--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #62
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest         Friday, January 1 1999         Volume 01 : Number 062




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 20:22:30 -0800
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject: Team3S: RE: BOV questions

- -----Original Message-----
From: Matthews [mailto:matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 1998 8:35 AM
To: Team 3S
Subject: Team3S: BOV questions
<snip>
3. If replacing the BOV will cure the HOOT sound, has anyone been
successful with an aftermarket BOV that vents back to the intake, like
the stock BOV does (and which is apparently the cause of the
resonance)?  I think some BOVs vent to both the intake and to the
atmosphere depending on pressure, which sounds like a good idea.  I
think the A'PEXi BOV is one such unit but is difficult to mount on an
S3.

Thanx!! -Jim

P.S.- GTAlley's fix for the HOOT sound is to vent the stock BOV to the
atmosphere and plug the connection to the intake.  I asked Extreme
Motorsports to do this when I was back in the states and they refused,
saying it is a bad idea.  Any comments?
==================================
Jim (and fellow 3SIers)...

Sorry to join late in the e-versation, but I have a couple perspectives (and
a question).

First off, the HKS SBOV comes with a plug for the intake on the y-pipe and
shows the stock BOV removed. This is what I have installed on my VR4 and
removed the stock BOV. It's been working fine (although my question is
related).

Second, the Blitz BOV that Hau sold me was installed on Errin's VR4 with a T
that connected it back to the y-pipe and had the stock BOV still installed.
It also seemed to work fine, although Errin said he had to back the
adjusting screw almost all the way out to get it to purge (because the
pressure wasn't being forced through the BOV?). I talked to my favorite
mechanic (John Boline, of Gateway Automotive) who said he can't imagine why
you would route the gases back into the y-pipe as this will still slow the
turbos. Perhaps a part of the Blitz design?

My question...a couple weeks ago, I described what I called "fuel cut" as
the result of running 1.1bar with a full 3" exhaust. A number of you offered
opinions about how to avoid this but when someone (I deleted the e-mail)
described "stalling" related to his installation of his BOV, I wondered if
there's a connection. Just to clarify, my "fuel cut" occurs around 4500rpm
under WOT in 2nd and 3rd gear. It lasts for less than a second and throws
you forward with quite a jolt. There seems to be no effect on driveability
(other than the short term shut off). I believe what I read about "stalling"
was a longer term problem of poor running. Any connections? Any ideas?

BTW...I couldn't use the Blitz BOV because the piping and bracket was
designed for use with the K&N intake (I have a HKS) so I ended up using the
HKS SBOV. If anyone is interested in buying the Blitz, let me know.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 21:08:09 -0800
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject: Team3S: oil survey

howdy folks...

One last chance (through the weekend)...if you haven't sent in your details,
here's the format:

=======================================

1. Vehicle:
2. Current mileage:
2. Oil weight:
3. Oil brand:
4. Filter brand:
5. Additives:
6. Change frequency:
7. Observations:

========================================

I will complete my tally next week and post the results.

Have a HAPPY NEW YEAR, one and all, three hours and counting!!!

Looking forward...Chris

"Friends don't let friends ride with me"

1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 23:35:27 -0800
From: Rich <rleroy@pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Greddy exhaust

Frank:

Please be aware that the stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com mailing list is
NOT a venue for commercial sales advertisements.  The list is for
technical discussion.  Please note our rules that you agreed to when you
signed up.  Even private party sales, while not prohibited, are
discouraged on this list.

This is the second warning sent to this mailing address for rules
infractions.  We will permanently terminate your subscription if a third
infraction occurs.

Rich LeRoy
Admin - Team3S


Meyer wrote:
>
> We have only one Slightly damaged, brand new Greddy VR4 exhaust system
> available for $500.  This system has one small dent in the muffler in
> a spot that will not be visible when installed.  Performance and
> durability will not be affected. Call 301 824 3337 or email to order
> Frank
> www.acceleratedaccessories.com
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 09:12:08 -0500
From: Brian Danley <bcdmad@concentric.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: BOV questions; FPR question

Well when you run more boost you need more fuel.. When You add a Fuel
Pressure Reg. you can push a little bit more through the stock injectors.
 But when you go to bigger injectors and a bigger fuel pump you want that
extra pressure to help supply the correct amount of fuel and at the right
pressure. The stock pressure is about 45 psi... people have been know to
run up to 70-75 with bigger injectors and big turbos.  I think this  should
be in the staged upgrades... in the stage either before or during the fuel
pump and injector upgrades.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Cameron Brandon [SMTP:cbran@dsinw.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 1998 7:09 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: BOV questions; FPR question

  OK, so it appears i don't need to replace a stock BOV as part of the
staged upgrade process, but what about a FPR? Gary Zimmerman had one as
part of the usual mods, and wondered why he did it... Any ideas?

Cameron
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm



For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 09:21:27 -0500
From: Brian Danley <bcdmad@concentric.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: BOV questions

[Brian Danley] Well as for fuel cut ... How cold is it outside.  This is a
big factor.  I used to get cut when it got real cold.  The air is more
dense when it's cold and the MAS reads the air coming in as "more air".  So
you will get fuel cut at the same PSI because the MAS doesn't measure
boost/ PSI but air and how dense it is.

PS as for the vent of the bov,  in vents back into the intake.. not the
Y-pipe.  But this still gives you hot air going into the intake instead of
fresh air.



 My question...a couple weeks ago, I described what I called "fuel cut" as
the result of running 1.1bar with a full 3" exhaust. A number of you
offered
opinions about how to avoid this but when someone (I deleted the e-mail)
described "stalling" related to his installation of his BOV, I wondered if
there's a connection. Just to clarify, my "fuel cut" occurs around 4500rpm
under WOT in 2nd and 3rd gear. It lasts for less than a second and throws
you forward with quite a jolt. There seems to be no effect on driveability
(other than the short term shut off). I believe what I read about
"stalling"
was a longer term problem of poor running. Any connections? Any ideas?




For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 11:28:05 -0500
From: Michael Booker <mrbook@gate.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: oil survey

> =======================================
>
> 1. Vehicle: 1993 Stealth R/T NA
> 2. Current mileage:97, 200
> 2. Oil weight:10W-30
> 3. Oil brand:Mobil-1
> 4. Filter brand:purolator pure-one (but soon to be a stock mitsu)
> 5. Additives:None
> 6. Change frequency:5000 miles
> 7. Observations:No knocking, very little valve chatter or lifter noise, even with the miles.


>
> ========================================
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 16:36:22 -0500 (EST)
From: JEEPers <fxc9364@megahertz.njit.edu>
Subject: Team3S: Oil survey

=======================================

1. Vehicle: 1992 Black Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4
2. Current mileage: 60,500 miles
2. Oil weight: 10W30
3. Oil brand: Mobil 1 Synthetic
4. Filter brand: Fram (Orange)
5. Additives: Slick 50 (A long time ago)
6. Change frequency: 3-4000 miles
7. Observations: Oil gets pretty dark

========================================


      Frank
                    -JEEPers-
"Kung-Fu Forrest"

MY WEB PAGE IS UP AT http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Canyon/6045/

"Jeep is America's only real sports car"     Mr. Enzo Ferrari


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 16:38:27 -0500 (EST)
From: JEEPers <fxc9364@megahertz.njit.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Greddy exhaust

BTW, that's Frank Meyer and Not Frank "JEEPers" Chen who rich is referring
to.  Just thought I want to clear things up in case somebody mistaken it
for me.



On Thu, 31 Dec 1998, Rich wrote:

>>Frank:
>>
>>Please be aware that the stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com mailing list is
>>NOT a venue for commercial sales advertisements.  The list is for
>>technical discussion.  Please note our rules that you agreed to when you
>>signed up.  Even private party sales, while not prohibited, are
>>discouraged on this list.
>>
>>This is the second warning sent to this mailing address for rules
>>infractions.  We will permanently terminate your subscription if a third
>>infraction occurs.
>>
>>Rich LeRoy
>>Admin - Team3S
>>
>>
>>Meyer wrote:
>>>
>>> We have only one Slightly damaged, brand new Greddy VR4 exhaust system
>>> available for $500.  This system has one small dent in the muffler in
>>> a spot that will not be visible when installed.  Performance and
>>> durability will not be affected. Call 301 824 3337 or email to order
>>> Frank
>>> www.acceleratedaccessories.com
>>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>>


      Frank
                    -JEEPers-
"Kung-Fu Forrest"

MY WEB PAGE IS UP AT http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Canyon/6045/

"Jeep is America's only real sports car"     Mr. Enzo Ferrari

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 14:13:37 -0800
From: "Errin D. Humphrey" <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: BOV questions

Lots of BOV stuff here:

Matthews wrote:

> 1. Is the volume of a BOV due to a restriction in the air flow, like a
> whistle?  Since the idea behind a BOV is to let the air blow off as
> easily as possible to keep the turbos spinning, wouldn't a loud BOV
> therefore be undesirable?  Or are we talking minimal impact?

I have never heard of a BOV's volume/loudness being ~the~ important
factor in its operation.  It is more of a by-product of its design.  Design
of the valve and spring itself seems more important.  Furthermore,
according to HKS, most BOV's can be designed to efficiently vent
pressure at either high boost pressures or low boost pressures, but not
both.  Their Sequential design allows their BOV's to do both, supposedly.

Lastly, I would surmise that in order to "let the air blow off as easily as
possible to keep ..." a well-designed BOV should vent the air as ~quickly~
as possible and it will thus mostly likely be louder.  This is only speculation
on my part.

> 2. Also, has anyone successfully eliminated the HOOT sound commonly
> experienced by those with FIPKs by replacing the stock BOV with an
> aftermarket unit?

I'm GLAD that you asked this!  I recently took Hau's Blitz BOV off of
my car in order to give it to Chris.  Several weeks went by without
boosting my car because my clutch has been fried.  Now with my
clutch replaced, I immediately noticed this "hooting" noise, and I have
been bothered as to what it might be.  The sound is intermittent--as
you say only at lower boost levels--and it makes the noise whether or
not I have the AVC-R valve installed (I just reinstalled it the other day).
I'm pretty sure that the sound wasn't around when I had the Blitz on my
car, but I can't be 100% sure.  Why?  Wellll... because for most of the
time that I had it, I was running either downpipe-only (VERY rumbly)
and later dual straightpipes only w/ no cats/mufflers (mind-NUMBingly
loud above 2500 rpm; like someone is running a chainsaw in your car),
so needless to say, I couldn't quite hear/enjoy all the fun sounds my car
was making.  Getting dual mufflers and dual glasspacks gave me my
hearing back, but by that time (3 months ago) my clutch was wasted
from too much racing.

> 3. If replacing the BOV will cure the HOOT sound, has anyone been
> successful with an aftermarket BOV that vents back to the intake, like
> the stock BOV does (and which is apparently the cause of the
> resonance)?  I think some BOVs vent to both the intake and to the
> atmosphere depending on pressure, which sounds like a good idea.  I
> think the A'PEXi BOV is one such unit but is difficult to mount on an
> S3.

The stock BOV is not really a BOV, per se.  It is better to call it
a "bypass valve" because that is a more accurate description of what
it does.  The Blitz BOV that I had on my car utilizes the stock bypass
valve by being connected to it in sequence.  Like the stocker, it also
reads post-TB pressure (right before the surge tank).  When I upgrade
my BOV, I will not go with the Blitz simply because I do not want to
utilize the stock bypass valve, even if there are some benefits to
keeping some of the air in the system.  Blitz does seem the BOV of
choice for Supras, however.  I will probably go with the HKS.

BTW, I have heard ~many~ bad things about the Apexi BOV from
owner experiences on the Supra Mailing List.  Most end up ditching
it because once they install it, their boost levels drop dramatically.

> P.S.- GTAlley's fix for the HOOT sound is to vent the stock BOV to the
> atmosphere and plug the connection to the intake.

As others have noted, this sounds like a bad idea.  The stocker was
not designed to work as a BOV.  It was designed to be a bypass
valve.  I don't think it reads the pre/post-TB pressure differential in
the same way that an aftermarket BOV does, but I could be wrong.

***Another thing.  On the way back from a trip, my friend riding in the
passenger did indeed place the HOOTing sound as coming directly
from his side of the engine bay.  I had been wondering if the turbos
were involved in the sound (as Mike M. suggests in his experience that
replacing turbos ridded the sound), but my friend noted that it was
definitely from the air intake/y-pipe area straight in front of him. Well,
this makes sense doesn't it?  Think of the sound you get blowing across
that top of a bottle.  So either the sound is coming from the hole in
the Y-pipe (which is subsequently eliminated by using a metal pipe
for an aftermarket BOV?) or the sound is coming from the reentry into
the uncompressed intake side (which is subsequently eliminated by
not using the stocker? but this doesn't apply with the Blitz? but I really
don't know 100% that I wasn't hearing the sound before ... hmmmm).

Roger is right, the stocker leaks.  I think this explains the whistling noise
I was hearing yesterday while boosting up to 1.2 bar on the freeway.
Of course, it could be something else.  Incidentally, I tried to get a clean,
black 80's Porsche NA Carrera 2 to race me on I-5 between Tacoma
and Seattle.  I got up next to him and took off.  He disappeared fast, seem-
ingly not wanting to race me.  But then he was coming up fast!  I mean
Turbo fast!  Well it turned out to be a modded black Eclipse GSX that
I've seen around.  I didn't want to race another Mits brother, and he was
going much faster than I wanted to go on cop-happy New Years Eve,
so I waved and let off.  He slowed and waved.  Friendly guy. Prolly 16G.

Jim, please let us know if installing Roger's HKS gets rid of the HOOT.
If the problem doesn't go away, then I am happy to blame it on Y2K! :)

Chris Winkley wrote:

>Second, the Blitz BOV that Hau sold me was installed on Errin's VR4
>with a T that connected it back to the y-pipe and had the stock BOV
>still installed.  It also seemed to work fine, although Errin said he had to
>back the adjusting screw almost all the way out to get it to purge (because
>the pressure wasn't being forced through the BOV?).

Actually, the screw was originally way in because Hau had it set up at
the time for his 15G's.  After a while I became bothered by the fact that
it wasn't making any noise, so Barry enlightened me to back that screw
out.  I got carried away and backed it WAY out without being concerned
about finding a good midway point.  It was ~plenty~ loud and I was
happy, so I left it that way.  I simply suspect that with the screw way in,
you are using more of the stock bypass-valve, and with it way out you
are using more of the Blitz BOV, since they are in sequence.

Brian Danley wrote:

>PS as for the vent of the bov,  in vents back into the intake.. not the
>Y-pipe.  But this still gives you hot air going into the intake instead of
>fresh air.

True about the stock bypass valve.  But I personally wouldn't classify
the air as "hot."  The air is pressurized:  this is good.  The air is already
accounted for by the MAF: this is good (not so good when some of it
is blown into the atmosphere).  Lastly and most importantly: the air is
intercooled:  this is very good.  The EGR, on the other hand, is a
different story; "hot air" does apply, but I digress.

Happy New Year everyone!

- --Errin Humphrey

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 14:20:03 -0800
From: "Errin D. Humphrey" <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Blitz going out of business???

"R.G." wrote:

> I just got a message from a Supra friend who forwarded me this message :
>
> -----------------------------
> Subject: Re: [mkiv] Blitz going out of business??? [snip]

I kept up with this thread on the Supra list.  Some guys did some
more research and found out that this rumor is ~not~ true.  Of
course, anything is possible, but recent evidence seems to be to
the contrary.  BTW, rumors like this have arisen before with
RS Akimoto, for example.

- --Errin Humphrey

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 23:21:48 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: BOV questions

> that connected it back to the y-pipe and had the stock BOV still installed.
> It also seemed to work fine, although Errin said he had to back the
> adjusting screw almost all the way out to get it to purge (because the
> pressure wasn't being forced through the BOV?). I talked to my favorite
> mechanic (John Boline, of Gateway Automotive) who said he can't imagine why
> you would route the gases back into the y-pipe as this will still slow the
> turbos. Perhaps a part of the Blitz design?

Brian is right, it does NOT connect to the y-pipe but right behind the MAS,
therefore before the turbos.

That a car can be aproved by the government the engine must represent a closed
system. Therefore, crankcase ventilation ends in the intake, pressure will be
released to the intake and even the stock boost solenoid releases some boost
back to the intake.

> My question...a couple weeks ago, I described what I called "fuel cut" as
> the result of running 1.1bar with a full 3" exhaust.

The fuel cut (if it is) is not related to the BOV. It could be that the BOV is
somewhat working bad. As an example, if boost increases to the max fast and
comes back due to the controller limiting the difference can cause  the BOV to
open and therefore power will be lost quickly. As boost drops the BOV closes and
boost is comming back quickly again. Feels like fuel cut !

Check out the EGT and injector duty cycle when you're running into fuel cut. I'm
sure the problem lies elsewhere than at the BOV if you're having real fuel cut.

Hope this helps,
Roger

- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
K&N FIPK,Magnecor wires,Blitz DSBC/gauge/Dual Timer,Apexi AFC,SBOV,
Borla,OZ Mito2,Yoko AVS-Z1,braided brake lines,Bremsa brakes,Pagid RS-R pads


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 23:26:30 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: plug gap revisited

> After all this I took her for a test drive and was very disappointed. My car
> actually felt slower. It accelerated smoother, but wouldn't launch right.
> Today I figured out what was wrong. My grandparents shop is north of Denver,
> at about 6000 ft altitude. My parents house is about 1600 ft. She's running
> good today.

As you disconnected your battery the ECU had to relearn. This phase can cause
your car running better than ever or it can be close to stalling !

I'm living at about 1500 ft and drove many times up to 6300 ft in the alps. I
then was able to feel some small loss but not to mention a lot :)

Cheers, Roger

- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 17:45:54 -0600
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: BOV questions; FPR question

Brian Danley wrote: [snips]
> Well when you run more boost you need more fuel.. When You add a Fuel
> Pressure Reg. you can push a little bit more through the stock injectors.

^ This is true ^

> when you go to bigger injectors/fuel pump you want
> extra pressure to help supply correct amount fuel and at right
> pressure. The stock pressure is 45 psi.  Some
> run 70-75 with bigger injectors/big turbos.  I think this should
> be in staged upgrades before or during fuel pump/injector upgrades.

^ This is not really so IMO ^

The stock TT fuelpressure no boost is about 43psi.  The STOCK
fuelpressure regulator is boost compensated and nicely adds extra
fuelpressure for each pound of boost.  The computer is designed to work
with this rate of increase to provide proper mix.  If you are putting in
bigger turbos you will need more fuel volume to support more horsepower
produced.  How you GET THAT VOLUME can be by either
1)larger injectors at SAME FUELPRESSURE, with computer signal mods
(VPC/GCC, APEXi AFC, TRE MASC) to adjust to the larger injectors...can
work transparently (like stock) with ability to go faster.
2)same small injectors with more fuelpressure--but this will run rich at
idle/cruise, sacrifice all for that topend fuel need
3) combinations of injectors, screwing with fuel pressure, computer
progs, etc

The higher the fuelpressure, the LESS a pump flows at that pressure.  A
pump flows more volume as pressures are lower.  So, you may run into
fuel volume problems, which will be reflected by inability to MAINTAIN
the extra-high pressure you've dialed in at max power.  This is one
reason to try NOT to jack up fuelpressure.  Another is that after about
90 psi injectors can have problems with opening and closing properly.
Another is it heats up the fuel and pump more, and takes more power to
run the pump.

I think the stock FPR works fine, and do not see a reason (given the
aftermarket systems available) to change the stock FPR...UNLESS one has
specific fine-tuning or fuel delivery problems NOT addressable
otherwise.  The aftermarket FPR's frequently add WAY MORE pressure per
pound of boost than the stock FPR, which can lead you to tune well on
bottomend but pig rich as boost goes up.  Of course VPC/GCC/AFC etc can
compensate for this screwing around, but...why spend the money for an
FPR--you just end up jumping around trying to cater to its
idiosyncrasies (relative to stocker).

IF you can say "I am certainly too lean AND have no other good way to
address that problem" then by all means, get an aftermarket FPR and turn
up the pressure some. 
If you can't say "I am certainly too lean AND have no other good way to
address that problem" then spend your money on something worthwhile,
IMO.  BTW, I have an aftermarket FPR, which I put on my car when I was
maxxing out my 550 injectors and running over 1800 degree EGT's.  Of
course, the EGT were up due to timing retard not necessarily leanout but
I wasn't sure of that then...since, I turned the aftermarket one back
down to stock pressure, and only didn't remove it because it had my FP
guage mounted to it and I was lazy :)


>   OK, so it appears i don't need to replace a stock BOV as part of the
> staged upgrade process, but what about a FPR? Gary Zimmerman had one as
> part of the usual mods, and wondered why he did it... Any ideas?

This aftermarket FPR deal is really craaazy.  It is NOT needed as part
of "usual mods" FOR OUR CARS, and we don't need one to get into the
10's.  Beyond THAT, who knows...
As far as the stock BOV, that is fine if 16psi is all you want.  They
start leaking boost between 15 and 18psi...pffffffft!  Changing BOV is
something I WOULD consider a step in the order of sensible mods.

Jack Tertadian

Jack Tertadian
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 20:44:45 -0800
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Team3S: Plugs

Hi Team;

A quick pair of questions on plugs.

The manual quotes the NGK number for TT's as PER6J-11. Does anyone know
if this is the copper or the platinum tip?

I pulled my plugs and found the number PFR6J....is the F desigination a
hotter plug? And, it does not have any-11 behing it as noted in the
manual . Any ideas why?

I know Bob has indicated in the past that the copper tips are great and
recommends them over the pricey platinums. Can you go into this one
again for me/us Bob...as a refresher?

Best

Darc

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

End of Team3S Digest V1 #62
***************************

For unsubscribe info and FAQ, see our web page at http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm