PS as for the vent of the bov, in vents back into the intake.. not
the
Y-pipe. But this still gives you hot air going into the intake
instead of
fresh air.
> =======================================
>
> 1. Vehicle:
1993 Stealth R/T NA
> 2. Current mileage:97, 200
> 2. Oil
weight:10W-30
> 3. Oil brand:Mobil-1
> 4. Filter brand:purolator
pure-one (but soon to be a stock mitsu)
> 5. Additives:None
> 6.
Change frequency:5000 miles
> 7. Observations:No knocking, very little
valve chatter or lifter noise, even with the miles.
=======================================
1. Vehicle: 1992 Black Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4
2. Current mileage: 60,500
miles
2. Oil weight: 10W30
3. Oil brand: Mobil 1
Synthetic
4. Filter brand: Fram (Orange)
5. Additives: Slick 50 (A
long time ago)
6. Change frequency: 3-4000 miles
7. Observations: Oil gets
pretty dark
========================================
Frank
-JEEPers-
"Kung-Fu
Forrest"
BTW, that's Frank Meyer and Not Frank "JEEPers" Chen who rich is
referring
to. Just thought I want to clear things up in case somebody
mistaken it
for me.
On Thu, 31 Dec 1998, Rich wrote:
>>Frank:
>>
>>Please be aware that the
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
mailing list is
>>NOT a venue for commercial sales
advertisements. The list is for
>>technical discussion.
Please note our rules that you agreed to when you
>>signed up.
Even private party sales, while not prohibited, are
>>discouraged on
this list.
>>
>>This is the second warning sent to this
mailing address for rules
>>infractions. We will permanently
terminate your subscription if a third
>>infraction
occurs.
>>
>>Rich LeRoy
>>Admin -
Team3S
>>
>>
>>Meyer wrote:
>>>
>>> We have only one Slightly damaged, brand new Greddy VR4 exhaust
system
>>> available for $500. This system has one small dent
in the muffler in
>>> a spot that will not be visible when
installed. Performance and
>>> durability will not be
affected. Call 301 824 3337 or email to order
>>>
Frank
>>>
www.acceleratedaccessories.com>>For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm>>
Frank
-JEEPers-
"Kung-Fu
Forrest"
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Jan 1 14:18:45 1999
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From: "Errin D. Humphrey" <
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Re: Team3S: BOV questions
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Lots of BOV stuff here:
Matthews wrote:
> 1. Is the volume of a BOV due to a restriction in the air flow, like
a
> whistle? Since the idea behind a BOV is to let the air blow off
as
> easily as possible to keep the turbos spinning, wouldn't a loud
BOV
> therefore be undesirable? Or are we talking minimal
impact?
I have never heard of a BOV's volume/loudness being ~the~
important
factor in its operation. It is more of a by-product of its
design. Design
of the valve and spring itself seems more
important. Furthermore,
according to HKS, most BOV's can be designed to
efficiently vent
pressure at either high boost pressures or low boost
pressures, but not
both. Their Sequential design allows their BOV's to
do both, supposedly.
Lastly, I would surmise that in order to "let the air blow off as
easily as
possible to keep ..." a well-designed BOV should vent the air
as ~quickly~
as possible and it will thus mostly likely be louder. This
is only speculation
on my part.
> 2. Also, has anyone successfully eliminated the HOOT sound
commonly
> experienced by those with FIPKs by replacing the stock BOV with
an
> aftermarket unit?
I'm GLAD that you asked this! I recently took Hau's Blitz BOV off
of
my car in order to give it to Chris. Several weeks went by
without
boosting my car because my clutch has been fried. Now with
my
clutch replaced, I immediately noticed this "hooting" noise, and
I have
been bothered as to what it might be. The sound is
intermittent--as
you say only at lower boost levels--and it makes the noise
whether or
not I have the AVC-R valve installed (I just reinstalled it the
other day).
I'm pretty sure that the sound wasn't around when I had the Blitz
on my
car, but I can't be 100% sure. Why? Wellll... because for
most of the
time that I had it, I was running either downpipe-only (VERY
rumbly)
and later dual straightpipes only w/ no cats/mufflers
(mind-NUMBingly
loud above 2500 rpm; like someone is running a chainsaw in
your car),
so needless to say, I couldn't quite hear/enjoy all the fun sounds
my car
was making. Getting dual mufflers and dual glasspacks gave me
my
hearing back, but by that time (3 months ago) my clutch was wasted
from
too much racing.
> 3. If replacing the BOV will cure the HOOT sound, has anyone
been
> successful with an aftermarket BOV that vents back to the intake,
like
> the stock BOV does (and which is apparently the cause of
the
> resonance)? I think some BOVs vent to both the intake and to
the
> atmosphere depending on pressure, which sounds like a good
idea. I
> think the A'PEXi BOV is one such unit but is difficult to
mount on an
> S3.
The stock BOV is not really a BOV, per se. It is better to call
it
a "bypass valve" because that is a more accurate description of
what
it does. The Blitz BOV that I had on my car utilizes the stock
bypass
valve by being connected to it in sequence. Like the stocker, it
also
reads post-TB pressure (right before the surge tank). When I
upgrade
my BOV, I will not go with the Blitz simply because I do not want
to
utilize the stock bypass valve, even if there are some benefits
to
keeping some of the air in the system. Blitz does seem the BOV
of
choice for Supras, however. I will probably go with the HKS.
BTW, I have heard ~many~ bad things about the Apexi BOV from
owner
experiences on the Supra Mailing List. Most end up ditching
it because
once they install it, their boost levels drop dramatically.
> P.S.- GTAlley's fix for the HOOT sound is to vent the stock BOV to
the
> atmosphere and plug the connection to the intake.
As others have noted, this sounds like a bad idea. The stocker
was
not designed to work as a BOV. It was designed to be a
bypass
valve. I don't think it reads the pre/post-TB pressure
differential in
the same way that an aftermarket BOV does, but I could be
wrong.
***Another thing. On the way back from a trip, my friend riding in
the
passenger did indeed place the HOOTing sound as coming directly
from
his side of the engine bay. I had been wondering if the turbos
were
involved in the sound (as Mike M. suggests in his experience that
replacing
turbos ridded the sound), but my friend noted that it was
definitely from the
air intake/y-pipe area straight in front of him. Well,
this makes sense
doesn't it? Think of the sound you get blowing across
that top of a
bottle. So either the sound is coming from the hole in
the Y-pipe
(which is subsequently eliminated by using a metal pipe
for an aftermarket
BOV?) or the sound is coming from the reentry into
the uncompressed intake
side (which is subsequently eliminated by
not using the stocker? but this
doesn't apply with the Blitz? but I really
don't know 100% that I wasn't
hearing the sound before ... hmmmm).
Roger is right, the stocker leaks. I think this explains the
whistling noise
I was hearing yesterday while boosting up to 1.2 bar on the
freeway.
Of course, it could be something else. Incidentally, I tried
to get a clean,
black 80's Porsche NA Carrera 2 to race me on I-5 between
Tacoma
and Seattle. I got up next to him and took off. He
disappeared fast, seem-
ingly not wanting to race me. But then he was
coming up fast! I mean
Turbo fast! Well it turned out to be a
modded black Eclipse GSX that
I've seen around. I didn't want to race
another Mits brother, and he was
going much faster than I wanted to go on
cop-happy New Years Eve,
so I waved and let off. He slowed and
waved. Friendly guy. Prolly 16G.
Jim, please let us know if installing Roger's HKS gets rid of the
HOOT.
If the problem doesn't go away, then I am happy to blame it on Y2K!
:)
Chris Winkley wrote:
>Second, the Blitz BOV that Hau sold me was installed on Errin's
VR4
>with a T that connected it back to the y-pipe and had the stock
BOV
>still installed. It also seemed to work fine, although Errin
said he had to
>back the adjusting screw almost all the way out to get it
to purge (because
>the pressure wasn't being forced through the
BOV?).
Actually, the screw was originally way in because Hau had it set up
at
the time for his 15G's. After a while I became bothered by the fact
that
it wasn't making any noise, so Barry enlightened me to back that
screw
out. I got carried away and backed it WAY out without being
concerned
about finding a good midway point. It was ~plenty~ loud and I
was
happy, so I left it that way. I simply suspect that with the screw
way in,
you are using more of the stock bypass-valve, and with it way out
you
are using more of the Blitz BOV, since they are in sequence.
Brian Danley wrote:
>PS as for the vent of the bov, in vents back into the intake..
not the
>Y-pipe. But this still gives you hot air going into the
intake instead of
>fresh air.
True about the stock bypass valve. But I personally wouldn't
classify
the air as "hot." The air is pressurized: this
is good. The air is already
accounted for by the MAF: this is good (not
so good when some of it
is blown into the atmosphere). Lastly and most
importantly: the air is
intercooled: this is very good. The EGR,
on the other hand, is a
different story; "hot air" does apply, but
I digress.
Happy New Year everyone!
--Errin Humphrey
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Jan 1 14:21:44 1999
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Re: Team3S: Blitz going out of business???
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"R.G." wrote:
> I just got a message from a Supra friend who forwarded me this message
:
>
> -----------------------------
> Subject: Re: [mkiv]
Blitz going out of business??? [snip]
I kept up with this thread on the Supra list. Some guys did
some
more research and found out that this rumor is ~not~ true.
Of
course, anything is possible, but recent evidence seems to be to
the
contrary. BTW, rumors like this have arisen before with
RS Akimoto, for
example.
--Errin Humphrey
> that connected it back to the y-pipe and had the stock BOV still
installed.
> It also seemed to work fine, although Errin said he had to
back the
> adjusting screw almost all the way out to get it to purge
(because the
> pressure wasn't being forced through the BOV?). I talked to
my favorite
> mechanic (John Boline, of Gateway Automotive) who said he
can't imagine why
> you would route the gases back into the y-pipe as this
will still slow the
> turbos. Perhaps a part of the Blitz design?
Brian is right, it does NOT connect to the y-pipe but right behind the
MAS,
therefore before the turbos.
That a car can be aproved by the government the engine must represent a
closed
system. Therefore, crankcase ventilation ends in the intake, pressure
will be
released to the intake and even the stock boost solenoid releases
some boost
back to the intake.
> My question...a couple weeks ago, I described what I called "fuel
cut" as
> the result of running 1.1bar with a full 3"
exhaust.
The fuel cut (if it is) is not related to the BOV. It could be that the BOV
is
somewhat working bad. As an example, if boost increases to the max fast
and
comes back due to the controller limiting the difference can cause
the BOV to
open and therefore power will be lost quickly. As boost drops the
BOV closes and
boost is comming back quickly again. Feels like fuel cut
!
Check out the EGT and injector duty cycle when you're running into fuel
cut. I'm
sure the problem lies elsewhere than at the BOV if you're having
real fuel cut.
Hope this helps,
Roger
-----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo
(Animale Rosso)
K&N FIPK,Magnecor wires,Blitz DSBC/gauge/Dual Timer,Apexi
AFC,SBOV,
Borla,OZ Mito2,Yoko AVS-Z1,braided brake lines,Bremsa brakes,Pagid
RS-R pads
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Jan 1 14:35:42 1999
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> After all this I took her for a test drive and was very disappointed.
My car
> actually felt slower. It accelerated smoother, but wouldn't
launch right.
> Today I figured out what was wrong. My grandparents shop
is north of Denver,
> at about 6000 ft altitude. My parents house is about
1600 ft. She's running
> good today.
As you disconnected your battery the ECU had to relearn. This phase can
cause
your car running better than ever or it can be close to stalling
!
I'm living at about 1500 ft and drove many times up to 6300 ft in the alps.
I
then was able to feel some small loss but not to mention a lot :)
Cheers, Roger
-----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo
(Animale Rosso)
Brian Danley wrote: [snips]
> Well when you run more boost you need
more fuel.. When You add a Fuel
> Pressure Reg. you can push a little bit
more through the stock injectors.
^ This is true ^
> when you go to bigger injectors/fuel pump you want
> extra
pressure to help supply correct amount fuel and at right
> pressure. The
stock pressure is 45 psi. Some
> run 70-75 with bigger injectors/big
turbos. I think this should
> be in staged upgrades before or during
fuel pump/injector upgrades.
^ This is not really so IMO ^
The stock TT fuelpressure no boost is about 43psi. The
STOCK
fuelpressure regulator is boost compensated and nicely adds
extra
fuelpressure for each pound of boost. The computer is designed to
work
with this rate of increase to provide proper mix. If you are
putting in
bigger turbos you will need more fuel volume to support more
horsepower
produced. How you GET THAT VOLUME can be by either
1)larger injectors at SAME FUELPRESSURE, with computer signal
mods
(VPC/GCC, APEXi AFC, TRE MASC) to adjust to the larger
injectors...can
work transparently (like stock) with ability to go
faster.
2)same small injectors with more fuelpressure--but this will run rich
at
idle/cruise, sacrifice all for that topend fuel need
3) combinations of
injectors, screwing with fuel pressure, computer
progs, etc
The higher the fuelpressure, the LESS a pump flows at that pressure.
A
pump flows more volume as pressures are lower. So, you may run
into
fuel volume problems, which will be reflected by inability to
MAINTAIN
the extra-high pressure you've dialed in at max power. This is
one
reason to try NOT to jack up fuelpressure. Another is that after
about
90 psi injectors can have problems with opening and closing properly.
Another is it heats up the fuel and pump more, and takes more power
to
run the pump.
I think the stock FPR works fine, and do not see a reason (given
the
aftermarket systems available) to change the stock FPR...UNLESS one
has
specific fine-tuning or fuel delivery problems NOT
addressable
otherwise. The aftermarket FPR's frequently add WAY MORE
pressure per
pound of boost than the stock FPR, which can lead you to tune
well on
bottomend but pig rich as boost goes up. Of course VPC/GCC/AFC
etc can
compensate for this screwing around, but...why spend the money for
an
FPR--you just end up jumping around trying to cater to
its
idiosyncrasies (relative to stocker).
IF you can say "I am certainly too lean AND have no other good way
to
address that problem" then by all means, get an aftermarket FPR and
turn
up the pressure some.
If you can't say "I am certainly
too lean AND have no other good way to
address that problem" then spend
your money on something worthwhile,
IMO. BTW, I have an aftermarket
FPR, which I put on my car when I was
maxxing out my 550 injectors and
running over 1800 degree EGT's. Of
course, the EGT were up due to
timing retard not necessarily leanout but
I wasn't sure of that then...since,
I turned the aftermarket one back
down to stock pressure, and only didn't
remove it because it had my FP
guage mounted to it and I was lazy :)
> OK, so it appears i don't need to replace a stock BOV
as part of the
> staged upgrade process, but what about a FPR? Gary
Zimmerman had one as
> part of the usual mods, and wondered why he did
it... Any ideas?
This aftermarket FPR deal is really craaazy. It is NOT needed as
part
of "usual mods" FOR OUR CARS, and we don't need one to get
into the
10's. Beyond THAT, who knows...
As far as the stock BOV,
that is fine if 16psi is all you want. They
start leaking boost between
15 and 18psi...pffffffft! Changing BOV is
something I WOULD consider a
step in the order of sensible mods.
Jack Tertadian
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Jan 1 20:46:34 1999
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Hi Team;
A quick pair of questions on plugs.
The manual quotes the NGK number for TT's as PER6J-11. Does anyone
know
if this is the copper or the platinum tip?
I pulled my plugs and found the number PFR6J....is the F desigination
a
hotter plug? And, it does not have any-11 behing it as noted in
the
manual . Any ideas why?
I know Bob has indicated in the past that the copper tips are great
and
recommends them over the pricey platinums. Can you go into this
one
again for me/us Bob...as a refresher?
Best
Darc
Errin D. Humphrey wrote:
> Lots of BOV stuff here:
<snip>
> > 2. Also, has anyone successfully eliminated the HOOT sound
commonly
> > experienced by those with FIPKs by replacing the stock BOV
with an
> > aftermarket unit?
I don't have this sound with mine (yet), Errin-Jim...but you are both
driving second
generation. Is it possible there is some small mod done to the
94 and up models that
could account for this...or have others with the first
generation experienced the same,
and I am just missing out?
<snip>
> The stock BOV is not really a BOV, per se. It is better to call
it
> a "bypass valve" because that is a more accurate
description of what
> it does. The Blitz BOV that I had on my car
utilizes the stock bypass
> valve by being connected to it in
sequence. Like the stocker, it also
> reads post-TB pressure (right
before the surge tank). When I upgrade
> my BOV, I will not go with
the Blitz simply because I do not want to
> utilize the stock bypass
valve, even if there are some benefits to
> keeping some of the air in the
system. Blitz does seem the BOV of
> choice for Supras,
however. I will probably go with the HKS.
This is interesting Errin...you noted that the Blitz you used was connected
in sequence
with the stock valve so that a sequential arrangement is evident,
and that it can be
adjusted to vent predominantly with one or the other (or
both) as the user so chooses.
So, I guess the question is, why then HKS (also
sequential) over the Blitz? Have you
used the HKS also?? If so, and readily
superior, then this is the kind of comparative
analysis that saves us all a
bunch of time and money.
Best
Darc
The platinum plugs last longer. Modern cars which go up to 100K
miles
between tuneups all use them because of their longevity. Also,
note that on
most cars now, the Chiltons manual allocates dealers one to two
hours to
change the plugs. Manufacturers HAD to extend the
life of the plugs or
face a lot of customers pissed off because of the labor
involved in a
"tuneup". Believe me, it's not that the
manufacturers are trying to save us
money in the cost of plugs.
So, if you don't mind changing plugs, say, every 10K miles, $2 copper
plugs
are just as good. The ones I normally use are NGK BCPR6ES,
although I'm
trying out another type at the moment but don't have the numbers
handy.
-Bob
>
> I know Bob has indicated in the past that the copper tips are
great and
> recommends them over the pricey platinums. Can you go into
this one
> again for me/us Bob...as a refresher?
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Jan 2 05:01:41 1999
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Subject: Team3S: Ticking Noise in Dash
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Hello All,
I am getting a ticking noise from
my dash that sounds
like a solenoid rapidly opening and closing. The
noise
is independent of engine speed and there is no change
in
performance. I remember a thread about this 2-3 years
ago on the Starnet or
Dragnet list but I can't find it anywhere.
Any help would be
greatly
appreciated.
Wayne 3SI
#87
'91 Stealth TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Jan 2 06:11:22 1999
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Subject:
Team3S: cool air intake idea
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Anyone care to comment on this? Possible? Worthwhile?
Crazy?
Thanx... -Jim
*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 70/84% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Bosch Winged
Wipers
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, TS
(so far): 166mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Jan 2 07:22:03 1999
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Subject:
RE: Team3S: cool air intake idea
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 09:17:10
-0500
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I found the same thing! I moved form Florida where it is always
around
85-90 degrees with 100% humidity. Here in Dallas my car runs a
lot better!
The air is more dense/ less humid and colder. It's a
great idea. Bob,
Jack and others have all had this in the back of
there heads and are just
waiting for a good solution (without having to hack
the hood apart).
Cooler air is a big deal... I'm going to Home Depot
today...maybe I'll
find something that will work:)
Another thing to look at is if the engine bay is so
tight/sealed you'll
have to have a exit as well as a entrance. forcing air
in will greatly
help, but if we could find a way to get it in as well as
back out the flow
of cool air would be greater and would dissipate more heat
from other
components. Kind of like the way mustangs have the raised
hood toward the
windshield. With a good exit this would work
even better. Is it Hau that
has the bonnets with the rear exit?
Who ever does, do you have any #'s on
temp reduction?
Anyone care to comment on this? Possible? Worthwhile?
Crazy?
Thanx... -Jim
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Jan 2 07:34:51 1999
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Re: Team3S: Ticking Noise in Dash
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TTurboAWD@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hello
All,
> I am getting a ticking noise from my dash that
sounds
> like a solenoid rapidly opening and closing. The noise
> is
independent of engine speed and there is no change
> in performance. I
remember a thread about this 2-3 years
> ago on the Starnet or Dragnet
list but I can't find it anywhere.
> Any help would be
greatly
appreciated.
>
Wayne 3SI
#87
>
'91 Stealth TT
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
I think the post you're thinking of is
below. I have also started
hearing the noise again when it got cold
here.
> Subject: Re: Car starting in
cold!!
> Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 23:08:37 -0600 (CST)
>
Resent-From: stealth@starnet.net
>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 21:08:30 -0800
(PST)
> From: wagner@sprynet.com
>
Reply-To: stealth@starnet.net
>
To: stealth@starnet.net
>
>
> It is on the firewall. It's the purge solenoid. Enjoy. Not
worth fixing, it's
> just noisy in the cold. Mine's done this since I got
the car. There are also
> some other items stashed on the firewall that
can get noisy too. If it is the
> purge solenoid, when it gets REALLY
cold out, you'll notice it will be on at a
> stop and end while you're
idling.
>
>
Bill Wagner
*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si)
Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 70/84% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Bosch Winged
Wipers
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, TS
(so far): 166mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9
mph
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Jan 2 09:07:54 1999
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Ticking Noise in Dash
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Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
<<
I think the post you're
thinking of is below. I have also started
hearing the noise again
when it got cold here.
>>
******Thanks, I'm glad to hear it
won't cause
problems.
Thanks for the
info,
Wayne
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
This is a multi-part message in MIME
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Jim,
I think that the fact that cooler air
can't get in the engine compartment in
a stock configuration is the number
one reason (other than weight) that we
don't see more 3SI cars breaking below
the tens. It's not just a cooler air
problem as much as that, no air
whatsoever seems to get into what is really
"dead air space" in the
engine compartment area without any circulation at
all. This is undoubtedly
part of Mitsubishi's "warranty conservatism" (along
with the BOV
setup) or a sacrifice of functionality versus aesthetics (or
more likely,
both). There's even air gasket material along the top of the
firewall that
minimizes the air escaping from this area!
Both my VR-4 and SOHC have significantly
more power during the few cool
snaps we have here in Florida. The difference
is very dramatic here in north
Florida, because one day the temperature can
be 50 degrees with 60% humidity
and the next day 80's with 90% humidity. Even
gas mileage seems to be
affected. After all, how can one expect a "fire
breathing twin turbo" to not
breathe cooler air to mix into the hot,
turbocharged intake without a
detrimental affect on
performance?
I think that time spent in this regard is
very well spent and that you are
on to something big in the advancement of
our cars! Good website by the way!
Things that make you go 'hhhhmmmmm . .
.
"If the #2 pencil is the world's most popular, then why is it
still #2?"
-----Original
Message-----
Anyone care to comment on this?
Possible? Worthwhile? Crazy?
Thanx...
-Jim
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------=_NextPart_000_0002_01BE3642.3A4FC3C0--
Great reply Jack ! Very good information
in there.
I like to double that a good aftermarket
BOV is in the upgrade way.
//Roger
-----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
K&N FIPK,Magnecor
wires,Blitz DSBC/gauge/Dual Timer,Apexi AFC,SBOV,ATR DP/cat,
Borla,OZ
Mito2,Yoko AVS-Z1,braided brake lines,Bremsa brakes,Pagid RS-R pads
Ready:
GT-Alley 368S Turbos,front mount IC/ stainless steel piping,G-Force ECU
(3
EPROMS),fuel pump,VPC,GCC,720 Injectors,Blitz Filter/GT-Alley VPC
adapter,
Maybe: f.aluminum pistons (if rebuild needed)
Visit my homepage
under: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/9589/
I also run the HKS BOV but I must say it's
somewhat hard to adjust. Well, it's
just a bolt but there is a thin line
between opening too early or too less.
An example: Driving on the Autobahn at
around 140km/h with cruise control set
never closes the throttle unless the
car runs downhill. The electronic controls
the throttle much smoother than my
foot (hehe) and therefore opens the throttle
a little and also close it a
little (increases and decreases boost). I now felt
some hesitation when boost
is going lower after some increase. I then played
with the screw and I felt a
change but it is still not good. At this moment I
can't say if turning the
screw in or out helps.
As far as I remember this could be the
cause someone created the parallel (yes,
it is not sequential !) setup of the
stock and aftermarket BOV as driveability
seems to be better. The stock valve
works good at low pressures and the BOV on
upper-stock level and high boosts.
Makes sense to me.
This parallelsetup is not possible with
the HKS SBOV as it uses an ellbow that
routes the BOV infront of the MAS.
This makes the stock valve unusable.
Cheers, Roger
-----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Jan 2 16:27:13 1999
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Yes, same at mine in cold Swiss. I think
it is a good idea to isolate the
solenoid holder plate from the firewall with
rubber parts or so. I thought
someone did this before.
-----------------------
Roger Gerl,
Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo (Animale Rosso)
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Jan 2 18:16:36 1999
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From:
Brian Danley <bcdmad@concentric.net>
To:
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Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 20:11:40 -0500
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Any word on DSM IRC ? Did they
change servers?
Brian AKA Gammara
#0007 93
vr-4
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Jan 2 18:53:04 1999
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Brian Danley wrote:
> Any word on DSM IRC ? Did they change
servers?
> Brian AKA Gammara
Nope, they are still there. The vr-4 site has lost its bot so have
to
create the room or something; doesn't appear when listed last few
times
but it's there.
Jack T.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
At 08:11 PM 1/2/99 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Any word on DSM IRC
? Did they change servers?
>
>
>Brian AKA
Gammara
>#0007 93 vr-4
>
Yup, they moved over to a new one.
Depending on what link you used
to connect to it, it might not work for you
now.
Use irc server 209.219.245.12 Port 6667
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Jan 2 19:34:35 1999
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Team3S: Engine builder feedback needed
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Any good/bad news about either DPR or ELP regarding reliability &
experience
building motors for any of us on the list?
Arty 91 VR-4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Jan 3 00:54:38 1999
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From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
To: <
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Engine builder feedback needed
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 01:56:06
-0700
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I have heard horrendous things about ELP's customer (dis)service
reminiscent
of...oh nevermind.
DPR definitely knows what they are doing. They appear to be rather
sales
oriented, but technically they have a great reputation. I walked
away from
them solely based on cost. If only the absolute maximum of
extremes will
do, DPR may be a good choice.
Be prepared to mortgage some property. Their quote to do the heads on
my
VR4 was more than what I am paying to have my engine rebuilt
locally.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Any good/bad news about
either DPR or ELP regarding reliability &
> experience
>
building motors for any of us on the list?
> Arty 91 VR-4
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Jan 3 00:58:12 1999
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From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
To: <
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: cool air intake idea
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 01:59:32
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If cool air intake isolated from the engine compartment is what you
are
after, check out Brad Bedell's setup. So far I have seen nothing
better for
our cars.
The web site wasn't up so I won't post it. Maybe Brad can shed some
more
light on his installaton.
Regards,
Barry
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"Barry E. King" wrote:
>
> If cool air intake
isolated from the engine compartment is what you are
> after, check out
Brad Bedell's setup. So far I have seen nothing better for
> our
cars.
>
> The web site wasn't up so I won't post it. Maybe
Brad can shed some more
> light on his installaton.
>
>
Regards,
>
> Barry
>
Thanx for the tip! Here is the only picture I could find of his
custom
intake:
Not sure what's going on behind the scenes. I'm afraid that since
he
has an aftermarket intercooler in front of his radiator, it is
likely
that he is using the stock passenger side intercooler location for
his
intake hose. But I'd love to hear more about this system and what
kind
of performance gains were realized, if any. Brad, are you out
there?
*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 70/84% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Bosch Winged
Wipers
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, TS
(so far): 166mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
Anyone care to comment on this? Possible? Worthwhile?
Crazy?
Thanx...
-Jim
================================
Jim...
I really like the front mounted (below the bumper) air scoop, but
wouldn't
that necessitate removing the Active Aero assembly? The headlight
trick is a
neat one, but seems like a track only approach. I like my
headlights, they
help quite a bit in the dark. :-)
Someone asked about the Bozz Speed strut tower scoops, I know Arty has a
set
(but they only work on first gen, unless you're willing to cut your
hood).
Keep in mind, they look and work great, but are for exhaust purposes,
not
intake. Of course, if you have a way to exhaust the air, it should draw
more
in from under the car. Again, the scoop under the bumper would be
great.
It also appears there's a way to force air in through the stock
intercooler
vents in the bumper (if the stock units have been replaced with
a
aftermarket intercooler), but that still leaves the exhaust issue.
Brad
Bedell's approach looks neat, but it's not clear where the sheet metal
box
is getting it's air. From a vent in the wheel well? That would
certainly
pull dirt and water off the tires.
One trick Rich LeRoy has used (hope you don't mind me posting this Rich),
is
to remove the rubber seal at the windshield end of the hood. While this
is
only 1/4" gap or so, it lets some of that hot air out of the
engine
compartment. Seems like this, along with some ingenious intake tricks,
is a
good solution.
Finally, has anyone had experience with the carbon fiber hood that Brian
(GT
Alley) used to sell? It had a scoop on it. I was wondering if it had
a
drain, or filter, that keeps the water and dirt from flowing in along
with
the air. Another neat feature of this approach is that the carbon fiber
hood
was supposed to weigh seven pounds (versus the stock seventy). That's a
very
impressive weight reduction.
Please keep us updated on your experiments.
Looking forward...Chris
"Friends don't let friends ride with me"
Chris Winkley wrote:
> anyone had experience with carbon fiber hood
Brian (GT
> Alley) used to sell? It had a scoop on it. wondering if had
> drain/filter keeps water/dirt from flowing in
> carbon fiber hood
supposed to weigh seven pounds (versus the stock seventy).
I have hood. Mine is stock/no scoops. It weighs about 17-18
lbs
actual, while stock is 48 pounds (both weighed by me on same scale)
so
lose about 30 lbs only. Fit not great, about 3mm offset to
passenger
side at front edge. Has stock hoodlatch that I won't trust, I
am
putting hoodpins on also. Looks ok not perfect.
Jack T.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
Weird. The "E" refers to a 19mm seat while the
"F" refers to a tapered
seat. The two do not mix very well
and are generally not intercgangeable.
The correct stock plug is the
PFR6J-11.
Here's the run-down:
P - projected tip
F - tapered seat
R - resistor
6 - heat range,
larger numbers being colder
J - platinum
-11 refers to the factory preset
gap of 0.044".
The P and F are mandatory and dictated by the head design. Resistor
plugs
are pretty much required in a street vehicle as they affect RFI which
can be
heard in the stereo and may affect ECU operation. Contrary to
what some
say, a resistor plug in a modern car will not affect adversely
ignition
performance.
Each change in heat range is capable of removing roughly 75-100 degrees C
of
heat. The stock heat range is perfect except for highly modified
engines or
extended hard running. A colder plug would be better in
those extreme
cases, but likely not more than one range (eg, PFR7J).
Going hotter is
definitely not recommended.
Platinum plugs definitely last longer than copper. Despite the lore
that
copper makes more heat, the fact is that testing shows no difference
in
spark power output between copper and platinum up to 6000 rpm or so.
Above
6000 rpm platinum is superior to copper for spark energy output.
The only
reason to use copper is economic - they are typically much
cheaper. They
will have to be gapped much more frequently than platinum
plugs since they
degrade much more rapidly. I therefore always
recommend platinum plugs
unless the plug is going into a lawnmower.
You can pick up any pre-gapped plug and regap it -- you should do
that
anyway since the factory pre-set can be off by quit a bit by the time
it
gets to the consumer. Ideally get a pre-gapped plug as close as
possible to
your desired gap since the electrode can be weakened by excessive
movement,
but if done correctly this is typically not a concern.
Hope that helps.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Hi
Team;
>
> A quick pair of questions on plugs.
>
> The
manual quotes the NGK number for TT's as PER6J-11. Does anyone know
> if
this is the copper or the platinum tip?
>
> I pulled my plugs and
found the number PFR6J....is the F desigination a
> hotter plug? And, it
does not have any-11 behing it as noted in the
> manual . Any ideas
why?
>
> I know Bob has indicated in the past that the copper tips
are great and
> recommends them over the pricey platinums. Can you go into
this one
> again for me/us Bob...as a refresher?
>
>
Best
>
> Darc
Chris Winkley wrote:
>
> I really like the front mounted
(below the bumper) air scoop, but wouldn't
> that necessitate removing the
Active Aero assembly?
Not sure, Stealths have no active aero, and I've never inspected
the
system on a VR-4 closely enough to know the answer to this.
> The headlight trick is a
> neat one, but seems like a track
only approach. I like my headlights, they
> help quite a bit in the
dark. :-)
Agreed! On my car, removal of the passenger side headlight module
would
leave two nice round holes directly in line with the air intake
but
there is still a metal plate that would need to be circumvented.
Still,
with a little preparation, this might be a very easy mod to make at
the
track in just a few minutes.
Another point should be made about these scoops regarding ram
air
effects. Ram air sounds like a really simple idea, but apparently
it's
not. A lot of design work goes in to a good ram air system, since
most
end up working well only at certain speeds and a poor ram air system
can
actually make overall performance WORSE. If the engine is not
inhaling
as much air as is being shoved into the scoop, a high pressure area
will
form at the mouth and will push air around the opening rather
than
letting it flow inside. This is discussed in the Honda book I
mention
on my web page. One must determine the maximum air volume
demands of an
engine and try to design a system accordingly. They
mention some
strategies that include a kind of blow-off valve that allows air
to blow
past and escape the system to avoid an area of high pressure in front
of
the scoop. Just think, we could have TWO BOVs on our cars!! It
would
make the whoosh sound at high speeds AND during shifting!
:-) That's
what I need, an expensive GT that sounds like it has a
tractor trailor
air brake system on the fritz!
> It also appears there's a way to force air in through the stock
intercooler
> vents in the bumper (if the stock units have been replaced
with a
> aftermarket intercooler), but that still leaves the exhaust
issue.
True, but in Brad's system, the air that enters through the scoop
exits
through the _engine_ exhaust. The idea here is not to just let
more
cool air enter the engine compartment and then escape somewhere else
in
the engine compartment, though that would certaily help reduce
under
hood temperatures (at the likely drawback of increased drag).
As I wrote on my web page, only testing will tell if it is better
to
completely isolate the intake system from the engine compartment or
to
just provide a good flow of cool outside air. The latter I would
expect
to alleviate the ram air problem I mentioned above.
> One trick Rich LeRoy has used (hope you don't mind me posting this
Rich), is
> to remove the rubber seal at the windshield end of the hood.
While this is
> only 1/4" gap or so, it lets some of that hot air out
of the engine
> compartment. Seems like this, along with some ingenious
intake tricks, is a
> good solution.
Some cars actually face the scoop BACKWARDS, drawing air from the
high
pressure area at the base of the windshield. So what happens when
the
back of the hood is raised, exactly? And why did Mitsu seal up
the
engine compartment so tightly, anyway?
> Brad Bedell's approach looks neat, but it's not clear where the
sheet metal box
> is getting it's air. From a vent in the wheel well? That
would certainly
> pull dirt and water off the tires.
Exactly. I'm hoping he will jump in here and elaborate. I bet
he's
pulling it in from the stock intercooler location. Not sure
about
pulling air in from the wheel well - I seem to recall that this is
where
Porsche 911 intercoolers are mounted (wouldn't want that caked
with
mud!), and there may be some way to isolate an air intake hose from
the
elements while keeping it in an area of high air pressure.
*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 70/84% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Bosch Winged
Wipers
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, TS
(so far): 166mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
Okay, some final questions. Sorry for all of the included text, I
want
to make sure I have my facts straight.
"Errin D. Humphrey" wrote:
>
> Jim Matthews
wrote:
> >
> > 2. Also, has anyone successfully eliminated the
HOOT sound commonly
> > experienced by those with FIPKs by replacing
the stock BOV with an
> > aftermarket unit?
>
> I'm GLAD
that you asked this! I recently took Hau's Blitz BOV off of
> my car
in order to give it to Chris. Several weeks went by without
>
boosting my car because my clutch has been fried. Now with my
>
clutch replaced, I immediately noticed this "hooting" noise, and I
have
> been bothered as to what it might be. The sound is
intermittent--as
> you say only at lower boost levels--and it makes the
noise whether or
> not I have the AVC-R valve installed (I just
reinstalled it the other day).
> I'm pretty sure that the sound wasn't
around when I had the Blitz on my
> car, but I can't be 100% sure.
[ ... ]
> The stock BOV is not really a BOV, per se. It is better to call
it
> a "bypass valve" because that is a more accurate
description of what
> it does. The Blitz BOV that I had on my car
utilizes the stock bypass
> valve by being connected to it in
sequence. Like the stocker, it also
> reads post-TB pressure (right
before the surge tank). When I upgrade
> my BOV, I will not go with
the Blitz simply because I do not want to
> utilize the stock bypass
valve, even if there are some benefits to
> keeping some of the air in the
system. Blitz does seem the BOV of
> choice for Supras,
however. I will probably go with the HKS.
[ ... ]
> > P.S.- GTAlley's fix for the HOOT sound is to vent the stock BOV
to the
> > atmosphere and plug the connection to the intake.
>
> As others have noted, this sounds like a bad idea. The stocker
was
> not designed to work as a BOV. It was designed to be a
bypass
> valve. I don't think it reads the pre/post-TB pressure
differential in
> the same way that an aftermarket BOV does, but I could
be wrong.
[ ... ]
> Roger is right, the stocker leaks.
Okay, it sounds as if the Blitz eliminated the sound in your
case. But
I'm a little confused. Since the annoying resonance has
been attributed
to the stock BOV, how does a system that utilizes the stock
BOV
eliminate it? Is the stock BOV connected to the Blitz instead of to
the
intake? But if venting the stock BOV to the atmosphere and plugging
the
intake makes the engine stall and run poorly, then how would this be
any
different? Also, if the stock BOV leaks, then isn't this a weak
link in
the chain? Please advise! Thanx.
*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 70/84% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Bosch Winged
Wipers
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, TS
(so far): 166mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
> Okay, it sounds as if the Blitz eliminated the sound in your
case. But
> I'm a little confused. Since the annoying
resonance has been attributed
> to the stock BOV, how does a system that
utilizes the stock BOV
> eliminate it?
Well, it is related to the FIPK and maybe other intake filters of course
!
Replacing the bypass valve with another BOV does usually remove the bypass
to
the intake and therefore elimiates any pressure back to the filter system
that
cause the HOOOT sound.
> Is the stock BOV connected to the Blitz instead of to the
intake?
The last time I saw this was a normal connection of the bypass valve and an
y in
the hose that comes down the y-pipe. At this y the Blitz was connected
to.
> But if venting the stock BOV to the atmosphere and plugging
the
> intake makes the engine stall and run poorly, then how would this be
any
> different?
The bypass valve opens as pressure increases in the intake manifold. If
boost is
cranked up the valve still opens very early, too early for us and
therefore
creating a leak in the y-pipe (to the ambient). This causes the
engine to stall
or running poorly for a second as the valve quickly closes
when boost goes away
and therefore closes the leak then. Once my mechanic did
not close the BOV tube
clamp the thing popped of at 1 bars and caused the
engine to die quickly !
> Also, if the stock BOV leaks, then isn't this a weak link
in
> the chain? Please advise! Thanx.
No, the hole is small enough not to cause a big leak. The only explanation
I
have is that the Blitz was probably set up to open earlier together with
the
stock valve, just enough that the sound went away. But then I don't know
for
what the stock valve is used for ??
Later, Roger
-----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo
(Animale Rosso)
This weekend I made a stress test of the components to be sure the
memory
storage is able to hold and rewrite the information after many, many
runs (two
or three 30 second non-volatile storage space, 8 channels, 8
samples per
second).
Here my questions:
How many 30 sec runs (test, track street, check, or whatever) would you
make per
week, month or year ?
I have to know due to the specs of the serial memory devices I have to
get.
Also, for O2 readings, would you prefer the screen showing figures :
920mV O2 front
890mV 02 rear
or one graphic (only one O2 sensor at a time) :
920mV O2 Sensor
------¦--*---
The values can be updated three or four times per second, enough for our
eyes
but not as quick as on a Blitz controller (microcontroller is a little
slow)
The runs are stored in the memory and can then be read later via the
built-in
RS232 connector. They will be overwritten at the next runs.
Thanks for your help,
Roger
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Jan 3 15:12:24 1999
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From: "Bob Fontana" <
bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
To:
"3000/Stealth Technical List" <
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Team3S: EVC-VPC-GCC installation
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 18:12:02
-0500
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I sold my radio and CD changer in order to make some room for my HKS
stuff
which was hanging off of the lower dashboard. With about $10
worth of
material purchased at Home Depot and 3 hours work, here is what I
came up
with:
-Bob
Hey Jim, Chris, Brad.....
Has anyone considered cutting a couple of intake vents in the front air dam
and
channeling the air from these to the appropriate locations? A person
could maybe even
make it 4 small inlets with the air ducting then available
for cooling as well as for
breathing. Some reinforcing would be necessary as
the dam (at least on the Stealths) is
pretty flimsy.
On another note, the gills on the side of our cars are totally aesthetic,
but vents
cut from the engine compartment and channeled to these
locations would make them more
than "purty," and like the rear
facing hood extractors (from Bozz), funnel hot gases out
of our tightly
sealed compartments.( Just an idea for someone with the equipment.)
If
the hood tower blisters and side gills could be made functional, I believe
the
temperature problem would be history. While I'm at it, does anyone
know how we can
instal a tail and wings so we can actually get these things
off the ground : )
Best
Darc
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Jan 3 15:55:06 1999
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From: "Meyer" <
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To: <
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: EVC-VPC-GCC installation
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 18:51:06
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Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
I did this as well, but I retained an Alipne Head unit on top. I
then
mounted an EVC 4, Apex AFC, and an EGT meter in the lower DIN
section. It
was fairly simple.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Jan 3 16:50:14 1999
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Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 19:45:52 -0500
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.comFrom:
Shawn Dewey <
sdewey@dmv.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
EVC-VPC-GCC installation
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OK, It has to be asked....what is the red toggle for?
Rocket boosters
or your chute deployment for the green beast?
-shawn dewey
'91 Stealth R/T nonturbo 15.426 @ 90.68 (in the happy hands of a new
owner!)
'93 3000GT VR4 12.98 @ 107 mph
'91 Talon TSI AWD 13.6 @ 98.8 (the
commuter car, yeah right! :)
'95 Talon ESi SCCA Race Car (SSC class)
http://home.dmv.com/~sdeweyFor
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
The red button is the program selector wired to the VPC EPROM. Off
is
"street" and On is "strip".
-Bob
> OK, It has to be asked....what is the red toggle for?
> Rocket
boosters or your chute deployment for the green beast?
If I may add another suggestion to this idea... I suggest changing the
bolts to nylon or
plastic bolts if the noise is really bad. Metal bolts will
transmit almost as much noise
with rubber washers as without.
Bill
91 TT "Old Red"
On 3 Jan 99, at 1:02, R.G. wrote:
> Yes, same at mine in cold Swiss. I think it is a good idea to isolate
the
> solenoid holder plate from the firewall with rubber parts or so. I
thought
> someone did this before.
>
>
-----------------------
> Roger Gerl, Switzerland
Humpty Dumpty was
pushed...
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Jan 3 17:38:17 1999
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From:
"Bill Miller" <
millebi@kw.igs.net>
Organization:
Very little ... as always
To:
stealth@dragnet.com,
stealth@starnet.net,
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.comDate:
Sun, 3 Jan 1999 20:39:24 -0500
Subject: Team3S: Bone Heads.. and Parts cost
question
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Hi Everyone, (Happy New Year while I'm at it).
It seems that someone just had to end my 1998 with a bang (or a
thump/crunch as the case
may be). This Twit backed into me on New Year's Eve
and I'm wondering if any of you would
know the price to replace the plastic
passenger side door trim on a 1991 Stealth TT. I
also have a medium sized
dent in the door and I am not sure if the door needs to be
replaced or not,
so if anyone of you know the price of a complete door replacement I
would be
very appreciative.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Jan 3 19:49:38 1999
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To:
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Re: Team3S: Bone Heads.. and Parts cost question
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Hi Bill;
Are you talking about the lower plastic portion with the "Twin
Turbo" on it (AGG), or the
upper thin piece next to the window? If
it's the lower, the Twin Turbo lettering is a
separate add on and in itself
is not cheap. It might be worth letting your fingers do some
walking to
wrecking yards for starters. I remember a posting at "the squabbling
group" some
time "last year" where a wrecking yard
indicated they had a 95 and a 92 they'd sell complete
for $5 G or
thereabouts, if my memory is accurate (and usually not). Maybe check there if
you
cann't find others. Going to the dealers for parts is a financial
maiming, so try the other
route first. I have been checking wreckers here for
the odd Stealth I hear about that gets
totaled, but mysteriously they never
end up at the wreckers...I suspect off world aliens from
Alpha Centuri (sp)
snatch them up!!
Good luck
Darc
Bill Miller wrote:
> Hi Everyone, (Happy New Year while I'm at it).
>
> It
seems that someone just had to end my 1998 with a bang (or a thump/crunch as the
case
> may be). This Twit backed into me on New Year's Eve and I'm
wondering if any of you would
> know the price to replace the plastic
passenger side door trim on a 1991 Stealth TT. I
> also have a medium
sized dent in the door and I am not sure if the door needs to be
>
replaced or not, so if anyone of you know the price of a complete door
replacement I
> would be very appreciative.
>
>
Thanks,
> Bill
> 91 TT "Old Red"
> Humpty Dumpty was
pushed...
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
Chris:
Me? Mind? Naw .... just remind me the next time we go out for
a
booby-burger that you have a tape recorder in yer pocket and a
camcorder
set up in the corner (I want 5 copies to give away for gifts,
btw). :-)
This isn't a new trick - someone on the Starnet list suggested it
last
year and I pulled the weatherstripping to see if it would work on a
hot
day. I tried it for the first time at Woodburn this summer ....
didn't
see any spectacular times, but *did* happen to start crawling up
the
backside of certain white VR4 just before the finish line ....
another
75' or so and I would've had his butt ... ;-)
One other thing I've had happen (by ACCIDENT), was not shutting the
hood
properly between runs, so that the front edge of the hood was
lifted
about 1-1/4" or so. Why the PIR track steward didn't see
this and wave
me off, I'll never know. I found the mistake when I
pulled back into
the line-up for another run. FWIW, this MISTAKE netted
me my personal
best time in the 1/4. I've wondered ever since then what
gains I might
see if I could rig a safety latch to keep the hood open that
amount
without fearing having it pop open fully along the track. It was
a hot
day, but the engine felt much stronger during that run.
<shrug> I have
all winter to work on it.
Rich
Emerald Green 94 R/T
Chris Winkley wrote:
<snip>
> One trick Rich LeRoy has used (hope you don't
mind me posting this Rich), is
> to remove the rubber seal at the
windshield end of the hood. While this is
> only 1/4" gap or so, it
lets some of that hot air out of the engine
> compartment. Seems like
this, along with some ingenious intake tricks, is a
> good
solution.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
> So, I guess the question is, why then HKS (also sequential) over
> the Blitz? Have you used the HKS also?? If so, and readily
superior,
> then this is the kind of comparative analysis that saves us all a
bunch
> of time and money.
I must admit that my decision to go with the HKS Super Seq. BOV
instead
of my old Blitz Super Sound BOV is somewhat arbitrary. I
prefer the HKS
because I simply would rather not use the stock
bypass valve, even if its
operation in sequence with the Blitz might
have some benefits. It's
kind of like deciding to add Leonard Slatkin's
production of Mass in B-minor
to your CD collection even though
you know that the John Eliot Gardiner
version will be closer to
Bach's "intentions" (since Gardiner uses
period instruments) and more
"intimate" (relative to Slatkin), as
have been his recordings of St.
Matthew's Passion and Verdi's Requiem.
Of course, the best thing
is to have both in one's collection, but I
digress. I doubt I'm making
sense ...
To put it another way, the new HKS SSBOV is flashy, gimmicky,
and
somewhat pompous in style. Its sound is very unique and draws
much
attention to itself. It necessitates the elimination of the
stock
bypass valve which leaks at high boost. Form is a bit higher
than
funtion. The Blitz SSBOV is simple, straightforward, and utilizes the
old
ways (ie, the stock bypass valve). Function is high, and benefits
might
be had b/c of using the stock b.v., but form falls a bit behind the
HKS.
The whooshing sound of the Blitz is strong, yet subdued, and it
sounds
not unlike a whale exhaling through its blowhole--perfect for the
nature
enthusiast. The HKS, on the other hand, has more of a
mechanical
"chatter" to it--perfect if you want your car to sound
high-tech. The
GReddy sounds somewhere between a Star Wars laser blast
and a
chipmunk--perfect for ... uhhh ... I'll pass on this one.
Well I hope this helps, and I welcome any corrections/comments.
:)
--Errin "In touch with his histone H4 gene" Humphrey
Yellow 94
VR4
Seattle, wA
Matthews wrote:
> Okay, it sounds as if the Blitz eliminated the sound in your
case. But
> I'm a little confused. Since the annoying
resonance has been attributed
> to the stock BOV, how does a system that
utilizes the stock BOV
> eliminate it? Is the stock BOV connected to
the Blitz instead of to the
> intake? But if venting the stock BOV
to the atmosphere and plugging the
> intake makes the engine stall and run
poorly, then how would this be any
> different? Also, if the stock
BOV leaks, then isn't this a weak link in
> the chain? Please
advise! Thanx.
Roger wrote some good answers / speculation to your questions.
All I can
add is the following: I personally don't know what exactly
is causing
the hooting noise in your car and mine and possibly others'.
Your guess is as
good as mine. :) What I was trying to say in my
previous post was
that when I had the Blitz (which utilizes the stock
bypass valve (
a[incorrectly]ka BOV ) my exhaust was either very
very loud, or my clutch was
slipping like crazy at lower rpms, and
thus I can't say ~100%~ that it wasn't
making the noise. Still, I never
noticed it until just recently when I
removed the Blitz. I know that it
doesn't make sense that there wasn't
a hoot when I had the Blitz
(since it uses the stock b.v.), but I guess there
might be ~some~
crazy explanation out there IF indeed it wasn't making the
sound back
then.
Barry, if you're reading this, maybe you could tell us if you
ever
remember hearing this "hooting" sound before, and if it ever
made
that sound with your Blitz?
Jim, you and I are both using the K&N, so that is a variable we
must
eliminate when comparing to others' experiences. In any case,
we will
find out more when you get a chance to throw Roger's HKS
on your car (or if
you buy an aftermarket BOV). I will pick up the
HKS one of these days
and will let you know what happens. In
answer to your query about the
Blitz setup, a pipe extends from the
hole in the Y-pipe. This pipe is
actually a y-pipe which is bolted to
the Blitz and hose-clamped to the hose
which subsequently connects
to the stock bypass valve. The b.v. then
goes as usual back into the
intake.
*I'm pretty sure I know how the Blitz worked. If you have the
spring
adjusted really tight (Barry has his all the way tightened, and he
says you
can order a stronger race spring) you will end up using the stock
bypass
valve to a much greater degree. Even when I had the screw 1/3 of
the
way out, I still never heard the Blitz actually blow off. I really
wan't
getting my money's worth. If you back out the screw, you loosen
the
spring (?), thus allowing the Blitz to blow off more boost. I
backed my
screw way out, and I think this is probably ideal in most
cases. If you
allow too much boost back into the intake, you might
cause a short but
potentially dangerous lean condition. It might not be
a big deal, but it
is better to have all variables accounted for and play it
safe. Thus, I
will get the HKS so that I can simply "blow it all
off." :) Ooh baby!
Roger, I've noted your problems adjusting the HKS. I hope
this
doesn't cause a hassle for me. I don't use cruise control often,
and
it is possible that HKS might have eliminated the problem in
their
newest available BOV's. You are using the newer "round"
BOV,
correct? Not the older purple BOV shaped like a megaphone?
Later all!
--Errin "Just one more week of break please!" Humphrey
Yellow
94 VR4
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 21 00:17:05 1999
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> A simple question - I always thought the proper move in a bad
situation was
> to CLUTCH, ie put no load - dragging or accelerating - on
the
> traction-deficient tires. And countersteer, pucker, pray, etc, but
NOT press
> the gas. Any comments?
This is correct. On the track I was able to get out of any danger
swinging
situation by shortly pressing the clutch until it feels good again
while keeping
the rpms over 3000. Also helping with a slight braking but
still on the gas
during this situation is one of the best methods but not
easy as the pedals are
not made for "heel and toe" in our
cars.
Enjoy,
Roger
-----------------------
Roger Gerl, Switzerland
93'3000GT TwinTurbo
(Animale Rosso)
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 21 01:24:15 1999
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RE: Team3S: Re: Well that was fun...
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:24:02
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Yes, the clutch can be a good thing to use when you are in trouble.
BUT if you use it your car handles exactly like any other car without AWD
(bad). So to get the advantage that our cars have over the others then you
better use it instead of the clutch.
For example if you under steer (plowing) in a curve then just release
the gas a little bit to bring the front end in (or you can use the clutch for a
very short time) and then give gas (Not WOT). this will result in more
traction and stearing and the rear will swing out a bit. This way you have used
the AWD instead of "disconnected" it with the clutch.
Someone said a few weeks ago that he have been testing the limits at a big
parking lot. I suggest that you all go out and play on a big parking lot
tonight and you will be a much better driver tomorrow. (try to avoid the lamp
posts!!!)
Mikael Akesson (driving in snow every day and love it!)
>A simple question - I always thought the proper move in a bad
situation was
>to CLUTCH, ie put no load - dragging or accelerating - on
the
>traction-deficient tires. And countersteer, pucker, pray, etc, but
NOT press
>the gas. Any comments?
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 21 01:33:25 1999
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From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
To: <
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Subject:
RE: Team3S: Re: Well that was fun...
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 02:33:19
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It depends. With an AWD vehicle and in a situation where the rears
have let
loose but the fronts are still planted, applying power and judicous
steering
input can bring the back end back in line. The same technique
may well not
work in a RWD vehicle however since you've already lost traction
and
spinning the rears may allow the polar momentum to work against
you. Some
power to the rears in that case *may* help though as long as
you don't
exceed the traction budget. It depends on the nature of the
slide, where
you are in the corner (if it is a corner), weight biasing at the
time and so
on. Steering with the throttle is key to driving very
fast.
With WWD you can often get away with hanging the rear end out a LOT
and
steering with the throttle since applying power and spinning the
front
wheels will of course have no real negative effect on rear
traction.
One thing you can do with AWD that has much less benefit with RWD or WWD
is
steering with the brakes. You can often go far deeper into a corner
with
AWD and use the brakes in a similar fashion to throttle steering except
in
reverse (sort of <g>) to assist in directing the car.
Attempting this with
non-AWD often ends up in locking up one corner much
earlier than desired.
Personally I would only disengage the clutch under extreme situations
like
perhaps glare ice. Applying power to match wheel speed to ground
speed is
best since that increases available traction and gives the driver
more
options to control traction.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
> A simple question - I always
thought the proper move in a bad
> situation was
> to CLUTCH, ie put
no load - dragging or accelerating - on the
> traction-deficient tires.
And countersteer, pucker, pray, etc,
> but NOT press
> the gas. Any
comments?
I would think the more sideways you are, the less help the clutch
would
do. In an extreme example, you could be completely sideways and
the
clutch would do nothing, but gassing it may get you through the
turn. I
would also think that when fishtailing in a fwd car, or an awd
where the
front it getting more torque, then gassing would get you
through the turn
easier. I'd agree that in most circumstances, clutch
would help more,
but not all circumstances.
Jason
>
> > A simple question - I always thought the proper move in
a bad situation was
> > to CLUTCH, ie put no load - dragging or
accelerating - on the
> > traction-deficient tires. And countersteer,
pucker, pray, etc, but NOT press
> > the gas. Any comments?
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 21 06:42:27 1999
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Subject:
Team3S: Regrinding the Cam pros & con question.
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What's the current info on the advisability of regrinding the Cam?
I'm
told new material can be added & its then reground.
Is a new Billet Cam
worth the added cost?
Arty 91 VR-4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 21 06:53:32 1999
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I don't think there is any problem with having a cam
reground - but there
is alot to be considered in changing the cam profiles.
First - are you wanting
to do the intake, exhaust, or both? Do you know what
results you want
(specifically - inprovement in low/ midrange torque,
increased rpm, ect ) and
also decide how much driveability you are willing to
sacrifice to get it - and
do you know what the final configuration of your
engine is going to be? ( ex-
making modifications to the engine such as
bigger turbos or different exhaust
should be done before / along with the
cams - preferably so that everything is
matched.
Choosing a cam
profile is an area where you can benifit from an experts help
- at least
someone who has done it in a similar engine / vehicle. There is
alot to be
lost if the proper cam profile for your exact engine setup
isn't
chosen.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 21 07:31:46 1999
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I would imagine the cost of adding material (welding
would be the only way) then
regrinding then re-tempering would be way more
costly than buying a new cam.
Just the re-tempering alone
would be more than the price of a new cam at a secondary
market
establishment.
A lot of manufacturers today are grinding
new cams out of hex stock and then they
temper them. This to me would be one
less step vs welding and then regrinding and
tempering.
I would think the only time you would go with something like that would be to
set up
a cam lobe that isn't available on the open market like in a specialty
engineering shop.
John
> What's the current info on the advisability of regrinding the
Cam?
> I'm told new material can be added & its then reground.
>
Is a new Billet Cam worth the added cost?
> Arty 91 VR-4
> For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 21 07:54:43 1999
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From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
To: <
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Regrinding the Cam pros & con question.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan
1999 08:54:42 -0700
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Wrong. Regrinds can be had for $50 a stick. New off the shelf
cams for
common engines start around $150. For cams that do not exist
and must be
developed from scracth, you will pay upwards of $3000 for the
first
set...Furthermore, that first set is likely not to work since said cam
does
not yet exist.
This is an area researched by at least two if not more people on this
list
over the last 12-18 months. Bottom line is that it will costs a
LOT of
money to develop the first set of cams that work and even subsequent
sets
would be very expensive.
To top it all off, the stock cams actually work extremely well.
No
worthwhile or significant HP gains can be had without making radical
cam
profile changes which would require major rework of the heads and
supporting
valve train.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
> I would
imagine the cost of adding material (welding would be
> the only way)
then
> regrinding then re-tempering would be way more costly than
buying
> a new cam.
> Just the re-tempering
alone would be more than the price of a
> new cam at a secondary
>
market establishment.
> A lot of manufacturers
today are grinding new cams out of hex
> stock and then they
>
temper them. This to me would be one less step vs welding and
> then
regrinding and
> tempering.
> I would think
the only time you would go with something like
> that would be to set
up
> a cam lobe that isn't available on the open market like in a
>
specialty engineering shop.
>
> John
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From: Dennis Moore <
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To:
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Re: Team3S: Regrinding the Cam pros & con question.
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Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
I'm not sure I agree with this statement: welding isn't the only way,
and
may not be the best. HVOF-type finishes are probably suitable for
this,
as they are becoming quite common in high-wear situations. (Who's
gonna
be the first to ask what HVOF is?)
HVOF is a specialized "flame-spray" metal coating, noted for it's
wear
durability. It is also "greener" than chemical coatings,
like hard chrome
plating. Also, they would require no tempering after
being refinished.
One caveat, however, is the limit on how thickly you can
buildup with
HVOF. It may not be sufficient for this application.
You can also get attractive cosmetic finishes by this process. That
may
be of most interest.
Hope this helps
Change is disruptive - but that's the point!
On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, John wrote:
> I would imagine the cost of adding material
(welding would be the
> only way) then
At 09:42 AM 1/21/99 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm told new material can be
added & its then reground.
>Is a new Billet Cam worth the added
cost?
Companies have been regrinding cams for years. It's a reliable process
that
many people have used. However, the advantage to using new blanks is,
if
you choose a profile that doesnt work, you can swap them back and
forth
with the originals (regrinding the former blanks) until you find a
profile
that does work. You always have the originals to fall back on. Notice
that
iv'e been referring to these as "blanks" vs.
"billet". These days,
companies use the word billet to justify an
inflated cost, because when
someone hears the word billet, the first thing
that comes to mind is a
beautiful chunck of CNC (which is another acronym
that translates to "lets
charge more") machined aluminum that has
been anodized. Refer to them as
blanks, you might be surprised at the
difference in price. A typical blank
should cost around $100, assuming blanks
are even available for this engine.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 21 09:08:07 1999
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Team3S: Re: Well that was fun...
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This is what they taught us at skip barber.
If the rear of your car is braking loose aceleration will
transfer
weight to the rear tires and plant them immediately. (Trust me
this
manuever has saved me many a slides in the past). If the front
is
breaking loose the opposite is true. Braking will regain
traction. It
will make your counter-steer instant, and you will launch
off in
whatever direction the wheels are facing just watch you steering
angles,
when braking out of a skid. If your skid is too far sideways
they
always told us "In spin both feet in" after a going past 135
Degress let
loose in the throttle steering into the skid, 225 deg then crank
the
wheel back the other way. clutch and brake again, the past 315
degrees
let loose again. It'll pull you right out. Try it.
We had to do it in
a dodge dakota. It was really fun.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 21 09:19:24 1999
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To: <
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Cc:
<
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Subject: Re: Team3S:
Regrinding the Cam pros & con question.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:23:15
-0500
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Arty, I have some experience with cams, not on our cars, but with big
block
engines in my earlier years.
1. you must profile the type of performance you want from your car
ie:
. drag strip times
. road
race
. top end salt flats
. all
around little bit of everything
2. Be satisfied that when you cam to the max for your desired profile
that
is all you should expect from the car. Performance in other areas
will
totally suck.
3. If you go for a full drag type grind, dont expect to be able to
drive
the car on the street without the feeling that it sucks in traffic. It
will
run like gold for that 10 sec at the track, but all who ride with you in
the
street will think your car needs a tune up.
4. If the grinds dont exist for your profile, expect to try and try
till
you get what you want. Build a relationship with a shop that wants to
sell
what you test or get your wallet out.
5. All in all, I would rate the stock cams in our cars as very good.
They
produce a nice wide band of performance.
6. Plan on spending money for the valve train, as you push the edge
on
duration and lift, you have to close those valves with
"authority". This
requires stouter springs and retainers least you
suck the valve. If these
upgrades dont exist for these engines you can plan
on spending more money to
have the upgrade manufactured.
7. Work out your total design criteria on paper first so you can
evaluate
all the associated costs to get what you want. When you implement
cam
changes, you envolve the entire engines valve, compression, rpm range
and
fuel system.
Good luck,
>What's the current info on the advisability of regrinding the
Cam?
>I'm told new material can be added & its then
reground.
>Is a new Billet Cam worth the added cost?
>Arty 91
VR-4
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm>
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 21 10:22:44 1999
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Re: Team3S: Regrinding the Cam pros & con question.
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000101be4556$5ba9a0e0$0500a8c0@beast.kingdom.com>
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Interesting. I have never had any experience with a regrind. At $50 a stick
it would be
worthwhile. I suppose you are referring to original regrind with
same lobes. What do
they build them up with? Like I said, I imagined. I am
picturing in my mind a person
building up the lobe with a weld. This would
not be done quickly and labor is after all
money. I would also imagine having
that much welding done as costing over $50 by itself.
Then, welding removes
temper, so they must be heated and tempered to the correct
Rockwell or they
would wear quickly. The process must be different than I am
imagining,
enlighten me.
John
"Barry E. King" wrote:
> Wrong. Regrinds can be had for $50 a stick. New off the
shelf cams for
> common engines start around $150. For cams that do
not exist and must be
> developed from scracth, you will pay upwards of
$3000 for the first
> set...Furthermore, that first set is likely not to
work since said cam does
> not yet exist.
>
> This is an area
researched by at least two if not more people on this list
> over the last
12-18 months. Bottom line is that it will costs a LOT of
> money to
develop the first set of cams that work and even subsequent sets
> would
be very expensive.
>
> To top it all off, the stock cams actually
work extremely well. No
> worthwhile or significant HP gains can be
had without making radical cam
> profile changes which would require major
rework of the heads and supporting
> valve train.
>
>
Regards,
>
> Barry
>
> > -----Original
Message-----
> > I would imagine the cost of
adding material (welding would be
> > the only way) then
> >
regrinding then re-tempering would be way more costly than buying
> > a
new cam.
> > Just the re-tempering alone would
be more than the price of a
> > new cam at a secondary
> >
market establishment.
> > A lot of
manufacturers today are grinding new cams out of hex
> > stock and then
they
> > temper them. This to me would be one less step vs welding
and
> > then regrinding and
> > tempering.
>
> I would think the only time you would go with
something like
> > that would be to set up
> > a cam lobe that
isn't available on the open market like in a
> > specialty engineering
shop.
> >
> > John
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
--
It sounds like you are not quite sure HVOF would work, so we can't consider
it unless we
know for a fact it does. What other process were you thinking of
that made you think
welding wasn't the only answer. Plating would also take
many coats, so what else?
John
Dennis Moore wrote:
> I'm not sure I agree with this statement: welding isn't the only way,
and
> may not be the best. HVOF-type finishes are probably suitable
for this,
> as they are becoming quite common in high-wear
situations. (Who's gonna
> be the first to ask what HVOF
is?)
>
> HVOF is a specialized "flame-spray" metal
coating, noted for it's wear
> durability. It is also
"greener" than chemical coatings, like hard chrome
>
plating. Also, they would require no tempering after being
refinished.
> One caveat, however, is the limit on how thickly you can
buildup with
> HVOF. It may not be sufficient for this
application.
>
> You can also get attractive cosmetic finishes by
this process. That may
> be of most interest.
>
> Here
are some web sites for more info:
>
http://members.aol.com/getscc/hvof.htm>
http://dol1.eng.sunysb.edu/tsl/thermal/article1.html
(this is a huge
> document)
--
--------------2ADA0E5DFC3744D23F8CB462
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In checking out the page on HVOF, (High Velocity Oxygen Fuel) It isn't a
coating but a
process for applying coatings, much the same as compressed air
is used for sandblasting with
the injection (by vacuum in this case) sand. In
comparison to LVOF it can spray thicker
coatings, however it makes no mention
of cams. It goes on to say both processes can spray
any type of coating as
long as it doesn't decompose before melting. The powder is injected
into the
stream using high pressure. It seems like a new process and probably is
pretty
expensive till it becomes more widely used.
John
> Dennis Moore wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure I agree with
this statement: welding isn't the only way, and
> > may not be the
best. HVOF-type finishes are probably suitable for this,
> > as
they are becoming quite common in high-wear situations. (Who's
gonna
> > be the first to ask what HVOF is?)
> >
> >
HVOF is a specialized "flame-spray" metal coating, noted for it's
wear
> > durability. It is also "greener" than chemical
coatings, like hard chrome
> > plating. Also, they would require
no tempering after being refinished.
> > One caveat, however, is the
limit on how thickly you can buildup with
> > HVOF. It may not be
sufficient for this application.
> >
> > You can also get
attractive cosmetic finishes by this process. That may
> > be of
most interest.
> >
> > Here are some web sites for more
info:
> >
http://members.aol.com/getscc/hvof.htm>
>
http://dol1.eng.sunysb.edu/tsl/thermal/article1.html
(this is a huge
> > document)
>
>
> For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
--
--------------2ADA0E5DFC3744D23F8CB462
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charset=us-ascii
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0
transitional//en">
<html>
In checking out the page on HVOF,
(High Velocity Oxygen Fuel) It isn't
a coating but a process for applying
coatings, much the same as compressed
air is used for sandblasting with the
injection (by vacuum in this case)
sand. In comparison to LVOF it can spray
thicker coatings, however it makes
no mention of cams. It goes on to say both
processes can spray any type
of coating as long as it doesn't decompose
before melting. The powder is
injected into the stream using high pressure.
It seems like a new process
and probably is pretty expensive till it becomes
more widely used.
<p>John
<br>
<blockquote
TYPE=CITE>Dennis Moore wrote:
<p>> I'm not sure I agree with this
statement: welding isn't the only way,
and
<br>> may not be the
best. HVOF-type finishes are probably suitable
for
this,
<br>> as they are becoming quite common in high-wear
situations.
(Who's gonna
<br>> be the first to ask what
HVOF is?)
<br>>
<br>> HVOF is a specialized
"flame-spray" metal coating, noted for it's
wear
<br>>
durability. It is also "greener" than chemical coatings,
like
hard chrome
<br>> plating. Also, they would
require no tempering after being
refinished.
<br>> One caveat,
however, is the limit on how thickly you can buildup
with
<br>>
HVOF. It may not be sufficient for this
application.
<br>>
<br>> You can also get attractive
cosmetic finishes by this process.
That may
<br>> be of
most interest.
<br>>
<br>> Here are some web sites for
more info:
<br>> <a
href="http://members.aol.com/getscc/hvof.htm">
http://members.aol.com/getscc/hvof.htm</a>
<br>>
<a
href="http://dol1.eng.sunysb.edu/tsl/thermal/article1.html">
http://dol1.eng.sunysb.edu/tsl/thermal/article1.html</a>
(this
is a huge
<br>> document)
<br><a
href="http://user.icx.net/~adams/atlanta_gathering1098.htm"></a>
<p>For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is <a
href="http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm">
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm</a></blockquote>
--------------2ADA0E5DFC3744D23F8CB462--
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 21 11:00:04 1999
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To:
"
'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'"
<
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Which could it be: Clutch or Trans...
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:04:20
+0100
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Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Hmm... Was running low on the good stuff (gas) and decided
to head
into a petrol station. On my way in I notice a
fairly audible BANG! and
seem to have lost all gears...
I had the clutch checked less than a week ago (with the
standard
warrentee service check).
The car will not move. Whenever I attempt to shift into
gear (1st,
2nd, 3rd) to get the thing rolling all I hear
is a horrible combination of
scraping/grinding (no movement).
Needless to say the car is currently sitting out side the
local Mitsi
dealer (after having to insist on a flatbed).
They will not have time to look at it for a while, but what
could I be
expecting to find? I would have throught it was
the clutch assembly as
it has taken out all gears...
Any thoughts
4 things that have gone BANG on my car, disabling it at one time or
another:
1. Grenaded transfer case
2. Stripped output
shaft
3. Busted pressure plate
4. Busted flywheel
#1 or #2 are the most likely.
-Bob
'93 VR-4 NGK BCPR6ES copper plugs gapped .032
/
hole-blown-in-rear-timing-cover mod
> Hmm... Was running low on the good stuff (gas) and decided
> to
head into a petrol station. On my way in I notice a
> fairly audible
BANG! and seem to have lost all gears...
>
> I had the clutch
checked less than a week ago (with the
> standard warrentee service
check).
>
> The car will not move. Whenever I attempt to shift
into
> gear (1st, 2nd, 3rd) to get the thing rolling all I hear
> is
a horrible combination of scraping/grinding (no movement).
Great story, Ron.
But just to satisfy my morbid curiosity... What kind of tires do
you
have on that beast?
David
BEK> With WWD you can often get away with hanging the rear end out
a
BEK> LOT and steering with the throttle since applying power
and
BEK> spinning the front wheels will of course have no real
negative
BEK> effect on rear traction.
BEK> One thing you can do with AWD that has much less benefit
with
BEK> RWD or WWD is steering with the brakes.
Barry,
Pardon my ignorance, but what's WWD?
Thanks!
David
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 21 11:48:50 1999
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Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:48:46 -0800
From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
To: <
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Another Question Concerning "Well that was
fun..."
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:48:50 -0700
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Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Hehe. S'okay.
"Wrong Wheel Drive" which is what some people call FWD (Front
Wheel Drive)
configurations. Also, transversely mounted engines are
sometimes referred
to as being "mounted the wrong way".
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
> On Thursday, January 21,
1999,
> Barry E. King [
beking@home.com] writes:
>
>
BEK> With WWD you can often get away with hanging the rear end out a
>
BEK> LOT and steering with the throttle since applying power and
>
BEK> spinning the front wheels will of course have no real negative
>
BEK> effect on rear traction.
>
> BEK> One thing you can do
with AWD that has much less benefit with
> BEK> RWD or WWD is steering
with the brakes.
>
> Barry,
>
> Pardon my ignorance, but
what's WWD?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> David
On Jan 21, Barry E. King said:
> Hehe. S'okay.
>
>
"Wrong Wheel Drive" which is what some people call FWD (Front Wheel
Drive)
> configurations. Also, transversely mounted engines are
sometimes referred
> to as being "mounted the wrong way".
Aren't they mounted that way so power could be transferred to the
driving
wheels in an easy manner? I guess the VR-4 coulda gone either
way, but the
SL/Base/RT cars are better-off mounted the wrong way.
right?
The NSX has a transverse-mounted engine. Hm...dunno about the
Porsche.
-sankar
--
*******************************************************************************
Improve
a mechanical device and you may double productivity. But
improve
man, you gain a thousandfold.
-- Khan Noonian Singh,
"Space Seed," stardate
3142.8.
*******************************************************************************
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Which could it be: Clutch or
Trans...
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<< The car will not move. Whenever I attempt to shift
into
gear (1st, 2nd, 3rd) to get the thing rolling all I
hear
is a horrible combination of scraping/grinding (no movement).
>>
This happened to me when they first installed my new clutch. They
said "Ok,
car's all set! Come one down". Well - after I
paid them the $800 for the new
clutch, I attempted to drive away, and
couldn't get into gear. I heard
probably the same grinding and scraping
noise you're hearing. They said it
was a mis-alligned cylinder
rod. Thats all I know. They fixed it within a
half hour.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 21 11:58:47 1999
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Another Question Concerning "Well that was
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In a message dated 99-01-21 14:49:13 EST, you write:
<< "Wrong Wheel Drive" which is what some people call FWD
(Front Wheel Drive)
configurations. Also, transversely mounted
engines are sometimes referred
to as being "mounted the wrong
way".
>>
WWD (wrong wheel drive) is also sometimes reffered to as ALIHSWD (at
least it
has some-wheel-drive) by AWD owners waiting on Getrag parts.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 21 12:06:06 1999
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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 15:06:02 -0500
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From: Dennis Moore <
stealth@kiva.net>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: Regrinding the Cam pros & con question.
In-Reply-To: <
36A77099.6B77B4E3@icx.net>
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I've never rebuilt/redesigned a cam for an automotive engine, so I'm
not
intimate with *every* consideration for that application. I
*have*
redesigned hydraulic motor shaft seal interfaces, where high
pressures,
high contamination, high corrosion, and infrequent operation of
the
systems were involved. We changed to an HVOF metal surface,
and
dramatically improved the life expectancy of the motors.
We assessed and dismissed weld-cladding, hard-chrome plating, and
ceramic
coating.
HVOF is being used for ship-shafts, jet engine components, and
other
high-temp/high-stress applications, so it can't be dismissed out of
hand
for use on cams.
To be blunt, I have no personal plans to change my cams, so I'm
not
particularily interested in doing a lot of research into whether or
not
HVOF is workable for this application. I merely offered it as
an
alternative for someone who *is* getting ready to dive into cam
upgrades.
Hope it helps.
Change is disruptive - but that's the point!
On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, John wrote:
> It sounds like you are not quite sure HVOF would work, so we
can't
> consider it unless we know for a fact it does. What other process
were
> you thinking of that made you think welding wasn't the only
answer.
> Plating would also take many coats, so what else?
>
> John
>
> Dennis Moore wrote:
>
> > I'm not
sure I agree with this statement: welding isn't the only way, and
> >
may not be the best. HVOF-type finishes are probably suitable for
this,
> > as they are becoming quite common in high-wear
situations. (Who's gonna
> > be the first to ask what HVOF
is?)
> >
> [snip]
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 21 12:07:42 1999
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Re: Team3S: Another Question Concerning "Well that was
fun..."
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Hey Barry;
I wouldn't bite. Someone did. You should get an admin warning for suckering
people : ) :
) ; )
Darc
Barry E. King wrote:
> Hehe. S'okay.
>
> "Wrong Wheel Drive"
which is what some people call FWD (Front Wheel Drive)
>
configurations. Also, transversely mounted engines are sometimes
referred
> to as being "mounted the wrong way".
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 21 12:09:16 1999
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Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 15:09:11 -0500
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From: Dennis Moore <
stealth@kiva.net>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: Regrinding the Cam pros & con question.
In-Reply-To: <
36A774E7.D5C5B3F4@icx.net>
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Actually, it's not particularily new, nor expensive. In fact,
it's
generally less than hard-chrome plating.
Change is disruptive - but that's the point!
On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, John wrote:
[snip]
> powder is injected into
the stream using high pressure. It seems like a
> new process and probably
is pretty expensive till it becomes more widely
> used.
[snip]
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 21 16:24:28 1999
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From:
Brian Danley <
bcdmad@concentric.net>
To:
"
'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'"
<
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Regrinding the Cam pros & con question.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan
1999 18:19:39 -0500
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John, Please leave post like this off our list. Ideas come from
people
thinking together for a common goal. If you would like to
belittle someone
for there Idea .. please take it to the Dragnet list.
I hate sorting through mail that puts down ideas of others.
Brian
AKA Gammara
-----Original Message-----
From: John [
SMTP:adams@icx.net]
Sent: Thursday,
January 21, 1999 1:23 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Regrinding the Cam pros & con question.
It sounds like you are not quite sure HVOF would work, so we can't consider
it unless we
know for a fact it does. What other process were you
thinking of that made
you think
welding wasn't the only answer. Plating
would also take many coats, so what
else?
John
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 21 16:38:58 1999
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To:
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New guy on the list here, so these questions may have been asked
before.
Regarding the Getrag synchros: has anyone looked into commonality between
our
cars and other cars that use Getrag trannys? I know that the Toyota
Supra
turbo has (or at least the previous model had...) a Getrag gearbox.
Assumming
that Getrag sells parts for some of its other automotive
products...
What other cars use a Getrag tranny? - BMW, Mercedes, and Porsche might be
a
good place to start looking. Perhaps some of those slippery Italian
cars?
A good machine shop might be able to take a little material off of a
synchro
from car XX and match it to a synchro from one of our cars. Of course
we would
have to find someone who was willing to open up a 3000gt/stealth
transaxle and
take some measurements - suppose there might be an old,
worn-out, Getrag
tranny out there somewhere we could use?
How much would Getrag be willing to help out here? Someone with
connections
and a tremendous amount of diplomacy might get them to help us
cross-reference
the synchros, and/or even get some dimensioned, toleranced
prints for the
synchros. Yeah, I know - its a long shot... (Jack T. whaddya
think?)
Ok, so lets imagine Getrag doesn't want to help and we can't find a
compatible
synchro from car XX. Who else makes synchros? Is there a Ma and
Pa, inc.
machine shop here in the U.S. that makes tranny parts for
Ford/GM/Chrysler?
Send them some healthy synchros and ask them to duplicate
them. Better yet,
lets find someone who knows a little about tranny design
and see if we can
reverse engineer the synchros, then send a set of
dimensioned, toleranced
prints to Ma and Pa, inc. I know someone who designs
for Ford - he might hook
us up with a tranny expert.
Well, of course having a machine shop custom make synchros is going to
cost
alot. Perhaps an aftermarket performance parts company (HKN,Greddy,
etc.)
would be willing to place a large order (200 sets? 500 sets?) and hold
the
parts in inventory to get the cost down. As long as the only alternative
is a
new transaxle assembly, the synchros would probably sell quite
well.
Hmmmmm...
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 21 16:58:57 1999
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Thu, 21 Jan 1999 19:54:43 -0500
From: John <
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Re: Team3S: Regrinding the Cam pros & con question.
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If you would read my post, I did not cut him down. That is probably just
your
observation. In his post he didn't sound sure. I was merely commenting
on that. If we
are to get nit pickey here he criticized my statement that
welding was the only option,
but did not substantiate any other means. I
didn't go off the deep end about that. What
I was trying to find out was what
those other means were. It appears you have a
predisposition to my meanings,
but if you need to comment please take it off the list
and comment
personally, not in the list. I thought this was a not bashing list. When
you
say "our" list, am I excluded or something? Had you replied
personally, this reply would
also have been personal. And are you not putting
down my ideas? Maybe we need to
practice what we preach sir.
John
Brian Danley wrote:
> John, Please leave post like this off our list. Ideas come from
people
> thinking together for a common goal. If you would like to
belittle someone
> for there Idea .. please take it to the Dragnet
list.
>
> I hate sorting through mail that puts down ideas of
others.
>
> Brian
>
> AKA Gammara
>
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: John [
SMTP:adams@icx.net]
>
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 1999 1:23 PM
>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Regrinding the
Cam pros & con question.
>
> It sounds like you are not quite
sure HVOF would work, so we can't consider
> it unless we
> know for
a fact it does. What other process were you thinking of that made
> you
think
> welding wasn't the only answer. Plating would also take many
coats, so what
> else?
>
>
John
>
>
Name: WINMAIL.DAT
> WINMAIL.DAT Type:
DXPLAYER File
(video/mpeg)
>
Encoding: x-uuencode
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
--
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Thu, 21 Jan 1999 17:27:45 -0800
From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
To: <
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Another Question Concerning "Well that was
fun..."
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 18:27:53 -0700
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Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
The reason for mounting an engine transversly practical. It more
easily
accomodates FWD transaxle design. So yes, you are right, the SL
and base
are better off with transversely mounted engines from a simplicity
of design
standpoint.
Since the VR4 shares the same basic platform with the FWD stable mates
it
makes economic sense to make the VR4 transversely mounted as well.
Beyond
that there is really not any great technical reason for doing
so. AWD is as
easily accomodated with an inline mount as well and in
fact transversely
mounted engines tend to exacerbate torque steer, a
phenomenon that I
personally detest. The only FWD vehicles I have
driven (although there may
be others) that did not exhibit pronounced torque
steer were higher end
Acura sedans. The SL, FWD Eclipses, Honda and any
others all have terrible
torque steer. Exciting but annoying.
The VR4 also exhibits torque steer but to a much lesser degree. It
became
more noticable on my car after the 15Gs, injectors etc.
The rear mounted engine in the Porsche "911" style cars is
mounted with the
crank inline as are the mid-engine Ferraris, Lambos
etc.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
> On Jan 21, Barry E. King
said:
> > Hehe. S'okay.
> >
> > "Wrong
Wheel Drive" which is what some people call FWD (Front
> Wheel
Drive)
> > configurations. Also, transversely mounted engines
are
> sometimes referred
> > to as being "mounted the wrong
way".
>
> Aren't they mounted that way so power could be
transferred to the driving
> wheels in an easy manner? I guess the
VR-4 coulda gone either
> way, but the
> SL/Base/RT cars are
better-off mounted the wrong way. right?
>
> The NSX has a
transverse-mounted engine. Hm...dunno about the Porsche.
>
>
-sankar
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 21 18:50:40 1999
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From:
Kevin Clark <
Kevin.Clark@hnz.co.nz>
To:
"
'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'"
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Subject:
RE: Team3S: Which could it be: Clutch or Trans...
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999
03:54:45 +0100
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Just to update you all...
The local Mitsi dealer has just got back to me and they
feel it is a
broken shaft within the transmission. They
are going to pull the whole
thing apart next week :(
Sounds like a clutch. I did this on a Triumph
Spitfire, out running a VW
bug at a light. I blew
all the vanes lining etc off the clutch plate
so
all that was left was the spline core. I thought
at first it was the
main trany shaft till I pulled
the trany and found NO clutch. Pulling into
a
station doesn't sound like enough strain to take
it out but you just
can't tell.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 21 20:52:40 1999
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Re: Team3S: Question Concerning "Well that was fun..."
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> But just to satisfy my morbid curiosity... What kind of tires do
you
> have on that beast?
Let's see, stock Yoko's 245/40ZR18's with 3300
miles. Pavement was damp
and I had a little too
much power down.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 21 22:17:10 1999
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This is what they taught us at skip barber.
>
> If the rear of
your car is braking loose aceleration will transfer
> weight to the rear
tires and plant them immediately.
Yes basically but to a greater degree it is wheel
speed. When the rear
swings out you have lost
lateral traction from lateral G force
and
overpowering the wheels. When you just step off
the gas, you do the
same in reverse by
decelerating the wheels or under powering
which
mismatches wheel speed to vehicle speed and still
gives you lack of
traction. This is called
compression braking and trailing throttle
over
steer. Ever stepped off going into a turn and have
the rear swing
out? Many a inexperienced Porche
owner has been towed off Mid Ohio and other
road
courses during schools and track time because they
got in too deep
and stepped off the gas. This
happens in any car that has, higher
compression
and little to no flywheel inertia to smooth out
the transition
from power to no power. It's like
pulling on the e-brake.
"When in doubt gas it", is a motorcycle racing
rule of thumb.
If you are sliding in a turn, add
power, slide back over the rear tire, and
wrestle
the bars. You will either power out, or slide out
because you have
unloaded the frame torque and
kept the rear wheel from doing the meanest of
all
things, sliding to a point of lateral traction and
high siding you.
This is that picturesk maneuver
where the bike pitches you through the air to
the
outside of the turn and cart wheels after you. You
do transfer weight
rearward and if you do it right
it's either a power slide or it wheelies and
you
ride the rear tire out of the turn. Now what does
this have to do with
a car and the price of eggs
in Albany?
Same physics, The car is going to high side of
sorts. The point wear
deceleration and lateral
traction meet and it snaps back the
other
direction. You don't want to be there. This starts
the fish tailing
and if you over correct or your
counter steering timing isn't matching the
swings,
you could lose it completely. There was a list
member who
described an incident with a van, a
ditch and a mail box a while back that is
just
this situation. To counter act this you add
throttle if you're off
the gas or back off some
and then power out to get a controlled slide
so
the car doesn't snap back. The AWD cars have the
advantage of getting
pull from the front as well.
In FWD cars it's a must because you
are
compression braking the front wheels so the tail
keeps coming around.
The chassis is also being
loaded and twisted in this situation.
Roger
mentioned heel and toeing the car through. To see
what I mean, go
through a turn in 2nd gear under
some power, and then just step off the gas.
You
will notice the body roll increase and feel the
side walls of the
tires flex more. You have just
changed the weight bias and frame stress of
the
car and so the suspension geometry. Not a good
idea in the middle of a
turn let alone in the
middle of a slide.
Skip Barber probably taught that you Brake and
down shift for the turn
first before you enter,
cut to the apex and apply power from the apex
out.
Real hot shoes will carry braking into the turn
and set the
suspension with the throttle at the
same time and power out. This is real
heel and toe
driving and takes tons of practice.
The whole point of my post is I forgot that
aggressive driving is 100%
attention and you must
be almost as aggressive to get out of what you
got
yourself into. Mikael is right, find a parking lot
and test the limits
and reactions of you and your
car, it will most likely save you pain
and
suffering. These cars are very forgiving to a
degree, and we can be
lulled into a comfort that
is dangerous. We all slam SUV drivers for
thinking
they are invincible, we know they aren't. My roads
a too full of
idiots for me to relax the way I
did, I don't want to hear any of you did
either,
our cars mean too much to us to loose them to a
lapse of
reason.
Sorry to ramble and preach, but I thought it might
save one or more of
us an incident.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Jan 22 06:12:31 1999
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Another Question Concerning "Well that was
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Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
In a message dated 99-01-21 20:29:09 EST, you write:
<< as
easily accomodated with an inline mount as well
and in fact transversely
mounted engines tend to exacerbate torque
steer >>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Jan 22 06:15:54 1999
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In a message dated 99-01-21 20:29:09 EST, you write:
<< AWD is as
easily accomodated with an inline mount
as well and in fact transversely
mounted engines tend to exacerbate
torque steer >>
I am curious how the configuration of the engine mounting can have
any
affect on a vehicle's torque steer. Seems like torque steer would be
a
function of the of transaxle and suspension design - which could be built
the
same way regardless of which way the engine sits. ?
SteveC
'91 3000GT SL
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
-snip-
> and little to no flywheel inertia to smooth out
> the transition
from power to no power. It's like
> pulling on the e-brake.
Interesting, is there way you could modify your car to smooth that
out. An aluminum
flywheel, with less weight, would that allow better
engine brake transitions? Usually
some heal-toe action eliminates this
problem, but my Vr4 kind of jerky even just around
town from that.
> it's either a power slide or it wheelies and you
> ride the rear
tire out of the turn. Now what does
> this have to do with a car and the
price of eggs
> in Albany?
At school our instructor told us about the half day new-drivers
school. For 16 year old
children, who have just recieved their drivers
liscense (or death warrant whichever term
works fine). He tells them
that if they start spinning to gun it. The reason is
simple, it is the
only single instruction that they would remember, and be able to
execute that
is the least likely to save their lives. I think I agree with that.
I'd
rather drivers ed was a 6 month course, but since it's not...
> Skip Barber probably taught that you Brake and
> down shift for
the turn first before you enter,
> cut to the apex and apply power from
the apex out.
> Real hot shoes will carry braking into the turn
>
and set the suspension with the throttle at the
> same time and power out.
This is real heel and toe
> driving and takes tons of practice.
Yeah brake & DS simultaneous. Heal, toe took alot of practice,
and I'm still terrible
at it. The only thing I think was harder than heal toe
was left foot braking.
> our cars mean too much to us to loose them to a
> lapse of
reason.
>
> Sorry to ramble and preach, but I thought it
might
> save one or more of us an incident.
>
No worries, 10 seconds of talking, a world of hurt, sounds like a good
trade-off. Of
course it is handy to know we have a little more weight
than the average sports car, and
could do some hefty damage to that
SUV. But my personal favorite is how we have double
the
horsepower.
At 09:15 AM 1/22/99 -0500, lomcevak wrote:
> I am curious how the configuration of the engine mounting can
have any
>affect on a vehicle's torque steer. Seems like torque steer
would be a
>function of the of transaxle and suspension design - which
could be built the
>same way regardless of which way the engine sits.
?
You're absolutly right, it's not a function of the engine configuration.
If
there was a vehicle out there that had a rear mount engine and FWD,
it
would exibit torque steer as well. It's just that there arent any FWD
cars
that have a paralell mounted engine (which would also have T.S.) so
it's
blamed on the engine, when it's actually the drive wheels. Good
observation.
Wayne
I don't know to much about trannys. Or even what the synchros look
like. But I do have access to CNC machines at my work. Maybe
someone
can send me a picture or tell me what is involved. I may be
able to
help out. I run software called WorkNC which makes cutter
paths for
CNC's. If someone can surface the part I can make it.
Or at least give
me some prints I can have someone here at work surface it
for me. But
like I said I dont even know what these things look like
yet. I can
have things cut within a fairly high tolerance, say
.0005.
Chris
>A good machine shop might be able to take a little material off of
a
synchro
>from car XX and match it to a synchro from one of our cars.
Of course
we would
>have to find someone who was willing to open up a
3000gt/stealth
transaxle and
>take some measurements - suppose there
might be an old, worn-out,
Getrag
>tranny out there somewhere we could
use?
>
>How much would Getrag be willing to help out here? Someone
with
connections
>and a tremendous amount of diplomacy might get them
to help us
cross-reference
>the synchros, and/or even get some
dimensioned, toleranced prints for
the
>synchros. Yeah, I know - its a
long shot... (Jack T. whaddya think?)
>
>Ok, so lets imagine Getrag
doesn't want to help and we can't find a
compatible
>synchro from car
XX. Who else makes synchros? Is there a Ma and Pa,
inc.
>machine shop
here in the U.S. that makes tranny parts for
Ford/GM/Chrysler?
>Send
them some healthy synchros and ask them to duplicate them. Better
yet,
>lets find someone who knows a little about tranny design and see
if we
can
>reverse engineer the synchros, then send a set of
dimensioned,
toleranced
>prints to Ma and Pa, inc. I know someone who
designs for Ford - he
might hook
>us up with a tranny
expert.
>
>Well, of course having a machine shop custom make
synchros is going to
cost
>alot. Perhaps an aftermarket performance
parts company (HKN,Greddy,
etc.)
>would be willing to place a large
order (200 sets? 500 sets?) and hold
the
>parts in inventory to get
the cost down. As long as the only
alternative is a
>new transaxle
assembly, the synchros would probably sell quite well.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Jan 22 08:55:15 1999
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From: "Shattered Soul" <
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To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: getrag parts
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:55:10 PST
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One more thing. We also have a CMM. With an original part it
can be
reverse engineered. The CMM can pick points all over the part
or use a
laser to do a cloud data scan to get its dimensions.
Chris
>
>I don't know to much about trannys. Or even what the
synchros look
>like. But I do have access to CNC machines at my
work. Maybe someone
>can send me a picture or tell me what is
involved. I may be able to
>help out. I run software called
WorkNC which makes cutter paths for
>CNC's. If someone can surface
the part I can make it. Or at least
give
>me some prints I can
have someone here at work surface it for me. But
>like I said I dont even
know what these things look like yet. I can
>have things cut within
a fairly high tolerance, say .0005.
>
>Chris
At 08:40 AM 1/22/99 -0800, Chris wrote:
>But I do have access to CNC
machines at my work. I may be able to
>help out. I run
software called WorkNC which makes cutter paths for
>CNC's.
If someone were to send me a good part, i could whip up a solid model
in
AutoCAD and send the file to chris in a format WorkNC could
translate.
Wayne
P.S. I have a connection who is having output shafts and x-fer case
input
shafts made for both versions of spline sizes if anybody is interested.
I
think he has a few ready to ship.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Jan 22 09:02:58 1999
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To: <
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Subject:
RE: Team3S: getrag parts
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:04:50 -0600
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Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
I would have to have the syncros back, but I would volunteer my set
of
syncros & hubs for R&D.
Let me know what you are planning to do. I have 1,2,3,4 syncros. They
fit
both the 5 speed and 6 speed trannys.
One more thing. We also have a CMM. With an original part it
can be
reverse engineered. The CMM can pick points all over the part or
use a
laser to do a cloud data scan to get its dimensions.
Chris
>
>I don't know to much about trannys. Or even what the
synchros look
>like. But I do have access to CNC machines at my
work. Maybe someone
>can send me a picture or tell me what is
involved. I may be able to
>help out. I run software called
WorkNC which makes cutter paths for
>CNC's. If someone can surface
the part I can make it. Or at least
give
>me some prints I can
have someone here at work surface it for me. But
>like I said I dont even
know what these things look like yet. I can
>have things cut within
a fairly high tolerance, say .0005.
>
>Chris
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Jan 22 09:47:24 1999
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From: Ken Middaugh <
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To:
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Re: Team3S: Re: Well that was fun...long
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36A75EF0.E5BC50D4@attitudeink.com>
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Ron Thompson wrote:
>
> This is what they taught us at skip
barber.
> >
> > If the rear of your car is braking loose
aceleration will transfer
> > weight to the rear tires and plant them
immediately.
>
> Yes basically but to a greater degree it is
wheel
> speed. When the rear swings out you have lost
Actually, tire grip is the most fundamental principal here. The
maximum
tire grip can be exceeded by both weight transfer (less weight on
tire =
smaller grip) or by the tire spinning slower or faster than the road.
Good posts Andrew & Ron.
--
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Jan 22 11:31:50 1999
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Content-Identifier: Clutch Fluid Question
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Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:25 -0600
From: Jeff A Williamson <
Jeff.A.Williamson@jci.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Clutch Fluid Question
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I'm geeting ready to bleed the clutch hydraulic system. The manual says to
use
a DOT3 or DOT4 fluid, and does not recommend mixing the different types.
Does
anyone know the original type of fluid (from the factory) used on the
first
generation VR4? Otherwise I'll have to drain, flush, and re-fill
the whole
system. Thanks.
Jeff Williamson
Belleville, MI
'92 VR4
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Jan 22 13:31:38 1999
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From: "Michael
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To:
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'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'"
<
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Subject:
RE: Team3S: Regrinding the Cam pros & con question.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan
1999 14:30:37 -0700
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> ----------
> From: Team3S
> Digest[
SMTP:owner-stealth-3000gt-digest@list.sirius.com]
>
Sent: 21 January, 1999 4:19 PM
> To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Regrinding the Cam pros & con question.
>
>
>
To the gentleman who was looking for a way to increase the
intensity of the
headlights on his 91 VR4 about a week ago. I may have
a possible solution
for you. Within the last week I lost both of the
headlights on my 91STT. I
agree with your point about these factory
sealed lamps being far too dim.
They are about $16.00 CDN a piece to replace
here so what's that in American
funds,.... about $1.06? Anyway,
while looking for new brighter options I
stumbled upon a kit made by
Bosch. The kit includes two lamp housings that
look identical to
factory however they are only housings, not a sealed
lamps. This allows
for the changing of the bulbs to which many, much
brighter, options are
open. The kit up here is $125.00 CDN. which works
out to about
$82 bones for you Yankee types. I am picking mine up tommorow.
Hope
this helps.
Later
mike
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Jan 22 17:43:47 1999
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Re: Team3S: Regrinding the Cam pros & con question.
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<B1773568B353D011A26800805F9A885E021BB6F1@ZEUS>
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Mike;
I haven't had to change mine yet, but my Brother in Law had one burn
out,
flipped at Chrysler prices, and just changed the hardware inside with
a
jobber/after market setup and now he's into cheap bulb replacements. I
believe
he said the whole replacement with aftermarket harware and bulbs was
around $50
cdn...for our American veiwers, read "Cheap"!!
Look into it before picking up
yours tommorow, unless you like the name Bosch
(which nobody can read inside the
fixture).
Best
Darc
Michael O'Krancy wrote:
snip
> Anyway, while looking for new brighter options I
>
stumbled upon a kit made by Bosch. The kit includes two lamp housings
that
> look identical to factory however they are only housings, not a
sealed
> lamps. This allows for the changing of the bulbs to which
many, much
> brighter, options are open. The kit up here is $125.00
CDN. which works
> out to about $82 bones for you Yankee
types. I am picking mine up tommorow.
> Hope this
helps.
>
> Later
>
>
>
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Jan 22 17:55:50 1999
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Oops!!! I forgot to change the "Subject Header" on my last repost
re light
replacement. ( See below) . Sorry Team...beat and flog
me. Oh how the mighty have
fallen!
Best
Darc
> snip
>
> I haven't had to change mine yet, but my
Brother in Law had one burn out,
> flipped at Chrysler prices, and just
changed the hardware inside with a
> jobber/after market setup and now
he's into cheap bulb replacements. I believe
> he said the whole
replacement with aftermarket harware and bulbs was around $50
> cdn...for
our American veiwers, read "Cheap"!! Look into it before picking
up
> yours tommorow, unless you like the name Bosch (which nobody can read
inside the
> fixture).
snip
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Jan 22 18:02:02 1999
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Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:01:59 -0800
From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
To: <
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Another Question Concerning "Well that was
fun..."
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:02:23 -0700
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Yeah, I screwed up. The torque steer is really more a function of the
open
diff typically found on consumer cars.
The direction the crank turns can however affect chassis geometry
and
ultimately how a car steers. I suppose in that case a transversely
mounted
engine could actually offer benefits.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
> > I am curious how the
configuration of the engine mounting can have any
> >affect on a
vehicle's torque steer. Seems like torque steer would be a
> >function
of the of transaxle and suspension design - which could
> be built
the
> >same way regardless of which way the engine sits.
?
>
> You're absolutly right, it's not a function of the
engine
> configuration. If
> there was a vehicle out there that had
a rear mount engine and FWD, it
> would exibit torque steer as well. It's
just that there arent any FWD cars
> that have a paralell mounted engine
(which would also have T.S.) so it's
> blamed on the engine, when it's
actually the drive wheels. Good
> observation.
>
> Wayne
I had a similar offer from someone who is high up in an aero-space
company.
He said he could get a few made as a favor. I think it would
be great if
someone were to provide these parts to the general public
though.
I am wondering though if there is some design change that could
be
implemented to make the system last a little longer.
Anyone out there have the knwoeldge or contacts to analyze and
suggest
design mods?
Regards,
Barry
On tranny #3 and holding (so far), this time it is out of
warranty.
> -----Original Message-----
>
> At 08:40 AM 1/22/99 -0800,
Chris wrote:
> >But I do have access to CNC machines at my work.
I may be able to
> >help out. I run software called WorkNC which
makes cutter paths for
> >CNC's.
>
> If someone were to
send me a good part, i could whip up a solid model in
> AutoCAD and send
the file to chris in a format WorkNC could translate.
>
>
Wayne
>
> P.S. I have a connection who is having output shafts and
x-fer case input
> shafts made for both versions of spline sizes if
anybody is interested. I
> think he has a few ready to ship.
Barry E. King wrote:
snip
> I am wondering though if there is some design change that could
be
> implemented to make the system last a little longer.
>
>
Anyone out there have the knowledge or contacts to analyze and suggest
>
design mods?
>
snip
Barry, et all;
These recent threads on Getrag are really encouraging and as Barry
suggests, improvement
in the parts would be ideal, rather than reproducing
parts with inherent design defects.
It appears that some Getrag parts are
already already available on the east coast, (as
per a relatively recent post
here) so it seems that it will be only a matter of time
before this
availability opens up. However, improved North American parts would be
ideal
as compared to the imported and design deficient German items. It is
actually hard to
believe that German engineering is the Achilles Heel in our
cars, whereas that country
is usually noted for superior automotive
workmanship. With North American produced
transfer cases, and output shafts
now available as per another recent posting here, it
seems only a matter of
time before local technology ( this list seems to almost have it
in hand)
will have a better transmission upgrade available. My hat is off to you
guys.
Best
Darc
I think the problem is rooted in the fact that the gearboxes for these
300
HP cars is tiny. Tiny gears, tiny syncros, tiny shafts, tiny
bearings.
Look around at the US-made 300 HP cars (what's left of the
breed). Look at
the transmissions on some of the late 60/early 70's
muscle cars! They're
BIG! Bigger transmissions mean bigger
internal parts that can withstand the
abuse.
Am I wrong on this?
-Bob
> However, improved North American parts would be ideal
> as
compared to the imported and design deficient German items. It
> is
actually hard to believe that German engineering is the Achilles
> Heel in
our cars, whereas that country is usually noted for
> superior automotive
workmanship.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Jan 22 20:34:26 1999
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Date:
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From: Ron Thompson <
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To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.comSubject:
Re: Team3S: Another Question Concerning "Well that was
fun..."
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e5f37c43.36a887fe@aol.com>
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Oh boy, Think about a gyroscope. I have a 71
Triumph Boneville and a 81
Yamaha 750 Seca. the
Boneville's engine rotation is counter
clockwise
front thr right side of the bike(anti clockwise in
the british
manual)
and the Yamaha is clockwise rotation. The Bonnie
will do wheelies
at command but the Yamaha will
only light up the tire. Transfer this to a
car, if
in line, engine torque would tranfer weight to the
right front
counter acting torque steer. A trans
verse mount will throw torque forward in
the same
direction as the tire rotation. this will increase
the effects of
torque steer.
> > and little to no flywheel inertia to smooth out
> > the
transition from power to no power. It's like
> > pulling on the
e-brake.
>
> Interesting, is there way you could modify your car to
smooth that out. An aluminum
> flywheel, with less weight, would
that allow better engine brake transitions? Usually
> some heal-toe
action eliminates this problem, but my Vr4 kind of jerky even just around town
from that.
The lighter the flywheel the worst the tranistion.
It will
snap harder. Want to test what you have
??? Rev the engine. if the rev's come
down quick,
your flywheel is light and or your compression is
higher. If
it settles to idle slow, you have a
heavy flywheel, for smoothness and
comfort.
>
> > it's either a power slide or it wheelies and
you
> > ride the rear tire out of the turn. Now what does
> >
this have to do with a car and the price of eggs
> > in Albany?
>
> At school our instructor told us about the half day new-drivers
school. He tells them that if they start spinning to gun it.
Yeah, you will see NASCAR drivers do this too. The
theory is it is
better to power out or spin out
than step off and have the car snap
around.
Chances are you can counter steer out of a slide
with power on,
but a snap back into a fish tail
causes panic and recovery is doubtful.
Of course it is handy to know we have a little
more weight
than the average sports car,
This works for and against us. Inertia works
strange ways when we get
into trouble. Extra
weight is harder to fight and accentuates the
bad
charactoristics of loosing control. I knew soon
after I bought my 93SL
that I had a heavier car
than my Eclipse right away. Tossing it
through
traffic and recovery would be another story. Then
you guys gave me
the blood lust for more , and I
had to get me a VR4. No regrets. But I think
I may
go back to school, if for nothing esle, than to
have a place to play
and get a handle on the
beast.
Bob Fontana wrote:
> I think the problem is rooted in the fact that the gearboxes for these
300
> HP cars is tiny. Tiny gears, tiny syncros, tiny shafts, tiny
bearings.
> Look around at the US-made 300 HP cars (what's left of the
breed). Look at
> the transmissions on some of the late 60/early
70's muscle cars! They're
> BIG! Bigger transmissions mean
bigger internal parts that can withstand the
> abuse.
>
> Am I
wrong on this?
>
I'm not really sure Bob...sounds reasonable... but then the 300 HP engines
of that same
era were bigger as well, along with the cars, and in many of the
those cases, bigger was
not better. Perhaps the problem is the material used
( I believe Jack indicated in the
past that the synchros were brass coated
rather than brass. Maybe this was a money
saving invention rather than
improved technology?) My feeling is that improved design in
problem areas,
coupled with stronger material, will solve the problem. Solving the
problem
is something that Getrag, obviously doesn't want to deal with, and
(hurrah)
something some talented Team members have perceived as a
challenge.
Best
Darc
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Jan 22 20:57:30 1999
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From:
"james berry" <
fastmax@home.com>
To: "team
3si" <
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Team3S: to shockproof or not to shockproof
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 20:47:54
-0700
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I purchased a 93 stealth with 35K miles, and prior to any performance
=
mods I'm going to replace all [ well maybe all ] fluids to establish a
=
baseline for my tenure as owner [ I'd hate to ever see one of these cars
=
relegated to the scrap heap]. The fluids of choice seem to be Redline
=
and I would like to know if I should go to the shockproof heavy ???????
=
Mods will be street conservative ---- 15 pounds boost, borla ex, FIPC
=
filter,springs,shocks & tires [maybe a down pipe & hi flow cat
].Usage =
will be street bully and some small amount of track time [willow
springs =
--Laguna seca].
PS: Gtech accelerometer --- any comments as to accuracy [ 1/4 milers
=
should have some good feedback]
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE4648.7C4A8240
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HTML//EN">
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<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1
=
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4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
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<BODY
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I
purchased a 93 stealth with 35K =
miles, and=20
prior to any performance
mods I'm going to replace all [ well maybe all =
] fluids=20
to establish
a baseline for my tenure as owner [ I'd hate to ever see =
one of=20
these
cars relegated to the scrap heap]. The fluids of choice seem to be
=
Redline=20
and I would like to know if I should go to the shockproof
heavy ??????? =
Mods=20
will be street conservative ---- 15
pounds boost, borla ex, FIPC=20
filter,springs,shocks & tires [maybe
a down pipe & hi flow cat =
].Usage=20
will be street bully and
some small amount of track time [willow springs =
--Laguna seca].</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#000000
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#000000 size=3D2>PS: Gtech accelerometer --- any =
comments as
to=20
accuracy [ 1/4 milers should have some good
feedback]</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#000000
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>
=
Jim [<A=20
href=3D"mailto:fastmax@home.com">
fastmax@home.com</A> &n=
bsp; =20
93
" arrest me red"
stealth</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE4648.7C4A8240--
When I was at the tranny shop, I looked at synchros from other
domestic
trannys. They were 50% bigger and also used brass
coating. The granules of
material were more coarse on the domestic
synchros.
-Bob
> not better. Perhaps the problem is the material used ( I
believe
> Jack indicated in the
> past that the synchros were brass
coated rather than brass. Maybe
> this was a money
> saving
invention rather than improved technology?) My feeling is
> that improved
design in
> problem areas, coupled with stronger material, will solve
the
> problem.
Jim;
Do not use Redline in the tranny. Apparently it's hard on the
synchros.
Perhaps Bob, Barry, Jack or Errin (You out there Errin) can advise
on
the best tranny fluid. Redline in the rest, has been advised by
the
best. : )
Best
Darc
james berry wrote:
> I purchased a 93 stealth with 35K miles, and prior to any
performance
> mods I'm going to replace all [ well maybe all ] fluids to
establish a
> baseline for my tenure as owner [ I'd hate to ever see one
of these
> cars relegated to the scrap heap]. The fluids of choice seem to
be
> Redline and I would like to know if I should go to the
shockproof
> heavy ??????? Mods will be street conservative ---- 15
pounds boost,
> borla ex, FIPC filter,springs,shocks & tires [maybe a
down pipe & hi
> flow cat ].Usage will be street bully and some small
amount of track
> time [willow springs --Laguna seca]. PS: Gtech
accelerometer --- any
> comments as to accuracy [ 1/4 milers should have
some good
>
feedback]
Jim [
fastmax@home.com
93 " arrest me
> red" stealth
Bob Fontana wrote:
> When I was at the tranny shop, I looked at synchros from other
domestic
> trannys. They were 50% bigger and also used brass
coating. The granules of
> material were more coarse on the domestic
synchros.
>
Hmmm...so you have a clear fix on the problem it sounds like...and as an
ancient saying
notes: "He who clearly sees the question, already knows
the answer...it is inherent
within question". How do you see the
fix then? Titanium? I doubt a completely
redesigned gearbox will ever fit the
limited space. Your thoughts??
Best
Darc
Hi Team;
I just received a private e-mail from one of the more exhaulted members of
our
group. He comments on us all in a rather oblique way, and at the
same time,
modestly comments about himself. I won't devulge his
identity, but I thought
I'd share his comment with you.
<snip>
> Personally I do not consider being on the list a right but rather
a
> privilege. To others who don't believe it, my opinion is observe
that or
> move on.
>
>
Best (to you all)
Darc
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Jan 23 04:33:45 1999
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From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
To: <
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: to shockproof or not to shockproof
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999
05:34:12 -0700
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I used to think it didn't matter about Redline in the tranny. I used
to use
BG Synchroshfift. It was an improvement over whatever Getrag or
Mitsu puts
in there from the factory but still IMO less than
satisfactory. I then
switched to Redline MTL. I found an
improvement in shifting but now I am
getting a crunchy 1-2 upshift on a 6
speed tranny that is a little over a
year old.
I cannot 100% attribute this to the tranny fluid at this time since
the
clutch was on its way out, so I am hoping the new clutch magically makes
the
problem go away. I am suspicous and won't know until it all goes
back
together at the end of the month.
When I drained the fluid at the time I yanked the engine there was quite
a
bit of metal on the drain plug magnet. I have seen this before in
otherwise
healthy transmissions - loosing metal from normal wear and tear is
expected
with a brand new transmission - but it is never nice to see and gets
you
wondering. I do not think MTL will be going back in. Either
MT-90 or BG
this time. Maybe the latter. Dunno yet.
Heavy duty shockproof is definitely the way to go in the transfer
case.
When I drained the transfer case the last time the fluid that came
out
looked perfect and my transfer case shows no signs of wear or abuse
even
having to withstand almost double the intended factory power output and
my
right foot.
When I raced GP bikes I ran ATF in the transmission case and dumped
it
between races. I would have ran water if I could. A nearly dry
tranny
works great if you can keep it cool and power losses are
significantly
reduced.
Regards,
Barry
'94 VR4
> -----Original Message-----
> Jim;
>
> Do not use
Redline in the tranny. Apparently it's hard on the synchros.
> Perhaps
Bob, Barry, Jack or Errin (You out there Errin) can advise on
> the best
tranny fluid. Redline in the rest, has been advised by the
> best. :
)
>
> Best
>
> Darc
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Jan 23 05:19:04 1999
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From:
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To: <
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Subject:
Re: Team3S: getrag parts
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 08:21:59
-0500
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Can someone post a series of good digital pics of the syncros, mating
gears,
etc.
I suspect that any physical design changes would require some
attention to
mating parts also. A stouter, harder, etc. synchro might
translate the
falure to some other component. BTW if the parts are
brass in color, they
are most likely bronze which comes in a wide variety of
metalurgical
charactaristic flavors.
One other alternative is if back door access to the sychros were
available
again, it would likely be cheaper to simply stock pile
synchros.
P.S. Thanks Paul Klusman for a good thread!
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Jan 23 13:27:58 1999
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From: "Bill" <
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To:
<
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: to shockproof or not to shockproof
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999
13:29:59 -0800
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>switched to Redline MTL. I found an improvement in shifting but
now I am
getting a crunchy 1-2 upshift on a 6 speed tranny that is a little
over a
Switched from factory to Mobil-1 Synthetic and most of the stiffness
went
away, but is now coming back about 8 months later...
>When I drained the fluid at the time I yanked the engine there was
quite a
bit of metal on the drain plug >magnet. I have seen this
before in
otherwise healthy .
This is why I changed mine when factory fluid showed quite a bit of
metal
after 20k miles...
-Bill
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Jan 23 13:36:09 1999
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From: "Jose Soriano"
<
amahoser@linkline.com>
To:
<
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Attempted Theft!
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 13:46:32
-0800
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Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
About midnight a couple of nights ago, I was at home having a "nic
fit" and
decided to go and buy some cigarrettes. I caught two guy
breaking into my
Stealth RT Turbo. I chased them down the block but they got
away. All that
was stolen was my faceplate. I got lucky. WHY DIDN'T THE
FACTORY ALARM WORK?
It seemed that they pryed my door handle assembly out to
work on the lock. I
have the top of the line Clarion CD player with motorized
faceplate,
Mc'Intosh amp, Orion Amp, DSP/EQ/crossover unit, changer, custom
box with 4
eights (isobaric and ported), digital fiber optic cables, and
Boston Pro and
Mc'Intosh speakers. I should feel luck they only got my
faceplate ($200 to
replace plus about $70 for the door handle assembly).
Anyways I pulled my
system out of the car since I can't listen to it without
the faceplate
anyways. I cleared out my garage today (major task since
it has been used
for storage of miscellanious stuff plus five motorcycles)
and the car is
gonna live in there from now on. Geez, you work your ass off
for nice stuff
and it almost seems not worth it to own nice stuff! I tested
the alarm by
arming it and unlocking it from the inside and it worked! I
don't know why
it didn't work that night ...... any clues?
I'm off to go buy an aftermarket alarm!
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Jan 23 13:48:30 1999
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From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
To: <
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Attempted Theft!
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 14:49:04
-0700
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Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Not that this is much help, but the factory alarm in my '94 VR4 was kind
of
flakey too. It always armed but didn't always go off, even when
being
rather agressive about forcing it to do so. Other times it
behaved as one
might expect. *shrug*
My aftermarket alarm was pretty much foolproof until it started acting
up
and had to be disabled since noone, including the manufacturer, has
been
able to diagnose the problem. It was almost too well
installed. You have
to remove the dash and front fenders to get at it
which means it would be
extremely difficult to disable outside the car in a
parking lot, but it sure
makes it a PITA when trying to figure out what is
wrong with it.
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
<snipped>
> I tested the alarm by
> arming it and unlocking it from the
inside and it worked! I don't know why
> it didn't work that night ......
any clues?
>
> I'm off to go buy an aftermarket
alarm!
>
> Jose Soriano
>
Amahoser@Linkline.com
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Jan 23 15:42:45 1999
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From:
Brian Danley <
bcdmad@concentric.net>
To:
"
'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'"
<
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Admin note
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 17:37:52
-0500
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I'm sorry guy's If I spoke out of line recently. This is a Admin
issue and
I will leave it to the Admins in the future (they have done a
great job) .
I don't get worked up easy, but dislike any comments with
demeaning
context towards any member of the list. Lets keep this list as it
is..
awesome... no flames, just good ideas and experiences.
Thanks,
Brian Danley AKA Gammara
#0007
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Jan 23 16:04:10
1999
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Attempted Theft!
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I wish I had your luck I lost 5 grand in audio
equipment 8(
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Jan 23 20:37:16
1999
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Subject:
Team3S: Getrag parts summation/suggestions
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Hi Group;
Here's a summation on Getrag parts discussion to
date
1.) Dave T. (rtrent@nlci.com) hopefully will have a series
of good
photos scanned to him for consideration in his project: to
refabricate
and resign the flawed parts for our trannies, here in good old
North
America. Brad ( bbedell@texas.net ) has indicated he can
supply his
complete set of OE replacement synchros and hubs for this
R&D project
study--but requires them back. Generosity doesn't get much
better than
this.
2) Max (NYMaxxNY@AOL.COM) indicated
that he had OE Getrag parts,
and that they were available (backdoor?) :
bearings and seals for 5/6
speeds and new 18/25 spine output shafts
(made in Italy) as well as.
This seems to be a startling breakthrough,
whereas both Mitsu and
Chrysler have indicated that Getrag parts were not
available, and
complete trannies had to be purchased (or swapped out) instead
of local
rebuilds with supplied parts. Getrag also has indicated a reluctance
to
avail parts and only Jack T. (xwing@execpc.com) has been
successful in
behind the scenes negotiating with them, and a group
acquisition of
synchros was obtained through him as an unofficial Getrag
favour. That
was a one time affair and essentially a favour by an unnamed
individual
to Jack. Getrag company policy, was still, at last note, not to
supply
replacement parts to the public or dealers. Letters from both
Bob
Fontana (bfontana@securitytechnologies.com)
and Jack T (see e-mail
address above) have been posted to group to keep us
apprised of
developements in this area.
An address/phone/e-mail and price list might be helpful
for the
prementioned post by Max..
3) Expert knowledge of the faulty areas in the trannies
is likely
available from Jack T. , Bob F., and others who have taken
apart,
examined, and rebuilt the darn things. Brain storming with them
would
likely be of benifit to any or all who want to redesign/replace parts
as
a small enterprize. This list has proven to be a great Think Tank
and
forum for those talented individiauls who are tackling this problem
and
further input is welcomed and encouraged.
5) Paul Klusman (Klusmanp@aol.com), since you seem to have
incited added
interest in this topic of recent, why not contact all team
members noted
herein (and obviously others) and form a Think Tank/R&D
subgroup, and
get back to us intermittenly with updates that involve
offline
discussion?. This is a ball not worth dropping.
Best
Darc
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Jan 24 04:18:51
1999
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From:
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To: <bbedell@texas.net>
Cc:
"3000/Stealth Technical List" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Synchros
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 07:21:42 -0500
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Brad,
Paul Klusman and myself both work for the same
independent engineering firm
in Lafayette IN. (Purdue Univ.), we focus
primarily on heavy industrial
mechanical equipment so I can't say we would be
the most qualified, but if
no one else shows interest we would be happy to
study the parts in question
and investigate alternatives. I can also
take and post digital pics. If
you can cover shipping here, we will
cover shipping back.
My personal feeling is that it's unlikely we would be
able to come up with a
cost effective alternative to the factory parts given
what I assume to be
few requests if we were to line up a custom fabrication
source. I still
maintain that Jack T. is our best resource if he were
able to gain access to
the factory parts. None the less, I can appreciate the
interest and would
welcome the opportunity to assist.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Jan 24 09:13:31
1999
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Team3S: Admin announcement
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The administrative function of Team 3S feels obliged to
post that an
individual (herein un-named) has been banned from the list for
blatantly
violating our stated and implied rules of conduct. We take no
great
pleasure in this action, or in posting such an announcement, but we
felt
it should clear up some of the queries we have received. This was
a
regretful but united decision by all the admin, and it is line with
the
spirit of conduct we wish to maintain in Team 3S. We feel action
like
this, although regretful, will insure the quality of the forum you,
and
we, have come to expect in this peerless gathering of 3S
enthusiasts.
Darcy, admin...for all of the admin.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Jan 24 12:33:54
1999
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From:
Kevin Clark <Kevin.Clark@hnz.co.nz>
To:
"'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Attempted Theft!
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 21:38:05
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> I'm off to go buy an aftermarket
alarm!
Basically the best thing is to hide as much as
possible.
If there is something that they can see and get at quickly
they
will just smash and grab (alarm or not!).
If you are going to put any "serious" gear in
your vehicle
then I would suggest putting in a good aftermarket
alarm.
There are many out there that have radar zones for a
very
reasonable price. I am not too sure what companies are
offering
at the moment, but IMO any dual radar system (to
protect as well as warn off)
with a battery backup siren
should be more than enough to protect most
vehicles.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Jan 24 20:32:03
1999
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From: "Stealth"
<cirrus@shore.intercom.net>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Team3S: HKS EVC-II at auction
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:31:15
-0500
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Hi!
I've put my old HKS EVC-II up for auction on
eBay.
As far as I know, it works fine; I replaced it after my
accident with the
Apexi AVC-R mounted in the center console instead of under
the dash.
This is the one that everyone wants because apparently
there are some DIP
switches in it that can be reset for some serious
performance gains, not in
the documentation. Ask Bob Fontana about
that.
The top part of the case is cracked, and repaired with
glue and duct tape,
as my knee hit it really hard in the accident. Needless
to say, I do not
recommend putting anything under the dash where this was
mounted! And the
power button is missing. But once it is installed, you
really can't tell
what that part looks like.
The wiring is with it, you can see in the
photograph.
I set the minimum bid to only $10.00, so go get it
while it's there!
Robyn
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Jan 24 20:45:48
1999
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Message-ID: <36ABF811.8BC48790@earthlink.net>
Date:
Sun, 24 Jan 1999 23:50:25 -0500
From: Ron Thompson <rtetetet@earthlink.net>
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Re: Team3S: Re: Well that was fun...
References:
<00ea01be44f1$f1314e20$27d752a6@rtr> <36A6B8C4.25171E9B@earthlink.net>
<36A6CA7F.45F9728B@bc.sympatico.ca>
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You didn't by chance keep this post did you?
I'm
afraid I went a little delete happy and killed it
and someone is
begging to read it. Thanks for the
cudo's, I thought it might be time to
remind
ourselves we drive something that that can please
and bite equally.
Good news is I think Bob Rand
decided to sign up for a school, Panoz @
Road
Atlanta. Thought you would appreciate my story
since I got a 'little'
strong on the old starnet
list. Humble pie is best served to one's
self.
Still have my sword though, but secured.
Happy motoring,
ron
wce@bc.sympatico.ca wrote:
>
> Ehhhh...loved the description...damned near poetry...felt like I was
there instead of
> you. In fact, I'm sure it was me.
>
> We
all need this kind of graphic reminder so we don't become too comfortable with
our
> shiny rides. They look and handle super...but there are times when
they/we can scare the
> begezzers outa ourselves. Complacency is best
reserved for the long snooze. Thanks again
> for the super verbal
graphics. The color is just creeping back into my knuckles ; )
>
>
Best
>
> Darc
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
Sorry wrong reply to. Didn't look before I sent.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Jan 24 21:12:34
1999
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I just sent the following letter to Ligenfelter
Engineering (they upgrade
Corvettes, Camaros, TAs, etc.). I stumbled upon
their website through a link
from Hurst Shifter website. I got all excited
when I saw an ad for a '97
Camaro Z-28 SS with a HURST 6 speed. I wasn't sure
what equipment Hurst made -
it doesn't look like they make any transmission
components, just the gearshift
handle for both automatic and manual
trannys.
Anyway, I think we ought to send letters like this one
out to all the
performance specialty shops out there (lets be organized about
this - compile
a list of appropriate companies/individuals and send each of
them ONE letter
from our group)
Here is the letter I sent:
Dear sirs,
I am searching for a manufacturer of transmission
components (oem or
aftermarket). I am a member of a car enthusiasts club who
trade technical
information about the Mitsubishi 3000GT and the Dodge Stealth
via the
internet.
One problem area of our cars is the synchros in the 5
and 6 speed manual
transaxles. They tend to wear out, and unfortunately, the
oem refuses to
release individual parts for transmission repair/rebuild.
Instead, anyone who
owns one of these cars must swap out the worn
transmission for a completely
new unit at considerable cost.
After failing to get any cooperation with the
transmission manufacturer
(Getrag in Germany) or Mitsubishi, we are now
looking for a domestic
transmission manufacturer who might be able to make
and sell copies of the
synchros. We are hoping to develop a set of prints for
the needed parts, or we
may supply components from a good transmission for
duplication.
As an automotive performance company, I'm hoping you
will know someone who can
help us. Any suggestions would be greatly
appreciated.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Jan 24 21:19:30
1999
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Ok I just went back to the Hurst website and found
their email address. I sent
the same letter as described in my last post. At
this point our "list"
includes the following:
Ligenfelter
Hurst
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Jan 24 21:28:44
1999
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Paul;
You symbolize what this Team is really all about. Good
on Ya! I will try to restrain
myself from too much of a profile from now on,
and let you good guys do what you do
best. I just had note, however, your use
of "our", which should give everyone who
feels the same
way, a shit eatin smile!! I hope that your/our list grows in the
days
ahead, and that some manufacturer somewhere is affected by the
enthusiasum of our Team
spirit .
Best
Darc
> Ok I just went back to the Hurst website and found
their email address. I sent
> the same letter as described in my last
post. At this point our "list"
> includes the
following:
>
> Ligenfelter
> Hurst
>
>
Paul
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Jan 24 23:51:59
1999
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From: "Jose Soriano"
<amahoser@linkline.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Attempted Theft!.... bought an alarm...
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999
00:03:37 -0800
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Well I picked up an alarm. I decided to get the high
end Viper (PC 800SHF).
I was comtemplating letting the shop do the install or
if I should tackle it
myself. Well since I'm not afraid or wiring and since I
wanted to know how
the alarm was wired, I decided to do it myself. Anyways I
started out on the
project late Sunday afternoon and I knew I wouldn't finish
by the end of
daylight, but I wanted to get the preliminary wiring done. As I
had the
center console apart, I noticed a HUGE space behind the radio.
Thinking
about what I could do with that space, a light went of in my head.
How about
adding a SECOND siren INSIDE the car! That would be really loud
inside the
car and (hopefully) make the thief decide to leave. I'm not sure
if the
alarm circuitry can handle the load of two, maybe three sirens so I
will add
a relay. Also, another brainstorm of mine is to add switches in the
door
handle that will trigger the alarm if somone tries the handle. Now, my
car
has a turbo timer. I need to bypass the shock sensor untill the turbo
timer
finishes it's countdown..... hmmm, I suppose I need to use relays to
do
that. I don't have the installation diagram for my turbo timer. Does
anyone
have one? I need to know the color code. Its a Greddy Turbo Timer.
Also, for
anyone who has an aftermarket alarm, where did they put the siren?
The only
place under the hood that I could find was underneath the fuse/relay
box in
front of the air filter. Does anyone know of another location? I want
two
sirens under the hood so if they disable one, another one is still
going.
I'm also going to add the pager option so the next time someone messes
with
my car, I'll be better prepared. Geez after reading this I feel like
I'm
being overly paranoid, but considering that someone almost got away with
my
sound system, I feel that any step that I can take will be worth
it.
Anyone have any other suggestions on how I can improve
on the alarm?
Thanks
Jose Soriano
Amahoser@Linkline.com
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Jan 25 04:11:53
1999
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From: "Bob Rand" <rtr@vnet.net>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Attempted Theft!.... bought an alarm...
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999
07:16:09 -0500
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Jose,
Sounds like the only thing left is the remote
detonation unit. :)
Just in case they get away, press button, blamo - car
thiefs blown to bits.
Bob
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Jan 25 05:22:58
1999
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Message-ID: <36AC7076.D9ED82CE@primary.net>
Date:
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From: Bill Davis <b-davis@primary.net>
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Subject:
Team3S: POTHOLES!!!
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Well Saturday, around noon, I was driving I-40
Eastbound, in St. Louis,
around 141 Mason Rd. area,(St. Louis guys know
where), far left lane.
I was doing about 60, because the road was wet from
the abnormal
snow we had that morning. I hit this series of potholes, almost
lost
control of my car, damn near threw me into the next lane.
All of a sudden my ECS light starts flashing, I pull
over to have a
look.
My left front wheel, and tire are completely
destroyed, my left rear
wheel
is damaged, and apparently my left front
strut is damaged.
I have called the highway dept. to find out if they
will pay to have the
car
repaired. Does anyone know anything about these
type of issues?
On Saturday I called the St Louis Co. dept of trans, and they
told me
if the road was one that they maintain, that they do indeed pay for
the
damage.
Unfortunately they dont maintain I-40.
Advice, information, on any similar experiences would
be much
appreciated.
If anyone has one 6 spoke 18" chrome rim for
sale, I suppose I may be
in the
market by this afternoon. I have little
faith in the state taking
responsibility for this.
Bill Davis Lame 95 VR-4
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Jan 25 05:26:12
1999
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Team3S: POTHOLES!!!!
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Well Saturday, around noon, I was driving I-40
Eastbound, in St. Louis,
around 141 Mason Rd. area,(St. Louis guys know
where), far left lane.
I was doing about 60, because the road was wet from
the abnormal
snow we had that morning. I hit this series of potholes, almost
lost
control of my car, damn near threw me into the next lane.
All of a sudden my ECS light starts flashing, I pull
over to have a
look.
My left front wheel, and tire are completely
destroyed, my left rear
wheel
is damaged, and apparently my left front
strut is damaged.
I have called the highway dept. to find out if they
will pay to have the
car
repaired. Does anyone know anything about these
type of issues?
On Saturday I called the St Louis Co. dept of trans, and they
told me
if the road was one that they maintain, that they do indeed pay for
the
damage.
Unfortunately they dont maintain I-40.
Advice, information, on any similar experiences would
be much
appreciated.
If anyone has one 6 spoke 18" chrome rim for
sale, I suppose I may be
in the
market by this afternoon. I have little
faith in the state taking
responsibility for this.
Bill Davis Lame 95 VR-4
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Jan 25 05:38:36
1999
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From: "Oskar" <swede@pclink.com>
To: "Team
3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Team3S: No pre-cats, still using main cat
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 07:32:54
-0600
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Is there anyone out there who has gutted the pre-cats
and is running =
with a maincat? If so, for how long have you had this
setup.
It seems that the common belief is that this *should*
deteriorate the =
main cat. Since I want to get rid of the pre-cats but
still use a =
hi-flow cat, I posed this question to a few
vendors/manufacturers. =
Mostly I was told this would NOT present a
problem. This from =
representatives at both ATR and IMP as well as a
few of our vendors. =
The only hesitation came from Random Technologies
where I was told the =
main cat *might* be damaged if the car is running
rich, but otherwise =
should be fine.
Oskar,
'95 R/T TT
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3
HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1
=
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3
=
HTML//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"'
name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Is there anyone out there who has gutted the
pre-cats and is =
running with a=20
maincat? If so, for how long
have you had this
setup.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It seems
that the common belief is that this *should* deteriorate =
the
main=20
cat. Since I want to get rid of the pre-cats but still use
a =
hi-flow cat,=20
I posed this question to a few
vendors/manufacturers. Mostly I was =
told=20
this would NOT
present a problem. This from representatives at =
both
ATR=20
and IMP as well as a few of our vendors. The only hesitation
came =
from=20
Random Technologies where I was told the main cat *might*
be damaged if =
the car=20
is running rich, but <FONT
size=3D3>otherwise should be
=
fine.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#000000><FONT
size=3D3>Oskar,</FONT></FONT><FONT=20
size=3D3></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D3>'95 R/T
=
TT</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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From: "Bob Fontana" <bfontana@securitytechnologies.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: No pre-cats, still using main cat
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:07:33
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I haven't had that setup, but let me comment on this
subject. A
deterioration of the catalyst occurs when it comes in
contact with fuel-rich
exhaust. That's one of the reasons they put the
pre-cats there in the first
place. If you have a stock fuel setup,
i.e., no equipment that modifies
fuel delivery in any way, you might get away
with gutted pre-cats for years.
Changes that we make to our fuel systems are
NEVER tested to the same degree
that the OEM does, and therefore, we can
never predict how much unburned
fuel is passing through the main converter at
any time, especially during
warmup. Personally, I'd replace the main
with a test pipe (for off-road use
only).
-Bob
Is there anyone out there who has
gutted the pre-cats and is running
with a maincat? If so, for how long
have you had this setup.
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=
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<DIV><SPAN
class=3D260445513-25011999><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial
=
size=3D2>I=20
haven't had that setup, but let me comment on this
subject. A=20
deterioration of the catalyst occurs when it comes in
contact with =
fuel-rich=20
exhaust. That's one of the reasons
they put the pre-cats there in =
the=20
first place. <SPAN
class=3D260445513-25011999><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>If you have a stock fuel setup, i.e., no
equipment that =
modifies fuel=20
delivery in any way, you might get away
with gutted pre-cats for =
years. =20
Changes that we make to our
fuel systems are NEVER tested to the same =
degree=20
that the OEM does,
and therefore, we can never predict how much unburned =
fuel is=20
passing
through the main converter at any time, especially during
=
warmup. =20
Personally, I'd replace the main with a test pipe
(for off-road
use=20
only).</FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
class=3D260445513-25011999><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial
=
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D260445513-25011999><FONT
color=3D#0000ff
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
class=3D260445513-25011999><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial
=
size=3D2>-Bob</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
face=3D"Times New Roman"
size=3D2><BR><BR></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT:
#0000ff solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT:
=
5px">
<DIV>Is there anyone out there
who has gutted the pre-cats and is =
running=20
with a
maincat? If so, for how long have you had this
=
setup.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Jan 25 06:45:50
1999
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From: "Shattered Soul" <shadowphantom_1@hotmail.com>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Re: Team3S: POTHOLES!!!
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 06:45:44 PST
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Try living in Michigan. We are the pothole
capital of the world. Just
this morning on the radio they were talking
about a 10ft pothole.
There were like 10 cars on the side of the road with
thrashed tires and
wheels. Its actually quite embarrassing. One
a several reasons I am
ready to pack up and go somewhere else. And
they call us the motor
city!?!
Chris
>
>Well Saturday, around noon, I was driving
I-40 Eastbound, in St. Louis,
>around 141 Mason Rd. area,(St. Louis guys
know where), far left lane.
>I was doing about 60, because the road was
wet from the abnormal
>snow we had that morning. I hit this series of
potholes, almost lost
>control of my car, damn near threw me into the next
lane.
>
>All of a sudden my ECS light starts flashing, I pull over
to have a
>look.
>My left front wheel, and tire are completely
destroyed, my left rear
>wheel
>is damaged, and apparently my left
front strut is damaged.
>
>I have called the highway dept. to find
out if they will pay to have
the
>car
>repaired. Does anyone
know anything about these type of issues?
>On Saturday I called the St
Louis Co. dept of trans, and they told me
>if the road was one that they
maintain, that they do indeed pay for the
>damage.
>Unfortunately
they dont maintain I-40.
>
>Advice, information, on any similar
experiences would be much
>appreciated.
>
>If anyone has one 6
spoke 18" chrome rim for sale, I suppose I may be
>in
the
>market by this afternoon. I have little faith in the state
taking
>responsibility for this.
>
>Bill Davis Lame 95
VR-4
>
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Jan 25 06:51:06
1999
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I'm sorry for the multiple POTHOLES
message.
Apparently the dragnet server bounced it, and my server
re-sent
it.
Bill Davis LAME LIMPING 95 VR-4
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Jan 25 07:42:41
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If you are looking for volume. Alarm manufactures
used to make something
called a pain generator, (a cute little item mounted
inside the cockpit used
to blast the eardrums of the offending party).
However, as with most defense
items, remember that pain generator is not
discretionary, and you could fall
victim as easily as a thief.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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Subject:
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Gentlemen,
Friday, I posted to the list information on a Bosch,
headlight conversion
kit that allows H4 bulbs to be installed. I
personally went with a couple
of blue 100/80W halogens. Very
cool. Ridiculously bright. Anyway, I also
went for the snake-eyes
mod while doing the job. My vehicle is a 91 STT.
If you read the
modification instructions on the 3si.org page it "warns"
that the
fog lights my cease to operate while the head lights are on in
this
particular iteration of the Stealth. Well after performing the
operation
guess what has ceased to operate. My question for the group
is simply this;
Does anyone have a 1991 Dodge Stealth with the ability to
have the fog
lights operating at the same time as the headlights as well as
having
performed the snake-eyes modification? My vehicle sits in pieces
awaiting
knowledge from the group. If anyone has the solution to this
problem, could
you please post some brief instructions as to how to rectify
this problem.
Thanks,
mike
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Jan 25 08:37:12
1999
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From: "Eric Lotter" <elotter@hotmail.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
FogLight Wiring Mods Was:Re: Team3S: RE: Team3S Digest V1 #82
Date: Mon, 25
Jan 1999 08:37:06 PST
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This is "future 3si content" but it does have
some wiring tips to change
foglight behavior.
This is a modification to allow the fog lights be
operational while the
headlights are off or on high beam, or both, depending
on the year of
the vehicle.
Please do not attempt these mods if you are
unfamiliar with basic
wiring.(stripping, crimping, etc.) Or you are not
comfortable with
cutting and splicing you're wiring harness.
When
performing these mods, use real connectors. DO NOT "twist and
tape".
Other than basic hand tools, you will need a wire stripper,
cutter,
crimper, some crimp on connectors, and/or wire nuts.
91 model is
different than all others, be sure you do the correct mod
for you're vehicle
year.
NOTE: Always dis-connect battery before doing
anything with the wiring.
MOD 1, 91 YEAR MODEL ONLY - The fog lights will remain
illuminated when
high beams are on.
1. Locate the fuse box near the air filter - gain
access to the
underside of the fuse box by removing the 3 bolts that hold it
in place.
2. Remove the lower cover by lightly prying out the
clips while pulling
the cover out of the way.
3. Locate the fog light relay - it is the 3rd relay
from the front of
the box. (Top cover of box has diagram)
4. Cut the red/white wire leading to the fog light
relay socket as far
away from the socket as possible, but leaving enough
slack on the
harness side to re-connect it if you decide to go back to
stock.
5. Connect the relay socket side of the wire to a good
ground. Cap off
the harness side of the wire with a wire nut, or butt
connector.
6. Replace the lower cover of the box, and re-install
the box with the 3
bolts.
That concludes phase 1. You're fog lights will now work
with high beams.
MOD 2, 91 YEAR MODEL ONLY - Fog lights will function
with headlights off
(parking lights on)
1. Remove the instrument cluster bezel (black piece
which houses the
fog/pop-up switch and the ecs/rear defogger switch) by
removing 2
screws. Dis-connect the 2 switch connectors.
2. On the harness connector that goes to the
fog/pop-up switch, cut the
red wire with the blue stripe (NOT the blue wire
with red stripe) at a
point where both ends will be accessible. This wire is
the one in the
top corner of the connector.
3. Connect the switch side of the wire to a 12v source
controlled by the
tail lights. Cap off the harness side with a wire nut, or
butt
connector.
4. re-connect the harnesses to the switches and replace
the bezel.
Note: High beam will still disable the fog lights,
unless both mod 1 and
mod 2 are done.
MOD 3, 92-97 YEAR MODEL ONLY - The fog lights will
remain illuminated
when high beams are on.
1. Remove the instrument cluster bezel (black piece
which houses the
fog/pop-up switch and the ecs/rear defogger switch) by
removing 2
screws. Dis-connect the 2 switch connectors.
2. On the harness connector that goes to the
fog/pop-up switch, cut the
red wire with the white stripe at a point where
both ends will be
accessible.
3. Connect the switch side of the wire to a good
ground. Cap off the
harness side with a wire nut, or butt
connector.
4. re-connect the harnesses to the switches and replace
the bezel.
NOTE: On the 92-97 year models, I have not yet figured
out how to
duplicate mod 2 above. (foglights on without
headlights)
All three of the modifications will allow the fog light
switch to
function properly. (you can still turn off the fog lights
completly)
Good luck, and good lighting!!
. My question for the group is simply
this;
>Does anyone have a 1991 Dodge Stealth with the ability to have the
fog
>lights operating at the same time as the headlights as well as
having
>performed the snake-eyes modification? My vehicle sits in
pieces
awaiting
>knowledge from the group. If anyone has the
solution to this problem,
could
>you please post some brief
instructions as to how to rectify this
problem.
>
>Thanks,
>
>mike
>
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Jan 25 08:57:23
1999
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From: "Shattered Soul" <shadowphantom_1@hotmail.com>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Re: Team3S: .... bought an alarm...
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:57:17
PST
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There is also something out there called the
auto-taser. Nothing like
50,000 volts. Then you have up to a
half hour to find them laying there
helpless to beat the living hell out of
them. Now that is my kind of
alarm. Or you can get what they
have in South Africa to curb car
jacking. Its a flame thrower that
shoots liquid petroleum up to 8 feet
from the both sides of the car.
Of course its not legal over here. But
hey dead man can't
talk.
Chris
>
>If you are looking for volume. Alarm
manufactures used to make
something
>called a pain generator, (a cute
little item mounted inside the cockpit
used
>to blast the eardrums of
the offending party). However, as with most
defense
>items,
remember that pain generator is not discretionary, and you could
fall
>victim as easily as a thief.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Jan 25 10:19:18
1999
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From: "Jose Soriano"
<amahoser@linkline.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Auto Taser!
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:31:07
-0800
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>There is also something out there called the
auto-taser. Nothing like
>50,000 volts........
Really?.... Is
that legal? And where can I get it!
>Or you can get what they have in South Africa
to curb car
>jacking. Its a flame thrower that shoots liquid
petroleum up to 8 feet
>from the both sides of the car. Of course
its not legal over here......
hehee... I remeber the story... I work on the TV show
"Extra" and we ran
that story last
week.
How about when an intruder enters the vehicle,
visible yellow smoke
starts pouring out of the air vents. It will be harmless
of course, but it
will scare the sh*t out of him!
BTW, that pain generator idea on a
previous post is basically what I had
in mind but I figure a full on siren
would be louder!
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Jan 25 11:15:12
1999
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From: "Shattered Soul" <shadowphantom_1@hotmail.com>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Re: Auto Taser!
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:15:04
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>Really?.... Is that legal? And where can I get
it!
Here is the website for the AUTO TASER. I think the 1
1/2" arc is enough
to scare someone away. It is legal too!
Chris
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Jan 25 12:29:31
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Please insure that your bells and whistles ( color,
font, etc) are
turned off before posting to group. It plays havoc with
our setup. ..
ie. send in plain text only. I know, I know, I like to
use them too,
but it really does create too much of a problem for
us.
Thanks
Darc
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Jan 25 13:41:09
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From: Mike Chapleski <mike.chapleski@ibm.net>
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Subject:
Team3S: EGT Temperatures
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I installed an Apexi EGT gauge on my
'95 Stealth RT TT this
weekend. Took a lot longer than I thought.
This was due to two bolts
breaking which meant I had to totally remove the
front turbo. I
installed it in the front exhaust manifold about an inch
before the
turbo. I figured this is will give me the most accurate
readings of the
gas coming out of the front bank. Only thing I did not
like about it
was the large fitting, which I think decreased the outlet area
by about
10 percent.
What is the maximum temp I should
see? I played with it a little
tonight on the drive home from work, and
got it to hit 950-975 deg. C
(1742-1787 F). I was going about 120 MPH
at the time with 14 psi of
boost. I had to slow down because of
traffic, but it was still climbing
before I let off the gas. This seems
very high to me.
With no load on the turbos, just cruising down the
highway, the temp was
between 700-800 deg. C (1292-1472 F).
Overall, I think these numbers are very high.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Mike 0018
'95 Stealth RT TT
Those look pretty normal, given where you have the
probe. Depending on your
A/F ratio and ambient air temps (50s or
cooler), you can see 1700F+ easily.
Just don't keep it there. I
wouldn't necessarily adjust the A/F ratio to
achieve lower EGT temps in 4th
or 5th. Instead, you're safer lowering the
boost level so that the
temps are no more than 1450F at WOT. Now, in 1st,
2nd and 3rd, because
of the short duration, A/F ratio can be adjusted to
peak at 1700F+ but you
had better lift off the throttle if you see it climb
past that!
-Bob
> With no load on the turbos, just cruising down the
highway, the temp was
> between 700-800 deg. C (1292-1472
F).
>
> Overall, I think these numbers are very high.
Thoughts?
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Jan 25 15:21:06
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Mike Chapleski wrote:
> EGT gauge in front
manifold an inch before turbo
> hit 950-975 deg C (1742-1787F) going 120
MPH 14 psi boost; was still climbing
> before I let off gas. No load
cruising highway temp 700-800C (1292-1472F)
> Mike '95 Stealth RT
TT
That is what I see. Good to see others there, I
have been ashamed of my
high EGT's in the past, but now we can
commiserate! I have seen 1850F
at DSM vs 3S Drag Event in Texas, 11/96,
when I had 550cc inj and
15G's. I regularly see it go over 1700, to
1750 or so and climbing
slower, on accel runs.
This can be two things...
1) too lean.
Get rich. Buy bigger injectors/an AFC. Or, sit tight,
stare at
wall, and keep repeating "LEAN IS MEAN"...
2) very retarded
timing: your gas hasn't enough octane for the boost
you are running-->you
are detonating--> knock sensor is doing the
Cucaracha-->ignition timing
retarding to stone age, and some gas is
still burning/BLOWTORCHING while shot
into the exhaust manifold. Use
higher octane gas. I have seen a
drop of 100F anecdotally using race
gas 114 octane, vs. crappy
"reformulated" (oxygenated with MTBE or
Ethanol) gas peddled around
my area due to draconian and frequently
anti-scientific environmental laws
which are making my environment way
too clean for me to live HAPPILY
:)
Paul,
I know their big guys, but how about Borg
Warner?
Don
wce@bc.sympatico.ca wrote:
>
> Paul;
>
> You symbolize what this Team is really all
about. Good on Ya! I will try to restrain
> myself from too much of a
profile from now on, and let you good guys do what you do
> best. I just
had note, however, your use of "our", which should give
everyone who
> feels the same way, a shit eatin smile!! I hope that
your/our list grows in the days
> ahead, and that some manufacturer
somewhere is affected by the enthusiasum of our Team
> spirit .
>
> Best
>
> Darc
>
> Klusmanp@aol.com wrote:
>
> >
Ok I just went back to the Hurst website and found their email address. I
sent
> > the same letter as described in my last post. At this point
our "list"
> > includes the following:
> >
>
> Ligenfelter
> > Hurst
> >
> > Paul
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
Hey gang,
Just have a quick question that I wanted to
verify.
Is the Front Wheel Drive differential on the VR4 a
limited slip unit or just a regular
dif ?
Curious, because I read somewhere that it was but
wasn't sure of the source for the
info. !
Irving Jimenez
96 VR-4
(Wife) - 96 Eclipse
GSX
Chris,
I'm with you. Was it I-94 or I-275, their are both
disaster areas!
Don
Shattered Soul wrote:
>
> Try
living in Michigan. We are the pothole capital of the world.
Just
> this morning on the radio they were talking about a 10ft
pothole.
> There were like 10 cars on the side of the road with thrashed
tires and
> wheels. Its actually quite embarrassing. One a
several reasons I am
> ready to pack up and go somewhere else. And
they call us the motor
> city!?!
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> >Well Saturday, around noon, I was driving I-40 Eastbound, in
St. Louis,
> >around 141 Mason Rd. area,(St. Louis guys know where),
far left lane.
> >I was doing about 60, because the road was wet from
the abnormal
> >snow we had that morning. I hit this series of
potholes, almost lost
> >control of my car, damn near threw me into the
next lane.
> >
> >All of a sudden my ECS light starts
flashing, I pull over to have a
> >look.
> >My left front
wheel, and tire are completely destroyed, my left rear
> >wheel
>
>is damaged, and apparently my left front strut is damaged.
>
>
> >I have called the highway dept. to find out if they will pay to
have
> the
> >car
> >repaired. Does anyone know anything
about these type of issues?
> >On Saturday I called the St Louis Co.
dept of trans, and they told me
> >if the road was one that they
maintain, that they do indeed pay for the
> >damage.
>
>Unfortunately they dont maintain I-40.
> >
> >Advice,
information, on any similar experiences would be much
>
>appreciated.
> >
> >If anyone has one 6 spoke
18" chrome rim for sale, I suppose I may be
> >in
the
> >market by this afternoon. I have little faith in the state
taking
> >responsibility for this.
> >
> >Bill Davis
Lame 95 VR-4
> >
> >
> >For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private,
Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
I had a crappy weekend. I was doing about 30 on a city
road when this
guy in front of me slams on the brakes to avoid running a
yellow. This
really caught me off guard, but I figured I had enough room to
stop
(about 30 feet). I gave the brakes firm pressure however i
wasn't
stopping fast enough so I proceeded to slam on them. The brakes
locked
up and the car slid the rest of the way into the back of a
massive
'80'sish mercedes. The driver of the mercedes and I both got out
to
check the damage. There wasn't even a tiny scratch on the mercedes
while
my brand new bumper was completely screwed up. The paint is
seriously
marred on the immediate front and it is majorly flaking around the
right
headlight. Funny thing is I just replaced my front bumper cover about
2
months before because some idiot hit me in a parking lot. Well this
time
it was my fault and I have no intention of filing a third claim within
a
year. My question is this. Since I will probably have to replace
the
cover again, can anyone tell me if I can obtain the '99 bumper cover
for
my GT? Or does erebuni sell the front piece of the shogun
kit
separately? How about the bozz speed front bumper extension?
Thanks
for reading; sorry about the long post!
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Jan 25 18:00:21
1999
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From: "Steven A. File" <sfile@usa.net>
To: "Team 3S"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Mitsu Engines and Clutches
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:59:30
-0600
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Weekend Toy: '97 Mitsubishi 3000 GT, VR-4, AWD, AWS,
TT,
Solano Blk Pearl: "The Turbo
Beep-Beep"
Weekday Toy: '98 Mitsubishi 3000 GT,
SOHC,
Solano Blk Pearl: "The
Beep-Beep"
Things that make you go 'hhhhmmmmm . .
.
"If all is not lost, then where
is it?"
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Jan 25 19:11:38
1999
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From: "Bob
Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: F*cked my GT up...
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:35:07
-0800
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If there's only flaking paint and some moderate marring
of the finish, a
good detailing shop can repair the bumper and match the
paint. As a result
of a Jimmy backing into me in a parking lot and
mashing the front license
plate into the bumper AND a right front smash of
unknown origin, the local
shop here only charged a couple of hundred $ for a
perfect repair and paint
job.
Forrest
-----Original Message-----From: Kyle Patton <smite@home.com>
-------------snip-------------
|my
brand new bumper was completely screwed up. The paint is seriously
|marred on
the immediate front and it is majorly flaking around the
right
|headlight... --------snip-------
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Jan 25 19:28:06
1999
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From:
Brian Danley <bcdmad@concentric.net>
To:
"'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Attempted Theft!.... bought an alarm...
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999
21:23:09 -0500
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I'm not sure if the
alarm circuitry can handle the
load of two, maybe three sirens so I will
add
a relay.
[Brian
Danley]
Yes add a relay. I had a show truck with 3 sirens and one Fan
Siren (off a
fire engine). It was very loud. The problem with
this is the more sirens
you put on the less easy it is to turn off from far
away. If you can find
it there is a siren called The Siren From
Hell. It's loud but it makes a
different sound then the common 5-6
tone. You can also get one that just
makes one tone ..That way it's
different from the others. By the way you
bought a nice unit, DEI makes
some of the best products on the market.
Brian
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Jan 25 20:00:45
1999
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From:
Kevin Clark <Kevin.Clark@hnz.co.nz>
To:
"'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Attempted Theft!.... bought an alarm...
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999
05:04:49 +0100
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Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
> The only place under the hood that I could find
was underneath
> the fuse/relay box in front of the air filter. Does
anyone know
> of another location?
The following image (6KB) is of an Alpine Siren fitted
beside
the stock filter and fuse box... It is tight but you may
find
room here.
It also might be a good time to fit a K&N, and thus
get a whole
heap more room :)
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Jan 25 22:13:30
1999
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From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
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Subject:
Re: Team3S: EGT Temperatures
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xwing wrote:
>
> Mike Chapleski
wrote:
> > EGT gauge in front manifold an inch before turbo
>
> hit 950-975 deg C (1742-1787F) going 120 MPH 14 psi boost; was still
climbing
> > before I let off gas. No load cruising highway temp
700-800C (1292-1472F)
> > Mike '95 Stealth RT TT
>
> This
can be two things...
> 1) too lean. Get rich. Buy bigger
injectors/an AFC. Or, sit tight,
> stare at wall, and keep repeating
"LEAN IS MEAN"...
> 2) very retarded timing: your gas
hasn't enough octane for the boost
> you are running-->you are
detonating--> knock sensor is doing the
> Cucaracha-->ignition
timing retarding to stone age, and some gas is
> still
burning/BLOWTORCHING while shot into the exhaust manifold.
Yikes! This is bad news, as I frequently lay into
the gas for extended
periods on the Autobahn. I wouldn't be surprised
if it turns out that
reason #1 is to blame, since from previous discussions
on this list it
appeared that the stock injectors deliver inadequate flow for
1.0 bar at
high RPMs. At least I hope that's the case... Mike could
have easily
sustained 120 mph at 14 psi in a higher gear/lower RPMs, pointing
the
finger to reason #2, which is a tad harder to resolve.
Next Monday's dyno session with Mike and Roger in
Switzerland will be
very revealing, as we hope to determine the conditions
for and threshold
of knock.
*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 70/84% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, TS
(so far): 166mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9
mph
At 08:19 PM 1/25/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Is the Front Wheel Drive differential on the VR4 a
limited slip unit or just
>a regular
>dif ?
It's NOT lim. slip.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Jan 26 07:20:04
1999
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From:
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To: <stealth@dragnet.com>, <stealth@starnet.net>,
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: POTHOLES!!!
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:24:20
-0500
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The interstate system is controlled by the federal
government (at least
funds wise.)
Also negotiate with your insurance company to take care
of this claim under
your comprehensive coverage. This way they do not
count it as an accident
claim and it will have no impact on your
rates.
>Well Saturday, around noon, I was driving I-40
Eastbound, in St. Louis,
>around 141 Mason Rd. area,(St. Louis guys know
where), far left lane.
>I was doing about 60, because the road was wet
from the abnormal
>snow we had that morning. I hit this series of
potholes, almost lost
>control of my car, damn near threw me into the next
lane.
>
>All of a sudden my ECS light starts flashing, I pull over
to have a
>look.
>My left front wheel, and tire are completely
destroyed, my left rear
>wheel
>is damaged, and apparently my left
front strut is damaged.
>
>I have called the highway dept. to find
out if they will pay to have the
>car
>repaired. Does anyone know
anything about these type of issues?
>On Saturday I called the St Louis
Co. dept of trans, and they told me
>if the road was one that they
maintain, that they do indeed pay for the
>damage.
>Unfortunately
they dont maintain I-40.
>
>Advice, information, on any similar
experiences would be much
>appreciated.
>
>If anyone has one 6
spoke 18" chrome rim for sale, I suppose I may be
>in
the
>market by this afternoon. I have little faith in the state
taking
>responsibility for this.
>
>Bill Davis Lame 95
VR-4
>
>
Jack;
You wrote:
> This can be two things...
> 1) too
lean. Get rich. Buy bigger injectors/an AFC. Or, sit
tight,
> stare at wall, and keep repeating "LEAN IS
MEAN"...
> 2) very retarded timing: your gas hasn't enough
octane for the boost
> you are running-->you are detonating--> knock
sensor is doing the
> Cucaracha-->ignition timing retarding to stone
age, and some gas is
> still burning/BLOWTORCHING while shot into the
exhaust manifold. Use
> higher octane gas. I have seen a drop
of 100F anecdotally using race
> gas 114 octane, vs. crappy
"reformulated" (oxygenated with MTBE or
> Ethanol) gas peddled
around my area due to draconian and frequently
> anti-scientific
environmental laws which are making my environment way
> too clean for me
to live HAPPILY :)
>
Have you revisited water injection as a fix for this?
It seems that a good WI system
(Barry mentioned some months back) might be a
reasonable solution to a problem that is
not going away with bigger
injectors, better gas, new computers, bigger turbos, etc. It
just may make
things last a lot longer...using of course, "distilled" water
whenever
possible for less corrosive effects. Thoughts? Anyone out
there fitted their car with
one?
Best
Darc
This message is for Mike, the guy who is having
problems with his snakeye mod.
I noticed somebody posted the foglight mod as a remedy
to you're problem
with the snakeye mod. The reason i'm replying to this is
because i am the
originator/creator of the foglight mod. This modification
was NOT intended
to be a "fix" for the snakeyes mod, as i have not
even seen the snake mod,
and i dont know which wires were modified. If you
would like further help
with getting your fog lights working, send me a copy
of the snake
instructions, and i will see if i can provive some insight as to
why it
causes the foglights to stop working, or if my fog light mod will do
it for
you.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Jan 26 12:00:11
1999
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
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Hello all,
<< This site has remanufactured Mitsubishi
engines with a 5 year 50,000 mile
warranty: http://www.quality-import-parts.com/mitsmain.htm>>
This is not meant to discredit Steve's post by any means ( I am
always for
sharing new information), but I have learned alot about 91-93
nonturbo engines
while rebuilding mine, and this company lists the
remanufactured engine for
$3500. A factory NEW engine can be had through West
Broad Mitsubishi (with the
list discounts) for about the same price, actually
about a hundred bucks less.
ANother thing that bothers me about the
advertisement is that they state
that they grind the crankshaft and use
aftermarket bearings - both are bad
ideas with the 6G72 engine,
IMO.
Again, I only mean to offer what I think is a better
option (new vs.
remanufactured) and hope to help others avoid the mistakes I
made.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Jan 26 12:34:28
1999
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Subject: Team3S: Modification Recommendations
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Hi , I have been on this list for a short while and
have read every piece of
archived, web, vendor info I can find. I own a 93
VR4 with a K&N FIPK,
Magnacor wires, plugs gapped at 32, Blitz boost
controller running around
1.15 / 1.20 peak, GAB shocks, H&R springs, Road
Race rear tower bar,
slotted front rotors, PF 80 pads. I don't drag race it.
I DO road race it at
Pocono, Lime Rock, and Watkins Glen. If you were at this
point in mods what
would you do next for HP gains, keeping in mind that the
turbo's are almost
alway spooled up road racing. Would you go for fuel
management, or exhaust,
or turbo's, or injectors, or fuel pump, or
intercoolers, etc. Please include
why you would do a upgrade and in what
order. Sorry for the long post, but I
want to get the biggest bang (sic) for
the buck, without changing directions 5
times to get there.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Jan 26 12:55:00
1999
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From: "Brad Bedell" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Modification Recommendations
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:58:43
-0600
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Do something with the brakes, keep that thing off the
wall.
How do you like the rear tower bar? Did it help/make
any noticeable
difference?
Check out the brake kit I put together for my car on my
web site.
(still very happy with them), no warps or fading.
Hi , I have been on this list for a short while and
have read every piece of
archived, web, vendor info I can find. I own a 93
VR4 with a K&N FIPK,
Magnacor wires, plugs gapped at 32, Blitz boost
controller running around
1.15 / 1.20 peak, GAB shocks, H&R springs, Road
Race rear tower bar,
slotted front rotors, PF 80 pads. I don't drag race it.
I DO road race it at
Pocono, Lime Rock, and Watkins Glen. If you were at this
point in mods what
would you do next for HP gains, keeping in mind that the
turbo's are almost
alway spooled up road racing. Would you go for fuel
management, or exhaust,
or turbo's, or injectors, or fuel pump, or
intercoolers, etc. Please include
why you would do a upgrade and in what
order. Sorry for the long post, but I
want to get the biggest bang (sic) for
the buck, without changing directions
5
times to get there.
<snip>
If you were at this point in mods
what
would you do next for HP gains, keeping in mind that the turbo's are
almost
alway spooled up road racing. Would you go for fuel management, or
exhaust,
or turbo's, or injectors, or fuel pump, or intercoolers, etc. Please
include
why you would do a upgrade and in what order.
<snip>
Dave Skultety - 1st corner near home is TURN
1
===================================
Dave...
1. Do the exhaust. You're not coming close to realizing
the potential of the
turbos with a stock exhaust. Replace it all, from the
precats back. Lengthy
discussions have been had about various mfg versus
custom. Probably personal
preference once you've made the decision to open up
the flow.
2. Larger turbos. BIG step and should wait until the exhaust is
done. BIG
why? Because the entire package (turbos, fuel pump, injectors,
intercoolers,
fuel management system) should really be done at once, not a
piece at a
time.
GOOD LUCK!!!
Looking forward...Chris
1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/HKS Super Flo intake,
HKS SBOV, Predator dry
cell battery, bored and polished throttle body,
Magnecore 8.5mm wires, HKS
double platinum plugs gapped at .034", GReddy
PRofec A boost controller,
GReddy turbo timer, ATR downpipe and test pipe,
GReddy catback exhaust,
Eibach 1" drop progressive springs)
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Jan 26 13:20:52
1999
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I'd go for removing all 3 cats with a larger ATR
downpipe to spool the turbos
quicker.
The actual exhaust won't be a
restriction until you go to 15G turbos - then
I'd get the Borla exhaust. Then
I'd go for the entire intercooler upgrade,
pipes & all.
Cooler temps
equal more HP.
Arty 91 VR-4
In a message dated 1/26/99 12:35:02 PM Pacific Standard
Time, Dskull@aol.com
writes:
<< Subj: Team3S: Modification
Recommendations
Date: 1/26/99 12:35:02 PM Pacific Standard
Time
From: Dskull@aol.com
Sender: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Reply-to:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Hi
, I have been on this list for a short while and have read every piece
of
archived, web, vendor info I can find. I own a 93 VR4 with a K&N
FIPK,
Magnacor wires, plugs gapped at 32, Blitz boost controller
running around
1.15 / 1.20 peak, GAB shocks, H&R springs, Road Race
rear tower bar,
slotted front rotors, PF 80 pads. I don't drag race it.
I DO road race it at
Pocono, Lime Rock, and Watkins Glen. If you were
at this point in mods what
would you do next for HP gains, keeping in
mind that the turbo's are almost
alway spooled up road racing. Would
you go for fuel management, or exhaust,
or turbo's, or injectors, or
fuel pump, or intercoolers, etc. Please include
why you would do a
upgrade and in what order. Sorry for the long post, but I
want to get
the biggest bang (sic) for the buck, without changing
directions
5
times to get there.
Dave Skultety - 1st corner near home is TURN 1
>>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Jan 26 13:30:03
1999
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Date:
Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:28:16 +0100
From: Mike Chapleski <mike.chapleski@ibm.net>
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Re: Team3S: EGT Temperatures
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> This can be two things...
> 1) too
lean. Get rich. Buy bigger injectors/an AFC. Or, sit
tight,
> stare at wall, and keep repeating "LEAN IS
MEAN"...
If this is the case, then that means
the stock injectors cannot handle the fuel at
the higher boost levels.
I guess this is not a big problem for drag racing (short
spurts), but over
here on the Autobahns, where I can easily hold boost for several
miles, I am
probably pushing the engine too hard. I have been holding out
on
purchasing injectors/15-17gs/AFC till my warrantee runs out, but I may
have to speed up
my modification schedule
>
> 2) very retarded timing: your gas
hasn't enough octane for the boost
> you are running-->you are
detonating--> knock sensor is doing the
> Cucaracha-->ignition
timing retarding to stone age, and some gas is
> still
burning/BLOWTORCHING while shot into the exhaust manifold. Use
>
higher octane gas. I have seen a drop of 100F anecdotally using
race
> gas 114 octane,
This is also a problem. The
highest octane we can get here is 93, which is what I
was using when I did
these runs.
Sounds like parts of 1 & 2 above
are causing a bigger problem. I guess I need to
play with the
boost/EGT/MPH/RPM a little more to see if I can isolate the problem.
One
more thing, I have not gutted my pre-cats. Mainly because I have no
idea how the
Germans do their emissions tests. The procedure is I drop
the car off in the morning
and it is ready in the afternoon. With the
way German laws are, if I fail, I could end
up having to give up my first
born to get my car back.
Well it looks like I have some
homework to do here. I am now really glad I got this
gauge. I
have had this "feeling" that the engine is right at the edge and now I
know.
Thanks,
Mike
0018
'95 Stealth RT TT
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Jan 26 14:41:40
1999
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From:
"Trent" <rtrent@nlci.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Modification Recommendations
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:28:39
-0500
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First, save your engine! Install an
EGT
>1. Do the exhaust. You're not coming close to
realizing the potential of
the
>turbos with a stock exhaust. Replace it
all, from the precats back. Lengthy
>discussions have been had about
various mfg versus custom. Probably
personal
>preference once you've
made the decision to open up the flow.
I've been running 13g's @ 18psi with stock exhaust and
downpipe, BOV, and
intercoolers. If the stock exhaust were a
restriction, the 13g's wouldn't
be holding boost. If your already
running a boost controller, you will see
more power by switching to 500 or
550cc injectors. This also requires a
fuel pump upgrade and fuel
controller i.e. Apex AFC. The whole thing can be
done for a few hundred
more then the price of a downpipe and cat back
system.
>2. Larger turbos.
13g's can be had from TEC for around 1500.00 or less
than the price of an
intercooler system. 13g's or 15g's are designed to
run high boost more
efficiently resulting in lower air temp.
Aftermarket intercoolers will make
little if any difference for short
runs. As for road racing, I've yet to
here if they make much
difference, I have my doubts.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT (Vendors never return my
calls)
> Hmm... Was running low on the good stuff (gas) and
decided
> to head into a petrol station. On my way in I notice
a
> fairly audible BANG! and seem to have lost all gears...
Well, it seems that the big bang was the output shaft
being
destroyed. It seems that there was a good reason to
improve
this in the '93 and up models :)
They have pulled it apart, but are not able to give me
an
estimate of how long it will take to fix for at least a
week. I
think they are tossing up the cost of replacement
vs the cost of
fixing...
Hmm... looks like I will spending a little more time
around
the flat over the next few weeks :(
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Jan 26 19:07:23
1999
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Date:
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From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
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Subject:
Team3S: HP Contest!
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Mike Chapleski wrote:
>
> As Jim eluded to in a previous post, Jim
Matthews, Roger Gerl
> and I are meeting in Zurich, Switzerland on Monday
to strap our
> cars to an AWD dyno. Since Roger is the only one that
has done this
> in the past, both Jim and I are really looking forward to
what our
> cars are really at. We plan to share all the info with
the list so
> hopefully this will allow everyone to better interpolate
what their
> HP really is.
> So in going
with that we have decided to have a little contest
> on what everyone
thinks the HP is for each of our cars. Please
> send your
guesses/predictions to us personnaly so we don't clog the
>
list.
We will summarize your guesses when we post the
results. Our Email
addresses are as follows:
Mike's mods:
'95 Stealth RT TT
22k miles
Intake
K&N
Exhaust
Borla Cat Back
test pipe
Alamo
downpipe
pre-cat fully functional
Engine
Magnecor wires
Blitz DSBC set at 14
psi
Apexi EGT probe clogging front exhaust manifold
Stock
turbos
Drivetrain
Mobil 1 10W030 oil
BG Syncroshift in
transaxle
Redline Heavy in Transfer case
Centerforce DF
clutch
Gas is 93 octane (highest we can get in Europe)
I
have the plugs gapped at .042. I plan to do a baseline run with
this
setup, then while Roger and Jim are setting up, I will regap to .032
and
do another run.
Jim's mods (that would impact power), all made at
50k miles:
'94 Stealth R/T TT
68k miles
Intake
K&N FIPK
Exhaust
100% stock
Engine
Magnecor wires
Plugs gapped to
.034
A'PEXi SAVC-R set at 1.0 bar
Lubrication
Mobil 1 10W30 synthetic motor
oil
Redline ShockProof Light in transaxle
Redline ShockProof Heavy in
Transfer case
Fuel
93 octane (highest available in
Europe)
Roger is out of town so I won't guess at his
current mods (not sure what
he ended up with after the rebuild and the GT
Alley fiasco), but his
last dyno session was 397 hp with the Blitz DSBC set
at 1.05 bar.
Jim's guesses:
Roger = 405
Mike =
395
Jim = 375
Good luck! :-)
*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 70/84% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, TS
(so far): 166mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9
mph
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Jan 26 20:17:58
1999
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Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999
22:21:48 -0600
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
From:
ebk@advant.com (Katz, Eric)
Subject:
Team3S: Newby modification questions
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Hello all,
I'm a brand spanking
new list member-just found the list a couple of
days ago. I have a '92 VR4
which is completely stock. It's interesting that
all the "quirks"
my car has developed seem to be common problems in the
archives. Anyway, it's
nice to have found this excellent resource. I will
try to take advantage of
it now by asking the following questions:
I am interested in participating
in the group purchase for the Altered
Atmosphere Motorsports air intake. Are
the filters reusable like the K&Ns?
Is there much of an increase in
noise? In GM turbo cars a less restrictive
intake usually results in
"turbo chatter", but if I am not mistaken, these
cars have a
"sneeze valve" which should prevent that(?) Thanks very much
for
the info.
The following was posted on the DSM digest. Could
this company (BRE
Engines) help us as well?
Maybe some one who lives near San Jose, CA can go and
talk to BRE and
find out.
Jose
Original message
folllows:--------------------------------------------
Date: 26 Jan 1999 11:45:10
-0600
From: Vernon Naidoo <venaidoo@dttus.com>
Subject: Tranny
mod - BRE Engines
Message-ID: <#30>
Hi All,
In the last week or so I've noticed a couple of emails
complaining
about the crappy AWD transmissions. I thought I introduce
those
interested to a company called BRE Engines (San Jose, CA), which
does
a nice mod on DSM transmissions that eliminates almost all
that
crappiness (if such a word exists). I was out in California
two
weekends back, and had a chance to test drive a '91 Talon that
had
just come out of BRE Engines shop, and I must admit that I was
very
impressed. Jeff, the owner, assured me that I could shift as fast as
I
wanted to, and at any rpm, and will never have a problem. My test
drive
could not prove him wrong.
Jeff is known for almost all the work on David Shih's
Honda, and is
currently helping Todd Chaimparino with his '91 Eclipse to
achieve
some similar HP. Todd currently boasts BRE Engines tranny mod,
and
has already made a couple of 12s test passes at the track with
no
complaints. If anyone is interested, contact Jeff at (408) 995-5750.
I
cannot give out any pricing info, as I got a special offer (friend
of
Todd's). I also cannot say what Jeff does to the tranny,
vendor
courtesy, but one can speculate.
I will be happy with a change in the tranny, as I've
lost too many
races because of a missed shift.
Vernon Naidoo.
'91 Talon AWD
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Jan 26 20:31:25
1999
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From: "Bob
Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Team3S: ADMIN NOTICE - Please READ and SAVE...
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999
20:33:28 -0800
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Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
To all Team3S list subscribers:
Some questions have been raised about the suspension of
members from the
list -- both as to WHAT are the operating criteria for such
removals and WHO
is "running the ship", so to speak.
The seven subscribers who formed and oversee this list
operate as one, with
equal authority and access to the software, and a common
goal of making sure
that all of the information that is posted here is of a
technical nature
pertaining to the Stealth and 3000GT. We collaborate
on all administrative
chores, and whoever originates an idea posts it,
although we all have a
"hand" in the wording. We chose to
create a technical list without flames,
chat, or fluff, and we listed a set
of standards which each member is
expected to respect.
In keeping with that goal, we try to minimize admin
posts going out to the
list that are unrelated, including the workings of the
list itself, and open
discussions about the removal of those who have chosen
not to adhere to the
rules, etc... We keep those discussions private to
insure that we ourselves
follow those rules and only post technical
information about the cars. We
appreciate that questions to we 7
"administrators" have been made privately,
and that you all have
shown concern for keeping this list "clean".
>From time to time, members will make mistakes, with
a post going out
accidentally, or we forget to turn off HTML used in a
previous email
session; we admins make those mistakes too, so we assume that
the occasional
posting error was inadvertent. But subscribers who
blatantly and repeatedly
disregard the rules are sent a polite reminder (by
whichever one of the
admins that happens to notice the violation) to please
correct the
situation. Also, there are times that we admins don't
notice a problem, and
one of you suggests that we give it our
attention.
In this most recent case of a listmember being removed,
several of you
alerted us beforehand that he had a tendency on other lists to
bait members
and attempt to create heated arguments; still other members
objected when he
actually sent that "kind" of inflammatory
post. Such behavior is not
acceptable on this list, so after an admin
sent him a polite warning, (and
his response included the phrase "...you
will not get me to kiss your
ass..."), it was obvious that this
individual did not belong on a
"gentleman's list" (gentleperson's
list?), and he was removed. He made his
choice; we simply implemented
the rules.
For any questions you may have of all of us, you may
reach us at:
or you may reach us individually at:
BOB Forrest, San Francisco, CA, USA bf@bobforrest.com
CHRIS Winkley,
Portland, OR, USA cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com
DARCY
Gunnlaugson, Victoria, B.C., CANADA wce@bc.sympatico.ca
JIM Matthews,
Wiesbaden, GERMANY matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de
MIKAEL
Akesson, Stockholm, SWEDEN vr4@bahnhof.se
RICH Leroy, Ridgefield, WA,
USA rleroy@pacifier.com
ROGER
Gerl, Zurich, SWITZERLAND robby@swissonline.ch
Thank you for your attention,
Bob Forrest
Admin, Team3S
Hey Kevin;
At least one aftermarket maker of the output shaft
(Italian) is now available (see the
Summation on Getrag posting) and I
believe someone else posted to group awhile back
indicating another maker in
the USA was producing aftermarket as well. Maybe if they're
listening they
could post back.
Best
Darc
Kevin Clark wrote:
> > Hmm... Was running low on the good stuff
(gas) and decided
> > to head into a petrol station. On my way in
I notice a
> > fairly audible BANG! and seem to have lost all
gears...
>
> Well, it seems that the big bang was the output shaft
being
> destroyed. It seems that there was a good reason to
improve
> this in the '93 and up models :)
>
>
They have pulled it apart, but are not able to give me an
> estimate of
how long it will take to fix for at least a
> week. I think they are
tossing up the cost of replacement
> vs the cost of
fixing...
>
> Hmm... looks like I will spending a little more time
around
> the flat over the next few weeks :(
>
>
Cheers,
> Kevin Clark
> '91 GTO-VR4
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Jan 26 21:22:07
1999
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From: "Jose Soriano"
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To:
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Subject:
Re: Team3S: Newby modification questions
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:34:11
-0800
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>I am interested in participating in the group
purchase for the Altered
>Atmosphere Motorsports air intake. Are the
filters reusable like the K&Ns?
>Is there much of an increase in
noise? In GM turbo cars a less restrictive
>intake usually results in
"turbo chatter", >
Welcome!
I have a K&N FIPK filter in my 91
RT/TT and I have not noticed any turbo
chatter noise. Also air intake in the
group prurchase uses the exact same
element that K&N uses. K&N
manufactures the element for this and other
aftermarket filters. I believe
that the intake is the same as the K&N except
that the center is cut out
and has more filter area there (to increase
airflow..... or so they
say).
On another note, if you are looking for modification advice, check
out
www.nexusmotorsports.com .
They have a section on the Stealth/3000GT. Go to
"SALES" and click
on our car. At the bottom of the list, they have a
"Staged
Upgrades" section that I find very helpful. And www.3000GT.com has a
modifications section
that lists many performance upgrades and explains
them. These two web
resources help me understand my turbocharged car since
this is my first
one.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Jan 26 21:31:04
1999
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From: "Oskar" <swede@pclink.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Team3S: '95 R/T TT mods (hp contest)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:30:27
-0600
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Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Mike,
I noticed you've got some of the same mods I have and
am planning for my '95
R/T TT. I currently have K&N FIPK, Magnecore
wires and NGK plugs. The
plugs and wires will go on the car anyday
now. I plan to gap the plugs at
.034.
I am looking for the next hp mod, which in my case will
be a boost
controller. I'm having a hard time deciding on
exhaust. There are so many
different theories out there regarding the
value of upgrading the stock
exhaust. I know Jim M. is of the belief
that this does not make a
difference. So, now that I see what mods
you've got I must ask your
opinion. Do you see an improvement compared
to stock? Do you think that
cat-back alone will matter?
Maybe you will know more after comparing to Jim's car
on the dyno!
Enjoy the dyno session - should be a learning
experience. I'm curious to
see what the re-gapping of the plugs
yield!!
BTW - I don't know what you've got for brakes.
Personally I was unhappy
with the factory brakes. My front rotors were
warped, not to mention poor
stopping power. I always have wanted cross
drilled rotors and that is what
I just ordered. For $717 I got the
following shipped to Minnesota:
4 cross drilled Stillen rotors
Front/rear
sets of Metal matrix pads
Stillen/Goodridge braided brake lines
A pretty good price! I got them from Alamo
Motorsports.
Thanks,
Oskar
Pearl White 95 R/T TT
31k
miles
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Jan 26 21:38:09
1999
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From: "Oskar" <swede@pclink.com>
To: "Team
3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Ouch!
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:37:33 -0600
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This is a multi-part message in MIME
format.
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Sorry guys! =20
My previous post was intended to be
private.
Time for bed...
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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Sorry guys!
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size=3D2>Time for
bed...</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_00FE_01BE4984.D8F99AA0--
I need some spacers to stiffen up my rear springs for
launching. Where
can I obtain some? How exactly do I use them? I'm getting a
g-tech and I
want to work on my 60 ft. times. Thanks
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Jan 27 05:44:20
1999
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Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:44:16 -0500
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From: Dennis Moore <stealth@kiva.net>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S: Stealth Brakes Question
In-Reply-To:
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Hi All,
My car has ~102K miles on it, and I'm still using the
brakes that were on
it when I bought it at ~12K. I've had them
inspected every time I take
the car in to fix a tire (I seem to pick up lots
of nails), get the tires
rotated, etc, which is about every 3-6K. Every
time, they report "plenty
of meat on there", and that the brakes
are fine.
I don't have any indications that this isn't so, but
I'm kinda leary of
the idea of running on brakes that
"seasoned". So here, finally, are the
questions: do any of
you have similar mileage on your brakes? (I know
some of you go through
a set of pads in a weekend at the track...) Should
I be more skeptical
of the folks who have looked at them? I haven't
checked them myself -
never taken apart brakes on a car, any Hoosiers out
there willing to help me?
Vital papers will demonstrate their vitality by moving
from where you left
them to where you can't find them.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Jan 27 06:54:25
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From:
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To:
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Subject:
Team3S: Advice needed on boost gauge installation
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999
08:56:01 -0600
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Hi everyone,
I just got my Autometer boost gauge in the mail
yesterday, but I'm
scratching my head on one thing. The fittings that
were included don't
contain a T connector. All of the pictures I've
seen of 3/S cars with
gauges or controllers have a T connector to tap into
the hose. Can I buy a
universal T connector from Wal-Mart in the
Aquarium department? Or do I
need to buy a T connector from
Autometer?? Or am I missing something
obvious? The connectors
that are supplied are all threaded and look way to
wide. Please reply
to me privately and to the list, because I subscribe to
the digest and I want
to figure this problem as quickly as possible.
At 09:01 PM 1/26/99 -0800, you wrote:
>Hey
Kevin;
> I believe someone else posted to group
>awhile
back
>indicating another maker in the USA was producing aftermarket as
well. Maybe
>if they're
>listening they could post
back.
Yes, i am listening. The place you need to contact if
you want one is East
street auto.
Phone; 901-774-5374
Talk to Jim
and please tell him i told you about this deal.
I believe he is getting $400
for each piece.
Later
Wayne
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Jan 27 07:12:26
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From: "Nexus
Motorsports" <nexus@alleyesonme.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Advice needed on boost gauge installation
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999
10:11:54 -0500
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>I just got my Autometer boost gauge in the mail
yesterday, but I'm
>scratching my head on one thing. The fittings
that were included don't
>contain a T connector.
You can buy a 4mm or 6mm (depending on what size vacuum
hose you plan on
using) from any local auto parts store such as AutoZone or
PepBoys. A
standard size like 5/32 is fine. Also make sure to use
zip ties and tie up
the hose connecting to the T fitting. Most of the
fittings you'll find in
parts store is made out of plastic. Try and
find the strongest or thickest
plastic fitting you can. We see a lot of
cars here at the shop where an old
plastic fitting just breaks off the hose
at the slightest touch due to heat
deterioration and old age. It's a
pain when we are trying to move things
like a boost gauge vacuum hose around
for a new boost controller or such.
That's why we don't even use the plastic
fitting supplied with the various
boost controllers and gauges here at the
shop anymore. The best fitting to
get is the ones made out of
brass. They are pricey, but I think they are
worth it in the long
run.
At 08:44 AM 1/27/99 -0500, you wrote:
>
>do
any of you have similar mileage on your brakes? (I know
>some of you
go through a set of pads in a weekend at the track...) Should
>I be
more skeptical of the folks who have looked at them? I
haven't
>checked them myself - never taken apart brakes on a car, any
Hoosiers out
>there willing to help me?
I would go ahead and take theyre word for it. They
would'nt pass up a
chance to make money. I've put 20k miles on my brakes and
they havent worn
much at all. Other brands may wear out faster, but Mitsu
pads seem to last
forever.
You will require a T fitting. Grab a chunk of the
hose and go down to a
hardware, automotive or pet supply store and find one
that fits. I think
the hose is usually around 1/4" but may be
smaller or larger depending upon
the hose. Get the barbed fitting
style.
I recommend not buying the cheapest one you see since
they are often more
likely to become brittle with the high underhood
temperatures and crack.
Even the HKS ones aren't that great. Brass
seems to work well also. Small
zip ties can be used to ensure a snug
junction of the hose to the fitting.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
> Hi
everyone,
>
> I just got my Autometer boost gauge in the mail
yesterday, but I'm
> scratching my head on one thing. The fittings
that were included don't
> contain a T connector. All of the
pictures I've seen of 3/S cars with
> gauges or controllers have a T
connector to tap into the hose.
> Can I buy a
> universal T
connector from Wal-Mart in the Aquarium department? Or do I
> need
to buy a T connector from Autometer?? Or am I missing something
>
obvious? The connectors that are supplied are all threaded and
>
look way to
> wide. Please reply to me privately and to the list,
because I
> subscribe to
> the digest and I want to figure this
problem as quickly as possible.
>
> Thanks,
> Curt G
>
95 R/T TT
Curt,
In addition to what everyone is telling you,
you must also consider weather
or not you want to monitor vaccum. Not all
hoses under the hood 'see'
vacum.(only the ones downstream of the throttle
plate) Remove hoses one at
a time while the engine is idling until you find
one that is sucking air,
then tie into that one.
Wayne
Thanks Wayne;
When I posted my summary on Getrag, I could not find
another past posting that I
remembered wherein it was indicated a US firm was
making these, and if I remember
correctly, transfer case replacements as
well. True? or No? ......For the Getrag record
and people researching
it.
Thanks
Darc
Wayne wrote:
> At 09:01 PM 1/26/99 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Hey Kevin;
> > I believe someone else posted to group
>
>awhile back
> >indicating another maker in the USA was producing
aftermarket as well. Maybe
> >if they're
> >listening they
could post back.
>
> Yes, i am listening. The place you need to
contact if you want one is East
> street auto.
> Phone;
901-774-5374
> Talk to Jim and please tell him i told you about this
deal.
> I believe he is getting $400 for each piece.
>
Later
>
> Wayne
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Jan 27 07:37:59
1999
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From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Advice needed on boost gauge installation
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999
08:38:29 -0700
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Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
The hose at the plenum (intake manifold) which senses
manifold pressure for
the fuel pressure regulator sees boost and
vaccuum. That is the correct
place to tap in for a boost gauge since
that is what the engine is actually
seeing and is typically what the user
would expect to see also.
Monitoring before the TB will show boost but not
anything below atmosphere
and also will show boost when the engine is not
actually under boost.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
> Curt,
>
In addition to what everyone is telling you, you must also
> consider
weather
> or not you want to monitor vaccum. Not all hoses under the hood
'see'
> vacum.(only the ones downstream of the throttle plate) Remove
hoses one at
> a time while the engine is idling until you find one that
is sucking air,
> then tie into that one.
>
>
Wayne
He (Jim) is having the output shafts and x-fer case
mating female part
(whatever it's called) made in both spline sizes. He is
not sure what
material is being used. I've seen the finished part and it
looks pretty
good as far as manufact. quality goes. I just recently posted
this info,
thats probably why you didnt find it when you were looking. Hope
this helps
Wayne
At 07:25 AM 1/27/99 -0800, you wrote:
>Thanks
Wayne;
>
>When I posted my summary on Getrag, I could not find
another past posting
>that I
>remembered wherein it was indicated a
US firm was making these, and if I
>remember
>correctly, transfer
case replacements as well. True? or No? ......For the
>Getrag
record
>and people researching
it.
>
>Thanks
>
>Darc
>>
>> Yes, i am
listening. The place you need to contact if you want one is East
>>
street auto.
>> Phone; 901-774-5374
>> Talk to Jim and
please tell him i told you about this deal.
>> I believe he is getting
$400 for each piece.
wce@bc.sympatico.ca wrote:
> At
least one aftermarket maker of the output shaft (Italian) is now available (see
the
> Summation on Getrag posting)
> another maker in USA was
producing aftermarket.
The company that makes the transaxle's VCU (Viscous
Coupling Unit) for
Getrag (it IS subcontracted out) is in Italy and is called
"GKN". The
output shaft connects directly to the VCU, and may
be made by GKN
also...
Jack Tertadian
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
> US firm was making these, and if I
remember
> correctly, transfer case replacements as well.the Getrag
record
> and people researching it.
> Darc
Found it...
Kormex Trans Parts, ask for Frank Martin
1800-429-5464. He says they
have both small and large shafts, heat
treated to Rockwell 60C (!).
"Tell him I sent you there", we have
had conversations... :)
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Jan 27 09:16:09
1999
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Date:
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
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Hey a while back someone posted a really good document
comparing the
differences between awd and 4wd. Does anyone happen to know
this link?
wce@bc.sympatico.ca wrote:
> >
retarded timing: not enough octane for boost
> >
-->detonating-->knock sensor-->ignition timing retarding; gas
>
> still burning/BLOWTORCHING into exhaust manifold. Use
> >
higher octane gas. seen drop 100F using race gas 114 octane
> water injection as fix? WI
> might be
solution It may make things last longer; distilled water
> for less
corrosive. Thoughts?
> Darc
Water injection done properly could help somewhat I
think. Would be a
hassle to actually do it but could help. Unsure
how MUCH, how much more
boost could run with same octane. The company
making the quality unit
isn't at all specific about that either, I
corresponded with them months
back.
Jack T.
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Jan 27 09:30:41
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Team3S: GT-Alley part
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GT-Alley had a part that was supposed to convert the
pop-ups to a
projector setup. Has anyone seen this part or know how I
can get it now
that GT-Alley is out of business? Can I custom fab
something like this
inexpensively? GT-Alley wanted like $2000 for the
part. But I know
that it is possible. A setup like that might
drop a few lbs. off the
car from the motors, etc.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Jan 27 09:35:18
1999
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From: "Stealth"
<cirrus@shore.intercom.net>
To:
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Subject:
Re: Team3S: GT-Alley part
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:35:12
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>GT-Alley had a part that was supposed to
convert the pop-ups to a
>projector setup. Has anyone seen this part
or know how I can get it now
>that GT-Alley is out of
business?
GT Alley is out of business? I've been off the lists
for several months so I
am a bit behind the times here.
What happened? Why did he go out of
business?
What is he doing now? Does he still have the
3000GT?
Robyn
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Jan 27 09:57:46
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Robyn;
The sordid details are in the archives. Go there to get
up to speed..
Best
Darc
>
>
> GT Alley is out of business?
I've been off the lists for several months so I
> am a bit behind the
times here.
>
> What happened? Why did he go out of
business?
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Jan 27 11:48:17
1999
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From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
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Subject:
Re: Team3S: '95 R/T TT mods (hp contest)
References:
<00e901be49b6$26c569e0$4e010bce@user>
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I know that this message was sent to the list in err,
but since it was
posted...
Oskar wrote:
>
> I am looking for the next
hp mod, which in my case will be a boost
> controller. I'm having a
hard time deciding on exhaust. There are so many
> different
theories out there regarding the value of upgrading the stock
>
exhaust. I know Jim M. is of the belief that this does not make a
>
difference. So, now that I see what mods you've got I must ask
your
> opinion. Do you see an improvement compared to stock?
Do you think that
> cat-back alone will matter?
Just to clarify, my position on aftermarket exhaust
is:
a) an aftermarket exhaust won't make a heck of a lot of
difference when
running 1.1 bar or less of boost
b) significant performance improvements from an
aftermarket exhaust
system can really only be realized when the ENTIRE system
is replaced
from the turbos back
> Maybe you will know more after comparing to
Jim's car on the dyno!
It should be very revealing and I plan to post the
results early next
week. But considering recent threads on this list
and Mike's recent EGT
readings, it would seem that money would be better
spent on fuel
delivery upgrades rather than a cat-back exhaust
system.
*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 70/84% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, TS
(so far): 166mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9
mph
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Jan 27 12:09:57
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Message-ID: <36AF757B.E0F7F0D2@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
Date:
Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:22:19 +0100
From: Matthews <matthews@wiesbaden.netsurf.de>
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Subject:
Team3S: stumbling problem (was: Advice needed on boost gauge
installation)
References: <000a01be4a0b$1671b940$0500a8c0@beast.kingdom.com>
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"Barry E. King" wrote:
>
> The
hose at the plenum (intake manifold) which senses manifold pressure for
>
the fuel pressure regulator sees boost and vaccuum. That is the
correct
> place to tap in for a boost gauge since that is what the engine
is actually
> seeing and is typically what the user would expect to see
also.
My '94 TT developed an annoying stumbing problem
immediately after
installation of the Blitz BOV that may be related to the
above. At the
moment I prefer the stumble to the hoot, but I'd rather
have a car that
doesn't hoot OR stumble, as this distracts me from my heat
shield
resonating and my lifters ticking! :-|
Description of the behavior: If I accelerate and then
lift off of the
throttle completely, about one second later, the car will
stumble
momentarily (ie- it bucks slightly, more noticable in lower gears
of
course). If I accelerate and then push in the clutch as I lift
the
throttle, about one second later the RPMs will drop WAY down (250
rpm?)
momentarily and then come back up to normal idle. If I downshift
to
bring the RPMs up, there is no stumble. If I give it just a tad of
gas,
staying out of the boost, then it usually does not stumble when I
lift
off.
So, I figure the problem must be either the vacuum
lines or the intake
hoses.
The Blitz BOV hose is now hooked into the front fitting
on the intake
plenum along with the stock BOV hose and the SAVC-R solonoid
hose. I
assume that the fuel pressure regulator's manifold pressure
hose is
attached to the rear plenum fitting, but is all of the hose now
hanging
off the front fitting somehow causing a fuel delivery problem under
the
conditions described above? Too much air, not enough
fuel...
Or, is it more likely that the Blitz BOV is venting too
much of the
intake under the conditions descrived above? Too much fuel,
not enough
air...
Or, is it more likely something else?
TIA for any suggestions you might have!
*** 3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030
***
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~matthews/stealth.html
Jet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 70/84% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Metal Matrix
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, TS
(so far): 166mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9
mph
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Jan 27 13:59:43
1999
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From: "Nexus
Motorsports" <nexus@alleyesonme.com>
To:
"Team 3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Magazine articles in relation to advertising income
Date: Wed, 27 Jan
1999 16:59:10 -0500
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Hi gang,
I just signed up for the list about a week
ago. I had about 10 minutes =
worth of free lunch time today (very rare
these days!) and I was surfing =
through the archives section. One
thing I found interesting is a thread =
on magazine articles in relation to
advertising income. One of the =
import industries first magazine is
often cited in the thread and there =
is a good reason why (no names
mentioned, but you know what mag I'm =
talking about). I don't know if
anyone ever brought up the real answer, =
but here is the word from some
people in the know: Many of the editors =
and writers of this magazine are
either frat brothers or just went to =
college with the big players of some
major manufactures they push. =
Another editor of that magazine owns a
fabrication business who's =
business name you see in almost every
issue. Next time you pick up a =
copy of the magazine, skim through the
articles and you can consistently =
see the name of one tuning shop, one
fabrication shop, and one of the =
"big four" manufactures that
they push. Every single month. Every once =
in awhile, you'll see
one of those cheesy articles that seems to do =
nothing but act as a press
release for the company's product. These are =
the odd ball companies
that the magazine editors really have no ties to. =
Chances are, they
are threatening to pull their ads! This industry =
basically started
out in one city, so everyone knows everyone else. I =
give credit to
all the successful shops and individual racers out there =
(especially in the
mid west and on the east coast) that don't have the =
big ads or background
ties to Cali. Chances are, they made it on their =
own merit and not
with their "connections". =20
Just wanted to let you
guys know to be careful out there. =20
Chien=20
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3
HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1
=
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML
4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT
size=3D3>Hi
gang,</FONT></FONT><FONT=20
size=3D3></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D3></FONT></FONT><FONT
size=3D3>I =
just signed=20
up for the list about a week ago.
I had about 10 minutes worth of =
free=20
lunch time today (very rare
these days!) and I was surfing through the
=
archives=20
section. One thing I found interesting is a thread
on magazine =
articles in=20
relation to advertising income. One
of the import industries first =
magazine is often cited in the thread and there is a
good reason why (no =
names=20
mentioned, but you know what mag I'm
talking about). I don't know =
if=20
anyone ever brought up the
real answer, but here is the word from some =
people in=20
the know: Many
of the editors and writers of this magazine are either =
frat=20
brothers
or just went to college with the big players of some major
=
manufactures=20
they push. Another editor of that magazine
owns a fabrication =
business=20
who's business name you see in almost
every issue. Next time you =
pick up a=20
copy of the magazine,
skim through the articles and you can consistently =
see the=20
name of
one tuning shop, one fabrication shop, and one of the
"big=20
four" manufactures that they push. Every
single month. =
Every=20
once in awhile, you'll see one of those
cheesy articles that seems to do =
nothing=20
but act as a press release
for the company's product. These are =
the odd=20
ball companies
that the magazine editors really have no ties to.
=
Chances=20
are, they are threatening to pull their ads! This
industry =
basically=20
started out in one city, so everyone knows
everyone else. I give =
credit to=20
all the successful shops
and individual racers out there (especially in =
the mid=20
west and on
the east coast) that don't have the big ads or background =
ties
to=20
Cali. Chances are, they made it on their own merit and not
with
=
their=20
"connections".
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D3>Just wanted to let
you guys know to be careful
out=20
there.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D""
size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D3>Chien
=
<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Jan 27 14:59:24
1999
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From:
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To: "3000/Stealth
Technical List" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Plug Gap Theories
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:01:07
-0500
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There has been some reference to potential HP gains by
reducing plug gap.
The only reason to reduce plug gap is if your engine is
missing out at high
boost/rpm. Best performance will occur with the
largest gap you can run and
still maintain a spark. The tricky part is
when you start to push boost, it
makes it harder for your stock ignition to
cross the plug gap. If this is
happening, you will notice it as an
engine miss. If your engine is not
missing out at high rpm, than
changing the gap won't make any difference.
Regards,
DaveT/92TT
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Jan 27 15:18:26
1999
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Date:
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From: Dave <monarchd+team3s@colorado.edu>
Organization:
noticably, very little..
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Subject:
Team3S: Questions: 4WS, custom exhaust, motor flush
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(my apologies if this is a double post. I didn't
see it come up on
the list, and assumed the first try got black-holed because
my
address wasn't set correctly.)
Greetings,
First off, let me say.... THANK YOU! I
signed up for the "other"
lists several months ago, and have had to
wade through 99%
crap to find the occasional nugget of useful
knowledge. This
list is all I ever wanted in trying to obtain info on
my VR4!
I have been lurking on this list for a little over a
month now,
and decided it is finally time to speak up. I have a stock
91 VR4
with 107K on it (although only 45K on the engine). I have
three
questions that hopefully aren't too lame for this list.
Q1: As far as I can tell, the previous owner probably
smacked the
right rear lightly, probably hiting a curb. I have replaced
the
stub axle and the rotor on that corner. The problem now is
that
it won't align properly. Apparently, the right rear is at
it's
max adjustment and is still out of spec. The measurements
are:
FL -.7
Camber FR -.3
3.7 Caster
3.9
-.1
Toe -.02
RL -1.2
Camber RR -.9
.09 Toe
-.50
The alignment guy told me to go to a body shop and have
it lightly
pulled (where the control arm mounts?), and then he'd try
again.
So here's the question: Is he missing anything on the 4WS
that
needs to be disconnected to take accurate measurements? I do
trust
the shop (and him), so I'm inclined to believe his
recommendation.
btw, the reason for all of this is that the steering on
the car is
extremely jumpy on uneven and rough road. It does have
Michelin
MS300 all seasons that are pretty worn (and a little uneven) but
I
can't attribute all of the steering problems to them. The
really
strange thing is that it's not as bad when the back end is
loaded
with weight. ie. full gas tank and stuff in the cargo
area. The
really really strange thing is that the behaviour isn't
consistant.
It never actually goes away, but it manifests itself in a
varying
amount of "jumpiness". This last bit makes me wonder
if whatever
controls the rear steering is not operating
properly.
I haven't been able to get the car on a rack to check
if anything
is out of whack, but the guy from from the body shop said he
could
visually see that the wheel wasn't tracking straight (4WS aside).
I
have been under it, and nothing appears to be bent or damaged, but
I
doubt I have the critical eye for this type of diagnosis.
any specific suggestions on what to ask or
request?
Q2: I had a main cat gasket blow out, and took it
to a local exhaust
place to replace it. (The bolts were frozen and I
wasn't about to
break one trying to do it myself.) While I was there I
asked about
a custom replacement, and the guy said I could do it really
cheaply
if I only replaced the pipes from the Y to the tips. The
question:
does replacing the section between the cat and the Y matter
that
much? In other words, what does a cat back system like the
Borla
gain you over a minimal custom replacement as I suggested?
Q3: I noticed a few people recommending using
a motor flush as part
of a process to eliminated lifter ticking. I have
used Gunk motor
flush many times in the past (on other cars), but stopped
after I
heard that it would do bad things to internal seals. Any
truth
or rebuttle to this?
Thanks for allowing me to ramble.. Sorry for
the long post..
Dave
91 VR4
(eagerly awaiting an AAM filter
kit!)
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Jan 27 16:02:55
1999
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Dave wrote:
big snip
> Q3: I noticed a few people recommending
using a motor flush as part
> of a process to eliminated lifter
ticking. I have used Gunk motor
> flush many times in the past (on
other cars), but stopped after I
> heard that it would do bad things to
internal seals. Any truth
> or rebuttle to this?
I'm sure you'll get ample feedback on the other
queries, so I'll limit my response to
this: Gunk worked well for me...took
out the tick...and I'll likely use it if required
again. I expect this will
not have to occur for some time. Using it on regular basis
(like at every oil
change) may in fact cause seal problems. The problem with the
necessity for
such a repeated flush scenario is that the interval between changes
is
probably way too long, or the oil is not synthetic and is baking under
high temps (be
sure and allow idle for a couple of minutes before shutdown).
Use synthetic, change it
often, and do not shut down immediately upon
reaching your parking spot..
FWIW , it would better serve the list and the archives
if you post questions separate,
under separate subject headers.
Best
Darc
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Jan 27 16:38:15
1999
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Synchros
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I got a reply from Hurst Shifters today about the
synchros. The message said
they don't have any tranny parts. That is all the
message said, so I guess
they don't know anyone who does have tranny
parts.
Fooey.
Paul Klusman
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Jan 27 16:39:06
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Ouput shaft in the '91-'92 Transmissions...
synchros?
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In a message dated 99-01-27 12:01:05 EST, you
write:
<< Found it...
Kormex Trans Parts, ask
for Frank Martin 1800-429-5464. He says they
have both small and
large shafts, heat treated to Rockwell 60C (!).
"Tell him I sent
you there", we have had conversations... :)
Jack
Tertadian >>
Jack,
You have probably already checked into this, but... can
Kormex Trans Parts
make synchros?
Wayne, same question for East Street Auto?
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Jan 27 16:50:30
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Subject: Team3S: Synchros
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I just sent a message to Vernon Naidoo about BRE
Engines tranny mod. (See post
by josesini@engin.u... on 01/26) I asked him to
advise if BRE could rebuild a
tranny with worn synchros for an AWD
3000GT/Stealth.
It sounds like BRE is doing something to the AWD tranny
on the Eclipse/Talon
to improve shifting. I'm thinking they MIGHT be
doing something to the
synchros - modifying them, substituting from another
car, making new ones,
etc.
...which brings up a question: does Getrag make tranny
components for the
Eclipse/Talon as well as our cars? Just
wondering.
Paul Klusman
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Jan 27 17:14:54
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Re: Team3S: Synchros
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Hey Paul;
You have your nose to ground on this one...no scent
goes undetected!!
Thanks from all of us in advance, for the
solution to our problem which you are bound
and determined to find ;-) Gotta
love ya for it! BTW the Hurst response likely doesn't
mean anything
more than some half wit responding on their behalf who will not, or does
not,
think of referral as an North American business praxes. I slipped
"North" in there,
couldn't resist. :-)
Best
Darc
> I got a reply from Hurst Shifters today about the
synchros. The message said
> they don't have any tranny parts. That is all
the message said, so I guess
> they don't know anyone who does have tranny
parts.
>
> Fooey.
>
> Paul Klusman
>
> For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
Q2: I had a main cat gasket blow out, and took it to a
local exhaust
place to replace it. (The bolts were frozen and I wasn't
about to
break one trying to do it myself.) While I was there I asked
about
a custom replacement, and the guy said I could do it really
cheaply
if I only replaced the pipes from the Y to the tips. The
question:
does replacing the section between the cat and the Y matter
that
much? In other words, what does a cat back system like the
Borla
gain you over a minimal custom replacement as I suggested?
<end of
snip>
===============================
Dave...
re: Q2: I believe the catback exhaust netted me very
little hp gain. Borla
and GReddy make claims of 10%, which is unlikely. There
was a noticeable
improvement in several areas when I replaced the downpipe
and removed the
cat (for off road use). However, this was "seat of the
pants" measurement.
We have three owners in Europe who are going to an
all wheel dyno soon. One
does not have exhaust mods, two have complete
exhaust mods. It will be VERY
interesting to see the results. Think of it in
terms of the hose analogy. If
you increase the pressure on the front end,
you're limited to the flow of
the smallest diameter piece of hose, whether
it's at the beginning, in the
middle, or at the end. Personally, my advice is
to do the whole system,
particularly if you're planning on turbo mods at some
point.
BTW...I'm with Darcy on his response to the motor flush
question (and his
suggestion to break your questions into discrete
posts).
Looking forward...Chris
1995 Glacier Pearl White VR4 (w/HKS Super Flo intake,
HKS SBOV, Predator dry
cell battery, bored and polished throttle body,
Magnecore 8.5mm wires, HKS
double platinum plugs gapped at .034", GReddy
PRofec A boost controller,
GReddy turbo timer, ATR downpipe and test pipe,
GReddy catback exhaust,
Eibach 1" drop progressive springs)
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Jan 27 17:29:57
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From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: stumbling problem (was: Advice needed on boost gauge
installation)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:30:30 -0700
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Hi Jim,
I also have the Blitz BOV installed. My boost
gauge taps into the FPR line
as does my AVC-R. Actually, so does my
MASC =) I need to perform the Bob
Fontanna plenum multi-tap deal one of
these days.
Anyway, stuff interjected below.
> -----Original Message-----
> My '94 TT
developed an annoying stumbing problem immediately after
> installation of
the Blitz BOV that may be related to the above. At the
> moment I
prefer the stumble to the hoot, but I'd rather have a car that
> doesn't
hoot OR stumble, as this distracts me from my heat shield
> resonating and
my lifters ticking! :-|
Absolutely. Have to hear those lifters
;)
> Description of the behavior: If I accelerate and
then lift off of the
> throttle completely, about one second later, the
car will stumble
> momentarily (ie- it bucks slightly, more noticable in
lower gears of
> course). If I accelerate and then push in the
clutch as I lift the
> throttle, about one second later the RPMs will drop
WAY down (250 rpm?)
> momentarily and then come back up to normal
idle. If I downshift to
> bring the RPMs up, there is no
stumble. If I give it just a tad of gas,
> staying out of the boost,
then it usually does not stumble when I lift
> off.
>
> So, I
figure the problem must be either the vacuum lines or the intake
>
hoses.
I would suspect pressure bearing inlet hoses
first. Vaccuum lines can cause
problems too but in my experience the
problems are a little less noticeable
unless severe, like one completely
falling off or cracked all the way
through. Small pinholes cause more
subtle problems IME.
> The Blitz BOV hose is now hooked into the front
fitting on the intake
> plenum along with the stock BOV hose and the
SAVC-R solonoid hose.
Double and triple check those pesky hoses between the
Blitz pipe, rubber
connectors and the stock bypass valve. They can be
deceptively snug and
still leak. Sometimes it is difficult to see that
they are crooked. Make
sure the hoses are installed "straight
on" as in not cocked at an angle and
that all clamps are quite
snug.
> I assume that the fuel pressure regulator's
manifold pressure hose is
> attached to the rear plenum fitting, but is
all of the hose now hanging
> off the front fitting somehow causing a fuel
delivery problem under the
> conditions described above? Too much
air, not enough fuel...
The FPR hose is on the rear of the plenum (on the
engine side of the TB) and
is easily distuinguishable since it runs back to
the fire wall to the FPR
(beside the stock boost solenoid). The hose at
the front of the plenum
should have a T in it now after the blitz
installation. The Blitz goes to
the front line which attaches to the
plenum and then off to its original
location. If this is not so then
perhaps that is the source of your
troubles.
> Or, is it more likely that the Blitz BOV is
venting too much of the
> intake under the conditions descrived
above? Too much fuel, not enough
> air...
Possible I suppose but it would have to be backed way
off were that to be
the case. How is it adjusted now? You can try
to tighten it up by
loosening the lock nut and turning the adjustment screw
clockwise (down)
which will make it take more pressure before it blows
off. Don't turn it
too far though. The maximum adjustment is
somewhere where the screw sits
just ever so slightly above the lock
nut. Mine leaks a little above 18-20
PSI or so. There is a
stiffer spring available to remmedy this.
> Or, is it more likely something else?
I would suggest that it has something to do with the
Blitz installation.
Recheck everything and see what shakes out.
> TIA for any suggestions you might
have!
Welcome as always.
> -Jim
Regards,
Barry
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In a message dated 99-01-27 18:20:13 EST, you
write:
<<
btw, the reason for all of this is
that the steering on the car is
extremely jumpy on uneven and rough
road. It does have Michelin
MS300 all seasons that are pretty
worn (and a little uneven) but I
can't attribute all of the steering
problems to them. The really
strange thing is that it's not as
bad when the back end is loaded
with weight. ie. full gas tank
and stuff in the cargo area.
Dave, my '91 VR4 has very new Michelin tires and was
recently aligned. The car
tracks perfectly straight, but I do notice some
steering "jumpiness" as you
describe on worn pavement. There is
some construction in my area where new,
perfectly smooth and flat pavement
leads to older worn pavement. On the new
pavement, the car tracks perfectly.
As soon as I hit the old pavement, the car
wants to veer of to one side or
the other - I have to literaly hold the car on
centerline.
The worn pavement is so old you can actually see where
years of traffic has
created two grooves or low spots where the tires contact
the road. The
"jumpiness" gets worse with braking and less under
acceleration. This is
consistent with your observation of improved steering
when the rear of the car
is loaded.
I think it might have something to do with wide tires
wanting to crawl up the
side of the low spots in the pavement. It is
something I first noticed while
driving a Toyota Supra I used to own that
also had wide tires and gave the
same braking/acceleration responses as the
VR4.
Actually, the VR4 is a bit more jumpy than the Supra
was during steady state
driving (no accel/braking). I have a theory for this.
Consider that the AWD
transmission is supposed to deliver more power to the
rear wheels than the
front. During heavy acceleration there is no doubt that
all 4 wheels are
pulling forward - 55% power to the rear wheels and 45% power
to the front (I
think those are the correct numbers). Under this condition
the steering is
stable. But let off the gas and the car wants to dart left or
right.
If the rear wheels are getting more power than the
front, the rear ones must
be continually trying to "outrun" the
front wheels somehow (at least that is
how my brain is trying to interpret
this idea). I'm wondering if the AWD drive
system might be causing the front
wheels to RESIST forward motion during low
power cruising - giving a similar
steering response to slight braking as far
as the front wheels are concerned.
My gut tells me this is nonsense, but...
hmmmm...
Of course the other thing is the fact that the VR4 is
much wider than the
Supra, placing the tires further towards the outer edges
of the grooves in the
worn pavement. THAT is probably the real source of the
handling difference
between the two cars.
Anyway, once you do get your car straightened out, you
may still have
difficulty steering on worn pavement as I do - unless of
course there is
something wrong with my car as well. (Hope not!)
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Jan 27 18:03:31
1999
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From:
"Dennis Moore" <stealth@kiva.net>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: GT-Alley part
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:04:50
-0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME
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I've attached an email I received from Henry Yam about
them, contact him if
you want more info.
Dennis
>GT-Alley had a part that was supposed to
convert the pop-ups to a
>projector setup. Has anyone seen this part
or know how I can get it now
>that GT-Alley is out of business? Can
I custom fab something like this
>inexpensively? GT-Alley wanted
like $2000 for the part. But I know
>that it is possible. A
setup like that might drop a few lbs. off the
>car from the motors,
etc.
>
>--
>Andrew Brilliant
>Senior Progammer/Team
Council
>Internet Database Development Team
>Attitude Ink,
Inc.
>http://www.attitudeink.com/
>
>
>For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
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Those headlight conversions are available. I inquired
about the pricing on
them and I was informed that they would cost $730 for
the Set of lights.
This is kinda reasonable. Considering headlight conversion
kits cost $100,
plus if you bought two sets of catz lights at $250 each, it
would come out
to around this pricing. Plus this comes with all the necessary
hardware.
I did find a product which allows you to control how high your
popup
lights come up from in the car. Sorta like an electronic boost
controller.
That price is roughly $150.
------=_NextPart_000_00A2_01BE4A38.ADA5C9A0--
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Jan 27 18:26:02
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From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Questions: 4WS, custom exhaust, motor flush
Date: Wed, 27
Jan 1999 19:26:37 -0700
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Actually, the front diff is slightly higher geared
(lower numerically) than
the rear so that the front end pulls the car along a
wee bit. This is
common practice in 4WD pickups also. It is done
so that the rear end
doesn't want to swap ends so easily.
AWD/4WD vehicles tend to want to wander a bit
anyway. Since the front
wheels are driving wheels they tend to pull up
on irregularities in the
road. This phenomenon is exacerbated by wide
tires.
Remember that the VR4 (and 3K/S in general) has a very
pronounced forward
weight bias which can make the car feel a little more
excitable under
certain situations. This is not a big deal
though. I have literally had my
car airborne at over 135 MPH (on a
rather rough road with many dips and
curves - my favorite local test road)
without any nasty behavior from the
car and that was with the stock
suspension. I would not do this on purpose
again nor suggest that
anyone try it but the car handles amazingly well for
what it is.
If the car is truly being extremely jumpy then there
may well be something
wrong with the suspension.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
>
<<
> btw, the reason for all of this is that the steering on
the car is
> extremely jumpy on uneven and rough road. It does
have Michelin
> MS300 all seasons that are pretty worn (and a little
uneven) but I
> can't attribute all of the steering problems to
them. The really
> strange thing is that it's not as bad when
the back end is loaded
> with weight. ie. full gas tank and
stuff in the cargo area.
> >>
<snipped>
> If the rear wheels are getting more power than the
front, the
> rear ones must
> be continually trying to
"outrun" the front wheels somehow (at
> least that is
>
how my brain is trying to interpret this idea). I'm wondering if
> the AWD
drive
> system might be causing the front wheels to RESIST forward
motion
> during low
> power cruising - giving a similar steering
response to slight
> braking as far
> as the front wheels are
concerned. My gut tells me this is
> nonsense, but...
>
hmmmm...
<snipped>
> Paul Klusman
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Jan 27 20:37:17
1999
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Subject:
Re: Team3S: Ouput shaft in the '91-'92 Transmissions... synchros?
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<fba8f5a8.36afb0db@aol.com>
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Klusmanp@aol.com
wrote:
> Jack, You have probably already checked into this, but...
can Kormex Trans Parts make synchros?
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Jan 27 20:46:29
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From: "Marc Spinale" <mspinale@mediaone.net>
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Subject:
Team3S: RE: Onto the 4th transmission?
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:45:51
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My 93 3kgt VR4 is now on it's third transmission.
Thankfully,
the warranty covered it once again. This time, the trans is
making noise as the car idles in neutral. The sound could almost
be mistaken for an internal engine problem (thankfully, it's not!
:) The noise does stop eventually after depressing the
clutch.
Pulling back the throw-out bearing by hand has not effect --
it's
inside alright...
The previous tranies never had this
problem and this rebuilt unit
has made some noise from day one.
The dealer said that they all do that. The last two did
not! Has
anyone heard of this problem? Does it sound like
something to
worry about?
I'm trying to get Mitsu to consider one more
swap. So far, since
it works, I think they're not going to go for
it.
-Marc Spinale
BTW: In case your wondering about the strength of
the last two
transmissions -- that was never the problem. The
problem(s) were
related to shifting. From 2nd to 3rd was difficult in
the
original tranny and from 1st to 2nd was an issue on unit #2. It
was a problem from the time the car left the garage!
They "don't all do that". That's a
dealer cop out for either not knowing
what the problem is or not wanting to
fix it.
It could be a number of things. Debris left over
in the bell housing from a
previous clutch, a failing clutch, a bad machining
job on the flywheel,
marginal throwout bearing and possibly even
maladjustment. I have assumed
that it is not the transmission itself
since sometimes it is not easy to
tell. If it IS the transmission then
something just isn't right and that
would likely mean replacing
it.
So who knows for sure without having someone competent
check it out. Sadly
it sounds like your dealer isn't interested.
I've heard that story several
times on different items. In only one
case was the problem found and that
was after I pressed hard. Even then
they missed fully resolving the problem
(cracked engine mounts) because they
missed one and the problem wasn't
totally resolved until I discovered it
myself. Any turbo related problems
you may as well do it yourself as in
my experience (4 for 4 dealers so far)
they are clueless as to their
workings.
I'd be inclined to drive it for a while and bug them
again if it doesn't go
away as the (presumably) remanufactured unit wears
in.
Maybe I am in the wrong city for Mitsu deals ;)
Hopefully you will have
better luck.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
> My 93 3kgt VR4
is now on it's third transmission. Thankfully,
> the warranty
covered it once again. This time, the trans is
> making noise as the car
idles in neutral. The sound could almost
> be mistaken for an
internal engine problem (thankfully, it's not!
> :) The noise
does stop eventually after depressing the clutch.
> Pulling back the
throw-out bearing by hand has not effect -- it's
> inside
alright...
>
> The previous tranies never had this problem and this
rebuilt unit
> has made some noise from day one.
>
> The
dealer said that they all do that. The last two did not! Has
>
anyone heard of this problem? Does it sound like something to
>
worry about?
> I'm trying to get Mitsu to consider one more swap. So
far, since
> it works, I think they're not going to go for
it.
>
> -Marc Spinale
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Jan 27 22:20:49
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From: Dan Jett
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Subject:
Team3S: Clutch/tranny problems...
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** High Priority **
Hi there...
New to the board, but I read some messages about clutch
problems that
caught my eye, and I figured I'd throw in my $.02....
I had
a Centerforce dual friction clutch installed 4 months ago, on
my 92 Stealth
TT. A few weeks ago, I noticed a squeaking noise under
the hood. It didn't
sound like it was a belt, so I took it to the
dealership and had them inspect
it. They determined that it was the
throwout bearing, although I can hear the
squeaking noise even when
in nuetral. Funny thing is, sometimes it is louder
than usual, and it
doesn't seem partial to a hot OR a cold engine.
Apart
from all that, I hear a chattering when the car is in nuetral,
but when I
disengage the clutch, it goes away. I took the car in to
the clutch shop I
had the Centerforce installed, and they pretty much
told me they don't hear
any problems at all. The chattering only
occurs when the car is
cold.
About the only thing I can think of that fits all these symptoms
is
that they milled the flywheel a little too much, or it has some
runout.
Unfortunately, I'm having a problem in getting someone to
diagnose and repair
the problem.
Any thoughts?
"Barry E. King" wrote:
>
AWD/4WD vehicles tend to want to wander a bit anyway. Since the
front
> wheels are driving wheels they tend to pull up on irregularities
in the
> road. This phenomenon is exacerbated by wide
tires.
I'm assuming "pull" implies
acceleration. my problems occur more while
coasting or braking.
I agree that the tires are an issue, but I have driven
plenty of HUGE tired
vehicles including numerous 930's and a 94 VR4 that were
nowhere near this
bad.
> Remember that the VR4 (and 3K/S in general) has a
very pronounced forward
> weight bias which can make the car feel a little
more excitable under
> certain situations. This is not a big deal
though. I have literally had my
> car airborne at over 135 MPH (on a
rather rough road with many dips and
> curves - my favorite local test
road) without any nasty behavior from the
> car and that was with the
stock suspension. I would not do this on purpose
> again nor suggest
that anyone try it but the car handles amazingly well for
> what it
is.
yahoo! :)
> If the car is truly
being extremely jumpy then there may well be something
> wrong with the
suspension.
exactly what I'm trying to determine! :) I guess
I'm trying to find out what
might be damaged or malfunctioning to cause such
abnormal behaviour. I was
hoping someone would say "hey, I had
the same problem and it was the xxx part."
I also realize that there are
a number of variables to isolate.
I guess I'll give the body shop a try and see what they
can determine.
Thanks to everybody that replied! It's wonderful
to be part of such a helpful
group!
sorry about the original multiple question post.
I know better now.
I realize this is pretty low-tech, but I thought
I'd share some info that
Mitsubishi couldn't help me with. I noticed
that only one of the lights in
the active-aero switch was coming on, and
figured, no biggie, I'll get a few
bulbs at the dealer. no dice.
buy a new $50 switch to replace a $0.75 bulb.
ahem, does this scenario
sound familiar? either that or the parts guy here
doesn't have a
clue.
solution: radio shack - part # 272-1092B contains
2 12V 60mA micro lamps that
aren't exact replacements (they're a tad shorter)
but they work just fine. you
only have to unhook the old bulb from the
plastic base and feed the new one in.
pretty obvious when you look at
it. I heard somebody refer to them as "grain
of wheat" bulbs
in case radio shack isn't in your area, maybe a hardware store
will have
them.
hope this is useful to somebody..
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 28 00:51:26
1999
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From:
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To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: stumbling problem with Blitz BOV
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:50:43
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Hi
I really hate "me to" posts but now I shall
post one.
Me to!
I have the same problem, idle goes down under 500 rpm
when I use the clutch (no throttle). The engine almost stalls and the headlight
dim and then it picks rpm up to normal level again.
I'm 100% sure that the problem is related to the Blitz
BOV becasue I didn't have this problem before I installed the BOV.
To me this isn't a big problem. (compared to finding
money to buy bigger turbos :) but I would be glad if anyone came up with a
solution.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 28 05:56:35
1999
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Subject:
Team3S: Bought a T connector
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:58:30
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Thanks to everyone that replied to my need for help
with connecting my boost
gauge. I bought a brass T connector from
Wal-Mart last night. It fits on
the rubber hoses in my car
perfectly. I'll probably do the complete install
of the gauge tonight
or this weekend. Then its time to think about that
boost
controller.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 28 06:34:20
1999
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From:
"=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mikael_=C5kesson?=" <vr4@bahnhof.se>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Fuel pressure
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:33:34 +0100
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Hi
Are our fuel pressure the same all the time or does the
pressure increase if boost and RPM change?
If pressure changes, what is it that controlls it's
function?
What's the stock fuel pressure on a
VR-4?
How high pressure shall be used with 15G turbos? (560
injectors)
/Mikael (it's time for the next level)
Hi Dave;
Barry seems to have covered the gambit with his
response/s, however, excessive or
erratic wander, particularly with uneven
pavement (where similar vehicles do not) may
mean it's time to check your
suspension components ...bent tie rods, worn ball joints,
etc. Either of
these could cause something of the problem you note.
Best
Darc
Dave wrote:
> "Barry E. King" wrote:
>
>
> AWD/4WD vehicles tend to want to wander a bit anyway. Since the
front
> > wheels are driving wheels they tend to pull up on
irregularities in the
> > road. This phenomenon is exacerbated by
wide tires.
>
> I'm assuming "pull" implies
acceleration. my problems occur more while
> coasting or
braking. I agree that the tires are an issue, but I have driven
>
plenty of HUGE tired vehicles including numerous 930's and a 94 VR4 that
were
> nowhere near this bad.
>
> > Remember that the VR4
(and 3K/S in general) has a very pronounced forward
> > weight bias
which can make the car feel a little more excitable under
> > certain
situations. This is not a big deal though. I have literally had
my
> > car airborne at over 135 MPH (on a rather rough road with many
dips and
> > curves - my favorite local test road) without any nasty
behavior from the
> > car and that was with the stock suspension.
I would not do this on purpose
> > again nor suggest that anyone try it
but the car handles amazingly well for
> > what it is.
>
>
yahoo! :)
>
> > If the car is truly being extremely jumpy
then there may well be something
> > wrong with the
suspension.
>
> exactly what I'm trying to determine! :) I
guess I'm trying to find out what
> might be damaged or malfunctioning to
cause such abnormal behaviour. I was
> hoping someone would say
"hey, I had the same problem and it was the xxx part."
> I also
realize that there are a number of variables to isolate.
>
> I guess
I'll give the body shop a try and see what they can determine.
>
>
Thanks to everybody that replied! It's wonderful to be part of such a
helpful
> group!
>
> sorry about the original multiple
question post. I know better now.
>
> Dave
> 91
VR4
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
The VR4 FPR is boost dependant. Actual fuel
pressure measured in the fuel
line before the injector changes with
boost.
The injectors require a differential pressure between
the inlet and the
outlet side of 36-45 PSI in order to operate
correctly. That means the fuel
pressure must be increased to compensate
for each 1 PSI increase in boost.
The stock FPR does this more or less but
based on observation may top out
too soon. Could be other factors
though too like fuel line and even the
fuel pump that ultimately limit what
pressure can be maintained.
The required fuel pressure is 36-45 psi plus 1 psi for
every psi of boost.
At 15 PSI manifold pressure you need 51-60 psi fuel
pressure *at the
injector*. You really don't need more pressure (than
that described by this
1 PSI for each PSI of boost) unless you are attmpting
to use fuel pressure
to adjust mixture. This can be done but it is
imprecise and not the desired
approach.
Note that this is regardless of turbo or injector
size. Pressure is one
thing, flow (capacity) is something completely
different and equally as
important as the pressure.
Stock FP is around 43 psi at idle and 0 vac., 36 psi
with a bit of vacuum as
I recall.
15Gs and 560 injectors require a good sized pump
(280-320 lph). Furthermore
and at least as importantly that fuel pump
must be able to deliver the
required FLOW of fuel at the required LINE
pressure, not injector
differential pressure. Example, 90 gph @ 43 psi
is great for idling...hehe.
You need to know what that 90 gph pump can put
out at the required fuel
pressure for your desired boost level, which is more
like 56-60 PSI line
pressure. Most fuel pumps have a pressure
point at which they become less
efficient. Either pressure or flow will
need to drop at that point.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
Hi
>
> Are our fuel pressure the same all the time or does the
pressure
> increase if boost and RPM change?
>
> If pressure
changes, what is it that controlls it's function?
>
> What's the
stock fuel pressure on a VR-4?
>
> How high pressure shall be
used with 15G turbos? (560 injectors)
>
> /Mikael (it's time for the
next level)
Fuel pressure changes as boost increases. The
stock pressure regulator
increases fuel pressure 1 PSI for every PSI of
boost. Pressure at idle is
43 PSI. When the charge air pressure
in the intake manifold increases
(where the injectors happen to be trying to
push fuel into) fuel pressure
must be increased correspondingly overcome
manifold pressure.
So, if you are using 20 PSI of boost, you want to be
able to maintain 63 PSI
of fuel pressure. The stock FPR appears to be
able to handle it
pressure-wise, but I'm not sure that the stock pump and
injectors can supply
enough fuel to match the A/F ratio needed at 20
PSI.
As an aside, when the RPMs are increased to over 3000,
the shunt on the fuel
pump is bypassed, increasing the voltage to the pump
which helps maintain
pressure when not under boost. That's my
understanding from the manual,
anyway. (Barry can probably give a far
more detailed description).
-Bob
> Are our fuel pressure the same all the time or
does the pressure
> increase if boost and RPM change?
>
> If
pressure changes, what is it that controlls it's function?
>
>
What's the stock fuel pressure on a VR-4?
>
> How high
pressure shall be used with 15G turbos? (560 injectors)
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 28 07:46:07
1999
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From:
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Subject:
RE: Team3S: Fuel pressure
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:45:21
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Thanks Bob and Barry for the quick replys.
Haven't processed everything thru my brain yet
:)
How much do the stock fuel pump flow??
/Mikael
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 28 08:25:48
1999
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Subject: Team3S: have you seen this vacunm tube?
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For those DOHC non-turbo owners on the
list:
I need help locating a vacumn tube
assembly's place on the engine. It is a
metal assembly consisting of 2 tubes,
about 24" long, and has 3 tabs to bolt
it down with. I need to know
where it physically goes on the engine.
I am assembling an
engine that somebody took apart.
Thanks,
Has anybody bought front calipers (4 piston) from
Autozone? The reason i
ask is because they gave me a price of $56.99 + 35.00
core charge. This
just doesn't seem right. If they are the correct calipers,
i'm going to
stock up on them, before they realize they are giving them away.
Please let
me know soon....
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 28 09:23:33
1999
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From:
"Wendlandt, Mark (MN51)" <MWendlan@cfsmo.honeywell.com>
To:
"'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'"
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Subject:
RE: Team3S: VR-4 front calipers
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:23:27
-0600
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I don't know about Autozone, but, Big Wheel Rossi
wanted $180+core each.
I would definitely jump on this if they are the right
ones!!!
Mark
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark
Wendlandt Honeywell CASSPO-Development
Phone:
957-3736 Pager:
601-0881
Email: Mark.Wendlandt@cfsmo.honeywell.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Has anybody bought front calipers (4 piston) from
Autozone? The reason i
ask is because they gave me a price of $56.99 + 35.00
core charge. This
just doesn't seem right. If they are the correct calipers,
i'm going to
stock up on them, before they realize they are giving them away.
Please let
me know soon....
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 28 10:48:15
1999
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Mitsu Engines and Clutches
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Just wanted to add another note
on Quality Import.... I had emailed them
Tuesday with some questions
regarding their parts and procedures on the 6G72
engines. Today I had a call
from a rep there, and was actually quite impressed
with what I heard. If
everything I was told is true, this may be a decent
alternative..the main
points being they are willing to work with list members
and give discounts -
and they have a 5 year parts and labor warrantee. The
engine is selling for
$2800 right now, which is a good bit cheaper than a new
Mits engine (even
from a dealer who discounts for list members.
If my
current engine endeaver fails, I am going to fly out to thier
rebuilding
facility in Wichita to look around, and I will give the list a
report on what
I see.
He did say they normally use aftermarket bearings,
but I could option to
have OEM installed if they built one for me. He also
did'nt seem too concerned
about problems with turning crankshafts, they do it
all the time.
Anyways, just to let you all know the
engines are about $500 cheaper than
the web site has them listed right
now.
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 28 10:54:34
1999
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Date:
Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:54:29 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
Organization:
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Subject:
Team3S: Re: Onto the 4th transmission?
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Marc Spinale wrote:
>
> My 93 3kgt VR4 is
now on it's third transmission. Thankfully,
> the warranty covered
it once again. This time, the trans is
> making noise as the car idles in
neutral. The sound could almost
> be mistaken for an internal engine
problem (thankfully, it's not!
> :) The noise does stop
eventually after depressing the clutch.
> Pulling back the throw-out
bearing by hand has not effect -- it's
> inside alright...
My '91 VR4 exhibits the exact same symptoms. The
guy I bought it from
had the tranny replaced about 32K ago. It sounds
like a noisy throwout
bearing or noisy output shaft bearing, sound goes away
when you depress
the clutch pedal. The sound persisted even after
changing to Redline
MTL in the tranny. I'll probably switch to Redline
MT90 soon though to
see if it has an affect. The sound hasn't gotten
any better or worse in
the 14 months and 25K miles I've owned
it.
--
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 28 11:10:09
1999
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From: Ken Middaugh <middaugh@omega.gat.com>
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S: Me too, was: stumbling problem with Blitz BOV
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> I really hate "me to" posts but now
I shall post one.
I don't hate "me too" posts because they are
extremely important in
identifying trends. I think posting abnormal
symptoms especially if it
might be related to an aftermarket product
installation is very valuable
information to the list. Had you posted
earlier, it might have played a
part in Jim's decision to purchase the same
product or consider an
alternative. Both your post and Jim's post will
certainly cause me to
consider an alternative until a solution is
found. I do wish this
valuable information was being compiled and
placed into the FAQ though.
Keep up the good info coming...
--
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 28 11:20:40
1999
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From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Me too, was: stumbling problem with Blitz BOV
Date: Thu, 28 Jan
1999 12:21:26 -0700
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I have had no problems with my Blitz that were not
related to installation.
It is IMO not the simplest installation in that it
is easy to get it not
quite right. Once the installation was perfectly
clean the Blitz has worked
as it should without stumbling or hesitation as
described by Jim and Mikael.
I used it before my turbo upgrade also so it saw
use with a basic upgrade
setup.
I am not convinced the price of the Blitz warrants the
unit however.
Although I am completely happy with mine and do not regret the
purchase, if
I were to get another one of this price range I would opt for
an
electronically actuated unit which run in the same price range. They
are
usually manufactured with much tighter cylinder clearances and therefore
are
not prone to leaking under boost. My Blitz will leak above around
18-20 PSI
which is likely not unique to the Blitz.
Regards,
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
> > I really
hate "me to" posts but now I shall post one.
>
> I don't
hate "me too" posts because they are extremely important in
>
identifying trends. I think posting abnormal symptoms especially if
it
> might be related to an aftermarket product installation is very
valuable
> information to the list. Had you posted earlier, it might
have played a
> part in Jim's decision to purchase the same product or
consider an
> alternative. Both your post and Jim's post will
certainly cause me to
> consider an alternative until a solution is
found. I do wish this
> valuable information was being compiled and
placed into the FAQ though.
> Keep up the good info
coming...
>
> --
>
> Ken Middaugh
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 28 11:23:52
1999
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From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: VR-4 front calipers
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:24:40
-0700
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Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
I am not saying these are not good quality calipers,
but all that glitters
is not gold, as it were.
Far too many automotive rebuilt units are done by
unsupervised, unqualified
"technicians" being paid nowehere near
what qualified people doing the same
work would be paid. Hence, quality
can suffer as you might imagine.
I would definitely check them out thoroughly before
spending this month's
paycheck on a bunch ;)
To qualify that, I used to buy alternators and starters
from them for
vehicles I didn't want to spend money on. Some places
offer a "lifetime"
gaurantee and end up replacing it every other
year or so. A PITA but it did
save dollars (but not time).
Personally I wouldn't do this with my VR4,
especially not with critical
components like brakes, but will do it on other
vehicles that play a more
utilitarian role. My '88 Astro went through 3
Autozone alternators and
2 starters in 24 months. At least I only paid for
one of each ;)
Free batteries every 2 years was nice as well...
Regards,
Barry
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Jan 28 16:15:09
1999
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From:
Brian Danley <bcdmad@concentric.net>
To:
"'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: stumbling problem with Blitz BOV
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:10:17
-0500
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Reply-To: stealth-3000gt
Is there a way to configure the Blitz like a Greddy
BOV? Mine has a tube I
bought at a autoparts place that goes from the
y-pipe to the BOV (the main
blow off pipe) and vents to the
atmosphere. The hole left from the stock
bov is then plugged with a
stopper (found at home depot ... just a big hunk
of rubber) and held on with
a hose clamp. Get a stopper that is just
bigger than the size of the
hole and mash it in there (real tech terms
here). Then run the stock
activator hose to the BOV. Until I got rid of
the stock BOV it did kinda
what your saying yours did.
Brian
snip 8<--------------------
Me
to!
I have the same problem, idle goes down under 500 rpm
when I use the clutch
(no throttle). The engine almost stalls and the
headlight dim and then it
picks rpm up to normal level again.
I'm 100% sure that the problem is related to the Blitz
BOV becasue I didn't
have this problem before I installed the
BOV.
