--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #59
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest        Tuesday, December 29 1998        Volume 01 : Number 059




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Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 08:32:55 -0800
From: Rich <rleroy@pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: G-Force ecu on a non-turbo

R.G. wrote:
>
> Matt,
>
> > Has anyone out there with a non-turbo installed
> > a G-force ecu?

<snip>

>
> I never heard of anybody who did this nor have I
> heard of G-Force making one [...]

<snip>

> You can also try to install a Te-Zett "Turbo". This
> is a little electric fan that runs on a very high
> RPM and delivers a small amount of air. it works good
> on smaller displacements and becomes less efficient
> on more than 2.5l.

Roger/Matt:

I installed a TurboZet (I think this is what you are referring to) on
Rommel Dizon's NT this summer.  Rommel and I did some G-Tech runs with
and without the TZ, plus Rommel did some other testing on his own.
Bottom line: you pay big bux, you get a little more air, perhaps a *tad*
more response, and a touch better on your times.  The net gain/$ ratio
were measurable, but pretty darn low.  Results of the TZ experiments
were posted to Starnet at least twice that I am aware of.  Check the
archives there for them.

Rich
Emerald Green 94 R/T
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Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:49:09 -0500
From: "Bob Fontana" <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: G-Force ecu on a non-turbo

If I could put my 2 cents in here...  It seems to me (and I'm sure I'll be
corrected by 500 people if I'm wrong) that, excluding NOS, the biggest
single increase in horsepower to the normally aspirated 3.0 liter DOHC motor
would be achieved by a professional porting and polishing job.  The next
biggest improvement could be accomplished with increased compression, say
going from 10:1 to 11:1.  Then, you go with a GForce upgrade to accomodate
the new flow characteristics.  Wouldn't that net between 50 to 75 horsies?

All of the above assumes that the intake and exhaust are already capable of
meeting flow requirement.  From what I know about Matt's car, he's got the
prerequisites.

- -Bob

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Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:19:13 -0500
From: "rtetetet" <rtetetet@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: ABS light

Well Marc, I can only comment on your first issue. the ABS light. I had a
93SL that was doing the same thing. I never could get to what was wrong but
the list members couldn't either. I would try bleeding out the entire brake
system first. The Mits brakes seem to be sensative to decaying fluid, my
Eclipse was. If it is the ABS ocillator pump, it is really expensive, about
$3000. The is someone on the list with one for sale for $300, check the
classified section on the 3si.org page. Good luck.

Ron



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Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:36:01 -0500
From: "rtetetet" <rtetetet@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 3000GT Specs needed (all gens)

So Roger, are the tools easy to use for this? I just picked up the CD for
this and wanted to add my car. What did you use? Any help appreciated.
Ron



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Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 13:12:36 -0500
From: Marc Jaffe <marc@marcjaffe.com>
Subject: Team3S: ABS light and such

Thanks for the responses.

A)the stereo will go in for repair.
B) the ABS light is still a mystery...I will check battery...i did a
complete fluid change on sunday and the proble still exists..what am i
looking for regarding the sensor in the resivoir....After thought..the
system runs its abs test and then the light goes on...this would refer
to a sensor..the question is ...do they get gunked up? cleanable? and
how do you tell which one?(no repair manual yet)
C)as far as the ecs shocks...nothings blinking (i gave too many
senieros) i was curious how big a deal it is to replace since they are
on their way out.
D)as far as anyone just dealing with the lights in their dash staying
on...if it bothers you...remove the trim around the dash..remove the 4
screws holding the speedo combo and remove the offending bulb.

Again thanx for the response..I knew I could count on you guys to give
good answers
Marc

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Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:12:38 -0500
From: Brian Danley <bcdmad@concentric.net>
Subject: Team3S: HP by way of 1/4 mile times

I found this on a web site and found it interesting. This is how you can
calculate hp from 1/4 mile times.  Now this doesn't take into effect AWD
RWD or FWD.


8<---------------------------------------------
How Much Power?
We all hear those ridiculous horsepower claims from people from time to
time. What is fact and what is fiction? There are a few ways to find out
the truth;
You can put the engine on an engine dyno. You can put the car on a chassis
dyno. You can use the proven formula below if you have a quarter mile run
and an accurate car weight with you aboard.
Just as an inertial dyno uses mass and acceleration to calculate power, we
can use the vehicle weight, speed and time to calculate this figure:
The magic formula is:
1/4 mile speed in mph, squared, divided by ET in seconds Multiplied by
car
weight in pounds over 1000 Divided by 9.1 = HP.
Example: We have a car which weighs 2000 pounds with driver and it runs a
1/4 mile of 15 seconds at 100 mph.
100 X 100/15 = 666.66
666.66 X 2000/1000 = 1333.32
1333.32/9.1 = 146.52 hp
This formula has proven to be very accurate on a wide variety of vehicles
and represents the drive wheel hp. Notice that speed in the 1/4 mile is the
important factor with regards to power. The ET is less important and
affected considerably by traction, so when your buddy says that he did a 14
second ET, find out what the speed was. He may just have great traction but
not a lot of power.

---

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:22:02 -0500
From: Brian Danley <bcdmad@concentric.net>
Subject: Team3S: NA and Turbo  Street/Race (kinda Long)

I found this very interesting.  It goes along with Bob's comment on
compression and the need to raise it in NA's as opposed to lowering it in
 AA's (abnormally aspirated.. little joke there) forced injection.  This
page is for a fuel and ignition system management product and is real long
but I though this would be some good info.   The site is
http://www.sdsefi.com/tech.html  I hope the Bandwith police don't get me
for this :)

Brian Danley  AKA Gammara #0007

 Intelligent Engine Modifications

 With so much misinformation and BS out there in the performance
aftermarket world, we have
 decided to offer the reader some real tips based on 15 years of
performance engine building and
 turbo charging experience.

 Street or Race?

 This is probably the biggest question related to successful mods and the
most often ignored. Many
 people just don't understand why you can't drive a race spec engine on the
street. Let's examine
 the differences in the 2 different worlds:

 Street

 A good street engine should have a smooth idle, have lots of low end
torque, a wide powerband,
 long life and good fuel economy. To get these characteristics, most street
engines have relatively
 moderate camshaft timing, small turbos, small diameter intake ports with
long runners and usually
 cast pistons. They are designed to run on gasoline with an octane rating
of 87 to 92 RON in most
 cases and usually produce less than 100 hp/liter in naturally aspirated
form and 120 hp/liter in
 turbocharged form

 Race

 Ideally, a good race engine should have all of the same characteristics
that the street engine has
 above but since high power output is one of the primary concerns, many
compromises in those
 other desirable traits must be made to achieve this power level. To
achieve higher power, ports
 are opened up for increased flow at high rpm and camshaft timing and lifts
are increased, both of
 which kill off low rpm torque, power, fuel economy and that smooth idle.

 The rpm capabilities are upped to permit higher airflow rates. This is
usually done by changing to
 stronger parts such as connecting rods, pistons, crankshafts and valve
springs. If the engine is
 turbocharged, a larger turbo and intercooler along with forged pistons and
stronger rods are fitted
 to handle the loads. Raising the redline will not make any more power in
most cases unless
 the engine components are modified to efficiently pass that increased
airflow.

 On naturally aspirated engines, the compression ratio is often raised
substantially to boost torque
 and power. This is possible when using high octane race fuel. On turbo
engines, the compression
 ratio may either be raised or lowered depending upon fuel octane allowed,
maximum boost
 pressure and possible fuel limits for the race.

 As you can see, the two engines vary considerably in requirements and
execution. The problem
 comes in when someone wishes to increase the power output of a street
driven engine beyond
 reasonable limits while expecting no major degradation in "streetable"
qualities.

 Naturally Aspirated Engines for the Street

 On atmo engines for street use, there are only a few ways to substantially
increase airflow and thus
 power.

 Porting the head will improve airflow if done correctly. If the ports and
runners are enlarged
 greatly, low speed torque will suffer considerably.

 Higher duration and lift cams are the main modification for increasing
power. The more duration
 and valve overlap a cam has generally, the worse the low end torque, fuel
economy and idle will
 be. Of course, top end power should be better. On most 4 cylinder engines,
going with more than
 285 degrees of duration at 0 lift will result in truly gutless bottom end
power. With too much cam,
 the effective powerband becomes so narrow that the car is just plain
miserable to drive in traffic.
 Most street engines spend the majority of their time in the 2000-4500 rpm
range. Engines which
 are heavily cammed may not begin to produce substantial gains until above
4500 rpm and you are
 paying for this 95% of the time while being able to enjoy that top end
only 5% of the time. Don't
 overcam!

 Increasing the compression ratio is another way to increase power. It also
increases fuel mileage.
 Unfortunately, the pump fuel available in most areas limits the
compression ratio useable on the
 street to under 10.5 to 1 on most engines. The difference in power is
minimal going from say 9 to
 10.5 to 1 and it is a lot of work to shave the head or install new
pistons. Again, if you get stupid
 and try to run an 11.5 CR on 92 octane fuel, you will suffer with lots of
pinging and eventual
 failure. Many high compression street engines must have their timing
severely retarded to avoid
 detonation which reduces the power right back to stock levels. Don't raise
the compression
 ratio too high!

 Raising the redline to achieve higher airflow through the engine is
another way of increasing power.
 To do this effectively, you will likely need to install a hotter cam with
stiffer valve springs, port the
 head and possibly install stronger bottom end parts like connecting rods.
The factory redline is
 there for a reason. If you exceed it repeatedly by a large margin, you may
eventually have a
 catastrophic failure.

 Installing a header and free flowing exhaust along with a cold air
induction system may free up a
 few more hp on certain engines. Don't expect gains of over 10% with these
mods on most
 engines.

 Nitrous oxide injection is used quite extensively in drag racing for a
substantial power gain. When
 adding large amounts of nitrous, engine components may have to be upgraded
to withstand the
 higher pressures involved. This is not usually a great mod for street use
as everything must be just
 right as far as fuel and nitrous flow goes and of course the major
disadvantage is that the tank runs
 dry after only a few minutes of use and must be refilled.

 Conclusion

 On street driven atmo engines, there are minimal gains to be had on most
small engines without
 sacrificing a lot of driveability. If you need more power, you need a
larger engine usually.
 Expecting your 18 second car to do 13 seconds while retaining good idle
and fuel economy when
 modified is unrealistic most of the time.

 Turbocharged Engines for the Street

 Turbos are a different ball of wax but many of the same mistakes are made
when modifying them.
 Most of the same power increasing methods from above can also be applied
to turbo engines.
 Because turbo engines usually have lower compression ratios than atmo
engines, they do not take
 kindly to hot cams on the street. The gain in top end will almost always
be offset by a huge loss in
 the lower powerband and more turbo lag. Stock cams are the way to go on
most turbo street
 engines. Don't waste your money on so called "turbo cams" for 4 and 6
cylinder engines. These
 may boost economy slightly but they almost always lose power. Most of
these were designed by
 guesswork rather than by actual turbo experience.

 Porting a turbo head will make the same type of gains as on an atmo head
despite what some
 people say. You can make the same power with less boost or more power with
the same boost.

 To obtain higher than stock outputs, the compression ratio should be
LOWERED

 on a street turbo. This will permit higher boost with optimized timing on
low octane fuel. Forged
 pistons are an excellent idea on turbos as they have 2-3 times the
strength and heat dissipation of
 cast pistons. Forged connecting rods, colder spark plugs and stronger head
gaskets are also
 recommended.

 Stock turbos are usually sized for mid range torque and are undersized
even for stock top end
 power. Compressor and turbine size upgrades are needed to realize
substantial power gains.
 Going too large on turbos will lead to poor low end response. Turbos need
to be properly
 matched for the application and primary intended usage. A couple of rules
of thumb can be
 used if you have access to a compressor map. HP X 1.62 = airflow in CFM,
HP divided by 8.07
 = airflow in lbs./min. Avoid matching for efficiencies of under 65% at
full power and operation
 near the surge line also.

 Intercooling is extremely important. Stock intercoolers with a few
exceptions are total crap when
 used for performance applications. They offer low efficiencies and high
pressure drop. Install a
 properly matched core from Spearco. The closer that your charge
temperature is to the
 ambient temperature, the higher the HP potential will be.

 Finally, boost pressures can be raised to increase engine airflow and
power. This can only be
 done within the limitations of the fuel octane rating and ignition timing.
Read the other tech articles
 relating to combustion and fuel for a better understanding. In any case,
running 20 psi on the street
 is relatively meaningless. High boost pressure does not necessarily mean
high HP. If you are
 running this kind of boost on the street, you probably have a host of
mismatched or restrictive
 parts on your engine. With properly matched components and an efficient
intercooler, one
 rarely needs to exceed 15 psi on the street. With these in place, you will
be at the safe
 mechanical limits of most stock based engines and HP will be doubled or
tripled over stock.
 Check out some of the cars on our project page prepared at Racetech if you
don't believe this.
 Since engine life will plummet once you exceed this type of output, it is
not a viable option for most
 people to be rebuilding an engine every 10,000 miles. You don't have a
streetable engine in my
 opinion at this point.

 Conclusion

 Power may be increased substantially through turbocharging on the street
but reliability will suffer
 unless it is applied correctly.

 Turbo Race Engines

 I will use a Toyota 2TC engine which I prepared for road racing use a few
years ago as an
 example of what can be done with properly applied engine modifications and
turbocharging. The
 stock engine starts out as a 1588cc, 2 valve per cylinder, pushrod,
crossflow hemi. The stock hp
 is rated at 70 at 6000 rpm.

 The block was bored out from 85mm to 88mm to fit Mahle VW forged pistons.
This mod brings
 the displacement out to 1702cc and drops the compression ratio from 8.6 to
7.2 to 1. The rest of
 the block is totally stock as is the crankshaft.

 The connecting rods were polished and shotpeened. They were converted to a
full floating pin
 arrangement to suit the new pistons and Ford SPS big block bolts were
fitted to withstand the
 higher anticipated rpms.

 The camshaft selected was the same cam we used on our race atmo 2T engines
with .430 valve
 lift/ 284/222 degrees duration at 0 and .050 lift respectively on 108
degree lobe centers. Valves
 were enlarged from 41 to 44.5mm on the intake via Ford 6 cylinder ones and
from 36 to 38mm
 via Nissan 200SX ones. The head was extensively ported on the flow bench
taking intake flow
 from 82 to 122 cfm and the exhaust from 66 to 86 cfm. Valve guides were
shortened and bronze
 bushed for increased flow and heat dissipation. Exhaust seats were widened
to .080 for better
 heat transfer. Norris triple valve springs and aluminum retainers were
also used.

 A stock oil pump was used and an HKS 1mm metal head gasket was fitted.

 On the externals; A custom, equal length header was made using 1.625 inch
ID thick walled
 tubing , a custom intake manifold was made fitted with a 70mm Mercedes
throttle body and eight
 Bosch 490cc injectors. The turbo was a Garrett TO4 with H-3 compressor and
a .58 turbine.
 This blew through a massive Spearco intercooler measuring 17 X 21 X 3
inches and 2.5 inch
 mandrel bent tubing. The exhaust was 3 inch mandrel bent tubing open. Fuel
was M-85.

 This engine produced 358hp at 7700 rpm at only 15 psi boost. The stock hp
was quintupled!
 Engine life was approximately 6 hours at this power level and about 15
hours at 12 psi and 310hp.
 Eventually, the main bearing caps cracked from the power output but this
was caught before
 major damage occurred. The effective powerband was 5000 up. Redline was
limited to 7700 rpm
 mainly for valvetrain longevity although hp was still increasing at this
point. This engine was used
 for road racing so the life expectancy had to be about a full season or 15
hours.

 Conclusion

 Turbocharged race engines can produce staggering hp numbers given strong
enough parts
 however engine life goes down as power is increased. A narrow powerband
may be acceptable
 on a race engine because close ratio gearboxes are usually fitted to
minimize rpm drop between
 shifts.

 There seems to be two types of people preparing turbo race engines for
import drag racing. One
 school uses small, stock based turbos for quick spool up. These engines
run super high boost but
 don't make any power. School two fits turbos which are way too large.
These have poor turbo
 response and a super narrow powerband. They produce very high hp across
only 1000 rpm on
 the top end and as a result are not very quick. Bigger turbos don't
necessarily mean quicker
 times. Turbos must be properly matched on the compressor as well as the
turbine end.

 Some people really know what they are doing and some don't. 450 hp out of
a 16 valve 1900cc
 Acura drag motor at 25 psi is just not impressive when years ago Jack
Roush was producing in
 excess of 700 hp out of 8 valve 2.3 and 2.5 liter Ford Pinto engines for
road racing events running
 from 2 to 24 hours.

 Engine Displacement

 For street use, you want as many cubic inches as you can get. When I see
people discussing
 installing a 2L SR20DET in place of a 2.4L KA24 in a Nissan 240SX on the
net, I just think,
 huh? You are going to give up 400cc worth of torque. Bad idea guys. Torque
on the street is
 king. Always go for as many cubes as you can if you have a choice of
engines.

 Performance EFI Considerations

 When increasing airflow through your engine for more power, you must also
increase fuel flow to
 match. At some point, the stock injectors and possibly fuel pump will not
supply enough fuel.
 Larger injectors will have to be fitted. As soon as you do this with the
stock ECU, the engine
 will no longer run properly. You will have to either rechip or install a
different EFI system.

 If your engine uses a vane type airflow meter, you are losing a
substantial amount of power
 potential through its restriction. It is foolish to spend a lot of time
and money improving engine
 airflow, then strangling it with a door type meter on the front. Engines
fitted with this type of meter
 will usually gain at least 10% when changed to a large hot wire or
speed/density type system. It is
 important to note that when the airflow flap bottoms out at high airflow
rates, it is no
 longer capable of sending a proper signal to the ECU. The fuel mixture
will no longer be
 correct.

 Some companies offer rising rate fuel pressure regulators with their turbo
kits to allow increased
 injector flow rate over stock pressure. Instead of adding 1 psi of fuel
pressure per psi of boost as
 in a conventional FPR, they will ramp up at 2-5 psi per psi of boost. Some
of these work OK at
 low boost but the fuel delivery curve is now in the hands of a mechanical
device, not the ECU.
 This is crude at best. It takes 4 times the fuel pressure to double the
fuel flow. If your stock fuel
 pressure is 45 psi, you will need 180 psi to double your fuel flow.

 Two things happen here. First, many injectors become non-linear in fuel
delivery above 60-70 psi
 differential or may not even open, leading to a possible lean out
condition under boost. Secondly,
 the fuel pump is not designed to do this. It either can't produce the
pressure or volume needed or
 will burn out quickly due to the massive increase in current draw. These
are a bad idea at high
 boost pressures.

 Conclusion

 Use the right tool for the job. You don't normally use pliers to turn a
screw in. It works, but not
 well. The same thing goes for performance EFI applications. Sure, you can
trick an old L-Jetronic
 system with a resistor on the water temp input and get some more fuel out
of the system but the
 method has serious limitations past a point and will not really supply the
correct mixture across the
 operating range.

 Hopefully I have touched on some of the major points here and saved you
some money and time
 on your project.

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:11:53 -0500
From: Michael Booker <mrbook@gate.net>
Subject: Team3S: Bolt-on mods for a non-turbo.

First off, thanks to all who who helped with the g-force question, and
i'm glad i didn't sink 700 dollars into one. I don't have the money for
a professional polishing/porting job, But i am loking to do it in the
future with DPR valves and springs, as well as cams and the whole 9
yards, as i am gonna do it right at once. In the meantime, Are there
bolt-on aftermarket ignition Systems available? I have some old posts on
how to advance the timing, so i might try that as well as the ignition,
if one is available.

Matt
3/Si #311
P.S. that turbo-zet system some mentioned is coming out with a twin
blower system for around 450 u.s. dollars. They are going to send me
info when it becomes available, and if you are interested, email me and
i'll keep you informed.
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------------------------------

End of Team3S Digest V1 #59
***************************

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