--
From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #49
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
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Team3S Digest Wednesday,
December 16 1998 Volume 01 : Number
049
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:49:07 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: New outlet?
I also found them a while ago but their prices are
somewhat hight. Definitely a
good source for german cars :)
-
-----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo
(Animale Rosso)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:34:02 -0800
From: Rich <rleroy@pacifier.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Another EGR Question
Dennis:
Dennis Moore
wrote:
<snip>
> So here are my questions:
>
1) Is their explanation a reasonable possibility?
The explanation you got
*sounds* reasonable to me, but I'll let the more
technically proficient here
answer this one.
> 2) What possible linkage could there be to my
braking
> system? Would poor or erratic RPMs affect the
brake
> fluid pumping mechanism?
This one I *can* answer. The
answer is yes. Power assist or power
brakes work off of vacuum from
your manifold. If the car is
idling/running poorly, the loss of proper
vacuum from your manifold will
effect the performance of the power assist
brakes.
> The vehicle is a 94 GMC Jimmy, if that makes any
difference.
Well, it's a GM product .... <whole-body-shudder> ....
so this may
effect how willing some folks are to even bother helping to
diagnose the
problem. :-)
Rich
Emerald Green 94
R/T
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:42:05 -0500
From: "Fein, Edward" <fein@strategy.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Corrections for Turbo Mag's EIP Shootout!
In the magazine trade,
advertising dollars pay the bills. Readers are
important because readership
determines advertising rates, but subscription
income is minimal. In other
words, business-savvy editors may be wise to
keep their advertisers happy
even at the expense of pissed-off individual
readers whose cars they describe
inaccurately.
Question to ponder: How much money does BMW give Car &
Driver to *always*
rate BMWs as the top car in every class they enter? It's
almost humorous the
way C&D will rig their point results so the BMW will
always win, often by
merely a single point (on a scale of
100).
-Ed
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Brad Bedell
I feel some of the editors in
these magazines have trouble comprehending
what they are reading. Maybe
they just don't care about accuracy and feel
they have to put free plugs
about their venders.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:42:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Dennis Moore <stealth@kiva.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Corrections for Turbo Mag's EIP Shootout!
Ouch. That's a pretty
damning indictment. Has anyone ever done any
serious research to
determine whether this is an accurate assumption or
not? I can see the
possibility of some editors being tempted to do this,
but are the advertisers
so disingenuous that they would would want to
continue doing business with a
magazine which pulled these kinds of
stunts? After all, "If they
massage my numbers, what will happen to my
products' ratings when I'm no
longer the biggest account?"
Dennis Moore
stealth@kiva.net
On Mon, 14 Dec 1998,
Fein, Edward wrote:
>
> In the magazine trade, advertising dollars
pay the bills. Readers are
> important because readership determines
advertising rates, but subscription
> income is minimal. In other words,
business-savvy editors may be wise to
> keep their advertisers happy even
at the expense of pissed-off individual
> readers whose cars they describe
inaccurately.
[snip]
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:05:41 -0500
From: "Fein, Edward" <fein@strategy.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Corrections for Turbo Mag's EIP Shootout!
It's common proactice
in most magazine trades, sadly enough. For example,
video game magazines
always rate their heavy advertisers' games higher.
I'm sure the big
aftermarket companies enjoy similar "agreements" with
Turbo, Sport Compact
Car, and the other auto mags. I mean, certain prominent
aftermarket companies
are notorious for having products that are impossible
to tune, or flimsy and
easily breakable, or just generally suck. But these
companies advertise
heavily in said magazines, and by strange happenstance,
those magazines
somehow overlook the shortcomings of the products and give
them rave
reviews.
You don't really think that's all coincidence, do you?
So
if Turbo does a writeup on some reader's hot ride, and
'accidentally'
mislabels their boost controller as being from one of their
prominent
advertisers... well, being the cynical guy that I am, I wouldn't be
so sure
that it was really accidental.
-Ed
- -----Original Message-----
From: Dennis
Moore
Ouch. That's a pretty damning indictment. Has anyone
ever done any
serious research to determine whether this is an accurate
assumption or
not? I can see the possibility of some editors being
tempted to do this,
but are the advertisers so disingenuous that they would
would want to
continue doing business with a magazine which pulled these
kinds of
stunts? After all, "If they massage my numbers, what will
happen to my
products' ratings when I'm no longer the biggest
account?"
Dennis Moore
stealth@kiva.net
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:44:21 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Corrections for Turbo Mag's EIP Shootout!
- -----Original
Message-----From: Fein, Edward <fein@strategy.com>
|In the magazine
trade, advertising dollars pay the bills. Readers are
|important because
readership determines advertising rates, but subscription
|income is minimal.
In other words, business-savvy editors may be wise to
|keep their advertisers
happy even at the expense of pissed-off individual
|readers whose cars they
describe inaccurately.
- -----------snip---------
Absolutely true, but
you must also include two other factors when evaluating
the written
word: Ignorance and ineptitude. Even ad-free Consumer
Reports
regularly gives high ratings to cars that can't go around a corner,
have
lousy service records, and/or squeak unmercifully from the day they
leave
the showroom. There are no advertising dollars to explain the
mistakes, but
lazy writers will often plagiarize what others have written
because they
didn't have the time to check out the product themselves, or
they're not
educated enough to reach a valid conclusion. CR has done
everything from
saying that foul plastic diet sodas taste as good as the real
sugared
product, claimed oleo as good as butter, Kraft mayo as good as
Hellmann's
(Best Foods) and no-name potato chips as good as Wise... In
the technical
areas they're even worse, with cars and electronics leading the
error
factory line-- A 'beemer' as good as a Porsche...? A Radio
Shack speaker
as good as a JBL...? A Minolta as good as a
Nikon...? It's never happened,
and probably never will...
Anyone
with taste buds, ears, eyes, or a BRAIN will usually reach a
different
conclusion than some writers in even the best magazines. You have
to do
your own research and forget what 'they' say, and just look at the
pretty
pictures in the mags. I bought a Stealth because of what I saw
and
felt, but I never would have if I trusted only what I read. And
it's the
best car I've ever owned. I'm going to finish this sandwich
(Progresso Tuna
and Hellmann's mayonnaise, with a Coke), then grab my Nikon,
and go for a
drive in my Stealth...
Forrest
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:35:20 -0600
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Car
and Driver Sucks
Bob Forrest wrote:
> From: Fein, Edward
>
|In magazine trade advertising dollars pay bills. business-savvy editors may be
wise to
> |keep advertisers happy at expense of pissed-off
individual
> |readers whose cars they describe
inaccurately.
> Absolutely true, but you must also include two
other factors when evaluating
> the written word: Ignorance and
ineptitude. I bought a Stealth because of what I saw and
>
felt, but I never would have if I trusted only what I read. And it's
the
> best car I've ever owned. I'm going to finish this sandwich
(Progresso Tuna
> and Hellmann's mayonnaise, with a Coke), then grab my
Nikon, and go for a
> drive in my Stealth...
>
Forrest
Forrest, you Live the Life, man!
Excellence.
There is a definite "party line" in each magazine. With
only a few
writers, who own and like certain cars just as we all do, the
personal
biases inevitably color the reviews. Sometimes it is
entertaining,
sometimes maddening and disappointing. Currently, it is
clear that BMW
is the darling favorite of Car and Driver writers. BMWs
are excellent
cars, but when they come out with an M3 as "Best Handling Car
in the
World" at expense of superior sports cars such as Ferrari 355,
new
Vette, Lotus, etc when doing many objective tests but NEGLECTING TO
GIVE
ROADCOURSE LAPTIMES because BMW came in LAST to
EVERYTHING...printing
THAT would make their conclusion ridiculous.
(Also Viper but that is so
raw they have drummed the idea of it being great
handling right out of
us, as the "delicate genius" style of handling is what
is in vogue with
Car & Driver et al).
Phaaah to their subjective
biases. Many times the car with great stats,
great looks, great "cool
factor", great upgradability loses to some
losermobile because of the
cupholders, floormats, seat bolsters, view
out the back window, 'lack of room
for my tallest hat' and bullpoop like
that. Our cars are too
HEAVY--wwwaaaAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHhhhhh. They go fast
around corners without
DRAMA (can you say NSX? but for that car boring
handling is ok).
They are interesting to look at not upright
sedan-boring. They are
Japanese, not Italian or German. Mitsubishis
don't have a following at
the local roadcourse Drivers Schools/race
events like BMW and Porsche, and as
auto rag writers, we want to stay
popular with THAT crowd, right? They
are AFFORDABLE USED, and amazingly
upgradable for cheap, not just by spending
$10,000+ to get a low 13
second car like with some BMW M3...MAYbe even high
12's, oooohhh...
[picture Austin Powers' Dr. Evil with pinkie to mouth]
Oh well. Let us continue to own our cars, and crush our enemies
with
ruthless abandon. The good part is the magazine drivel keeps all
the
rubes smirking at us...right up until they get repeatedly ground
into
the dirt by our blatant superiority on-track and on-street...sun,
rain,
dirt, snow, ice. Bring on more "superior victims", I am
hungry!
Jack Tertadian
Death to the Infidels! The streets will
continue to run red with the
blood of the Unbelievers! ;)
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:40:32 EST
From: TTurboAWD@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Car and Driver Sucks
Jack,
Agreed. However,
if you are referring to the Sept. '97
C&D Article "Best-Handling Car for
More Than $30,000",
they did indeed include a Nelson Ledges raceway
lap
time on page 81. As you predicted the M3 fared poorly.
Here are the times:
Viper...................1:17.3
Ferrari
F355.........1:18.3
Corvette C5..........1:19.9
Supra
TT..............1:20.1
Carrera S.............1:21.3
BMW
M3.............1:21.6
Acura
NSX-T........1:22.0
Boxster...............1:23.5
Honda
Prelude.....1:25.0(Winner of the under $30,000 series).
I am not a road racer but 4.3 seconds (the margin of
victory
for the Viper over the M3) appears to be several lifetimes in
this
type of event. Best handling car in the world?Yeah,right.
Just
so this has some 3S content... In a test between the M3,
Corvette, Supra, and
3000GT a few months earlier, this same
magazine gave the M3 a higher score
for 'Styling' than it gave
the Mitsu.Unbelievable. Oh well, enough ranting. I
must get
some perverse pleasure from reading these rags since I keep
the
subscriptions
going.
Wayne 3SI
#87
'91 Stealth TT (Best handling car
I've
owned)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:04:28 -0800
From: Yoss <yoss@aracnet.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Car and Driver Sucks
On Dec 15, TTurboAWD@aol.com
said:
> Jack,
[snip]
> Just
so this has some 3S content... In a test between the M3,
> Corvette,
Supra, and 3000GT a few months earlier, this same
> magazine gave the M3 a
higher score for 'Styling' than it gave
> the
Mitsu.Unbelievable.
This is even after the comment they made that the
3000GT attracted the most
looks.
Or just maybe that the M3 would
indeed look more 'Stylish' if you were to look
at these cars with your head
up your ass...But, I ain't gonna try it :-)
- -sankar
- --
*******************************************************************************
You
never assume anything where Lwaxana Troi is concerned. Betazoid
women
are full of surprises.
-- Lwaxana Troi, "Man Hunt",
stardate
42859.2
*******************************************************************************
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:43:25 PST
From: "Zentelis none" <zentelis@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Team3S: none
What's the best place/way to find a '94 R/T TT for sale?
I've been
searching all over the net and the only one I found for sale was
on
Rhode Island and it's not even a TT. It's really quite frustrating ;)
Anybody have any suggestions? After all, I'd like to join in on some of
the mailing list conversations, not just read everything (including 1/4
mile times) thinking "I really wish I had a stealth right now". Thank ya
:)
oh, if it's relevant, I won't be buying one this week or anything, I
just want a place to start looking so i can buy one in the next few
months.
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------------------------------
End
of Team3S Digest V1 #49
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