect C when activated
at 80km/h ?
When car came out, one article said the front lip airdam
being down
LOWERED Cd, and the rear spoiler RAISED Cd, but they about balance
out
drag-wise while saving your front spoiler from (most) curbstops
and
providing some front and rear end downforce at speeds (110 lbs
rear
downforce at slightly over 100mph was cited in an initial mag
review;
the Cd was cited at 0.33.)
Jack Tertadian
ps I've been
gone for a week hope no urgent messages...did a quickdump
by topic of over
700messages...
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 20:06:23 EST
From:
Aso8@aol.comSubject: Team3S: HKS Extreme
Performance parts 4 sale
These are not for the faint of heart. All parts
are like new and are the very
best available with a price is no object
upgrade.
.
HKS Twin Intercoolers (sugg retail $1595.00)
$950.00
HKS Hard Pipe Intercooler upgrade pipes (sugg retail $863.00)
$500.00
6 HKS 550cc balanced injectors (sugg retail $1890.00)
$1000.00
Please, Email me if really interested in this type of
quality.
Arty 91 VR-4 No more daily driver.
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 21:02:48 -0600
From: Jeff Crabtree <
wjcrabtree@sprintmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Harmonic Balancer
How much should the parts and or labor cost to
have the Harmonic
balancer replaced. Lou Fusz Mitsubishi is telling me
I need a new one.
Cost: around $400.
Due to my recent dealings
with them, I don't trust them. Help me out
guys.
- --
- -Jeff
Crabtree
'91 Stealth R/T
Turbo(#499)
'93
Wrangler 4.0L
Sport
St. Louis, MO
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 28 Feb 1999 21:44:27 -0600
From: Jeff Crabtree <
wjcrabtree@sprintmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Lou Fusz Mitsu.(follow up)
This is a multi-part message in MIME
format.
- --------------B4E0E9F767E361A6B4B3AB0A
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thanks to those who
supported me through my problems with Lou Fusz. I
now have my car back
in my possession. I am attaching a copy of the
letter that was sent to
the Managers and owners of the dealership. I
am happy with the
condition of the car as it is now, however, I am still
frustrated with what
it took to get the car returned to me in that
condition. I am
withdrawing my request for the boycott of Lou
Fusz
dealerships.
However, I offer a warning to anyone considering
taking their vehicle to
the collision repair center at the Mitsubishi/Buick
dealer in west
county/St. Louis. The effort that it took on my behalf
to get my car
returned to me in acceptable condition was unacceptable.
Additionally,
the attitude towards me when I expressed problems with what
they had
done was generally unacceptable.
If you plan on having them
do any work to your car, stay on top of
them. I'll be taking my
business elsewhere from now on.
- --
- -Jeff
Crabtree
'91 Stealth R/T
Turbo(#499)
'93
Wrangler 4.0L
Sport
St. Louis, MO
-
--------------B4E0E9F767E361A6B4B3AB0A
Content-Type:
application/msword;
name="Fusz.doc"
Content-Transfer-Encoding:
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