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From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #52
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
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Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest        Sunday, December 20 1998        Volume 01 : Number 052




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Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 14:08:24 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: AWD on ice (very long)

> > Don't tell me this ... AWD rules ... but in turns, whooo !
>
> What do you mean by that Roger?  AWD is good on ice?
>
> I was in New Jersey a couple of winters ago.  I had Goodyear GSC 275x40x17
> tires.  They absolutely STUNK on snow and ice.  Even at 10 MPH, if I lightly
> applied the brakes, the car would slide for 50 or 60 yards.  Lucky I didn't
> crash into anything or end up in the ditch.  I assume that I needed snow
> radials?  Driving lessons?

I just came home from Munich and had to drive through the forest close to my
hometown. Infront of me was a car only doing about 50km/h where I normally drive
around 100km/h. I then started to overtake him and when I hit the gas I felt how
the rear started to swing out. But very fast the power was transfered and I felt
the grip comming back from the front. Of course I had to steer against the way
the car acted but it was more funny than dangerous. I have the german snow
radials from Continental on the stock wheels (235/45-17). On normal streets the
understeer into a curve and oversteering in the curve is much more noticeable
and I always have to change my driving style in winter (sure, hehe). On icey
streets they are very good as it seems that the threads are well designed. Also
on snow the traction is ok for this huge winter-tire size (original made for
Porsche, M3 and Mercedes AMG), much better than the Uniroyals I had before.
Alsdo hydroplaning is not that critical as it was with earlier tires.

For now I don't speak of braking :)

I took both my cars to the driving school this year where we have a special
gliding street. With the Camaro I had soooo much trouble to make the course
savely without hitting an orange plastic thing (ahem, don't know the name ?). We
have two different gliding streets, one is bone flat and the other is a curve
and hangs out only a few degrees. The Z28 immediatly flipped out at the rear and
the oversteer was very hard to be controlled. Even on the flat street the Z
always tended to brake out in the rear. Of course, the big tourque, weight and
RWD where a problem here. On the curve course it was not to bad as the car only
broke loose to one side and I could manage the situation savely. I had to use
this experince on the Autobahn with 10cm of fresh snow and frozen bridge. It
safed the life of the Camaro for sure !

The 3k handeld much better and was very neutral on the flat course. When I made
a fast reaction with the steering wheel the car immediatly turned the back to
the the other side. Stepping slightly onto the gas with steering only a little
(very important !) to the other side brought me back to the desired line. Also a
Cherokee and a Range Rover made their job very good too. The badiest car was ...
a F355. With its concept the car has it's turning bas in the middle of the car
and once it runned out of the line the driver had no chance to get it back. It
was funny to see a Ferrary spinning 4 times. Also a Subaru AWD had problems as
it seemed that his AWD was locked in some way. We increased speed more and more
to see where the car started to change its behaivour and the 3K started to
understeer very quick with only a little more speed. But with only a little
steering the wheels where able to have some of the grip that lasted without
going into gliding. When the front went off, we had to play with the clutch and
the brake to get it back. Nedless to say that I turned many times too until I
managed it more or less. On the course with the turn. The 3K acted the same way.
When I was too fast, the car understeered havely and I was able to get it back
by pressing the clutch and trying to brake and steering into the curve. When I
was slow and hit the gas ... the whole car went out the track. No understeer as
with FWD and no oversteer as with RWD, just the whole car runned sideways out.
This was interesting as I expected that the 55% on the rear will give me some
oversteer tha I can handle. No way. When an AWD car brakes loose in the front
and the rear ... just hit the brakes. I then tried to press the clutch and
giving more steer but the front wheels glided and I was not of much luck. The M3
and the F355 as well the Jag (with traction control) made it good. Me too, but
it took much longer :)

Braking is another story. The winter tires are definitely better on the cold
streets as they stay softer on the lower temperatures. On wet/icey streets as
well as on snow. But if the conditions are bad (and they can be very quick in or
after one curve) then only hitting the brakes and steering a little is the way
that works. If steering too much the front wheels start to glide with or without
ABS (I pulled the fuse to check out). The rule is trying to keep the fronts
having always some grip (there's always a little left). Then the ABS can do it's
work good and you'll be somewhat safer as you'll be able to go away from
trouble. In braking, the weight of the cars and the condition of the tires are
very important. The worst car was a Mustang with somewhat worn summer tires, the
best car was an older BMW 318i that was very controllable even without ABS, no
traction control. But he had small, good winter tires with a good tread on the
shoulder. We gave the driver a big thumbs up !

The rule is to have the appropriate tires for the right season. But this all
does not help if your too fast. As you said 10mph can be too fast. I was in 2nd
gear at 1600 and the car just wanted to show me the opposite street. For the
experience it's very good to have this tested on a small course with gliding
streets and curve-distance measuring with the help of an expert. I highly
recommend such classes for EVERY driver !

Last but not least a short story about the woman that drove a Saab convertible.
"It MUST handle good on snow as it comes from nothern Europe" she said in the
morning. "My car can't do this..." she said 2hs later. The instructor took her
car drove through the course like an animal and came back. The lady had no more
blood in her face looked at the car with almost burnt tires and said "Never
treat my car like this".... But she did too at the end of the day :)

Take care and drive safe,
Roger

- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 10:30:20 -0500 (EST)
From: JEEPers <fxc9364@megahertz.njit.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: battery

Is  this the Exide one?????



On Fri, 18 Dec 1998 wce@bc.sympatico.ca wrote:

>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My headlights are noticably dimmer at idle.  If I blip the throttle,
>>> they brighten up and then gradually dim back down.  The car still turns
>>> over nice and strong, but I can't help but wonder if my original 1994
>>> battery is on its last legs.
>>
>>Jim, this sounds as if it might be alternator rather than battery. My battery just
>>wouldn't hold much of a charge when it was on it's last legs, and if I let the car sit a
>>few days, it wouldn't be able to turn it over. In other vehicles, I have found that
>>dimming of headlights usually involved the charging system (alternator) which in turn
>>led to battery failure/discarge. Have that checked as well. As for batteries...I went
>>with the NASCAR heavy duty sucker (heavier plates etc) and so far it has been absolutely
>>great...made for race cars!
>>
>>Best
>>
>>Darc
>>
>>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>>


      Frank
                    -JEEPers-
"Kung-Fu Forrest"

MY WEB PAGE IS UP AT http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Canyon/6045/

"Jeep is America's only real sports car"     Mr. Enzo Ferrari

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 08:27:18 -0800
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Team3S: battery

Frank;

Yep, it's Excide ... EXIDE NASCAR SELECT 835...race proven, 84 month total warranty, 2 year
free replacement. Thus far, a real good battery....but then they all seem great when new. If I
have any problems I will post on it, but I don't anticipate any with the developement and
testing that was done on it.

Best

Darc

92 TT Stealth  40 k kms,  #145

JEEPers wrote:

> Is  this the Exide one?????
>
> On Fri, 18 Dec 1998 wce@bc.sympatico.ca wrote:
>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> My headlights are noticably dimmer at idle.  If I blip the throttle,
> >>> they brighten up and then gradually dim back down.  The car still turns
> >>> over nice and strong, but I can't help but wonder if my original 1994
> >>> battery is on its last legs.
> >>
> >>Jim, this sounds as if it might be alternator rather than battery. My battery just
> >>wouldn't hold much of a charge when it was on it's last legs, and if I let the car sit a
> >>few days, it wouldn't be able to turn it over. In other vehicles, I have found that
> >>dimming of headlights usually involved the charging system (alternator) which in turn
> >>led to battery failure/discarge. Have that checked as well. As for batteries...I went
> >>with the NASCAR heavy duty sucker (heavier plates etc) and so far it has been absolutely
> >>great...made for race cars!
> >>
> >>Best
> >>
> >>Darc
> >>
> >>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
> >>
>
>                                                       Frank
>                                                     -JEEPers-
>                                                  "Kung-Fu Forrest"
>
>         MY WEB PAGE IS UP AT http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Canyon/6045/
>
>         "Jeep is America's only real sports car"     Mr. Enzo Ferrari
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm



For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 11:33:52 -0800
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Team3S: Merry Christmas

Yo Team

 The very best of the season to all you Stealthaholics out there. Try
not to mix spirits and driving, and if you do, don't drive.

Darc

admin, Team 3S

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 18:15:09 -0500 (EST)
From: JEEPers <fxc9364@megahertz.njit.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: battery

I had "blew apart" 2 Ac-Delco battery on my mom's Cherokee.  The acid
started leaking out the side terminal even though the Jeep uses top
posts.  I plan to switch to the Exide and get a new alternator since I
already had the starter changed on my momo's cherokee. 

ob 3KGT: The Ac-Delco on my bro's VR-4 is still good and running strong.



On Sat, 19 Dec 1998 wce@bc.sympatico.ca wrote:

>>Frank;
>>
>>Yep, it's Excide ... EXIDE NASCAR SELECT 835...race proven, 84 month total warranty, 2 year
>>free replacement. Thus far, a real good battery....but then they all seem great when new. If I
>>have any problems I will post on it, but I don't anticipate any with the developement and
>>testing that was done on it.
>>
>>Best
>>
>>Darc
>>
>>92 TT Stealth  40 k kms,  #145
>>
>>JEEPers wrote:
>>
>>> Is  this the Exide one?????
>>>
>>> On Fri, 18 Dec 1998 wce@bc.sympatico.ca wrote:
>>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> My headlights are noticably dimmer at idle.  If I blip the throttle,
>>> >>> they brighten up and then gradually dim back down.  The car still turns
>>> >>> over nice and strong, but I can't help but wonder if my original 1994
>>> >>> battery is on its last legs.
>>> >>
>>> >>Jim, this sounds as if it might be alternator rather than battery. My battery just
>>> >>wouldn't hold much of a charge when it was on it's last legs, and if I let the car sit a
>>> >>few days, it wouldn't be able to turn it over. In other vehicles, I have found that
>>> >>dimming of headlights usually involved the charging system (alternator) which in turn
>>> >>led to battery failure/discarge. Have that checked as well. As for batteries...I went
>>> >>with the NASCAR heavy duty sucker (heavier plates etc) and so far it has been absolutely
>>> >>great...made for race cars!
>>> >>
>>> >>Best
>>> >>
>>> >>Darc
>>> >>
>>> >>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>>> >>
>>>
>>>                                                       Frank
>>>                                                     -JEEPers-
>>>                                                  "Kung-Fu Forrest"
>>>
>>>         MY WEB PAGE IS UP AT http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Canyon/6045/
>>>
>>>         "Jeep is America's only real sports car"     Mr. Enzo Ferrari
>>>
>>> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>>


      Frank
                    -JEEPers-
"Kung-Fu Forrest"

MY WEB PAGE IS UP AT http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Canyon/6045/

"Jeep is America's only real sports car"     Mr. Enzo Ferrari

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 16:49:54 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Looking for a used VPC

> I need a used VPC head unit.  Actually, I just need the main circuit board
> if that's all you have.  I was playing around with mine and accidentally
> toasted it.

Bob, I don't have any board around but I have the VPC control unit lying around
open if you'd like to compare anything that mybe needs to be replaced.

Sorry, this is maybe not of much help.

Roger

- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

End of Team3S Digest V1 #52
***************************

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