--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #19
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest         Sunday, November 8 1998         Volume 01 : Number 019




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 22:56:50 -0500
From: "Fein, Edward" <fein@strategy.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Air to water intercooler

>Relocate the battery mount the IC in its place and shorten all the
>intercooler plumbing by several meters.

For anyone interested in this... I'm in the process of relocating my
batterry (very long project - given my current work schedule I'm looking at
a few more months).

There is a HUGE amount of space if you pull the batterry, mounting plate,
and front windshield washer resevoir. Plenty of room to work with. And no,
I'm not sure what I'll use it for on mine.

  -Ed
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 23:18:03 -0500
From: "Fein, Edward" <fein@strategy.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ATR pre-cats (TT only)

- ----- Chris wrote: -------------
I pointed out there also are some VR4 owners who have gutted the pre-cats
and found
a difference (placebo effect?). She said she would have one of the engineers
go over their records and review
the data. She said, even if it didn't appear to be a performance
improvement, but we had a demand for 15 or
more sets, they would probably quote on it.
- ---------------------------------


With gutted precats, the turbos spool up quicker - quite noticably so. Upon
gutting the precats, you'll have to readjust all the settings on your boost
controller, to allow it to adapt to the new boost spool-up curve.

Underhood temps also drop noticably. That will lead to cooler intake temps
for a couple more horses at least. And the turbos also seem to be able to
produce / hold a little more pressure with that restriction removed.

Not that I'm admitting to any mods on my car of questionable legality... ;-)


But I'd say they'd have no problems finding 15 buyers near-instantly.

   -Ed
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 23:03:07 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: ATR pre-cats (TT only)

Good news Chris.  They didn't say "no".  :)

I personally am not concerned about heat shield mounts (as was pointed out
in a previous post) since wrap could just as effectively be used in that
location.  Just so long as the piece mates with the turbo properly and
adequate are is given for w/g exhaust and O2 sensor fitment, all should be
good.


Regards,

Barry

<snip>

> She said, even if it didn't appear to be a performance
> improvement, but we had a demand for 15 or
> more sets, they would probably quote on it.
>
> Next news when she calls back.
>
> Looking forward...Chris

<snip>

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 08:54:28 +0100
From: Jim Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject: Re: Team3S: G-tech and clutch

Barry E. King wrote:
>
> I managed a 3.7 (measured via G-tech) once without launching it too hard.  I
> actually think it might do even better with practice.  I have not since
> reproduced that time due to the fact that the clutch was failing badly.  I
> won't quote exact quarter mile times as measured by the G-tech but I know
> the car will do high 11s based on G-Tech numbers I have observed.  I will
> wait for an official dragstrip run before I post any 1320' times.

Barry,
Excellent 0-60 times!  I can only imagine what shaving
a second off of my best time might feel like.  But why not post
your G-Tech quarter mile figures?  I would be most interested
to see them.  Many folks (like myself) will not visit a
dragstrip and have only G-Tech readings on which to base
comparisons.  If you are worried that folks will confuse the
G-Tech times and speeds with actual drag stip times and speeds
(the times should be very similar and the G-Tech speeds will
be faster since it is an absolute speed at the end of the run
compared with an average speed over the last stretch of the
track where you are still accelerating), you can avoid this
by making sure that you indicate how you obtained the figures.
Thanx.
-Jim
- --
Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de (64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews

*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0 bar @ 70/84% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Bosch Winged Wipers
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, TS (so far): 166mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 12:46:24 +0100
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Pre-Cat Info

Thanks a lot to Ed who sent a very good description on the pre-cats :)

If anyone have gutted cats, are you still able to pass the emission tests ? My
theory is saying yes but I'm not 100% sure. We have to do the test every two
years in Switzerland and it must be within the tolerances given at the first
time the car was measured :(

> - The rear O2 housing / pre-cat is an _extremely_ complicated piece of pipe.
> The O2 housing mates directly to the turbo, with a 'B' or '8' - shaped
> gasket.

Huh ? Mine had the very same gasket as the front one. Also I thought to remember
that there are two pieces on my european model. Maybe another difference between
EU and US. What year is your car ? To be sure I'll recheck the parts on Monday
as the car is still at Mitsu.

> - There's no space back there. Sorry Arty, but you'll never fit a 3" pipe in
> that space without moving the firewall, power steering hardlines, left front
> drive shaft, or some combination of the three. It is that tight.

Very true but a 2" should work :)

> Take it from someone who's been there... gut the rear cat on the car, and
> don't bother trying to replace it.

We had to remove the transaxle and the oil pan to get onto the parts (engine was
always in the car during the rebuild) Removing the precat was easily then.

Cheers,
Roger

- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 09:37:09 -0500
From: Bob Fontana <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Pre-Cat Info

Hi,

Don't lose any of that pre-cat material - save it!  Hehehe.

The whole purpose of the pre-cats as I understand it is for
the material to get red-hot and burn off the excess fuel
that exists when the mixture is rich during warmup.  Excess
fuel in the exhaust will damage your main cat, eventually
causing the rotten egg smell.  So, no pre-cats requires an
off-road test pipe.

My car passes emissions without the pre-cats.  I install
the main cat and switch the VPC to the stock injector
program and make it idle super lean before I start up the
car.  Then I run it super hard on the way there.  The lean
VPC setting to raises the CO level a bit but brings the HC
to well within specs, all without damaging the main cat.

- -Bob (off-road use only) Fontana

- ----------
From: R.G.[SMTP:robby@swissonline.ch]
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 1998 6:46 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Pre-Cat Info

Thanks a lot to Ed who sent a very good description on the 
 pre-cats :)

If anyone have gutted cats, are you still able to pass the
emission tests ? My
theory is saying yes but I'm not 100% sure. We have to do
the test every two
years in Switzerland and it must be within the tolerances
given at the first
time the car was measured :(

>
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 12:08:24 -0500
From: Brian <bcdmad@concentric.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: G-tech and clutch

I just put in a new clutch this week also.  It's a RPS plate with a Broward
disk.  I don't know if I can slip this clutch or not.  It could prove to be
difficult.  Bob F.  can you slip this clutch at all?

At 03:12 PM 11/6/98 -0700, you wrote:
>I managed a 3.7 (measured via G-tech) once without launching it too hard.  I
>actually think it might do even better with practice.  I have not since
>reproduced that time due to the fact that the clutch was failing badly.  I
>won't quote exact quarter mile times as measured by the G-tech but I know
>the car will do high 11s based on G-Tech numbers I have observed.  I will
>wait for an official dragstrip run before I post any 1320' times.
>
>I too have a new clutch to test once I get the car back on the road.  I hope
>it works as well as yours seems to.
>
>The fact that your clutch is slippable is a good thing.  That can not only
>improve launches but reduce strain on the driveline otherwise fealt with
>dumping techniques.  Many clutches won't tolerate slipping however.  If
>yours holds up then maybe there is a market for it over here.
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Barry
>
>
>Original message from Mikael Åkesson:
>
><snip>
>
>> With the old clutch I started at 5000rpm and dumped the clutch
>> and that resulted in almost no wheel spin at all. First I started
>> with dumping the new clutch at 4500rpm's and the rear end broke
>> out sidways (alot) and all wheels spun thru whole 1:st gear. Hmm
>> no good but the time indicated 4.8 and that is good. I had a hard
>> time to figure out the best technique to start but ended up doing
>> 4.41 by slipping the clutch (it doesn't slip that much :) at
>> slightly under 4000rpm's.
>> I feel that I can do even better times when I have practiced more
>> with this clutch.
>>
>> For all dragracers: test this kind of clutch disc, I think you
>> will like it.
>>
>> Have anyone with bigger turbos and VPC and stuff tested a Gtech??
>> If so what 0-60 times did you get? And what 1/4 mile times?
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
>
93 VR-4
# 0007
Tampa/Orlando FL

"He who laughs last ... thinks slowest"

______________________________________
Email Brian_Danley@parsons.com
bcdmad@concentric.net

Homepage http://www.concentric.net/~bcdmad
______________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 12:07:19 EST
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: Salvage 93 VR-4 wanted

Has anyone seen a stripped rolling 93 VR-4 chassis (no Eng., tranny or
interior - but with wheels) in a salvage yard someplace? And do you recall
what they were asking for it?
Arty 91 VR-4
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 11:53:26 EST
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Pre-Cat Info

Ed, unless they new Precat pipes can be made with at least a 3" size I'd see
no reason to purchase. Mine have been cleanly gutted. I guess there is no
alternative route to fit a 3". What about when Trust sells those 20 G headers
with the new turbo mounts...What the heck do they do with the routing. The
plumbing must be substantially larger?
Arty 91 VR-4

In a message dated 11/7/98 3:57:35 AM !!!First Boot!!!, fein@strategy.com
writes:

<< replicate.
 - There's no space back there. Sorry Arty, but you'll never fit a 3" pipe in
 that space without moving the firewall, power steering hardlines, left front
 drive shaft, or some combination of the three. It is that tight.
 - As a consequence of the lack of space, test fitting a pipe is
 near-impossible. >>
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 11:08:42 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Pre-Cat Info

Arty,

Just curious, why do you want 3" pre-cat replacements (or downpipe runners
for that matter)?

Personally I think 3" is excessive.  I haven't done all of the math to
support what I think the right downpipe and exhaust diameter is for the
length we are dealing with, but "bigger is better" without tons of caveats
is a myth, plain and simple.


Regards,

Barry

> Ed, unless they new Precat pipes can be made with at least a 3"
> size I'd see no reason to purchase. Mine have been cleanly gutted. I guess
there is no
> alternative route to fit a 3". What about when Trust sells those
> 20 G headers with the new turbo mounts...What the heck do they do
> with the routing. The plumbing must be substantially larger?
> Arty 91 VR-4

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 13:19:57 EST
From: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Pre-Cat Info

I'm just getting ready for larger turbos. I don't want to end up doing
something twice.
Actually, the gutted precats are working great on my 15G setup. When I change
to headers or a new manifold for the larger turbos I figure I'll need larger
plumbing to expel the increased flow.

In a message dated 11/7/98 6:08:39 PM !!!First Boot!!!, beking@home.com
writes:

<<
 Arty,
 
 Just curious, why do you want 3" pre-cat replacements (or downpipe runners
 for that matter)?
 
 Personally I think 3" is excessive.  I haven't done all of the math to
 support what I think the right downpipe and exhaust diameter is for the
 length we are dealing with, but "bigger is better" without tons of caveats
 is a myth, plain and simple.
 
 
 Regards,
 
 Barry
  >>
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:10:50 -0500
From: Bob Fontana <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: G-tech and clutch

The Broward disk holds up well against slippage.  Mine
didn't slip until it became contaminated with oil from my
rear main seal.

- -Bob
- ----------
From: Brian[SMTP:bcdmad@concentric.net]
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 1998 12:08 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: G-tech and clutch

I just put in a new clutch this week also.  It's a RPS
plate with a Broward
disk.  I don't know if I can slip this clutch or not.  It
could prove to be
difficult.  Bob F.  can you slip this clutch at all?


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 17:07:25 -0500
From: "Fein, Edward" <fein@strategy.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Pre-Cat Info

- ---------- R.G. wrote: ------------
> - The rear O2 housing / pre-cat is an _extremely_ complicated piece of
pipe.
> The O2 housing mates directly to the turbo, with a 'B' or '8' - shaped
> gasket.

Huh ? Mine had the very same gasket as the front one. Also I thought to
remember
that there are two pieces on my european model. Maybe another difference
between
EU and US. What year is your car ? To be sure I'll recheck the parts on
Monday
as the car is still at Mitsu.

> - There's no space back there. Sorry Arty, but you'll never fit a 3" pipe
in
> that space without moving the firewall, power steering hardlines, left
front
> drive shaft, or some combination of the three. It is that tight.

Very true but a 2" should work :)
- -------------------------------------

I misspoke. The Outline of the gasket looks like a "B" or an "8", but
there's no bar accross the center... It would have to be identical to the
one on the front turbo, since the turbo exhaust outlets are the same shape.
The problem is that the O2 housing pipe must have an _identical_ shape...

The stock pipe is about 2.5", actually, and should be quite sufficient.
However, a 3" pipe won't fit between the power steering lines and exhaust
manifold - or at least there won't be enough room for you to reattach the
power steering hardline after installing the pipe. The bottom end mounting
the 3" pipe also won't fit between the drive shaft and footwell (unless you
get creative). Not to mention that everyone here has a downpipe with a 2.5"
flange, and you'd have to switch that to 3" as well.

Also, the 3" pipe backwards through where the cat (or test pipe) is only
flows as well as two 2.5" pipes. So there's no point going to 3" pre-cat
pipes unless you upgrade to 3.5" or 4" pipe from there back. This is based
on the "flow is proportional to the fourth power of diameter" theory which
Jack T quoted from his fluid dynamics physics classes...

   -Ed



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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 18:03:27 EST
From: NYMaxxNY@aol.com
Subject: Team3S: BLITZ English manual

  Hi Guys,
Can someone please explain how to tune the BLITZ DSBC? I got mine with
japanese instructions and have absolutley
no clue how to set it.
Thanks in advance,
Max '92vr4
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 01:06:58 +0100
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: BLITZ English manual

Hey Max,

I assume you already installed so I start here. There is no explanation in the
english manual for the tune-in procedure. These are the main things you have to
know :

Modes : Ratio 1-4, Manual (not used without MAP Analyzer), OFF, Warn, Scramble
Ratio : The % of the possible boost of the system
Gain  : Nobody knows for sure, but it has to do with spooling up the turbos
Warn  : Built-in boost-warning and -limiter (reducing Ratio)
Scramble : Increase or reduce Ratio for a specific time when the Warn level is
reached

There's no direct dial-in as each car act different.

At first, set the limiter by turning the Mode knob until the display turns red
and WARN blinks. Adjust the boost level for the limiter by turning the Volume
knob. Dial it in to 1.05 bars for a start. Then push Volume to switch to the
Ratio reducement. Turn Volume to get -5 (i.e. reduces Ratio by 5 when hitting
1.05 bars). Limiter is set now.

Then go to one of the Ratio settings (1,2,3,4) by turning Mode. Push Volume
several times until you get the current Ratio level (10,20,etc.). Push and hold
Mode until all 4 settings (and M) start blinking. Now turn Volume to dial in the
GAIN at about 20 (conservative). Push Mode to store the level.

Now push the Mode until one of the Ratio settings starts blinking. Again turn
Volume to set Ratio of this channel to 40. Push Mode again to store the level.

Your done for the beginning :) You have now G20/R40 W1.05/-5 (no scramble set)
Try out how this works and increase the GAIN then at first. Also you may set all
4 Ratio channels to 40,42,44,46 (or more) to check out the behaivour with one
Gain and different Ratios. Increasing the Gain will help to get a better
response but also causes more overboost. My setting is G42/R50 W1.05/-2 (I have
13Gs) and I'm getting short overboost to 1.1bar when shifting and then stays on
1.05 bars up to the top. Your settings may be showing lower Gain numbers as your
smaller turbos spool up quicker.

For the display, push Volume to get the peak boost, current boost, or settings.
When in PEAK boost pushing Mode clears the peak value and stores the actual one
as peak.

Scramble boost allows you to increase or decrease the Ratio by aspecific amount
(Px) for a specific time (Cx) when the limiter is hit. Scramble can be set by
turning Mode until Px or Cx appears (blinking L). Push Volume until you get the
Px display. Now turn Volume for the desired Ratio in- or decrease. Push Volume
again to get the Cx display and turn the volume to get the time in seconds. Try
this out when you are familiar with the rest as it adds the functionality to the
limter as well as replaces it :)

Hope this helps ;-) and ..... never forget to set the WARN with a reducement of
the Ratio level !

Cheer, Roger

- -----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 21:56:01 -0500
From: Brian <bcdmad@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: BLITZ English manual

Call Chien at Nexus.  He can fax them to you in English.

At 06:03 PM 11/7/98 EST, you wrote:
>  Hi Guys,
>Can someone please explain how to tune the BLITZ DSBC? I got mine with
>japanese instructions and have absolutley
>no clue how to set it.
>Thanks in advance,
>Max '92vr4
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
>
93 VR-4
# 0007
Tampa/Orlando FL

"He who laughs last ... thinks slowest"

______________________________________
Email Brian_Danley@parsons.com
bcdmad@concentric.net

Homepage http://www.concentric.net/~bcdmad
______________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 22:10:55 -0500
From: Brian <bcdmad@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: BLITZ English manual

Great instructions RG.  Setting the ratio channels will help alot at the
track with stock turbos. As the old tread stated that at high RPM's
5500-7000 you start to loose boost.  If you set them fairly close you can
switch on the fly and maintain a great boost preasure (going from 43 to 45
or something). Be sure to have a aftermarket boost controler, ( I found
that the Blitz is very accurate but just in case) and be sure that you
don't overboost. Go and do small changes as ratio's and gain together can
make a big diffrence when changed. best to set the gain and just play with
the ratio until you feel comfy. Once you feel you can "contol" the DSBC
well and get it "dialed in" then go and reduce the ratio and increase the
gain ( reduce the ratio more that the increase in gain) and see what the
optimum effects are.  You'll fine a point where you just gotta leave the
gain alone :)

>Also you may set all
>4 Ratio channels to 40,42,44,46 (or more) to check out the behaivour with one
>Gain and different Ratios. Increasing the Gain will help to get a better
>response but also causes more overboost. My setting is G42/R50 W1.05/-2 (I
have
>13Gs) and I'm getting short overboost to 1.1bar when shifting and then
stays on
>1.05 bars up to the top. Your settings may be showing lower Gain numbers
as your
>smaller turbos spool up quicker.
>

93 VR-4
# 0007
Tampa/Orlando FL

"He who laughs last ... thinks slowest"

______________________________________
Email Brian_Danley@parsons.com
bcdmad@concentric.net

Homepage http://www.concentric.net/~bcdmad
______________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 12:01:46 +0100
From: Mike Chapleski <mike.chapleski@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Air to water intercooler

>
> A friend of mine used to pack his inter cooler with dry ice for drag racing.
> Another interesting idea is the same thing the air racers use called a spray
> bar that sprays a mist over the coolers to add efficiency. Looking for an
> added boost for a few pennies?

I don't think dry ice works very well in the October 1998 issue of Turbo there was an
article about this.  Check page 122 and I quote:
    "Despite its -70 degree temperature, dry ice is a cooling myth.  Dry ice emits CO2
and when water comes in contact with the ice it actually comes in contact with the CO2
which offers surprising little cooling power."

And some other important facts:

    "Air-to-liquid units offer better cooling capacity in a smaller size."

    "Converting an air-to-air core to an air-to-liquid intercooler is not advised
because the fin separation difference of the air-to-air core compromises its performance
in  a liquid application."

    This article also had an interesting comparison of a Turbonetics ball-bearing turbo
vs. a conventional bearing (what ever that is)  turbo.  On the Supra they tested this
on, the ball-bearing turbo pushed 11.4 more horsepower.  So if you are upgrading, this
sounds like a good option.  Per the article "they are worth one size on the compressor
wheel."

Mike C.
0018
'95 Stealth RT TT

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------------------------------

End of Team3S Digest V1 #19
***************************

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