--
From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
(Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S Digest V1 #11
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
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Precedence:
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Team3S Digest
Thursday, October 29 1998 Volume 01 :
Number
011
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:24:01 +0100
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Identification of the EU turbos
> Well, that would explain why
Roger's turbos spool up slower
> than mine but can hold 1.0 bar to
redline.
Hmmm, I remember that the spool up was much better before the
engine got weaker
and weaker. I doubt that the 9B and 13G make a big
difference in spool-up and
that it was so noticeable in our
comparision.
> But I find it very interesting that Roger and I are
seeing the exact same
> G-Tech times when he has (in addition to my mods)
DP, exhaust, AFC,
> a boost controller that holds 1.0 bar to redline, and
13G turbos,
> not to mention that he is a better driver than
I.
Nononono, I'm a REAL BAD starter and even with my modified Z28 I'm too
stupid to
see figures under 13.9 :( Same cars with same mods see about 13.4 !
Also I maybe
good in driving the cars around corners and so but this doesn't
mean that I'm
the better driver than you ;-)
For the mods, I also
wonder why our EU cars are lower hp rated (284 DIN) than
the US cars. With
13G the stock max boost is only around 0.45bars but with the
bleeder set
around 0.7bars I got healthy 350hp. For the exhaust, I still stand
behind the
theory that without removing the pre-cats no big gains can be
achieved (with
13G !) Even with the DP, !cat and Borla I saw no improvement at
all :( The
AFC doesn't help anything. I thought to get rid of the fuel cut
and
hesitation and it does, but I runned pretty quick into fuel-cut as I
tried to
richen the mixture. Therefore, the thing would be great to fine-tune
a healthy
system that is able to deliver enough fuel. Around 4000-4500 we
were able to
lean it out a little more and got about 10hp then. But knock was
still there :(
For the turbos, they are really 13Gs (thanks a lot to all
that replied).
Therefore it is more clear why it holds boost up to the
redline. But don't
forget Mikaels setup. His US-car has the 9B and boost is
also hold pretty well.
Interestingly, we had about the same settings for the
Blitz until he used the
engine flush. Now it seems that his spool-up also got
quicker, Mikael ?
> I must say that I am very skeptical... If it
is true, then I'm in no hurry
> to run out and blow money on all of those
mods.
You are right ! I was too much a believer and thats why I was
somewhat
dissapointed on the dyno results (with the DSBC switched off). Today
the path is
more clear. And this says that the turbos are the very next
upgrade after the BC
and Filter. This then must be combined as good as
possible with exhaust parts
that are free of restrictions. Then also fuel and
cooling must be enhanced to go
the safe way. Don't forget the EGT probes to
monitor the danger ! All these
stuff means : $$$
BTW, I wonder how the
huge 386S turbos will show lag (size like a 20G). Of
course, I have to find a
way to get rid of the pre-cats !
Cheers,
Roger
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:28:54 +0100
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Identification of the EU turbos
> Regarding to the Mitsubishi
importer in Sweden there is NO difference between
> the US turbo and Euro
turbo.
The picture I took form the stock babies are showing that these
are 13Gs indeed.
Maybe with the todays models they have all the same size ? I
remember that Mitsu
Switz. told me that the Turbos, Injectors, ECUs and
Brakes are different. Also
the EU cars do not have the adjustable exhaust
(always open)
Later,
Roger
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 28 Oct 1998 14:15:54 -0800
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
RE: Boost Controllers (was: Team3S: Identification of the EU
turbos)
Roger asked...
Can you please specify what your modified
intake is, the air filter or more?
Chris replies...
Just a HKS
filter.
Roger states...
I sent him a feature comparison table with
the Blitz DSBC and the S-AVCR with weightings to help for his
decision.
Chris asks...
Can we see this? Since "we" made the
rule we can't add attachments, could you send it to me privately? I'm
toying
with the idea of getting a Blitz to replace my GReddy. It would actually be neat
if we could compare
spec sheets on all of them. Some one added a fifth to
the list of abbreviations Darc started (thanks Darc). I
suppose we could
make it six if we add the age old aquarium petcock (I mean valve, if that sounds
better).
:-)
Looking forward...Chris
"Friends don't let
friends ride with me"
1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 28 Oct 1998 14:42:07 -0800
From: Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject:
Team3S: More on (not moron) boost controllers
Howdy folks...
I was
digging through my old e-mails searching for some downpipe/test pipe dealer
numbers and came across
this piece on Boost Controllers. I've snipped some
of the excess text, but it's still long. It was a response
to a similar
thread as we've been discussing. The author is credited at the
end.
Looking forward...Chris
"Friends don't let friends ride with
me"
1995 Glacier Pearl White
VR4
=================================
HKS EVC IV:
Not all that
impressed with it. I still think it looks better than some of the other units
out there. Have
installed it on a
DSM and it ran fine. Did a
RX-7......owner wanted it out in 3 weeks and swapped it for a Apex. Horror
stories
from some 3/S list members as well as owners from other makes. I've
never had a problem with this unit
personally, but it wouldn't be my first
choice for a electronic boost controller (price is higher than the
competition). A 3 on a scale of 5.
Greddy Profec
A $530
I like this unit
very much. I've been impressed with it's boost stability and responsiveness. The
price isn't
bad when you compare
this to the HKS and the Apex. The red
display is a little bit better in the sunlight than the green in the
AVC-R
(when mounting in any location where it's prone to be hit by sunlight). We run
this in our own VR-4.
Don't care much for the looks though. 5 out of
5.
Apex Super AVC-R
$550
Another unit that I like. Performance between the AVC-R and the
Profec is a near tie. Very nice at holding
boost. You also get the added
feature of injector duty cycle monitoring. No fuzzy logic. Programming is done
by setting the duty cycle and making some WOT runs under load (usually 3rd
gear). This unit is supposedly
easier to tune than the Fuzzy Logic
controllers that's so highly touted by it's competitors. I'm not so sure
of
that. Apex has it right in theory, but I think most people get confused with
setting and tuning the
injector duty cycle. Also, the actuator valve can be
noisy. On some cars (like my GSX...grrr), it's near
impossible to find a
location that drowns out the noise. Apex supplies a damping mount, sort of like
a little
piece of Dyna-Mat, but sometimes that does not even work. The
result is a constant ticking sound when under
high boost that's very audible
in the cabin. Of course I'm just nitpicking here. 4 out of 5. Would
have
rated it higher if not for the confusing duty cycle
setting.
Blitz Dual
SBC $480
Features
and Performance of the Blitz DSBC is a near clone of the Greddy Profec "A".
Looks better too. This
unit is a tiny one. Ease of mounting and the
numerous mounting locations because of size is a plus. Thumbs
down to the
display. It's good, but it's tiny as well. Most folks likes to run a boost gauge
that reads in
Psi anyway. Very high quality unit, and priced much lower than
the competition. 5 out of 5. The AVC-R in the
GSX is about to find a new
home..........
SARD
EBC
$490
EBC? Are we talking about the SARD Trigger here? The Trigger
is a boost gauge looking unit (round, fits in
A-pillar though I'm not sure
if it's 52mm). Basically, a very compact boost controller in the body of a boost
gauge. Not sure about performance, but I think it can be successful if
market properly. Which btw, Sard and
Akimoto have done a very poor job of.
It came out in Japan a few months ago, and I saw it at SEMA in
Akimoto's
booth....that's about it. I suppose it was designed to be mounted like a boost
gauge (which
normally goes on the A-pillar), but the resulting wiring
harnesses and vacuum hoses must be a nightmare to
route. No
rating.
***All opinions expressed are my own. Your satisfaction may
differ. Please, no flames from the HKS or Apex
camps :) ***
-
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chien
Nexus
Motorsports Import Performance Parts
Specialist
Phone: (888) 996-3988 The Fastest 3000GT/Stealth 1/4
Mile Times Page
http://www.nexusmotorsports.com
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 28 Oct 1998 16:47:31 -0800
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Boost
Controllers (was: Team3S: Identification of the EU turbos)
Chris Winkley
wrote:
> Howdy folks...
>
> Thought I'd jump in with a
third, somewhat subjective perspective. I have the GReddy PRofec BC on my VR4.
Now
> that I've got it programmed properly, it's a kick in the
pants. :-) As for holding boost, it appears to
> stay at
1.1 bar (where it's programmed) all the way to 7Krpm. I have yet to test the OTB
(overtake boost)
> button which I programmed at 1.3 bar (concerned about
fuel delivery and detonation). FWIW, I have stock
> turbos and injectors
w/modified intake and exhaust. Now that I have a G-Tech, I'll get some objective
numbers
> back to you all when the streets are dry. Oh, the gas is 92
octane here in Portland, but I usually throw in a
> can or two of
"off-road" only
booster.
<snip>
Looking forward to your figures when those streets dry up
Chris. If my Apexi ever arrives, I should be running in
the same ballpark
with you, as my mods are modest compared to some Team members
here.
>
>
> Didn't Darc say Jim (or someone?) has done
a comparison of the different controllers? I'd love to see that
>
document.
About this comparative analysis...Roger did it and
posted it to me on Apex-i and Blitz, back when I was undecided
which way to
go. As he went to a lot of effort to point score them, maybe you can twist his
arm and see if he
will post here. It's a damn good comparison. With some
other input, we may end up with a good comparative chart
of all the BC's thus
tested by members of the Team!
Darc
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:56:23 -0600
From: "Todd D Shelton" <tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Team3S: Fw:
Parts
Here's some S3K parts for sell I was asked
to forward to the
lists. Hope this is acceptable
to do on this list.
- -
tds
http://www.brightok.net/~tds
-
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
---------------
The following parts are available to those looking for
parts:
1. HKS turbo exhaust for 3/S turbo cars single tip dual exhaust
$400.00
2. HKS EVC I with manual knob and low /high settings. The
easiest to set of
all the boost controllers. $300.00
3. OZ Mito
Modular 17 X 8.5 rims for 3/S cars particularly TT models. Same
wheels on
Roger Gerl's car. Nice $1250.00 including shipping.
4. HKS Super
Dragger for 3/S TT cars (one off my show car)...$600.00
5. Greddy 60mm
boost gauge (white face) non-electronic. $50.00
6. 5spd rear differential
(2) $500.00 each
7. Extremeor Body Kit (Original) painted pearl white.
Fits 2nd gen 3/S only.
$2000.00
8. HKS Front mount Intercooler.
Modified to fit 3/S car, originally for TT
Supra. $1500.00
9. 3/S
fiberglass hood looks like TRD Supra hood with venting, painted
(pearl
white), has stock latching mech. Fits 94+ S3K's $500.00
10.
Crane DI2 ignition boxes for 3/S cars (off my show car). $500.00 for
the
pair.
11. AVS Super Advan Wheels for 3/S cars as seen on many of
the Japanesse
cars from Westcoast car club in Japan. Also seen on Todd's site
on the
Extremeor car and also on RPM's web site as well on the Extremor
car.
12. Bunch of misc. parts are available from the strip down of our
96' 3000GT
SPIDER VR-4, all the interior parts, gauges, axles, suspension
etc. If you
are looking for something we probably have it..The car is finally
down to
"bare bones" and if you need a FULL floor pan and firewall with
front
windsheild we have it too......(a little chared due to being cut out of
the
car, (heh heh)..!! Yes, we have, started the GT-399TR Spider
project.
Any questions please call us at (909) 394-5111 or e-mail us
at
THEGTALLEY@MSN.COM
Thanks,
Brian@The
GT ALLEY
3/S Performance Central
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 28 Oct 1998 23:00:39 -0600
From: "Oskar" <swede@pclink.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Identification of the EU turbos
First of all - Thanks to you guys who
started this list. I'm finding it
very useful as I'm lurking, trying to
figure out what path to take with my
car.
>For the turbos, they are
really 13Gs (thanks a lot to all that replied).
>Therefore it is more
clear why it holds boost up to the redline. But don't
>forget Mikaels
setup. His US-car has the 9B and boost is also hold
pretty
well.
>Interestingly, we had about the same settings for the
Blitz until he used
the
>engine flush. Now it seems that his spool-up
also got quicker, Mikael ?
I would like to comment on the DSBCs
ability to hold boost with the stock
turbos. I rode with Mikael the
other week and as I recall one of the main
things I was planning to check out
was his brakes. Well... I mostly kept
my eyes peeled on the boost
gauge as he screamed down the beautiful Swedish
countyside. I'm no
expert, but I tell you all, his car was holding boost a
hell of a lot better
than my stock (except K&N) '95 TT. The boost gauge
(mechanical) was
staying right around the dialed-in 15 psi all the way, and
the car was
pulling much stronger than stock in the higher RPM range.
I guess seeing
is believing. I will definitely go with the DSBC and I'll
let you know
of my results. Maybe I'll be able to do some semi-scientific
measuring
of before and after.
Mikael, I'm curious about the engine flush
mentioned. What did you do that
improved the
spool-up?
Oskar
'95 R/T TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 28 Oct 1998 23:14:56 -0600
From: "Oskar" <swede@pclink.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
C/D - Drag coefficient
---- begin snip ---
Your 2nd
generation Stealth has a Cd of 0.323. The first generation
Stealth has a Cd
of 0.33. I believe the published Cd of the VR-4
(which, if I recall, is
essentially the same as the Stealth) is without
active aero on. Adding
downforce will add induced drag, but I don't
know the amount of downforce
(and let's please not reopen the old
theoretical discussion on boundary layer
thickness!)
--- end snip ---
Does anyone know if the
Stealth rear wing actually generates any downforce?
It is also my
understanding, from previous posts, that the active aero
actually does aid in
keeping the 3K more stable at hight speeds as compared
to the Stealth.
So I guess AE is more than just a toy... Comments? Is the
3K
noticeably more stable?
Oskar
'95 R/T TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 29 Oct 1998 01:41:51 -0600
From: Brad Bedell <bbedell@texas.net>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: C/D - Drag coefficient
- ------
=_NextPart_000_01BE02DD.4DA2DEA0
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charset="us-ascii"
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Hrmm.. Yeah I think
it is more stable at speeds over 170mph...
I tested this theory
tonight. It feels safer, but it could just be effort
justification.
BTW: when that truck pulled out in front of me I just
taped the brakes and knocked 100mph off my speed. :)
The brembo setup is
well worth the money. Now I need to convert the rear brakes to four
piston.
> Brad
>
> Check out my home
page: http://lonestar.texas.net/~bbedell
>
E-Mail: bbedell@texas.net ICQ#
3612682
- -----Original Message-----
From: Oskar [SMTP:swede@pclink.com]
Sent:
Wednesday, October 28, 1998 11:15 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Re: Team3S: C/D - Drag coefficient
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-
------ =_NextPart_000_01BE02DD.4DA2DEA0--
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:03:26 +0100
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mikael_=C5kesson?="
<vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Engine Flush was: ID EU turbos
- -----Original-----
From:
Oskar <swede@pclink.com>
>Mikael, I'm
curious about the engine flush mentioned. What did you do
that
>improved the spool-up?
>
-
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here
is a letter that I sent to Roger regarding the "flush".
Hi
Roger,
Last night I tried a bottle of "engine flush". It's some oil
additive that you add to the oil and then drive the car for 15-30 minutes and
then change oil and filter. It's supposed to work as a internal engine wash and
shall remove all "dirt" inside the engine. I got this stuff from Mark and they
use it on the Mondeo 24V because they have the same ticking problem as the
3000gt have.
When I was driving with this stuff I had fuelcut where I
never had it before and the boost built up incredible fast and I had incredible
overboost. I didn't bother to adjust the Blitz at this point. I just headed back
home and changed oil and filter.
When driving to work this morning I
noticed the same fenomenon as last night. I have now taken the the Gain down 4
steps and the ratio down 5 steps I have aslo set the limiter at 1.03 instead of
1.10. And I now have faster spool up time and the same boost as before.
I
gues that this "magic engine flush" really cleaned something in my turbos and
they now spin easier.
It shall be very interesting to see if the
performance will hold or if it will go back to "normal" again.
/Mikael
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 29 Oct 1998 07:35:20 -0800
From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Engine Flush was: ID EU turbos
Mikael, team....
I also
used a flush recently ( made by Gunk), which was prompted by your success I
might add. I had purchased it long before but was aphrehensive about using it,
and so asked about it in a post, to which Roger responded about your success.
The ticking in my car has also stopped as the result of it's use. It was
slightly different than yours, as this product said NOT TO DRIVE the
vehicle
and to let idle for 5 minutes ONLY before draining oil and removing
filter. I'll try and find the drive around type next time, as it makes sense
that it would do more work if circulated longer and at different RPM's. I had
this one though, so I used it and am pleased.
Darc
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:14:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Dennis Moore <stealth@kiva.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Engine Flush
Is using Automatic Transmission Fluid for the same purpose a
bad idea?
Is it at all effective?
I've done it on my "salt
car" a time or two, but never put any in my
Stealth. My salt car (1985
Olds Firenza, 1.8l 4-banger, flogged hard) has
192K miles on it, so it can't
be *too* dangerous of a thing.
Dennis Moore
stealth@kiva.net
93 Stealth ES
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:02:40 +0100
From: Jim Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Identification of the EU turbos
R.G. wrote:
>
>
For the turbos, they are really 13Gs (thanks a lot to all that
replied).
So how do you know? How can you tell? The tubo
housing for
a 9B is the same as for a 13G. I know we couldn't see
the
numbers very well the day we tried to look with a flashlight;
now that
you can see them, do they show that there is a 13G
compressor wheel
inside? This is really quite interesting.
You'd better be careful
when installing performance mods that
you get from the states, since they
will surely be configured
for a U.S. spec car with different turbos,
injectors, ECU...
> Therefore it is more clear why it holds boost
up to the redline. But don't
> forget Mikaels setup. His US-car has the 9B
and boost is also hold pretty well.
This I cannot figure out. I
just plain don't see how one boost
controller can maintain the specified
boost pressure better than
another. It seems to me that reaching the
desired boost level is
the easy part - any controller can just keep the
wastegates closed.
The real challenge is doing this without overboosting, and
that's
where design counts (faster solonoids, etc.). Maybe the
AVC-R
_does_ have that IDC-based anti-lean mechanism afterall...
?
> Interestingly, we had about the same settings for the Blitz
until he used the
> engine flush. Now it seems that his spool-up also got
quicker, Mikael ?
This makes me nervous. Sounds like snake-oil to
me! How would
this be possible? I hope it causes no damage or
reduction in
durability. Reminds me of the story a go-kart racing
friend of
mine told me about the time he accidentally forgot to put oil
in
his kart. The thing ran like hell, just blowing by the
competition -
until the engine seized! :-|
> > I must say that I am
very skeptical... If it is true, then I'm in no hurry
> > to run
out and blow money on all of those mods.
>
> You are right ! I was
too much a believer and thats why I was somewhat
> dissapointed on the
dyno results (with the DSBC switched off). Today the path is
> more
clear.
I can't wait to see how your car performs with all of the
new
mods. It's going to be a monster! I hope things are
going
well with the rebuild.
-Jim
- --
Matthews - Wiesbaden,
Germany
matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de
(64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews
***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 70/84% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Bosch Winged
Wipers
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, TS
(so far): 166mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9
mph
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------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:43:25 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Engine Flush
- -----Original Message-----From: Dennis Moore
<stealth@kiva.net>
|Is using
Automatic Transmission Fluid for the same purpose a bad idea?
|Is it at all
effective?
|
|I've done it on my "salt car" a time or two, but never put
any in my
|Stealth. My salt car (1985 Olds Firenza, 1.8l 4-banger,
flogged hard)
has
|192K miles on it, so it can't be *too* dangerous of a
thing.
Through the years, there have been any number of borderline
"urban
legend" type suggestions of good, cheap ways to clean out gunk from
an
engine... I would think that, logically, many of them might not
even
cause damage, but they still scare me. Automatic transmission
fluid,
kerosene, turpentine, gasoline, alcohol, and even gun oil have been
sent
down through the rumor mill as being "great ways" to dissolve
sludge.
As effective as some of these may be as engine detergents, I think
logic
should rule and keep us away from anything that might slip past
the
rings (and cause more harm than good); this probably eliminates all
of
the "legends" that in their primary usage are "thinners" or "fuels".
It
probably also eliminates some of the OTC "engine cleaner" products
which
are still on the market since before the advent of
"small-bore",
higher-revving, high compression engines; unless a
product says, "made
expressly for today's high compression engines", I would
be reluctant to
put it in my crankcase.
Hopefully, we can get some
input from an engine specialist (engineer
variety) or carefully-researched
article. For now, the only thing I'll
use as an engine flush is a
lighter, "proper" lubricant, sloshed around
for a few minutes at high revs
(at idle, not under load), and quickly
replaced with the correct
oil.
Forrest
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:25:20 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Identification of the EU turbos
The compressor housing of the TD04L-13G-6
cm^2 has a different part number.
It is pretty obvious because right from
Mistubishi Heavy Industries the cast
in number in a TD04L-9B-6 cm^2
compressor housing has one digit ground off
and then stamped in (same
compressor housing other than larger bore for the
13G wheel).
Also,
the hot side (much harder to see with turbos in the car) is a
different part
number between the 9B and the 13G. The 13G has a slightly
higher A/R
ratio which accounts for the part number difference, even though
they are
both listed as 6 cm^2 housings. This information all comes
directly
from Mitsubisihi Heavy Industries in Chicago(?), verified by
Miami
International where I got my 15Gs built.
I agree with your
contention about the DSBC. The reason Roger's turbos held
boost better
has to do with the fact that he has 13Gs. I am yet to be
convinced that
the DSBC is any better at holding boost to redline than say
an AVC-R.
I'd have to see 15+ PSI in 2-4th at 7200 RPM on stock trubos to
believe
it. *shrug* I know for a fact that the AVC-R with my setup
never
overboosts. With the AVC-R set at 1.35 bar (approx 19.5 PSI) with
the MASC
overboost alram set to 20 PSI, it has never gone off. My SPI
gauge,the MASC
MAP sensor and the AVC-R all agree on manifold pressure.
I would expect
some overshoot from any controller.
As to the "snake
oil", although a healthy dose of skepticism is definitely a
good thing, the
claims made are certainly possible. Detergents can break up
and disolve
junk that gets stuck onto surfaces, especially the plain
bearings in our
turbos, and rejuvenate them. Faster spool-up would stand
to
reason.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On
Behalf Of Jim Matthews
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 1998 1:03 PM
>
To: Stealth ListService
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Identification of the EU
turbos
>
>
> R.G. wrote:
> >
> > For the
turbos, they are really 13Gs (thanks a lot to all that replied).
>
>
So how do you know? How can you tell? The tubo housing for
> a
9B is the same as for a 13G. I know we couldn't see the
> numbers
very well the day we tried to look with a flashlight;
> now that you can
see them, do they show that there is a 13G
> compressor wheel
inside? This is really quite interesting.
>
>
> >
Therefore it is more clear why it holds boost up to the
> redline. But
don't
> > forget Mikaels setup. His US-car has the 9B and boost is
also
> hold pretty well.
>
> This I cannot figure out. I
just plain don't see how one boost
> controller can maintain the specified
boost pressure better than
> another. It seems to me that reaching
the desired boost level is
> the easy part - any controller can just keep
the wastegates closed.
> The real challenge is doing this without
overboosting, and that's
> where design counts (faster solonoids,
etc.). Maybe the AVC-R
> _does_ have that IDC-based anti-lean
mechanism afterall... ?
>
>
> > Interestingly, we had about
the same settings for the Blitz
> until he used the
> > engine
flush. Now it seems that his spool-up also got quicker, Mikael ?
>
>
This makes me nervous. Sounds like snake-oil to me! How
would
> this be possible? I hope it causes no damage or reduction
in
> durability. Reminds me of the story a go-kart racing friend
of
> mine told me about the time he accidentally forgot to put oil
>
in his kart. The thing ran like hell, just blowing by the
>
competition - until the engine seized! :-|
>
>
> >
> I must say that I am very skeptical... If it is true, then
>
I'm in no hurry
> > > to run out and blow money on all of those
mods.
> >
> > You are right ! I was too much a believer and
thats why I was somewhat
> > dissapointed on the dyno results (with the
DSBC switched off).
> Today the path is
> > more
clear.
>
> I can't wait to see how your car performs with all of the
new
> mods. It's going to be a monster! I hope things are
going
> well with the rebuild.
>
> -Jim
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:02:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Dennis Moore <stealth@kiva.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Engine Flush
No problem there - the coating left on the inside of the
cylinders by the
Slick 50 should prevent any such leakage :o
(Forgive
me, I was young and ignorant 90K miles ago. I have since had
the error
of my ways pointed out to me.)
Word to the wise: Don't Use Slick 50, or
any similar cocktail. But
hopefully you all knew that already. If
you need more info, I'll dig out
a URL at the Department of Commerce with
more details on this subject.
Dennis Moore
stealth@kiva.net
93 Stealth ES
On
Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Bob Forrest wrote:
[snip]
> should rule and keep us
away from anything that might slip past the
> rings (and cause more harm
than good); this probably eliminates all of
[snip]
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:11:15 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Engine Flush
- -----Original Message-----From: Dennis Moore
<stealth@kiva.net>
|hopefully
you all knew that already. If you need more info, I'll dig
out
|a
URL at the Department of Commerce with more details on this
subject.
Please do! I'm keeping a folder of 'candidates' for
the FAQ; how to
flush (or how not to...) belongs in the
archives...
TIA,
Forrest
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 29 Oct 1998 22:55:56 +0100
From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Boost Controllers
This is a multi-part message in MIME
format.
- --------------B4494BF080842DFFC14C6AEC
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Ok, here it comes :)
(yes I found it somewhere in my sent items, <g>)
Attached you find
a small TXT file with the very subjective comparison of the
AVC-R and DSBC
controllers. Of course, everyone would enter their own weightings
of the
features, as for one could be a peak hold feature less important than for
the
other.
Maybe we can add features as well as other BC to the list
?
Later,
Roger
- -----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
-
--------------B4494BF080842DFFC14C6AEC
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=us-ascii;
name="Boost controllers,
comparison.txt"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition:
inline;
filename="Boost controllers, comparison.txt"
Please note
:
- - the figures are very subjective
- - feature range is 0 (not avail.,
bad) to 5 (great)
- - weight is 1 (unimportant) to 5 (very important)
- -
the weight and feature number are multiplicated and finally summarized
- -
during the "learning" what the BC can do the weighting or the features my
change
- - price is dealer
dependent
Feature
Blitz Apexi Weight (personally)
-
-----------------------------------------
Boost
gauge
4
5 5
Peak
hold
5
0
4
Inj.Monitor
0
5
3
Settings
4
2 3
Overboost, Warn
4
2 5 (important for me)
Easyness,
Learn 3
5
3
Cost
4
4
4
Install
5
4 3 (AVC-R needs connection to the
ECU)
High rpm boost
5
4 5 (important)
Low rpm
boost 4
5 5
(important)
Features
4
4
5
Solenoid
4
3
3
Manual
2
4 3 (not necessarily
needed)
Display
3
4 4
-
----------------------------------------
Total
207 201
-
--------------B4494BF080842DFFC14C6AEC--
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subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
------------------------------
End
of Team3S Digest V1 #11
***************************
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