--
From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #37
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
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Team3S Digest Tuesday,
December 1 1998 Volume 01 : Number
037
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 02:06:25 -0800
From: Dave Allison <dave@languys.com>
Subject: Team3S: AFC
vs. VPC
Can someone tell me the differences between the Apex'i AFC and
the HKS VPC?
My understanding is that the AFC adjusts the airflow signal
based only on RPM.
The VPC converts the stock air measurement system to a
"speed density
system" which has its own intake air temperature sensor and
absolute
pressure transducer (B-MAP sensor) signals.
It would seem
this unit measures the cooling effect of incoming air to
arrive at a certain
value and adjusts this with the intake manifold
pressure. Isn't this more
effective than the AFC? Why is it that everyone
seems to be only using the
AFC? Am I missing something besides the crazy
prices that HKS asks for this
unit?
What are the pros and cons of these two units?
Would it be
a good idea to invest in a Datalogger and a HKS VPC?
Thanks!
Dave
Allison
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:35:36 -0500
From: "Bob Fontana" <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: AFC vs. VPC
Dave,
Not owning an AFC, I can't speak
with any degree of authority about the
subject. However, the whole
purpose of the VPC is to replace the MAF
apparatus, allowing the restrictive
MAF opening to be completely removed.
In its place, you (usually) use dual
air filters that lead directly to the
turbos.
That is the sole purpose
of the VPC. Its output feeds the ECU with the same
signals that the MAF
would have produced, using its own temp and manifold
sensors.
The VPC
just happens to have some rough gain/response/idle knobs to adjust
fuel flow
to overcome static differences between firmware revision levels,
etc.
These are not, and were never intended to be used as tuning
implements.
The GCC is used for that. The GCC has fuel 6 fuel adjustment
knobs that
can be used to affect fuel delivery from 0 to 8750 RPM.
Adjustments from -12%
to +16% are available in 4% increments. I believe
that it is a "post"
processor, i.e., reads the speed density signals and RPM
and modifies the SD
voltages that would have otherwise gone to the ECU.
As for the AFC alone,
you keep the stock MAF (and its more restrictive
opening) and get RPM-based
tuning. It has been said that the AFC can adjust
fuel levels to the
point that the car will stall at idle. That sounds
pretty
adjustable.
The AFC can be substitued for the GCC. Because the AFC
allows the signal to
be adjusted a lot more than 16% in either direction of
"normal", it is
potentially a better fit for the VPC than the GCC.
Unlike the GCC however,
it isn't plug compatible.
The VPC comes with a
harness that fits '91-93 model years. It is possible
(although I don't
know of anyone who has) to wire a VPC to '94+ models.
Doing so isn't much
more complicated than wiring up an AFC in the first
place.
The whole
notion of using RPMs to drive fuel has come under fire (no
pun
intended). Is there an advantage to using air flow to optimize
fuel
delivery? Probably. In fact, that's what the ECU attempts to
do in the
first place. The problem is, with the stock fuel delivery
system, the
instant you step on the throttle and go under boost, the ECU
shifts from
doling out perfectly apportioned squirts of fuel for the current
amount of
air being processed to opening up the injectors to almost
static. With
stock injectors, this isn't much of a problem since
they're not capable of
flowing more than 360CC per minute each at 100% duty
cycle. The designers
of the motor arrived a decent sparkplug life (60K
miles) / performance
balance that would work for the amount of air that would
be processed with
the stock airbox, the stock exhaust, the stock turbos and
stock fuel
delivery.
What we are doing by adding more air is upsetting
the apple cart. More air
requires more fuel, granted. But with
bigger injectors, we end up with TOO
MUCH fuel when the ECU abandons its
accurate fuel portioning and opens the
injectors up. We somehow need to
let it "think" that everything's operating
within normal parameters.
The question is -- how do we tell the ECU that
we're using more
air?
1) you can measure the air and provide adjusted signals to the ECU
(just
like the stock MAF and the TRE MASC do) or
2) you can
extrapolate the amount of air based on the pre-measured engine
volumetrics
(incrementally measuring air flow at certain manifold pressures
and RPMs and
"burning" them into a map and use RPM as an index to
extrapolate the optimum
(acceptable) input of airflow for a given instant in
time.
I'd have to
think that even though the #2 method is simpler to implement in
firmware and
might operate faster on certain microprocessors, it isn't as
good as #1 since
volumetric efficiencies can change (head porting) and
manifold pressures and
RPMs can exceed the boundaries of the map. When that
happens, what
signal gets sent? Get the picture?
- -Bob
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:41:50 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: AFC vs. VPC
> Can someone tell me the differences between the
Apex'i AFC and the HKS VPC?
<snip>
You already figured them out
perfect :)
> It would seem this unit measures the cooling effect of
incoming air to
> arrive at a certain value and adjusts this with the
intake manifold
> pressure. Isn't this more effective than the
AFC?
It measures boost and temperature at the manifold where it is
important. This is
of course more effective but also more
complicated.
> Why is it that everyone seems to be only using the
AFC?
Cost ! The AFC is "only" around $260 while the VPC is located around
the $800 !
Of course you'll also get a speed converted system then while the
AFC keeps the
restrictive stock MAS.
> Am I missing something
besides the crazy
> prices that HKS asks for this unit?
I think Bob
Fontana is the VPC guru as I haven't installed it as it only lies
around at
the moment (missing parts).
> What are the pros and cons of these two
units?
The AFC is the cheapest and easiest fuel adjustment part
available. Easy to tune
in as it only intercepts the MAS signal and converts
it on rpm basis. As Barry
said it is very WOT related and my results where
good there. I have no bad
experience but, to be honest, it does not give you
all what is needed.
The VPC and the MASC both are removing the
restrictive stock MAS. The VPC
converts to speed density while the MASC is
still air-density related. The later
is maybe better for all-day driven cars
while the VPC is very track-oriented. I
think the VPC is also useable on the
street with proper tuning-in and the help
of the GCC or GCC II (another
expensive add-ons !) Finally, I think
reprogramming a VPC EPROM for each new
mod is too much and maybe also not
necessary (expect bigger injectors,
hehe).
> Would it be a good idea to invest in a Datalogger and a HKS
VPC?
I don't know of the datalogger yet but it is a good idea for non-ODB
cars. I got
the VPC as it is part of the GT-Alley setup. I think it is a
little bit outdated
and could be improved soon (look at the GCC II) ... but
then also price will be
improved !
- -----------------------
Roger
Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
K&N
FIPK,Magnecor wires,Blitz DSBC/gauge/Dual Timer,Apexi AFC,SBOV,
Visit my
homepage under: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:53:05 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: AFC vs. VPC
Ahhh, I knew Bob is the guru ;-)
>
implements. The GCC is used for that. The GCC has fuel 6 fuel
adjustment
> knobs that can be used to affect fuel delivery from 0 to 8750
RPM.
> Adjustments from -12% to +16% are available in 4% increments.
I believe
> that it is a "post" processor, i.e., reads the speed density
signals and RPM
> and modifies the SD voltages that would have otherwise
gone to the ECU.
Just for the understanding, the AFC and GCC are working
like an equalizer on
your stereo :)
The AFC has 5 adjustments that
allows to increase/decrease to A/F ratio by 30%
at 800,2400,4000,5600,7200
rpms. So if you set the 4000 and 5600 to -15% this
then means that on all
rpms between these points you'll have -15% A/F ratio
(leaner). The new GCC II
has 10 adjustments and is better designed than the
older one (IMHO)
-
-----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo
(Animale Rosso)
K&N FIPK,Magnecor wires,Blitz DSBC/gauge/Dual Timer,Apexi
AFC,SBOV,
Borla,OZ Mito2,Yoko AVS-Z1,braided brake lines,Bremsa brakes,Pagid
RS-R pads
Visit my homepage under: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 14:58:25 +0100
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mikael_=C5kesson?="
<vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: Team3S:
New Blitz BC
I was looking at Nexus site and found that Blitz now have a
new and very nice priced Boost controller.
http://www.nexusmotorsports.com/
This
is the info from the Nexus site:
The most economical electronic boost
controller available
anywhere! Features a high quality solenoid valve
for boost
control, this unit ensures increased boost response and
less
chance of boost spike. Two user programmable boost
settings
(high and low) are easily accessed by a single
button. Ease of
installation and wiring is a great benefit of
the SSBC. Good for up to
18 psi of boost!
[BL-14045] Fits 91+ 3000GT/Stealth AWD
Turbo $270
file://Mikael
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:06:24 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: New Blitz BC
Hey Mikael,
> I was looking at Nexus site
and found that Blitz now have a new and very nice
> priced Boost
controller.
The Street-Spec BC was already out in Japan as we got ours
installed :) I also
checked out the features before I ordered the DSBC and it
is definitely the
cheapest electronic boost controller but far away from the
DSBC.
I'm much more interested in the Boost Map Analyzer that can be
connected to the
DSBC.
Is anybody able to read and translate japanese
? :
http://www.blitz.co.jp/map/mapana/mapana.htm
-
-----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo
(Animale Rosso)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:38:09 +0100
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mikael_=C5kesson?="
<vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: Team3S:
Engine control system
Hi,
I'm developing a new engine management
system together with a company in Sweden that builds management systems for
rally and racing cars. (or more corectly they develope and I look how they do
and my car take all the punichment at the dyno :))
It will be a system
that removes the restrictive MAF so you can connect dual filters directly to the
turbos (MAP).
The system will be default programmed to fit stock turbos
and injectors but there is a upgrade patch with complete engine management with
both fuel and ignition control. This system will easily out perform anything
that is on the market for the 3S today (both MASC and VPC)
The system can
also be upgraded with features like boost control, water injection, and a
special "start" control that holds the car on a given RPM and have the ability
to build up the boost to 20 psi before start. Guess what that will do to your 60
foot times :)
The system is managed with a PC but there is also a "knob"
tuning device but that's more expensive than an old computer. It will have log
funtions and it's possible to upgrade it "live" without turning of the engine.
The system will use the stock sensors as much as possible therefore I
need info about the 94+ cars. Does anyone know if there is any differenc between
the 91-93 and 94+ cars regarding: watertemp, knock, trottle, crank shaft, cam
shaft and O2 sensors ????? Please give me all information you
have.
Please let me know if you are interested in more info about the
system, it will probably be ready for delivery early next year. We hope that the
system with the PC management program will cost under 1000$.
Regards
Mikael Akesson http://www.bahnhof.se/~vr4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:40:51 -0500
From: "Bob Fontana" <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Close call - my car was flamed
Yesterday I decided to see if the
motor would start and purposely left off
the wheels, axles and transfer case
just in case the whole motor came apart.
I temporarily hooked up the exhaust
to direct the fumes outside.
Before trying to fire the motor, I
disconnected all of the spark plug wires
from the coil pack and cranked the
motor for a couple of minutes to bring up
the oil pressure, draw fuel from
the tank, etc. While I was cranking, Geri
spotted a good-sized fuel
leak from the coupling between the hard line and
the fuel rail. I
turned off the key and investigated.
I guessed that it was caused by a
bad o-ring and proceded to remove the hard
line. I lost the lower 10MM
bolt into the gas-soaked valley which I had
attempted to sop up with a shop
rag. The rag was still under the coupling
to catch the remainder of
fuel that was dripping. I used a long telescope
magnet to try to
retrieve the bolt from under the intake manifold. Somehow
the handle of
the magnet touched the positive battery terminal and something
else and
sparks flew everywhere. The rag burst into flames and the gas in
the
valley ignited. Flames were coming from under the plenum. I
didn't
have an extinguisher and ran into the laundry room to begin filling
a
3-gallon mop bucket with water from the deep sink. While I was in
the
laundry room, the fire was burning away. Each 1/2 bucket I took out
to the
garage was spilling out through a crack that extended all the way
across the
bottom of the bucket. Every time I got the bucket to the
car, only about a
mouthful of water remained. The flames spilled
to the floor under the car
and I envisioned the gas tank and whole (immobile)
car blowing up just like
they always do in the movies. Meanwhile, Geri
had called 911 and the fire
department was still asking directions to our
house when the fire went out.
It sure wasn't by *my* doing (thank you
God).
Damage report: Slight. Only the knock sensor harness was
melted. Soot
easily cleaned up. This could have been a lot
worse.
First of all, I'm a big dumbass for not having any fire
extinguishers in the
house. Secondly, despite yearly trips to Navy
firefighting school in
Philadelphia, the thought of smothering a fire never
crossed my mind
(although we were taught how to put a diesel fuel fire out
with standard
fire hoses dumping about 2 inches of diesel fuel and water on
the floor of
this fake concrete ship and sending us in to put it
out).
So today I bought fire extinguishers for the kitchen, garage and
car. All
of them are dry chemical. I was hoping to find a
C02-based car version but
I don't think they are available commercially any
more.
I guess the moral of this is -- if you're going to fool around with
fuel and
sparks and other flammable things, get a fire extinguisher and have
it
handy.
And, by the way, after the excitement (and a one hour break
to gain my
composure) I turned the key and the engine roared to life with not
as much
as a hiccup!
The Beast lives!
- -Bob
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:01:11 -0600
From: Jeff Crabtree <wjcrabtree@sprintmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Close call - my car was flamed
Bob Fontana wrote:
>
<<<SNIP>>> The rag burst into flames and the gas in
>
the valley ignited. Flames were coming from under the plenum.
<<<SNIP>>>
Glad to hear you and your car are ok
Bob. That really could have been diasterous. A
similar thing
happend to an old neighbor of mine a few years back and his whole
house
burned down. Count yourself lucky!
- -Jeff
Crabtree
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:09:38 -0800
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Turbo advice...
Howdy folks...
First off, I'd like to
thank Bob, Barry, Mike, Peter, and Adam for your
advice on 15G turbos, you
guys are GREAT!!!
Second, I want to thank Ying Hau Wang, Erin, and
friends for the hospitality
last night. We had a wonderful dinner swapping
stories about mods...past,
present, and future. Four TTs lined up was a
beautiful sight!!! Teri and I
drove to Seattle to buy a car load of parts Hau
had stripped off his TT
Stealth. I'm now the proud owner of a set (not
installed) of TEC 15Gs. Along
with them came a set of 560 injectors, fuel
pump, intercoolers, BOV, gauges,
etc. Everything I need to make Beastie the
monster he deserves to be. :-)
The package even came with an extra
clutch, which I'm afraid I may be
needing when I get done with these
mods.
Sadly enough Hau is departing for Brazil this morning. I can't say
I've ever
met a group of young folks so knowledgeable about our cars, or so
polite and
helpful. Hau's departure brings sadness, but he's headed off to be
engaged.
I wish him the best of everything.
Erin, please send me your
e-mail address, so we can keep in touch about
tires/wheels and further
exhaust mods.
For those of you wondering about boost, I'm now happily
running 1.0bar
(almost 15psi) and played with WOT in every gear yesterday on
the open
highway. Great power, I ate up several attempted contests, without
shifting
down. Amazingly enough, the one tankful I calculated was just over
21mpg.
I've been using 92 pump octane, with a couple bottles of 108 octane
boost.
It's difficult to imagine the larger injectors and turbos. Now I have
an
idea why Arty has had trouble keeping his rubber planted. I envy the
buyer
who gets his VR4. Even more is the image of a 8 second VR4, even if
it's not
streetable.
Looking forward...Chris
1995 Glacier Pearl
White VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:27:17 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Speedo accuracy, was TRE MASC
>
> >
Also...after this talk of advanced tuning on the 3k's and blown up
>
>motors, Iv got a strange problem: My spedometer reads from 10-15
mph
> >slower than actual speed. This was verified by "tailing"
other cars at
> >a set speed, and by "time per distance" on the highway
markers. If
> >anyone can give me a list of possible causes, Id
love to hear it.
Check out http://www.3si.org, Tech Tips & tricks, Speedo
Accuracy. However, it talks
about the correction if the speedometer
reads too high.
Good luck.
- --
Ken Middaugh
General
Atomics
San Diego
(619) 455-4510
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:39:03 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Engine control system
This sounds good. There are about a dozen or
so systems I can think of off
the top of my head that actually do this and
are available for the 3000
however, including anti-lags devices.
What
will make yours different from them? That doesn't sound very good :)
I
don't mean to downplay your project! Your's sounds like it has
everything
the rest do and at a very competitive price.
Does the
company have a website? Will the system use 3D maps for fuel
and
ignition? This is a "pet subject" of mine.
There are several
systems out of Australia, one from Canada, a few from
Italy and Germany
(those latter ones are pricey) and of course there is
Haltech, Motec and
TEC-II plus a bunch of others here in the US that can be
adapted to the
3000.
Regards,
Barry
> Please let me know if you are
interested in more info about the
> system, it will probably be ready for
delivery early next year.
> We hope that the system with the PC management
program will cost
> under 1000$.
>
> Regards
>
>
Mikael Akesson http://www.bahnhof.se/~vr4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:43:43 -0500
From: "Theiss, Charles" <charles.theiss@lmco.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Close call - my car was flamed
Congrats on bringing the beast
back to life, and the lesson you learned was
not to expensive. The main
thing is that you are okay and the beast is
ready to roll.
>
----------
> From: Bob Fontana[SMTP:bfontana@securitytechnologies.com]
>
Reply To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 1998 11:40 AM
> To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
Subject: Team3S: Close call - my car was flamed
>
> Yesterday I
decided to see if the motor would start and purposely left off
> the
wheels, axles and transfer case just in case the whole motor came
>
apart.
> I temporarily hooked up the exhaust to direct the fumes
outside.
>
> Before trying to fire the motor, I disconnected all of
the spark plug
> wires
> from the coil pack and cranked the motor
for a couple of minutes to bring
> up
> the oil pressure, draw fuel
from the tank, etc. While I was cranking,
> Geri
> spotted a
good-sized fuel leak from the coupling between the hard line and
> the
fuel rail. I turned off the key and investigated.
>
> I
guessed that it was caused by a bad o-ring and proceded to remove the
>
hard
> line. I lost the lower 10MM bolt into the gas-soaked valley
which I had
> attempted to sop up with a shop rag. The rag was still
under the coupling
> to catch the remainder of fuel that was
dripping. I used a long telescope
> magnet to try to retrieve the
bolt from under the intake manifold.
> Somehow
> the handle of the
magnet touched the positive battery terminal and
> something
> else
and sparks flew everywhere. The rag burst into flames and the gas
in
> the valley ignited. Flames were coming from under the
plenum. I didn't
> have an extinguisher and ran into the laundry
room to begin filling a
> 3-gallon mop bucket with water from the deep
sink. While I was in the
> laundry room, the fire was burning
away. Each 1/2 bucket I took out to
> the
> garage was
spilling out through a crack that extended all the way across
>
the
> bottom of the bucket. Every time I got the bucket to the car,
only about
> a
> mouthful of water remained. The flames
spilled to the floor under the
> car
> and I envisioned the gas tank
and whole (immobile) car blowing up just
> like
> they always do in
the movies. Meanwhile, Geri had called 911 and the fire
> department
was still asking directions to our house when the fire went
> out.
>
It sure wasn't by *my* doing (thank you God).
>
> Damage report:
Slight. Only the knock sensor harness was melted. Soot
>
easily cleaned up. This could have been a lot worse.
>
>
First of all, I'm a big dumbass for not having any fire extinguishers in
>
the
> house. Secondly, despite yearly trips to Navy firefighting
school in
> Philadelphia, the thought of smothering a fire never crossed
my mind
> (although we were taught how to put a diesel fuel fire out with
standard
> fire hoses dumping about 2 inches of diesel fuel and water on
the floor of
> this fake concrete ship and sending us in to put it
out).
>
> So today I bought fire extinguishers for the kitchen,
garage and car. All
> of them are dry chemical. I was hoping
to find a C02-based car version
> but
> I don't think they are
available commercially any more.
>
> I guess the moral of this is
-- if you're going to fool around with fuel
> and
> sparks and other
flammable things, get a fire extinguisher and have it
> handy.
>
> And, by the way, after the excitement (and a one hour break to gain
my
> composure) I turned the key and the engine roared to life with not as
much
> as a hiccup!
>
> The Beast lives!
>
>
-Bob
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:51:48 -0800
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Close call - my car was flamed
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Bob Fontana [mailto:bfontana@securitytechnologies.com]
Sent:
Monday, November 30, 1998 8:41 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S: Close call - my car was flamed
<snip>
And, by the
way, after the excitement (and a one hour break to gain my
composure) I
turned the key and the engine roared to life with not as much
as a
hiccup!
The Beast lives!
- -Bob
<end of
snip>
Bob...
Lucky man, I'd hate to hear all that effort when
down the drain!!!
Looking forward...Chris
P.S...I keep a fire
extinguisher in the trunk of every car, garage, and
kitchen. I just hope I
don't panic if I ever need them and forget where they
are. :-)
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 19:15:03 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mikael_=C5kesson?=
<vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Close call - my car was flamed
- ------
=_NextPart_000_01BE1C95.BC313980
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Hmmm
Close call Bob!
Earlier today I sent this mail to Roger Gerl:
"BTW
the other day my car did a "Roger Gerl Special" :) In other words: =
It
cought fire !!! Big nice orange flames from under the hood... SCAAARY
=
!!!
Exact on the same place that your fire started, behind the rear
bank. =
The reason was a cotton cloth. I'm not sure if I forgot the cloth
there =
when I changed the plugs but I don't think spo because that was
during =
the summer so it would probably have cought fire a long time ago if
that =
was the case.
The good thing was that I had my viper/wash fluid
tank loose so I could =
use it to kill the fire. I guess that I shall invest
in a real fire =
exstinguisher."
No problems with the car
:)
Hmm I hope this isn't a new "hot" trend :)
/Mikael
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Fontana [SMTP:bfontana@securitytechnologies.com]
Sent:
Monday, November 30, 1998 5:41 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S: Close call - my car was flamed
Yesterday I decided to see if the
motor would start and purposely left =
off
the wheels, axles and transfer
case just in case the whole motor came =
apart.
I temporarily hooked up
the exhaust to direct the fumes outside.
Before trying to fire the motor,
I disconnected all of the spark plug =
wires
from the coil pack and
cranked the motor for a couple of minutes to =
bring up
the oil pressure,
draw fuel from the tank, etc. While I was cranking, =
Geri
spotted a
good-sized fuel leak from the coupling between the hard line =
and
the
fuel rail. I turned off the key and investigated.
I guessed that it
was caused by a bad o-ring and proceded to remove the =
hard
line. I
lost the lower 10MM bolt into the gas-soaked valley which I had
attempted to
sop up with a shop rag. The rag was still under the =
coupling
to
catch the remainder of fuel that was dripping. I used a long
=
telescope
magnet to try to retrieve the bolt from under the intake
manifold. =
Somehow
the handle of the magnet touched the positive
battery terminal and =
something
else and sparks flew everywhere.
The rag burst into flames and the gas =
in
the valley ignited.
Flames were coming from under the plenum. I didn't
have an extinguisher
and ran into the laundry room to begin filling a
3-gallon mop bucket with
water from the deep sink. While I was in the
laundry room, the fire was
burning away. Each 1/2 bucket I took out to =
the
garage was
spilling out through a crack that extended all the way across =
the
bottom
of the bucket. Every time I got the bucket to the car, only =
about
a
mouthful of water remained. The flames spilled to the floor
under the =
car
and I envisioned the gas tank and whole (immobile) car
blowing up just =
like
they always do in the movies. Meanwhile, Geri
had called 911 and the =
fire
department was still asking directions to
our house when the fire went =
out.
It sure wasn't by *my* doing (thank
you God).
Damage report: Slight. Only the knock sensor harness was
melted. Soot
easily cleaned up. This could have been a lot
worse.
First of all, I'm a big dumbass for not having any fire
extinguishers in =
the
house. Secondly, despite yearly trips to Navy
firefighting school in
Philadelphia, the thought of smothering a fire never
crossed my mind
(although we were taught how to put a diesel fuel fire out
with standard
fire hoses dumping about 2 inches of diesel fuel and water on
the floor =
of
this fake concrete ship and sending us in to put it
out).
So today I bought fire extinguishers for the kitchen, garage and
car. =
All
of them are dry chemical. I was hoping to find a
C02-based car version =
but
I don't think they are available commercially
any more.
I guess the moral of this is -- if you're going to fool around
with fuel =
and
sparks and other flammable things, get a fire extinguisher
and have it
handy.
And, by the way, after the excitement (and a one
hour break to gain my
composure) I turned the key and the engine roared to
life with not as =
much
as a hiccup!
The Beast lives!
-
-Bob
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is =
- ------
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-
------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1C95.BC313980--
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 19:40:16 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mikael_=C5kesson?=
<vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Engine control system
- ------
=_NextPart_000_01BE1C99.42213880
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Hi
Barry,
Yeah you are right (as allways :) there are alot of systems like
this on =
the market. (But i never found any that are ready for the
3S)
The good thing with this one is that I work direct with the
manufacturer =
with is very good because I can get the system as I/we want it
and the =
price will be nice. It's a small company that is focused on small
series =
and special cars and they can give us a very quick respons if we
want to =
change anything in the system.
I looked at ~10 other systems
(electromotive, haltech, hestech etc etc) =
but there was no other that could
match the price/performance of this =
system.=20
Another good thing is
that it can use the stock sensors and that will =
ofcourse make the price low
and nice but almost more important for most =
possible buyer, the
installation will be very easy. Just plug and play =
(allmost)
If this
system shall be used by the 100% performance guys like You and =
Fontana etc
then maybe the best thing is to change the crank shaft =
sensor to a
better/higher resolution.=20
Sorry to say that I haven't answers to all
questions right now but I'll =
let you know ASAP when I have more
information.=20
Regards
Mikael Akesson
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry E. King [SMTP:beking@home.com]
Sent: Monday,
November 30, 1998 6:39 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Engine control system
This sounds good. There are about
a dozen or so systems I can think of =
off
the top of my head that
actually do this and are available for the 3000
however, including anti-lags
devices.
What will make yours different from them? That doesn't
sound very good =
:)
I don't mean to downplay your project! Your's
sounds like it has =
everything
the rest do and at a very competitive
price.
Does the company have a website? Will the system use 3D maps
for fuel =
and
ignition? This is a "pet subject" of
mine.
There are several systems out of Australia, one from Canada, a few
from
Italy and Germany (those latter ones are pricey) and of course there
is
Haltech, Motec and TEC-II plus a bunch of others here in the US that can
=
be
adapted to the 3000.
Regards,
Barry
>
Please let me know if you are interested in more info about the
> system,
it will probably be ready for delivery early next year.
> We hope that the
system with the PC management program will cost
> under
1000$.
>
> Regards
>
> Mikael Akesson http://www.bahnhof.se/~vr4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is =
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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-
------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1C99.42213880--
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:35:53 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Engine control system
> I looked at ~10 other systems
(electromotive, haltech, hestech etc etc) but
> there was no other that
could match the price/performance of this system.
Yes, it is hard to find
a system that fulfills all our needs, especially for
turbo cars. I found a
lot about the V-tec Hondas as well about the big-bore
muscle cars. Especially
for NOS and Supercharger cars there are systems
available to control the
timing and NOS, but, interestingly, none of the systems
controls the boost
nor take care of it.
Now we know that there are systems like the
MASC/AFC/VPC that take care of the
air and control the fuel delivery. Then
there are systems like the
ITC/Automotive/Haltech than controls the timing.
The last ones also can be
enhanced to control the fuel as well. But none of
them controls the boost or is
set up properly for our cars.
Here the
idea kicks in to develop an own system that finally is made or at
least
adapted to our cars. Replacing the MAS by a less restrictive system,
controlling
fuel & timing as well as boost will be the perfect solution !
But what happens
if a new IC is added or bigger turbos ? How do we tune our
cars in. We europeans
have the advantage of many AWD dynos to tune the stuff
in but this becomes
expensive over the time :( A preset device would be nice.
Just something to
start with but already includes all the neccessary warning
and limiting
functions. A self learning system like the AVC-R makes
everything easy and gives
good performance. With a more handy tool like the
DSBC the most can be achieved
out of the system but it's not easy to set it
up. A combination would be great.
For sure I'm looking forward to hear
more about this. For me I'd never develop
such a system because I do not
understand enough of timing and fuel maps ! I'll
go on with the diag tool and
use some more sensors (temp and boost). With the
controller I'm using I can
control some things (like the idea of the emergency
wastegate opener) but it
is not able to act fast enough and it will only be used
as an on-board
diagnostic tool.
- -----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:08:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Dennis Moore <stealth@kiva.net>
Subject: Team3S:
Radio Interference Question
Hi all,
I recently (finally?) got a
cell phone, and now I'm getting some
mysterious thumping coming through my
stereo system. My phone is one of
the hand-held units, and I power it
with a cigadapter. I think I've
detected a trend: when the signal
strength changes, I get a burst of
"thumps". It sounds a lot like
someone quickly rapping on a microphone,
and is fairly loud. (Of
course, my volume knob is usually turned up
pretty loud...) It doesn't
matter whether I'm listening to cassette,
radio, or CD player.
So my
question is: do any of you have any suggestions on how to eliminate
this
thumping? Is there a filter I can/should install? Should I
replace
the phone? I've talked to the company I bought the phone from,
but they
haven't been much help yet.
Thanks.
Dennis Moore
stealth@kiva.net
There are no *stupid*
people in this world, only *ignorant* ones.
Ignorance is a good problem,
because the application of accurate
information can help people get over
it.
However, ignorance combined with arrogance closely resembles
stupidity.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:43:46 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Engine control system
When you say control the boost, I presume you are
wanting an ECM that also
contains boost control component.
The Haltech
and many of the others I have looked at do work well in a forced
induction
application. Boost is controlled via an external
boost
controller. All boost means to an engine is more airflow and any
ECM that
controls fuel is programmable based on airflow in some manner or
another.
Many of them also have external triggers that can control solenoids
based on
certain conditions which could be used to control boost.
In
other words, controlling boost really is not important if it is
controlled
externally. It seems that it is favorable to remove timing and
keep
airflow at a maximum than it is is to reduce aiflow. All of the
good
system do this.
However, I also share your desire to have an ECM
that is more customized
toward the 3000. I have researched this for
many months and even have some
design work accomplished. The ultimate
problem as you point out is access
to a dyno for proper tuning. The
stock ECM really isn't that bad, it is
just that it was never intended for
use at the extremes some of us are
pushing the with the 3000.
Techtom
has a number of (very expensive) tools which will allow dynamic
tuning on the
fly as well as reprogramming of the stock ECU. These tools
are
overpriced for what they are. For instance, just the daughter card
that
replaces the PLCC is $360 US. That's for about $10 worth of
components and
technology that isn't even patentable. The software is
simplistic. I'd
love to have it but not for the prices they want ($1600
or so for the
reprogrammer, $6500 for the laptop real-time programmer).
I realize that
Techtom must recoup their R&D costs for what is likely a
small market but
some of their software cuild be written in a matter of
days.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On
Behalf Of R.G.
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 1998 1:36 PM
> To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Engine control system
<snip>
> Yes,
it is hard to find a system that fulfills all our needs,
> especially
for
> turbo cars.
<snip>
> Especially for NOS and
Supercharger cars there are systems
> available to control the timing and
NOS, but, interestingly, none
> of the systems
> controls the boost
nor take care of it.
>
> Now we know that there are systems like the
MASC/AFC/VPC that
> take care of the
> air and control the fuel
delivery. Then there are systems like the
> ITC/Automotive/Haltech than
controls the timing. The last ones also can be
> enhanced to control the
fuel as well. But none of them controls
> the boost or is
> set up
properly for our cars.
<snip>
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 16:28:48 -0800
From: "GT ALLEY" <thegtalley@email.msn.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Engine control system
Hi guys, just jumping in mid-steam. We
have been involved with the Haltech
route for 94'up 3000's for sometime now
and we feel that it works very well.
Not to say that some of the other
companies don't have a viable product, but
for us the Haltech works great.
There will be a new unit that will be
released in about 6 months that will be
very similar to the "Rolls Royce" of
engine management systems "Motec". Many
have not heard of Motec, but it is
because they are VERY expensive, and not
too many people with experience
tuning it. The new Haltech unit will have a
very valuable thing, "sequential
injection". Sequential is very nice to have
in a case that you want to run
real big injectors and you would also like to
make the car idle well. There
are some other real neat things that I agreed
not to tell, but let me assure
you, Haltech is hard at work. Something that I
personally like about the
Haltech is that once properly installed it is
virtually undetectable (looks
stock) under the hood. Also their software is
not tooo hard to use, although
it does take some time to get used to it as
with anything. One thing that is
absolutely mandatory in tuning a vehicle is
a "Motec Meter", this device
gives you a precise tuning tool to allow you to
see exactly where the A/F
ratio is. It uses a Lambda sensor and is very
accurate. Most people are also
convinced that to tune a car properly, you
must have the car on the dyno,
this is where I disagree. Tuning on the dyno
is fine for 3rd gear WOT, but
it does not allow you to tune all the nuances
such as stop and go traffic,
stop light to stoplight etc. all the things that
make driving your car
pleasurable. Light cruise for instance, if you are not
tuned right the car
gets horrible gas mileage, and sometimes if really tuned
bad, surges and
drives bad. These are all things to consider, as most of you
drive your cars
and don't drag race the car only. If you intend on a "drag
only" car, then
you only need throttle response, and
WOT.
Thanks,
Brian@
The GT ALLEY
3/S Performance Central
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry E. King <beking@home.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date:
Monday, November 30, 1998 12:42 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Engine control
system
>When you say control the boost, I presume you are wanting
an ECM that also
>contains boost control component.
>
>The
Haltech and many of the others I have looked at do work well in
a
forced
>induction application. Boost is controlled via an
external boost
>controller. All boost means to an engine is more
airflow and any ECM that
>controls fuel is programmable based on airflow
in some manner or another.
>Many of them also have external triggers that
can control solenoids based
on
>certain conditions which could be used
to control boost.
>
>In other words, controlling boost really is not
important if it is
>controlled externally. It seems that it is
favorable to remove timing and
>keep airflow at a maximum than it is is to
reduce aiflow. All of the good
>system do
this.
>
>However, I also share your desire to have an ECM that is
more customized
>toward the 3000. I have researched this for many
months and even have some
>design work accomplished. The ultimate
problem as you point out is access
>to a dyno for proper tuning. The
stock ECM really isn't that bad, it is
>just that it was never intended
for use at the extremes some of us are
>pushing the with the
3000.
>
>Techtom has a number of (very expensive) tools which will
allow dynamic
>tuning on the fly as well as reprogramming of the stock
ECU. These tools
>are overpriced for what they are. For
instance, just the daughter card
that
>replaces the PLCC is $360
US. That's for about $10 worth of components and
>technology that
isn't even patentable. The software is simplistic. I'd
>love
to have it but not for the prices they want ($1600 or so for
the
>reprogrammer, $6500 for the laptop real-time programmer). I
realize that
>Techtom must recoup their R&D costs for what is likely a
small market but
>some of their software cuild be written in a matter of
days.
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Barry
>
>>
-----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>>
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On
Behalf Of R.G.
>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 1998 1:36 PM
>>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Engine control
system
>
><snip>
>
>> Yes, it is hard to find a
system that fulfills all our needs,
>> especially for
>> turbo
cars.
>
><snip>
>
>> Especially for NOS and
Supercharger cars there are systems
>> available to control the timing
and NOS, but, interestingly, none
>> of the systems
>>
controls the boost nor take care of it.
>>
>> Now we know that
there are systems like the MASC/AFC/VPC that
>> take care of
the
>> air and control the fuel delivery. Then there are systems like
the
>> ITC/Automotive/Haltech than controls the timing. The last ones
also can
be
>> enhanced to control the fuel as well. But none of
them controls
>> the boost or is
>> set up properly for our
cars.
>
><snip>
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 19:46:28 -0600
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re:
AFC vs. VPC
R.G. wrote:
> > Apex'i AFC and the HKS VPC?
>
> Why is it that everyone seems to be only using the AFC?
> Cost ! AFC
"only" $260 while VPC around $800!
> Of course you'll also get speed
converted system then; AFC keeps
> restrictive stock MAS.
>
> What pros and cons of these units?
> AFC cheapest/easiest fuel
adjustment part available. Easy to tune
> in as it only intercepts the MAS
signal and converts it on rpm basis.
> is very WOT related; my results
were good there. I have no bad
> experience it does not give all what is
needed.
> VPC and MASC both remove restrictive stock MAS. VPC
>
converts to speed density while MASC still air-density. The latter
> is
maybe better for all-day driven cars while VPC is very track-oriented. I
>
think the VPC is also useable on the street with proper tuning-in and the
help
> of the GCC or GCC II. I think
> reprogramming VPC EPROM
for each new mod is too much
> Roger Gerl, Switzerland
I have good
experience/success with VPC+GCC. Part of reason AFC is used
is that for
94+ the VPC can't be used unless modified (different molex
connectors on
94+). I don't know of anyone who has put VPC on 94+,
prolly someone
has. VPC does get rid of restrictive MAS device, so
improving
output of turbo (higher pressure available to inlets of
turbo
compressors). The stock computer uses the O2 sensors to adjust
the mix
when at partthrottle, so any adjustments you make with it (OR with
an
AFC or MASC) are partly ignored by ECU computer...AFC can adjust SO
wide
a range it can go outside stock computer's adjust RANGE which is
why
people can 'shut the engine off' by leaning AFC out so badly at
idle
etc. BUT the main place these adjusts come into play is at
wideopen
throttle, when computer is ignoring O2 sensor and only running
on
internal map, so VPC/AFC/MASC settings are used in
their
purest/unadulterated-by-O2 sensor-adjustments form.
The VPC
works well on the street. My car drives normally like any other
car,
except for the occasional wandering idle speed. It also works
great for
racing; you can also speak to Dave Buschur at
Buschurracing.com who always
has, and continues to, swear by the VPC as
his fuel management device of
choice for DSM's. Todd Day's datalogger
would be a great thing to
have... I have never had to change chips for
different mods. I
got one chip which was 'leaner' and one that is
'richer'.
Jack
Tertadian
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 21:44:21 -0500
From: "Bob Fontana" <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Need help identifying part
Hi all. I ended up with only 3
parts left over in my whole rebuild.
They are these rubber coated washers
that I had put into a freezer bag along
with the 2 shifter cable cotter pins
and labeled it "Shifter cables". Well,
when I try to put even one of
these washer/bushing things on to the shift
lever attached to the gearbox, it
takes up so much room (side to side) that
I can't get the cotter pin
on. It doesn't press fit into the shifter cable
end itself (or doesn't
seem to). I was wondering if you remember where they
go. Also,
the fact that there were only 3 rather than 4 is sort of
odd...did I (or some
previous flunkie) lose one?
The washer itself has a flat part like a
normal washer but then has a
smaller ring around the center on just one side
that looks like it ought to
press fit into the shift cable end. The
outer edge of the washer is covered
with rubber.
- -Bob
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 22:38:09 -0500
From: "Bill Miller" <millebi@kw.igs.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Radio Interference Question
There's a (possibly) simple
explination for this... (and I may be wrong too!)
Celular phones do not
have continuously adjustable power strengths. They have a number of
fixed
power levels that are controlled by the microprocessor and the "base station"
(Cel
tower). As the phone signal strength varies, the tower will tell your
phone to increase
or decrease it's strength as needed. You mention that the
noise only seems to happen when
the signal strength changes. I am guessing
that your phone is creating a bit of
interference through the cigarette
lighter power and affecting your stereo as it's
jumping between different
power settings.
Now ... assuming that you only get the noise when you
have the phone plugged into the
lighter socket, there is a simple fix.
Install a EMF/EMI noise filter on the cigarette
lighter power wires (watch
the current rating here!). This should fix the problem. (You
could also
install a filter on your stereo.. [stock stereo would be a pain] what ever is
easier)
Another option is to try replacing your car adapter with
another one... most adapters
already have the noise filter in them and yours
may be bad.
Bill
91 TT "Old Red"
On 30 Nov 98, at 15:08,
Dennis Moore wrote:
> I recently (finally?) got a cell phone, and now
I'm getting some
> mysterious thumping coming through my stereo
system. My phone is one of
> the hand-held units, and I power it
with a cigadapter. I think I've
> detected a trend: when the signal
strength changes, I get a burst of
> "thumps". It sounds a lot like
someone quickly rapping on a microphone,
> and is fairly loud. (Of
course, my volume knob is usually turned up
> pretty loud...) It
doesn't matter whether I'm listening to cassette,
> radio, or CD
player.
>
> So my question is: do any of you have any suggestions
on how to eliminate
> this thumping? Is there a filter I can/should
install? Should I replace
> the phone? I've talked to the
company I bought the phone from, but they
> haven't been much help
yet.
> Thanks.
>
> Dennis Moore
Humpty Dumpty was
pushed...
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 21:56:28 -0500
From: "Ron-a-roid" <rtetetet@email.msn.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Engine control system
Yes I would be interested and the time
frame would be great for me. I am
sorting out me and the car now so by then I
will be looking for better
management. Please keep me
posted.
Ron
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Nov 1998 22:41:31 -0800
From: Dave Allison <dave@languys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Engine control system
At 06:38 AM 11/30/98 , you wrote:
>The system
can also be upgraded with features like boost control, water
>injection,
and a special "start" control that holds the car on a given RPM
>and have
the ability to build up the boost to 20 psi before start. Guess
>what
that will do to your 60 foot times :)
This is cool beyond words.
:)
>The system will use the stock sensors as much as possible
therefore I need
>info about the 94+ cars. Does anyone know if there is
any differenc between
>the 91-93 and 94+ cars regarding: watertemp,
knock, trottle, crank shaft,
>cam shaft and O2 sensors ????? Please give
me all information you have.
Will there be a version for 1st gen cars
also?
>Please let me know if you are interested in more info about the
system, it
>will probably be ready for delivery early next year. We hope
that the system
>with the PC management program will cost under
1000$.
I'll be the first in line with my money if there is a 91-93
version also.
Could you simultaneaously develop both
versions?
Thanks!
Dave Allison
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 1 Dec 1998 01:03:08 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: RE:
Anti-lag devices (WAS: Engine control system)
I presume some sort of
anti-lag device will be used, which is common
practice in turbocharged rally
cars. Boost won't get built up without
engine load.
What sort of
system will be used? There are a few I am aware of. One is
to
retard the timing a lot (I have heard up to 40 degrees) and keep
the
throttle plate open. This has the effect of igniting the fuel in
the
exhaust manifold and lettings lots of raw fuel hit presumably hot
manifolds.
This post-chamber combustion causes the turbines to spin.
The problem with
this method is that it takes a very beefy exhaust system to
handle the
combustion in the exhaust system. Most stock systems likely
wouldn't last
more than a few minutes. Also the raw fuel will
eventually do in a
catalytic converter although that likely isn't a major
concern for
track-only or non-compliant emissions cars.
Another
approach is to inject fuel directly into the exhaust system where it
ignites
on a already hot manifold. I am not aware of any manufacturers
using
this method but have heard that it exists.
Another idea I saw was to
place air jets into the turbine housing. These
jets would be fed by an
electric air pump which would spin the turbines.
Again, I know of no
manufacturers using this method.
Are there other
methods?
Regards,
Barry
> >The system can also be
upgraded with features like boost control, water
> >injection, and a
special "start" control that holds the car on a
> given RPM
>
>and have the ability to build up the boost to 20 psi before start.
Guess
> >what that will do to your 60 foot times :)
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------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:18:42 +0100
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mikael_=C5kesson?="
<vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Engine control system
Dave Allison Wrote: <dave@languys.com>
>Will there be
a version for 1st gen cars also?
Dave, As my car is a first gen (93)
the system (prototype) will be built on a first gen 3000GT. I asked about the
sensors for 94+ because I don't know anyone in Sweden that have a 94+ car that I
can examine. I guess that the guys that have 94+ cars are more interested in a
system like this because they cant use the HKS VPC system. My goal is that the
system will work on all 3S cars 91-99.
/Mikael
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------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 01 Dec 1998 09:29:56 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Radio Interference Question
Dennis,
Your problem is
very common with digital cell phones like we are using in
Europe. For me it's
like a remote ringer in the stereo when the sound is louder
than the cell
phones ringer ;-)
> So my question is: do any of you have any
suggestions on how to eliminate
> this thumping? Is there a filter I
can/should install? Should I replace
> the phone? I've talked
to the company I bought the phone from, but they
> haven't been much help
yet.
Well, I asked the same and what helped a little was to make a better
ground
connection to the amplifiers case. But if the antenna points towards
the stereo
(when lying in the armrest) an incomming call or switching to
another network is
very noticeable.
Sorry, no solution on
this.
Roger
- -----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
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------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 01 Dec 1998 09:38:59 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: RE: Anti-lag devices (WAS: Engine control system)
> Are there
other methods?
A rally company in Switzerland developed a well working
turbo-hybrid system and
incooperates a heat resistant e-motor to the turbine.
Of course the design is
very different of the turbine housing but it works
good. Unfortunately, no space
in our cars :(
The system has been built
into a Celica GT-Four and works wonders. The e-motor
is controlled by the ECU
that also acts as the BC and in low rpms as well as
during shifting the
turbine speed will be held up to provide the appropriate
boost when needed
(sounds great). The system uses an external wastegate as well
as a good BOV
system that is also controlled by the ECU (boost is measured
before and after
the TB and the BOV is controlled to release too much bosot
whenever
necessary). Very tricky.
Cheers, Roger
-
-----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo
(Animale Rosso)
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------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 01 Dec 1998 22:21:20 +1100
From: Andrew Clark <chemist1@ozemail.com.au>
Subject:
Team3S: Octane rating for VR4
Can anyone tell me the preffered octane
rating for the VR4, imparticular
when running a higher boost. Barry had
suggested to use a highest
quality fuel available. After emailing Shell in
Australia they tell me
their premium unleaded fuel, which is what I have been
using has a
rating of 96. They didnt advise as to how they arrived at this
figure.
Any thoughts?
Andrew
Australia
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------------------------------
End
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