--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #41
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
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Team3S Digest        Saturday, December 5 1998        Volume 01 : Number 041




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 09:16:59 +1100
From: Andrew Clark <chemist1@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Boost increase

R.G. wrote:
> I doubt that he changed ANYTHING in the ECU as this could only be
> done by adding a dauther board to it (cost intensive). The only idea I can think
> of is that he added an electronic circuit between the ECU and the stock solenoid
> that then changes the behaivour of it. The stock solenoid is open, alternates at
> one specific frequency or is closed. These three stages can be easily detected
> and then changed but it makes no sense without a boost sensing device.
>
> If he changed the ECU then it makes no sense why he didn't changed the fuel
> curve at the same time. Everything sounds a little bit strange ;-)


Roger health scepticism!!!
I sign a contract with this guy that said he was doing what he said &
not, I repeat NOT installing a bleeder valve . So if he did & I find out
about he will be in breach of the trade practices act & his ass will be
grass.
However, I have looked right over the car & will damned if I can see a
bleeder valve ( & I know where to look ).
I will call him & verify exactly what he has done but I really don't
think he is taking me for a ride.
From what I can gather & as you know ( & probably many members of this
list ) I'm not the most mechanically minded person here, he doesn't use
a bleeder valve as he says the car already has one in the form of the
stock solenoid. Now, what he says he does is alter the behaviour of the
stock solenoid so that it will release more pressure that would
otherwise go to the wastegate actuators therefore the wastegates open
later. How he does this ....I can't say with any great authority & I
want to be sure of what I say becuase I know you guys really know your
stuff. So what I will do is speak to him on Monday or ASAP & get the
"exact" details.
I will post this details as soon as I get them ,,hmmmm...better take a
pen & note pad with me when I go to see him.
Cheers
Andrew
Australia
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 01:54:49 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Boost increase

> Roger health scepticism!!!

Haha, sorry but sometimes I leaer faster, sometimes not (grin).

> I sign a contract with this guy that said he was doing what he said &
> not, I repeat NOT installing a bleeder valve . So if he did & I find out
> about he will be in breach of the trade practices act & his ass will be
> grass.

Hey, no offence broh. I did not made this contract and paid for this :(

> Now, what he says he does is alter the behaviour of the
> stock solenoid so that it will release more pressure that would
> otherwise go to the wastegate actuators therefore the wastegates open
> later.

After finding out what "orifice" (thanks to Brian) means in my language this
makes sense : He only makes the opening larger (if necessary) as well as he
bores a small hole into the inner side of the valve. This then releases always
some pressure out to the intake part and therefore acts like a bleeder but IN
the valve and NOT visible. This makes sense ... and it works. Of course, as
brian said, there is some testing necessary until the good setup is found. If
the hole gets too big you'll overboost to the danger level and cannot be
returned. That's why he set a conservative boost level as it isn't adjustable.
Yes, I got it, and this works indeed :)

One little drawback if you ever have a problem : If a dealer tests the
wastegates functionality they fill found a leak in the lines and finally will
replace the solenoid valve because it is "damaged" (i.e. modified) as it leaks.
Just make sure then that they will not throw away the modified one :)

Take care ... and have fun with the extra power ;-)
Roger
 
- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 14:17:41 +1100
From: Andrew Clark <chemist1@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Boost increase

R.G. wrote:
>

> One little drawback if you ever have a problem : If a dealer tests the
> wastegates functionality they fill found a leak in the lines and finally will
> replace the solenoid valve because it is "damaged" (i.e. modified) as it leaks.
> Just make sure then that they will not throw away the modified one :)

I'm going to get this tuning guy to service the car from now on. I think
thats probably best since he is familiar with it & what he has done.
One other thing he said was that the car could run 16 psi quite
comfortably with a "fuel cut" installed, which could be put up under the
dash area or somewhere else out of the way.
What would this be & what would it do? He sort of infered it protects
against running too lean.
Andrew
Australia
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 20:40:41 -0800
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Team3S: Shudder

Hi Team;

I took a bit longer to upgrade my computer than I thought I would and
had nearly 100 posts from you all, waiting when I got back. Congrats
Andrew,  Near bumber Bob, and good developements (frm numerous posts)
sound like they are afoot to fill the gap that Tre is leaving with their
departure.

I have a question for our knowledgeable elite, and hope it isn't what I
am thinking. Anyway, I am getting brief rear end shudder when I put my
foot into it in 3rd at 2200RPM or thereabouts.  Is this to be expected
(I'm still fine tuning my BC) or am I running into carrier bearing (or
any number of of other possible problems ie, transfer case, etc)??? It
doesn't seem reasonable to be encountering this at 40k kms...but there
is no telling what the first 25 were like as I did not own it then.
Again, it's brief, noticeable...smooths out, and then breifly occurs
again about when I am having take my foot off to brake for damn corners
we have around here.

Comments please.

Darc...............glad to be back

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 06:31:07 -0600
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Shudder

shudder, hmm.  If not engine, could be anything from xfer case gears
wearing away, one of driveshaft joints wearing, rearend gear, halfshaft
joint.  Doubt axle bearing.  If any of these, should do it in any gear,
really.  No loose lugnuts, of course.  Third gear in trans is large, and
is takeoff for power to xfer case as I recall. 
Jack T., not-knowledgeable-enough, and my name and 'elite' in same
sentence would give me nausea :P

wce@bc.sympatico.ca wrote:
> question for knowledgeable elite
> getting brief rear end shudder when put my foot into it in 3rd 2200RPM.
> ?carrier bearing, transfer case, etc?
> 40k kms, no telling what first 25 were like, I did not own it then.
> it's brief, noticeable smooths out, then briefly occurs
> again when take foot off to brake for corners
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 04:40:58 PST
From: "Eric Lotter" <elotter@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Shudder

This sounds like the same shudder that my 95 vr-4, (89k) and my sisters
91 vr-4 (50k) was experiencing. There were plenty of suggestions from
the group each more serious than the last, but both of us were under low
fuel conditions when we felt it. Our cause was some kind of fuel
starvation.

That is not to suggest that is what yours may be, but If you have less
than a 1/4 tank of gas, you may want to fill up and see if you get the
same behavior.

EricL

>From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
>Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 20:40:41 -0800
>To: Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
>Subject: Team3S: Shudder
>Reply-To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
>Hi Team;
>
>I took a bit longer to upgrade my computer than I thought I would and
>had nearly 100 posts from you all, waiting when I got back. Congrats
>Andrew,  Near bumber Bob, and good developements (frm numerous posts)
>sound like they are afoot to fill the gap that Tre is leaving with
their
>departure.
>
>I have a question for our knowledgeable elite, and hope it isn't what I
>am thinking. Anyway, I am getting brief rear end shudder when I put my
>foot into it in 3rd at 2200RPM or thereabouts.  Is this to be expected
>(I'm still fine tuning my BC) or am I running into carrier bearing (or
>any number of of other possible problems ie, transfer case, etc)??? It
>doesn't seem reasonable to be encountering this at 40k kms...but there
>is no telling what the first 25 were like as I did not own it then.
>Again, it's brief, noticeable...smooths out, and then breifly occurs
>again about when I am having take my foot off to brake for damn corners
>we have around here.
>
>Comments please.
>
>Darc...............glad to be back
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 07:06:53 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Boost increase

Andrew,

Presumably he will install some sort of fuel cut defencer mechanism.
Usually they are simply a potentiometer that adjusts either the output of
the intake air temperature, manifold air temperature (if so equipped) or
barometric pressure sensor.  Adjusting the output of any of these sesnors
before the ECU reads them can allow the ECU to think more or less air is
present and therefore more or less fuel will be delivered as long as the ECU
is operating within its fuel map.

At WOT above certain a RPM and Outside the parameters of the established
fuel map, the ECU is simply dumping the most amount of fuel it can.  Fuel it
is introduced if more airflow is detected than the ECU thinks the amount of
fuel available can support.  Usually that limit is rather conservative and
can be tweaked somewhat, especially if you are using a device like the AFC,
VPC or MASC for tuning outside the factory fuel map anyway.

Fiddling with the sensors may seem crude but can be effective when properly
tuned and is much less expensive than the "right" way which is to extend or
correct the fuel maps in the ECU.


Regards,

Barry

> -----Original Message-----
> I'm going to get this tuning guy to service the car from now on. I think
> thats probably best since he is familiar with it & what he has done.
> One other thing he said was that the car could run 16 psi quite
> comfortably with a "fuel cut" installed, which could be put up under the
> dash area or somewhere else out of the way.
> What would this be & what would it do? He sort of infered it protects
> against running too lean.
> Andrew
> Australia

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 07:09:55 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Shudder

Since the problem appears to be speed related perhaps it is a bent rim,
damaged tire or out of balance tire.

As to running less than 1/4 tank of fuel and hearing associated noises under
WOT, that's a sign that the fuel pump is being overworked.  It relies solely
on fuel to keep it cool.  Under cruise considtions this is normally okay but
at WOT the fuel pump is on most if not all of the time.  At 1/4 tank and
below the pump will be at least partially exposed to air and will not get
adequate cooling.


Regards,

Barry

> -----Original Message-----
> I have a question for our knowledgeable elite, and hope it isn't what I
> am thinking. Anyway, I am getting brief rear end shudder when I put my
> foot into it in 3rd at 2200RPM or thereabouts.  Is this to be expected
> (I'm still fine tuning my BC) or am I running into carrier bearing (or
> any number of of other possible problems ie, transfer case, etc)??? It
> doesn't seem reasonable to be encountering this at 40k kms...but there
> is no telling what the first 25 were like as I did not own it then.
> Again, it's brief, noticeable...smooths out, and then breifly occurs
> again about when I am having take my foot off to brake for damn corners
> we have around here.
>
> Comments please.
>
> Darc...............glad to be back

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 14:10:14 -0600
From: Jeff Crabtree <wjcrabtree@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Shudder

wce@bc.sympatico.ca wrote:

> Hi Team;
>
> <<SNIP>> I am getting brief rear end shudder when I put my
> foot into it in 3rd at 2200RPM or thereabouts.  Is this to be expected
> (I'm still fine tuning my BC) or am I running into carrier bearing (or
> any number of of other possible problems ie, transfer case, etc)???

I agree with an earlier post.  Start with your wheels and tires.  It's the most logical
place to begin and it's also probably the cheapest thing to check and/or fix if it does
turn out to be the culprit.  I had a tire that was "out of round" once that caused a
similar thing.  Even though the rim and tire had been balanced repeatedly, I still had a
vibration......new tires...problem gone.

Good luck, this is one of those hunt-and-peck problems.

- -Jeff Crabtree
    '91 R/T Turbo
        '93 Wrangler YJ
            St. Louis, MO


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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 13:44:58 -0800
From: "Errin D. Humphrey" <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Team3S: Underhood Temps

Could somebody please tell me what is the approximate
underhood temperature on a VR4?  Specifically the
temperature that is right above the rear turbo heat shield.
I bought some metal tape that I would like to use on the
hood insulator/shield since it tends to get incinerated.
The tape is not to be used on exhaust systems or any
area that exceeds 300 degrees F.

Thanks in advance!

- --Errin Humphrey
Yellow 94 VR4

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 01:12:28 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Underhood Temps

Errin,

No I don't have any temperature readings but I have a heat shield on the
innerside of the hood mounted. This is stock on the EU 3000GTs and I also think
I saw it on pictures from US cars (others ??). Mine never got incinerated but it
became oily once from the leaking oil cap. The heat then burnt the oil in into
the metallic shield. No big deal.

> The tape is not to be used on exhaust systems or any
> area that exceeds 300 degrees F.

I painted the IC pipe that goes from the rear turbo to the left IC with a 300°F
paint. I've never had any problem with this and that's where the heat is :)

Hope this helps a little,
Roger

- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)

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------------------------------

End of Team3S Digest V1 #41
***************************

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