--
From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #57
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To:
owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence:
bulk
Team3S Digest Saturday,
December 26 1998 Volume 01 : Number
057
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:47:29 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: plug gap
> In a nutshell, I won't recommend anything other
than what the manual
> states for an NT, and won't even touch the TT
issue.
Yeah, put if we increase boost we already touched the TT issue
:)
I agree with you on the NT side and would recommend to keep it as it
is if no
more MAJOR mods will be done to the car. 0.042 - 0.045 is
fine.
For the TT it depends on the mods, fuel, gaps, etc. Running the
good NGK
Platinums, with boost around 1.00bars a gap of 0.034 is enough. The
higher the
boost somewhat smaller the gap. An earlier consensus I remember of
is running at
1.2bars a gap around 0.028 is a good value.
-
-----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo
(Animale Rosso)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:56:48 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject:
Team3S: Blitz DSBC online manual
Hey friends,
I got many messages
the last week with people asking about the DSBC and how to
tune it in. Well,
Mikael and me where about the first guys that used this thing
in a 3000GT and
we tuned it in with a japanese manual and the help of Chien from
Nexus who
installed it in his DSM car.
It seems that Blitz will never improove
their "brochure" like manual and I
decided to create a web-page with all the
pics and steps for tuning in the
stuff. Of course, it is not finalized yet
and it only consists of how to set
limiter, Gain and Ratio. There are still
some deeper explanations necessary but
I'm currently not sure if this is good
for a newbie as well as for the pro. I
just want to be sure to go the right
way.
I'd highly appreciate if you guys could have a short look at this
"not official"
site and give me your comment on the easyness or hardness for
understanding the
stuff I wrote down. It is my intention to help the people
who are not that
familiar with the stuff and are not that skilled to do the
installation by
themselfes. Unfortunately, almost every dealer who installed
the DSBC was not
able to tell if it is working or not. Therefore they did not
know how to tune it
in. So how should the user know then ??
Please
have a look at :
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/dbsc_manual.html
Please
excuse the &%%ç GeoCities stuff but I'll move to another server
soon.
Thanks in advance for any feedback,
Roger
-
-----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo
(Animale Rosso)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:35:59 -0500
From: "Bob Rand" <rtr@vnet.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Blitz
DSBC online manual
Great page Roger, Much needed info on this
product.
- -----Original Message-----
From: R.G. <robby@swissonline.ch>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date:
Thursday, December 24, 1998 7:00 AM
Subject: Team3S: Blitz DSBC online
manual
>I got many messages the last week with people asking about
the DSBC and how
to
>tune it in
>http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/dbsc_manual.html
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 24 Dec 1998 09:14:15 -0800
From: "Dave Allison" <dallison@siebel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Are the racing unothodox pulleys any good?
Here is what
Unorthodox Racing has to say on the subject. Your
results may vary, of
course:
2) "Isn't my crank/eccentric pulley a harmonic/torsional or
vibrational
damper ?"
The factory pulleys on late model cars (from
1986 to Present, sometimes
earlier depending on the vehicle) serve two
functions. First, they are
designed to reduce the noises the accessories make
when the engine is
running. This is due to the factory fanaticism about
making a quiet car for
the occupants, it has nothing to do with engine
function.
The second function of late model crank pulleys is torsional
damping.
Torsional damping is necessary due to the excessive diameter and
weight of
the factory crank pulleys. The design of our crank pulleys
eliminates the
need for any torsional damping for two reasons: a) the
diameter of our crank
pulleys is smaller than the original designs, therefore
effectively reducing
the force the accessories have on the crankshaft, b)
most importantly, our
pulleys are significantly lighter than their OEM
counterparts (anywhere from
3 to 10 lbs.).
Lastly, the misconception
that the crank pulleys on these vehicles are
harmonic dampers. A harmonic
damper is a unit bolted to the crankshaft snout
that is completely separate
from the belt drive system. An engine that uses
a harmonic damper has the
accessory drive crank pulley bolted to it, they
are completely separate
pieces that are rarely attached to each other. None
of the vehicles we
manufacture pulleys for have harmonic dampers.
It is important for
owners who have engines that use balance shafts to
understand that if they
eliminate their balance shafts they must have their
engines balanced to 0
grams if they plan to purchase or continue to use our
crank pulleys . Our
pulleys are almost perfectly balanced. 6061 is a very
consistent material and
the CNC machining process ensures that our pulleys
are perfectly true.
So there ya have it... I'm not sure WHAT to think now. :o
-
--------------------------------------
Dave Allison
Network
Engineer
Siebel Systems, Inc.
- -----Original
Message-----
From: xwing [mailto:xwing@execpc.com]
Sent: Wednesday,
December 23, 1998 9:15 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Re: Team3S: [Fwd: Re: Are the racing unothodox pulleys
any
good?]
Dennis Moore wrote:
> Thanks for the tome on the
pulleys-as-dampeners. That leads to another
> question or
two.
> Isn't the dynamic balancing done on the crankshaft sufficient to
dampen
> the vibrations?
No. That is important: BALANCE
of a crankshaft system does not mean it
has no HARMONICS. An imbalance
leads to vibration, the magnitude of
which a function of the amount (mass) of
imbalance, the RPM of the
crank, and the moment of inertia of the imbalance
(farther away from
crank centerline leads to more vibration
amplitude).
HARMONICS is a function of rpm, elastic modulus
etc...stiffer/shorter
has higher frequency harmonics than a longer/"looser"
less rigid
system. It can be in perfect balance, but hit it with a
hammer and it
still RINGS!
> Would it be accurate to describe the
pulleys as a "flywheel"? Is there
> any kind of inertial energy
storage/recovery involved here?
The Unorthodox Racing Pulleys are not
harmonic dampeners, they are
simple pulleys. As a mass spinning along
with the crank, they also
serve to store some energy (as does the stock
harmonic dampener) so YES,
they also act in part as a flywheel...but with low
mass/low diameter,
not a whole LOT of flywheel energy compared to the actual
flyweel on the
BACK of the engine.
> Thanks. Dennis
Moore
No probs! Maybe we have some mechanical engieer/physics wonks
who can
delve into harmonics more accurately than I...
Jack
Tertadian
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:22:42 EST
From: LotoBoost@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Re:
Are the racing unothodox pulleys any good?
Although I can't
be positive the Unorthodox pulley is 100% liable, I know a
Stealth tt and a
VR4 that have had bearing/crank failure after running the
Unorthodox crank
pulley. I personally decided against one for the reasons
Jack pointed
out below (even though they DO make a noticible difference
in
power).
TTYLater,
Mike Mahaffey
'94 Stealth tt
Best et:
11.6 Best mph: 121.58
In a message dated 98-12-23 11:36:07 EST, you
write:
<< Joshua wrote:
Unorthodox Underdrive
Pulleys:
> I have heard some people say they aren't any good and
other say they are
> great. Any info would be greatly
appreciated.
I would not get one. Though they are a
PULLEY, they are not any longer
HARMONIC DAMPENERS. The original
purpose of that heavy disc on the
front of all car engines is as a
harmonic dampener; Mitsu just added a
serpentine belt pulley on its
outside aspect as a space-saving effort,
so it does 2 functions at
once. The original and more important
function is still dampening
crankshaft harmonics.
A crank is a long, rigid metal
shape; if you tap with a hammer it
"rings" (especially forged cranks;
cast cranks have some internal
dampening). So what? Well, a
hammer hitting it is only ONE way to
cause the crank to RESONATE and
exhibit harmonic VIBRATIONS. Another
way is to RUN the
engine! The engine is a vibration factory (as we all
know)...and
if left undamped, crank harmonics can build up at certain
(harmonic)
rpms and these vibrations DON'T just disappear, they have to
be
DISSIPATED! The best way to dissipate them is via
the
SPECIFICALLY-DESIGNED-TO-DO-THIS "Harmonic Dampener" hanging off
the
front of the crank. It has an elastomeric (rubber) isolator
between the
hub and the HEAVY outer ring, and is as a unit, designed to
damp
harmonics at the critical frequencies seen by the crank.
The heavier the outer ring, the better it damps, and the
higher its
efficiency at damping. NASCAR LONGtrack engines use
HEAVY dampeners, to
allow the bearings to live the long race length;
the shorter the race,
the more often the bearings get changed (after
EVERY RACE), the LIGHTER
a dampener can be used because lighter is a
little faster to accelerate
the engine due to lower rotational
inertia. You are trading
bearing/crank life for speed.
Where do YOU want to go on this? Are
you
lucky?
The OTHER way to damp harmonic energy
(which MUST GO SOMEWHERE) is
through the main bearings, into the main
bearing saddles on the BLOCK.
This can cause premature
wear/fatigue/flaking of main bearings, and
cracks in the main bearing
saddles on the block. This is a poor
tradeoff for "an underdrive
pulley".
Does this ALWAYS happen? No. Some people
may not push their cars very
hard very often; some may not do longtrack
racing; some may not keep
their cars long enough to discover the
bearing wear, or to crack
anything; the underlying design may be robust
enough to cover over this
MISTAKE in parts selection. There is a
pretty big industry in harmonic
dampeners, different TECHNIQUES for
dampening (Fluidampr, ATI, BHJ, "The
Rattler", etc) but they ALL DAMPEN
HARMONICS because it is important.
There may be some FREQUENTLY
REBUILT race engines (?CART) that are not
using dampeners but IF you
think their ENGINEERS have not taken crank
harmonics into account in
their multi-multimillion dollar engine design,
THEN there are worthless
bridges to be sold to you...and foolish
pennywise-pound foolish _NON
DAMPENING_ "PULLEYS" to be sold.
As a person who comes to
the hobby from an enginebuilder's standpoint
(not sales/driver/etc)
this misinformation about "you don't need a
dampener" or when that
fails "our unorthodox pulley does the same thing"
is sad. It gets
down to this. Do ya feel lucky? Well, do ya...?
[Clint
would say "punk" but that isn't my direction, just a good line
:) ] This is an insult to your engine's health. It
MAY take it in
stride; but it is an offense. I respect my
hardworking engine too much
to burden it with the sometimes insane
levels of harmonics that can
occur without harmonic dampener
protection. Where else are you going to
cut corners? What
other basic enginebuilding good practices is one
going to spit on, and
WHICH will be the straw that breaks the
camel's
back...eventually?
Jack
Tertadian
This is a hotbutton issue with me. I never thought
having a harmonic
dampener would be considered "conservative
enginebuilding" by
some...geez.
ps if anyone is
interested in a REAL HARMONIC DAMPENER with underdrive
for our cars, I
am looking into having some made, because NHRA rules
require an
SFI-approved harmonic balancer for cars going into the 11's.
With all
the IDRA etc drag groups out there using NHRA tracks, better to
be
legal BEFORE someone challenges it/you and disqualifies you... >>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 24 Dec 1998 14:42:20 -0500
From: Brian <bcdmad@concentric.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Blitz DSBC online manual
Looks great! I remember when I
put mine in and we talked about the setting
via email (that was a adventure
experimenting). It's hard to figure out
how to explain the gain
setting. I found that the gain will increase boost
over and is like a
base line setting. But more over the gain will increase
the spool-up
speed. I changed mine from 45 to 50 and found little change
in peak
boost but a big change in spike/spool-up. I think you have nailed
the
concepts in the web page very well.
Also you need to change
"live-saver" to "life-saver". You must have a
great spell checker cause
there were no spelling errors (I'm the worst
speller there is so I know what
a feat that is and having dyslexia and no
spell check makes my post a real
experience to read.
Oh yea you might also note that when setting the DSBC
that a run in third
gear at WOT is needed. If not they'll be suprised
at there values in the
first race they have :)
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
93
VR-4
# 0007
Tampa/Orlando FL
"He who laughs last ... thinks
slowest"
______________________________________
Email Brian_Danley@parsons.com
bcdmad@concentric.net
Homepage http://www.concentric.net/~bcdmad
______________________________________
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 24 Dec 1998 17:17:33 -0500
From: "Meyer" <meyer2@erols.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Happy Holidays from Accelerated Accessories
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Happy Hannukah(belated), Merry Christmas, Happy Kwansa
and Joy to any =
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Accelerated =
Accessories become a reality.
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------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:19:11 -0500
From: "Williamson, Jeff A" <Jeff.A.Williamson@JCI.Com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Plug Gap
Todd,
I just installed a new set of stock NGK
plugs and Magnecor wires. I also
have HKS filters, HKS exhaust, and an HKS
boost controller. I gapped the
plugs at .032 and have had good results. The
engine cutout that I was
getting before at about 15 psi disappeared. I have
no trouble running it up
to 16 psi now (only for short durations).
I also
noticed an increase in boost pressure achieved with the same
settings on my
boost controller before the new plugs and wires. I'm not
quite sure the
reason for this, but I'm giving the new plugs and gap
the
credit.
Jeff.
Belleville, MI
'92 VR4
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------------------------------
End
of Team3S Digest V1 #57
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