--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #72
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest        Tuesday, January 12 1999        Volume 01 : Number 072




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:05:56 -0500
From: "Bob Fontana" <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: A/F questions

Apparently there is, but it's super expensive.  HKS used one to calibrate
the fuel map for the VPC and they told me it was around $40K.  Todd Day of
Club DSM fame had a writeup in the 1/4/99 Talon Digest which really explains
how the typical production 02 sensor works:

[Okay, I've done a bit more digging on O2 sensors.  Not all of this
 will apply to what you've written, so don't consider it a rebuttal.
 I won't address the dual O2 sensor case, as I don't own one of those
 cars.... yet.  In the 2G case, my comments will apply to the primary
 O2 sensor.  A lot of what is below I've gotten from the book
 "Understanding Automotive Electronics" by William Ribbens.  Where I
 mention any exact sounding figures, they refer to "typical" O2
 sensors.  It is not clear from anything I read that all O2 sensors
 have the exact same characteristics (other than switching at 14.7:1)
 or even that non-switching characteristics are controlled between
 batch runs at the factory.

 First, it must be stated:  The O2 sensor on almost every production
 vehicle today would never be any engineer's first choice to measure
 A/F ratio.  Or second choice.  Or third choice.  It would probably
 fall behind the fourth choice - the engineer's nose.

 The first choice would be the O2 sensor known to every dyno tuner as
 the Horiba (they make the most popular one).  It is a true instrument
 that is calibrated and repeatable.

 The O2 sensor included with almost every car is meant to act like a
 switch.  What this means is that the sensor is practically either
 at one voltage or another (say, 0.2V and 0.8V).  There is an extremely
 steep-sloped area in the middle where a large change in voltage means
 a tiny change in A/F ratio.

 Now certainly, this wasn't the car manufacturers' first choice.  Had
 they had it their way, I'm certain that we'd all be running around on
 nice wide-band sensors, and no one would ever know the name Horiba.
 But like most things, the best way was also the most expensive - very
 expensive.  Like 10-20 times more expensive than cheap switch method.

 It is very important to remember that this sensor is really only intended
 to give an on-off, rich-lean indication.  It was never made for exact
 A/F measurements.  In fact, Mitsubishi at no time relies on the O2
 sensor for anything other than a rich-lean indication.  The ECU is not
 looking at the O2 sensor under WOT, making sure that mixture stays
 rich enough, which would make good sense if it were accurate.

 Let's list the various problems that get in the way of accurate A/F
 measurements with O2 sensors.

 1) Hysteresis.  You may have seen graphs of A/F ratio vs O2 sensor
    voltage.  You basically see a nice S-type curve with a steep
    sloped sensor.  Well, that center is really just an average.
    You see, when the O2 sensor goes from lean to rich, it snaps
    almost instantaneously from 0.2V to 0.8V right when the A/F
    ratio crosses 14.7:1.  Basically infinite slope.  However, when
    the O2 sensor goes from rich to lean, it does so more slowly, so
    you can actually see the descent.  That basically means you need
    a separate conversion table or chart when reading off A/F from
    the voltages whether the car was going to or coming from a rich or
    lean condition.

 2) Temperature.  We all know that O2 sensors don't work at all until
    they are warmed up by the exhaust to a nice toasty 300C.  But,
    did you know that the O2 sensor voltage output also drifts with
    temperature, often significantly?  The voltage for 14.0:1 (slightly
    rich) can drift from nearly 1.0V at 350C to 0.8V at 800C.  The
    voltage for 15.5:1 (slightly lean) only drifts from 0.05V to 0.07V
    in the same temperature range.  This is probably the worst problem.

 3) Frequency response.  The speed at which the O2 sensor reacts also
    changes with temperature.  At 350C, it takes 0.2sec to switch from
    full lean to full rich, and vice versa.  At 800C, it takes  0.1sec
    to switch.

 4) Voltage offsets.  The low output voltage of O2 sensors makes minor
    voltage offsets from mismatched grounds into potentially big headaches.

 "But Todd, how can the factory even use such a crappy sensor?"

 Simple.  By using it in switch mode, it avoids all of the above problems.
 Even though the top and bottom voltages drift, the 14.7:1 line is always
 crossed in a predictable place.

 Even minor voltage offsets don't interfere.  Because the slope of the
 lean-to-rich curve is practically infinite, and the return slope is
 almost as steep (0.6V = 1.02lambda and 0.4V = 1.03lamda), voltage offsets
 such as encountered on the DSM really shouldn't present a problem for
 fuel control.

 To get around #3, the ECU changes the switching gains as the RPMs
 and load increase (exhaust gets hotter).

 "But Todd, how can DaveB and others reliably use the O2 sensor at
  the track?"

 By controlling the variables that cause the problems, one can use a
 switching O2 sensor as a crude tuning tool.  Note that I did not say
 "accurate A/F measurement".  I know that DaveB logs every one of his
 runs, tracking everything that changed between his runs, including his
 driving style and the weather.  By looking at these over time, you can
 see how certain things change the A/F ratio.  You could also tell where
 the envelope is by crossing it and rebuilding the engine.

 #4 is easy to kill.  Or, as has been shown, if you simply run WOT all
 the time, you can probably not worry about voltage offsets.

 #3 is a bit more subtle.  You'd notice this if you were datalogging,
 maybe, but if you are just watching a gauge, this probably isn't too
 much of a problem.

 #2 will show up as a drift to the lean side as you go down the track.
 If you've been waiting in line for a launch, your exhaust is going to
 be nice and cool.  As you make your way down the track, the O2 sensor
 is going to be getting hotter all the way down, and depending on how
 rapidly the O2 sensor can absorb that heat, you will see the O2 voltage
 fall as you approach the finish line, even if your A/F ratio really
 isn't changing.

 #1 is a bit unclear when you factor in what will happen to #2 going
 down the track.  I don't know what happens to hysteresis in the face
 of a temperature drift.  I do know if you are sitting in the corner
 region of the curve that it is *possible* to move the A/F ratio as
 much as 4% without seeing a change in output voltage.

 "But Todd, if the O2 sensor is just a switch, how on earth can you possibly
  read A/F ratios in the first place?"

 In the region between where nature plays her cruel joke, where the
 slope goes from nearly infinite to nearly zero, there is a bit of a
 round corner.  On this round corner, you can find slopes much less
 than infinite, and bigger than zero.  It is on this tiny region that
 you can play your balancing game.  This is where the 0.75V to 0.95V
 region of sweetness lies (assuming no offset voltage here).  I have no
 idea what happens to this region at 800C, though.  It probably shrinks.

 "But Todd, what O2 voltage should I run at the track?"

  A safe one.  That's an exercise for the reader...

 -talon mgr]

So there ya have it.  Any more question, ask Todd!

- -Bob

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> [mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of
> wce@bc.sympatico.ca
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 1999 7:52 PM
> To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: Re: Team3S: A/F questions
>
>
> Hey Bob;
>
> Am I reading between the lines right when I note the use of
> "standard 02 sensors"? Is
> there a better sensor available that you'd recomend, and why?
>
> Darc
>
>
>
> Bob Fontana wrote:
>
> > Actually, ECU never really knows what the A/F ratio is.  It
> just knows when
> > the ratio is too rich or too lean.  It decides this based on voltages
> > produced by the 02 sensors.  Unfortunatly, the standard 02
> sensors have too
> > steep of a voltage drop right at the precise A/F ratio where it's most
> > important: 14.7:1.  Voltage levels out on each side of  optimal
> ratio, so
> > the computer is easily able to convert "too lean" to "add a
> splash" and too
> > rich to "hold off on a splash".
> >
> > -Bob
>
>
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:58:33 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: A/F questions

Gee, where have I heard this before ;)

I have been trying to tell people for a long while that O2 sensors in
consumer vehicles are almost useless as a reliable indication of A/F.  They
are ONLY used by the ECU for cross counts to determine a _rough indication_
of mixture, nothing more nothing less.  Furthermore, the cross point can
vary from vehicle to vehicle and sensor to sensor.  Further complicating is
that O2 sensor degrade with use.  Another report from the automotive
engineering society demonstrates that O2 sensors don't even actually MEASURE
oxygen content until above 800 C.  Below that they are _suspected_ of
measuring HC content.

Anyway...all is not lost.  There is something coming down the pike that will
be self calibrating in free atmosphere, be as accurate as the $300-$30K
units currently available, and cost less than $300.  That's all I can say
for now.  I will post more when I have more to post.  ne more thing, it CAN
be used in place of the factory sensor so you'll have what the ECU needs as
well as DEAD ACCURATE AFR.  It will use the Honda UEGO as seen in production
Acura models for the last few years (about $150 retail) plus some simple
compensating electronics.

As to optimal fuel ratio, 14.7:1 is stoichiometric.  That is, all fuel
oxidizes to consume all oxygen.  Although it sounds good that is not where
optimal power lives.  During closed loop cruise mode where the O2 sensor is
used as a feedback sensor to the ECU to determine mixture and fuel trims,
the ECU _does_ shoot for roughly 14.7:1.  This is why it is not unusual to
see some very high EGTs from bone stock cars (2000F is not unusual) simply
puttering along on the highway at a fixed rate of knots.  The operation of a
catalytic converter also requires high EGTs which cycle from hot to very
hot.

_Most_ gasoline internal combustion engines put out maximum power around
12:1 +/- .5.  This figure can vary widely and can really only be accurately
derived from dyno sessions.  You can make some pretty good guesses once you
have demonstrated to yourself that your car is making as much HP as you can
muster and by measuring precisely the amount of fuel consumed across
identical full HP output runs.  The BSFC for ours cars is typically in the
.55-.60 pounds/hour range at maximum HP.  That can gve you a rough idea of
AFR and HP etc.  A calibrated airmeter would be another fine tuning aide in
conjunction with the above.

The long and short of it, tuning solely by O2 voltages and targetting O2
voltages to match someone else's which happen to work is flirting with
disaster.  Just don't do it.  Try going into a populated IRC chat room
sometime and spewing that though... *grin*


Regards,

Barry

> -----Original Message-----
> Actually, ECU never really knows what the A/F ratio is.  It just
> knows when
> the ratio is too rich or too lean.  It decides this based on voltages
> produced by the 02 sensors.  Unfortunatly, the standard 02
> sensors have too
> steep of a voltage drop right at the precise A/F ratio where it's most
> important: 14.7:1.  Voltage levels out on each side of  optimal ratio, so
> the computer is easily able to convert "too lean" to "add a
> splash" and too
> rich to "hold off on a splash".
>
> -Bob
>
> > Regarding A/F ratios, is this something the engine computer
> *measures* or
> > *calculates*?  Is there an "A/F Ratio Probe" that sits around detecting
> > the blend, or does the computer take input from the air flow sensor and
> > injectors/pump and calculate the ratio?  Thanks.

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:11:34 -0800
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Team3S: A/F questions

Bob;

That's a small thesis you posted... food for thought for sure...but from it, it looks
like we are stuck with the cheap fix ( factory probes) until Barry spill's the beans on
what's coming down the pipe. It would a hell of a good deal, if it were a decent price
for a change. Something that everyone could afford and therefore want, could realize a
lot more in the long run, than a few sales to the exclusive few. BTW thanks for wearing
out your fingers with this information...I've already got it stored.

Best

Darc



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:29:35 -0500
From: "Bob Fontana" <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: A/F questions

Hey Darc,

I just used copy/paste from the talon digest.  No big deal.  Todd Day is the
guru of both DSM and 3S ECU.  He has reverse engineered all of the ECU
firmware and has a deep, first-hand understanding of what's going on.

- -Bob

> That's a small thesis you posted...<snip> BTW thanks for wearing
> out your fingers with this information...I've already got it stored.

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:41:27 +0100
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject: Re: Team3S: VR4 Starter Replacement

Ken Middaugh wrote:
>
> Has anyone ever replaced their 1st gen VR4 starter?  What are the steps
> involved.  I tried to do mine Saturday, but the starter is surrounded by
> some kind of shield that I couldn't figure out how to easily remove.
> The only mention of starter removal and installation in the manual is in
> the transaxel removal and installation section.  Is there an easier way?
>
> Thanks,
> Ken

Yeah, Ken, the starter is manufacturered by Getrag and their agreement
with Chrysler was that it be welded to the frame, necessitating shipment
of the entire vehicle to Germany for replacement.  You should have your
car back within 8-12 months.  Good luck!  (:-) * .5)

-Jim
- --
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews

*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 70/84% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Bosch Winged Wipers
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, TS (so far): 166mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:22:14 -0500
From: "Bob Fontana" <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: VR4 Starter Replacement

The starter is bolted into the tranny.  It should come right off.  There IS
a bracket that appears to be in its way, but once you remove the two 10x1.5
bolts, the starter drops straight down.

- -Bob

> > Has anyone ever replaced their 1st gen VR4 starter?  What are the steps
> > involved.  I tried to do mine Saturday, but the starter is surrounded by
> > some kind of shield that I couldn't figure out how to easily remove.
> > The only mention of starter removal and installation in the manual is in
> > the transaxel removal and installation section.  Is there an easier way?

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:37:03 +0100
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mikael_=C5kesson?=" <vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: RE: Team3S: VR4 Starter Replacement

Hmmm maybe mine and Bob's cars doesn't look exactly the same but I had to remove the front pre CAT to be able to get the starter down.

It was easy to do and I did it ~in less than 1 houer. No special tools needed.

Good luck,

/Mikael


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:40:17 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: VR4 Starter Replacement

> Yeah, Ken, the starter is manufacturered by Getrag and their agreement
> with Chrysler was that it be welded to the frame, necessitating shipment
> of the entire vehicle to Germany for replacement.  You should have your
> car back within 8-12 months.  Good luck!  (:-) * .5)

Ahem, a difference between the Stealth and 3000GT ??? Mine is bolted on and
should come without much force.

Regards, Roger

- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:16:58 -0500
From: Michael Booker <mrbook@gate.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: need wheel

Palamara, Peter wrote:
>
> I was curious if any one knows of or a place for used wheels??? The last
> snow storm here in Colorado made my car go straight instead of turning
> and I hit a curb hard enough that the wheel cannot be repaired. I'm
> trying to find a chrome vr-4 wheel for model year 1992 in excellent
> condition. Thanx
>
> Pete Palamara
> 1992 3000 VR-4
> 303-689-4733
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
Try 1-800-usedrim. I believe they are the ones for used rims. or i think
there is also 1-800-fixarim to repair bent rims, but it may not be
repairable if it is bent badly.

Matt
#311
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:25:40 -0500
From: Michael Booker <mrbook@gate.net>
Subject: Team3S: Speedometer cable attachment point?

I just got my 93 R/T back after having the tranny replaced but my
speedometer doesn't work. My tach, gas gauge and all other instruments
work. Is there a single cable or attachment that controls the speedo
that they could have forgot to plug in? Any help is greatly appreciated.

Matt
3/Si #311
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:18:08 -0500
From: "Bob Rand" <rtr@vnet.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Speedometer cable attachment point?

Mike,  The cable attaches to the top of the tranny.  There is also a square
piece of steel that fits into the connection. This is what spins the cable.
I would imagine that one of 3 things is your problem.

1.  They didnt reconnect the speedo cable
2.   The square steel piece is not seated in both the tranny and cable
3.  They lost the steel piece and therefore the cable cant spin

Bob
93 Stealth TT
- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Booker <mrbook@gate.net>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 12:09 PM
Subject: Team3S: Speedometer cable attachment point?


>I just got my 93 R/T back after having the tranny replaced but my
>speedometer doesn't work. My tach, gas gauge and all other instruments
>work. Is there a single cable or attachment that controls the speedo
>that they could have forgot to plug in? Any help is greatly appreciated.
>
>Matt
>3/Si #311
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:23:02 -0600
From: Wayne <wala@hypertech-inc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: need wheel

You can also try this place, although if i remember correct, they are kinda
expensive.
aaarims.com



At 12:16 PM 1/12/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Palamara, Peter wrote:
>>
>> I was curious if any one knows of or a place for used wheels??? The last
>> snow storm here in Colorado made my car go straight instead of turning
>> and I hit a curb hard enough that the wheel cannot be repaired. I'm
>> trying to find a chrome vr-4 wheel for model year 1992 in excellent
>> condition. Thanx
>>
>> Pete Palamara
>> 1992 3000 VR-4
>> 303-689-4733
>>
>> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>Try 1-800-usedrim. I believe they are the ones for used rims. or i think
>there is also 1-800-fixarim to repair bent rims, but it may not be
>repairable if it is bent badly.
>
>Matt
>#311
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:26:59 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Speedometer cable attachment point?

Bob's description is accurate for mechanical speedometers.  The
speedometer on our cars (at least my '91 VR4) is electrical.  There is
an electrical connector to the speedometer gear assembly on the
transmission located between the engine and the firewall.  The connector
most likely wasn't connected or came off.  You can check this fairly
quickly by removing the battery and windshield washer bottle.  This will
give you access to the speedometer gear assembly.  Check that the
connector is securely fastened.

Good luck,
Ken

>
> Mike,  The cable attaches to the top of the tranny.  There is also a square
> piece of steel that fits into the connection. This is what spins the cable.
> I would imagine that one of 3 things is your problem.
>
> 1.  They didnt reconnect the speedo cable
> 2.   The square steel piece is not seated in both the tranny and cable
> 3.  They lost the steel piece and therefore the cable cant spin
>
> Bob
> 93 Stealth TT
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Booker <mrbook@gate.net>
> To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
> Date: Tuesday, January 12, 1999 12:09 PM
> Subject: Team3S: Speedometer cable attachment point?
>
> >I just got my 93 R/T back after having the tranny replaced but my
> >speedometer doesn't work. My tach, gas gauge and all other instruments
> >work. Is there a single cable or attachment that controls the speedo
> >that they could have forgot to plug in? Any help is greatly appreciated.
> >
> >Matt
> >3/Si #311
> >For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
> >
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

- --

Ken Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:02:35 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: VR4 Starter Replacement

Thanks for the replies folks, I especially liked Jim's :) lol.  However,
I still need help.

Anyway, my car is a '91 VR4 and there seems to be 3 things in the way of
simply removing the starter.  First, on the back side there is a very
thick bracket and no doubt really cumbersome to remove (this really
shouldn't be a problem if I can remove items 2 & 3).  Second is the
front precat.  Third is the (heat??) shield that wraps to the bottom of
the starter above the precat.  This shield will prevent the starter from
dropping straight down (will it drop out sideways?).  Also the shield is
not part of the precat and seems to be anchored elsewhere, hence my
problem I think.  It looks like the starter would drop right out if I
remove the front precat and that shield.  Precat removal looks easy
enough, but I'm not sure about that shield.  It sounds like Bob & Mikael
don't even have this shield.  It didn't look like the starter would
clear the shield even if the precat were removed though.  Anyone have
other thoughts?

Thanks again,
Ken
- --

Ken Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:44:30 -0800 (PST)
From: George Kuo <amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: need wheel

I have a set of '92 3000GT VR4 chrome wheels.. with worn Yokohama
autocross tires.. $700 for the set.. Im in Ca.

George




- ---Wayne <wala@hypertech-inc.com> wrote:
>
> You can also try this place, although if i remember correct, they
are kinda
> expensive.
> aaarims.com
>
>
>
> At 12:16 PM 1/12/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >Palamara, Peter wrote:
> >>
> >> I was curious if any one knows of or a place for used wheels???
The last
> >> snow storm here in Colorado made my car go straight instead of
turning
> >> and I hit a curb hard enough that the wheel cannot be repaired. I'm
> >> trying to find a chrome vr-4 wheel for model year 1992 in excellent
> >> condition. Thanx
> >>
> >> Pete Palamara
> >> 1992 3000 VR-4
> >> 303-689-4733
> >>
> >> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> >http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
> >Try 1-800-usedrim. I believe they are the ones for used rims. or i
think
> >there is also 1-800-fixarim to repair bent rims, but it may not be
> >repairable if it is bent badly.
> >
> >Matt
> >#311
> >For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> >http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

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Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:01:18 -0500
From: Michael Booker <mrbook@gate.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Speedometer cable attachment point?

Thanks, all who responded. I took it to the transmission shop, and when
he unscrewed it, that small rectangular-shaped piece that fits into the
transmission case fell out in his hand. he proceeded to hand it to me
and proclaim "Here's the problem". So, my next question, how much of a
pain is it to pull the dash and replace the cable. I'm getting the
repair manual, and i will try it after i get it, but have any of you
pulled the dash? Thanks again for any help.

Matt
3/Si #311
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Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:21:55
From: MARK CREEKMORE <mcreekmore@usa.net>
Subject: Team3S: New Member

Hi,
I'm new to this list. I'm Mark Creekmore from Akron, Ohio. I've been reading through the archives and this seems like a very technical group. I look forward to chatting with everyone.




Mark
Black '92 R/T, K&N Filter, HKS dual tip exaust, Alamo Downpipe, Random Tech. Cat., HKS EVC IV, Stillen Sport Rotor Kit (disks, pads, lines, fluid), Fittipaldi Tubolare 18" Rims, Sumitomo HTRZ II 245/45ZR18 Tires, Strut tower hood scoop.

____________________________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:26:04 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Subject: Team3S: tire sizes

I'm sorry these questions get asked all the time.  I did check the FAQ
at 3000GT.com but found incomplete info.  Perhaps every few weeks or so,
the lists could do information gathering on some topic of choice and
update the FAQ!!!

Anyway, I will need new tires soon and would like to go wider.  I was
wondering if anyone has had success or failure with the following sizes
on the stock rim:

255/45/17
255/40/17
265/40/17

I already know that 275/40/17 will rub using the stock offset.

Thanks,
Ken
- --

Ken Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:35:28 -0800
From: "Bill Brandt" <compren@lightspeed.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: need wheel

What size are they?

(17 or 18"?)

- -Thanks

- -Bill/'95 VR-4 Spyder
- ----------
>From: George Kuo <amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
>To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>Subject: Re: Team3S: need wheel
>Date: Tue, Jan 12, 1999, 12:44 PM
>

>I have a set of '92 3000GT VR4 chrome wheels.. with worn Yokohama
>autocross tires.. $700 for the set.. Im in Ca.
>
>George
>
>
>
>
>---Wayne <wala@hypertech-inc.com> wrote:
>>
>> You can also try this place, although if i remember correct, they
>are kinda
>> expensive.
>> aaarims.com
>>
>>
>>
>> At 12:16 PM 1/12/99 -0500, you wrote:
>> >Palamara, Peter wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I was curious if any one knows of or a place for used wheels???
>The last
>> >> snow storm here in Colorado made my car go straight instead of
>turning
>> >> and I hit a curb hard enough that the wheel cannot be repaired. I'm
>> >> trying to find a chrome vr-4 wheel for model year 1992 in excellent
>> >> condition. Thanx
>> >>
>> >> Pete Palamara
>> >> 1992 3000 VR-4
>> >> 303-689-4733
>> >>
>> >> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>> >http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>> >Try 1-800-usedrim. I believe they are the ones for used rims. or i
>think
>> >there is also 1-800-fixarim to repair bent rims, but it may not be
>> >repairable if it is bent badly.
>> >
>> >Matt
>> >#311
>> >For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>> >http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>>
>> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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>
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 19:21:08 -0500
From: josesini <josesini@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: tire sizes

Ken,

I just installed Yokohamas 255/40/17 on stock 92 Stealth TT rims.  No
problems.

Good luck.

Jose
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:44:50 -0800
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject: Team3S: Administrative notice

Time for a brief Administrative interruption:

We created this list for technical discussions. While we allow posting of
private (not business) advertisements of parts for sale, PLEASE respond to
these (and other non-technical questions/comments) PRIVATELY, not to the
list.

THANKS!!!

Looking forward...Chris

"Friends don't let friends ride with me"

1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/HKS Super Flo intake, HKS SBOV, Predator dry
cell battery, bored and polished throttle body, Magnecore 8.5mm wires, HKS
double platinum plugs gapped at .034", GReddy PRofec A boost controller,
GReddy turbo timer, ATR downpipe and test pipe, GReddy catback exhaust,
Eibach 1" drop progressive springs)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 20:19:55 -0500
From: Shawn Dewey <sdewey@dmv.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: tire sizes

>Anyway, I will need new tires soon and would like to go wider.  I was
>wondering if anyone has had success or failure with the following sizes
>on the stock rim:
>
>255/45/17
>255/40/17
>265/40/17
>
>I already know that 275/40/17 will rub using the stock offset.


I just put a set of 275/40 17's on my '93 VR4 with the factory chrome
wheels and factory offset with no rub whatsoever and I know that Bob
Fontana has run the 275's with no rubbing either (the reason I bought what
I bought!...thanks Bob!) It is a very tight fit on the inside shoulder of
the tire to the strut on the front wheels but does not rub anywhere.

My 275's are Firestone SZ50's and Bob's 275's (the ones I saw) were Eagle
GSC's

I will shortly be installing the GAB's from RD Enterprises if the boat ever
makes it over here that has the GAB's on it.
I will also be installing the H&R springs from Tire Rack at the same time.
I will update the list whenever the GAB's show up.



- -shawn dewey

'91 Stealth R/T nonturbo 15.426 @ 90.68 (in the happy hands of a new owner!)
'93 3000GT VR4 12.98 @ 107 mph
'91 Talon TSI AWD 13.6 @ 98.8 (the commuter car, yeah right! :)
'95 Talon ESi SCCA Race Car (SSC class)
http://home.dmv.com/~sdewey
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

End of Team3S Digest V1 #72
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