--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #35
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest       Saturday, November 28 1998       Volume 01 : Number 035




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 01:12:54 -0800
From: Dave Allison <dave@languys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Datalogger ??

Here's an excerpt of the correspondence between myself and the guys that
make the Datalogger:

>To: 'Dave Allison' <dave@languys.com>
>Subject: RE: Datalogger
>
>>I'm interested in purchasing your Datalogger product for my 1993
>>Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4.
>
>I have not tried it on a 1993 3000, but I don't really see why it wouldn't
>work,
>if the connectors are the same.
>
>>Could you tell me what
>>data signals are monitored with my particular car? Is it the same data
>>features displayed on the DSM unit?
>
>You should be able to get all the features currently listed of the DSM.
Except
>that you can turn off 6 cylinders, instead of just four!  I actually developed
>the code on a 1990 3000 ECU I had laying around.
>
>Actually, I'm not sure if I've sold one to a 3S car yet.  There might be some
>small bugs not shaken out for them, but I will fix them as you find them.
>
>>You also mention on your site that there is some type of bug when dealing
>>with Mitsubishi ECU's regarding runnning in diagnostic mode and the ABS.
>>Does this problem occur with the 3000GT also?
>
>Probably.
>
>>Can the ABS service light be
>>reset by disconnecting the battery leads, thus resetting the ECU, or must I
>>follow the directions you mention on your site to reset the ABS indicator?
>
>You will have to put a switch on this pink wire that comes out of the ABS
unit.
>I suspect that the wiring colors are the same for the 3S, as they probably use
>the same ABS unit.  I have a diagram for what to do with a DSM.  I can send
>that
>to you and you can compare it to your service manual.
>
>>Virtual gauges
>
>Not done yet.
>
>>Can export to any spreadsheet program
>
>done.
>
>>Can take a snapshot in PNG format for easy publishing on the Web
>
>done.
>
>>Any special instructions or notes when installing on my particular model car?
>
>Isn't the diag connector actually in the same place?  Aside from the fuse
>numbering, I think you can use the instructions I posted for the 1G DSM.
>
>>P.S. Is it possible to swing some type of group discount if I rounded up
>>some members from the several 3000GT/Stealth lists on the Internet?
>
>My business partner and I are considering this.  We might do something like
>this
>during the month of December.
>
>-todd-




At 12:24 PM 11/26/98 , you wrote:
>Anybody aware of the TMO Datalogger (PC connected to the 1st-gen) ? I emailed
>them twice but never got any feedback. A friend named Lowell Foo told me
>that he
>tried it on a friends Stealth and it worked pretty well.
>
>Thanks,
>Roger
>
>-----------------------
>Roger Gerl, Switzerland
>93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
>K&N FIPK,Magnecor wires,Blitz DSBC/gauge/Dual Timer,Apexi AFC,SBOV,
>Borla,OZ Mito2,Yoko AVS-Z1,braided brake lines,Bremsa brakes,Pagid RS-R pads
>
>Visit my homepage under: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 01:27:07 -0800
From: Dave Allison <dave@languys.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Alterations for boost increase

Oops!

Intended to include this with my previous post.

http://www.tmo.com/prod/datalog/datalogger.htm

Dave Allison
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 08:56:27 -0500
From: "Bob Fontana" <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Alterations for boost increase

Dave, Barry, Roger, etc.

I will be getting a TMO Datalogger in the next couple of weeks.  I got a
special deal on it since I provided Todd Day with my MAF a couple years ago.

Todd is a hard guy to get a hold of since he's thinking, eating, sleeping
DSMs non-stop, 24-hours a day.  He runs an extensive DSM site, continually
tinkers with ECU-related projects and works an unrelated 8- or more hour job
each day.  Quite a guy, actually.

Be persistent.  I had to e-mail him 3 or 4 times to get his attention.

- -Bob

> Intended to include this with my previous post.
>
> http://www.tmo.com/prod/datalog/datalogger.htm
>

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 06:49:33 -0800
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Team3S: Alterations for boost increase

Andrew J Clark wrote:



> Anybody else who has run an increased boost level for a long period
> without problems could you please also comment.

Andrew....I  just installed  an new Apexi SAVC-R and did much of the same group
questioning as you are exploring now. My conservative conclusions were to set my  BC at
1 bar @68% and 1.05 bar @70%. Others have  higher settings... but it seemed that 1.10
bar and above was where the detonation was initially  being detected. Since it doesn't
take much of this, even if it occurs only once in the while, to ruin an engine, I have
opted to run safe. Hope this helps.

Darcy

Victoria BC.

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 09:56:53 +1100
From: Andrew J Clark <chemist1@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Alterations for boost increase/safe boost levels

Barry E. King wrote:
>
> Too much boost means more than 16 psi on 92+ pump for any significant length
> of time.
Unfortunately, down here we're not givin the octane rating of the fuel
you can only buy regualar unleaded petrol & what they call "premium"
unleaded petrol. I've always used premium. I should (& will) contact
Shell or one of the other major manufacturers & ask what rating the
premium actually is. Anyway I am only looking at increasing the boost to
around 13psi so from what I can gather I would have to really mistreat
the car to do any damage at that boost level.
Andrew
Australia
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 10:11:30 +1100
From: Andrew J Clark <chemist1@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Alterations for boost increase

> Andrew....I  just installed  an new Apexi SAVC-R and did much of the same group
> questioning as you are exploring now. My conservative conclusions were to set my  BC at
> 1 bar @68% and 1.05 bar @70%. Others have  higher settings... but it seemed that 1.10
> bar and above was where the detonation was initially  being detected. Since it doesn't
> take much of this, even if it occurs only once in the while, to ruin an engine, I have
> opted to run safe. Hope this helps.
>
> Darcy
>
> Victoria BC.

Darcy,
Could you please explain 1 bar @0.68% , this has to do with airflow at 1
bar, yes? How important is this when increasing the boost to lower
levels, say 12-14psi ie do you have to alter airflow at these lower
levels? I plan to have the boost increased to about 13psi without doing
much else to the car apart from a K&N , any thoughts? I dont want ( or
would probably do some real damage with ) a 400plus HP car. I'm looking
at around mid 300's, just a bit more poke.
Any other comments most appreciated.
Thanks
Andrew
Australia
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:36:34 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Alterations for boost increase/safe boost levels

Andrew,

Bes sure to ask which method they are using to calculate the octane rating
and in which rating mechanism they are quoting the numbers.

Here in the US octane is rated as (R + M) / 2 which is the average of
reasearch and motor octane.  Europe and other countries do it a little
differently.  It is important if possible to get both the R and the M
numbers since the motor octane component is the one most likely to suppress
knock.  All 93 octanes using R+M are not created equally.


Regards,

Barry

> -----Original Message-----
> Barry E. King wrote:
> >
> > Too much boost means more than 16 psi on 92+ pump for any
> significant length
> > of time.
> Unfortunately, down here we're not givin the octane rating of the fuel
> you can only buy regualar unleaded petrol & what they call "premium"
> unleaded petrol. I've always used premium. I should (& will) contact
> Shell or one of the other major manufacturers & ask what rating the
> premium actually is. Anyway I am only looking at increasing the boost to
> around 13psi so from what I can gather I would have to really mistreat
> the car to do any damage at that boost level.
> Andrew
> Australia

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:42:42 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Alterations for boost increase

I'd like to comment on this BADC quoting thing.

Podium please.

The "@70%" is the boost actuator duty setting for the SAVC-R.  It is a
COMPLETELY irrelevant number to anyone without an Apex'i SAVC'R.  I find it
superfluous information that only tends to confuse people and bring up
rehashed discussions on what BADC really means.

Okay, off the podium.

Carry on.


Barry

> -----Original Message-----
> > Andrew....I  just installed  an new Apexi SAVC-R and did much
> of the same group
> > questioning as you are exploring now. My conservative
> conclusions were to set my  BC at
> > 1 bar @68% and 1.05 bar @70%. Others have  higher settings...
> but it seemed that 1.10
> > bar and above was where the detonation was initially  being
> detected. Since it doesn't
> > take much of this, even if it occurs only once in the while, to
> ruin an engine, I have
> > opted to run safe. Hope this helps.
> >
> > Darcy
> >
> > Victoria BC.
>
> Darcy,
> Could you please explain 1 bar @0.68% , this has to do with airflow at 1
> bar, yes? How important is this when increasing the boost to lower
> levels, say 12-14psi ie do you have to alter airflow at these lower
> levels? I plan to have the boost increased to about 13psi without doing
> much else to the car apart from a K&N , any thoughts? I dont want ( or
> would probably do some real damage with ) a 400plus HP car. I'm looking
> at around mid 300's, just a bit more poke.
> Any other comments most appreciated.
> Thanks
> Andrew

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 17:27:07 -0800
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Team3S: Alterations for boost increase

Barry E. King wrote:

> I'd like to comment on this BADC quoting thing.
>
> Podium please.
>
> The "@70%" is the boost actuator duty setting for the SAVC-R.  It is a
> COMPLETELY irrelevant number to anyone without an Apex'i SAVC'R.  I find it
> superfluous information that only tends to confuse people and bring up
> rehashed discussions on what BADC really means.
>
> Okay, off the podium.
>
> Carry on.

Whew...glad we cleared that up..but Barry is right...it's irrelevant information for
anyone running another brand of BC.  So my 2c worth is reduced to noting that I am
running at 14.223 psi which is slightly under 1 bar on my first setting (which for my
purposes I quoted as 1 bar) The second setting of 1.05 bar (again actually under this)
is for all purposes, conservative again. Like yourself Andrew, I am running only a K&N
air injection system as my only other mod. I solicited all the advise I could get from
users of Apexi and decided to set my unit as noted to insure engine reliablitiy (read
last-ability). Both Jim in Germany and Barry in Scottsdale contributed to this decision,
and I tended to lean a bit towards Barry's conservative end of the spectrum advise,
until all the dust settles from the meltdowns.

Hope that helps a bit...I'm certain both Jim and Barry can advise on Apexi better than
I  (I have had it only a short while) and certainly users of Blitz (like Roger) and the
other brands can advise if you note what you have. In conclusion...buy a couple bottles
of octane boost and have them in the trunk for those times when you think you may want
to put your foot into it.

Best

Darc

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 01:24:12 -0500
From: Nathan Crisman <jonescri@accessgate.net>
Subject: Team3S: TRE MASC

Hello all.

    I just bought a TT stealth (stock now 92 blue 52K), but I previosly
had an Eagle Talon AWD turbo. I own a TRE MASC 70mm conversion for that
car, and have had nothing but great things to say about it...I agree
with Barry, the masc doesn't cause anything to happen that the tuner
doesn't tell it to do.  It's by far the smartest design of fuel
controler Iv ever seen.  The range of adjustablility and the built in
guages and peak hold make it heads above the VPC/GCC combo (and was
cheaper).

    Also...after this talk of advanced tuning on the 3k's and blown up
motors, Iv got a strange problem:   My spedometer reads from 10-15 mph
slower than actual speed.  This was verified by "tailing" other cars at
a set speed, and by "time per distance" on the highway markers.  If
anyone can give me a list of possible causes, Id love to hear it.

Nathan Crisman
91 Talon AWD turbo
92 Stealth RT TT

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 01:45:27 -0500
From: Nathan Crisman <jonescri@accessgate.net>
Subject: Team3S: Which cat-back

I almoast forgot,  What is the general thought on the Borla Exhaust for
the TT's?  I have access to them at wholesale, (keystone automotive) Im
only planning on doing the complete exhaust, airfilter, boost, and?
what else is necessary at this point? fuel pump? How far can you go on
stock injectors?

sorry for the "basic" questions, but I haven't found a good site with
solid modifying information "staged upgrades" on the 3k's.

Nathan Crisman

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 23:58:48 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Which cat-back

I think the Borla is the best bang for the buck short of a custom exhaust.
It sounds good, looks good (IMO) and is cheap even at retail.  I bought mine
from Jeg's for $469 USD + truck freight.  I am sure you could have one made
that would work just as well for around that but likely not in stainless.

Filter, exhaust and boost control of some sort should get you up there.  The
stock injectors are 360cc/min which limits safe HP to around 400 (maybe
less) without maxing them out.  Bumping up the fuel pressure and making sure
the fuel filter is performing at optimun will help.  You could also wire the
pump directly to the battery to get a little more out of it withou shelling
out for a big pump.

Despite dyno results discovered by another list member, I did show
improvement in power with filter and exhaust according to my G-tech.
Bumping up the boost helps a lot once those mods are in place.

Check out www.3000gt.com for some more modification ideas.  The site is not
finished yet but may get your creative juices flowing.


Regards,

Barry

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> [mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Nathan Crisman
> Sent: Friday, November 27, 1998 11:45 PM
> To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: Team3S: Which cat-back
>
>
> I almoast forgot,  What is the general thought on the Borla Exhaust for
> the TT's?  I have access to them at wholesale, (keystone automotive) Im
> only planning on doing the complete exhaust, airfilter, boost, and?
> what else is necessary at this point? fuel pump? How far can you go on
> stock injectors?
>
> sorry for the "basic" questions, but I haven't found a good site with
> solid modifying information "staged upgrades" on the 3k's.
>
> Nathan Crisman
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 19:23:23 +1100
From: Andrew Clark <chemist1@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Alterations for boost increase

Thanks guys , imparticular Barry , Roger & Darc for the advice.
Car is booked in for Thursday this coming week to get the boost increaed
......I can't wait!
Andrew
Australia
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 10:02:36 -0500
From: "Bob Rand" <rtr@vnet.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: TRE MASC

Dodge was aware of this problem,  Apperantly the speedometer gear ratio was
incorrect. Solution in the service manual is replace the speedo gear.

Bob
93 Stealth TT
- -----Original Message-----
From: Nathan Crisman <jonescri@accessgate.net>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Saturday, November 28, 1998 1:24 AM
Subject: Team3S: TRE MASC


>Hello all.
>
>    I just bought a TT stealth (stock now 92 blue 52K), but I previosly
>had an Eagle Talon AWD turbo. I own a TRE MASC 70mm conversion for that
>car, and have had nothing but great things to say about it...I agree
>with Barry, the masc doesn't cause anything to happen that the tuner
>doesn't tell it to do.  It's by far the smartest design of fuel
>controler Iv ever seen.  The range of adjustablility and the built in
>guages and peak hold make it heads above the VPC/GCC combo (and was
>cheaper).
>
>    Also...after this talk of advanced tuning on the 3k's and blown up
>motors, Iv got a strange problem:   My spedometer reads from 10-15 mph
>slower than actual speed.  This was verified by "tailing" other cars at
>a set speed, and by "time per distance" on the highway markers.  If
>anyone can give me a list of possible causes, Id love to hear it.
>
>Nathan Crisman
>91 Talon AWD turbo
>92 Stealth RT TT
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

End of Team3S Digest V1 #35
***************************

For unsubscribe info and FAQ, see our web page at http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm