--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #36
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Team3S Digest        Monday, November 30 1998        Volume 01 : Number 036




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Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 23:52:10 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Which cat-back

> I almoast forgot,  What is the general thought on the Borla Exhaust for
> the TT's?

IMHO, the Borla is a good thing taht fits very well and sounds great ... after
3000rpms ! Below this, around crusing speeds, there is a deep rumble that is too
loud and is getting annoying over a longer period. Also the joint to the stock
cat is well sized but will be too small for a bigger dp/cat combo. it then is a
restriction, although not a big one :) Fitting and quality is very good. For the
Power... who knows for sure. I haven't felt a difference nor did I found better
figures on the dyno (with dp/cat).

> only planning on doing the complete exhaust, airfilter, boost, and?
> what else is necessary at this point? fuel pump? How far can you go on
> stock injectors?

Well, doing the complete exhaust means also gutting the front cats and getting
rid of the main cat. But I doubt that this will really free up more than 10
horses if you're still running the stock turbos. Maybe you'll loose some tourque
as well. Filter is ok and boost is the key. Just follow the last threads and
you'll find that boost should be limited to 16psi to be save. With this the
stock injectors should be enough. I've tested the car on the dyno up to
continous 1.05bars/15.2psi around 5600 (close to knock) and the A/F ratio was
still on the rich side. This allowed us to reduce the mixture with the help of
the AFC what resulted in a gain of 7 to 10hp and still on the save rich side.

> sorry for the "basic" questions, but I haven't found a good site with
> solid modifying information "staged upgrades" on the 3k's.

Check out my pages to see the Borla installation :)

- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
K&N FIPK,Magnecor wires,Blitz DSBC/gauge/Dual Timer,Apexi AFC,SBOV,
Borla,OZ Mito2,Yoko AVS-Z1,braided brake lines,Bremsa brakes,Pagid RS-R pads

Visit my homepage under: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/
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Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 23:54:16 +0000
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Hey George,

>   I was wondering do you still have your stock 460cc injectors?  I
> would like to purchase it from you if they are still available.  Thanx.

Yes, but they are in the car :) As the project will not be continued until next
year, I will still run with them. Furthermore, I'm noit sure what the flow rate
really is and I'll first test one whenever I replace them.

Cheers, Roger

- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
K&N FIPK,Magnecor wires,Blitz DSBC/gauge/Dual Timer,Apexi AFC,SBOV,
Borla,OZ Mito2,Yoko AVS-Z1,braided brake lines,Bremsa brakes,Pagid RS-R pads

Visit my homepage under: http://www.geX-Mozilla-Status: 0009Speedway/9589/


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:13:34 -0800
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Team3S: Which cat-back

R.G. wrote:

                                                        SNIP


Just follow the last threads and

> you'll find that boost should be limited to 16psi to be save. With this the
> stock injectors should be enough. I've tested the car on the dyno up to
> continous 1.05bars/15.2psi around 5600 (close to knock) and the A/F ratio was
> still on the rich side. This allowed us to reduce the mixture with the help of
> the AFC what resulted in a gain of 7 to 10hp and still on the safe rich side.
>

Roger, I'm wandering in the fog with reference to AFC(?)  and how can I  tune/ lean mixture
through it.  In other words, if I am running rich, how can I lean that out a bit in my
slightly modified setup... or should  I just leave it alone? Barry, anyone else, feel free to
jump in and banish this damn fog.

Darc

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:26:36 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Which cat-back

The Apex'i AFC (airflow controller) intercepts the airflow signal (a
frequency signal generated by the MAS) and allows the user to increase or
decrease the signal before it is sent to the ECU.  Increasing the signal
makes the ECU believe more air is present.  Decreasing the signal makes the
ECU think less air is present.  The ECU responds to this by increasing or
decreeasing fuel thereby adjusting the mixture.

The AFC is kind of brain-dead IMO (even though I own one and it is still in
the car) because it is adjusted solely based on RPM.  We have discussed
before why this is very limiting.  Basically it is only good at WOT or fr
adjusting idle quality which for many may be enough.  It did serve me well
for many months but the MASC is incomparably superior.

Personally I think it is the poorer of the many hacks available (VPC, GCC,
MASC etc.) but it does work.  It is excellent quality and for 1994+ owners
was really the only device available prior to the MASC short of converting
to an entirely new ECM.


Regards,

Barry

> -----Original Message-----
> Roger, I'm wandering in the fog with reference to AFC(?)  and how
> can I  tune/ lean mixture
> through it.  In other words, if I am running rich, how can I lean
> that out a bit in my
> slightly modified setup... or should  I just leave it alone?
> Barry, anyone else, feel free to
> jump in and banish this damn fog.
>
> Darc

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:01:16 -0800
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Team3S: Which cat-back

Barry E. King wrote:

> The Apex'i AFC (airflow controller) intercepts the airflow signal (a
> frequency signal generated by the MAS) and allows the user to increase or
> decrease the signal before it is sent to the ECU.  Increasing the signal
> makes the ECU believe more air is present.  Decreasing the signal makes the
> ECU think less air is present.  The ECU responds to this by increasing or
> decreeasing fuel thereby adjusting the mixture.

                                    <snip>Thanks Barry...cleared that up. So what I need
now, to play with my mixture,  is something in addition to what I have...preferably the
MASC... but I have a sneaking feeling the price may hamstring me...assuming it is even
available anymore.  Or, are there discontinued units now at a discount price? Mike?
Barry?

Best

Darc

PS Am taking my computer apart to upgrade, so will shortly be off line for a short
while.. I hope. : )

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:30:27 -0800
From: "Errin D. Humphrey" <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Team3S: Zen Motorsports BOV

Barry E. King wrote:

>Short of that, the Zen Motorsports BOV appears to be a far superior
>design than any of the current popular BOVs.  The tolerances of the
>cylinder are extremely tight making leakage a non-issue at any boost
>levels liable to be seen in our cars.

I haven't been able to locate a webpage for Zen Motorsports.
Do they have one?  Could someone please send me the url?
If not, does anyone have a picture of the Zen BOV?

Thanks in advance,

- --Errin Humphrey

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 22:36:30 +0000
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Which cat-back /AFC (knock,dyno)

Barry's respond is tripple A rated and says it all :)

I must admit, that I got the AFC in the hope to get rid off the anoying fuel cut
and hesitations arpund 1.25 bars (read it well as the car runned hell ...
directly to hell). As the symptons arose I did not thought of any retarded
timing nor knock and I just thought that there is too less fuel delivered. Today
I call myself stupid. I learned this as I installed the AFC and increased the
fuel around max power (+5000). What then happend was immediate fuel cut below 1
bars and a big jump onto the emergency fuel map where the ECU ignores the MAS
and just allows the driver to go up to about 2500-3000rpm and not more. Of
course the injectors were maxed out and the ECU could not allocate any mixture
with the provided maps what finally caused the fuel cut. I then leaned the
mixture out at this level and voilą ... no fuel cut anymore :) Unfortunately the
hesitation was still there and it felt not that good as there was some power
loss after 1.2 bars (around 17.4 psi). I then decided to leave it switched off
until I'll tune it in on the dyno.

The first run we made with a reduced A/F ratio resulted in very impressive 465hp
around 5600@1.25bars or so. But then the mechanic told me that he heard a heavy
knock. Sitting myself in the car the knock was hearable and the power was there
at 5560rpm and 40rpms more a huge loss of about 90hp (retarded timing). But
knock was hearable somewhat sooner. Reducing boost while holding the car on full
load at 5600 removed the hearable knock at 1.2bars. I felt fine as there was
still about 435hp available, but tourque was noticeable decreased. The mechnic
still told me toi hear knoc kwhile I wasn't able (or ignored ??) any knock. We
then used the garden-hose method to determine the high-speed knock (higher knock
frequency) by putting the hose below the intake manifold close to the knock
sensor and putting the other end into an old closed headphone. With this knock
was noticeable until we went below 1.06 bars peak (the Blitz DSBC was great to
tune in then). We then measured the A/F ratio on different rpms and adjusted the
AFC to always on the safe side but not too rich as necessary. This resulted in a
gain of about 7-10 hp then. Nothing noticeable and nithing on the tourque side.
Also I was able to do this because I was told that the EU version have bigger
injectors as the US ones and therefore are running on the richer side. We will
see whenever I pull an injector.

Barry is right, AFC is fuel control for the poor man (me..) and it works. IMHO
But it is not worth the time and money if you don't have any other mods like
bigger injectors or so. Also trying to cure a sympton and not the cause is a
stupid idea ... although it often works.

- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
K&N FIPK,Magnecor wires,Blitz DSBC/gauge/Dual Timer,Apexi AFC,SBOV,
Borla,OZ Mito2,Yoko AVS-Z1,braided brake lines,Bremsa brakes,Pagid RS-R pads
Maybe: f.aluminum pistons (if rebuild needed)
Visit my homepage under: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:11:49 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Zen Motorsports BOV

http://www.zen-motorsports.com/index.htm


> I haven't been able to locate a webpage for Zen Motorsports.
> Do they have one?  Could someone please send me the url?
> If not, does anyone have a picture of the Zen BOV?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> --Errin Humphrey

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:31:22 -0500
From: "Bob Rand" <rtr@vnet.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Zen Motorsports BOV

Here ya go.

http://www.zen-motorsports.com/

- -----Original Message-----
From: Errin D. Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
To: 3/S Sirius ML <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Sunday, November 29, 1998 4:32 PM
Subject: Team3S: Zen Motorsports BOV


>Barry E. King wrote:
>
>>Short of that, the Zen Motorsports BOV appears to be a far superior
>>design than any of the current popular BOVs.  The tolerances of the
>>cylinder are extremely tight making leakage a non-issue at any boost
>>levels liable to be seen in our cars.
>
>I haven't been able to locate a webpage for Zen Motorsports.
>Do they have one?  Could someone please send me the url?
>If not, does anyone have a picture of the Zen BOV?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>--Errin Humphrey
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 00:58:56 -0800
From: "Errin D. Humphrey" <errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Zen Motorsports BOV

Errin Humphrey wrote:

>>I haven't been able to locate a webpage for Zen Motorsports.
>>Do they have one?  Could someone please send me the url?
>>If not, does anyone have a picture of the Zen BOV?

Bob Rand replied:

> Here ya go.
>
> http://www.zen-motorsports.com/

Well, I sure did a great job of making myself
look stupid.  That'll learn me.  :-P

- --Errin

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------------------------------

End of Team3S Digest V1 #36
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