--
From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #46
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To:
owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence:
bulk
Team3S Digest Friday,
December 11 1998 Volume 01 : Number
046
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:38:29 EST
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Computer type
Video question
I'm not sure if this is on topic? I just got a great
surprise.
Someone just gave me a video of my track run from 10/17/98, where I
ran 11.68.
This was the run just before my 11.41. Can this be posted somehow
for viewing?
I thought others may find it interesting too. How could this be
done?
Arty 91 VR-4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Dec 1998 13:55:22 -0500
From: josesini <josesini@engin.umich.edu>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Brake Pads and speedbleeders?
Roger,
Right now I have
the stillen cross-drilled rotors with metal matrix
pads. I'm happy with
their performance over stock but as you can
imagine I'm looking for something
better. As far as reliability, I
think that they are pretty good, no
worping nor cracking or anything
else. After autocrossing for half a
season with them I can attest that
I did not have brake fade with it but I
think this is because of the
SCCA autocrosses limited speeds. The only
time I felt fade was at the
DSM shootout 98 - autocross. It was my
fourth run and I had to take a
90 degree turn after going 80+ mph. Wow, it
caught me by surprise, it
was one of the last turns so I was able to control
the car after that.
For this coming season I'm planning on entering some
time-trials (as
well as autocrossing) and I know the brakes will fade at high
speeds so
I want something better.
Anyhow, I'm leaning toward
the KVR or the Potterfields pads. How do you
think the stillen
crossdrilled rotors will hold up against these
pads?
Thanks,
Jose
"R.G." wrote:
>
> Jose,
>
> If you are running stock rotors you'll running into danger to warp them
due to
> the hard pads. The rotors will just getting way too hot !
>
> > Performance Friction Z,
>
> They are good for the
stock rotors (Jim has them)
>
> > KVR carbon fiber,
>
> Good for racing but a lot of dust and I don't know how the wear of the
rotors
> will then be.
>
> > Hawk HPS, or
> >
Pagid/Racing
>
> Dunno about the Hawks but the Pagids are
aggressive ones. Together with the
> Bremsa rotors they work good when
they have to bite. The stock rotors cannot
> withstand them !
>
> I'll test the new japanese Formula 3 pads with the Pagids next year in
the hope
> that the light warping feeling when braking softly will go
away.
>
> -----------------------
> Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
> 93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
>
> For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:17:52 -0800
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Injectors
Howdy folks...
I've been conversing with a
couple of you off-line and I'm somewhat confused
so I've decided to take it
public. There seems to be a variety of opinions
about upgrading injectors.
I'm going to be installing a set of TEC 15G
turbos and I want to upgrade the
fuel delivery system with a set of 550 or
560 injectors (plus pump). I've
been hearing about RC, HKS, and Nippon Denso
brands.
A couple
questions...
1. Does anyone have comparison data on these brands (and
others)?
2. Lacking quantifiable data, what are you using and
why?
Looking forward...Chris
"Friends don't let friends ride with
me"
1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Dec 1998 12:21:37 -0700
From: Ricardo Cousar <rcousar@uswest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Re: Tow Vehicles
Arty,
I have two suggestions for
you.
1. Buy a supercharger.
2. Sell your explore in Colorado, SUV
are a high commodity hear, and believe it or not
you might get more money
than you paid for it. I have a friend that use to be in the
used car
business and he told me that if you have an SUV it like money in the
bank.
(Tell you what if your interested in that suggestion e-mail me
privately and ill give
you more detailed info).
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:22:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Satya Palani <satya@gho.st>
Subject: Team3S: SRS
light
So I took my car into the dealer this morning to have them fix a
broken
water pump. My SRS light has been on for a couple of months now,
and I
figured I'd have them reset it while it was there. When I found
out that
the pirates wanted $42(!) to reset it, I told them to forget about
it.
I'm wondering: what are my options? The ignition key trick
didn't turn
off the light for me, and I really don't want to take apart my
dash to
unplug the bulb... Will I have to pay the $42 if I want it off
at this
point, or is there some other secret trick I can try?
Thanks
in advance,
- --
Satya Palani
satya@gho.st
http://www.longshadows.com
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:31:26 -0800
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Spark plug gap
Howdy folks (again)...
I'm following my own
advice (rare but it happens) and separating my
questions by subject
matter. :-)
I'm running a stock engine with a GReddy boost
controller, HKS intake, and
ATR/GReddy 3" exhaust. I run the boost at 1.0bar.
I have Magnecore wires and
a set of HKS Platinum plugs (which I'm told are
made by NGK) which are one
range colder than stock. I've been running them at
.034, but based on
someone's post a few months back, have dropped them to
.030.
Now, I'm planning on installing 15G turbos and new injectors
(previous
post). My questions:
1. Assuming I run up to 1.4 or 1.6bar
(20 to 23psi) of boost with adequate
fuel delivery, what should my plug gap
be?
2. Other potential problems?
BTW...I have an extra set of
Magnecore 8.5mm wires for sale. They're worth
$150 new, make me an
offer.
Looking forward...Chris
"Friends don't let friends ride
with me"
1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:57:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Satya Palani <satya@gho.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Spark
plug gap
On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Chris Winkley wrote:
> I have
Magnecore wires and a set of HKS Platinum plugs (which I'm told
> are made
by NGK) which are one range colder than stock. I've been
> running them at
.034, but based on someone's post a few months back,
> have dropped them
to .030.
On a vaguely related note, is there any value in changing the
gap on the
plugs in a non-turbo car? I've seen a lot of recommendations
for gaps on
the turbo models, but nothing on the NTs. Without serious
mods (I only
have an FIPK), I suspect the stock gap should be appropriate,
but I'm
asking on the off-chance that it might make a difference...
-
--
Satya Palani
satya@gho.st
http://www.longshadows.com
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Dec 1998 13:11:49 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Spark plug gap
> -----Original
Message-----
<snip>
> Now, I'm planning on installing 15G
turbos and new injectors (previous
> post). My questions:
>
>
1. Assuming I run up to 1.4 or 1.6bar (20 to 23psi) of boost with
adequate
> fuel delivery, what should my plug gap be?
I used to run
0.030" and switched to 0.035" with NGK R-type plugs (double
platinum like
yours). No problems at all at 21 psi and stock plug wires.
Running too
small of a gap can rob a lot of power. I now believe 0.030"
is
excessively small but it really depends on the overall health of
the
ignition.
> 2. Other potential problems?
Octane.
21 psi requires 116 octane fuel. Using lesser fuel will cause
knock
which will cause the ECU to take out timing and therefore reduce
power.
I don't know what the lower limit is for octane assuming the ECU has
removed
as much timing as it can. I would expect that it is still well
above
any fuel readily available at the pump.
Fuel control if you don't already
have that addressed. VPC or at a minimum
an AFC. Neither of these
choices would be my first but the MASC is no
longer available. You
could get into the reprogrammed ECU game but you spin
your bottle and take
your chances. Officially the VPC is not available from
HKS for the 2G
cars...
<snip>
> Looking forward...Chris
>
>
"Friends don't let friends ride with me"
>
> 1995 Glacier Pearl
White VR4
Regards,
Barry
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Dec 1998 13:15:17 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Spark plug gap
The stock gap should be just right. The reason for
reducing the gap on the
turbo engines is that high cylinder pressures will
increase misfires if the
gap is wide. A smaller gap reduces spark
intensity however so it is a
tradeoff.
Some people run as low as
0.028". If you have to run less than 0.032" in a
turbo car it is time
to upgrade the ignition, IMO, since you really are
throwing HP out the
window. I plan to get an amplifier and get the gap back
up to 0.038" or
above once the engine is back
together.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On
Behalf Of Satya Palani
> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 1998 12:57
PM
> To: 'Team3S'
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Spark plug
gap
<snip>
> On a vaguely related note, is there any
value in changing the gap on the
> plugs in a non-turbo car? I've
seen a lot of recommendations for gaps on
> the turbo models, but nothing
on the NTs. Without serious mods (I only
> have an FIPK), I suspect
the stock gap should be appropriate, but I'm
> asking on the off-chance
that it might make a difference...
>
> --
> Satya
Palani
> satya@gho.st
> http://www.longshadows.com
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:36:50 EST
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Spark plug
gap
Chris, .028 gap with 1.4 or 1.6 bar. Other potential problems - Hold
on tight
:)
Arty 91 VR-4
In a message dated 12/10/98 11:38:15 AM
Pacific Standard Time,
cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com
writes:
<<
1. Assuming I run up to 1.4 or 1.6bar (20 to
23psi) of boost with adequate
fuel delivery, what should my plug gap
be?
2. Other potential problems?
>>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 11 Dec 1998 13:31:52 -0800
From: "Errin D. Humphrey" <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Spark plug gap
Satya Palani wrote:
> On a vaguely
related note, is there any value in changing the gap on the
> plugs in a
non-turbo car? I've seen a lot of recommendations for gaps on
> the
turbo models, but nothing on the NTs. Without serious mods (I only
>
have an FIPK), I suspect the stock gap should be appropriate, but I'm
>
asking on the off-chance that it might make a difference...
The mechanic
at my local Mitsubishi service shop used to set up
and race Detroit muscle
cars back in the 60's. He told me that
running low spark plug gap (as
low as 0.026) has always been
considered one of the "tricks" from a
dragracer's "bag." Of course,
whether or not this will help your
mostly-stock N/A 3.0L V6
(versus a fuel-gobbling, overbored big-block V8) is
subject to
debate. I would surmise that the gains for your car would
be
negligible.
- --Errin Humphrey
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:19:13 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Brake Pads and speedbleeders?
> Right now I have the stillen
cross-drilled rotors with metal matrix
> pads. I'm happy with their
performance over stock but as you can
> imagine I'm looking for something
better.
I can't speak for the Stillens. The first aftermarket rotors I
got where the GTR
combos, not crossdrilled but dimpled. The quality, material
and pads are
comparable to the Stillens. They worked good and in rain better
than the stock
ones... for about three months. Then summer came and I went to
speeds over
120mph. I had to brake heavily around 120-150mph and the brakes
got then warped
within minutes. No chance to get them turned due to the
dimples so I searched
for another solution.
The Bremsas Mikael and I
are running are better but we currently have a slight
warped feeling when
braking softly. Getting hard onto them and they stop very
good. But I also
managed to get them over the edge this year when I had to brake
at 160mph ! I
sent them back to Bremsa and they checked them out. They found
that they
where 0.1mm thicker on one side and grinded them. Unfortunately still
then
the temperatures went down and I never had the chance to heat them up
that
much again. They also offered me to test another set of racing pads.
We'll see
how they go.
As Stillen now has ap Racing calipers and
better rotors than the Brembos I'd
contact them if they are planning to
create a new setup for our cars.
BTW, I currently have the Bremsas on the
rear and the stock ones on the front. I
noticed that the car now tends to
oversteer when braking into the curves, sure
as the rear ones bite harder. As
the US versions do have smaller front rotors
this could be the cause of more
oversteering when braking into turns as I have.
Opinons ?
//
Roger
- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT
TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:24:58 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Spark plug gap
At my dyno tests I've gapped the plugs to 0.032
(0.036 stock). The tuning guy as
well as Brian and other told me to decrease
the gap to 0.028. I guess I'll leave
them at 0.030 for now as I don't have
any trouble nor bad idle :)
> I plan to get an amplifier and get the
gap back
> up to 0.038" or above once the engine is back
together.
Let us know what brand and type you are considering (Accel,
Taylor, MSD, etc.)
- -----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Dec 1998 21:45:44 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: SRS light
> My SRS light has been on for a couple of months
now, and I
> figured I'd have them reset it while it was there. When
I found out that
> the pirates wanted $42(!) to reset it, I told them to
forget about it.
They are really pirates ! The dealers here just plug
there tool into the
connctor and go into the menu... voilą.. no
costs.
But for your SRS light, how do you know that everything is working
? A year ago
I washed my car a little bit too good and sprayed some water
under the front
bumper. After this the SRS light stayed on. The Mitsu dealer
got an error code
saying one of the front the front crash sensor do not work.
After getting them
out we found some water in the connectors causing a short
circuit. We cleaned
them and sprayed some silicone spray onto them. No
problem so far :) Sorry,
can't remember if they had to reset the code but I'd
try to check out first what
error you're getting.
-
-----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo
(Animale Rosso)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:32:38 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Spark plug gap
> On a vaguely related note, is there any value
in changing the gap on the
> plugs in a non-turbo car? I've seen a
lot of recommendations for gaps on
> the turbo models, but nothing on the
NTs. Without serious mods (I only
> have an FIPK), I suspect the
stock gap should be appropriate, but I'm
> asking on the off-chance that
it might make a difference...
Yes, stock gapping is fine for NT cars.
You'd not benefit of a lower gap as you
don't supply the chambers with more
pressure. Regapping is only neccessary when
increasing boost (e.g. adding a
supercharger).
- -----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
Visit my homepage under:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:30:09 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Spark plug gap
> > 2. Other potential problems?
>
> Octane. 21 psi requires 116 octane fuel.
<snip>
I
agree 150% with Barry !! Just remember what low octane did to my
engine,
better said, what detonation did !
> Fuel control if you
don't already have that addressed. VPC or at a minimum
> an
AFC. Neither of these choices would be my first but the MASC is no
>
longer available. You could get into the reprogrammed ECU game but you
spin
> your bottle and take your chances.
I'd also add a bigger
fuel pump to be sure enough of the drink is provided on
high boosts. Also a
boost-dependant fuel-pressure regulator would be probably a
good idea. The
AFC is ok for WOT runs.
- -----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Dec 1998 14:43:42 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Spark plug gap
Back in the 60s there may not have been the high energy
and reliable output
ignitions as are common in most consumer cars
today.
I would question him as to why 0.026" is better than say 0.032"
for a
particular engine. At 0.026" you can be reasonably assured that
you will
never misfire IFF the spark is big enough to actually ignite the
charge. If
there is not enough spark energy then the plug may as well
not even be in
the hole since the charge simply won't ignite. At some
point too small of a
gap is very bad. Typically, the bigger the gap the
better if the ignition
can handle it given the cylinder pressure.
A
wide gap with lots of juice supplied to it is almost always better since
the
spark is big, long and hot which results in more complete combustion.
The
trick is finding the best combination of gap and spark energy for a
given
application.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On
Behalf Of Errin D.
> Humphrey
> Sent: Friday, December 11, 1998 2:32
PM
> To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Spark plug gap
<snip>
> The mechanic
at my local Mitsubishi service shop used to set up
> and race Detroit
muscle cars back in the 60's. He told me that
> running low spark
plug gap (as low as 0.026) has always been
> considered one of the
"tricks" from a dragracer's "bag." Of course,
> whether or not this
will help your mostly-stock N/A 3.0L V6
> (versus a fuel-gobbling,
overbored big-block V8) is subject to
> debate. I would surmise that
the gains for your car would be
> negligible.
>
> --Errin
Humphrey
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:24:06 EST
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Spark plug
gap
In addition, I think the lower plug gap (set to .028) will help
avoid
detonation & keep the EGT's lower. I can see the difference between
.028 &
.030 on my Temp gauge.
Arty 91 VR-4
In a message dated
12/10/98 12:17:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, beking@home.com
writes:
<<
Subj: RE: Team3S: Spark plug gap
Date: 12/10/98 12:17:47 PM Pacific
Standard Time
From: beking@home.com (Barry E.
King)
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Reply-to:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
The
stock gap should be just right. The reason for reducing the gap on
the
turbo engines is that high cylinder pressures will increase
misfires if the
gap is wide. A smaller gap reduces spark
intensity however so it is a
tradeoff.
Some people
run as low as 0.028". If you have to run less than 0.032" in
a
turbo car it is time to upgrade the ignition, IMO, since you really
are
throwing HP out the window. I plan to get an amplifier and
get the gap back
up to 0.038" or above once the engine is back
together.
Regards,
Barry
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On
Behalf Of Satya Palani
> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 1998 12:57
PM
> To: 'Team3S'
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Spark plug
gap
<snip>
> On a vaguely related
note, is there any value in changing the gap on the
> plugs in a
non-turbo car? I've seen a lot of recommendations for gaps
on
> the turbo models, but nothing on the NTs. Without serious
mods (I only
> have an FIPK), I suspect the stock gap should be
appropriate, but I'm
> asking on the off-chance that it might make a
difference...
> >>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Dec 1998 14:55:20 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Spark plug gap
That's because you are not making as much power as you
could be at 0.030" or
higher. If EGTs are higher at 0.030" then you add
a bit more fuel. The
result is going to be better power.
I don't
see how detonation comes into play.
Regards,
Barry
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On
Behalf Of Aso8@aol.com
> Sent: Thursday,
December 10, 1998 2:24 PM
> To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
Cc: Aso8@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Team3S:
Spark plug gap
>
>
> In addition, I think the lower plug gap
(set to .028) will help avoid
> detonation & keep the EGT's lower. I
can see the difference between .028 &
> .030 on my Temp gauge.
>
Arty 91 VR-4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 11 Dec 1998 14:03:22 -0800
From: "Errin D. Humphrey" <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Brake Pads and speedbleeders?
josesini wrote:
>
else. After autocrossing for half a season with them I can attest
that
> I did not have brake fade with it but I think this is because of
the
> SCCA autocrosses limited speeds. The only time I felt fade was
at the
> DSM shootout 98 - autocross. It was my fourth run and I had
to take a
> 90 degree turn after going 80+ mph. Wow, it caught me by
surprise, it
> was one of the last turns so I was able to control the car
after that.
>
> For this coming season I'm planning on entering some
time-trials (as
> well as autocrossing) and I know the brakes will fade at
high speeds so
> I want something better.
Quick question: How
well does your car do on the autocross
courses? Relative to other
cars? I ask because I have wanted
to give it a try in the future, but I
feel that my car just might not
be appropriate for that kind of racing
(becaus of its weight and
awd makes drifting difficult, and GT-type steering,
etc.).
- --Errin Humphrey
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Dec 1998 14:47:30 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Octane formula, was Spark plug gap
> Octane. 21 psi
requires 116 octane fuel.
Hey Barry,
I've seen you mention
this several times the last few weeks. What is
the formula for
calculating required octane for a specific psi. I want
to calculate the
max boost for the 92 octane available here in CA.
Thanks,
Ken
- --
Ken Middaugh
General Atomics
San
Diego
(619) 455-4510
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:52:55 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Octane formula, was Spark plug gap
I do not have the formula at hand but
have seen it in some SAE paper
somewhere before.
I use the Java
applets at Ray Hall's site
http://www.internetnorth.com.au/turbofast/
Basically
it calculates the detonation point based on cylinder pressures
(presumably
ignoring ignition timing or assuming optimal) and selects the
octane which
resists detonation at that
pressure.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
> Hey Barry,
>
> I've seen you mention this
several times the last few weeks. What is
> the formula for
calculating required octane for a specific psi. I want
> to
calculate the max boost for the 92 octane available here in CA.
>
>
Thanks,
> Ken
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Dec 1998 14:59:03 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Brake Pads and speedbleeders?
> Regarding the
speedbleeders, I put an order last time I changed my brake
> fluid and I
got 4 identical speedbleeders. They only fit in the front
>
calipers, so the rears still have the original bleeders.
>
> Does
anyone know the right size for the rear speedbleeders? Or if
>
anyone wants to buy 4 rear bleeders, I will trade him my 2 extra front
>
bleeders (new never installed) for 2 new rear ones.
Hi Jose,
This
is strange. My '91 VR4 uses identical sizes on all four corners,
and
even in the clutch slave cylinder. I bought 5 Speedbleeders, part
#
SB1010, 10mm x 1.0. I'd be very suprised if the rear calipers
were
different between a '91 and '92.
If you have a thread gauge, pull
out a rear bleed screw and measure it.
I'm certain the Speedbleeder guy
would be happy to do an exchange for
you.
Good luck,
Ken
- --
Ken Middaugh
General Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 11 Dec 1998 01:33:55 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Autocross (was: Brake Pads and speedbleeders)
> Quick
question: How well does your car do on the autocross
>
courses? Relative to other cars? I ask because I have wanted
>
to give it a try in the future, but I feel that my car just might not
> be
appropriate for that kind of racing (becaus of its weight and
> awd makes
drifting difficult, and GT-type steering, etc.).
After some driving
schools I know the car better and I can say that drifts are
very possible and
you'll drift over all four wheels earlier than expected when
hitting the gas
in a corner :) Weight is really a problem and plays an important
rule. But
with enough boost your tourque courve will be high and flat and you'll
never
fall the rpms below 4000. There's plenty of power available for the fun.
I
don't know what the autocross courses look like in the States as we usually
race
on Racing roads (Formula 1 and other classes) in Europe but if you have
more
low-gear turns then the weight rules much more. The real bad thing is
the SRS
steering wheel. It's just too big and not good for racing. I hit my
knees
several times to it but there's no replacement with an airbag available
:(
// Roger
- -----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:33:24 -0500
From: josesini <josesini@engin.umich.edu>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Brake Pads and speedbleeders?
"Errin D. Humphrey"
wrote:
<SNIP>
> Quick question: How well does your car do
on the autocross
> courses? Relative to other cars? I ask
because I have wanted
> to give it a try in the future, but I feel that my
car just might not
> be appropriate for that kind of racing (becaus of its
weight and
> awd makes drifting difficult, and GT-type steering,
etc.).
>
> --Errin Humphrey
It all depends on the course
layout. Most SCCA autocrosses (Solo II)
attempt to layout a really
narrow and slow course (no more than 45 mph)
due to the very sharp and
consecutive turns. In this case, the weight
is a big problem so is
heavy understeer. Solution - first get wheels
9.5 or 10 in wide with
36mm offset or lower and mount R1 tires
275-40R17s or wider if you can.
You will be amazed at how the
understeer gets reduced, and your times
improve.
2nd get better shocks and springs (gabs and eibach or ground
control)
But here in the Detroit SCCA section, 50% of the times the
courses get
set up by some guy running a Street Prepared or Modified Mustang
so they
know that fast courses it's better for their cars (and mine) so we
hit
60mph and voila the times relative to others
improve.
Unfortunately (or fortunate as you will see) not too many cars
get
entered in my class so usually I run against very few other cars like
5
or so. I'm glad to say that I've always gotten 2nd or 1st place. I
do
have to say that my last autocross of the season was at the
DSM
shootout, where I fried my clutch (barely made it home), so I
was
running only stock boost (7-10psi), and I didn't have R1 tires.
Ended
up in the middle of my class something like 17/27 or something
like
that. That was a fast autocross 80+ mph, and long over 100sec
laps
compare to the SCCA's 40 to 60sec laps.
Anyhow, I've discovered
the secret is to be smooth on turns,and to break
heavily before the turn so
you can accelerate as you reach the apex, and
come out at WOT with fully
spooled turbos out of each turn without
understeering too much.
Good
luck!
Jose
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 11 Dec 1998 00:42:36 -0800
From: John Christian <ie886@po.cwru.edu>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Brake Pads and speedbleeders?
Hi,
Skip this reply if your
track is a drag strip. Stock pads would work
fine for the short time
you need them and there is plenty of time to let
the brake system cool down
before the next run.
For a Road Course Track:
Stock pads
will get you thru about 60 track miles.
>Porterfield R4S,
That is a
street pad. The track pad is an R4 (part 513 for the TT). I
have
had the best longevity with the R4. It will usually last 2 days
of
driving school which equates to about 200 track miles.
The
"long" life may perhaps be attributed to Shawn Dewy's BBQ
treatment
technique. Thanks Shawn. Source was ALAMO cost
$120. ALAMO stopped
carring Porterfield, but you can order direct from
Porterfield.
>Performance Friction Z,
Again a street
pad. I tried the 83 compound == lasted about as long as
stock
pads. The pads PF sent me had a much smaller surface area
than
the
stock pads and actually cut a grove in my rotors. Source
was PF direct
and cost was $200. [plus replacement rotors at $86 each]
I'll never buy
from PF again.
>KVR carbon fiber, Pagid
Haven't
tried these yet.
>Hawk HPS
Another street pad. So far I've
used one set of the Hawk GOLD
compound. It lasted a complete school day
plus one session == about 120
miles. The GOLD pads gave the best pedal
feel and best positive braking
I've had so far. Source Fred Baker
Porsche 800 584-4707. Cost $150.
>Oh yeah, I forgot, I have a 92
Stealth TT.
OOOooppps. With the 92 tiny rotors, you'll be lucky to get
half of the
life at the track. Although Mitsu increased the size of the
rotors in
1994, they didn't also increase the size of the pads. That
would have
made a BIG difference.
P.S. I dont't use track pads on the
street -- only on the track.
If you are going to do road track
events,
1. Use Ford brake fluid
2. Get Stainless braded lines
3.
Install cooling ducts
4. Go slow -- but fast thru the turns
See
Adventures in Braking at my website
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538
I
must replace th rear turbo I blew at Raod Atlanta last month.
But
before the turbo, I have to get better brake life.
Right now I'm
planning to upgrade to a larger caliper/pad for the 99
season. So far Brad's
BIG brakes seem like the easiest solution.
[snip]
>Josesini wrote:
>Does anyone know where I can
get any of the following Brake Pads for our >cars? and is there one better
than another. My purpose is street and
>occasional track
days.
Be of good cheer
John
- --
JCZoooM 93 TT
12.46@109Mph '94Brakes 4 warranty Getrags
If Getrag replaced
call Chrysler 800 992-1997 & register complaint
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538
VR4's Mitsu at 800
222-0037
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 11 Dec 1998 13:21:26 +0100
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mikael_=C5kesson?="
<vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: Team3S:
Stearing wheel
I have planned to replace the "truck style" stearing wheel
to an aftermarket like Momo or something like that, but I feel that an airbag
can be a good thing to have if...
I was looking at the japaneese mitsu
site today and they have pictures of a good looking (or atleast much better
looking) stearing wheel on the legnum/galant vr4.
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.jp/PRODUCTSS/legnumv.html
Does
anyone know if it's possible to use this stearing wheel in a 3000gt vr4 (93) and
have full functionality on the airbag ?????
/Mikael http://www.bahnhof.se/~vr4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 11 Dec 1998 16:43:57 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Steering wheel / synchros, parts / infos
Ahhh, this is really a
nice thing ! I like it for sure. Just got off the phone
with a responsible
person of Mitsu Switzerland and he told me that the VR-4 type
cars will not
find their way to Europe :(( The Legnum would be the perfect
business car for
me ! Till today these cars will not made for left
steering
countries.
> Does anyone know if it's possible to use this
stearing wheel in a 3000gt vr4
> (93) and have full functionality on the
airbag ?????
Unfortunately, Mitsu changed the design of the hub over the
years. The person
said that he can't see any way that it would fit because
the timing of the
airbag will not be the same with the huge one we currently
have and therefore
the security system will not be matched together. Maybe
there will be away that
it will fit but nobody will guarantee for it. I think
keeping the eyes open as
well as trying to contact some japanese friends
would help for the future.
As I had the guy on the phone I also asked him
about synchros and tranny stuff.
He confirmed, that all parts for our
trannies are available seperately as well
as the synchros. Until 1 1/2 year
ago Getrag just sold an exchange tranny (what
I got) when something went
wrong and today a Mitsu dealer can order all the
stuff :) Just let me
know.
Last but not least, I asked them for any further info and he just
mentioned
something about the 4.8l V8 GDI engine. But this will be again a
concept car and
will have not a lot in common with a future 3000GT plan. Here
in Switzerland
they are selling 8 - 15 cars per year (going lower !) so it's
no wonder that I
almost haven't seen any sister car over the last years.
Furthermore, they think
that the 4-bangers have a better chance and are
currently trying to get the
governments ok for the Galant VR-4 Evo IV Rally
version. This is a 2.0litre
Turbo AWD 4-banger with 290hp ! Prize in
Switzerland will be around the 3000GT
TT prize,
ouch.
Cheers,
Roger
- -----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:12:16 -0800
From: "Dave Allison" <dallison@siebel.com>
Subject:
Team3S: EGR Trivia
None of these EGR posts have given me a warm fuzzy
feeling, so I've
been doing a ton of research on the EGR valve.
Put
simply, the purpose of the EGR valve is for emissions reasons.
It is designed
to reduce production of NOx gasses in the exhaust. The way it
does this is to
recirculate exhaust into the intake charge. The amount of
exhaust allowed
back into the intake charge is between 6%-10%. If it were
anything other than
exhaust gas being returned to the intake, say plain old
air, you'd have some
problems with air/fuel mixture and also temperature.
This is NOT what
happens.
Just the opposite effect occurs. Since there is no O2 in the
exhaust
gas, the recirculated axhaust is INERT and has a COOLING effect on
the
combustion process. The purpose of the EGR is to keep the
combustion
temperature below 2500F, the temp where NOx is produced. Any temps
above
2500F cause NOx to be produced. If the EGR is disabled/blocked you not
only
lose this quenching effect of the inert exhaust gasses in the
combustion
chamber, but you also get poor performance, as Barry King noted,
due to the
ECU continuing its' advancement of timing and fuel enrichment.
This is
because the ECU is clueless that you have removed the EGR from the
equation.
So what you get is poor performance. The engine runs with the wrong
timing
and the wrong fuel enrichment. You also increase chances of detonation
risk
because you've removed a system designed to cool the intake charge to
under
2500F!
So some may say, "Well, then... I'll just play with my
MASC/VPC/AFC
to lean the fuel to compensate for the missing EGR and I'll also
install an
ITC to compensate for the new timing required." This still leaves
the issue
of losing the cooling effect of the intake charge to avoid
increased
chances of detontaion.
Bottom line: I don't see how
perfomance can be improved by removing
this system. If anything I think it
makes performance worse. Tell me why I'm
wrong guys.
Please.
Thanks!
- --------------------------------------
Dave
Allison
Network Engineer
Siebel Systems, Inc.
1875 South Grant
San
Mateo, CA 94402
650-295-5410
dallison@siebel.com
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Fontana [mailto:bfontana@securitytechnologies.com]
Sent:
Friday, December 04, 1998 7:30 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Break out the champaign! (headers)
The ECU closes the
valve under boost, so we know there's no detriment to
performance by running
without it while in boosted state. When cruising,
the ECU will open the
valve up even when the motor is warm. But after two
years of stick time
with the block plate installed, I was still getting 24
MPG @ 80 MPH.
It's hard to tell just what the down side of this
modification is other than
"removing or modifying a pollution control
device". :-)
-
-Bob
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On
Behalf Of Barry E. King
> Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 10:27 AM
>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Break out the champaign! (headers)
>
>
>
The exhaust pressure idea is a good one.
>
> > What about a
tapped line that allows to messure the pressure in
> > the
manifold
> > before the turbo. This would be great for preventing
any
> > pre-knock situation as
> > too much back-pressure can
cause knock and a pressure sensor acts
> > more quick
> > than
an EGT probe. I think I'll do this on the front one as there
> > is
more space
> > available :)
>
> The problem with getting
rid of the EGR is that the ECU still thinks it is
> there and behaves
accordingly. It activates it even though there
> is nothing
>
to activate. Once activated the ECU will adjust timing and mixture
to
> compensate for the heat. This of course changes the tune of the
vehicle.
> Manually adjustig for it leaves the car out of tune once the
EGR is
> deactivated by the ECU. What really needs to happen is the
EGR
> code in the
> ECU also be eliminated.
>
> >
Therefore, you also blocked the EGR pipe, right ? I'd do
> > everything
to keep the
> > intake cool and this would be the first one.
Unfortunately,
> > emmission test must
> > be done evry two
years. Also my mechanic told me that blocking
> > the EGR can
kill
> > the rear pre-cat due to the hotter gases (huh ?). Comments
?
> >
> > -----------------------
> > Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
> > 93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale
Rosso)
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Barry
>
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:30:28 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
EGR Trivia
Great stuff Dave. Furthermore, even WITH some sort of
compensating device
that device would have to be smart enough to compensate
ONLY during EGR
operation (which is BTW readable from the ECU) and switch
back to "normal"
compensation when the EGR was inactive.
Someone
locally suggested not to mess with the Mistu EGR but they were
unable to give
me an explanation I could understand. I recently did get an
explanation
from another Dodge/Mtsi mechanic (one who actually modifies
these things) and
his explanation totally backs up what your research
suggests. Messing
with the EGR is a bad thing unless the ECU is
reprogrammed to
compensate.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
<reluctantly snipped>
> So some may say,
"Well, then... I'll just play with my MASC/VPC/AFC
> to lean the fuel to
compensate for the missing EGR and I'll also
> install an
> ITC to
compensate for the new timing required." This still leaves
> the
issue
> of losing the cooling effect of the intake charge to avoid
increased
> chances of detontaion.
>
> Bottom line: I don't
see how perfomance can be improved by removing
> this system. If anything
I think it makes performance worse. Tell
> me why I'm
> wrong guys.
Please.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
--------------------------------------
> Dave Allison
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 11 Dec 1998 12:21:32 -0500
From: "Fein, Edward" <fein@strategy.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Brake Pads and speedbleeders?
Try http://www.ogracing.com/
They carry a
huge assortment of race products, including the full line of
Performance
Friction brake pads, and the full line of RedLine fluids.
As for
autocrossing, yes the 3000 is too heavy for tight courses. The car is
amazing
over 80 mph, and good in the 50-80 region, but on some courses you
never even
hit 50 mph. AutoX layouts vary widely by region, but DC Region
SCCA sets very
tight, low-speed courses. So, as they say, your mileage
will
vary...
-Ed
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web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
End
of Team3S Digest V1 #46
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