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(Team3S Digest)
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Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #20
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Team3S Digest
Monday, November 9 1998 Volume
01 : Number
020
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 08 Nov 1998 11:43:19 -0500
From: "Theiss, Charles" <charles.theiss@lmco.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: G-tech and clutch
My current best with the G-Tech is 4.1
0-60.
> ----------
> From: Mikael Åkesson[SMTP:vr4@bahnhof.se]
> Reply To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
Sent: Friday, November 06, 1998 2:50 PM
> To: 'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'
>
Subject: Team3S: G-tech and clutch
>
> Hi all,
>
>
Inspired by Curt and Oscar I went out and tested some 0-100km/h with my
>
G-tech meter ( that is slightly more that 0-60 (62,5mph))
>
> My
best before was 4.63 with the Blitz set to 1.25 bar
>
> Today I
made several runs under 4.5 and the best was 4.41with only 1.03
>
bar.
>
> With the old clutch I started at 5000rpm and dumped the
clutch and that
> resulted in almost no wheel spin at all. First I started
with dumping the
> new clutch at 4500rpm's and the rear end broke out
sidways (alot) and all
> wheels spun thru whole 1:st gear. Hmm no good but
the time indicated 4.8
> and that is good. I had a hard time to figure out
the best technique to
> start but ended up doing 4.41 by slipping the
clutch (it doesn't slip that
> much :) at slightly under
4000rpm's.
> I feel that I can do even better times when I have practiced
more with
> this clutch.
>
> For all dragracers: test this
kind of clutch disc, I think you will like
> it.
>
> Have
anyone with bigger turbos and VPC and stuff tested a Gtech?? If so
> what
0-60 times did you get? And what 1/4 mile times?
>
> /Mikael (for
more info http://www.bahnhof.se/~vr4)
> For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 8 Nov 1998 11:50:13 EST
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Saleen Vortech
Mustang Vs. Modified VR-4 comparison
I've just read the November 98 issue
of Turbo Magazine, wherein they are
touting Steve Saleen's "The Saleen
Mustang." Although a nice toy, with its
beefed up V8 Vortch producing (Dyno
numbers) 495HP & 490 lbs/ft of torque. It
quotes "Saleen boasts a 0-60
time of 4.6 seconds & a 1/4 mile time of 12.70 at
122 mph." Turbo Mag did
not even get those numbers running only 0-60 at 5.46
and the 1/4 in 13.44 at
116 mph. Why a car like this gets a lot of raves and
our cars get very little
coverage is beyond me. A stock VR-4 with an air
filter can beat this thing.
My 91 VR-4 with 115,000 miles on her is a full 2
seconds faster. I wish these
magazines would open their eyes.
Saleen with the
Vortech My modified 91
VR-4
0-60 4.6 to
5.4
about 3 seconds
1/4 mile 12.7 to
13.44 11.41
get
out &
walk
by by.
Arty 91 VR-4
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------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 8 Nov 1998 12:52:11 -0500
From: "Ron-a-roid" <rtetetet@email.msn.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Air to water intercooler
>> A friend of mine used to
pack his inter cooler with dry ice for drag
racing.
>> Another
interesting idea is the same thing the air racers use called
a
spray
>> bar that sprays a mist over the coolers to add
efficiency. Looking for an
>> added boost for a few
pennies?
>
>I don't think dry ice works very well in the October
1998 issue of Turbo
there was an
>article about this. Check page
122 and I quote:
> "Despite its -70 degree temperature,
dry ice is a cooling myth. Dry
ice emits CO2
>and when water
comes in contact with the ice it actually comes in contact
with the
CO2
>which offers surprising little cooling power."
Curious,
I'm not sure they were using dry ice the same way. My friend used
NO water,
just two slabs against either side of the aluminum intercooler in
direct
contact. Dry ice is near useless for cooling water because, as the
article
states, the water is -not- incontact with the solid of the dry ice
but the
gasing C02 which transfers very little to the water as it bubbles
off into
the atmosphere. Much of the -70 temp is lost in the gasing off and
transfer
is minumal at best. Direct contact to the aluminum however, frosted
the
intercooler and associated plumbing before starting the engine and kept
it
very cold durning runs. He said it was worth .3 - .6 seconds on a hot day
and
a noticable torque increase.
> "Converting an
air-to-air core to an air-to-liquid intercooler is not
advised
>because
the fin separation difference of the air-to-air core compromises
its
performance
>in a liquid application."
The spray bar
method I mentioned is a convection method of cooling used for
oil coolers and
intercoolers. A fine mist is sprayed over the coolers and as
it evaporates it
reduces the temperature beyond what air only cooling will
provide. The water
required is minimal because a small mist is all that is
required rather that
total coverage or saturation. Evaporation is the key to
this not the
transference of heat to the water. A small electric pump
capable of
reasonable pressure, some tubing, spray nozzles and a solenoid
switch to
trigger the pump or open a valve. I've seen significant drops in
temperature
in oil cooling and I would suspect that the same is applicable
for the
intercoolers. Sort of like cool damp night performance
increases.
Ron
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page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 08 Nov 1998 21:20:31 +0100
From: Mike Chapleski <mike.chapleski@ibm.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: BLITZ English manual
>
Roger, What a great post, I
wish I had this when I was trying to figure out how to work
the
Blitz.
>
>
> At first, set the limiter by turning the
Mode knob until the display turns red
> and WARN blinks. Adjust the boost
level for the limiter by turning the Volume
> knob. Dial it in to 1.05
bars for a start. Then push Volume to switch to the
> Ratio reducement.
Turn Volume to get -5 (i.e. reduces Ratio by 5 when hitting
> 1.05 bars).
Limiter is set now.
Max,
If you have stock turbos,
I would set this number to -2. With the smaller turbos
you will get too
much fluctuation in the lower RPM range. My current settings
are:
Gain 33
Warn 1.05
Ratio Reducement -2
Ration
45
This gives me a peak of 16 psi with a constant of 14-15 psi up to 5500
RPM, then it
slowly drops to 12.5 psi. If you have a 1st gen, your
numbers will probably be a lot
different. A second gen. will probably
be similar.
Mike C.
0018
'95 Stealth RT TT
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------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:52:03 -0500
From: "Fein, Edward" <fein@strategy.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Cats, Trannys, and Magnets
Did some work on the car today... noticed a
few interesting things:
1) Bob Fontana mentioned that the purpose of the
pre-cats may be to protect
the main cat from unburned gasoline. Well, 1300
miles after gutting the
pre-cats, with a stock main cat, I'm getting a faint,
odd smell from my car.
Might be rotten eggs - in which case I'll be upgrading
to that ATR downpipe
earlier than expected... (we'll see if the smell gets
worse, or at least
strong enough to really smell).
2) Someone
(Barry King?) suggested running a magnet through your old tranny
fluid to
look for metal shavings in it. Well, it turns out that on my '94,
the
transmission drain plug has a magnetic post in the center of it.
Evidently
the purpose of this post is to collect the metal shavings from
inside the
transmission. But you can look for bits of metal on that post in
the
plug.
Speaking of which, I had a lot of small metal particles attached to
that
post - which is why I noticed it is magnetic. It's probably just
normal
wear, but just in case it's related to my car not wanting to go into
first
gear - how do I get a six-speed 1-2 synchro assembly nowadays? Or is
there
anyone out there who's replaced their 2nd gear synchro from a 1-2 kit,
and
still has the 1st gear one lying around? (six-speed only) I may be
needing
one next year.
3) On netiquette (since people on this list
seem very concerned over such
things) - if, as in this email, I have two (now
three) completely unrelated
and relatively minor points to discuss, is is
better to send one email
(thereby possibly starting two divergent threads
with the same subject
line), or to break the message into separate messages
(thereby putting an
extra mail into everyone's Inbox)?
-Ed
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:59:29 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Trannys (Synchro Replacement), and Netiquette...
- -----Original
Message-----From: Fein, Edward <fein@strategy.com>
|Did some work on
the car today... noticed a few interesting things:
-
-------snip--------
|2) Someone (Barry King?) suggested running a magnet
through your old tranny
|fluid to look for metal shavings in it. Well, it
turns out that on my '94,
|the transmission drain plug has a magnetic post in
the center of it.
- --------snip-------
|gear - how do I get a six-speed
1-2 synchro assembly nowadays? Or is there
|anyone out there who's replaced
their 2nd gear synchro from a 1-2 kit, and
|still has the 1st gear one lying
around? (six-speed only) I may be needing
|one next year.
JackT is
the man to get in touch with on that...
|3) On netiquette (since people
on this list seem very concerned over such
|things) - if, as in this email, I
have two (now three) completely unrelated
|and relatively minor points to
discuss, is is better to send one email
|(thereby possibly starting two
divergent threads with the same subject
|line), or to break the message into
separate messages (thereby putting an
|extra mail into everyone's
Inbox)?
Seems to me that whoever replies to a 3-way post would
re-start the thread
with the piece they want to respond to... Logical,
and keeps it all clear
for the next guy. Then again, separate posts
might be better for the
"internet impaired"... How's that for a
non-answer? :-)
Forrest
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 09 Nov 1998 02:14:59 -0800
From: John Christian <ie886@po.cwru.edu>
Subject: Team3S: No
Boost
Hi,
Yes, no boost. Both the Autometer and the in-dash
boost gauges show
only vacuum 20 to 0.
No Pressure even at
WOT.
At Road Atlanta, this weekend there was a black 911 catching me in
the
corners. I wanted to put some distance between us so I down shifted
into
2nd for turn 7 and hammered it. Shifted into 3rd and ran to 6000+
with
boost only dropping to 11 psi near red line. Shifted into 4th
and
looked behind and saw the Porsche farther back.[Not as far back as
he
should have been]
BUT I had blown smoke at him too.
After that there was no more BOOST.
I hung a left under the bridge and
pitted immediately. No fluid leaks.
No hoses missing, cracked, loose,
etc. There is some oil in the Y-pipe
- --- less in the tube farthest
from the engine; & more in the tube
closest. All vacuum hose seem
to be in place. TT still runs, but NO
ZIP.
I drove the TT over
to Charlotte that evening, checking the oil level
frequently. But no
noticible drop in oil level. In fact I checked it
after getting home to
Pittsburgh and its perhaps down 1/16 to 1/8 inch
on the
dipstick.
Really missed the boost on the drive home. Never realized
how much
power one uses just to maintain highway speeds. This is the first
time I
had to downshift to keep up with traffic. On some of the hills,
I had
to downshift to 3rd to stay at 70MPH.
The track has a quiet time
so I replaced the custom downpipe/exhaust
system with the stock
components. The only other mods are a K&N filter
and a manual boost
controller (the pressure regulator type).
Since we have twin
torbos, Isn't it strange I lost boost from BOTH??
As far as I know
the whole turbo/wastegate/blowoff system works on
vacuum.
Is there an
electrical system component I can check??? I had to jump
start the TT
at the track before the event started. Then the battery
died completely on
Saturday morning. I was getting the feeling that my
troubles would
never end.
How can I check the turbo(s)??
Any suggestions???
Thanks in advance for your help.
- --
JCZoooM 93 TT
12.46@109Mph '94Brakes 4 warranty Getrags
If Getrag replaced
call Chrysler 800 992-1997 & register complaint
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538
VR4's Mitsu at 800
222-0037
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is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 09 Nov 1998 09:54:18 +0100
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: No Boost
John,
Sorry to hear that you had black days
:(
Your problem sounds of having a problem in the vacuum lines that
control the
wastegates or the wastegates themselfes. But it is somewhat
strange because the
wg actuators are driven by pressure and this means there
must be more than 0 psi
to operate them. IMHO opinion, check the lines and
the wastegate actuators if
they are functioning properly. If the wastegates
are always open then you'll not
having any boost but the car is still
running.
Another problem could be the stock BOV. It could be that it is
stuck open and
relieves any pressure back to the intake. On mine the tube to
the BOV pooped off
once but the car then died due to the big leak on the
intake. Sorry, I can't
tell you how to inspect the stock BOV for proper
working :(
My input is somewhat small but I hope others g
>
There is some oil in the Y-pipe
On mine I had some MORE oil in the y-pipe
(I have pics if you need them). We
checked the turbos last week and found no
problem with them :) But I had one
piston with a broken ring land and two
others who broke on the lower area :(
This caused an increase in pressure in
the crankcase and forced the oil to the
intake through the crankcase
ventilation. To go the save way, check the
compression on the front back as
you can reach them easily. If you see any lower
number the rear one would be
worser.
> But no noticible drop in oil level. In fact I checked
it
> after getting home to Pittsburgh and its perhaps down 1/16 to 1/8
inch
> on the dipstick.
Mine showed also somewhat like normal oil
consumption. But how does it look when
idleing ? Any blue/black smoke then ?
How's the quality of idleing ?
> Since we have twin torbos,
Isn't it strange I lost boost from BOTH??
I doubt you lost power from the
turbos and I think your problem is elsewhere. I
lost 100 Nm tourque and about
50hp due to the bad engine but boost was still up
to 1.05bars.
> As
far as I know the whole turbo/wastegate/blowoff system works on
> vacuum.
Is there an electrical system component I can check???
The only
electrical component is the stock wastegate actuator valve. But if it
is
stuck and always closed your car would still make somewhat about 0.3bars
or
5psi of boost. It it would be stuck open then boost would be the max it
can
flow.
> Then the battery died completely on Saturday
morning.
Then this sounds like you're having a problem with your belt.
Has your battery
died or was it drained ? Have you checked if it is geeting
charged ?
Again, I doubt that your turbos are gone. When my ECU jumped
into the emergency
program I had Zero, Null boost and I was not able getting
over 3500 or so. I had
no check engine light and was able to drive home.
After a few minutes the system
then healed itselfs and I got all my beloved
boost back. As your battery was low
then I guess this resetted your ECU and
therefore it maybe takes some time until
it runs fine again. IMHO, check the
charging of the battery first by measuring
the voltage at the battery (13-14V
when running). Then check if the wastegates
work properly. You can do this by
taking the bleed out and attaching a pump to
the feeding lines. You can
easily see how the front one works. Then check the
compression of the front
bank and if you see low number it's time to check the
rear ones too. At this
time you can also check your plugs.
Hope this helps a little
Good
luck, Roger
- -----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
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subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 9 Nov 1998 08:34:53 -0800
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: ATR Pre-Cat update
Ed...
Thanks for the excellent
description of the difficulties in designing the rear pre-cat. It explains why I
got
a "no go" from ATR. One of their engineers called back late Friday and
politely shared that, while there
could be some marginal flow & hp gain
from replacing them, the complexity of the project would necessitate
FAR
more energy and $$$ than ATR is willing to invest.
I think we're back to
Robby for feedback from Europe (or back to the drill and chisel).
Looking
forward...Chris
"Friends don't let friends ride with me"
1995
Glacier Pearl White VR4
- -----Original Message-----
From: Fein,
Edward [SMTP:fein@strategy.com]
Sent:
Friday, November 06, 1998 7:57 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S: Pre-Cat Info
Speaking as someone who has actually had BOTH
pre-cats off his car within the past month, I can tell you the
following:
<MAJOR snip>
Take it from someone who's been
there... gut the rear cat on the car, and don't bother trying to replace
it.
-Ed
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
End
of Team3S Digest V1 #20
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