--
From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #42
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To:
owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence:
bulk
Team3S Digest
Sunday, December 6 1998 Volume
01 : Number
042
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 06 Dec 1998 01:41:24 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject:
Team3S: Boost / fuel cut problem
Friends,
Since some days I'm on
an email discussion with George Kuo, another proud 3000GT
owner that seems to
have a serious problem and I'd like to ask your assist in
this case. I don't
know if he already subscribed but I'll jump in here to get
other
ideas.
He's car got a rebuild (crankshaft broke, runned without oil, blew
a fuel
filter) and now has forget pistons and rods. He runned the Greddy
Profec A and
thought it is not working properly (sometimes he got boost,
sometimes not). Also
before the rebuild he had low fuel pressure but he says
it's back to normal now.
Other mods are TRUST Type-S BOV, AFC, HKS fuel pump,
13G, TRUST Off-road exhaust
(eliminates the pre-cats, like he said) and
probably also another air filter.
Also he changed the BC to the Blitz DSBC
and now found the same behavior like
wit the Greddy before. Fortunately for
him when boost is low, he uses another
setting that gives him the desired
1.0bars. If he then gets overboost he
switches back to another lower setting
and is getting again 1.0bars.
The problems :
A) sometimes there's
boost, sometimes not (same behavior with diff. BC)
B) He's running into
hesitation around 1.0bars and fuel cut just on a little
higher
boost.
Well, remote diagnostic is very hard, but I think there is
definitely a problem
within the fuel system. The AFC helps in getting rid of
the fuel cut by leaning
it out. But this is only fighting a symptom and not
the cause. Especially not at
1.0bars. IMHO, this sounds like a fuel pressure
problem as well a vacuum line
problem. He said the car is running good and
boosts good until he drove 2-3
miles then everything goes away.
Since
I'm no specialist on fuel-system I ask for your help here. Also I need
some
support to open the eyes of George as he still thinks he can cure the
problem
by adding a VPC, G-Force ECU, bigger injectors and more as well as just
set
the params of the Blitz manually on the fly to get the desired boost. I
maybe
wrong but I doubt that this is a good way and I see another rebuild coming
if
he doesn't find the cause of the problem soon.
I also think his car needs
a good look under a lot parts as he doesn't
understand the stuff till today
(we all had to learn). The exhaust (no pre-cats
but maybe a main cat), fuel
system and vacuum system needs a good inspection as
I think the dog lies
somewhere in there.
Thanks in advance,
Roger
George Kuo's
address is : amkreadgto@yahoo.com
-
-----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo
(Animale Rosso)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 05 Dec 1998 20:09:54 -0800
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Underhood Temps
R.G. wrote:
> Errin,
>
> No
I don't have any temperature readings but I have a heat shield on the
>
innerside of the hood mounted. This is stock on the EU 3000GTs and I also
think
> I saw it on pictures from US cars (others
??).
<snip>
The North American 1st generation cars have a metal heat
shield which does not extend
all the way forward Roger. It sounds like
perhaps the Euro models do, and the frazzled
silver protectant film on the
heat blanket is consequently not a problem. Here it is
problem after a few
years as it looks scabby where the heat scorches it off just forward
of the
metal shield. I do not recall anyone with a 2nd generation complaining
about
this, so Mitsu/Dodge must have corrected it by
then.
>
>
>
<snip>
>
> I painted the IC pipe that goes from the rear turbo
to the left IC with a 300°F
> paint. I've never had any problem with this
and that's where the heat is :)
If this works, that is the 300 F tape
Errin is giving a try (muffler tape ?) please post
back and advise as I
want to solve my look inside the hood as well. How does it
look
BTW?
Darc
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 05 Dec 1998 20:14:50 -0800
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Team3S: re
shudder
Thanks Jack, Barry, Eric and Jeff for your responses. It
looks like a
bit of crawling around under there to see if I can determine
the
problem. I thought I'd let my fingers do some in group walking
first.
I'm nearly positive it is not wheel/tire related and seems to be low
end
(2000 rmp) acceleration in third that produces it. It may be
bucking
that will smooth out and disappear when I get the BC fine
tuned. If
not, I'm into getting greasy..gotta love
it!1
Darc
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 6 Dec 1998 09:26:32 -0500
From: "Bob Fontana" <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Boost / fuel cut problem
Roger,
I think the cause of
his orginal engine failure was a blown oil pump, not a
fuel pump. That
probably doesn't have any bearing on the problems he's
experiencing
today.
He has the bigger fuel pump but is using stock injectors.
With all of the
mods he has done to improve his flow, there's no wonder he is
getting fuel
cut and detonation. The bigger injectors will
help.
I ran my car yesterday a little bit. It was raining out
again, so I could
only hit it hard once in 3rd gear. I had my EVC set
to 19 PSI (1.25 bars)
of boost. At 6000 RPM, I felt a very slight
hesitation. I lifted the
throttle and about one second later glanced
over at my EGT. It was at 1700F
(off the scale) and falling fast.
I estimate that it had probably reached
1800F. I was running my
"street" VPC EPROM and had the fuel pressure turned
down to stock
values. I also haven't hooked up the switch to activate
the
"race" parameters, so fortunately for me, there's plenty of room
for
expansion, but it goes to show that we are all playing right on the
edge
when it comes to these cars.
- -Bob
>
> Since I'm
no specialist on fuel-system I ask for your help here.
> Also I
need
> some support to open the eyes of George as he still thinks he can
cure the
> problem by adding a VPC, G-Force ECU, bigger injectors and
more
> as well as just
> set the params of the Blitz manually on the
fly to get the
> desired boost. I
> maybe wrong but I doubt that
this is a good way and I see another
> rebuild coming
> if he
doesn't find the cause of the problem soon.
>
> I also think his car
needs a good look under a lot parts as he doesn't
> understand the stuff
till today (we all had to learn). The
> exhaust (no pre-cats
> but
maybe a main cat), fuel system and vacuum system needs a good
> inspection
as
> I think the dog lies somewhere in there.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 06 Dec 1998 22:30:39 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Boost / fuel cut problem
Thnks for the input Bob.
> I
think the cause of his orginal engine failure was a blown oil pump, not
a
> fuel pump. That probably doesn't have any bearing on the
problems he's
> experiencing today.
Hmm, he didn't mentioned a
blown oil pump as his words were "blown a fuel filter
(how can this be done
??) ... drove a couples of yards without oil". Since then
he always had low
fuel pressure until the rebuild due to the broken crankshaft.
> He has
the bigger fuel pump but is using stock injectors. With all of the
>
mods he has done to improve his flow, there's no wonder he is getting
fuel
> cut and detonation. The bigger injectors will help.
I
agree that bigger injectors would help in delivering more fuel, but you felt
a
hesitation around 19psi and he's getting fuel cut today at 14.5psi !! For
me
this IS an important sign that there's something wrong as even with the
stock
setup fuel cut does not occur before 17 psi! With my setup, ATR dp/cat,
Borla,
FIPK and Blitz DSBC I runned into hesitation/fuel cut around 18psi. I
had "good"
days and overboosted to 1.34bars without any retarded timing (no
comment,
please). I therefore think that the detonation he's running in is
way too early
than normal ! But what can cause this ? Clogged fuel filter ?
Clogged lines ?
Too low fuel pressure ? Any other ideas ?
I also told
him to let check the O2 sensors as well as the fuel pressure over a
longer
period. Also a good check of the vacuum system is necessary. BTW, also
the
cold-start situation (car runs well then) is interesting as the problems
are
starting when the engine reaches the normal temperatures.
> I
estimate that it had probably reached 1800F.
OUCH ! What octane are you
currently running ?
> I was running my "street" VPC EPROM and had the
fuel pressure turned
> down to stock values. I also haven't
hooked up the switch to activate the
> "race" parameters, so fortunately
for me, there's plenty of room for
> expansion, but it goes to show that
we are all playing right on the edge
> when it comes to these
cars.
Tell us (VPC now/soon guys) more about the "Switch". I have three
different
EPROMs but would like to learn more about the switch,
hehe.
Back to George's problem, I think that the bigger injectors will
cure the
symptom today but will not remove the cause of the problem. Even
more as he had
the same problem before the bigger fuel pump and even with
setting the AFC to 0.
Thanks for any input.
Roger
-
-----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo
(Animale Rosso)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 6 Dec 1998 14:49:02 -0800 (PST)
From: George Kuo <amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Boost / fuel cut problem
Hi,
Thanx Roger for bring
my problems on this discussion board. I would
like to clear something
1st regarding what lead to my engine rebuilt.
I road race extensively
on my '92 RT TT. About 2 yrs ago at a road
course, I blew of my oil
filter and drove it back to the pits area
without any oil. After that
incident, I have low reading on my stock
oil pressure gauge. Then about
a year after while I was crusing 70mph
on the freeway, the car just
stalled. I pulled off to the shoulder
and tried to start to car again.
As I started the car, nasty loud
grinding noises appeared. I knew it was
something bad!$$ .. I towed
it to the Mitsu dealer and found out my
crankshaft broke.
And my Profec A had problems way before any of
these. It worked
great for the 1st year of use but afterwards it hasn't
been working
rite at all. Major problem with it was it wouldn't hold
boost.. drops
to stock boost.
Thanks for the
help.
_________________________________________________________
DO
YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 6 Dec 1998 18:09:56 -0500
From: "Bob Fontana" <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Boost / fuel cut problem
When the motor is hot, detonation
can occur from high cylinder temperatures.
That could be a clue. But
you are right -- 14.5 PSI is too low for those
kinds of things to be
happening. You friend is not "holding boost". Has he
checked all
of his I/C hoses, especially on the inside of the hoses under
the
clamps? I ended up with lots of cracks that leaked boost.
> >
I estimate that it had probably reached 1800F.
>
> OUCH ! What
octane are you currently running ?
It was 93 octane (r + m) /
2.
> Tell us (VPC now/soon guys) more about the "Switch". I have
three
> different
> EPROMs but would like to learn more about the
switch, hehe.
Take an EPROM burner and load one program in at address
0x0000 and the other
at 0x8000. Then solder a 10Kohm resistor between
A15 to VSS and another
from GND to a toggle switch. Cut off the A15 leg
before you plug it into
the VPC socket.
When the switch is ON, the program
a 0x8000 will be selected. When it is
off, the program at 0x0000 is
selected.
- -Bob
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 07 Dec 1998 00:15:25 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Boost / fuel cut problem
Welcome aboard George
:)
> And my Profec A had problems way before any of
these. It worked
> great for the 1st year of use but afterwards it
hasn't been working
> rite at all. Major problem with it was it
wouldn't hold boost.. drops
> to stock boost.
Unfortunately, this
is the same situation again with the Blitz DSBC. The good
thing is that the
Blitz is more manually and therefore you can set the Ratio at
different level
depending if your car is overboosting or not. This is a sign
that there's
something wrong in your system.
Just to make sure, when everything seems
allright, your settigns of the Blitz
are Gain 20 / Ratio 45 and this boosted
up to about 1 bar. This are about the
same results as I'm getting with the
13G setup and is very comparable. After 2
or 3 miles then your boost runned
up very high that you had to set the Ratio
back to 13 to prevent the
overboost over 1.0bars. This is very, very strange and
definitely not normal.
Also I doubt that this is controller related as it would
work or not in the
Blitz case. Mikael from Sweden has also somewhat low Blitz
settings to get
the same boost but they are still on a higher level than yours.
One of my
ideas is to install a bleeder valve and switching the controller off.
Then
set the boost to about 1 bars and see how the system acts when cold and
after
3 or 4 miles. I feel that there will be the same bad behaviour, at
the
beginning boost and then back to somewhat stock level. If this is not the
case,
then there's really something wrong with the controller. Any opinions
?
I'm sure we'll find the problem on Geoge's car :)
file://Roger
- -----------------------
Roger
Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 07 Dec 1998 01:48:41 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: VPC Program trick :)
> Take an EPROM burner and load one
program in at address 0x0000 and the other
> at 0x8000. Then solder
a 10Kohm resistor between A15 to VSS and another
> from GND to a toggle
switch. Cut off the A15 leg before you plug it into
> the VPC
socket.
> When the switch is ON, the program a 0x8000 will be
selected. When it is
> off, the program at 0x0000 is
selected.
Absolutely great. A MUST for any VPC users !! I didn't knew
that the program is
so small. How big is the program anyway ? Maybe it also
fits in other addresses
:) I'll search my good ol burner out of my storage
and will do it before the
installation. Have you ever switched from "Street"
to "Grrrrr" while running the
car ?
Thanks Bob !
-
-----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo
(Animale Rosso)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
End
of Team3S Digest V1 #42
***************************
For unsubscribe
info and FAQ, see our web page at http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm