--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #57
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest       Saturday, December 26 1998       Volume 01 : Number 057




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:47:29 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: plug gap

> In a nutshell, I won't recommend anything other than what the manual
> states for an NT, and won't even touch the TT issue.

Yeah, put if we increase boost we already touched the TT issue :)

I agree with you on the NT side and would recommend to keep it as it is if no
more MAJOR mods will be done to the car. 0.042 - 0.045 is fine.

For the TT it depends on the mods, fuel, gaps, etc. Running the good NGK
Platinums, with boost around 1.00bars a gap of 0.034 is enough. The higher the
boost somewhat smaller the gap. An earlier consensus I remember of is running at
1.2bars a gap around 0.028 is a good value.

- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:56:48 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Team3S: Blitz DSBC online manual

Hey friends,

I got many messages the last week with people asking about the DSBC and how to
tune it in. Well, Mikael and me where about the first guys that used this thing
in a 3000GT and we tuned it in with a japanese manual and the help of Chien from
Nexus who installed it in his DSM car.

It seems that Blitz will never improove their "brochure" like manual and I
decided to create a web-page with all the pics and steps for tuning in the
stuff. Of course, it is not finalized yet and it only consists of how to set
limiter, Gain and Ratio. There are still some deeper explanations necessary but
I'm currently not sure if this is good for a newbie as well as for the pro. I
just want to be sure to go the right way.

I'd highly appreciate if you guys could have a short look at this "not official"
site and give me your comment on the easyness or hardness for understanding the
stuff I wrote down. It is my intention to help the people who are not that
familiar with the stuff and are not that skilled to do the installation by
themselfes. Unfortunately, almost every dealer who installed the DSBC was not
able to tell if it is working or not. Therefore they did not know how to tune it
in. So how should the user know then ??

Please have a look at :
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/dbsc_manual.html

Please excuse the &%% GeoCities stuff but I'll move to another server soon.

Thanks in advance for any feedback,
Roger

- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:35:59 -0500
From: "Bob Rand" <rtr@vnet.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Blitz DSBC online manual

Great page Roger,  Much needed info on this product.


- -----Original Message-----
From: R.G. <robby@swissonline.ch>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Thursday, December 24, 1998 7:00 AM
Subject: Team3S: Blitz DSBC online manual


>I got many messages the last week with people asking about the DSBC and how
to
>tune it in

>http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/dbsc_manual.html


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 09:14:15 -0800
From: "Dave Allison" <dallison@siebel.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Are the racing unothodox pulleys any good?

Here is what Unorthodox Racing has to say on the subject. Your
results may vary, of course:


2) "Isn't my crank/eccentric pulley a harmonic/torsional or vibrational
damper ?"

The factory pulleys on late model cars (from 1986 to Present, sometimes
earlier depending on the vehicle) serve two functions. First, they are
designed to reduce the noises the accessories make when the engine is
running. This is due to the factory fanaticism about making a quiet car for
the occupants, it has nothing to do with engine function.

The second function of late model crank pulleys is torsional damping.
Torsional damping is necessary due to the excessive diameter and weight of
the factory crank pulleys. The design of our crank pulleys eliminates the
need for any torsional damping for two reasons: a) the diameter of our crank
pulleys is smaller than the original designs, therefore effectively reducing
the force the accessories have on the crankshaft, b) most importantly, our
pulleys are significantly lighter than their OEM counterparts (anywhere from
3 to 10 lbs.).

Lastly, the misconception that the crank pulleys on these vehicles are
harmonic dampers. A harmonic damper is a unit bolted to the crankshaft snout
that is completely separate from the belt drive system. An engine that uses
a harmonic damper has the accessory drive crank pulley bolted to it, they
are completely separate pieces that are rarely attached to each other. None
of the vehicles we manufacture pulleys for have harmonic dampers.

It is important for owners who have engines that use balance shafts to
understand that if they eliminate their balance shafts they must have their
engines balanced to 0 grams if they plan to purchase or continue to use our
crank pulleys . Our pulleys are almost perfectly balanced. 6061 is a very
consistent material and the CNC machining process ensures that our pulleys
are perfectly true.


So there ya have it... I'm not sure WHAT to think now. :o

- --------------------------------------
Dave Allison
Network Engineer
Siebel Systems, Inc.




- -----Original Message-----
From: xwing [mailto:xwing@execpc.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 9:15 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: [Fwd: Re: Are the racing unothodox pulleys any
good?]


Dennis Moore wrote:
> Thanks for the tome on the pulleys-as-dampeners.  That leads to another
> question or two.
> Isn't the dynamic balancing done on the crankshaft sufficient to dampen
> the vibrations?

No.  That is important:  BALANCE of a crankshaft system does not mean it
has no HARMONICS.  An imbalance leads to vibration, the magnitude of
which a function of the amount (mass) of imbalance, the RPM of the
crank, and the moment of inertia of the imbalance (farther away from
crank centerline leads to more vibration amplitude).

HARMONICS is a function of rpm, elastic modulus etc...stiffer/shorter
has higher frequency harmonics than a longer/"looser" less rigid
system.  It can be in perfect balance, but hit it with a hammer and it
still RINGS!

> Would it be accurate to describe the pulleys as a "flywheel"?  Is there
> any kind of inertial energy storage/recovery involved here?

The Unorthodox Racing Pulleys are not harmonic dampeners, they are
simple pulleys.  As a mass spinning along with the crank, they also
serve to store some energy (as does the stock harmonic dampener) so YES,
they also act in part as a flywheel...but with low mass/low diameter,
not a whole LOT of flywheel energy compared to the actual flyweel on the
BACK of the engine.
 
> Thanks.  Dennis Moore

No probs!  Maybe we have some mechanical engieer/physics wonks who can
delve into harmonics more accurately than I...
Jack Tertadian
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:22:42 EST
From: LotoBoost@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Re: Are the racing unothodox pulleys any good?

   Although I can't be positive the Unorthodox pulley is 100% liable, I know a
Stealth tt and a VR4 that have had bearing/crank failure after running the
Unorthodox crank pulley.  I personally decided against one for the reasons
Jack pointed out below (even though they DO make a noticible difference in
power).

TTYLater,
Mike Mahaffey
'94 Stealth tt
Best et: 11.6 Best mph: 121.58


In a message dated 98-12-23 11:36:07 EST, you write:

<< Joshua wrote:
 Unorthodox Underdrive Pulleys:
 > I have heard some people say they aren't any good and other say they are
 > great.  Any info would be greatly appreciated.
 
 I would not get one.  Though they are a PULLEY, they are not any longer
 HARMONIC DAMPENERS.  The original purpose of that heavy disc on the
 front of all car engines is as a harmonic dampener; Mitsu just added a
 serpentine belt pulley on its outside aspect as a space-saving effort,
 so it does 2 functions at once.  The original and more important
 function is still dampening crankshaft harmonics. 
 
 A crank is a long, rigid metal shape; if you tap with a hammer it
 "rings" (especially forged cranks; cast cranks have some internal
 dampening).  So what?  Well, a hammer hitting it is only ONE way to
 cause the crank to RESONATE and exhibit harmonic VIBRATIONS.  Another
 way is to RUN the engine!  The engine is a vibration factory (as we all
 know)...and if left undamped, crank harmonics can build up at certain
 (harmonic) rpms and these vibrations DON'T just disappear, they have to
 be DISSIPATED!  The best way to dissipate them is via the
 SPECIFICALLY-DESIGNED-TO-DO-THIS "Harmonic Dampener" hanging off the
 front of the crank.  It has an elastomeric (rubber) isolator between the
 hub and the HEAVY outer ring, and is as a unit, designed to damp
 harmonics at the critical frequencies seen by the crank. 
 
 The heavier the outer ring, the better it damps, and the higher its
 efficiency at damping.  NASCAR LONGtrack engines use HEAVY dampeners, to
 allow the bearings to live the long race length; the shorter the race,
 the more often the bearings get changed (after EVERY RACE), the LIGHTER
 a dampener can be used because lighter is a little faster to accelerate
 the engine due to lower rotational inertia.  You are trading
 bearing/crank life for speed.  Where do YOU want to go on this?  Are you
 lucky?
 
 The OTHER way to damp harmonic energy (which MUST GO SOMEWHERE) is
 through the main bearings, into the main bearing saddles on the BLOCK.
 This can cause premature wear/fatigue/flaking of main bearings, and
 cracks in the main bearing saddles on the block.  This is a poor
 tradeoff for "an underdrive pulley".
 
 Does this ALWAYS happen?  No.  Some people may not push their cars very
 hard very often; some may not do longtrack racing; some may not keep
 their cars long enough to discover the bearing wear, or to crack
 anything; the underlying design may be robust enough to cover over this
 MISTAKE in parts selection.  There is a pretty big industry in harmonic
 dampeners, different TECHNIQUES for dampening (Fluidampr, ATI, BHJ, "The
 Rattler", etc) but they ALL DAMPEN HARMONICS because it is important.
 There may be some FREQUENTLY REBUILT race engines (?CART) that are not
 using dampeners but IF you think their ENGINEERS have not taken crank
 harmonics into account in their multi-multimillion dollar engine design,
 THEN there are worthless bridges to be sold to you...and foolish
 pennywise-pound foolish _NON DAMPENING_ "PULLEYS" to be sold.
 
 As a person who comes to the hobby from an enginebuilder's standpoint
 (not sales/driver/etc) this misinformation about "you don't need a
 dampener" or when that fails "our unorthodox pulley does the same thing"
 is sad.  It gets down to this.  Do ya feel lucky?  Well, do ya...?
 [Clint would say "punk" but that isn't my direction, just a good line
 :)  ]  This is an insult to your engine's health.  It MAY take it in
 stride; but it is an offense.  I respect my hardworking engine too much
 to burden it with the sometimes insane levels of harmonics that can
 occur without harmonic dampener protection.  Where else are you going to
 cut corners?  What other basic enginebuilding good practices is one
 going to spit on, and WHICH will be the straw that breaks the camel's
 back...eventually?
 
 Jack Tertadian
 This is a hotbutton issue with me.  I never thought having a harmonic
 dampener would be considered "conservative enginebuilding" by
 some...geez.
 
 ps if anyone is interested in a REAL HARMONIC DAMPENER with underdrive
 for our cars, I am looking into having some made, because NHRA rules
 require an SFI-approved harmonic balancer for cars going into the 11's.
 With all the IDRA etc drag groups out there using NHRA tracks, better to
 be legal BEFORE someone challenges it/you and disqualifies you... >>
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 14:42:20 -0500
From: Brian <bcdmad@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Blitz DSBC online manual

Looks great!  I remember when I put mine in and we talked about the setting
via email (that was a adventure experimenting).  It's hard to figure out
how to explain the gain setting.  I found that the gain will increase boost
over and is like a base line setting.  But more over the gain will increase
the spool-up speed.  I changed mine from 45 to 50 and found little change
in peak boost but a big change in spike/spool-up.  I think you have nailed
the concepts in the web page very well. 
Also you need to change "live-saver" to "life-saver".  You must have a
great spell checker cause there were no spelling errors (I'm the worst
speller there is so I know what a feat that is and having dyslexia and no
spell check makes my post a real experience to read.
Oh yea you might also note that when setting the DSBC that a run in third
gear at WOT is needed.  If not they'll be suprised at there values in the
first race they have :)
 
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http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

93 VR-4
# 0007
Tampa/Orlando FL

"He who laughs last ... thinks slowest"

______________________________________
Email Brian_Danley@parsons.com
bcdmad@concentric.net

Homepage http://www.concentric.net/~bcdmad
______________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 17:17:33 -0500
From: "Meyer" <meyer2@erols.com>
Subject: Team3S: Happy Holidays from Accelerated Accessories

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Happy Hannukah(belated), Merry Christmas, Happy Kwansa and Joy to any =
other celebrants out there.  Many thanks for helping Accelerated =
Accessories become a reality.

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:19:11 -0500
From: "Williamson, Jeff A" <Jeff.A.Williamson@JCI.Com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Plug Gap

Todd,

I just installed a new set of stock NGK plugs and Magnecor wires. I also
have HKS filters, HKS exhaust, and an HKS boost controller. I gapped the
plugs at .032 and have had good results. The engine cutout that I was
getting before at about 15 psi disappeared. I have no trouble running it up
to 16 psi now (only for short durations).
I also noticed an increase in boost pressure achieved with the same
settings on my boost controller before the new plugs and wires. I'm not
quite sure the reason for this, but I'm giving the new plugs and gap the
credit.

Jeff.
Belleville, MI
'92 VR4


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------------------------------

End of Team3S Digest V1 #57
***************************

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