--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #47
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
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Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest       Saturday, December 12 1998       Volume 01 : Number 047




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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 18:00:06 -0500
From: "Bob Fontana" <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: EGR Trivia

Hey Dave,

Sounds good.  I'm all but convinced that you have a good point.  Under
boost, however, the EGR has none of these positive effects since the valve
is closed.  It it were open during boost, manifold pressure would exceed the
02 housing and our charge air would end up leaking out throught the EGR
valve.  Detonation while *not* under boost has never been a problem in these
cars, so I'm left wondering just what its purpose is other than preheating
the charge air during initial cold weather startup and perhaps a little
exhaust cleanup during cruising.  What else would it be?

- -Bob

>
> Bottom line: I don't see how perfomance can be improved by removing
> this system. If anything I think it makes performance worse. Tell
> me why I'm wrong guys. Please.
>

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Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 15:55:28 -0800
From: "Dave Allison" <dallison@siebel.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: EGR Trivia

Good point regarding EGR activation at boost...

But, if the EGR valve is blocked during boost situations, what is
the point of removing the device at the expense of engine cruising quality
and gas mileage?

With your post I'm even MORE confused why someone would want to
tamper with a subsystem that is irrelevant during WOT situations.

- --------------------------------------
Dave Allison
Network Engineer
Siebel Systems, Inc.
1875 South Grant
San Mateo, CA  94402
650-295-5410
dallison@siebel.com




- -----Original Message-----
From: Bob Fontana [mailto:bfontana@securitytechnologies.com]
Sent: Friday, December 11, 1998 3:00 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: EGR Trivia


Hey Dave,

Sounds good.  I'm all but convinced that you have a good point.  Under
boost, however, the EGR has none of these positive effects since the valve
is closed.  It it were open during boost, manifold pressure would exceed the
02 housing and our charge air would end up leaking out throught the EGR
valve.  Detonation while *not* under boost has never been a problem in these
cars, so I'm left wondering just what its purpose is other than preheating
the charge air during initial cold weather startup and perhaps a little
exhaust cleanup during cruising.  What else would it be?

- -Bob

>
> Bottom line: I don't see how perfomance can be improved by removing
> this system. If anything I think it makes performance worse. Tell
> me why I'm wrong guys. Please.
>

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 19:10:24 -0500
From: "Bob Fontana" <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: EGR Trivia

Dave,

The reason I think it's relevant is because of the copper flex pipe that
connects the 02 housing to the plenum opens up to a passageway that runs
along the back wall of the plenum on the inside.  When the valve is closed,
this passageway is filled with 1000F-1300F exhaust gas.  When it is open,
exhaust gets released into the plenum.  Even if it never opens, the heat
from the exhaust gas will warm up the plenum.  In fact, it gets DAMN hot!
To a drag racer, anything that heats up charge air handlers is not a good
thing.  Granted, in cruising situations, the EGR is probably of some
benefit.  But in 10, 11 or 12-second bursts, a functioning EGR valve is of
no importance.

I think.  Anyone?

- -Bob

> Good point regarding EGR activation at boost...
>
> But, if the EGR valve is blocked during boost situations, what is
> the point of removing the device at the expense of engine cruising
> quality and gas mileage?
>
> With your post I'm even MORE confused why someone would want to
> tamper with a subsystem that is irrelevant during WOT situations.
>

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:11:24 -0600
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: EGR Trivia

EGR open under cruise allows unburnable waste gasses in, dilutes the
incoming air with no-oxygen air.  To compensate, you have to open the
throttle plate more to let adequate oxygenated air in to do the
combustion.  With throttle open more, there is less pumping loss, less
VACUUM created, so engine is running same HP with MORE-OPEN
throttleplate.  Creating the intake vacuum wastes a fair amount of
energy, costs MPG.  That is part of the reason Diesel engines are
efficient (especially with a turbo)--they have NO throttleplate, have NO
intake vacuum--are at full atmospheric pressure in intake tract at all
times, no losses to vacuum production/throttling.  This is part of it at
least; there is decrease in NOx production too, as I recall.
Jack Tertadian
Wishing the Global Warming Farce was real...

Bob Fontana wrote:
> Under boost EGR has none of these positive effects since valve
> is closed.  If open during boost, manifold pressure would exceed
> 02 housing; charge air would leak out through EGR
> valve.  Detonation while *not* under boost isn't problem
> so I'm wondering what purpose is other than preheating
> charge air during cold startup and
> exhaust cleanup during cruising.  
> -Bob

> > Bottom line: I don't see how perfomance can be improved by removing
> > this system. If anything I think it makes performance worse. Tell
> > me why I'm wrong guys. Please.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 21:25:07 EST
From: LotoBoost@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Corrections for Turbo Mag's EIP Shootout!

All,

    Just got a chance to get the new Turbo Magazine (January 1999) which
featured the EIP Tuning and Toyo Tires East Coast Import Shootout.

After reading, I think they mistakenly though I had Adam Weltz's car when they
referenced it, and this is what the "Winners Circle" should have read:

HH - Diamond Star RWD/AWD

Winner.......Randall Mahaffey  '94 Stealth Twin Turbo    11.917   117.62
R/U............Adam Weltz         '96 3000GT VR4            12.387   114.05

Instead they put this..

Winner.......Randall Marabby   '96 Mitsubishi    11.917  117.62
R/U............Adam Weltz         '92 Eagle           12.387  114.05

LOL, I have no idea how they messed everything up so bad..  Would have been
neat for everyone who reads Turbo Magazine too see two Stealth/VR4's ruled the
AWD Quick 8 class..

At least they included an AWESOME pic of Adam launching the heck out of his
'96 3000GT VR4.. Great pic Adam!

TTYLater,
Mike Mahaffey (Randall Michael Mahaffey - for those who wonder where the
Randall came from:)
'94 Stealth tt
Best et: 11.6 Best mph: 121.58
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------------------------------

End of Team3S Digest V1 #47
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