--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #70
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk

Team3S Digest Sunday, January 10 1999 Volume 01 : Number 070

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 16:07:20 -0500
From: Brian Danley <bcdmad@concentric.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Re: Wastegate Actuators?

[Brian Danley] Yes this list is the only way most of us can even begin to
understand are cars. The thing I really hate is people like BOB FONTANA
taking PICTURES to try to relate how things on our cars work :) If it
weren't for the pictures Bob and others have posted/link many of us would
still be looking for stuff on our cars :) Keep in up guy's. That's what
the list is all about.
Brian
AKA Gammara "the little turtle that could."
93 vr-4
Are you kidding, you guys are beyond the best for helping some poor guy try
to make their car work.

>Then again, if that's eliminated in due corse, it could be just about
anything...but the upside is that
>we have a lot of really good on line help here : )
>
>

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 17:33:12 -0500
From: Marc Jaffe <marc@marcjaffe.com>
Subject: Subject: Re: Team3S: still have anti lock brake issues

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" link="#0000EE" vlink="#551A8B" alink="#FF0000">
Darc, here is your response for my abs problem
1) turn key to ON position....does it flash 4 times very rapidly?
 YES
 2) then turn key to START position....does it remain lit?
 NO, blinks 4 times
 3) then return key from START position to ON position....does it flash
4
 times in about a second again?
 NOTHING
I have not removed the sensors yet...(one bolt?) how do i clean them..what
do you expect i will see when i remove them?
I intentionally went into a skid in the snow last night and after the
anti lock worked, it failed after i let off the brakes until i restarted
the car, twice. fine the next day
on another note, i am experiencing some more suspension issues (63k
miles) the front end seems to be clunking on rough pavements. when i put
it in sport mode it goes away...shot shocks?
 Marc
</body>
</html>

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 00:58:13 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Fuel or Manifold Pressure?

> I cant agree with this Roger, if you dont add fuel, you can't safely run
> high boost without risking high EGT's and knock.

This is true, but I'm thinking that the larger amount of fuel cools the chamber
down to prevent a lean (and therefore hot) situation.

> Gutting the precats did nothing to improve my boost or high EGT's.

Does this mean that you had the EGT probe already in the exhaust manifold
installed before and after gutting the cat and that you haven't found any
difference in temperatures at the same boost ? This is an issue I'm very
interested in !

> All the exhaust energy used to drive the turbine comes during the power
> stroke.

<snip> Good explanation!

> FUEL IS THE KEY. These cars need to run way past stoiciometric (rich). In
> conversations with an engine designer recently, he mentioned that rich
> combustion burns significantly faster and HOTTER. I mentioned that my
> experience clearly indicated that rich runs cooler. Since he is an avid
> drag racing fan, he said he was aware of this in racing applications and
> attributed this to the excess fuel absorbing heat as well as preventing heat
> generated by knock (a lot!).

This is interesting, but I just cannot believe that a rich mixture (more fuel)
should cause hotter combustion chamber temperatures. IMHO, a lean situation
increases the temperature and therefore higher EGTs. If this is not the case, I
have to borrow some books immediatly :) For the heat generated by knock, isn't
it vice versa ? Too much heat is causing knock, ... or I'm totally out of my way
now ??

> I don't think the exhaust manifold is the
> problem, it's possible that switching to a bigger manifold will only
> increase boost lag.

Well, I don't hope to get more and more lag with my future upgrades.

Thanks for the great thoughts,
Roger

- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 18:25:39 -0800
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Team3S: still have anti lock brake issues

- --------------81E16C485D946449F45A7ABF
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Marc Jaffe wrote:

> Darc, here is your response for my abs problem

Okay, hopefully you double or triple checked so we don't have to do it
again.

So here goes from the troubleshooting section from the manual. I am also
assuming we are talking 1st generation TT. (You might try and invest in
a 2 manual set when you have the opportunity...it's worth it.)

>
>
> 1) turn key to ON position....does it flash 4 times very rapidly?
> YES

This is normal and it is doing what it is supposed to do.

> 2) then turn key to START position....does it remain lit?
> NO, blinks 4 times

It's not doing what it's supposed to do here. It's supposed to stay lit.
Options from the manual here, include (1) a malfunction of the valve
relay (2) Break in harness between ABS warning light and HU (Hydralic
Unit) (3) Break in the harness between HU and the body ground. Check 2
and 3 and see if you can find the break/loose wire/loose or faulty
connection. Hopefully you'll find something and that will take care of
it. If it is a valve malfunction, then valve replacement is
recommended...and if HU harness malfunction then HU replacement is
recommended. A flow chart for all of this is on 5-32 of the Stealth
manual.

> 3) then return key from START position to ON position....does it flash
> 4
> times in about a second again?
> NOTHING

I suspect the problem is in #2 above, so fix it there and this will
likely be taken care of and flash as it is supposed to. If #2
corrections do not help, then causes for this check (#3) are either a
break in the ECU harness for the warning light drive circuit or
Malfunction of the ECU. At this point I suspect your problem is not
here.

>
>
> I have not removed the sensors yet...(one bolt?) how do i clean
> them..what do you expect i will see when i remove them?

Check for a sensor harness wire being frayed or broken. Check that the
sensor harness wires and body connectors are properely connected. Hard
to say what to look for, but it should be evident if the problem is at
this/these location/s...inspect closely and clean if dirty. Too wide a
sensor gap in one sensor as compared to others could also cause a
problem.

>
>
> I intentionally went into a skid in the snow last night and after the
> anti lock worked, it failed after i let off the brakes until i
> restarted the car, twice. fine the next day.

Sounds like a loose wire or faulty connection somewhere with
intermittent behaviour like this, but who knows?

>
>
> on another note, i am experiencing some more suspension issues (63k
> miles) the front end seems to be clunking on rough pavements. when i
> put it in sport mode it goes away...shot shocks?

Not likely shot shocks...more than likely broken active suspension wires
or connectors at the top of your shock towers. Check there.

Hope this was some help...go one small step at a time, take your time
and inspect closely. Demystifying the car is a great feeling... because
at that point you develope an intimacy with it that is non verbal.

Best (of luck).

Darc

- --------------81E16C485D946449F45A7ABF
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
<BODY TEXT="#000000" BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF" LINK="#0000EE" VLINK="#551A8B" ALINK="#FF0000">
 

Marc Jaffe wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> Darc, here is your response for my abs problem</BLOCKQUOTE>
Okay, hopefully you double or triple checked so we don't have to do it
again.

So here goes from the troubleshooting section from the manual. I am
also assuming we are talking 1st generation TT. (You might try and invest
in a 2 manual set when you have the opportunity...it's worth it.)
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> 

1) turn key to ON position....does it flash 4 times very rapidly?
 YES</BLOCKQUOTE>
This is normal and it is doing what it is supposed to do.
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>

2) then turn key to START position....does it remain lit?
 NO, blinks 4 times</BLOCKQUOTE>
It's not doing what it's supposed to do here. It's supposed to stay lit.
Options from the manual here, include (1) a malfunction of the valve relay
(2) Break in harness between ABS warning light and HU (Hydralic Unit) 
(3) Break in the harness between HU and the body ground. Check 2 and 3
and see if you can find the break/loose wire/loose or faulty connection.
Hopefully you'll find something and that will take care of it. If it is
a valve malfunction, then valve replacement is recommended...and if HU
harness malfunction then HU replacement is recommended. A flow chart for
all of this is on 5-32 of the Stealth manual.
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>

3) then return key from START position to ON position....does it flash
4
 times in about a second again?
 NOTHING</BLOCKQUOTE>
I suspect the problem is in #2 above, so fix it there and this will likely 
be taken care of and flash as it is supposed to. If #2 corrections do not
help, then causes for this check (#3) are either a break in the ECU harness
for the warning light drive circuit or Malfunction of the ECU. At this
point I suspect your problem is not here.
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> 

I have not removed the sensors yet...(one bolt?) how do i clean them..what
do you expect i will see when i remove them?</BLOCKQUOTE>
Check for a sensor harness wire being frayed or broken. Check that the
sensor harness wires and body connectors are properely connected. Hard
to say what to look for, but it should be evident if the problem is at
this/these location/s...inspect closely and clean if dirty. Too wide a
sensor gap in one sensor as compared to others could also cause a problem.
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> 

I intentionally went into a skid in the snow last night and after the
anti lock worked, it failed after i let off the brakes until i restarted
the car, twice. fine the next day.</BLOCKQUOTE>
Sounds like a loose wire or faulty connection somewhere with intermittent
behaviour like this, but who knows?
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> 

on another note, i am experiencing some more suspension issues (63k
miles) the front end seems to be clunking on rough pavements. when i put
it in sport mode it goes away...shot shocks?</BLOCKQUOTE>
Not likely shot shocks...more than likely broken active suspension wires
or connectors at the top of your shock towers. Check there.

Hope this was some help...go one small step at a time, take your time
and inspect closely. Demystifying the car is a great feeling... because
at that point you develope an intimacy with it that is non verbal.

Best  (of luck).

Darc
  
</BODY>
</HTML>

- --------------81E16C485D946449F45A7ABF--

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 20:27:18 -0600
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@texas.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Letter to Federal Trade Commission (long)

The Shifter lever itself and the cast piece that connects directly to it is
all that is needed in the swap. I successfully did this on my girlfriends
Stealth TT this past week.

> Brad
>
> Check out my home page: http://lonestar.texas.net/~bbedell
> E-Mail: bbedell@texas.net ICQ# 3612682

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com] On Behalf Of Bob Fontana
Sent: Friday, January 08, 1999 1:29 PM
To: 3000/Stealth Technical List
Subject: RE: Team3S: Letter to Federal Trade Commission (long)

First, let me say that Jack Tertadian has written several letters to
Mitsubishi and has spend countless nickels calling Getrag on our behalf. I
decided to take the tougher approach because my own tranny (that I paid
$4365 for) has started to come apart after 2000 miles. I'm tired of playing
games.

As for the shorter lever on newer versions, my understanding is that the
94-and-up models indeed have a shorter throw. A few others had made the the
replacement with good results. I might do it myself in a month or so. Best
thing to do is post the question out on the technical list, asking "Who has
replaced their 91-93 shifters with a 94+ shift lever and what was involved
in the swap?" Seems like I saw a post on that very subject recently.

- -Bob

> I for one appreciate all your hard work in this matter. This was
> a very good
> letter. I hope you are successful. There are many of us out here
> rooting for
> you/us. Maybe with several complaints they will finally help us. I would
> also like to say thanks to Bill W. and any other people who have been
> working on this.
>
> Now my obligatory question. Is the shifter knob shorter on later years? I
> know the shifter itself is. I cut about 1" out of mine over Christmas and
> it's a vast improvement. I'm looking for about another 1/2".
>
> Thanks
> Todd

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 09:18:15 -0500
From: "Bob Fontana" <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
Subject: Team3S: Shifter swap

Brad,

What year shifter did you replace it with?

- -Bob

> The Shifter lever itself and the cast piece that connects
> directly to it is
> all that is needed in the swap. I successfully did this on my girlfriends
> Stealth TT this past week.
>
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 09:39:08 -0500
From: "Trent" <rtrent@nlci.com>
Subject: Team3S: Fuel and Manifold Pressure

Roger,
Our experience indicates that the excess fuel effectively cools combustion,
I agree that adding this excess fuel dosn't seem like the best way to
control the knock problem. Unfortunately it seems that this is the best way
to gain boost on our otherwise stock engines. I'm guessing that in order to
control knock any other way would require a complete re-design, i.e. cam
timing, ignition map, head cooling etc. According to one resource, Maximum
Boost-Designing Testing and Installing Turbocharger Systems (by Corky Bell -
good book, even has references to the VR4 engine) when choosing between two
exhaust manifold designs: "When a choice exists as to exhaust manifold tube
size, always opt for the smaller, to keep exhaust velocities high".
Regarding the EGT probe. Unfortunately I installed the EGT at the same time
I installed the 13g's and gutted the cats. My conclusions were based on the
fact that ignition retard was still occuring at the very same boost levels
as before I gutted the cats. The only difference was with the EGT installed
I was able to verify that my exhaust gas temps were too high at high boost.
According to my I.C. engineering text, severe knock can spike pressure to 2x
normal pressure. As temp. is a fuction of pressure, knock will cause the
cylinder head temp. to spike also, leading to more knock etc.
Anyway, results tell all, I'm looking forward to hearing about how your new
modifications turn out.

Regards,
DaveT/92TT

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 09:46:33 -0500
From: "Trent" <rtrent@nlci.com>
Subject: Team3S: Knock Sensor Confirmation

All,
Has anyone tried tapping into the knock sensor/ECU input in order to monitor
knock. I hate it when the ECU knows more about what is going on than I do.
I'm thinking a red LED set to the knock threshold would be pretty usefull.
Otherwise, if we knew what the voltage output was when knock occurs, we
could monitor with an onboard VOM.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:56:43 -0500
From: jstump <jstump@erols.com>
Subject: Team3S: Stealth Upgrade

Probably stupid questions.
I am starting to build up my stealth TT . I am starting with an extreme
air filter, down pipe, high flow cat,and tremal research cat back
exhaust, as well as cluth masters clutch, pressure plate and a alloy fly
wheel.
The next step I want to take is a boost controller and EVC type, I do
not want to be buying parts that will be obsolete in further upgrade

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:30:01 -0500
From: "Fein, Edward" <fein@strategy.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: oil survey

I'll admit it - it's taking me forever to catch up on my email from the
holidays.

=======================================

1. Vehicle: 1994 VR-4
2. Current mileage: 63,000 (purchased Feb '97 with 36,000 miles on it).
2. Oil weight: 5W50
3. Oil brand: Castrol Syntec (Full Synthetic)
4. Filter brand: Fram (I often use the "Tough Guard" version) - changed with
every oil change.
5. Additives: None during my ownership
6. Change frequency: 2500 - 4000 miles, depending on use (low-rpm highway
cruising vs. high-rpm track use)
7. Observations: Loud lifter tick when hot and idling. After reading the
other survey entries, I'm going to try 15W50 in the summer.

========================================

 -Ed
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:33:31 -0800
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Team3S: Fuel and Manifold Pressure

Trent wrote:

> Roger,
> Our experience indicates that the excess fuel effectively cools combustion,
> I agree that adding this excess fuel dosn't seem like the best way to
> control the knock problem. Unfortunately it seems that this is the best way
> to gain boost on our otherwise stock engines.

<snip>

Hey Trent;

This is a fresh approach and makes sense. Too lean may indeed be the problem. So I guess
the question is, with our stock setups (add a boost control), how does one even hope to
manage a richer fuel supply without going waste deep into the greenbacks? I am now
certain the shudder (which I thought was rear end/drive train related at WOT) is instead
boost related, and is the proverbial knock and timing retard everyone has noted. Your
note on smaller exhaust manifold tube size also seems to confirm what many TT owners
have stated...that a Cat back does not seem to increase performance significantly and
some claim it decreased it (at least in the lower end). Those who note an increase, I
suspect, are also those who are into heavier mods to support it. Food for thought.

Best

Darc

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:42:53 -0600
From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Shifter swap

1994 shifter parts. I do have some pictures, but they are not
developed/scanned yet.
There is only two pieces you will need, the main shaft that runs vertical is
about 30.00 at the dealer. I am unsure of the cost of the piece that it
connects to (horizontal shaft)

> Brad
>
> Check out my home page: http://lonestar.texas.net/~bbedell
> E-Mail: bbedell@austin.rr.com ICQ# 3612682

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com] On Behalf Of Bob Fontana
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 1999 8:18 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Shifter swap

Brad,

What year shifter did you replace it with?

- -Bob

> The Shifter lever itself and the cast piece that connects
> directly to it is
> all that is needed in the swap. I successfully did this on my girlfriends
> Stealth TT this past week.
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 11:06:47 PST
From: "Michael Reiss" <michael_reiss@hotmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: Bad axle bearing DIY?

Thought I had a warped rotor, but realized when the whole hub moved that
most likely it's a bad rear axle bearing.
Anyone have a bearing go bad? is it a do it yourself project (VR4)?
(without the "special tools" for pulling the axle or removing the
bearings/oil seals?)

I have changed my own timing belt (correctly) so traditional NON-DIY
projects don't scare me. Just don't want to get half way in and realize
that I'm stuck because I don't have a tool that can do the job.

Curious what the great satan dealership charges for the job (bearing can
be too bad, but labor?)
Any help greatly appreciated,
Thanks

______________________________________________________
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Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:23:34 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Knock Sensor Confirmation

That would be great. Unfortunately it is not that simple. This has been
hashed over before but here's a summary.

The knock sensor is nothing more than a piezo electric pickup. It creates a
voltage signal in conjunction with vibration. The output from the knock
sensor is chaotic at best. It is not feasible to attempt to detect knock by
simply reading the voltage. The signal is interpretted by the ECU using
digital signal processing techniques to detect knock. The DSP process
filters out stray noises, large signals which might otherwise be as "load"
as knock but not actually be knock and so on. It also takes into
consideration the ignition window of the engine since high amplitude signals
which are knock will only occur in a certain crank angle window.

There are knock monitors on the market -- HKS comes to mind -- and a few new
ones are coming down the pike.

The bottom line is you cannot derive any useful information from simply
reading the kock sensor with a DVM.

Regards,

Barry

> -----Original Message-----
> All,
> Has anyone tried tapping into the knock sensor/ECU input in order
> to monitor
> knock. I hate it when the ECU knows more about what is going on
> than I do.
> I'm thinking a red LED set to the knock threshold would be pretty usefull.
> Otherwise, if we knew what the voltage output was when knock occurs, we
> could monitor with an onboard VOM.
> Regards,
> DaveT/92TT

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:46:59 -0600
From: Jeff Crabtree <wjcrabtree@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Bad axle bearing DIY?

Michael Reiss wrote:

> Thought I had a warped rotor, but realized when the whole hub moved that
> most likely it's a bad rear axle bearing.
> Anyone have a bearing go bad?

> <<SNIP>>

> Curious what the great satan dealership charges for the job

Roughly one year ago, I had a front bearing go south and eat up the axle. I didn't have
time to mess with it myself so I took it into the dealer(the only people I semi-trust
around my car anymore, other than me). With a new(or possibly salvaged) axle, other
parts and labor, I think it was around $450. Not too bad.....but worth looking into
doing yourself, if you've got the time.
- --
- -Jeff Crabtree
 '91 Stealth R/T Turbo(#499)
 '93 Wrangler 4.0L Sport
 St. Louis, MO

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Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:07:03 -0500
From: jstump <jstump@erols.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Boost Controllers etc.

jstump wrote:
>
> I am looking to buy a boost controller. HKS,Greddy,Blitz, Apex'i or
> manual. Does anyone have an opinion on which boost controller to get.
> Also I am looking to buy an Fuel Control Unit(Such as HKS vpc). Ifi I get an HKS VPC do I have to use their duel filter setup.Thanks
> for your help.
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Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:09:31 -0500
From: jstump <jstump@erols.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Boost Controllers etc.

jstump wrote:
>
> I am looking to buy a boost controller. HKS,Greddy,Blitz, Apex'i or
> manual. Does anyone have an opinion on which boost controller to get.
> Also I am looking to buy an Fuel Control Unit(Such as HKS vpc).If I get the HKS VPC, do I haqve to get theie Dual air filter. Thanks
> fo your help.
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Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 00:10:25 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Boost Controllers etc.

I'd say to contact a dealer that will put everything into a Stage 1 or 2 package
on a good price.
Check out with one of the following addresses as they know our cars :
http://www.nexusmotorsports.com
http://www.extrememotorsports.com/catalog.htm
http://www.AlteredAtmosphere.com
httP://www.acceleratedaccessories.com

or any other who has the parts available.

> > I am looking to buy a boost controller. HKS,Greddy,Blitz, Apex'i or
> > manual. Does anyone have an opinion on which boost controller to get.
> > Also I am looking to buy an Fuel Control Unit(Such as HKS vpc). Ifi I get an HKS VPC do I have to use their duel filter setup.Thanks
> > for your help.

- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)

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End of Team3S Digest V1 #70
***************************

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