--
From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #19
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
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Precedence:
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Team3S Digest
Sunday, November 8 1998 Volume
01 : Number
019
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:56:50 -0500
From: "Fein, Edward" <fein@strategy.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Air to water intercooler
>Relocate the battery mount the IC in
its place and shorten all the
>intercooler plumbing by several
meters.
For anyone interested in this... I'm in the process of relocating
my
batterry (very long project - given my current work schedule I'm looking
at
a few more months).
There is a HUGE amount of space if you pull the
batterry, mounting plate,
and front windshield washer resevoir. Plenty of
room to work with. And no,
I'm not sure what I'll use it for on
mine.
-Ed
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 6 Nov 1998 23:18:03 -0500
From: "Fein, Edward" <fein@strategy.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: ATR pre-cats (TT only)
- ----- Chris wrote: -------------
I
pointed out there also are some VR4 owners who have gutted the pre-cats
and
found
a difference (placebo effect?). She said she would have one of the
engineers
go over their records and review
the data. She said, even if it
didn't appear to be a performance
improvement, but we had a demand for 15 or
more sets, they would probably quote on it.
-
---------------------------------
With gutted precats, the turbos
spool up quicker - quite noticably so. Upon
gutting the precats, you'll have
to readjust all the settings on your boost
controller, to allow it to adapt
to the new boost spool-up curve.
Underhood temps also drop noticably.
That will lead to cooler intake temps
for a couple more horses at least. And
the turbos also seem to be able to
produce / hold a little more pressure with
that restriction removed.
Not that I'm admitting to any mods on my car of
questionable legality... ;-)
But I'd say they'd have no problems
finding 15 buyers near-instantly.
-Ed
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 6 Nov 1998 23:03:07 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
ATR pre-cats (TT only)
Good news Chris. They didn't say "no".
:)
I personally am not concerned about heat shield mounts (as was pointed
out
in a previous post) since wrap could just as effectively be used in
that
location. Just so long as the piece mates with the turbo properly
and
adequate are is given for w/g exhaust and O2 sensor fitment, all should
be
good.
Regards,
Barry
<snip>
> She
said, even if it didn't appear to be a performance
> improvement, but we
had a demand for 15 or
> more sets, they would probably quote on
it.
>
> Next news when she calls back.
>
> Looking
forward...Chris
<snip>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 07 Nov 1998 08:54:28 +0100
From: Jim Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: G-tech and clutch
Barry E. King wrote:
>
> I
managed a 3.7 (measured via G-tech) once without launching it too hard.
I
> actually think it might do even better with practice. I have not
since
> reproduced that time due to the fact that the clutch was failing
badly. I
> won't quote exact quarter mile times as measured by the
G-tech but I know
> the car will do high 11s based on G-Tech numbers I
have observed. I will
> wait for an official dragstrip run before I
post any 1320' times.
Barry,
Excellent 0-60 times! I can only
imagine what shaving
a second off of my best time might feel like. But
why not post
your G-Tech quarter mile figures? I would be most
interested
to see them. Many folks (like myself) will not visit
a
dragstrip and have only G-Tech readings on which to
base
comparisons. If you are worried that folks will confuse
the
G-Tech times and speeds with actual drag stip times and speeds
(the
times should be very similar and the G-Tech speeds will
be faster since it is
an absolute speed at the end of the run
compared with an average speed over
the last stretch of the
track where you are still accelerating), you can
avoid this
by making sure that you indicate how you obtained the
figures.
Thanx.
-Jim
- --
Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de
(64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 70/84% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Bosch Winged
Wipers
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, TS
(so far): 166mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9
mph
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 07 Nov 1998 12:46:24 +0100
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Pre-Cat Info
Thanks a lot to Ed who sent a very good description
on the pre-cats :)
If anyone have gutted cats, are you still able to pass
the emission tests ? My
theory is saying yes but I'm not 100% sure. We have
to do the test every two
years in Switzerland and it must be within the
tolerances given at the first
time the car was measured :(
> - The
rear O2 housing / pre-cat is an _extremely_ complicated piece of pipe.
>
The O2 housing mates directly to the turbo, with a 'B' or '8' - shaped
>
gasket.
Huh ? Mine had the very same gasket as the front one. Also I
thought to remember
that there are two pieces on my european model. Maybe
another difference between
EU and US. What year is your car ? To be sure I'll
recheck the parts on Monday
as the car is still at Mitsu.
> -
There's no space back there. Sorry Arty, but you'll never fit a 3" pipe
in
> that space without moving the firewall, power steering hardlines,
left front
> drive shaft, or some combination of the three. It is that
tight.
Very true but a 2" should work :)
> Take it from someone
who's been there... gut the rear cat on the car, and
> don't bother trying
to replace it.
We had to remove the transaxle and the oil pan to get onto
the parts (engine was
always in the car during the rebuild) Removing the
precat was easily then.
Cheers,
Roger
-
-----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo
(Animale Rosso)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 7 Nov 1998 09:37:09 -0500
From: Bob Fontana <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Pre-Cat Info
Hi,
Don't lose any of that pre-cat
material - save it! Hehehe.
The whole purpose of the pre-cats as I
understand it is for
the material to get red-hot and burn off the excess
fuel
that exists when the mixture is rich during warmup. Excess
fuel in the exhaust will damage your main cat, eventually
causing the
rotten egg smell. So, no pre-cats requires an
off-road test
pipe.
My car passes emissions without the pre-cats. I install
the main cat and switch the VPC to the stock injector
program and make
it idle super lean before I start up the
car. Then I run it super hard
on the way there. The lean
VPC setting to raises the CO level a bit
but brings the HC
to well within specs, all without damaging the main
cat.
- -Bob (off-road use only) Fontana
- ----------
From:
R.G.[SMTP:robby@swissonline.ch]
Sent:
Saturday, November 07, 1998 6:46 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Pre-Cat Info
Thanks a lot to Ed who sent a very good
description on the
pre-cats :)
If anyone have gutted
cats, are you still able to pass the
emission tests ? My
theory is saying
yes but I'm not 100% sure. We have to do
the test every two
years in
Switzerland and it must be within the tolerances
given at the first
time
the car was measured :(
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 07 Nov 1998 12:08:24 -0500
From: Brian <bcdmad@concentric.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: G-tech and clutch
I just put in a new clutch this week
also. It's a RPS plate with a Broward
disk. I don't know if I can
slip this clutch or not. It could prove to be
difficult. Bob
F. can you slip this clutch at all?
At 03:12 PM 11/6/98 -0700, you
wrote:
>I managed a 3.7 (measured via G-tech) once without launching it
too hard. I
>actually think it might do even better with
practice. I have not since
>reproduced that time due to the fact
that the clutch was failing badly. I
>won't quote exact quarter mile
times as measured by the G-tech but I know
>the car will do high 11s based
on G-Tech numbers I have observed. I will
>wait for an official
dragstrip run before I post any 1320' times.
>
>I too have a new
clutch to test once I get the car back on the road. I hope
>it works
as well as yours seems to.
>
>The fact that your clutch is slippable
is a good thing. That can not only
>improve launches but reduce
strain on the driveline otherwise fealt with
>dumping techniques.
Many clutches won't tolerate slipping however. If
>yours holds up
then maybe there is a market for it over
here.
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Barry
>
>
>Original
message from Mikael Åkesson:
>
><snip>
>
>>
With the old clutch I started at 5000rpm and dumped the clutch
>> and
that resulted in almost no wheel spin at all. First I started
>> with
dumping the new clutch at 4500rpm's and the rear end broke
>> out
sidways (alot) and all wheels spun thru whole 1:st gear. Hmm
>> no good
but the time indicated 4.8 and that is good. I had a hard
>> time to
figure out the best technique to start but ended up doing
>> 4.41 by
slipping the clutch (it doesn't slip that much :) at
>> slightly under
4000rpm's.
>> I feel that I can do even better times when I have
practiced more
>> with this clutch.
>>
>> For all
dragracers: test this kind of clutch disc, I think you
>> will like
it.
>>
>> Have anyone with bigger turbos and VPC and stuff
tested a Gtech??
>> If so what 0-60 times did you get? And what 1/4
mile times?
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
>
93
VR-4
# 0007
Tampa/Orlando FL
"He who laughs last ... thinks
slowest"
______________________________________
Email Brian_Danley@parsons.com
bcdmad@concentric.net
Homepage http://www.concentric.net/~bcdmad
______________________________________
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 7 Nov 1998 12:07:19 EST
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Salvage 93 VR-4
wanted
Has anyone seen a stripped rolling 93 VR-4 chassis (no Eng.,
tranny or
interior - but with wheels) in a salvage yard someplace? And do you
recall
what they were asking for it?
Arty 91 VR-4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 7 Nov 1998 11:53:26 EST
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Pre-Cat
Info
Ed, unless they new Precat pipes can be made with at least a 3" size
I'd see
no reason to purchase. Mine have been cleanly gutted. I guess there
is no
alternative route to fit a 3". What about when Trust sells those 20 G
headers
with the new turbo mounts...What the heck do they do with the
routing. The
plumbing must be substantially larger?
Arty 91 VR-4
In
a message dated 11/7/98 3:57:35 AM !!!First Boot!!!, fein@strategy.com
writes:
<<
replicate.
- There's no space back there. Sorry Arty, but you'll never
fit a 3" pipe in
that space without moving the firewall, power steering
hardlines, left front
drive shaft, or some combination of the three. It
is that tight.
- As a consequence of the lack of space, test fitting a
pipe is
near-impossible. >>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 7 Nov 1998 11:08:42 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Pre-Cat Info
Arty,
Just curious, why do you want 3" pre-cat
replacements (or downpipe runners
for that matter)?
Personally I think
3" is excessive. I haven't done all of the math to
support what I think
the right downpipe and exhaust diameter is for the
length we are dealing
with, but "bigger is better" without tons of caveats
is a myth, plain and
simple.
Regards,
Barry
> Ed, unless they new Precat
pipes can be made with at least a 3"
> size I'd see no reason to purchase.
Mine have been cleanly gutted. I guess
there is no
> alternative route
to fit a 3". What about when Trust sells those
> 20 G headers with the new
turbo mounts...What the heck do they do
> with the routing. The plumbing
must be substantially larger?
> Arty 91 VR-4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 7 Nov 1998 13:19:57 EST
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Pre-Cat
Info
I'm just getting ready for larger turbos. I don't want to end up
doing
something twice.
Actually, the gutted precats are working great on
my 15G setup. When I change
to headers or a new manifold for the larger
turbos I figure I'll need larger
plumbing to expel the increased
flow.
In a message dated 11/7/98 6:08:39 PM !!!First Boot!!!, beking@home.com
writes:
<<
Arty,
Just curious, why do you want 3" pre-cat
replacements (or downpipe runners
for that
matter)?
Personally I think 3" is excessive. I haven't
done all of the math to
support what I think the right downpipe and
exhaust diameter is for the
length we are dealing with, but "bigger is
better" without tons of caveats
is a myth, plain and
simple.
Regards,
Barry
>>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:10:50 -0500
From: Bob Fontana <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: G-tech and clutch
The Broward disk holds up well against
slippage. Mine
didn't slip until it became contaminated with oil from
my
rear main seal.
- -Bob
- ----------
From: Brian[SMTP:bcdmad@concentric.net]
Sent:
Saturday, November 07, 1998 12:08 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
RE: Team3S: G-tech and clutch
I just put in a new clutch this week
also. It's a RPS
plate with a Broward
disk. I don't know if I
can slip this clutch or not. It
could prove to be
difficult.
Bob F. can you slip this clutch at all?
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 7 Nov 1998 17:07:25 -0500
From: "Fein, Edward" <fein@strategy.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Pre-Cat Info
- ---------- R.G. wrote: ------------
> - The
rear O2 housing / pre-cat is an _extremely_ complicated piece
of
pipe.
> The O2 housing mates directly to the turbo, with a 'B' or
'8' - shaped
> gasket.
Huh ? Mine had the very same gasket as the
front one. Also I thought to
remember
that there are two pieces on my
european model. Maybe another difference
between
EU and US. What year is
your car ? To be sure I'll recheck the parts on
Monday
as the car is still
at Mitsu.
> - There's no space back there. Sorry Arty, but you'll
never fit a 3" pipe
in
> that space without moving the firewall, power
steering hardlines, left
front
> drive shaft, or some combination of
the three. It is that tight.
Very true but a 2" should work :)
-
-------------------------------------
I misspoke. The Outline of the
gasket looks like a "B" or an "8", but
there's no bar accross the center...
It would have to be identical to the
one on the front turbo, since the turbo
exhaust outlets are the same shape.
The problem is that the O2 housing pipe
must have an _identical_ shape...
The stock pipe is about 2.5", actually,
and should be quite sufficient.
However, a 3" pipe won't fit between the
power steering lines and exhaust
manifold - or at least there won't be enough
room for you to reattach the
power steering hardline after installing the
pipe. The bottom end mounting
the 3" pipe also won't fit between the drive
shaft and footwell (unless you
get creative). Not to mention that everyone
here has a downpipe with a 2.5"
flange, and you'd have to switch that to 3"
as well.
Also, the 3" pipe backwards through where the cat (or test pipe)
is only
flows as well as two 2.5" pipes. So there's no point going to 3"
pre-cat
pipes unless you upgrade to 3.5" or 4" pipe from there back. This is
based
on the "flow is proportional to the fourth power of diameter" theory
which
Jack T quoted from his fluid dynamics physics
classes...
-Ed
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 7 Nov 1998 18:03:27 EST
From: NYMaxxNY@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: BLITZ
English manual
Hi Guys,
Can someone please explain how to tune
the BLITZ DSBC? I got mine with
japanese instructions and have
absolutley
no clue how to set it.
Thanks in advance,
Max '92vr4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 08 Nov 1998 01:06:58 +0100
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: BLITZ English manual
Hey Max,
I assume you already
installed so I start here. There is no explanation in the
english manual for
the tune-in procedure. These are the main things you have to
know
:
Modes : Ratio 1-4, Manual (not used without MAP Analyzer), OFF, Warn,
Scramble
Ratio : The % of the possible boost of the system
Gain :
Nobody knows for sure, but it has to do with spooling up the
turbos
Warn : Built-in boost-warning and -limiter (reducing
Ratio)
Scramble : Increase or reduce Ratio for a specific time when the Warn
level is
reached
There's no direct dial-in as each car act
different.
At first, set the limiter by turning the Mode knob until the
display turns red
and WARN blinks. Adjust the boost level for the limiter by
turning the Volume
knob. Dial it in to 1.05 bars for a start. Then push
Volume to switch to the
Ratio reducement. Turn Volume to get -5 (i.e. reduces
Ratio by 5 when hitting
1.05 bars). Limiter is set now.
Then go to one
of the Ratio settings (1,2,3,4) by turning Mode. Push Volume
several times
until you get the current Ratio level (10,20,etc.). Push and hold
Mode until
all 4 settings (and M) start blinking. Now turn Volume to dial in the
GAIN at
about 20 (conservative). Push Mode to store the level.
Now push the Mode
until one of the Ratio settings starts blinking. Again turn
Volume to set
Ratio of this channel to 40. Push Mode again to store the level.
Your
done for the beginning :) You have now G20/R40 W1.05/-5 (no scramble set)
Try
out how this works and increase the GAIN then at first. Also you may set
all
4 Ratio channels to 40,42,44,46 (or more) to check out the behaivour with
one
Gain and different Ratios. Increasing the Gain will help to get a
better
response but also causes more overboost. My setting is G42/R50
W1.05/-2 (I have
13Gs) and I'm getting short overboost to 1.1bar when
shifting and then stays on
1.05 bars up to the top. Your settings may be
showing lower Gain numbers as your
smaller turbos spool up
quicker.
For the display, push Volume to get the peak boost, current
boost, or settings.
When in PEAK boost pushing Mode clears the peak value and
stores the actual one
as peak.
Scramble boost allows you to increase
or decrease the Ratio by aspecific amount
(Px) for a specific time (Cx) when
the limiter is hit. Scramble can be set by
turning Mode until Px or Cx
appears (blinking L). Push Volume until you get the
Px display. Now turn
Volume for the desired Ratio in- or decrease. Push Volume
again to get the Cx
display and turn the volume to get the time in seconds. Try
this out when you
are familiar with the rest as it adds the functionality to the
limter as well
as replaces it :)
Hope this helps ;-) and ..... never forget to set the
WARN with a reducement of
the Ratio level !
Cheer, Roger
-
-----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo
(Animale Rosso)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 07 Nov 1998 21:56:01 -0500
From: Brian <bcdmad@concentric.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: BLITZ English manual
Call Chien at Nexus. He can fax
them to you in English.
At 06:03 PM 11/7/98 EST, you wrote:
>
Hi Guys,
>Can someone please explain how to tune the BLITZ DSBC? I got
mine with
>japanese instructions and have absolutley
>no clue how to
set it.
>Thanks in advance,
>Max '92vr4
>For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
>
93
VR-4
# 0007
Tampa/Orlando FL
"He who laughs last ... thinks
slowest"
______________________________________
Email Brian_Danley@parsons.com
bcdmad@concentric.net
Homepage http://www.concentric.net/~bcdmad
______________________________________
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sat, 07 Nov 1998 22:10:55 -0500
From: Brian <bcdmad@concentric.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: BLITZ English manual
Great instructions RG. Setting the
ratio channels will help alot at the
track with stock turbos. As the old
tread stated that at high RPM's
5500-7000 you start to loose boost. If
you set them fairly close you can
switch on the fly and maintain a great
boost preasure (going from 43 to 45
or something). Be sure to have a
aftermarket boost controler, ( I found
that the Blitz is very accurate but
just in case) and be sure that you
don't overboost. Go and do small changes
as ratio's and gain together can
make a big diffrence when changed. best to
set the gain and just play with
the ratio until you feel comfy. Once you feel
you can "contol" the DSBC
well and get it "dialed in" then go and reduce the
ratio and increase the
gain ( reduce the ratio more that the increase in
gain) and see what the
optimum effects are. You'll fine a point where
you just gotta leave the
gain alone :)
>Also you may set
all
>4 Ratio channels to 40,42,44,46 (or more) to check out the behaivour
with one
>Gain and different Ratios. Increasing the Gain will help to get
a better
>response but also causes more overboost. My setting is G42/R50
W1.05/-2 (I
have
>13Gs) and I'm getting short overboost to 1.1bar when
shifting and then
stays on
>1.05 bars up to the top. Your settings may
be showing lower Gain numbers
as your
>smaller turbos spool up
quicker.
>
93 VR-4
# 0007
Tampa/Orlando FL
"He who
laughs last ... thinks
slowest"
______________________________________
Email Brian_Danley@parsons.com
bcdmad@concentric.net
Homepage http://www.concentric.net/~bcdmad
______________________________________
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Sun, 08 Nov 1998 12:01:46 +0100
From: Mike Chapleski <mike.chapleski@ibm.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Air to water intercooler
>
> A friend of mine used
to pack his inter cooler with dry ice for drag racing.
> Another
interesting idea is the same thing the air racers use called a spray
> bar
that sprays a mist over the coolers to add efficiency. Looking for an
>
added boost for a few pennies?
I don't think dry ice works very well in
the October 1998 issue of Turbo there was an
article about this. Check
page 122 and I quote:
"Despite its -70 degree temperature,
dry ice is a cooling myth. Dry ice emits CO2
and when water comes in
contact with the ice it actually comes in contact with the CO2
which offers
surprising little cooling power."
And some other important
facts:
"Air-to-liquid units offer better cooling
capacity in a smaller size."
"Converting an air-to-air
core to an air-to-liquid intercooler is not advised
because the fin
separation difference of the air-to-air core compromises its
performance
in a liquid application."
This
article also had an interesting comparison of a Turbonetics ball-bearing
turbo
vs. a conventional bearing (what ever that is) turbo. On
the Supra they tested this
on, the ball-bearing turbo pushed 11.4 more
horsepower. So if you are upgrading, this
sounds like a good
option. Per the article "they are worth one size on the
compressor
wheel."
Mike C.
0018
'95 Stealth RT TT
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