--

From: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com (Team3S Digest)
To: stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S Digest V1 #4
Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Errors-To: owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com
Precedence: bulk


Team3S Digest        Thursday, October 22 1998        Volume 01 : Number 004




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:02:43 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Check Engine codes?

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Ed has a '94, but if someone knows how to manually pull the codes on a 94+
then I would also like this information.

I looked for but could not lcoate the Mistubishi test block that the 91-93
cars have.  Maybe I missed it.

'94 was quasi-ODBII in that it has the ISO ODBII style diagnostics port,
ODBII style ECU pinouts, some ODBII sensors and codes (but not all) and
half-implemented ODBII code in the ECU.  Normal ODBII scan tools are not
gauranteed to work according to the three scan tool manufacturers with whom
I enquired.



Barry

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> [mailto:bbedell@texas.net] On Behalf Of Brad Bedell
> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 1998 1:21 PM
> To: 'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Check Engine codes?
>
> Yes,  On the 91-93 cars there is a little 10 pin (I think) white
> connector next to the fuse box under the drivers side of the dash.
>
> I forget which pin it is, but you take a test lamp ground on end
> of the lamp and probe the pins.
> The light will blink your code out.
>
> I think the pin is the bottom left one.  Pin #10 comes to mind.
>
> In any case, just probe the pins until you find the correct one,
> just be careful not to probe two at once.
>
>
>
> > Brad
> >
> > Check out my home page:    http://lonestar.texas.net/~bbedell
> > E-Mail: bbedell@texas.net ICQ#  3612682
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fein, Edward [SMTP:fein@strategy.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 1998 3:17 PM
> To: 'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'
> Subject: Team3S: Check Engine codes?
>
>
> Does anyone know how to get the trouble codes out of the ECU when
> the 'Check
> Engine' light comes on? I mean, other than going to a dealer?
>
>
> Over the long weekend my car has started getting Check Engine lights. So
> far, the past three times I have filled the gas tank, the 'Check Engine'
> light has come on within 50 miles of driving. These have been the
> only times

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For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 23:58:30 -0500
From: Jeff Crabtree <wjcrabtree@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Check Engine codes?

Fein, Edward wrote:
So it seems to have something to do with the tank being full. I would

> suspect a leaky gas cap. Except I have a '94 and the fuel tank pressure
> sensor is part of OBD-II, right?
>

Ed,

    I don't have a lot to offer you on your situation except that my first thought when
you talked about how the problem happens when your gas tank is not full is that perhaps
you have water in your fuel tank and MAYBE that is setting off the check engine light
somehow.  Water is lighter than gasoline and would float on top, for the most part, and
only get drawn into the fuel lines when the gas level gets kinda low.  It's an age old
problem that I think most people overlook.

    If this does turn out to be the case, You can buy a chemical treatment at most auto
parts stores to solve the problem.

GOOD LUCK,

- --
- -Jeff Crabtree
     '91 R/T Turbo
          St. Louis, MO


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 09:26:06 +0200
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mikael_=C5kesson?=" <vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: Team3S: RE: Hesitation/Knocks (The lost mail)

This mail have been lost in cyberspace for a few days.

Original posting From: wce@bc.sympatico.ca <wce@bc.sympatico.ca>
>Hi Mikael;
>
>Can you post with the httlp// in your address ... <SNIP>

No I can't !! But if you want me to I can post with http://  :)


Sorry for that but I coulden't recist :) Usually I post with the complete address because I always cut and paste from the address line on my browser. I promise to get i right next time.

Here is is again http://www.aquamist.co.uk/

Mini gathering update !! We had a very nice gathering all two of us :)
Oscar was impressed with the difference the boost controller does and I think he will install one asap when he get back to US. He's a very nice guy and I invited him to join Team3S, he has a 95 Stealth TT.

/Mikael



For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:38:28 -0400
From: "Fein, Edward" <fein@strategy.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Check Engine codes?

No, my problem only occurs when the gas tank is _full_.

I'm thinking that it's a leaky gas cap, with one of the proto-OBD-II sensors
Barry mentioned. It makes sense that the car would check for cap tightness
after each fill-up - i.e. only when the tank is full.

   -Ed

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Crabtree

Ed,

    I don't have a lot to offer you on your situation except that my first
thought when
you talked about how the problem happens when your gas tank is not full is
that perhaps
you have water in your fuel tank and MAYBE that is setting off the check
engine light
somehow.  Water is lighter than gasoline and would float on top, for the
most part, and
only get drawn into the fuel lines when the gas level gets kinda low.  It's
an age old
problem that I think most people overlook.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 09:11:37 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Check Engine codes?

- -----Original Message-----From: Jeff Crabtree
<wjcrabtree@sprintmail.com>
|    I don't have a lot to offer you on your situation except that my
first thought when
|you talked about how the problem happens when your gas tank is not full
is that perhaps
|you have water in your fuel tank and MAYBE that is setting off the
check engine light
|somehow.  Water is lighter than gasoline and would float on top, for
the most part, and
|only get drawn into the fuel lines when the gas level gets kinda low.


No answers to the problem from me...  Some questions, though...

I always thought that gasoline was lighter than water!?
And is there a way to "fool" the tank into thinking there is a tight
seal?
Some plastic wrap over the gasoline filler tube before putting the cap
on, perhaps?

Forrest



For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:27:52 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Check Engine codes?

Gasoline IS lighter than water at approximately 70-75% the weight of water
depending upon the formulation of the fuel.  Therefore, fuel will float on
top of water.

This is part of the reason you do not want to fuel up at a gas station that
is being or has recently been replenished.  The fuel being dumped into the
in-ground tanks stirs up muck and water that has settled to the bottom.  The
pickups for the in-ground tanks are far enough away from the bottom to allow
only fuel to be pumped out under normal circumstances.  Stir it all up and
you'll often end up with water and dirt in your fuel tank.


Barry

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> [mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Bob Forrest
> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 1998 9:12 AM
> To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Check Engine codes?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----From: Jeff Crabtree
> <wjcrabtree@sprintmail.com>
> |    I don't have a lot to offer you on your situation except that my
> first thought when
> |you talked about how the problem happens when your gas tank is not full
> is that perhaps
> |you have water in your fuel tank and MAYBE that is setting off the
> check engine light
> |somehow.  Water is lighter than gasoline and would float on top, for
> the most part, and
> |only get drawn into the fuel lines when the gas level gets kinda low.
>
>
> No answers to the problem from me...  Some questions, though...
>
> I always thought that gasoline was lighter than water!?
> And is there a way to "fool" the tank into thinking there is a tight
> seal?
> Some plastic wrap over the gasoline filler tube before putting the cap
> on, perhaps?
>
> Forrest
>
>
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:28:34 -0400
From: "Fein, Edward" <fein@strategy.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Check Engine codes?

Turns out there is a way to get the codes to blink out on the '94s and '95s.
Found it in the manual just after it describes how to do it for the '91-'93
cars. In my manual it was page 13A-51. You ground the first pin of the
OBD-II type diagnostic port (that would be the pin in the corner closest to
both the firewall and driveline tunnel) and turn the key into the ON
position, and the code will blink out on the Check Engine light - the light
will give a number of long blinks equal to the tens digit followed by a
number of short blinks equal to the ones digit, then repeat.

Turns out I was getting a code 43 - EGR system malfunction. May have
something to do with the fact that I blocked off my EGR pipe. According to
the manual, that sensor only exists for California and '96+ cars... but my
'94 Federal model has it. And funny that I only set it off four times in
1300 miles.

Or at least I got a Code 43 today at lunch on a third of a tank of gas...
the three previous lights (post-fill-up) may be a different problem.

Time to reconnect my EGR system...

   -Ed
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 20:34:25 -0500
From: xwing <xwing@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Check Engine codes?

Barry E. King wrote:
> Ed has '94, '94 was quasi-ODBII--it has the ISO ODBII diagnostics port,
> ODBII ECU pinouts, some ODBII sensors/codes (not all) and
> half-implemented ODBII code in ECU.

I wonder if some '94's came with OBD I setup complete?  Henry Yam had
said he thought some '94 were OBD I but midyear they changed to OBD
II.   I wish I knew if this were true, because someday I'd sorta like to
search out an OBD I '94 VR4 with 6-speed, better brakes/stereo etc that
could take the discard parts from my '93 easily...that way I could
actually have one that RUNS...buy snowtires again and have fun with it
like the old days  :)

Jack T.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:59:30 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Check Engine codes?

My '94 definitely does not have full ODBII code even though the hardware is
more or less in place.

I rarely even get a CE light if I disconnect the O2 sensors.  The car
merrily runs thinking life is grand.

As to pulling codes, pin 1 (upper left hand corner) can be connected to
the -ve terminal of a analog voltmeter.  Connect the +ve lead to the
opposing corner connector and count the sweeps.  This info from a Dodge
technician.  I have not tried it yet.


Barry

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> [mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of xwing
> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 1998 6:34 PM
> To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Check Engine codes?
>
>
> Barry E. King wrote:
> > Ed has '94, '94 was quasi-ODBII--it has the ISO ODBII diagnostics port,
> > ODBII ECU pinouts, some ODBII sensors/codes (not all) and
> > half-implemented ODBII code in ECU.
>
> I wonder if some '94's came with OBD I setup complete?  Henry Yam had
> said he thought some '94 were OBD I but midyear they changed to OBD
> II.   I wish I knew if this were true, because someday I'd sorta like to
> search out an OBD I '94 VR4 with 6-speed, better brakes/stereo etc that
> could take the discard parts from my '93 easily...that way I could
> actually have one that RUNS...buy snowtires again and have fun with it
> like the old days  :)
>
> Jack T.
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 00:13:07 -0500
From: Jeff Crabtree <wjcrabtree@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Team3S: Probably crap can anyone confirm/deny?

I got this from a freind on AOL....and god knows what a welspring of
information alot of those folks can be...

"I don't know if it is really true, but is worth a try.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      --------------------

THIS IS FOR THE USA ONLY
I tried to pass this on to anyone I could think of.  I know for a fact
that this works so if you ever get in this situation, you have an out.
This procedure works in any state. Read it and try it, you have
nothing to lose but the points in your license.
If u get a speeding ticket or went through a red light or whatever the
case may be, and you are going to get points on your license, then
there is a method to ensure that you DO NOT get any points.
When u get your fine, send in the check to pay for it and if the fine
is say $79, then make the check out for $82 or some small amount above
the fine. The system will then have to send you back a check for the
difference, but here is the trick!
DO NOT CASH THE CHECK!!
Throw it away!  Points are not assessed to your license until
all the financial transactions are complete. If you do not cash the
check, then the transactions are not complete.
However the system has gotten its money so it is happy and will not
bother you any more.
SOURCE: Thoonen Production Administrator RACV Touring Publications."


For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 01:06:13 -0700
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Probably crap can anyone confirm/deny?

|If u get a speeding ticket or went through a red light or whatever the
|case may be, and you are going to get points on your license, then
|there is a method to ensure that you DO NOT get any points.
|When u get your fine, send in the check to pay for it and if the fine
|is say $79, then make the check out for $82 or some small amount above
|the fine. The system will then have to send you back a check for the
|difference, but here is the trick!
|DO NOT CASH THE CHECK!!
|Throw it away!  Points are not assessed to your license until
|all the financial transactions are complete. If you do not cash the
|check, then the transactions are not complete.
|However the system has gotten its money so it is happy and will not
|bother you any more.
|SOURCE: Thoonen Production Administrator RACV Touring Publications."


It's certainly logical that the system would leave the case open and not
assess the points to your record...  But it's also logical that the
system might not log the transaction until it was complete, and there
might NOT be a record of payment until that completion.  Well,
somebody's going to have to test it at ticket time.  It would be SO cool
if it's true...

Forrest
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
FORREST: Studio West
Special-Effects Photography
for Advertising and Publishing
http://www.bobforrest.com
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:35:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: JEEPers <fxc9364@megahertz.njit.edu>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Probably crap can anyone confirm/deny?

Too bad, I already got my tickets taken care of. Now my safety network to
protect against any future speeding tickets is my trusty CB radio, which
my brother conveniently has right now. : (  O well, another reason to buy
a new CB. 



Bob Forrest wrote:
>>It's certainly logical that the system would leave the case open and not
>>assess the points to your record...  But it's also logical that the
>>system might not log the transaction until it was complete, and there
>>might NOT be a record of payment until that completion.  Well,
>>somebody's going to have to test it at ticket time.  It would be SO cool
>>if it's true...
>>
>>Forrest
>>:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>>FORREST: Studio West
>>Special-Effects Photography
>>for Advertising and Publishing
>>http://www.bobforrest.com
>>:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>>
>>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>>


      Frank
                    -JEEPers-
"Kung-Fu Forrest"

MY WEB PAGE IS UP...http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Canyon/6045/

"Jeep is America's only real sports car"     Mr. Enzo Ferrari

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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 07:24:48 -0700
From: Ryan Peterson <rpeterson@rh2.com>
Subject: Team3S: 1st post

Okay, hope I didn't screw this post up.  Glad to see the new list.  We
need a simpler posting name though :)

You guys had to suggest a west coast gathering now that my car is
stripped apart again.  The way things are going, I won't be done until
2000.  Better to take the time and do it right than too quick and
shoddy.  Oh well, maybe I could come down and visit anyway.
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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:55:13 +0200
From: Mike Chapleski <mike.chapleski@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Check Engine codes?

> '94 was quasi-ODBII in that it has the ISO ODBII style diagnostics port,
> ODBII style ECU pinouts, some ODBII sensors and codes (but not all) and
> half-implemented ODBII code in the ECU.  Normal ODBII scan tools are not
> gauranteed to work according to the three scan tool manufacturers with whom
> I enquired.

Barry,
    What scan tools were you looking at.  I know Snap On has one.  I think I
saw it on Shade Tree Mechanic for $350.  Also, there is one in my Eastwood
catalog for $350 that will do "all domestic cars through '97."  Not sure if the
Stealth is considered domestic.  Although $350 is a lot of money, if the thing
works for ALL cars, it really is not much different than the $250 torque wrench
I ask for and got for Christmas last year.  What I am worried about is none of
these readers seem to have a "plug in" module for say OBD I or OBD II or OBD 50
in the future.  It sure would be great if there was a computer program out
there that just imported the codes; then you could download them to a laptop
that would break them out for specific cars.  I don't want to spend $350 for
something that works on MOST cars (which is usually all cars except the one I
am currently working on) then not good for '98's and on.

Mike C.  <--starting to get that Christmas list ready
0018
'95 Stealth RT TT

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End of Team3S Digest V1 #4
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