--
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Dec 1 00:22:56
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From: Matthews <
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To: Team 3S Tech List <
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: engine taping/ticking
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19991130185223.10590.qmail@web1605.mail.yahoo.com>
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Jeff Lucius wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
> The
ticking/tapping noise my engine developed turned
> out to be a "rod
knock" (according to both Dodge and
> Mitsubishi dealers). I hope
this is not the case for
> you. I could tell it definitely was not the
valve
> train but it did increase with engine RPM. It was not
> very
loud. Just a gentle tap, tap, tap before my bank
> account disappeared.
The car was 5 years old and had
> 54.7K miles on the odometer. I had had
the car for 2
> months and 1000 miles.
I may be wrong, but I am
under the impression that if the tapping sound
goes away when you rev the
engine a bit (increasing the oil pressure?),
then it is just the
all-too-common valve lash adjuster noise. Ignore it
until it is time
for a new timing belt, when it will be cheaper to
correct. I would
think that rod knock would only get louder under
these
circumstances.
> Jeff Lucius <
StealthMan92@yahoo.com>
> red
1992 Stealth R/T TT; 186 CI; completely rebuilt,
> race-prepped and
balanced engine; 0.050" oversized
> forged, no-silicon Venolia
pistons; head flow work
> and port matching; Magnecor 8.5 mm; RC balanced
stock
> injectors to 380 cc/min; TEC 15Gs; GT Alley
> intercoolers
and 2" piping; K&N FIPK; improved
> pre-cats; complete ATR
exhaust; EVC IV; 2 EGT,
> boost, and FP gauges; Centerforce DF
clutch;
> PowerStop rotors, Metal Matrix pads, SMC brake
> lines;
Nitto NT-555 P245/45ZR17; TMO Datalogger;
> 280 HP at wheels using G-Tech
Pro at 11.4 psi
> boost and 5200 ft elevation.
Wow... looks like
rod knock was just the excuse Jeff needed for his new
hobby!
:-)
--
Jim Matthews - Wiesbaden, Germany
mailto:matthews@wiesbaden.vistec.net
(64 Kbps ISDN)
http://rover.wiesbaden.vistec.net/~matthews***
3000GT-Stealth International (3Si) Member #0030 ***
http://rover.wiesbaden.vistec.net/~matthews/stealth.htmlJet
Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd
Adjustable Active
Suspension, Adjustable Exhaust System
K&N FIPK, A'PEXi Super AVC-R (1.0
bar @ 72% BADC)
A'PEXi Turbo Timer (30 sec), Blitz Blow-Off
Valve
Magnecore spark plug wires, Redline ShockProof fluids
Abex metallic
brake pads, custom braided brake lines
Michelin Pilot XGT-Z4 245/45ZR17, Top
Speed: 168mph
G-Tech Pro: 0-60 4.79 sec, 1/4 13.16 sec @ 113.9 mph
1 Feb
99 Dyno Session: 406 SAE HP, 354 lb-ft torque
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Dec 1 03:24:42 1999
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Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 03:24:40 -0800 (PST)
From: George Kuo <
amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Stock rims question....
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Hi Team,
I was wondering if '94+ stock rotors will fit into
1st
gen Stealth RT TT rims? I know they wont fit into 1st
gen VR4 rims..
thanx in advance for your help!!
George
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Flats/8576/Intro.html__________________________________________________
Do
You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one
place.
Yahoo! Shopping:
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http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Dec 1 06:07:15 1999
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From: Todd Leveck <
todd.leveck@hyattdiecast.com>
To:
"
'stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com'"
<
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Tour-sport mode for exhaust
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 06:02:18 -0800
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it sounds like the valve on your muffler is frozen. the
valve is located
right behind your
rear drivers side wheel. if it is
stuck then you need to remove your tire
so you can get
to it and try to
work it free using penetrating oil and pliers.
also,
check
out john adams web site for excellent instructions for doing
this. hope this
helps.
todd
93 vr4 (same
problem)
-----Original Message-----
From: Manoj Prasad [
mailto:mprasad@uswest.net]
Sent:
Tuesday, November 30, 1999 9:19 AM
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.comSubject:
Team3S: Tour-sport mode for exhaust
This is my first posting so I
hope I don't screw this up the way I send
this email. Please let me
know if I did something wrong
.
----------------
I have a 92 VR4.
When I switch from sport to tour I do not hear any
difference. I do
hear a motor in the trunk area but I do not know where
the cable goes to on
the exhaust.
When I bought the car I switch from Sport to Tour and
noticed that the
exhaust noice was reduced but then it never increased
again.
Any thoughts?
Rgds
Moe P
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFor
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http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Dec 1 07:17:28 1999
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From: "Darcy
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To: "Manoj
Prasad" <
mprasad@uswest.net>,
<
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Tour-sport mode for exhaust
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 07:15:36
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Hi Moe;
Welcome to the Team;
You will not really
notice much difference in the tour/sport modes until you
are over 2500rpm.
Then, at this level, the tour mode automatically switches
to sport
mode. From then on up the rpm band they are identical. Sport mode
is a
bit louder in the lower (under 2500) rpm band. If there is no
noticeable
difference in the low end sound, in both modes, then you may be
stuck in
sport mode. Tune your ear to the band around 2500+ and see if you
notice it
open up into a more throaty sound in tour mode when you go over
2500rpm in 2
nd gear. If this occurs, then you have no problem. If it
doesn't, it is stuck
and I'm certain we'll get a fix for you on that.
First,
check.
Best
Darc
-----Original Message-----
From:
Manoj Prasad <
mprasad@uswest.net>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
<
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date:
Tuesday, November 30, 1999 10:05 PM
Subject: Team3S: Tour-sport mode for
exhaust
>This is my first posting so I hope I don't screw this up
the way I send
>this email. Please let me know if I did something
wrong
>.
>----------------
>I have a 92 VR4. When I
switch from sport to tour I do not hear any
>difference. I do hear a
motor in the trunk area but I do not know where
>the cable goes to on the
exhaust.
>
>When I bought the car I switch from Sport to Tour and
noticed that the
>exhaust noice was reduced but then it never increased
again.
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>Rgds
>Moe
P
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Dec 1 07:33:16 1999
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From: "Darcy
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To: "Darcy
Gunnlaugson" <
wce@telus.net>,
"Manoj Prasad" <
mprasad@uswest.net>,
<
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Tour-sport mode for exhaust
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 07:31:26
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Hi Moe;
My first sentence should have read "won't notice
any difference in the
tour/sport modes above 2500 rpms". I see someone
has already advised on the
fix if you require one. However, insure there is
no difference in the modes
under 2500 before you involve yourself in
the work.
Darc
snip
>You will not really
notice much difference in the tour/sport modes until
you
>are over
2500rpm. Then, at this level, the tour mode automatically switches
>to
sport mode.
snip
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Dec 1 10:49:34 1999
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00c601bf3c2c$88297870$85f286cd@forrest.sirius.com>
From:
"Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
To:
"Team3S" <
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
Team3S: ADMIN: Please submit Questions for our FAQ pages.
Date: Wed, 1 Dec
1999 10:47:24 -0800
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To all:
We have been putting together a FAQ ("Frequently
Asked Questions")
Page and we'll be setting it up over the next several
weeks. If any
of you have ideas for Questions that should be included
(and/or the
Answers for same), please submit them to me
PRIVATELY.
Among the topics are a "newbie" directory for
acronyms or terms used
on the internet, and a second directory of acronyms
that are
3S-specific (examples: AVC-R. OBDII, etc). We already have
many of
these terms, but I'm sure we've left some out, so your lists
or
input will help keep things
accurate.
TIA,
Forrest
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
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Date: Wed, 1 Dec
1999 13:16:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt Wise <
diranged@hearme.com>
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To: Vineet Singh <
billi_gates@hotmail.com>
cc:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com,
stealth@starnet.netSubject: Team3S:
Re: Boost madness / Sport-tour mode. -- the final story, i ,
think..
In-Reply-To:
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Well Colin was helpfull enough to come over today at lunch and look
at my
car.. Neither of us have a clue whats going on.. but I have a theory
now.
After riding in the car, Colin said it felt nearly the same as his
did
before the bleeder valve mod. What I think is that when I replaced
the
spark plugs, I never installed the upper IC pipe again so the turbo
was
bleeding to the air.. itsp ossible that the turbo just blew a bearing
or
something and isnt making the powr it was originally.. Since that day
it
hasnt felt right.. Thats my theory now.. now to convince Mitsu and my
GM
warentee to cover a new turbo.
--Matt Wise
*NOC Admin*
(650)
429 3751
On Tue, 30 Nov 1999, Matt Wise wrote:
> Is it possible
to have the precats removed and testpipe type things welded
> in their
place? Will any smog station actually check for that?
>
> --Matt
Wise
> *NOC Admin*
> (650) 429 3751
>
> On Tue, 30 Nov
1999, Vineet Singh wrote:
>
> > About your boost control
problems, If your exhaust is stuck in "tour" mode,
> > I
would change that FIRST. ALL your exhaust comes out of a (approx)
2.5"
> > pipe. If it's in TOUR mode, then it goes out at the end
just before the
> > muffler through what looks like a 1.5 - 2"
pipe. That's a pretty hefty
> > restriction.
> >
> >
With that in the way, your stock pre-cats (BIG restrictions IMO, and as
>
> evidenced by my gtech-logs), and the stock cat (not as restrictive,
but
> > still in the way at the track.) You may never reach full boost,
as you have
> > to consider, if you want 14psi from your turbo, you
exhaust manifolds
> > (preturbo) will see about 25-30 psi!, all that
exhaust needs to go
> > SOMEWHERE, and get out of the way fast,
otherwise you just have too much
> > "backpressure".
>
>
> > This may not be your only problem, but it sure would help to
get rid of the
> > restrictions, starting atleast with the silly
sport/tour mode valve. (mine
> > is stuck open btw :)
> >
> > Vineet Singh
> > Manuals On CD -
http://manualcd.dsm.org> > Club DSM
A/T -
http://at.dsm.org -
"Never Lift To Shift!"
> >
> > (PS, please snip the
majority of the "reply to: posts" below your messages,
> > I
read the "digest version" of this list, so I have to scroll about a
mile
> > before seeing the next post, and my MS intellimouse wheel is
wearing out :)
> > Thanks!
> >
> > _____
>
> ORIGINAL MESSAGE
> > FYI, someone just suggested that it could be
an exhaust problem.. This
> > sounds very plausable considering that i
know my exhaust is stuck in tour
> > mode.. Coudl that be it?
>
>
> > - --Matt Wise
> > *NOC Admin*
> > (650) 429
3751
> >
> > On Mon, 29 Nov 1999, Matt Wise wrote:
>
>
> > > I decided to try swapping the hoses going to the
selanoid, and guess what,
> > > NO CHANGE! Nothign changed... still
.38-.40 boost.. So then I disconnected
> > > the bottom hose from
the selanoid (the one w/ the bleeder on it) and guess
> > > what,
instead of getting 1.5bar, I got a max of .5 bar.. definately felt
> >
> like more power, but not the 1+ bar I would expect.. so now I
challenge
> > _____
> >
>
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
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From: Matt Jannusch
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To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.comSubject:
RE: Team3S: Re: Boost madness / Sport-tour mode. -- the final sto
ry, i ,
think..
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 16:06:57 -0600
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> I never installed the upper IC pipe again so the turbo
was
> bleeding to the air.. itsp ossible that the turbo just blew a
> bearing or something and isnt making the powr it was
>
originally.. Since that day it hasnt felt right.. Thats my
> theory now..
now to convince Mitsu and my GM
> warentee to cover a new turbo.
Hmm, no wonder why the aftermarket warranties cost so much these
days..... Why should the warranty cover owner-induced damage?
You
might want to try just taking off the air inlet pipe from the turbos and make
sure both spin okay. They don't normally go bad very often, even if you
drove it a little without the upper intercooler pipe on. I'd assume that
you didn't drive it very far since the car would run extremely poorly with that
large of a leak in the intake system.
If you aren't able to make boost
above 6-8psi, then look back in the list archives for some of my posts on boost
problems. There should be one or two that detail exactly what to look for
and check if you are having trouble, in the best order to do them to save time
and money.
Basically:
Clamps and connections on all intake hosts
and vacuum lines
Line from compressor bypass valve to throttle body
connection
Intercooler connections
Y-pipe
Verify that both turbos are
able to spin without much friction
I think my original post mentioned a
lot more than that, and in greater detail.
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Dec 1 15:08:19 1999
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From: Michael Booker <
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Team3S: NA news.
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Hello fellow NA owners out there, I have some exciting news. I went
to
an exhaust fabricator today, and after looking at my car and a pic
of
the ATR downpipe (Thanks for the great pics, Roger) He said that
he
could fabricate something like a downpipe for the NA cars. I am going
to
have him do this, and he will be using my car for the R&D, and
If
anybody is interested, others can be made. I am thinking the whole
deal
will run about 250$ or so. Maybe a bit less. I know they aren't
headers,
but it IS a step in the right direction. Anybody interested, Email
me.
Matt
3/Si #311
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Dec 1 17:59:42 1999
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List" <
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Subject:
RE: Team3S: NA news.
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:59:42 -0800
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owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.comPrecedence:
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Question, what would be the point of a downpipe on a NA? Isn't
this
something that's turbo specific?
Ryan
-----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com[
mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On
Behalf Of Michael Booker
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 3:06 PM
To:
mattrt@hotmail.comCc:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.comSubject:
Team3S: NA news.
Hello fellow NA owners out there, I have some
exciting news. I went to
an exhaust fabricator today, and after looking at my
car and a pic of
the ATR downpipe (Thanks for the great pics, Roger) He said
that he
could fabricate something like a downpipe for the NA cars. I am going
to
have him do this, and he will be using my car for the R&D, and
If
anybody is interested, others can be made. I am thinking the whole
deal
will run about 250$ or so. Maybe a bit less. I know they aren't
headers,
but it IS a step in the right direction. Anybody interested, Email
me.
Matt
3/Si #311
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFor
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Dec 1 18:05:55 1999
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From:
"Mohler, Jeff" <
jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
To:
"
'ryanp@crcwnet.com'" <
ryanp@crcwnet.com>,
Stealth List
<
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: NA news.
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 18:08:52 -0800
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owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.comPrecedence:
bulk
A larger initial exhaust system *downpipe* on an NA isnt a bad
idea.
You want to be able to tune/manage backpressure for specific power
bands on the
N/A.
Its much easier to manage/control that backpressure
"range" in the exhaust
system with a muffler/resonator/convertor
once you get the initial bad designs
out of the way.
:-----Original
Message-----
:From: Ryan Peterson [
mailto:ryanp@crcwnet.com]
:Sent:
Wednesday, December 01, 1999 6:00 PM
:To: Stealth List
:Subject: RE:
Team3S: NA news.
:
:
:Question, what would be the point of a downpipe
on a NA? Isn't this
:something that's turbo
specific?
:
:Ryan
:
:-----Original Message-----
:From:
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com:[
mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On
Behalf Of
:Michael Booker
:Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 3:06
PM
:To:
mattrt@hotmail.com:Cc:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com:Subject:
Team3S: NA news.
:
:
:Hello fellow NA owners out there, I have some
exciting news. I went to
:an exhaust fabricator today, and after looking at
my car and a pic of
:the ATR downpipe (Thanks for the great pics, Roger) He
said that he
:could fabricate something like a downpipe for the NA cars. I
:am going to
:have him do this, and he will be using my car for the
R&D, and If
:anybody is interested, others can be made. I am thinking the
whole deal
:will run about 250$ or so. Maybe a bit less. I know they
:aren't headers,
:but it IS a step in the right direction. Anybody
interested, Email me.
:
:Matt
:3/Si #311
:For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
:
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm:
:For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
:
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm:
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Dec 1 18:19:35 1999
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Date:
Wed, 01 Dec 1999 21:17:35 -0500
From: Michael Booker <
mrbook@gate.net>
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To: "Mohler, Jeff" <
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CC:
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'ryanp@crcwnet.com'" <
ryanp@crcwnet.com>,
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stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
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owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.comPrecedence:
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Mohler, Jeff wrote:
>
> A larger initial exhaust system
*downpipe* on an NA isnt a bad idea.
>
> You want to be able to
tune/manage backpressure for specific power bands on the
> N/A.
>
> Its much easier to manage/control that backpressure "range"
in the exhaust
> system with a muffler/resonator/convertor once you get
the initial bad designs
> out of the way.
Exactly. I'm going for the
most free flowing system that can be fit on
the car. It's going to look like
the ATR downpipe, and flow better than
the stock system. I will concede that
you may lose some low end torque,
but the trade-off for high end power is one
that I am willing to make. I
am waiting for somebody to do some R&D on
true headers, but apparently
nobody will. This is as close (for now) to
headers as the NA owners have
for now.
Announcement! If you have an
OBD-II car, this may not work for you. He
will be fabricating this one for 1
O2 sensor, and I believe the OBD-II
cars have 2. Correct me if i'm wrong.
Matt
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htmFrom
owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Dec 1 18:21:59 1999
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From:
"Mohler, Jeff" <
jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
To:
Stealth List <
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: NA news.
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 18:24:56 -0800
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owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.comPrecedence:
bulk
But, with proper TUNING of the convertor/muffler parts, you can have
the free-er
flowing DP, but control torque loss at low RPMs as
well.
:-----Original Message-----
:From: Michael Booker [
mailto:mrbook@gate.net]
:Sent: Wednesday,
December 01, 1999 6:18 PM
:To: Mohler, Jeff
:Cc:
'ryanp@crcwnet.com'; Stealth
List
:Subject: Re: Team3S: NA news.
:
:
:Mohler, Jeff
wrote:
:>
:> A larger initial exhaust system *downpipe* on an NA
isnt a bad idea.
:>
:> You want to be able to tune/manage
backpressure for specific
:power bands on the
:> N/A.
:>
:> Its much easier to manage/control that backpressure "range"
:in the exhaust
:> system with a muffler/resonator/convertor once you
get the
:initial bad designs
:> out of the way.
:Exactly. I'm going
for the most free flowing system that can be fit on
:the car. It's going to
look like the ATR downpipe, and flow better than
:the stock system. I will
concede that you may lose some low end torque,
:but the trade-off for high
end power is one that I am willing
:to make. I
:am waiting for somebody
to do some R&D on true headers, but apparently
:nobody will. This is as
close (for now) to headers as the NA
:owners have
:for now.
:Announcement! If you have an OBD-II car, this may not work for you.
He
:will be fabricating this one for 1 O2 sensor, and I believe the
OBD-II
:cars have 2. Correct me if i'm wrong.
:
:Matt
:
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
Dec 1 18:56:59 1999
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Reply-To: "Gil
Gomes" <gil@warpedweb.com>
From: "Gil Gomes"
<gil@warpedweb.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: NA news.
Date:
Wed, 1 Dec 1999 21:52:53 -0500
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bulk
Okay... Now I'm REALLY confused. Could someone explain what a
downpipe
is on an NA? Is it the pipe coming from the exhaust manifold
and entering
the exhaust
system proper? and how would you TUNE a
converter/muffler part?
I have a '95 3KGT base and I'm aggresively
attempting to wring as much HP
as possible from it. The people in this
group are "motorheads" WAY beyond
my limited knowledge. I was
a motorhead in high school... back when arcane
entities like points,
carburetors, headers and full-race cams were all the
rage.
The times have
changed so much that this is like an entirely different
venue.
I have
a K&N FIPK and Borla installed and the resonator is firmly ensconced
in a
box in my garage... I'm aiming for a bigger throttle body next
spring.
If there's
anything else I can do in the intake/exhaust portion of
the setup, I'd like
to address
that before I start modified ECU
hunting. I'm already thinking about an
electric
supercharger like
the turbozet, and possibly a smooth hose between the MAF
and throttle body,
to decrease turbulence. I've even considered a small
hood
scoop just
above and before the FIPK...
I, like someone else replying to this
thread, assumed that a downpipe was
turbo
specific. Thanx for any
light you gents can shed....
-G
>But, with proper TUNING of
the convertor/muffler parts, you can have the
free-er
>flowing DP, but
control torque loss at low RPMs as well.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
Dec 1 19:02:29 1999
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From:
"Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
To: "'Gil
Gomes'" <gil@warpedweb.com>,
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: NA news.
Date: Wed, 1
Dec 1999 19:05:12 -0800
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Precedence: bulk
You
"tune" backpressure by using different sized/type mufflers,
convertors,
resonators..etc.
Different amounts of backpressure product
Hp in different ways. The small parts
like that, are relatively easy to
swap in and out.
:-----Original Message-----
:From: Gil Gomes
[mailto:gil@warpedweb.com]
:Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 6:53
PM
:To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
:Subject: Team3S: NA
news.
:
:
:Okay... Now I'm REALLY confused. Could someone explain
what a downpipe
:is on an NA? Is it the pipe coming from the exhaust
manifold
:and entering
:the exhaust
:system proper? and how
would you TUNE a converter/muffler part?
:
: I have a '95 3KGT base
and I'm aggresively attempting to
:wring as much HP
:as possible from
it. The people in this group are
:"motorheads" WAY
beyond
:my limited knowledge. I was a motorhead in high school...
:back when arcane
:entities like points, carburetors, headers and
full-race cams
:were all the
:rage.
:The times have changed so much
that this is like an entirely different
:venue.
:
:I have a K&N
FIPK and Borla installed and the resonator is
:firmly ensconced
:in a box
in my garage... I'm aiming for a bigger throttle
:body next
spring.
:If there's
:anything else I can do in the intake/exhaust portion
of the
:setup, I'd like
:to address
:that before I start modified ECU
hunting. I'm already
:thinking about an
:electric
:supercharger
like the turbozet, and possibly a smooth hose
:between the MAF
:and
throttle body, to decrease turbulence. I've even
:considered a
small
:hood
:scoop just above and before the FIPK...
:
:I, like
someone else replying to this thread, assumed that a
:downpipe
was
:turbo
:specific. Thanx for any light you gents can
shed....
:
:-G
:
:
:>But, with proper TUNING of the
convertor/muffler parts, you
:can have the
:free-er
:>flowing DP,
but control torque loss at low RPMs as well.
:
:
:
:For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
:http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
:
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Dec 1 20:58:21 1999
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From: "Jose Soriano"
<amahoser@linkline.com>
To:
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References:
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Subject:
Team3S: Water Injection
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:12:31 -0800
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Anyone here have experience with the Spearco Water Injection kit? I
went
ahead and purchased one from Accelerated. What is your feelings on it?
Has
it proven valuable or should I spend the $$ and get the ERL kit?I heard
that
the pump was weak... is this true? What kind of mixtures are you
guys
finding to be appropiate? I heard that a 50/50 mix of water and methanol
is
the best for performance and straight water is best for detonation
control.
If you guys tell me that it doesn't work that good, I'll buy the ERL
kit and
use the Spearco for front brake water misters!
Thanks
Jose
Soriano
Amahoser@Linkline.com
'91 Stealth RT/TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
Dec 1 21:07:10 1999
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Reply-To: <beking@home.com>
From:
"Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Water
Injection
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:08:34 -0700
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The Spearco
offering is about as economy as it gets for commercial kits.
The ERL kit
is top shelf and likely not worth the added expense unless you
get the 3D
mapped injector controller.
Another alternative is much heavier duty and
is offered by Bowling Green
Customs. It is intended for use on Grand
Nationals (you know, those heavy
American V6 turbocharged cars that do 8s in
the 1320'). It has a durable
pump, a pressure check valve and a number
of nozzle choices. It should be
just the ticket for a hopped-up
VR4.
I have personally tried none of the above and have only direct
experience
the Spearco kit. It works, but it is crude compared to the
ERL offering and
light duty compared to the BG Customs kit.
I will
likely either be putting my own computer controlled system together
or using
the one from BG Customs. The ERL kit looks great, but I don't
really
want to put out the cash for the full deal.
Barry
>
-----Original Message-----
>
> Anyone here have experience with the
Spearco Water Injection kit? I went
> ahead and purchased one from
Accelerated. What is your feelings on it? Has
> it proven valuable or
should I spend the $$ and get the ERL kit?I
> heard that
> the pump
was weak... is this true? What kind of mixtures are you guys
> finding to
be appropiate? I heard that a 50/50 mix of water and
> methanol is
>
the best for performance and straight water is best for
> detonation
control.
> If you guys tell me that it doesn't work that good, I'll buy
the
> ERL kit and
> use the Spearco for front brake water
misters!
>
> Thanks
> Jose Soriano
>
Amahoser@Linkline.com
> '91 Stealth RT/TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 23:07:44 -0600
To: "Jose Soriano"
<amahoser@linkline.com>, <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
From:
Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water
Injection
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At 08:12 PM
12/1/99 -0800, Jose Soriano wrote:
>Anyone here have experience with the
Spearco Water Injection kit?
That's next on my list, once I get the
boost controller on. My intent is to
use it to prevent detonation when
running for a long time under 1 bar of
boost. On road courses, we run full
boost for up to 45 seconds at a time,
and I'm afraid of burning something
up.
>If you guys tell me that it doesn't work that good, I'll buy the
ERL kit and
>use the Spearco for front brake water misters!
I use
the windshield washer pump for that. Works great! Dirt cheap,
too!
Rich/old poop/94 VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Reply-To: <beking@home.com>
From:
"Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
To: "Jose
Soriano" <amahoser@linkline.com>,
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Water
Injection
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:20:07 -0700
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I meant to
comment on the water/alcohol mixture.
Pure water has a much higher heat
of evaporation than alcohol or
alcohol/water mixture. From strictly a
cooling standpoint, pure water will
work best. Water doesn't combust
though, at least not at internal
combustion engine temperatures. At
higher ratios of water in the fuel/air
charge the water will begin to
displace fuel thereby offsetting some of the
benefeits. Water doesn't
mix readily with fossils fuels, and so it may also
tend to "stick
together" causing uneven combustion of the charge and
therefore less
power. Alcohol mixes readily with both water and fuel and
combusts
easily. It is added to the water to homogenize the mixture
resulting in
more even combustion without significantly sacrificing the
cooling
effect.
This is how and why it works although not all that use it
understand why.
Some think alcohol is used because it adds power to the
detonated charge.
By itself, this is not the case. Alcohol is not as
efficient a fuel as
fossil fuels, at least not in an engine designed to burn
gasoline. In the
context of water injection, alcohol *may* give back
some of the power lost
due to excess water in the charge.
The 50/50
mixture is not set in stone, and in fact is likely too much
alcohol for
moderate levels of water injection. 50/50 would be the maxium
you'd
want to use. Experimenting with 30/70 on up would be recommended.
This
is just a guess, but I doubt you'd need 50/50 until you were running
the
maximum feasible amount of water, which likely wouldn't happen until you
were
attempting 27-30+ psi.
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
>
> the pump was weak... is this true? What kind of
mixtures are you guys
> finding to be appropiate? I heard that a 50/50 mix
of water and
> methanol is
> the best for performance and straight
water is best for
> detonation control.
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 22:49:48 -0800
Subject: Team3S:
resonator...WOT?
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
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can you someone
explain:
the benefit of removing the "resonator"?
also
what does "WOT" mean?
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web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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From: "Benson
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Subject: Team3S:
resonator...WOT?
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 00:57:26 -0600
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bulk
As I just found out, I believe that WOT means Wide Open Throttle,
or
'floored' in lamens terms :).
Latuh fuh
U,
Benson
benson@2015.com
"-Do you ever have second
thoughts?
-When do I ever have first thoughts?"
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Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 00:55:43 -0600
To: gil_lee@usa.net,
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From: Merritt
<merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
resonator...WOT?
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At 10:49 PM
12/1/99 -0800, gil_lee@usa.net wrote:
>can you someone explain: the
benefit of removing the "resonator"?
>also what does
"WOT" mean?
>
I know one of them: WOT means "wide open
throttle."
Rich/old poop/94 VR4/workin' late
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Water
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> That's next
on my list, once I get the boost controller on. My intent is to
> use it
to prevent detonation when running for a long time under 1 bar of
>
boost.
Huh ? Why do you want to prevent detonation where no detonation is
? A long time under 1 bar of boost is a long time on the save side... no need to
prevent detonation !! The problem starts at one bar and is getting worser i nthe
higher boost region.
> I meant to comment on the water/alcohol
mixture.
Ok, Barry already explained this and ther is only two reasons
one needs alcohol :
1. temperatures below 0°C to prevent the water from
freezing
2. add a little more stuff to be burnt as the stock fuel system is
not able to deliver the needed amount !
There is no other need for
spraying a mixture into the intake.
On the street, the detonation control
works good and together with a properly tuned in fuel system provides the best
performance and reliability. I had less good results on the dyno due to the fact
that the water got heated up by the radiator too much (wehre my tank is
installed) and therefore was already hot when sprayed in.
According to my
20-30 datalogger runs with and without WIS, I'm able to control knock up to 1.18
bars with a bigger pump and the MAF kit installed. There are no lean readings
and only as much knock before the timing is retarded. Of course this is like
running at the edge of the knife because a little denser weather and boost peaks
up to 1.2 bars and knock is going up to dangerous level.
The positive
aspect no one was talking about is the fact that a good WI system is also able
to act as an additional intercooling device. This is the big advantage of the
expensive ERL system as I'm using two nozzles with different diameters. the
first is installed in the IC pipe at the front head (wher it sucks heat up,
very, very bad design) and therefore cools down the temperature a lot. My
temperature measures reached 72°C and more at the intake without the WI and
39°C with the system activated. This can directly be related to horsepower !
The second nozzle is in the y-pipe and controls detonation and therefore is a
little bigger.
I'm using the top end ERL system with the 3D controller,
but it is not really necessary. My current curve of the WI starts at 4500rpm at
0,6 bars of boost. I call this pre-cooling before the hi-po starts to burn the
tires and as this is the typical start-to-go-over-stock boost. But before 1 bar
I'm at full spray. Therefore the System 1s would be enough. In my point of view,
the ERLs greatest (and most expensive) part is the electro magnetic fuel pump.
The thing provides me up to 7 bars (!) of water pressure that allows you to
create a really fine mist even trough the 0.9mm nozzle. The result is that the
mixture within the chanber is getting very even.
Barry already scratched
the drawbacks of a WIS. One of the most imprtant one is that each sytem should
have a check valve so the airstream cannot suck water out of the water line.
Water drops at low rpms can be very bad. The ERL system I have has a test
circuit that knows when the pressure falls below a specific level and the mist
would be degraded. An LED then lights up and the system is not operating
anymore. It can be coupled with a relay to disable high boost. In general said,
large water drops may kill the engine ! Another bad thing is that you may
overcooling the chamber. This is no choke as the miixture ma not be burnt fully
due to the exessive water in the chamber that finally steals away power. Lastly,
one problem our cars already have is getting worser with WI ... the ignition
system. The additional water prevents self ignition, i.e. detonation by cooling
the chamber down. But then, the electrical resistance of the mixture is getting
increased and the spark cannot tr!
avel that good anymore. A higher power
ignition can hadle this but nor ours :-( Therefore, the plug gap may even be
smaller and then the mixture may not be burnt good anymore due to
this.
The last problem is the fact why I haven't gone further with dyno
tuning and different nozzles as I do have some bad hesitation. The datalogger
has recorded NOTHING abnormal, no knock, no lean situation just nothing but the
hesitation is very noticeable and caused a strange curve on the dyno (5500 -
5700). I have not yet been able to go further with my testings as a good
solution is not in sight yet. At least till today there is nothing on the
aftermarket that may solve the problem as in my opinion, the coil pack is the
problem.
Ok, I've written a lot (a little bit more than the chatters) and
some may be confused and some not, so feel free to ask questions. I'd like to
summarize :
1. WIS works and prevents detonation, cleans the carbon out and
helps in additional intercooling
2. A fuel/alcohol mixture is only needed for
winter driving or when the fuel system is at its end
3. As always, the user
must take care of the possible problems as any mod gives you a
drawback.
If you are looking for a WI system then make sure it has a high
powered pump and output that is able to deblock nozzles (selfcleaning). Also use
a good boost-switch and find a place where the tank can be mounted without the
water heated up too much (I may use Ice-water in summer, hehe). The cost of the
systems divert a lot but as usual you will get what you paid for. The bigger WIS
for the GN is as expensive as the System 1 from ERL although I recommend the 1s
with the stronger pump to be able to drive two
nozzles.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
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From
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Subject:
Re: Team3S: NA news.
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:40:20 +0100
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Calculating the
air flow on a NA will show you that any change in diameter will not help you. In
my point of view, the stock downpipe isn't good designed as the rear bank outlet
goes into the front airstream in a 90° angle. But please always understand
that there have been some ingeneers that calculated the exhaust system and you
are changing one parameter of the calculation. How do you know if you loose some
low end torque then ?
Not to sound negative but the most freeflowing
exhaust is not the best solution ! If you do this, start from scratch and let
one develop some good equal lenght headers with diameter changes to increase the
velocity and create a little backpressure. Then the downpipe must be designed
for another diameter change to create the rest of the backpressure as well as
for an equal lenght of both connections to the headers. After this you can have
a 2 1/2 inch piping that is enough for a 3litre NAback to the muffler. This part
should then be as free as possible as well as the diameter can be a s large as
you want but anything above 2 1/2 inch is overkill (and we all this term, hehe).
You can then opt for the cheaper Borla TT exhaust if it fits the rear where no
diff is then (dunno).
Regarding the intake, I have mathematically proven
that an electric charger will increase power and Bob saw some horses on the dyno
too. Now a nice smooth intake part will help to prevent any unneded turbolence
but will you see a gain of only this mod ? Probably not as the air filter is
still a bigger restriction.
Now what does a larger throttle body ? It is
able to feed more air into the engine. Bot how the heck to you want to increase
the amount of air sucked in by a naturally aspirated engine ? Yes, exactly, the
heads flow must be increased, the lift and duration of the valves changed and
the exhaust freed up.
As said, I do not see much gain from a DP on the NA
as there are no stupid bends and the airflow is much less than on the turbos.
But the music always sounds better with more players in the band and therefore
start with headers that are not yet existing. Smooting out the intake is always
a good idea and I support it although that you will only see a gain in
combination with an eRam or so. The larger TB is bogus unless the headwork has
been done. All this NA mods already cause me some headache on my 94'Z28. I have
a lot work done and only got simple 20 hp to the wheels. This included : K&N
intake, larger TB, 1.6 roller rockers, stiffer valve springs, hardened pushrods,
guideplates, titanium valve seats and locks, MAC headers, downpipe (called
y-pipe on the f-bodies), high flow cat, Borla Exhaust with y before muffler.
None of the mod gave more than 2-5 horses or even any hp but them team plays
together and you can only benefit of a larger TB if you increase the amount of
air to!
be sucked in as well as also this air must then be released
too.
It may really help if one can draw a good picture of the NA or
turbos (mine is a little but crappy) and we can identify the point where what
can be done. I'm relatively good on calculations and know where to test what so
we may find some solutions in the future.
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
----- Original Message -----
From: Mohler, Jeff
<jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
To: <ryanp@crcwnet.com>; Stealth List
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 3:08
AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: NA news.
> A larger initial exhaust
system *downpipe* on an NA isnt a bad idea.
>
> You want to be able
to tune/manage backpressure for specific power bands on the
>
N/A.
>
> Its much easier to manage/control that backpressure
"range" in the exhaust
> system with a
muffler/resonator/convertor once you get the initial bad designs
> out of
the way.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
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Subject: Re: Team3S:
Water Injection
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 12:08:07 +0100
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bulk
Do you think the ignition of the Electomotive TecII will be
"strong" enough?
As far as I know Electromotives ignition is the
best you can get. (and not
very expensive either)
/Mikael Akesson
http://www.3000gt.nu
----- Original Message -----
From: R.G.
<robby@freesurf.ch>
<BIG SNIP>
Lastly, one problem our cars
already have is getting worser with WI ... the
ignition system. The
additional water prevents self ignition, i.e.
detonation by cooling the
chamber down. But then, the electrical resistance
of the mixture is getting
increased and the spark cannot travel that good
anymore. A higher power
ignition can hadle this but nor ours :-( Therefore,
the plug gap may even be
smaller and then the mixture may not be burnt good
anymore due to
this.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Dec 2 03:16:42 1999
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From: "Jose Soriano"
<amahoser@linkline.com>
To:
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Water
Injection
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 02:12:21 -0800
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> I will likely either be putting my own computer controlled
system together
> or using the one from BG Customs. The ERL kit
looks great, but I don't
> really want to put out the cash for the full
deal.
>
>
I read somewhere of someone using a "electric
trailer brake" backwards so
that the more acceleration you have, the
more voltage it feeds to the water
pump... Sound good? I might give it a try.
Maybe I'll just purchase a
beefier water pump and use the trailer brake
method... with the Spearco
system... Might be a good alternative to the
computer......
Jose Soriano
Amahoser@Linkline.com
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
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From:
"Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Water Injection
Date:
Thu, 2 Dec 1999 04:50:49 -0800
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:Huh ? Why do
you want to prevent detonation where no
:detonation is ? A long time under 1
bar of boost is a long
:time on the save side... no need to prevent
detonation !! The
:problem starts at one bar and is getting worser i nthe
higher
:boost region.
---
You mean...<choke>..the DARK
SIDE!?
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Dec 2 05:19:10 1999
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To: Jose Soriano
<amahoser@linkline.com>,
Team3S List <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water
Injection
References: <004e01bf3c83$48addf40$88c10118@home.com>
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> excerpt
from "AutoSpeed" article about water injection......
>
>
Another entirely different way of varying the water injection rate is to
>
drive the pump with a trailer electric brake controller. These devices
are
> available from caravan and similar suppliers and are designed to
energise
> the electro-magnets that are located in the brake assemblies of
some
> caravans and trailers. One class of controllers does this by
measuring the
> braking force that the car is undergoing and increasing
its output voltage
> proportionally. I envisage the controller reversed in
orientation so that it
> measures acceleration. If it was then connected
to the water injection pump,
> the harder the car accelerated, the higher
would be the pump speed and so
> the greater would be the addition of
water into the intake air!
This is high danger ! The guy who wrote the
article may have never ever driven a
turbo car. How heavy is your
accelleration in 4th at 4500, WOT ?? Not really
neck-slapping I'd say. But
look at your boost ... it pegs to the top !
And, you know, our cars are
no trailers, LOL. Our brakes are activated by fluid
pressure (i.e. hydraulic)
and not with any low power electro magnet. The guy was
talking about
light-weight funny cars with solenoid brakes. Indicating voltage
to the
rotating assembly causes an increase in current flow at the static
parts.
This works simply like an e-motor with stator(s) and a rotor. But hey,
this is
for cars without hydraulic brakes and this is way, way out of
discussion for our
cars. Also note that the guy may wrote in general about
water injection as
cooling the intake always helps any car. Forget this idea
and go the right way.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Subject: Re: Team3S:
Water Injection
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 15:02:36 +0100
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Hi Roger,
It's not cheap but if you compare to that you must
have, VPC, GCC (or split
second) and TMO datalogger and something like a MSD
setup for the ignition,
to get the same funtionality (and you still don't)
then it's a bargain!
I paid 1604$ (incl 25% tax!) for the Electromotive
TecII, this includes all
sensors (map, clt, tp etc), trigger wheel, magnetic
pickup and coils. You
have to add injector connectors and ignition cables.
You also have to
manufacture a custom bracket for the magnetic pickup. This
includes full
fuel and ignition management and also the PC based engine
management
software with log function. (also the possiblity to trigger water
injection
from the knock sensor, that's cool)
You know my route
now...
/Mikael Akesson http://www.3000gt.nu
----- Original Message
-----
From: R.G. <robby@freesurf.ch>
To: Mikael Åkesson
<vr4@bahnhof.se>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 12:12 PM
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Water Injection
> Do you think the ignition of the
Electomotive TecII will be "strong"
enough?
To be tested ! I
think yeas because the stock coils are eliminated.
> As far as I know
Electromotives ignition is the best you can get. (and not
> very expensive
either)
Cheap ???? What are your pricing for a simple ignition system ??
The last I
saw was $1000.
Lemme know :)
Roger
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Dec 2 07:32:11 1999
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Date:
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Subject: Team3S: Update - Nitrous being
added
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OK. I never
wanted to use Nitrous. Here is the logic that changed my mind.
We estimate
each 1/2 of the engine to be like running a 1.6L x2=3.2L.
Using a large turbo
capable of 600HP how long will it take a 1.6L 3 cyl eng
to spool it up?
Answer - Forever. To compensate, we can rev to 6500 & drop
the clutch.
I'd be lucky If I last 5 runs without breaking something
expensive.
If
we use Nitrous (just a small shot) we can slip launch easy & get to
the
rpm band fast. Then kill the Nitrous & let the turbos take
over.
For the sake of my drive train, Nitrous is the kinder solution.
Besides, my
engine is race built to handle it. Will my 2-Bolt main take all
this? We
think YES.
But, we will be installing 6 EGT gauges to keep an
eye on every cylinder.
Who will have time to even look at them is beyond me.
A video camera for
review later will record the specifics :)
Arty 91
VR-4-X X = Expermintal
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From
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Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 09:50:02 -0600
To: "Mohler, Jeff"
<jeff.mohler@netapp.com>, stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
From: Merritt
<merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Water
Injection
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>:Huh ? Why
do you want to prevent detonation where no
>:detonation is ? A long time
under 1 bar of boost is a long
>:time on the save side... no need to
prevent detonation !! The
>:problem starts at one bar and is getting
worser i nthe higher
>:boost region.
>---
>You
mean...<choke>..the DARK SIDE!?
An instructor at Road America told
me he's seen many turbo cars with boost
controllers go home on trailers. It
seems that drag racers can get away
with running high boost for 12 seconds or
so, but running continuous high
boost for 20-30 minutes at a time kills
motors. I know they run flat out on
the autobahns for long periods of time
without blowing motors, but I figger
it's better to be safe than sorry, and
water injection seems like a pretty
cheap engine insurance policy. Besides,
maybe I'll get brave, put in some
103 octane, and crank the boost to 18
psi.
Rich/old poop/94 VR4
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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From: "Darcy
Gunnlaugson" <wce@telus.net>
To:
"=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mikael_=C5kesson?="
<vr4@bahnhof.se>,
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>, "R.G."
<robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water Injection
Date: Thu,
2 Dec 1999 08:01:20 -0800
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bulk
Hey Mikael;
Give us the low down on this Electromotive
Tec11?? I haven't heard of it,
and for the price you quote it has to
has good features...you 'generally'
get what you pay for. Can you
elaborate a bit more on it??
BEst
Darc
-----Original
Message-----
From: Mikael Åkesson <vr4@bahnhof.se>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>;
R.G.
<robby@freesurf.ch>
Date: Thursday, December 02, 1999 6:02
AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water Injection
>Hi
Roger,
>
>It's not cheap but if you compare to that you must have,
VPC, GCC (or split
>second) and TMO datalogger and something like a MSD
setup for the ignition,
>to get the same funtionality (and you still
don't) then it's a bargain!
>
>I paid 1604$ (incl 25% tax!) for the
Electromotive TecII, this includes all
>sensors (map, clt, tp etc),
trigger wheel, magnetic pickup and coils. You
>have to add injector
connectors and ignition cables. You also have to
>manufacture a custom
bracket for the magnetic pickup. This includes full
>fuel and ignition
management and also the PC based engine management
>software with log
function. (also the possiblity to trigger water injection
>from the knock
sensor, that's cool)
>
>You know my route
now...
>
>/Mikael Akesson http://www.3000gt.nu
>
>-----
Original Message -----
>From: R.G. <robby@freesurf.ch>
>To:
Mikael Åkesson <vr4@bahnhof.se>
>Sent: Thursday, December 02,
1999 12:12 PM
>Subject: Re: Team3S: Water
Injection
>
>
>> Do you think the ignition of the
Electomotive TecII will be "strong"
>enough?
>
>To
be tested ! I think yeas because the stock coils are
eliminated.
>
>> As far as I know Electromotives ignition is the
best you can get. (and
not
>> very expensive
either)
>
>Cheap ???? What are your pricing for a simple ignition
system ?? The last I
>saw was $1000.
>
>Lemme know
:)
>Roger
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Dec 2 08:07:51 1999
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Date:
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From: Jeff Crabtree
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Subject: Team3S: Engine
Preparations
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Ok guys and
gals,
It's gotten serious. I'm tired of not
driving my car. I AM going
to start pulling the engine out to rebuild
and would like some
recomendations about what I need to do it. If
anybody has any advice on
special tools, what to do first, what not to do
first, who to call(and
who NOT to call), etc., I'm all ears. I'm on a
somewhat tight budget,
so the sky is not the limit. I DO, however, want
to do it the right
way.
I plan on investing in a
digital camera so that I can take pictures
along the way. I figure if I
get in a bind, I can always refer back to
the pics to see how things were
before I happened to them.
I've got two weeks of
vacation starting at the end of June. I'm
setting that as my deadline
to have this project finished. I'm driving
to Florida and I want to
take the Stealth, not the Jeep! I'll be
counting on you guys
alot.
Please help.
--
-Jeff Crabtree
'91
Stealth R/T TT(3/SI
#499)
'93 Wrangler
4.0L
Sport
St. Louis, MO
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
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From: "R.G."
<robby@freesurf.ch>
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References:
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Update - Nitrous
being added
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 17:44:30 +0100
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Arty, one
calculation bogus :
> Using a large turbo capable of 600HP how long
will it take a 1.6L 3 cyl eng
> to spool it up? Answer -
Forever.
You only need a turbo that produces 300hp (a little more of
course), because you have two of them ! Only half of the air is need per turbo.
Calculate this and you'll see that the turbo is only a 15g that is capable of
the desired air.
> If we use Nitrous (just a small shot) we can slip
launch easy & get to
> the rpm band fast. Then kill the Nitrous
& let the turbos take over.
> For the sake of my drive train, Nitrous
is the kinder solution.
And the bang where the Nitrous kicks in ? This is
a extreme kick-in (at least at the Camaro I've driven) and is as harmful as
dumping the clutch.
> Besides, my engine is race built to handle it.
Will my 2-Bolt main take all this? We
> think YES.
Depending on
the pressure you run on I belive it can withstand the power. BUT, you know
torque is the important key factor for this. The more I'd ask is if the head
gaskets are withstanding this. But I think a 50hp shot should be ok.
>
But, we will be installing 6 EGT gauges to keep an eye on every
cylinder.
> Who will have time to even look at them is beyond me. A video
camera for
> review later will record the specifics :)
Arty, think
again about this (or was this only for fun ??) Each EGT probe has a diameter and
even placing one before the turbo seems to steel away from the exhaust diameter.
Now one isn't really a problem there but it will become with one in each header
pipe. here the simple velocitiy enhancement around the probe doesn't work well
anymore. And finaly, you simply do not have the place for them. I think it would
make more sense to buy a datalogger as this is cheaper and you will save
video-tapes for coyote-cartoons :)
> Arty 91 VR-4-X X =
Expermintal
Better : content of the X-files (Arghhhhh, Scully is driving
my car....)
Roger
93'300000000 GT TTTTTTT (mod : keyboard
error)
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
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From: "R.G."
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References:
<3.0.5.32.19991202095002.0084de40@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Water Injection
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 18:05:48 +0100
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> An
instructor at Road America told me he's seen many turbo cars with boost
>
controllers go home on trailers.
<snip>
Yes, sure, WI helps as a
bigger intercooler does , larger turbos do and more fuel does.
You wrote
:
> My intent is to use it to prevent detonation when running for a long
time
> under 1 bar of boost.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hääääää ??? WI is used
to prevent detonation above the danger line, above 1 bar of boost. I think you
meant runnign a long time with boost of 1 bars. On the dyno this is what we've
done and therefore our measures are always a worst case. Best case is simply
said, walking on the dark side with sunglasses.
> it's better to be
safe than sorry, and water injection seems like a pretty
> cheap engine
insurance policy. Besides, maybe I'll get brave, put in some
> 103 octane,
and crank the boost to 18 psi.
Ah, ok, but why do you still run a bleeder
or plopp-valve and no datalogger to see dangerous signs ? These are the first
insurance policies you should take care of. Water injection comes pretty much at
the end of the line and without a logger and EGT it's hard to tune it in
correctly !
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 11:19:04
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Subject: Team3S: Off Topic -- Signing Off List
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Hey
folks:
Strictly in the FWIW category, I'll be asking Rich to sign me off
the
list this afternoon. Should be back up and running Monday
morning. If
anyone's looking for me, please e-mail me privately,
and I'll get back
with you whence I return.
And now back to our
regularly scheduled program, already in progress...
Best
regards,
SJ
___________________________________________________________________
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the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free
Internet access for a month!
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To: "R.G."
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From:
Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water
Injection
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>
>>
it's better to be safe than sorry, and water injection seems like a
pretty
>> cheap engine insurance policy. Besides, maybe I'll get brave,
put in some
>> 103 octane, and crank the boost to 18
psi.
>
>Ah, ok, but why do you still run a bleeder or plopp-valve
and no
datalogger to see dangerous signs ? These are the first insurance
policies
you should take care of. Water injection comes pretty much at the
end of
the line and without a logger and EGT it's hard to tune it in
correctly !
I just want to run 15 psi on a road course without burning
out the rings,
so I figgered that water injection would give me a safety
margin. I'm not
trying to tune anything for maximum output. I'll do all that
data logger
and electronic boost control stuff later. Anything wrong with
this approach?
Rich
>
>Roger
>93'3000GT
TT
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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To: Team3S
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Update - Nitrous
being added
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Personally I
haven't seen anything wrong with a 50-100hp shot of Nitrous. Jack T ran a 50hp
shot when he did his 10 second run (that still stands as #1 in the Fastest list
if I'm not mistaken) ran back in June of 97. The stats show an increase approx
.5 seconds quicker than his 11.303 (his fastest w/o Nitrous) and .15 of it was
in the first 60 feet. As long as the Nitrous shot isn't excessive (most Camaros
run higher than100hp shots, I think 50hp is enough for us) it won't hurt
anything. But that's my humble
non-motorhead only speaking from past
experiences (of others) opinion. So i'm not exactly the best guy to listen to.
But are large turbos fully spun when most of you quicker guys have the clutch
already out (even when slipped and not dumped)? Personally I think a lil nitrous
between 10 and 35mph is a good thing (maybe only for whiplash tho.
heheh)..
--Steve "Loco3KGT" Gula
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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Dec 2 09:40:27 1999
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From: Ken Middaugh
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Water
Injection
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>
According to my 20-30 datalogger runs with and without WIS, I'm able to
>
control knock up to 1.18 bars with a bigger pump and the MAF kit installed.
> There are no lean readings and only as much knock before the timing is
> retarded. Of course this is like running at the edge of the knife
because
> a little denser weather and boost peaks up to 1.2 bars and
knock is going
> up to dangerous level.
What is up with
this? 1.18 is not even 17 psi! I thought the benefits of
water
injection were equivalent to fuel octane of over 140 or so. I
hoped/expected
with water injection that we could avoid knock up to 23-25
psi. Why is knock
still occuring at such a low psi with WI? Is
there still more WI tuning to
perform?
-----
I'm suprised you
stopped me officer, Dunkin Donuts has a 3 for 1 special!
Ken Middaugh
(858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Update - Nitrous being
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Roger, check
again...My CFM's have been dramatically increased.
We are using 2 (two) 600Hp
turbos. 2 (two) Throttle Bodies
2 front mounted intercoolers - 2 separate
exhausts - 2 of everything :)
Maybe this car needs a copilot
too?
Arty
In a message dated 12/2/99 9:13:35 AM Pacific Standard Time,
robby@freesurf.ch writes:
<< ubj: Re: Team3S: Update -
Nitrous being added
Date: 12/2/99 9:13:35 AM Pacific Standard
Time
From: robby@freesurf.ch (R.G.)
Sender:
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To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Arty, one calculation bogus :
>
Using a large turbo capable of 600HP how long will it take a 1.6L 3 cyl
eng
> to spool it up? Answer - Forever.
You only need a turbo that
produces 300hp (a little more of course), because
you have two of them !
Only half of the air is need per turbo. Calculate this
and you'll see that
the turbo is only a 15g that is capable of the desired
air.
>>
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http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Dec 2 10:28:14 1999
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From: "Landis,
Michael" <MLandis@casham.com>
To: wjcrabtree@sprintmail.com
Cc:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Engine Preparations (long
post)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 12:28:02 -0600
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Hi Jeff - I
overhauled my NA engine this summer due to a seized water pump
(shredded
timing belt, bent valves, long, sad tale...). While it wasn't
easy, it
wasn't as daunting as I first thought it would be. My neighbor,
Jim, is
a motorhead, and offered to help me tackle the job. We did it
over
three week-ends with a few week-nights in between, for a little under
$1500
- most of that for the overhaul kit (pistons, rings, gaskets) and
machine
work. The rest was for miscellaneous parts and
supplies.
Your TT will obviously have some additional plumbing to deal
with, and I
can't offer any insight there. However, if I had mine to do
over again, I'd
do a better job of labeling and bagging the various nuts and
bolts. We
mistakenly used course-threaded bolts for the
block-to-transaxle attachment
and stripped the holes. Ooops. Now
we know better, but the damage is done.
Most of the time you can figure out
what goes where - kind of like a jigsaw
puzzle - but there can be surprises
using this method. Next time I'll take
more care keeping track of what
goes where. I video-taped the engine
compartment - especially wiring
and vacuum line routing. This came in
handy, but some additional notes
or photos might have helped some more.
Once we got started, we were too busy
to stop and take more notes, etc. And
of course, the quicker you can
start and finish the job, the better. We
stretched it out over almost
four weeks, and spent some time at the end
asking each other "do you
remember where this goes?"
A couple of folks advised me to NOT have
the crank turned. Seems Mitsu uses
a nitride coating on the journals
that goes away if you turn it. Some folks
have spun bearings within a
few hundred miles after an overhaul due to this.
Of course the official Mitsu
dealership position is to replace the crank,
not have it turned. But
this is also the official Chevy, Ford, Chrysler,
Dodge,
fill-in-the-blank-manufacturer, dealership position when it comes
to
crankshaft problems - replace it, don't fix it.
Nitriding
puts a very thin (few thousandths), very hard layer on the
journals.
However, it is not entirely uniform. Thus the use
of
"hand-select" journal bearings on our cars. (While nitriding is
not common
among domestic manufacturers, neither is it
"rare". I found a local
heat-treating shop that does it, and
the guy was kind enough to educate me a
little. Educate yourself a
little in this area, too. Search the web -
there's info out
there...) Take great care noting which bearings came from
which
journals in case you don't need to turn your crank and want to reuse
the
bearings. My car had 112K miles on it and was showing a
little
bearing/journal wear. Plus it looked like the bearings may have
gotten
hammered some when the pistons and valves dinged each other.
After
consulting with my machinist (who checked his sources), and discussing
it
with Jim, we elected to grind the journals and put in standard
oversized
bearings anyway. I did NOT have the crank nitrided afterwards
(it's a few
hundred bucks). I've got about 2,500 miles on the freshened
up engine so
far, with no problems, and the car runs like a champ. But
remember, my
car's a NA, not turbo. Some of the other guys (and gals)
on the list may
have additional insight in this area. Find a good
machine shop, and ask 'em
if they've done any of these engines before.
(My machinist had done several
of the mini-van V-6's, which use the same
block, but that's about where the
similarities end. However, he had
about 40 years experience (yeah - he's
OLD), and Jim had used him for years
for building race motors, etc.) Peg
'em about their knowledge of the
crankshaft treatment, etc. Ask 'em what
your options are if you spin a
bearing a month down the road (warrantee).
As far as tools and stuff is
concerned, I wouldn't even get started without
the overhaul manual.
Note that this is a different manual than the standard
shop manual.
I've got the standard shop manual and electrical manual, and
ordered the CD
ROM manual from Vineet Singh (see
http://manualcd.dsm.org
<http://manualcd.dsm.org> ) which
included the overhaul manual on it. It
was a lifesaver.
Otherwise, I was able to get by without any of the special
tools (which is
good, since my local dealer wouldn't/couldn't sell them to
me
anyway...).
I'll bare my soul a little, and highlight the stupid
shade-tree mechanic
mistakes we made along the way, in the hope that it may
save you a couple of
hundred bucks. Overall, most of the mistakes we
made were in getting the
engine out and back in...
First off, we
cracked the flange on the main crankshaft pulley (harmonic
dampener on
domestic V-8s...) when we pulled the engine out of the bay. The
book
says to remove the transaxle. We just tried to shift it back out of
the
way towards the front passenger tire. Nice try, but not enough
room.
I'm sure we hit the pulley against the fender-well or strut tower
or
something else when trying to angle the engine enough to get it off of
the
transaxle and out of the engine bay. Then we had to go ahead and
remove the
axles in order to get the transaxle out of the way enough for
reassembly.
All in all, our "shortcut" cost us more time jacking
with it. Just remove
the transaxle (and axles?) and anything else the
books says, and get them
out of your way. It'll save you time and
money. The pulley costs around
$220 new from the dealer. I got
one from M&R Recycling for $125.
Unfortunately, they sent me one off of
an Eclipse the first time around, so
I had to wait another three or four days
for the right part to show up.
Bummer.
If that wasn't enough, I
cracked the flange on the crankshaft sprocket
trying to get it off - about a
$50 dollar mistake. To avoid this, remove
all of the bolts holding the
front pump (oil pump) in place, then gently
(gently) pry the front pump off
of the front face of the block. This should
slide the sprocket off the
crank snout. I tried putting a screwdriver blade
between the sprocket
and front pump and prying it off directly, and it
chipped the flange.
Bad move. Again, others on the list may have other
tricks.
And
lastly, we broke the tab off of the power steering pump sensor -
again,
probably hit it against something when removing the engine. This
part was
only about $15, but it took me days to get a Dodge dealer to
identify it
("What the hell you talking about - a power steering pump
sensor? What's it
for? I don't think I got none of them...") and
special order it. Another
four days...
I took a lot of photos
but haven't had time to get them up on my web-site
yet. I keep saying
I'm going to do that soon, but I'm trying to wrap up a
home remodeling
project before year-end, so I'm pretty busy. If I get a
chance, I'll do
that in the next couple of weeks and post a note to the
list.
Otherwise, I wish you luck. If you can, find a buddy who knows
more
than you do. But then again, about halfway through my overhaul,
Jim said
"You know, after I do one more of these, that'll be two that
I've done..."
Hmmmmm. "Thanks for the confidence builder,
Jim."
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff
Crabtree [SMTP:wjcrabtree@sprintmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999
10:11 AM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: Engine
Preparations
Ok guys and gals,
It's gotten
serious. I'm tired of not driving my car. I AM
going
to start
pulling the engine out to rebuild and would like some
recomendations about
what I need to do it. If anybody has any
advice on
special tools,
what to do first, what not to do first, who to
call(and
who NOT to call),
etc., I'm all ears. I'm on a somewhat tight
budget,
so the sky is
not the limit. I DO, however, want to do it the
right
way.
I plan on investing in a digital camera
so that I can take
pictures
along the way. I figure if I get in a
bind, I can always refer back
to
the pics to see how things were before I
happened to them.
I've got two weeks of vacation
starting at the end of June. I'm
setting that as my deadline to have
this project finished. I'm
driving
to Florida and I want to take the
Stealth, not the Jeep! I'll be
counting on you guys alot.
Please
help.
--
-Jeff Crabtree
'91 Stealth R/T TT(3/SI
#499)
'93 Wrangler
4.0L
Sport
St. Louis, MO
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Dec 2 11:23:34 1999
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From: "R.G."
<robby@freesurf.ch>
To:
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References:
<0.4c586e6e.25780995@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Update - Nitrous
being added
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 20:22:38 +0100
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> Roger, check again...My CFM's have been dramatically
increased.
> We are using 2 (two) 600Hp turbos. 2 (two) Throttle
Bodies
> 2 front mounted intercoolers - 2 separate exhausts - 2 of
everything :)
> Maybe this car needs a copilot too?
Gulp, maybe we
need a second list for monsters, Godzillas and other
earth-killing stuff,
hahaha. What about, ahem .. the tranny and drivetrain ?
Do you think about
converting to rear-wheel drive ?
Ok, two TB, etc. but is the intake
plenum able to handle this or is it
totally redesigned too
?
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Dec 2 11:34:24 1999
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From: "R.G."
<robby@freesurf.ch>
To: <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>,
"Merritt" <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
References:
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<3.0.5.32.19991202111228.00853a50@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Water Injection
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 20:32:24 +0100
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> I just want to run 15 psi on a road course without burning out
the rings,
> so I figgered that water injection would give me a safety
margin. I'm not
> trying to tune anything for maximum output. I'll do all
that data logger
> and electronic boost control stuff later. Anything
wrong with this
approach?
Then you can simply use the cheapest system
around where you don't have to
tune it in in any way. Works ok as
intercooling add-on (this is what you
want for the circle
tracks)
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Dec 2 11:36:08 1999
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From: "R.G."
<robby@freesurf.ch>
To: "Team3S"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
References:
<004f01bf3c84$e5a35720$88c10118@home.com>
<004801bf3cb1$f2b688b0$2b8a83d8@peoplesoft.com>
<3846AF03.51D445BC@gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water
Injection
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 20:35:14 +0100
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bulk
> What is up with this? 1.18 is not even 17 psi! I
thought the benefits of
water
> injection were equivalent to fuel
octane of over 140 or so. I
hoped/expected
> with water injection
that we could avoid knock up to 23-25 psi. Why is
knock
> still
occuring at such a low psi with WI? Is there still more WI
tuning
to
> perform?
There is still more tuning necessary as the
ignition is the bottleneck at
the moment. But I may ask you where to get the
needed fuel from to run more
than 1.2 bars ?? No chance with the stock
injectors ! You can cut fuel
pressure drops quickly and the injectors are
still maxxed out !
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Dec 2 12:06:31 1999
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Update - Nitrous being
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Precedence: bulk
Roger, its all
totally custom as far as the plumbing & manifold etc.
No way this thing
works with anything even close to stock. I can't even close
the stock hood.
On the rear wheel drive, it would be faster but I'd be
disqualified from
running the Quick 8 if I go rear wheel drive.
Then I may as well go tube
frame too.
If I need any more HP I'll get a sticker. :)
Guys, this is
exciting. I can't wait to run it. Everybody want to know what
it
costs.
Me too. I've been afraid to figure it out. I really don't know
and don't
want to know. One day I'll do it. Not now.
Arty
In a message dated
12/2/99 11:25:32 AM Pacific Standard Time,
robby@freesurf.ch
writes:
<< Roger, check again...My CFM's have been
dramatically increased.
> We are using 2 (two) 600Hp turbos. 2 (two)
Throttle Bodies
> 2 front mounted intercoolers - 2 separate exhausts - 2
of everything :)
> Maybe this car needs a copilot too?
Gulp, maybe
we need a second list for monsters, Godzillas and other
earth-killing stuff,
hahaha. What about, ahem .. the tranny and drivetrain ?
Do you think about
converting to rear-wheel drive ?
Ok, two TB, etc. but is the intake
plenum able to handle this or is it
totally redesigned too
?
Roger
93'3000GT TT
>>
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Dec 2 12:44:02 1999
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From: Ken Middaugh
<Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Organization: General Atomics - Fusion
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Water
Injection
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> >
What is up with this? 1.18 is not even 17 psi! I thought the
benefits of
> water
> > injection were equivalent to fuel octane
of over 140 or so. I
> hoped/expected
> > with water
injection that we could avoid knock up to 23-25 psi. Why is
>
knock
> > still occuring at such a low psi with WI? Is there
still more WI tuning
> to
> > perform?
>
> There is
still more tuning necessary as the ignition is the bottleneck at
> the
moment. But I may ask you where to get the needed fuel from to run more
>
than 1.2 bars ?? No chance with the stock injectors ! You can cut fuel
>
pressure drops quickly and the injectors are still maxxed out !
If I have
an upgraded fuel system with 720 cc injectors and dump fuel in, will I
still
see knock at 17 psi with WI? 18 psi?
Is an ignition upgrade going
to be the cure-all for the early knock problem?
My current mid-life
crisis dream is not as ambitious as Arty's or numerous
others. I'd just
like to upgrade my '91 VR4 to a '95 with ECS and OBDII, get an
OBDII
datalogger for tuning, install 15G's, Split-Second system, 720cc
injectors,
etc (BC, fuel pump, pistons & rings) (not necessarily in that
order
;)). I was hoping to install an ERL WI and run 23 psi with no
knock! Is my
dream unrealistic?
Your data is showing knock
starting at 17 psi with a non-lean condition. This
is very
disappointing since WI is supposed to be equivalent to 140+
octane
fuel. What should max boost be with 140 octane
fuel?
Others have reported running 20+ psi. Folks are upgrading to
turbos greater
than 15G's. Pete Palmara is installing the monster
Greddy turbos, others have
installed GT-Pro's hybrids, etc.
What's going on here? Are folks just
installing these monster turbos,
running high boost, and ignoring the
fact/probability that they are
detonating? Do they just not care that they
knock since they only boost
for 1320 feet? Is there another way to eliminate
knock? I'm
depressed, I'm going to lunch now :).
--
I'm surprised you stopped me
officer, Dunkin Donuts has a 3 for 1 special!
Ken Middaugh (858)
455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
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From
owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Dec 2 13:41:51 1999
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From: "Landis,
Michael" <MLandis@casham.com>
To: Aso8@aol.com
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Subject: RE: Team3S: Update - Nitrous being
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So did I
miss something here? Where are the pictures, man?!?!?! Show me
da
beast!
-----Original Message-----
From: Aso8@aol.com
[SMTP:Aso8@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 2:06 PM
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Cc: Aso8@aol.com
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Update - Nitrous being added
Roger, its all totally custom as far as the
plumbing & manifold etc.
No way this thing works with anything even close
to stock. I can't
even close
the stock hood. On the rear wheel drive, it
would be faster but I'd
be
disqualified from running the Quick 8 if I go
rear wheel drive.
Then I may as well go tube frame too.
If I need any
more HP I'll get a sticker. :)
Guys, this is exciting. I can't wait to run
it. Everybody want to
know what
it
costs. Me too. I've been afraid to
figure it out. I really don't
know
and don't want to know. One day I'll
do it. Not now.
Arty
In a message dated 12/2/99 11:25:32 AM
Pacific Standard Time,
robby@freesurf.ch writes:
<<
Roger, check again...My CFM's have been dramatically increased.
> We are
using 2 (two) 600Hp turbos. 2 (two) Throttle Bodies
> 2 front mounted
intercoolers - 2 separate exhausts - 2 of
everything :)
> Maybe this
car needs a copilot too?
Gulp, maybe we need a second list for monsters,
Godzillas and other
earth-killing stuff, hahaha. What about, ahem .. the
tranny and
drivetrain ?
Do you think about converting to rear-wheel drive
?
Ok, two TB, etc. but is the intake plenum able to handle this or
is
it
totally redesigned too ?
Roger
93'3000GT TT
>>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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From: "Zentelis none"
<zentelis@hotmail.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S: Finally
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 13:59:49 PST
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Finally! To make
a long story short, I've finally saved enough money to buy
a Stealth.. (yep,
I like to buy cars with cash). I asked a long time ago
(though i doubt
anyone remembers), but what are some good places on the net
to buy used
cars? Autotrader's the only decent one i know of since they took
over
traderonline..any others? And, What I'm looking to buy is a '94
TT...what
are some good places to look for upgrades? Eventually, I'm
planning on doing
the whole 9 yards in upgrades. Any help would be great.
Thanks!
______________________________________________________
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Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From
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From: "R.G."
<robby@freesurf.ch>
To: "Team3S"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
References:
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Water
Injection
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 23:22:44 +0100
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> If I have an upgraded fuel system with 720 cc injectors and
dump fuel in,
will I
> still see knock at 17 psi with WI? 18
psi?
The idea is the combination of fuel and water by using simple pump
gas. I'm
positive that high psi is possible but the turbos are way out of
ther
efficiency island :(
> Is an ignition upgrade going to be the
cure-all for the early knock
problem?
This is the theory as gapping
down the plugs to 0.030 is getting rid of the
problem but calls others.
Therefore an increased energy level at the plugs
is desired ! I'm working on
a solution with GN coil packs but I can't say
anything yet. Also a
TechnoMotive ignition would help but this is probably
an expensive
solution.
> My current mid-life crisis dream is not as ambitious as
Arty's or numerous
> others. I'd just like to upgrade my '91 VR4 to
a '95 with ECS and OBDII,
get an
> OBDII datalogger for tuning, install
15G's, Split-Second system, 720cc
> injectors, etc (BC, fuel pump, pistons
& rings) (not necessarily in that
order
> ;)).
But this IS
mid-life crisis, LOL. Why the heck do you want to upgrade your
91 with the
OBDII stuff ?? Makes no sense to me at all ??? The rest is cool
and the 15g
are appropriate for the targeted power. This is pretty close to
my setup
then, although I have headers and the big GT Pro turbos ready to
go
in.
> I was hoping to install an ERL WI and run 23 psi
with no knock! Is my
> dream unrealistic?
Well, with dumping
fuel in I'm pretty sure you can run such high boost. The
WI will make this
even better and allows you to run such a high boost with
pump
gas.
> Your data is showing knock starting at 17 psi with a non-lean
condition.
This
> is very disappointing since WI is supposed to be
equivalent to 140+ octane
> fuel. What should max boost be with 140
octane fuel?
How do we know if the stock pistons/rings withstand 20 psi ?
Also if one has
a noisy valvetrain, how will the knock sensor pick up this
stuff (this is
why it is installed on a bracket between the banks). Over the
years, this
bracket got rusty as well as the KS is probably to hard in its
seat. I speak
of "false knock" and noone can tell us how this can
be eliminated. I'll
definitely replace the bracket when installing the new
injectors.
> Others have reported running 20+ psi. Folks are
upgrading to turbos
greater
> than 15G's. Pete Palmara is
installing the monster Greddy turbos, others
have
> installed GT-Pro's
hybrids, etc. What's going on here? Are folks just
>
installing these monster turbos, running high boost, and ignoring the
>
fact/probability that they are detonating?
What do they : Looking on a
A/F meter (with our crap O2 sensors) and on an
EGT gauge (what is accurate).
Running the car below the danger zone of the
EGT should indicate that there
are no problems ... but noone is really sure.
Before I got the logger I had
the car on the dyno and we cranked up boost
until the power went down instead
of up. This is where the timing got
retarded. Now, boost had then be turned
down a little for safety and this
resulted in 1.00 bars max. Now with the
datalogger it's easier to find the
dark zone as a dyno session always
resulted in $100 less in my pocket (gulp)
> Do they just not care that
they knock since they only boost for 1320 feet
?
Well, knock appears
regardless of track or street. The only reason knock is
less o nthe track is
the fact that the car is maybe not heated up that much.
> Is there
another way to eliminate knock ?
We know that a large FMIC and as smooth
piping as possible results in higher
boost at the throttle and therefore the
turbos have not to work that hard.
Therefore the discharge temp is lower, the
IC reduce it even more what
finally results in less danger for detonation and
more power.
> I'm depressed, I'm going to lunch now :)
I
was depressed as well until I was able to control the amount of fuel. Now
the
water injection does more positive than it did with the less fuel and I
feel
a little better although the ignition problem is not yet fixed.
A
sidenote : Some 3S owners also have a datalogger now but it seems they
either
don't use it or don't want to share the logs. I know that there is a
car that
has a Spearco WIS installed and I was told they run up to 20 psi
without
problems and the stock fuel system. I wanted to see a datalog to be
able to
compare to my results. But I never got a log of them :( Only Joe and
another
guy sent me their logs for analysis and it was very interesting to
see the
difference in the VPC setup and my ARC setup with currently
stock
injectors.
Guys, please note that we can learn and find new
solutions only with sharing
data and ideas. When I do a clean-up on my page I
will store all logs on my
pages for reference. It would be nice to have a
centralized DB like the DSM
guys have (not fully completed) and I will gather
them if needed.
Ok, I'm now depressed too and go to bed
:))
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Dec 2 14:41:17 1999
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From: "Curt Gendron"
<curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water Injection
Date:
Thu, 02 Dec 1999 16:40:49 CST
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I suppose I better get my 2hp in here. Roger is showing knock
developing
around 17psi. He has a datalogger, so I'm sure his numbers
are good. When
John and I did testing with his 95 Stealth with the
Spearco WI unit, we
installed a knock LED. It worked as
expected. With the water turned off,
the knock light went on around
15psi. With the water turned on, the knock
light wouldn't go on at
all. Even at around 20psi. I trust our figures,
because I was in
the car, helping with the testing.
One other key thing to remember when
running over 15psi of boost with a
stock fuel system, the ECU can cause fuel
cut because the air-flow
parameters fall off the map. Basiclly this
happens when the turbos spool up
fast and varies based on air temp and
humidity.
In the heat of the summer I've gotten my Stealth to spike to
23psi. (not
recommended) This occured when I had the turbos spool up slowly
with the
Blitz and it was hot out. The ECU set off fuel cut at
23psi.
Now with winter almost here, my Stealth will hit fuel cut at 16psi
if the
turbos spool up fast and the air temps are in the 30s F. I've
done enough
testing with my car, to feel safe saying that the fuel cut was
not because
of detonation.
And Merrit, I think it is a great idea to
add a Spearco unit. It is a lot
cheaper than a big intercooler and is
a good insurance policy. ;)
Here is the mods on my car:
95 Stealth R/T
TT, HKS air filter, HKS exhaust, test pipe, gutted pre-cats,
Blitz DSBC, 1G
DSM BOV, Spearco WI, NGKs gapped at .034
Best quarter mile: 12.85
@107.4mph
Later guys,
Curt
http://www.mn3s.org
Don't forget
to sign up for the Upper Midwest Gathering at:
http://www.mn3s.org/upper-midwest.html
______________________________________________________
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Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From
owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Dec 2 15:51:02 1999
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From:
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To: "Sirius"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Clutch for non-turbo
(FWD) cars for sale, a-pillar
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 17:52:56
-0600
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I have a clutch for non-turbo 3000GTs and Stealths for sale.
It is an ACT
2600lb pressure plate with a street disc and includes throw out
bearing.
This will fit FWD 3000GTs and Steatlhs, and all 2.0 liter turbo
Talons,
Eclipses, and Lasers. It is a very heavy duty clutch and has
taken cars
into the 10's. I have one in my Eclipse and it's
GREAT...never slips, yet
is very streetable. It DOES have increased
pedal pressure but it's not bad
at all. I would like to get $375 +
shipping (brand new, never used.)
THIS WILL *NOT* FIT TURBO AWD
3000GT/STEALTHS!!!!!!
I also have an a-pillar pod for sale already
attached to an a-pillar. If
you buy this you won't have to drill your
a-pillar:) Just pop yours off and
pop mine on. Because it's a
factory a-pillar (not bought over the parts
counter), it is covered in the
same material as the dash; if you buy one
over the parts counter, it's made
of hard molded plastic. The gauge pod
fits 52mm (2 1/16") gauges
(I used an SPI dual illumination boost gauge in
it). An a-pillar
interior piece alone retails for 58.48 and an a-pillar pod
is about $20, so
how about $45 + shipping? (This will fit all
year/model
3000GTs/Stealths except Spyders)
jeff
'95 Mitsubishi
Spyder VR-4
'90 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Dec 2 16:03:01 1999
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Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 18:59:16 -0500
To: "Zentelis none"
<zentelis@hotmail.com>, stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
From: Rick Diogo
<rick@ceo-consulting.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Finally
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Good
choice.....the 94 (in my opinion) is the best year for the stealth.
I
too searched and searched for a 94 until I finally found mine. The
best
attributes of the 94 are as follows:
6 speed trans
last year
of the Auto (climate control-digital) A/C controls (no knobs)
17" chrome
wheels that say "Dodge" - I like that! ;)
Infinity sound
system with 6 disk changer
*Not* an OBD II vehicle, allowing for less
headaches when you go to add
your mods
Good luck in your
search. If I find any 94's for sale I'll shoot you a
quick
email...
Regards,
Rick
94 TT Pearl Yellow
6 speed
Getrag
==================================================
the At 01:59
PM 12/2/99 -0800, Zentelis none wrote:
>Finally! To make a long story
short, I've finally saved enough money to buy
>a Stealth.. (yep, I like
to buy cars with cash). I asked a long time ago
>(though i doubt anyone
remembers), but what are some good places on the net
>to buy used cars?
Autotrader's the only decent one i know of since they took
>over
traderonline..any others? And, What I'm looking to buy is a '94
>TT...what are some good places to look for upgrades? Eventually, I'm
>planning on doing the whole 9 yards in upgrades. Any help would be
great.
>Thanks!
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Dec 2 16:29:28 1999
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From:
"Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@telus.net>
To: "Team3S"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Knock sensor
Date:
Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:27:37 -0800
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Curt;
You wrote:
snip
John and I did testing
with his 95 Stealth with the Spearco WI unit, we
installed a knock LED.
It worked as expected. With the water turned off,
the knock light went
on around 15psi. With the water turned on, the knock
light wouldn't go
on at all. Even at around 20psi. I trust our figures,
because I
was in the car, helping with the testing.
snip
How did you wire
this LED in?? Sounds like a nice safety feature.
(Also for the record,
and I am surprised no one corrected it, the exhaust
cuts automatically
from tour to sport mode at 3500rpm and not 2500rpm as I
posted in an earlier
thread.)
Best
Darc
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
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From
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CC: Team3S
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Rick Brown - work <RBrown@freewayinsurance.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Water Injection
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> Ok, I'm now
depressed too and go to bed :))
Ha, LOL :).
> But this IS
mid-life crisis, LOL. Why the heck do you want to upgrade your
> 91 with
the OBDII stuff ?? Makes no sense to me at all ??? The rest is cool
All I
really want is an inexpensive Datalogger. They are $300 for OBDII.
Whats
wrong with OBDII? There is only an extra set of O2 sensors to
worry about when
you gut precats and that can be taken care of with those
dummy resistor O2
replacements. Is there something else I'm
forgetting? I'd settle for a '94 or
pre-ODBII '95 if I could get a
reasonably priced datalogger instead of the one
that Jeff (last name ?) has
that costs $2200.
I guess I'm really disappointed because I thought water
injection was the
"miracle product" that would allow boost much
higher than 15 psi. According to
Curt & John's knock LED
measurements it does (we need info/measurements on how
well the knock LED
really works though).
Perhaps I should have just asked the
following questions:
Given the following upgrades of K&N air filter,
electronic boost controller, ERL
water injection system, Supra fuel pump,
Split-Second ARC & MAF system, 720 cc
injectors, 15G turbos, downpipe,
gutted pre-cats, high flow main cat, forged
pistons, high compression rings,
upgraded rods, some ignition upgrades (whenever
they are
discovered)
1) What is the max boost I can run on 92 octane fuel
without knock?
2) What is the max boost I can run on 101 octane
unleaded race fuel without
knock?
3) What is the approximate HP
achieved at these max boost levels?
I think I could be really happy with
550 or so daily driver HP with no knock :)
Regards,
Ken "just
mid-life crisis dreaming" Middaugh
--
I'm surprised you stopped me
officer, Dunkin Donuts has a 3 for 1 special!
Ken Middaugh (858)
455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999
17:16:44 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh
<Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Organization: General Atomics - Fusion
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>
> I suppose I better get my 2hp in here. Roger is showing knock
developing
> around 17psi. He has a datalogger, so I'm sure his
numbers are good. When
> John and I did testing with his 95 Stealth
with the Spearco WI unit, we
> installed a knock LED. It worked as
expected. With the water turned off,
> the knock light went on
around 15psi. With the water turned on, the knock
> light wouldn't
go on at all. Even at around 20psi. I trust our figures,
>
because I was in the car, helping with the testing.
Can you describe the
knock LED, what is it, how is it hooked up, what does it
measure
(voltage?). Maybe someone with a datalogger can compare the
logger's
knock count with the knock LED to give us an idea of how well it
works.
--
I'm surprised you stopped me officer, Dunkin Donuts has
a 3 for 1 special!
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San
Diego
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Dec 2 17:36:56 1999
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From:
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References:
<004f01bf3c84$e5a35720$88c10118@home.com>
<004801bf3cb1$f2b688b0$2b8a83d8@peoplesoft.com>
<3846AF03.51D445BC@gat.com> <00a501bf3cfc$6caf0da0$0fe2e6c2@rg>
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Water Injection
(semi-long)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 19:38:50 -0600
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Middaugh"
<Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
To: "R.G."
<robby@freesurf.ch>
Cc: "Team3S"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>; "Rick Brown -
work"
<RBrown@freewayinsurance.com>
Sent: Thursday, December
02, 1999 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water Injection
> All I
really want is an inexpensive Datalogger. They are $300 for
OBDII.
Whats
> wrong with OBDII? There is only an extra set of O2
sensors to worry about
when
> you gut precats and that can be taken
care of with those dummy resistor O2
> replacements. Is there
something else I'm forgetting? I'd settle for a
'94 or
>
pre-ODBII '95 if I could get a reasonably priced datalogger instead of
the
one
> that Jeff (last name ?) has that costs $2200.
Wong
:) Jeff Wong...heh... I was the one from the '98 DSM shootout
who
blew up alongside Barry King and had to do the clutch swap in the
parking
lot of the hotel:) The Snap On datalogger is actually not as
good as the
TMO in my opinion. It's probably better for
troubleshooting, but not nearly
as good for tuning. It has a tiny
numeric display that only supports DRB
functions, but was the one of the few
things I could find that could monitor
timing advance. Unfortunately as
it stands, mine doesn't even work on my
car because I don't have the right
adapter cables (bought mine used.) Also
that $2200 doesn't include the
datalogger software or PC interface cable.
> I guess I'm really
disappointed because I thought water injection was the
> "miracle
product" that would allow boost much higher than 15 psi.
According
to
> Curt & John's knock LED measurements it does (we need
info/measurements on
how
> well the knock LED really works
though).
The knock LED, if I am not incorrect works the same way that it
does on the
DSM cars (Talons/Eclipses/Lasers) and I see no reason why it
shouldn't. It
isn't actually a knock LED--it's a boost solenoid
LED. What it does is
monitor when the boost solenoid shuts off.
This is useful because the boost
solenoid will only shut off for a certain
number of reasons:
1) if the air flow measured passes a certain point (of
which I have no idea)
2) if the knock sensor detects knock above a certain
point
3) certain error codes will turn the solenoid off too
#3 really
isn't relevent to our discussion because we assume you have a
working
car. #1 and #2 however, are very relevent. From the factory,
the
cars run very rich, for safety reasons. Unfortunately this means
that they
will set off the BS LED (Boost Solenoid LED) before there's
actually knock.
If you use an AFC or VPC or whatever to lean your car out a
little you can
take care of this "false knock." Because you
are required to lean your car
out in order to make this tuning technique
work, you'll probably need bigger
fuel injectors. The reason that
leaning out with an AFC/VPC works is
because both play around with the MAS
signal in order to control fuel. To
lean out they tell the ECU that
there's less air flowing; to richen up they
tell the ECU there's more
flowing. I was able to run 18psi on pump gas in
my Eclipse with zero
knock (as determined by both the TMO datalogger and BS
LED) by dumping fuel
in (AFC with 550cc injectors.) I didn't hit fuel cut
or trigger the
knock LED because my AFC knobs were still on the left (lean.)
So, here's what
you need, short of a TECII or Motec (I hate giving
away
secrets!):
fuel controller (to lean out the MAS signal)
big
fuel injectors (to compensate for the leaning out of the AFC)
good
intercooling (to reduce cylinder temperatures, and therefore
reduce
knock)
The fuel injectors need to be big enough to put you in
the ballpark for how
much fuel you need. You can use the fuel
controller to fine tune it (as
long as it's on the lean side.) If you
ever have to richen up the mixture
with the fuel controller you need bigger
fuel injectors or if you're only a
little bit off an adjustable fuel pressure
regulator.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that all the ranges
need to be leaned.
If you need to richen up one particular RPM range to give
you the correct
fuel curve, then by all means do so because the goal is to
keep the BS LED
from coming on because of too much air flow and richening up
one range won't
necessarily trigger it. It's really something you have
to experiment with.
IMO the BS LED is USELESS if you have no fuel control or
you're using your
fuel control to richen up.
> 1) What is the
max boost I can run on 92 octane fuel without knock?
> 2) What is
the max boost I can run on 101 octane unleaded race fuel
without
>
knock?
> 3) What is the approximate HP achieved at these max boost
levels?
Unfortunately this all depends on each individual car. Too
many variables
exist, like build quality, EXACT modifications, weather,
compression, etc.
You'll just have to find out yourself:)
jeff
'95
Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
'90 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Dec 2 18:00:16 1999
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Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 20:56:38 -0500
To:
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From: Rick Diogo
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Subject: Team3S: Chrysler DRB II scan tool
for sale
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I have decided
to sell my DRB II scan tool. It comes complete with the
Mitsubishi
adapter and the Jeep/Eagle adapter. It comes with the
yellow
"Super cartridge". It scans all models from 83 to 93.
(and some 94 models)
This scanner is $2,800 dealer cost. I will let mine
go for $1,500. It is
basically brand new. Comes with all the
different cables to do both
Chrysler and Mitsubishi. Tells you
everything from knock to o2 voltage, to
Mhz (air flow meter), to air charge
temperature, injector duty cycle,
wastegate duty cycle, purge operation,
fault codes, suspension (sport vs
tour) exhaust mode (sport vs tour),
odometer mileage check (burned into the
Eprom-Chrysler only), and about
twenty other things. As for the 3/s cars,
it will work on 91-93 TT and
non turbo models (both VR-4 and Stealth)
Eclipse/Laser/Talon up to
94.
First come first serve. Serious inquiries only
please.
Regards,
Rick
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
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From
owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Dec 2 18:32:59 1999
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Reply-To: <beking@home.com>
From:
"Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
To: "Team3S"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Knock
sensor
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 19:34:34 -0700
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Just a note
about the "knock LED" modification.
It does NOT detect
knock. What it does is detect the ECU's attempt to open
the waste gates
to dump boost.
By the time the ECU is doing this the engine is operating
at maximum
ignition retard. Translation, when that light comes on and
the stock boost
control system has been bypassed (any boost controller) there
are no safety
measures.
I did this very simple modification and took
it out. It is a very loose
indication at best and the very bad thing
about it is that it can be
misused. That is, if you don't see the LED
then there must not be knock.
This is simply NOT the case.
So, if you
install it, use it as a sign that you have **exceeded** (not
approached or
encroached upon) the maximum knock counts the ECU will
tolerate. It
cannot be used to reliably indicate the presence of excessive
knock.
Excessive knock is ALREADY happening well before the LED comes
on.
Roger's measurements indicate this.
On the topic of detonation
and knock, this is a normal occurence in any
internal combustion
engine. Normally aspirated engines will (or rather can)
benefit from
anti-knock and intake charge cooling devices too, it is just
that the
benefits will usually be over a narrowing operating spectrum and
offer a less
dramatic icrease in power in the absence of other work (like
increased flow,
increased compression and general increased
engine
efficiency).
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
>
>
> Curt;
>
> You
wrote:
>
> snip
>
> John and I did testing with his 95
Stealth with the Spearco WI unit, we
> installed a knock LED. It
worked as expected. With the water turned off,
> the knock light
went on around 15psi. With the water turned on, the knock
> light
wouldn't go on at all. Even at around 20psi. I trust our
figures,
> because I was in the car, helping with the
testing.
>
> snip
>
> How did you wire this LED in??
Sounds like a nice safety feature.
>
> (Also for the record, and I
am surprised no one corrected it, the exhaust
> cuts automatically
from tour to sport mode at 3500rpm and not
> 2500rpm as I
> posted
in an earlier thread.)
>
>
> Best
>
>
Darc
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Dec 2 18:42:17 1999
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Date: Thu, 02
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From: Michael Booker
<mrbook@gate.net>
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CC: Stealth List
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Subject: Re: Team3S: NA
news.
References:
<242EA98B2B7DD311985A0090277AED510F0DAF@CLEARCREEK.corp.netapp.com>
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I wasn't going
to use larger pipesfor my design, as I saw the stock pipe
and the 90 degree
"intrusion" of the rear bank into the exhaust flow,
and my "NA
downpipe" is merely going to smooth this out. It will collect
and merge
into the converter, like the TT downpipes. I am not expecting
a huge gain
here. I'm just doing as many bolt-on mods as I can to my
motor before I have
to result to the fun stuff(boring/stroker kit, head
porting) which will
require engine teardown.
I have a question for any NA OBD-II car owner out
there. Can you look at
your exhaust, and tell me how many O2 housings you
have in front of the
converter. My 93 only has one, and I'm hoping the OBD-II
cars don't have
more in front of the cat so that the downpipe I'm having made
will be
universal for all NA engines. Thanks!
Matt
3/Si #311
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Dec 2 21:30:01 1999
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From: "Curt Gendron"
<curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Knock sensor
Date:
Thu, 02 Dec 1999 23:29:37 CST
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bulk
Well, John's first attempt ended up killing his knock sensor after a
few
months. The new way is the same way the 2G DSM does it. I'll
leave it to
the detectives out there to search http://www.dsm.org for the
installation.
later,
Curt
Sign up for the Upper Midwest Gathering
at:
http://www.mn3s.org/upper-midwest.html
>From: "Darcy
Gunnlaugson" <wce@telus.net>
>To: "Team3S"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
>Subject: Team3S: Knock
sensor
>Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:27:37
-0800
>
>Curt;
>snip
>
>How did you wire this LED
in?? Sounds like a nice safety
feature.
>
>
>
>Best
>
>Darc
______________________________________________________
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Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From
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From: "Curt Gendron"
<curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water Injection
(semi-long)
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 23:46:19 CST
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I agree with
everything you say except for the statement below. The BS LED
will
blink slowly in the low RPMs but if it turns solid in the upper RPMs
then
you know the ECU is sending a signal to the boost solinoid because too
much
knock is present and the timing is getting retarded. And therefore the
ECU
is trying to adjust boost.
This is vital if you have water injection with
a stock fuel system. It will
tell you if the water is
working.
The ECU is constantly sending signals to your boost
solinoid. If you ever
run your car hard on the highway and come to a
stoplight and idle, listen
carefully to the middle part of your firewall
area. You'll probably hear a
little tick-tick-tick noise. The
boost solinoid is making changes since
your now idling instead of
WOT.
later,
Curt
http://www.mn3s.org
--------------------------------------
IMO
the BS LED is USELESS if you have no fuel control or you're using your
fuel
control to richen
up.
______________________________________________________
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Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From
owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Dec 2 21:54:35 1999
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From: "Curt Gendron"
<curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Knock sensor
Date:
Thu, 02 Dec 1999 23:54:09 CST
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Hey Barry,
Actually the first knock LED that was in John's
car did detect knock and not
ECU signals to the boost solinoid. It was
connected directly to the knock
sensor. (Hence the reason for the
knock sensor to eventually get fried)
But your right. The LED that
the DSM guys have been using will only tell
you when timing retard and
possible detonation is occuring. You don't want
that LED to light up
very often, unless you like rebuilds. ;)
later,
Curt
Sign up for
the Upper Midwest Gathering at:
http://www.mn3s.org/upper-midwest.html
>From: "Barry E.
King" <beking@home.com>
>Reply-To:
<beking@home.com>
>To: "Team3S"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
>Subject: RE: Team3S: Knock
sensor
>Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 19:34:34 -0700
>
>Just a note
about the "knock LED" modification.
>
>It does NOT detect
knock. What it does is detect the ECU's attempt to open
>the waste
gates to dump boost.
>
>By the time the ECU is doing this the engine
is operating at maximum
>ignition retard. Translation, when that
light comes on and
the
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From
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Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 02:08:46
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From: "John T. Christian"
<jczoom@geocities.com>
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To: Team3SI
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
CC: George Kuo
<amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Stock rims
question....
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Hi
George,
Sorry George the TT rims won't fit either.
I had to buy
new rims when I converted to the '94 system.
But the stock TT rims
will almost fit over Brad's BIG RED braking
system. I modified a set of
Supra TT rotors to use with Brad's system.
They have a different offset than
our rotors and fit back farther toward
the engine so there is even more
clearance. But you'd have to grind
away part of the weld that holds the
spoke onto the rim. I didn't.
BTW Brad's BIG REDs are less
expensive than converting to the stock '94
system. PLUS they will
repeatedly stop our heavy cars even under road
course conditions.
You
can see my BIG REDS on my homepage as well as brake cooling system.
If
you plan to do high performance driving you'll need to upgrade
your
brakes.
Be of good
cheer
John
www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538
George Kuo
wrote:
>
> I was wondering if '94+ stock rotors will fit into
1st
> gen Stealth RT TT rims? I know they wont fit into 1st
> gen
VR4 rims.. thanx in advance for your help!!
>
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Flats/8576/Intro.html
>
--
JCZoooM 93 TT 12.46@109Mph Now with Porsche
brakes
Email---> JCZooM@iname.com
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Dec 3 01:49:13 1999
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From: "R.G."
<robby@freesurf.ch>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
References:
<199912030204.VAA09033@mail.ceo-web.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Chrysler
DRB II scan tool for sale
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:07:08
+0100
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The TMO
datalogger has a DRBII simulation mode built in ... cost is $300 for OBDI
systems (90-93 and some 94) ! Cable is the same for Stealth and 3k.
>
This scanner is $2,800 dealer cost. I will let mine go for $1,500. It
is
> basically brand new. Comes with all the different cables to do
both
> Chrysler and Mitsubishi.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Dec 3 01:49:19 1999
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From: "R.G."
<robby@freesurf.ch>
To: "Team3S"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
References:
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<3846AF03.51D445BC@gat.com> <00a501bf3cfc$6caf0da0$0fe2e6c2@rg>
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Water
Injection
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:28:43 +0100
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> All I
really want is an inexpensive Datalogger.
TMO datalogger $300 icludes
everything including graphs. Although I do have a wishlist but Todd Day is not
willing to add more features :(
> They are $300 for OBDII. Whats
wrong with OBDII? There is only an extra set of O2 sensors to worry about
when
> you gut precats and that can be taken care of with those dummy
resistor O2 replacements.
Cost .... it simply gives you ... nothing but
OBDII. And this only for getting a datalogger that is not half as good as the
TMO ? We speak almost for a year about the logger I'm using. You may check
back my pages for some comparisons on the ARC/MAF kit where I included some
logs.
> I guess I'm really disappointed because I thought water
injection was the
> "miracle product" that would allow boost
much higher than 15 psi. According to
> Curt & John's knock LED
measurements it does (we need info/measurements on how
> well the knock
LED really works though).
Well, I think it was a good begin to get a
simple (more ore less) solution for a knock LED. With the TMO knock is logged as
the ECU sees it and this counts to me and nothing else. The knock LED will be a
warning light for me in the future that tells me that there is sonething going
wrong. I think a knock LED with a filter for the signal is not that good for
tuning in because on a test drive there is just not enough time for us humanoids
to check out everything at the same time.
> Given the following
upgrades of K&N air filter, electronic boost controller, ERL
> water
injection system, Supra fuel pump, Split-Second ARC & MAF system, 720
cc
> injectors, 15G turbos, downpipe, gutted pre-cats, high flow main cat,
forged
> pistons, high compression rings, upgraded rods, some ignition
upgrades (whenever
> they are discovered)
This is damn close to my
setup I have on the car in Spring. Only the pistons and rings are causing me
headache :((
> 1) What is the max boost I can run on 92 octane
fuel without knock?
> 2) What is the max boost I can run on 101
octane unleaded race fuel without
> knock?
> 3) What is the
approximate HP achieved at these max boost levels?
1) who knows ..... (me
soon)
2) I will never find out (no access to such fuel here)
3) approx
600hp
> I think I could be really happy with 550 or so daily driver HP
with no knock :)
The good thing is that the ARC allows you to upgrade to
720cc at any time.
To me it was ok so far as I see that there is really
an improvement (compared to many other mods). I was blocked by testing as the
more water I injected the weaker the ignition got so till now we know that other
cars with WI run very good and I may have to fight with the different quality of
fuel ! We will see when the snow is gone ;-)
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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From: "R.G."
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To:
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<19991203052938.73817.qmail@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Knock
sensor
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:37:59 +0100
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> Well,
John's first attempt ended up killing his knock sensor after a few
>
months. The new way is the same way the 2G DSM does it. I'll leave
it to
> the detectives out there to search http://www.dsm.org for the
installation.
As previously mentioned, the knock LED was hooked up with a
filter that was tuned in. It is not that simple to tune such a filter and
unfortunately fried the KS :(
The first way the DSM guys hock up the
knock LED (boost solenoid) is more wrong than right. This because the valve
alternates due to our TT system (no knock measured). Also it simply shows when
the valve is closed and this is pretty early !
The second way the DSMs
are working on is using a GM filter that could be directly attached to the KS.
This circuit is replaceable in the GM ECUs and I for myself replaced the one in
my LT1 with the one of the LT4 that are less sensitive (changed valvetrain).
Unfortunately, the KS is not the same and noone has tried it out (danger of
killing a KS or ECU !)
I'm having the MSD KS for $149 and it comes with a
complicated analoge filter, a 10LED bargraph for showing the knock and a sensor
(i.e. microphone). Unfortunately, thing is pretty large and I just don't know
where to mount it.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe
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From
owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Dec 3 01:49:39 1999
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From: "R.G."
<robby@freesurf.ch>
To: "Curt Gendron"
<curt_gendron@hotmail.com>,
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Water
Injection (semi-long)
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> I agree
with everything you say except for the statement below. The BS LED
> will blink slowly in the low RPMs but if it turns solid in the upper
RPMs
> then you know the ECU is sending a signal to the boost solinoid
because too
> much knock is present and the timing is getting retarded.
And therefore the
> ECU is trying to adjust boost.
Almost true.
But we all know that boost is calculated from the airflow and therefore not
real. Now the ECU sees a specific boost then and starts to close the BS. This is
because the system simply wants to keep the boost at the stock level. Therefore
it is closed long before we really hit our desired boost levels. Of course this
changes when using a fuel controller !
Roger
93'3000GT TT
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From: "Sam Shelat"
<sshelat@erols.com>
To: "Team3S"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water
Injection
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 07:47:13 -0800
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bulk
What about thermal coatings for the pistons and combustion
chambers? has
anyone tried
water wetter from Redline to help reduce
engine temps? I know these might
give only minor improvements
but
every bit helps in helping eliminate detonation. Also, how good are
our
heads? Do they introduce enough swirl and tumble to help burn the
mixture?
Sam 95 VR4
-----Original Message-----
From: R.G.
<robby@freesurf.ch>
To: Team3S
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Thursday, December 02, 1999 2:27
PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water Injection
>> If I have an
upgraded fuel system with 720 cc injectors and dump fuel in,
>will
I
>> still see knock at 17 psi with WI? 18
psi?
>
>The idea is the combination of fuel and water by using
simple pump gas. I'm
>positive that high psi is possible but the turbos
are way out of ther
>efficiency island :(
>
>> Is an
ignition upgrade going to be the cure-all for the early
knock
>problem?
>
>This is the theory as gapping down the
plugs to 0.030 is getting rid of the
>problem but calls others. Therefore
an increased energy level at the plugs
>is desired ! I'm working on a
solution with GN coil packs but I can't say
>anything yet. Also a
TechnoMotive ignition would help but this is probably
>an expensive
solution.
>
>> My current mid-life crisis dream is not as
ambitious as Arty's or
numerous
>> others. I'd just like to
upgrade my '91 VR4 to a '95 with ECS and OBDII,
>get an
>> OBDII
datalogger for tuning, install 15G's, Split-Second system, 720cc
>>
injectors, etc (BC, fuel pump, pistons & rings) (not necessarily in
that
>order
>> ;)).
>
>But this IS mid-life crisis,
LOL. Why the heck do you want to upgrade your
>91 with the OBDII stuff ??
Makes no sense to me at all ??? The rest is cool
>and the 15g are
appropriate for the targeted power. This is pretty close to
>my setup
then, although I have headers and the big GT Pro turbos ready
to
go
>in.
>
>> I was hoping to install an ERL WI
and run 23 psi with no knock! Is my
>> dream
unrealistic?
>
>Well, with dumping fuel in I'm pretty sure you can
run such high boost. The
>WI will make this even better and allows you to
run such a high boost with
>pump gas.
>
>> Your data is
showing knock starting at 17 psi with a non-lean
condition.
>This
>> is very disappointing since WI is supposed to
be equivalent to 140+
octane
>> fuel. What should max boost be
with 140 octane fuel?
>
>How do we know if the stock pistons/rings
withstand 20 psi ? Also if one
has
>a noisy valvetrain, how will the
knock sensor pick up this stuff (this is
>why it is installed on a bracket
between the banks). Over the years, this
>bracket got rusty as well as the
KS is probably to hard in its seat. I
speak
>of "false knock"
and noone can tell us how this can be eliminated. I'll
>definitely replace
the bracket when installing the new injectors.
>
>> Others have
reported running 20+ psi. Folks are upgrading to
turbos
>greater
>> than 15G's. Pete Palmara is installing
the monster Greddy turbos, others
>have
>> installed GT-Pro's
hybrids, etc. What's going on here? Are folks just
>>
installing these monster turbos, running high boost, and ignoring
the
>> fact/probability that they are detonating?
>
>What
do they : Looking on a A/F meter (with our crap O2 sensors) and on an
>EGT
gauge (what is accurate). Running the car below the danger zone of
the
>EGT should indicate that there are no problems ... but noone is
really
sure.
>Before I got the logger I had the car on the dyno and we
cranked up boost
>until the power went down instead of up. This is where
the timing got
>retarded. Now, boost had then be turned down a little for
safety and this
>resulted in 1.00 bars max. Now with the datalogger it's
easier to find the
>dark zone as a dyno session always resulted in $100
less in my pocket
(gulp)
>
>> Do they just not care that they
knock since they only boost for 1320 feet
>?
>
>Well, knock
appears regardless of track or street. The only reason knock is
>less o
nthe track is the fact that the car is maybe not heated up
that
much.
>
>> Is there another way to eliminate knock
?
>
>We know that a large FMIC and as smooth piping as possible
results in
higher
>boost at the throttle and therefore the turbos have
not to work that hard.
>Therefore the discharge temp is lower, the IC
reduce it even more what
>finally results in less danger for detonation
and more power.
>
>> I'm depressed, I'm going to lunch now
:)
>
>I was depressed as well until I was able to control the amount
of fuel. Now
>the water injection does more positive than it did with the
less fuel and I
>feel a little better although the ignition problem is not
yet fixed.
>
>A sidenote : Some 3S owners also have a datalogger now
but it seems they
>either don't use it or don't want to share the logs. I
know that there is a
>car that has a Spearco WIS installed and I was told
they run up to 20 psi
>without problems and the stock fuel system. I
wanted to see a datalog to be
>able to compare to my results. But I never
got a log of them :( Only Joe
and
>another guy sent me their logs for
analysis and it was very interesting to
>see the difference in the VPC
setup and my ARC setup with currently
stock
>injectors.
>
>Guys, please note that we can learn and
find new solutions only with
sharing
>data and ideas. When I do a
clean-up on my page I will store all logs on my
>pages for reference. It
would be nice to have a centralized DB like the DSM
>guys have (not fully
completed) and I will gather them if needed.
>
>Ok, I'm now
depressed too and go to bed :))
>
>Roger
>93'3000GT
TT
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Dec 3 05:07:52 1999
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From: "Sam Shelat"
<sshelat@erols.com>
To: "team3s"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Finally
Date:
Fri, 3 Dec 1999 07:53:18 -0800
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bulk
>Good choice.....the 94 (in my opinion) is the best
year for the stealth. I
>too searched and searched for a 94 until I
finally found mine. The best
>attributes of the 94 are as
follows:
>
>6 speed trans
>last year of the Auto (climate
control-digital) A/C controls (no knobs)
-----so does the 95
VR4
>17" chrome wheels that say "Dodge" - I like
that! ;)
-----the 95 comes with 18" (heavy) chrome
wheels
>Infinity sound system with 6 disk changer
>*Not* an OBD
II vehicle, allowing for less headaches when you go to add
------the 95
and 94 have a quasi-OBDII w/o the extra 02 sensors, but
have
its not OBDII, but has the
OBDII port?
other than that your info is right on. I do not know
who has a datalogger
for 94-95
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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From:
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To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Knock sensor
Date:
Fri, 3 Dec 1999 07:09:25 -0600
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Precedence: bulk
OK to
clarify.
My first knock LED was attached to the knock sensor signal line
coming into
the ECU. The filter was essentially an electronic crossover
comprised of
some high-end audio pieces a friend of mine soldered together on
a board for
me (he did a damn nice job too). :-) What happened, I
still don't know to
this day. Bottom line the knock sensor ceased to
provide a signal. Now,
knock sensors are extremely tough little pieces,
and ruining one ALMOST
always involves physical damage, not electrical.
Perhaps mine was just a
bad component to start with, but I removed our
circuit none the less. It
seemed to me that I just shouldn't be
screwing around with the one component
left on the car that might save my
ass. :-)
So now I have a LED attached to the stock BCS. It's
operation is difficult
to get used to. Thanks to Todd Day I have a
little info about why it acts
the way it does. As you start to
accelerate the BCS will pulse, extremely
fast at first and then slower and
slower as the rpms increase. The ECU
pulsates the BCS to bring the
boost in more smoothly (under normal driving
conditions). Now,
eventually (about 5000RPM), the ECU quits pulsating the
BCS entirely, at this
point the turbos are blowing for all they are worth.
If the ECU detects
knock, and it can't get rid of it by pulling the timing
back, it will then
turn the BCS on steady-state, to drop pressure across the
board. So is
the indicator useful? I belive so. Has knock occurred
already
when the light comes on solid? Yep, and ignoring it will certainly
lead
to winter project out in the garage getting intimate with the internals
of a
3 liter Mits. The key is to respond accordingly, and immediately.
Has
mine tripped? Yep, ran out of water. A pretty bone head thing
to do, I
know. When it lit steady, my first thought was "What the
hell?". Over to
the side of the road I went, proceeded to
check the fuse for the water,
then found the empty resevoir. I filled
the tank, and within about 5 miles
of grandma driving the light went back to
blinking.
Now as to safe boost levels with water. I do believe one
can run 17-18psi
max pressure with the 9Bs. Keep in mind the 9Bs will
only make this amount
of pressure to about 5200RPM, then start to fall.
Also keep in mind that
the motor will have 'some' knock even in stock
form. Roger could confirm
this for us by datalogging a 12psi full
throttle 4th gear pull from 30mph.
You will probably see knock counts around
10. Todd Day mentioned the car
starts pulling the timing back when the
knock counts trips 26. I had the
oppurtunity to datalog a friends car
with the Spearco installed (a '92 VR4).
On the water at 17psi we saw knock
counts of 6-11. 6 was the peak in 2nd
gear, 11 the peak in
3rd. Capping off the water, and setting boost to 15psi
we saw knock
counts of 18-22. We never did see the timing get pulled back.
It was
running at 52 deg advanced at the redline during both of those runs.
I am
pretty sure if I was able to datalog my car I would see knock counts
around
15 when I'm running 18psi on pump gas. I'm not going to sweat
it
though, I've been doing it for almost 6 months now, without any
problems.
The key to all of this is balance. Strapping 15Gs to the
car and expecting
to get 18psi at the redline without knock is not
realistic. With more
airflow one needs more fuel. Without more
fuel the combustion temps will
skyrocket, once again creating dangerous knock
conditions. Water is not a
substitue for a healthy fuel system.
In our case, it simply lets us run at
the edge of our fuel
system.
John Basol
'95 RT/TT 12.85 @ 107.3
'00
Eclipse GT "Go ahead, put your coffee on the dash, it'll still be
there
when we hit the 1320' mark."
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Dec 3 05:34:37 1999
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From: "R.G."
<robby@freesurf.ch>
To: "Team3S"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
References:
<01bf3da5$ab4b4c00$0ec4accf@default>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water
Injection / temperatures
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:33:25
+0100
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> What about
thermal coatings for the pistons and combustion chambers ?
Forged pistons
are good enough for our engines. The problem is, that thermal coated parts will
not transfer heat good enough and therefore are not a wishful thing for cylinder
walls as an example.
> anyone tried water wetter from Redline to help
reduce engine temps?
Water wetter is a coolant (addon ?) and will keep
the engine running cooler. But on our cars, this is not a problem and therefore
may not help a lot if any.
> Also, how good are our heads?
Do they introduce enough swirl and tumble to help burn the mixture?
Here
you touched a good point ! I think there is improvement possible at least on the
exhaust side but also on the turbulence factor for the inlets. I will probably
get a set of used heads (with damaged valves) and let one do a good job on them.
As you said, maybe every little helps to reduce the tendency for
detonation.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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From:
"Dy, Leonard" <DyL@CTT.com>
To: "3SI (E-mail)"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: hallman boost
controller
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:08:09 -0600
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Just acquired a Hallman boost controller from a friend that had it
installed
in a DSM. The only problem is that I only have installation
instructions
for the DSM application. Obviously there a differences in
the set-up, maybe
minor, but differences at that. I believe some
people have this boost
controller installed already and I was hoping someone
could give me the
information I need to install it properly.
Thanks,
Len 95 VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Dec 3 07:36:55 1999
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From: Matt Jannusch
<MAJ@BigCharts.com>
To: "3SI (E-mail)"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: hallman boost
controller
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:36:50 -0600
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> Just
acquired a Hallman boost controller from a friend that
> had it installed
in a DSM. The only problem is that I only
> have installation
instructions for the DSM application.
> Obviously there a differences in
the set-up, maybe
> minor, but differences at that. I believe
some people have
> this boost controller installed already and I was
hoping
> someone could give me the information I need to install it
properly.
On the Y-pipe near the throttle body is a hose and barb
which feeds the stock boost control system. Disconnect the hose and cap
off the barb somehow (short piece of hose with a screw inserted in the end will
work if you don't have a better way - the Hallman comes with a little cap that
works). Tee the line from the throttle body to the compressor bypass valve
(CBV is behind the airbox, when looking at it from the passenger side) and put
the feed end of the Hallman on the tee. The other major hose goes to the
wastegate lines, which are connected to a connector behind the motor near the
top which looks like an "H". One of the legs on the connector
goes to the feed hose disconnected in the first step, two others go to the
turbos' wastegate actuators and the last hose goes to the boost control solenoid
on the firewall. Disconnect the two lines from the "H" connector
that go to the wastegate actuators and put a "T" on there, connecting
them together and to the output end of th!
e Hallman. If there's a
little line on the Hallman near the output end, you can get a reducer piece from
an auto parts shop or hardware store to connect it to the line that goes to the
boost control solenoid.
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Dec 3 08:20:59 1999
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From: "R.G."
<robby@freesurf.ch>
To: "3SI (E-mail)"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
References:
<6C09D9B03136D31183980090276269655F7865@EXCHANGE1>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
hallman boost controller
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:20:01
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> Disconnect
the two lines from the "H" connector that go to the wastegate
actuators
> and put a "T" on there, connecting them together and
to the output end of the Hallman.
Do it simple and connect the
disconnected line from the y-pipe to the Hallman outlet. Then remove the lower
hose from the boost solenoid and cap both sides off. Do NOT LEAVE the little
hoses open as described before because the one at the boost solenoid could suck
in dirty are into the rear turbo.
Good luck !
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Dec 3 08:24:26 1999
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From: Matt Jannusch
<MAJ@BigCharts.com>
To: "3SI (E-mail)"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: hallman boost
controller
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:24:19 -0600
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> Do it
simple and connect the disconnected line from the
> y-pipe to the Hallman
outlet. Then remove the lower hose from
> the boost solenoid and cap both
sides off. Do NOT LEAVE the
> little hoses open as described before
because the one at the
> boost solenoid could suck in dirty are into the
rear turbo.
Nope, don't do that. The Hallman wants to see manifold
pressure, not Y-pipe pressure to help keep the spoolup as rapid as possible when
you get back on the gas.
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Dec 3 11:16:44 1999
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Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 14:15:44 -0500
To:
"R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>,
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
From: Rick D
<rick@ceo-consulting.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Chrysler DRB II scan
tool for sale
In-Reply-To:
<007401bf3d73$d370ed70$318a83d8@peoplesoft.com>
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At 10:07 AM 12/3/99 +0100, R.G. wrote:
>The TMO datalogger has
a DRBII simulation mode built in ... cost is $300
>for OBDI systems
(90-93 and some 94) ! Cable is the same for Stealth and 3k.
Who makes
this TMO datalogger? I would be seriously surprised if the
datalogger
has the same diagnostic capabilities as a Factory (Chrysler)
professional
scan tool. I have used the MUT scan tool when I wrenched
for Mitsubishi and it doesn't hold a candle to the DRB II....not even
close.
> > This scanner is $2,800 dealer cost. I
will let mine go for $1,500. It is
> > basically brand new.
Comes with all the different cables to do both
> > Chrysler and
Mitsubishi.
>
>Roger
>93'3000GT TT
>For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:42:18 -0800
From: "Kevin Fanciulli"
<nebula9@home.com>
To: "Team3S"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>,
"Starnet Mailing List" <stealth@starnet.net>
Subject: Team3S:
Rear wheel spins, front doesn't budge -- AWD???
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999
12:46:50 -0700
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Hi
everyone. I've got a quick question regarding the AWD of the
TT's...
Having trouble trying to get up my driveway today in 3 inches of
snow, I
opened my door and noticed that the rear wheel was spinning yet the
front
didn't move! I'm not an expert w/ the AWD makeup but I thought it
would
always drive the front wheels... how could they NOT be driven?
It's all
connected together via hardware, right? I can't think of any
component
damage that would cause this.
I tried all different throttle
positions... turbos full boost and no boost,
clutch slip and no clutch slip,
etc... The front wheel would not move. I
did hear a bit of a
'whining' (not very high pitched) sound coming from the
engine when the rear
wheels began to spin -- might be related to my
problem...?
If it
matters at all, I have a limited-slip rear differential (which is
probably
the only reason I was able to finally get into my garage). My
clutch is
also most likely going out, although it is not 'slipping' yet --
just hard to
engage.
Any help would be appreciated!
-kevin fanciulli
'92 Stealth
RT/TT
3Si #0375
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Dec 3 12:17:09 1999
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Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:43:06 -0800 (PST)
From: joseph dorsey
<ja_dorsey@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: Bay Area Stealth/3KGT
To:
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List,
First off, this list provides great info.
echange.
I just spent @ $1,100 in parts and labor
for
replacing:
Timing Belt/Water Pump, Drive Belts, and Spark Plugs.
Labor ran $600 (Mitsu Dealership.) Do any of you Bay
Area residents
know of any good, experienced,
independent "less expensive"
Dodge/Mitsu mechanics in
our area? Any referrals would be greatly
appreciated.
Thanks,
jdorsey '91 stealth r/t twin
__________________________________________________
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
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From: Matt Jannusch
<MAJ@BigCharts.com>
To: Team3S
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Rear wheel spins,
front doesn't budge -- AWD???
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:22:01 -0600
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> Having
trouble trying to get up my driveway today in 3 inches
> of snow, I
opened my door and noticed that the rear wheel was
> spinning yet the
front didn't move! I'm not an expert w/ the
> AWD makeup but I
thought it would always drive the front
> wheels... how could they NOT be
driven? It's all connected
> together via hardware, right? I
can't think of any component
> damage that would cause this.
The
front differential is open, meaning it isn't limited slip. Were neither of
the front wheels spinning, or possibly just the one on the side of the car you
weren't watching?
It is possible that the viscous coupling in the tranny
is damaged. You could also possibly have broken spider gears in the front
differential, which would cause a lack of power transfer to the front, however
then I'd expect that your tranny would be broken rather quickly by the loose
pieces floating around in the oil. You probably would've heard/noticed
something that major. Easiest way to check is to put the car on a lift or
on four secure jackstands and start it up and put it in gear. With no
resistance on the wheels, all four should turn. You'll likely be able to
stop one of the fronts without a whole lot of effort, but both rear wheels
should spin all the time or require a fair amount of effort to change speed on
one side or the other.
> I tried all different throttle positions...
turbos full boost
> and no boost, clutch slip and no clutch slip,
etc... The
> front wheel would not move. I did hear a bit of a
'whining'
> (not very high pitched) sound coming from the engine when
the
> rear wheels began to spin -- might be related to my
>
problem...?
Does this statement mean that you railed on it with the
wheels spinning freely? If so, the viscous coupler is probably damaged now
if it wasn't already. Read the owners manual, it specifically tells you
not to do this for that reason.
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
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From: "Kevin Fanciulli"
<nebula9@home.com>
To: "Team3S"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>, <stealth@starnet.net>
Subject:
Team3S: RE: Rear wheel spins, CONFIRMED - fronts don't spin.
Date: Fri, 3 Dec
1999 13:52:17 -0700
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I just went out and confirmed with my brother that neither of the
front
wheels move when the rear wheels are spinning... So I guess this
most
likely means the worst :(.
<looking over warranty papers to
see if transmission is covered>
-kevin fanciulli
'92 Stealth
RT/TT
3Si #0375
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff
[mailto:spydervr4@home.com]
> Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 1:16
PM
> To: stealth@starnet.net
> Subject: Re: Rear wheel spins, front
doesn't budge -- AWD???
>
>
> If that is indeed true (verify
by having someone else look at the
> car, while
> you do it) then
you have a toasted center differential.
> Unfortunately this
> means
you need a new transmission. Before you jump to any
> conclusions,
make
> sure you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. Under normal conditions,
assuming all 4
> wheels loose traction for more than about half a second,
you should have
> both rear wheels spinning and one front spinning (no
front LSD.)
>
> jeff
> '95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
> '90
Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
>
>
> ----- Original Message
-----
> From: "Kevin Fanciulli" <nebula9@home.com>
>
To: "Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>; "Starnet
Mailing List"
> <stealth@starnet.net>
> Sent: Friday,
December 03, 1999 1:46 PM
> Subject: Rear wheel spins, front doesn't budge
-- AWD???
>
>
> > Hi everyone. I've got a quick
question regarding the AWD of the TT's...
> > Having trouble trying to
get up my driveway today in 3 inches of snow, I
> > opened my door and
noticed that the rear wheel was spinning yet
> the front
> >
didn't move! I'm not an expert w/ the AWD makeup but I thought it
would
> > always drive the front wheels... how could they NOT be
driven? It's all
> > connected together via hardware,
right? I can't think of any component
> > damage that would cause
this.
> >
> > I tried all different throttle positions...
turbos full boost and no
> boost,
> > clutch slip and no clutch
slip, etc... The front wheel would
> not move. I
> >
did hear a bit of a 'whining' (not very high pitched) sound coming from
>
the
> > engine when the rear wheels began to spin -- might be related
to my
> > problem...?
> >
> > If it matters at all, I
have a limited-slip rear differential (which is
> > probably the only
reason I was able to finally get into my garage). My
> > clutch
is also most likely going out, although it is not
> 'slipping' yet
--
> > just hard to engage.
> >
> > Any help would be
appreciated!
> > -kevin fanciulli
> > '92 Stealth
RT/TT
> > 3Si #0375
> >
>
>
>
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Dec 3 13:16:51 1999
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From: "Darcy
Gunnlaugson" <wce@telus.net>
To: "Kevin Fanciulli"
<nebula9@home.com>,
"Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>,
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Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Rear wheel spins,
CONFIRMED - fronts don't spin.
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 13:14:58
-0800
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Hi Kevin;
I think Matt has diagnosed the viscous
coupling as the likely culprit in
this case. Has it been towed in the
past?? This could be the reason for it
now being a problem. AWD have to
be trailered, never towed.
BEst
Darc
-----Original
Message-----
From: Kevin Fanciulli <nebula9@home.com>
To: Team3S
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>;
stealth@starnet.net
<stealth@starnet.net>
Date: Friday, December 03,
1999 12:57 PM
Subject: Team3S: RE: Rear wheel spins, CONFIRMED - fronts don't
spin.
>I just went out and confirmed with my brother that neither
of the front
>wheels move when the rear wheels are spinning... So I
guess this most
>likely means the worst :(.
>
><looking
over warranty papers to see if transmission is covered>
>-kevin
fanciulli
>'92 Stealth RT/TT
>3Si #0375
>
>>
-----Original Message-----
>> From: Jeff
[mailto:spydervr4@home.com]
>> Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 1:16
PM
>> To: stealth@starnet.net
>> Subject: Re: Rear wheel
spins, front doesn't budge -- AWD???
>>
>>
>> If that
is indeed true (verify by having someone else look at the
>> car,
while
>> you do it) then you have a toasted center
differential.
>> Unfortunately this
>> means you need a new
transmission. Before you jump to any
>> conclusions,
make
>> sure you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. Under normal conditions,
assuming all 4
>> wheels loose traction for more than about half a
second, you should have
>> both rear wheels spinning and one front
spinning (no front LSD.)
>>
>> jeff
>> '95 Mitsubishi
Spyder VR-4
>> '90 Mitsubishi Eclipse
GSX
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
From: "Kevin Fanciulli" <nebula9@home.com>
>> To:
"Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>; "Starnet Mailing
List"
>> <stealth@starnet.net>
>> Sent: Friday,
December 03, 1999 1:46 PM
>> Subject: Rear wheel spins, front doesn't
budge -- AWD???
>>
>>
>> > Hi everyone. I've
got a quick question regarding the AWD of the
TT's...
>> > Having
trouble trying to get up my driveway today in 3 inches of snow,
I
>>
> opened my door and noticed that the rear wheel was spinning yet
>>
the front
>> > didn't move! I'm not an expert w/ the AWD
makeup but I thought it
would
>> > always drive the front
wheels... how could they NOT be driven? It's
all
>> >
connected together via hardware, right? I can't think of any
component
>> > damage that would cause this.
>>
>
>> > I tried all different throttle positions... turbos full
boost and no
>> boost,
>> > clutch slip and no clutch slip,
etc... The front wheel would
>> not move. I
>>
> did hear a bit of a 'whining' (not very high pitched) sound coming
from
>> the
>> > engine when the rear wheels began to spin
-- might be related to my
>> > problem...?
>>
>
>> > If it matters at all, I have a limited-slip rear
differential (which is
>> > probably the only reason I was able to
finally get into my garage). My
>> > clutch is also most
likely going out, although it is not
>> 'slipping' yet --
>>
> just hard to engage.
>> >
>> > Any help would be
appreciated!
>> > -kevin fanciulli
>> > '92 Stealth
RT/TT
>> > 3Si #0375
>> >
>>
>
>>
>>
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Dec 3 13:25:08 1999
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From: "Kevin Fanciulli"
<nebula9@home.com>
To: "Team3S"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>, <stealth@starnet.net>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: RE: Rear wheel spins, CONFIRMED - fronts don't spin.
Date: Fri, 3
Dec 1999 14:29:35 -0700
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This is the
first I've noticed of a drive problem. I bought the car the 2nd
of July
this year from a dealership, so I have no prior knowledge of how the
car was
handled. It is in very nice shape and the 60k service was done
on-time,
but I guess that doesn't account for everything :). It just may
have
been towed.....
I'm scheduled next Thursday for transmission
service. The tranny is covered
under my AutoNation extended warranty,
so if all goes well it'll just be the
$50 deductible. I'll let everyone
know what the culprit is.
Thanks for your help,
-kevin
fanciulli
'92 Stealth RT/TT
3Si #0375
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Darcy Gunnlaugson [mailto:wce@telus.net]
>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 2:15 PM
> To: Kevin Fanciulli; Team3S;
stealth@starnet.net
> Subject: Re: Team3S: RE: Rear wheel spins, CONFIRMED
- fronts don't
> spin.
>
>
> Hi Kevin;
>
> I
think Matt has diagnosed the viscous coupling as the likely culprit
in
> this case. Has it been towed in the past?? This could be
the
> reason for it
> now being a problem. AWD have to be trailered,
never towed.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Dec 3 13:32:41 1999
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Date: Fri, 3 Dec
1999 16:32:05 EST
Subject: Team3S: 93 3000gt rear Bumper on a 93' ES?
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Hello,
Will this work?
thanks..
Jeff
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Dec 3 14:58:01 1999
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From: "Curt Gendron"
<curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Water Injection
(semi-long)
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Well, not
entirely true. The ECU sends signals to the BS in other
situations
other than just airflow. Read:
http://www.dsm.org/archives/1999/06/19990628.txt/30.html and the links on
that page, if you really want to learn the nuts and the bolts of our ECU to
BS situation.
later,
Curt
Sign up for the Upper Midwest
Gathering at:
http://www.mn3s.org/upper-midwest.html
>Almost true. But
we all know that boost is calculated from the airflow and
>therefore not
real. Now the ECU sees a specific boost then and starts to
>close the BS.
This is because the system simply wants to keep the boost at
>the stock
level. Therefore it is closed long before we really hit our
>desired
boost levels. Of course this changes when using a fuel controller
!
>
>Roger
>93'3000GT
TT
>
______________________________________________________
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Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From
owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Dec 3 15:07:26 1999
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CC: Stealth List
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Subject: Team3S: Suggestion and
question.
References:
<242EA98B2B7DD311985A0090277AED510F0DAF@CLEARCREEK.corp.netapp.com>
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Today I had my
ATR high flow cat put in, and it does make a difference.
My stock cat was a
bit clogged, but not too badly, and the new high flow
cat is noticeable. I
suggest that all 1st get car owners have their
converters checked for
possible meltdown of the matrix inside, and
possibly upgrade it to a high
flow unit.
Will the EGR give a "check engine" light if it's
disconnected? I don't
have any emissions to worry about, and i'm considering
disconnecting it
tomorrow, and would like to know if this will throw the ECU
off.
Thanks
Matt
3/Si #311
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Dec 3 15:32:29 1999
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From: Matt Jannusch
<MAJ@BigCharts.com>
To: Stealth List
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Suggestion and
question.
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 17:32:22 -0600
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> Today I had
my ATR high flow cat put in, and it does make a
> difference.
> My
stock cat was a bit clogged, but not too badly, and the
> new high
flow
> cat is noticeable. I suggest that all 1st get car owners have
their
> converters checked for possible meltdown of the matrix inside,
and
> possibly upgrade it to a high flow unit.
> Will the EGR give
a "check engine" light if it's disconnected? I don't
> have any
emissions to worry about, and i'm considering
> disconnecting it
>
tomorrow, and would like to know if this will throw the ECU off.
If the
rear cat is bad, the front ones are probably in similar or worse shape as
well...
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Dec 3 15:39:57 1999
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From: "R.G."
<robby@freesurf.ch>
To: "Stealth List"
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Suggestion and question
(EGR)
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 00:28:30 +0100
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> Will the EGR give a "check engine" light if it's
disconnected? I don't
> have any emissions to worry about, and i'm
considering disconnecting it
> tomorrow, and would like to know if this
will throw the ECU off.
A better way is to block EGR off at the O2 sensor
housing or at the intake
plenum. For this, simply use a thin stainless steel
that you can cut with
the shape of the gasket. On my 93' I had no problems
but I openend it again
for the very cold winter times (to heat up the
intake)
Roger
93'3000GT TT
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From
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From: "R.G."
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To:
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References:
<19991203225734.85443.qmail@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water
Injection (semi-long)
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 00:38:27 +0100
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bulk
Yes, Todd and the others are very right about the DSMs and it also
works
close to our cars. But our programs are slightly different and control
the
BS a little different. The BS is only used for a quicker spool up and
closes
above 3500 or so. Even without knock at 4500 the BS was already closed
and I
think this behaviour is different to the DSMs due to the twinturbo
setup
with the smaller wheels.
I'm currently altering one of the
programs I have for the G-Force ECU. The
activation of the BS is totally
disabled here and I just wish to know how to
give the knock signal to the BS
port. But even G-Force has no idea how to do
it ... but how did they knew how
to disable it ???
Roger
93'3000GT TT
> Well, not entirely
true. The ECU sends signals to the BS in other
> situations other
than just airflow. Read:
>
http://www.dsm.org/archives/1999/06/19990628.txt/30.html and the links
on
> that page, if you really want to learn the nuts and the bolts of our
ECU
to
> BS situation.
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page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Dec 3 16:25:32 1999
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Date: 3 Dec 99 16:25:27 PST
From: Gil
Lee <gil_lee@usa.net>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject:
Team3S: SRS light, rear hatch, 1st>2nd gear grinding
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I recently
swapped batteries outta my 92 3KGTVR4 and now the SRS light is on
and will
not go away. The factory manual states that if you turn the
ignition
on/off 10 times, it should clear it. That worked in the past,
but not this
time. Does anyone have any ideas?
Also thanks for
the earlier advice about the rattling noise from the back. I
think it's
the rear struts for the rear hatch, anyone know where I can
get
replacements?
And one more thing, pre93 3KGT seem to be notorious
for funny transmissions.
I had mine replaced once already because it would
not shift easily from 1st to
2nd. Now, the problem seems to be coming
back, in fact if you're in high RPM
in 1st gear and shift to 2nd, you will
often feel some resistance and hear
some grinding noises. You have to
let go and shift again at a lower speed to
engage. I just hope it's not
shredding the gears.
Anyone will similar
experiences?
____________________________________________________________________
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Dec 3 16:56:22 1999
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From: Luis
Interiano <Interian@oeaa.com>
To: joseph dorsey
<ja_dorsey@yahoo.com>
Cc: "Stealth-3000gt (E-mail)"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Bay Area
Stealth/3KGT
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:57:10 -0800
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Gentlemen, I
just got off the phone with my mechanic in Woodland, CA (I have
120,000 miles
on my NA 3KGT) and he quoted the following:
All belts (including Timing) and
Water pump $632.34, parts & labor
Crank and Cam Seals $88.00 (recommended
since you are already in there),
parts& labor
spark plugs $60.00 labor
only. -maybe these can be obtained from the club
sources.
Hope
this helps
Luis
-----Original Message-----
From: joseph dorsey
[mailto:ja_dorsey@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 11:43 AM
To:
3SI (E-mail)
Subject: Team3S: Bay Area
Stealth/3KGT
List,
First off, this list provides great info.
echange.
I just spent @ $1,100 in parts and labor
for
replacing:
Timing Belt/Water Pump, Drive Belts, and Spark Plugs.
Labor ran $600 (Mitsu Dealership.) Do any of you Bay
Area residents
know of any good, experienced,
independent "less expensive"
Dodge/Mitsu mechanics in
our area? Any referrals would be greatly
appreciated.
Thanks,
jdorsey '91 stealth r/t twin
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo!?
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From
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From:
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Subject: Team3S: VR4 Spyder wind
noise
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 19:11:02 -0600
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I have a 95VR4 Spyder that has tremendous amount of wind
noise relating =
to the roof
that is really noticable at speeds above
50mph. It appears to come from =
the mating point of the operable side window
and fixed rear quarter =
window!! Any
Ideas?
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HTML//EN">
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bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have a 95VR4 Spyder
that has tremendous amount of =
wind noise=20
relating to the
roof</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>that is really
noticable at speeds above 50mph. It =
appears to=20
come from the mating
point of the operable side window and fixed rear
=
quarter=20
window!! Any
Ideas?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Dec 3 17:17:53 1999
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Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 19:07:36 -0600
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From: Merritt
<merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: Yes, Eibachs
work
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There was a
question on the list recently, asking which springs are best
for an autocross
car.
I can vouch for the Ground Control adjustable suspension with
Eibach
coil-over springs.
As some of you may remember, back in
September I went with a bunch of ROWGs
(rich old white guys) to the
Marshalltown, Iowa go-kart track to run some
hot laps, and got soundly beaten
by a twin turbo AWD Porsche, driven by a
ROWG, and a 348 Ferrari, driven by
an ex pro racer. My time was 42.1 sec,
behind the Porsche at 41.8 and the
Ferrari at 41.7. It was a nice warm day,
with a dry track. I was running my
stock VR4 with Yoko 032R race tires.
The track is 0.7 miles with
10 turns, run in 2nd gear. A 42 second lap is a
55 mph average speed. Lots of
clubs use the track for autocrosses, so this
was a good test for the Eibachs
under autocrossing conditions.
Today, my son and I went back to the
speedway, all by ourselves. It was
cold and the track was damp, with some
puddles -- one in particular in a
braking zone. I ran the car exactly the
same as in September: race tires
and stock brakes, but with the Ground
Control kit and Eibachs installed.
Today, my best time was 41.53, so it looks
like the Eibachs are good for a
half-second a lap under less than wonderful
conditions. In an autocross, a
half-second is an eternity, and often
the difference between 1st and 10th.
We only had an hour or so before it
got dark, so I did not have a chance to
experiment with tire pressures. I
suspect there may be some more benefit to
be had through suitable
adjustments.
It also means a certain 348 Ferrari and a certain twin turbo
Porsche are
going to be very surprised next spring, when all the ROWGs go out
to play
again and a little black VR4 puts them all away.
Boost
controller next!
Rich/old poop/94 VR4/handles like a big go kart!.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Dec 3 17:36:24 1999
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Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 17:36:35
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From: Fred Hamilton <fred@yonkitime.com>
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To:
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Subject: Re: Team3S: VR4 Spyder wind
noise
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> Keith
Redburn wrote:
> I have a 95VR4 Spyder that has tremendous amount of wind
noise
> relating to the roof
> that is really noticable at speeds
above 50mph. It appears to come
> from the mating point of the operable
side window and fixed rear
> quarter window!! Any Ideas?
I've
got the same car with the same problem. From what I've heard it's
a
design flaw. When the roof is retracted, the rubber seals on
the
quarter windows are pressed up against something in the trunk and
they
eventually (pretty quickly, actually) get permanently bent until
they
don't seal very well and you get your wind noise.
A few months
ago, right before my 3 year warranty ran out (it's a 95 but
wasn't sold until
August 96 for some reason!), I had my dealer replace
both seals. The
car got a lot quieter, but still not as quiet as I
think it could and should
have been.
Has anyone found any solutions they're happy with? I
positively HATE my
dealer, and since it's out of warranty I don't want to pay
them to have
them do a crappy job. So I'm thinking about finding a
local automotive
glass shop that can work with me on making it seal better
and/or
replacing the seals.
-Fred
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From
owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Dec 3 20:58:38 1999
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From: "Curt Gendron"
<curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Water Injection
(not-so-long)
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 22:58:15 CST
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Hey
Roger,
I have a feeling our ECU to BCS signals are very similar to the 2G
DSM.
John's LED that is intercepting the ECU signal behaves EXACTLY
the same as
the 2G DSM LED. Same blinking light in roughly the same
RPM range and it
goes solid when the timing get retarded.
I'd trust
Todd Day and what I've personally seen over what G-force tells us.
I
wonder if G-force can even spell "3000GT." hehe.
:)
later,
Curt
http://www.mn3s.org
>From:
"R.G." <robby@freesurf.ch>
>To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
>Subject: Re: Team3S: Water
Injection (semi-long)
>Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 00:38:27
+0100
>
>Yes, Todd and the others are very right about the DSMs and
it also works
>close to our cars. But our programs are slightly different
and control the
>BS a little different. The BS is only used for a quicker
spool up and
>closes
>above 3500 or so. Even without knock at 4500
the BS was already closed and
>I
>think this behaviour is different
to the DSMs due to the twinturbo setup
>with the smaller
wheels.
>
>I'm currently altering one of the programs I have for the
G-Force ECU. The
>activation of the BS is totally disabled here and I just
wish to know how
>to
>give the knock signal to the BS port. But
even G-Force has no idea how to
>do
>it ... but how did they knew
how to disable it ???
>
>Roger
>93'3000GT TT
>
>
> Well, not entirely true. The ECU sends signals to the BS in
other
> > situations other than just airflow. Read:
> >
http://www.dsm.org/archives/1999/06/19990628.txt/30.html and the links
>on
> > that page, if you really want to learn the nuts and the
bolts of our ECU
>to
> > BS situation.
>
>For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Dec 3 22:53:45 1999
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From: "B
Collett" <hcollett@ihug.co.nz>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: VPC and GCC
Date:
Sat, 4 Dec 1999 19:56:11 +1300
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bulk
I have just scored, VERY CHEAP a VPC and GCC, I have seen alot
of people
using them on there cars and would like any information on the
setup and
using them.
Thanks
Henry 3000 GT
VR4
15'G's
550cc Injectors
HKS EVC 4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Dec 4 01:07:41 1999
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From: "Vineet Singh"
<billi_gates@hotmail.com>
To:
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Subject: Team3S: knock led
Mod
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 03:07:44 -0600
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bulk
I too would like to know how to hook up a "knock led" to a
91-93 car.
However you MUST keep in mind, that if this knock led is installed
and works
the same way as the DSM one does, it does NOT necessarily mean that
you have
"KNOCK".
You might have "0" knock sum
(the ECU doesn't really respond to "spikes" or
erratic minor knock
frequencies, there is a filter, and a program/circuit to
detect knock at
certain times of combustion. It does count knock as a "SUM"
created
by the programming). When this "SUM" hits over 12-15 counts (out
of
a possible 43), the ECU retards timing, and dumps fuel (bad
gas
mileage/slower car).
If the "knock" led is lighting up,
it could simply mean that you are flowing
more air than your ECU expects (not
necessarily "bad" for your engine if you
have the associated fuel
mods), and the precursor to the dreaded "fuel cut"
stage is
actually the factory Boost Control Solenoid (BCS) to pulse (led
flickers) or
shut completely (led stays on all the time). The BCS is there
to limit boost
to about 6-7psi (as if the turbo wastegates were directly
connected to the
pressure source)
The only real way to know is any one or better, a
combination of these
things,
1: Air Fuel (A/F) gauge (reads off your
o2 sensors)
2: Exhaust Gas Temp (EGT) gauge
3: TMO Datalogger
(www.tmo.com) (91-93 3/S only)
4: A Vulcan Mind Meld with the ECU (read above
:)
Vineet Singh
Manuals On CD - http://manualcd.dsm.org
Club DSM
A/T - http://at.dsm.org - "Never Lift To
Shift!"
Partial Original
message:-------------------------------------------------
Actually the first
knock LED that was in John's car did detect knock and not
ECU signals to the
boost solinoid. It was connected directly to the knock
sensor.
(Hence the reason for the knock sensor to eventually get fried)
But your
right. The LED that the DSM guys have been using will only tell
you
when timing retard and possible detonation is occuring. You don't
want
that LED to light up very often, unless you like rebuilds.
;)
later,
Curt
-------------------------------------------------
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Dec 4 05:42:07 1999
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Message-ID: <0.c076670f.257a740b@aol.com>
Date:
Sat, 4 Dec 1999 08:41:31 EST
Subject: Re: Team3S: SRS light, rear hatch,
1st>2nd gear grinding
To: gil_lee@usa.net,
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
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In a message
dated 12/3/99 7:27:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, gil_lee@usa.net
writes:
<< I recently swapped batteries outta my 92 3KGTVR4 and
now the SRS light is
on
and will not go away. The factory manual
states that if you turn the
ignition
on/off 10 times, it should clear
it. That worked in the past, but not this
time. Does anyone have
any ideas?
>>
I had this same problem when my
battery slowly discharged. If your
battery slowly discharged and
reached voltage below 8 volts (I think that's
the magic number) a
"permanent" fault code is set in the SRS Control Computer
which
requires resetting by the dealership. My dealer charged me $60 to turn
the darn thing off. I wrote to Chrysler and told them I didn't think I
should have to pay that because it is a "glitch" in their computer
design.
They agreed, said it was a safety issue, and refunded my money
without
question.
Joe 91 TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 12:18:19 -0500
To:
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From: Rick Diogo
<rick@ceo-consulting.com>
Subject: Team3S: 550cc
Injectors
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I am going to
install a set of denso 550cc injectors I just purchased.
They are brand new
in their packages. The only thing they did not come with
is the o-ring that
fits into the intake manifold....
Anyhow, I went down to Mitsu and bought
the 6 o-rings and am planning to
install the injectors today. My question is
this:
Do I need to send my ECU back to G-force to have it re-programmed
now that
I am installing the 550's? At the time I sent my ECU to them I
had the
stock pump and injectors.....
Also, how much is involved in
installing the Cosmo fuel pump. Is it a
direct replacement unit?
How do I go about pulling the old one out? On
the Talons I remember I
had to pull up the rear seat. Are the 3000's the
same way?
I
would like to get this stuff done today (Saturday) so if anyone is out
there
that can answer these questions I would greatly appreciate it!
Rick
94
Stealth TT (Pearl Yellow)
13G's
Cartech intercoolers
AMS hard pipe
kit
K&N FIPK
ATR downpipes
HKS exhaust, no cat, no front pre-cat,
rear pre-cat hollow
Greddy Profec B boost controller
Apexi AFC
SPI
boost gauge (yellow)
Cyberdyne AF gauge
G-Force ECU
upgrade
---------------------------------------------------
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Dec 4 09:41:57 1999
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Reply-To: <beking@home.com>
From:
"Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: 550cc
Injectors
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 10:44:02 -0700
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The ECU will
have to be reprogrammed especially if you do not have some
other means of
fuel control. 550s with the stock program will run very rich
and in
some cases too rich to be drivable. The AFC should be enough to get
it
running and may even be enough to get decent performance. I
would
probably opt for the a new program though and use the AFC for
tweaking. I
have an AFC in addition to the MASC. It was enough to
keep the car running
reasonably well but not enough to squeeze out optimal
performance.
The Cosmo pump is a direct drop in replacement. You
won't have to remove
the rear seat but you will have to be careful with the
main fuel line. It
is a rather silly design.
Almost everything
is accessible by removing the trunk deck. You'll have to
detach the
hose from beneath the car first, then remove the line from the
fuel pump
accessible in the rear hatch area. You may have to jack the car
up to
gain enough access to the line beneath the car. It is in the
rear
passenger-side wheel well area. Be careful with the fittings as
they are
likely seized and the metal is rather
soft.
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
>
> I
am going to install a set of denso 550cc injectors I just purchased.
>
They are brand new in their packages. The only thing they did not
> come
with
> is the o-ring that fits into the intake
manifold....
>
> Anyhow, I went down to Mitsu and bought the 6
o-rings and am planning to
> install the injectors today. My question is
this:
>
> Do I need to send my ECU back to G-force to have it
re-programmed now that
> I am installing the 550's? At the time I
sent my ECU to them I had the
> stock pump and
injectors.....
>
> Also, how much is involved in installing the
Cosmo fuel pump. Is it a
> direct replacement unit? How do I
go about pulling the old one out? On
> the Talons I remember I had
to pull up the rear seat. Are the 3000's the
> same
way?
>
> I would like to get this stuff done today (Saturday) so if
anyone is out
> there that can answer these questions I would greatly
appreciate it!
>
> Rick
> 94 Stealth TT (Pearl Yellow)
>
13G's
> Cartech intercoolers
> AMS hard pipe kit
> K&N
FIPK
> ATR downpipes
> HKS exhaust, no cat, no front pre-cat, rear
pre-cat hollow
> Greddy Profec B boost controller
> Apexi
AFC
> SPI boost gauge (yellow)
> Cyberdyne AF gauge
> G-Force
ECU upgrade
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Dec 4 10:44:24 1999
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Date: Sat, 04 Dec
1999 13:42:22 -0500
From: Michael Booker <mrbook@gate.net>
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To:
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CC: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: EGR
on a NA engine.
References:
<199912041727.MAA09323@mail.ceo-web.com>
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Has anybody with
an NA DOHC disconnected the EGR? I'm looking in the
manual and under the
hood, but I can't find the part. Also, there is a
small, black hose that is
connected right before the TB and also
somewhere under the plenum. Is that
it? If not, does anybody know what
that is? Thanks
Matt
Hell-bent
on disconnecting the EGR!
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Dec 4 10:46:06 1999
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Message-ID: <0.261a0444.257abb4e@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec
1999 13:45:34 EST
Subject: Team3S: Off Topic: Indra's new shop and #
(Please Update your Address Book)
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Hello fellow 3Si
members,
I know I've been out of the loop lately
due to personal circumstances;
but I thought I should post this update for
us all re: one of our vendors
that I originally introduced to our community,
Indra Mahesa - formerly at
Apex R Motorsport. Indra is NO LONGER at
Apex R Motorsport due to an
issue/conflict among the owners; I believe that
the shop is bad mouthing
Indra and trying to give him a bad/shady name; So
if any of you need to
contact Indra directly re: any future orders or
clarification of issues;
please feel free to call him at his new phone #
:
602-690-3767
MAX REV motorsport; ask for Indra.
Remember:
PLEASE DO NOT order from Apex R Motorsport or from
their website
(ApexVR4.com); In my opinion, I believe Indra should
delete that website
since he worked so hard to design it and get it started
in the first place.
He dedicated 1 1/2 years to Apex R
Motorsport and they decided to SHAFT him;
So let's not even bother calling
them because all they'll try to do is make
Indra look bad. Totally uncalled
for!!! So I would appreciate for all of us
to continue to support
Indra and his services at Max Rev Motorsport. For
those of you who
have ordered from Indra before; you KNOW he will continue to
provide us with
the best prices and tech support/advice!
I hope this
message has clarified any concerns/rumors/issues re: Indra's
status.
No,
I do not work for Indra!! I'm just a satisfied customer willing to share
with all of us 3Si members!!!
Regards,
Ahmed
"AL-Crazy" -
'92 VR4 - Still
NO BOOST!!!! :-( But not for long!!!! I will
update
you all soon.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sat
Dec 4 13:34:28 1999
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From:
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To:
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References:
<199912041727.MAA09323@mail.ceo-web.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 550cc
Injectors
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:33:44 +0100
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> Do I need to send my ECU back to G-force to have it
re-programmed now that
> I am installing the 550's? At the time I
sent my ECU to them I had the
> stock pump and injectors.....
Barry
said it all and this are onyl my $0.02 addons :
The ECU program for a stock
setup from G-Force are often a little leaner in
the lower and richer in the
higher load band. Also they do lock in only one
fuel map. In your case you
can adapt for the rpm with the AFC and it may
work. The negative thing is
that it is rpm related and load is different in
the gears and also differs if
you go up a hill or just driving on a normal
road.
Normally you may
have to tell G-Force what mods you have (the pump doesn't
change anything for
the program), they send you a new set of EPROMs and rip
you off $150 (this is
just crazy for altering a table)
In my case, I use the G-Force for the
higher limiter and changed timing and
let the ARC fuel controller do the job
for the fuel side. I also used the
AFC for a little fine tuning but found it
obsolute with the ARC.
> Also, how much is involved in installing the
Cosmo fuel pump.
On my car the problem was that everything was seized and
rusty. nothing
moved and the fuel line comming out of the assembly is very
sensible and can
easily be bent (very bad !) I firstly tried and got into the
danger of
braking something so I finally let my dealer doing the job and they
only
charged my about $70 for doing it. No headaches for me, please
!
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Sat Dec 4 14:44:31 1999
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From:
"Oleg-Telia" <Oleg@telia.lv>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: question about
AFC
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 00:48:49 +0200
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Just installed new AFC fuel controller (with new display). The thing
I am
wondering about, is that parameter "airflow" is not changing,
it is always
shown as 0%. All other parameters are OK. Is it normal or
something is
wrong?
I installed the fuel controller for fuel system future
upgrades, now I don't
use it - just want to be sure that it is installed
properly.
Olegs,
www.3000gt.lv
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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To:
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Cc: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999
19:27:49 -0800
Subject: Re: Team3S: Off Topic: Indra's new shop and #
(Please Update your Address Book)
Message-ID:
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From: Nick Xiong
<nxiong@juno.com>
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I've been out of
the loop even longer... why shouldn't we order from
Apex? cause
I've had excellent dealings w/Apex..
On Sat, 4 Dec 1999 13:45:34 EST
TurboDrvn@aol.com writes:
> Hello fellow 3Si members,
>
> I know I've been out of the loop lately
due to personal
> circumstances; > but I thought I should post this
update for us all re:
one of our
> vendors > that I originally
introduced to our community, Indra Mahesa -
> formerly at > Apex R
Motorsport. Indra is NO LONGER at Apex R
Motorsport due to
> an
> issue/conflict among the owners; I believe that the shop is bad
>
mouthing > Indra and trying to give him a bad/shady name; So if any of
you
need
> to > contact Indra directly re: any future orders or
clarification of
> issues; > please feel free to call him at his new
phone # :
>
> 602-690-3767
> MAX REV motorsport; ask for
Indra.
>
> Remember:
> PLEASE DO NOT order from Apex
R Motorsport or from their website
> (ApexVR4.com); In my opinion,
I believe Indra should delete that
> website
___________________________________________________________________
Why
pay more to get Web access?
Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month
if you act NOW!
Get your free software today:
http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Dec 5 00:20:58 1999
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From: "B
Collett" <hcollett@ihug.co.nz>
To: "team3s"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: VPC Wiring
help
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 21:23:21 +1300
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I thought about it and I already have the wiring loom for the fcon
and Gcc
so I need to know exactly where I wire the VPC into the ECU.
If
anyone has the VPC, it would be great if I could get a picture of the
wiring
setup.
Thanks
Henry
-----Original Message-----
From:
Aso8@aol.com <Aso8@aol.com>
To: hcollett@ihug.co.nz
<hcollett@ihug.co.nz>
Cc: Aso8@aol.com <Aso8@aol.com>
Date:
Sunday, 5 December 1999 04:25
Subject: Re: Team3S: VPC and
GCC
>First, make sure the VPC has the right chip for the 550cc
injectors. Then
you
>should make a plan of what you intend to do. Are
you going to put in the
>Super mega flow intakes?
>What about a fuel
pump upgrade and or an ECU upgrade. Where do you want to
>get to? If
you're going to have to change the VPC chip (available from
HKS
or
>G-Force may have some) then it can be ordered for your exact
mods and
>intended use.
>Arty 91 VR-4
>
>In a message
dated 12/04/1999 1:56:54 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>hcollett@ihug.co.nz
writes:
>
><< Subj: Team3S: VPC and
GCC
> Date: 12/04/1999 1:56:54 AM Eastern Standard Time
>
From: hcollett@ihug.co.nz (B Collett)
> Sender:
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
>
> I have just scored, VERY
CHEAP a VPC and GCC, I have seen alot of people
> using them on there cars
and would like any information on the setup and
> using
them.
>
> Thanks
>
> Henry 3000 GT VR4
>
15'G's
> 550cc Injectors
> HKS EVC 4
>
>>
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun
Dec 5 01:33:38 1999
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To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: infinity stereo / which
changers?
Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 02:33:33 -0700
From: Dave Monarchi
<monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
Sender:
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I know I ask
a lot of mundane questions, but bear with me.. it's
fairly
short..
can anyone verify absolutely which pioneer model changers work
with our
double-din infinity systems? I know CDX-M30 has been
mentioned, but I
have seen a CDX-M40, CDX-M50, and CDX-M100.. will any
"M" series
(meaning the M bus I assume) work?
maybe this
would be interesting for the FAQ? (I went through the
archives, so I
hope I didn't just miss the info..)
please reply privately, and I'll be
happy to provide any responses for
the FAQ if people are
interested..
thanks!
Dave
95 Black 3000GT VR4
87 Mica
Red GTI G60
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun
Dec 5 02:36:54 1999
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From: "R.G."
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To:
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References:
<19991204.192750.-196819.0.nxiong@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Off
Topic: Indra's new shop and # (Please Update your Address Book)
Date:
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ADMIN WARNING :
This is/was correctly declarated as OFF TOPIC
and was an informal post. This
was ok, but we do not want to discuss such
stuff on the list and therefore
DO NOT SEND A REPLY to the whole list for
this topic. If you have a question
or something to add please do this
privately to the poster.
Thanks,
Roger for the admins
For
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun
Dec 5 09:09:58 1999
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Date: Sun,
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From: Michael Booker
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Subject: Team3S: Off topic, Fl
Gathering...advanced notice
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Hello everybody.
Mark your calenders for the beginning of March, 2000 2
weeks before the 12
hours of Sebring. There will be a 3/S gathering at
the track, and all are
invited to come! HSR (Historic sportscar Racing)
will have a tour stop there,
and this will be a great opportunity to
check out old race cars up close and
personal. Last year, I saw Geoff
Brabham's Nissan GTP car, old NASCARS, and
some truly Vintage stuff like
Mini-Coopers. The car owners are very
accomodating, and will let you get
right up and look at, take pictures of,
and drool over the cars. Maybe
we can learn something. The Nissan GTP car
runs 3 bars of boost when
qualifying, and 2.5 when racing. How? This would be
a great chande to
learn and see these older cars in action. We can also (for
a few bucks
extra) take a lap on the track, and a whole group of S/3 cars in
a line
would be a sight to behold! Any questions, please email me Privately!
I would love to see you guys there!
Matt
#311
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun
Dec 5 09:28:40 1999
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Date:
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Off Topic: Indra's
new shop and # (Please Update your
Address Bo...
To:
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In a message
dated 12/4/99 6:24:22 PM Central Standard Time, nxiong@juno.com
writes:
<< I've been out of the loop even longer... why
shouldn't we order from
Apex? cause I've had excellent dealings
w/Apex..
>>
The reason you had excellent dealings
with Apex in the past is due to the
fact that Indra was the one who helped
us all out; He is NO LONGER at Apex R
motorsport......he is at an new shop
called MAX REV. 602-690-3767.
Nick......I know you have a Supra TT
as well.......I just want you to know
that all my Supra TT friends are on
the same page as I am......they are in
favor of supporting Indra and will
continue to do so.
Regards,
Ahmed.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Sun Dec 5 09:30:56 1999
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Off Topic: Indra's
new shop and # (Please Update your
Address Bo...
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My apologies
everyone......that last message should have been a private one;
I didn't
mean to use up our Tech list band width........any other future
questions
from other members should come privately to me.....
Ahmed.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun
Dec 5 13:37:15 1999
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From: "R.G."
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Organization:
Behind the frontier
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To: Team3S List
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Knock question (from
TMO list)
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Interesting
information on knock (recorded sound, etc.)
Roger
93'3000GT
TT
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I was slow responding to
this thread because I wanted to get
a WEB site set up with some of the data
that I have collected
over the last few months on this subject.
I have some interesting sounds recorded from the knock sensor and
some spectrum analyzer output that some of you might find
interesting. I also have some info. on how to connect to the
knock
sensor without loading it down. Check it
out:
http://home.netcom.com/~bsundahl/knock/sound/KnockSounds.htm
Don't
spend too much time trying to find an oscilloscope, you
won't see
much. It's a lot like looking at any other complex
sounds on a scope:
there is a lot of signal there, but nothing
distinctive. An audio
amplifier is a lot more useful. It is
interesting just what you can
hear on the knock sensor. I just
realized last week that I can hear the fuel
shut off when coasting!
What I can NOT hear is knock. At least not
that corresponds
reliably with the data logger.
My original goal was
to build some sort of knock meter, or even
a better knock filter for the
ECU, but now I am not so sure I
can do it.
A question for Todd: is
there a simple input for knock on the
microcontroller (after the filter),
which could be tapped and
brought out to some sort of gage or external
logger? I would be
very interested in seeing exactly what comes out of
this filter.
This is the first time that I have tried to use my WEB
space, so
let me know if something does not work right. (Do all
browsers
support .PNG format these days?)
I expect this to create a
lot more questions than it answers,
but at least it gives you some idea what
you are getting in
to.
-Bill
--------------659EC29C212DE3154CDA3CE0--
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun
Dec 5 16:07:00 1999
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From: "Benson
\"elmagoo\" Russell" <benson@2015.com>
To: "3000GT
Mailing" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S:
infinity stereo / which changers?
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 18:05:49
-0600
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bulk
OK, this would be some good info because I went to several high-end
AV
stores, and talked with Mitsubishi about this. I have a '95 base
model with
the infinity 6 speaker system. It has the 200 watt power
amp, and the 6
disc changer. The head unit from that year only had a
cassette in the dash.
The newer models actually have a single CD, and
cassette. My goal is that I
wanted to just put a newer model head unit
in there because I want the
changer, and a single-CD in dash. Well
Mitsu. said that the new head units
by themselves (as in not sold with a car)
are $2000. Basically they really
try to discourage selling head units
indiviually :). So I go to several
high-end AV shops in town to see
about just getting a head unit to work with
everything else. They said
no after-market head unit will work with the 6
disc changer (even though it
is a Pioneer) because the OEM ones for the
dealers use specialized
connections for their head units. They also said
that even if I got a
new head unit and disc changer, they couldn't use the
power amp because of
the same reason. So basically it would cost me $1500
to get a new head
unit, changer, and equivalent power amp. So the only
thing I could keep
would be the speakers.
I personally think this is ludicrous, and there's
got to be a way to connect
a newer head unit to that disc changer and power
amp, but I don't know where
to go for this? Any suggestions from
anybody who's had to deal with this
before?
Latuh fuh
U,
Benson
benson@2015.com
"-Do you ever have second
thoughts?
-When do I ever have first thoughts?"
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Sun
Dec 5 21:05:57 1999
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From:
"Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
To:
"'R.G.'" <robby@freesurf.ch>, Team3S
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Water Injection /
temperatures
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 17:19:06 -0800
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:> anyone
tried water wetter from Redline to help reduce engine temps?
:
:Water
wetter is a coolant (addon ?) and will keep the engine
:running cooler. But
on our cars, this is not a problem and
:therefore may not help a lot if
any.
---
WW doesnt exactly help an overheat issue, as it does heat
localization in the
cooling jackets.
WW prevents cavitation in the
cooling jakcets, which causes localized hot spots
on the cylinder walls.
It basically acts as a wetting agent for heat transfer. Because
water with
antifreeze is far from a perfect heat-transfer liquid, the metal
CAN create a
bubble of steam on the jacket wall itself. This is
difficult to cool quickly
and make go away, and at the same time raises the
temps in that spot of the
cylinder wall greatly.
A second way to help
prevent this, is a higher pressure radiator cap.
Cavitation is a result of
pressure/temperature math, at a certain point water
will vaporize.
The
perfect combination for coolant, is 100% distilled water. But being
that
some of us expereince SOME freezing, a bi-yearly flush using A/F in the
winter
months, and a pure water with a few bottles of WW in the summer is
optimal.
SWW includes agents to prevent corrosion from uses with
different metals in the
system, a lubrication agent for your water pump shaft
and seals, and looks like
kool-aid too!
Ive been on this procedure for
about 4 years on my Supra, and Im consistently
about 20Hp and 30Lbs of torque
above where I "should" be on the MOD levels Im
at.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Dec 6 01:14:06 1999
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From:
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To: "3000GT Mailing"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
References:
<004a01bf3f7d$a75b3ea0$10c9c9c9@benson>
Subject: Re: Team3S: infinity
stereo / which changers?
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 11:18:26
+0200
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bulk
The new Kenwood DPX-510 is the best for 3kgt, it have a single CD,
and
cassette. But it doesn't work with stock changer and amp.
Also, you
must to replace all infinity speakers, because you couldn't use
the new ampl
with old speakers sistem (not "speakers", but really
"speakers
sistem").
Oleg, 3si
#0441,
www.3000gt.lv
> OK, this would be some good info because I
went to several high-end AV
> stores, and talked with Mitsubishi about
this. I have a '95 base model
with
> the infinity 6 speaker
system. It has the 200 watt power amp, and the 6
> disc
changer. The head unit from that year only had a cassette in
the
dash.
> The newer models actually have a single CD, and
cassette. My goal is that
I
> wanted to just put a newer model
head unit in there because I want the
> changer, and a single-CD in
dash. Well Mitsu. said that the new head
units
> by themselves
(as in not sold with a car) are $2000. Basically they
really
>
try to discourage selling head units indiviually :). So I go to
several
> high-end AV shops in town to see about just getting a head unit
to work
with
> everything else. They said no after-market head
unit will work with the 6
> disc changer (even though it is a Pioneer)
because the OEM ones for the
> dealers use specialized connections for
their head units. They also said
> that even if I got a new head
unit and disc changer, they couldn't use the
> power amp because of the
same reason. So basically it would cost me $1500
> to get a new head
unit, changer, and equivalent power amp. So the only
> thing I could
keep would be the speakers.
>
> I personally think this is
ludicrous, and there's got to be a way to
connect
> a newer head unit
to that disc changer and power amp, but I don't know
where
> to go for
this? Any suggestions from anybody who's had to deal with this
>
before?
>
>
> Latuh fuh U,
> Benson
>
benson@2015.com
>
> "-Do you ever have second thoughts?
>
-When do I ever have first thoughts?"
>
> For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Dec 6 09:20:57 1999
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Message-ID: <384BF075.94ACB4E@summitmicro.com>
Date: Mon, 06
Dec 1999 09:20:53 -0800
From: "Dr. John A. Tabler"
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To: 3000GT
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: 3000GT + bike rack =
ugly?
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Hi All,
Does
anyone have a suggestion about a bike rack that will not ruin the
appearance
of my car?
I am considering an Evolution 9000, which uses a 1-1/4 hitch as
the
point of support.
If you have installed a small hitch like this on a
3000GT, I would be
interested to know if you feel it looks
O.K.
Thanks,
JAT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Dec 6 09:37:12 1999
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Date: Mon, 6 Dec
1999 12:36:46 EST
Subject: Team3S: Dependable car?
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1st post.
91black RTT/T. 47000 miles. Ive been reading the posts for a couple
of weeks
and enjoyed gleaning what info i can understand (which is very
little-not
too mechanically inclined).
I just basically have one question? How
dependable are these cars?
I don't race and about the only time I use the
turbo is when passing on the
highway.
The car is in excellent
condition. I only paid $9400 for it. I understand
it has a
K&R filter, new exhaust system, and an aquarium bleeder valve
that
increases the boost 3lbs. ya'll are probably saying, "what's
a guy like you
doing with a car like this, if you don't want to
race?" The answer is
simple. I just love the car. The
way it looks, rides and all that power
available, --just in case. Back
to my question- If driven like a normal car
can I count on comparable
dependabliity, longivity to say my camry with just
routine maintainence or
is this just hopeful thinking?
Hopeful in OKC
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Dec 6 09:43:19 1999
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From: Matt Jannusch
<MAJ@BigCharts.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Dependable car?
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 11:43:10 -0600
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> Back to my
question- If driven like a normal car
> can I count on comparable
dependabliity, longivity to say my
> camry with just routine maintainence
or is this just hopeful
> thinking? Hopeful in OKC
Overall,
these cars are pretty reliable. The motors rarely have problems, but the
trannies are somewhat weak. If you don't drive it very hard it should be
reliable for you. Some of us that try to wring a bunch more performance
and drive aggressively tend to go through parts more often.
As with any
other car, you'll hear about the bad things much more than the good things just
due to human nature (wanting to complain when things are
bad).
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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From: Matt Wise <diranged@hearme.com>
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To: Bbbrucb@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Dependable
car?
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They are
extremely dependable if you treat them right. I've had 3
mitsubishis and they
have all (except for the Eclipse since I sold it cuz
it was an automatic) hit
over 180,000 miles. The only thing you need to
worry about is the
transmission.. Treat it VERY VERY gently.. Other than
that, you could
increase the boost to 15psi, and drive it WOT all the time
and it would
probably not have problems till 150,000 miles or so. Just
make sure you do
your oil changes, clean the engine regularly, wash/wax
the car (so it still
looks good) every other week (thats what I do.. a
wash each week, wax every
other week..) and do the 60k and 120k
maintenance! :)
--Matt
Wise
*NOC Admin*
(650) 429 3751
On Mon, 6 Dec 1999 Bbbrucb@aol.com
wrote:
> 1st post. 91black RTT/T. 47000 miles. Ive been reading the
posts for a couple
> of weeks and enjoyed gleaning what info i can
understand (which is very
> little-not too mechanically inclined).
> I just basically have one question? How dependable are these
cars?
> I don't race and about the only time I use the turbo is when
passing on the
> highway.
> The car is in excellent
condition. I only paid $9400 for it. I understand
> it has a
K&R filter, new exhaust system, and an aquarium bleeder valve
that
> increases the boost 3lbs. ya'll are probably saying,
"what's a guy like you
> doing with a car like this, if you don't
want to race?" The answer is
> simple. I just love the
car. The way it looks, rides and all that power
> available, --just
in case. Back to my question- If driven like a normal car
> can I
count on comparable dependabliity, longivity to say my camry with just
>
routine maintainence or is this just hopeful thinking?
> Hopeful in
OKC
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date: Mon,
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From: "J. Stephen Gula"
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To: Team3S
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Dependable
car?
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I've got a 95
3000GT base model w/ just over 50,000 miles on it. The only thing on the
car
that has ever gone bad is hte air conditioning belt. All other parts that have
been
replaced were wear'n'tear things that I wore'n'tore (brakes, clutch,
more brakes,
tires, some more brakes). Nothing else has ever been replaced
because it failed. And
the air conditioning belt hadn't even failed yet, i
had it replaced cause it started
squeaking. I've been very impressed with the
reliability of this car (and it's ability
to pass that Camaro Z28 that
thought it was just soo fast and then .. whoops.. bend in
the road.. and Mr
Straight-Line-Racer couldn't handle it... but then hte road
straightened and
he passed me again.. :( ). If I was to buy another car today,
it'd
be a newer 3000GT w/ twin turbos *grin*.
--Steve
"Loco3KGT" Gula
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Dec 6 10:01:49 1999
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From:
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Subject: Team3S: Atomic..
Date:
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Does anyone have
the URL for Atomic Motorsports (Jacks shop) at all?
Thanks
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Dec 6 10:08:02 1999
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From:
"Mohler,Anissa" <Anissa.Mohler@netapp.com>
To:
"'Bbbrucb@aol.com'" <Bbbrucb@aol.com>,
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Dependable car?
Date:
Mon, 6 Dec 1999 10:11:06 -0800
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If you have no
interest in racing I would remove the bleeder valve. K&N filter
and
aftermarket exhaust will give you plenty of power without risking
boost
spikes. Make sure you do the 60,000 mile maintenance. It costs quite a
bit but
its worth it. Depending on how the previous owner drove the car do
not be
suprised if the tranny fails on you eventually. Hopefully you got an
extended
warrantee on the car, if you don't you will probably want to get
one. It cost me
$1500 for a 92 RT/TT and it saved me many thousands of
dollars on a tranny
replacement alone. Aside from the tranny and expensive
(and necessary if you
want to keep the car dependable) maintenance you have a
wonderful and dependable
vehicle.
You will love the AWD this winter in
OK! Watch the SUV's slip and slide while
you are able to travel in the ice
storms :)
Enjoy!
Nissa
95VR4
|I understand it has a
K&R filter, new exhaust system, and an aquarium
|bleeder
valve that increases the boost 3lbs. ya'll are probably
saying,
"what's
|a guy like you doing with a car like this, if you
don't want to race?" The
answer is
|simple. I just love
the car. The way it looks, rides and all
|that power available, --just
in case. Back to my question- If driven
|like a normal car can I count
on comparable dependabliity, longivity to say my
|camry with just routine
maintainence or is this just hopeful thinking?
|Hopeful in OKC
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Dec 6 11:10:51 1999
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From: "Bob
Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
To: <Bbbrucb@aol.com>,
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Dependable
car?
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 11:08:37 -0800
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-----Original Message-----From: Bbbrucb@aol.com
>1st post.
91black RTT/T. 47000 miles. Ive been reading the posts
for a couple
>of
weeks and enjoyed gleaning what info i can understand (which
is
very
>little-not too mechanically inclined).
>I just basically
have one question? How dependable are these cars?
>I don't race and
about the only time I use the turbo is when
passing on
the
>highway.
Although many of the more "visible"
members of Team3S regularly post
about performance and racing issues, most of
us do NOT race. We
have 545 member owners, and I would be surprised if
even 20% have
ever raced. Most of us are content to have a car that
performs when
we 'ask' it to, and has tons of reserve power for passing and
the
occasional stoplight contest. From what I can gather, these
cars
are VERY reliable if we don't "test the envelope" and try to
push
them past their more-than-adequate design. And I'm not
suggesting
"babying" your car - on the contrary - letting your car
"peek at the
red line" on a regular basis is GOOD for your car,
IMO. As has been
already mentioned, be religious about maintenance and
oil changes,
and make sure that 60k service is done before, rather than after
the
event.
>The car is in excellent condition. I only paid
$9400 for it. I
understand
>it has a K&N filter, new
exhaust system, and an aquarium bleeder
valve that
>increases the
boost 3lbs. ya'll are probably saying, "what's a guy
like
you
>doing with a car like this, if you don't want to race?"
The answer
is
>simple. I just love the car. The way it
looks, rides and all that
power
>available, --just in case. Back
to my question- If driven like a
normal car
>can I count on comparable
dependabliity, longivity to say my camry
with just
>routine
maintainence or is this just hopeful thinking?
>Hopeful in
OKC
As above, 90% of us ARE "a guy like you"-- even the
ladies on the
list (I think only 2 or 3 of the women race). But if you
do drive
it like a "normal" car, you probably have a better
likelihood of
developing problems than if you "open it up"
occasionally! Keep
that engine clean by making it work once in a
while. A car designed
for performance should be "allowed" to
perform... They don't break
if used 'within' their design
capabilities. One of our (racing)
members submitted a 'tongue-in-cheek'
Question/Answer to me for our
upcoming FAQ pages, and it might give you an
idea of why some of the
posts may make it appear as if these cars are not
reliable:
Q:>>> "Why does my TT/VR4 transmission/transfer
case keep blowing
up?"
A:>>> "Because you don't know
how to launch, and/or shift and/or are
trying to put well over twice the
rated HP through it."
The above may explain why you got that
impression. :-)
And BTW... What's a Camry?
:-)
Best,
Forrest
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Dec 6 11:31:58 1999
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Message-ID: <384C0F28.1A8D7B0E@gat.com>
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999
11:31:52 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh
<Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Organization: General Atomics - Fusion
Group
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To: Team3S
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: lateral
G's
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I went to the race track in Holtville CA this past Saturday to an
SCCA High
Performance Car Clinic held by the local chapter. Had a
blast.
Here is an interesting measurement that I obtained with my G-Tech
Pro. In my
'91 VR4 with Eibach ProKit springs and Firestone Firehawks
SZ50 275/40/17 on
stock rims, I measured a lateral G force of .97 in
instantaneous mode. I
mounted the G-Tech as square as possible on the
AC display. This is a fairly
slow track with top speeds of 110-115 mph
(in my VR4) and turns in the 40-90 mph
range. I was curious as to what
other folks have measured.
--
I'm surprised you stopped me officer,
Dunkin Donuts has a 3 for 1 special!
Ken Middaugh (858)
455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
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From
owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Dec 6 11:46:28 1999
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Date: Mon,
06 Dec 1999 14:43:34 -0500
From: "J. Stephen Gula"
<loco3kgt@creepingdeath.com>
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To: Team3S
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: lateral
G's
References: <384C0F28.1A8D7B0E@gat.com>
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> stock rims,
I measured a lateral G force of .97 in instantaneous mode. I
>
mounted the G-Tech as square as possible on the AC display. I was curious as to
what
> other folks have measured.
Quite impressive. The VR-4 stock
is supposed to be able to handle .94 lateral G's and
I'm sure it wouldn't be
remotely difficult for a VR-4 w/ a more than just springs to
hold a full G
(if a Viper can do it, a VR-4 can). Congrats on your time at the
track.
--Steve "Loco3KGT" Gula
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Dec 6 11:55:55 1999
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From: "Michael
Chan" <michael.chan@hcl.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: O2 Sensor
Question
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:56:15 -0500
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What's the life expectancy of an O2 (Oxygen) Sensor? I
have a mechanic
telling me that a possible reason for poor gas mileage could
be a worn out
sensor. He says that they usually 'last' about 100,000km
depending on your
driving habits.
If so, how many O2 sensors does a
Twin Turbo Stealth have and where
are
they?
Thanks,
Mike
91TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Dec 6 12:09:32 1999
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From:
"Basol, John" <jbasol@Carlson.com>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: O2 Sensor
Question
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:09:05 -0600
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I would guess
that the actual life expectancy is little more than that, but
it is possible
for them to go bad by 100K km. If they do, it can cause poor
gas
mileage (most often they do). On a '91 there are two O2 sensors.
One
in each exhaust manifold.
John Basol
'95
RT/TT
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Chan
[SMTP:michael.chan@hcl.com]
Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 1:56 PM
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: O2 Sensor
Question
What's the life expectancy of an O2 (Oxygen) Sensor? I
have a
mechanic
telling me that a possible reason for poor gas mileage
could be a
worn out
sensor. He says that they usually 'last' about
100,000km depending
on your
driving habits.
If so, how many O2
sensors does a Twin Turbo Stealth have and
where
are
they?
Thanks,
Mike
91TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Dec 6 14:13:46 1999
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1999 17:13:15 EST
Subject: Team3S: Thanks for answers
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Just read the
responses to my "dependabity" question and deeply appreciate
all
the straightforward info. Feel like it's ok to drive the car now,
anyway-whew.
Going to:
1. Remove the bleeder valve ( 300+hp should be
enough to get around, since i
don't race), not presently anyway.
2. Save about 100 a mo. for 60000 service. (next nov-dec). TB,
Plugs, ect.
3. Synthetic fluids, cool down the turbos.
4. Think
about purchasing an extended warranty for the transmissions sake if
I get
enough out of my camry.
Again, thanks for all the responses-
In the
future, i'll try to posts questions that interest the majority of
members.
However
the support meant alot.
Bruce in OKC
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Dec 6 14:38:59 1999
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If your car does
not have a turbo timer already installed, I would suggest
that you put one
in. It makes using the car a lot easier. You do not have to
spend an extra
minute or three in the car letting it cool down. Otherwise
you run the
chance of damaging the bearings in the turbos.
Bob
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Dec 6 14:41:54 1999
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From: "Jim
Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
To: "Ken Middaugh"
<Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>,
"Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
References:
<384C0F28.1A8D7B0E@gat.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: lateral G's
Date:
Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:38:25 -0800
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bulk
Ken
FWIW instantaneous G readings can be significantly
higher than
steady state readings. Skid pad readings are held for quire a
few
seconds. A Champ car [ new name for Indy car's ] can pull 6 G's
for
short periods but sustained numbers are more likely to be in the
range of 4
to 41/2 G's [ high downforce wing configuration ].
The G-tech has a mode for
measuring corning forces --- I think it
has to be sustained for several
seconds.
The mode I use for checking performance improvement after an
engine
mod is the peak hold, instantaneous acceleration mode. In first
gear
peak acceleration is about .78 G's.
Jim
Berry
> I went to the race track in Holtville CA this past
Saturday to an SCCA High
> Performance Car Clinic held by the local
chapter. Had a blast.
>
> Here is an interesting measurement
that I obtained with my G-Tech Pro. In my
> '91 VR4 with Eibach
ProKit springs and Firestone Firehawks SZ50 275/40/17 on
> stock rims, I
measured a lateral G force of .97 in instantaneous mode. I
> mounted
the G-Tech as square as possible on the AC display. This is a
fairly
> slow track with top speeds of 110-115 mph (in my VR4) and turns
in the 40-90 mph
> range. I was curious as to what other folks have
measured.
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Mon Dec 6 14:57:51 1999
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From: Matt Jannusch
<MAJ@BigCharts.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Thanks for answers
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 16:57:47 -0600
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> If your car
does not have a turbo timer already installed, I
> would suggest that you
put one in. It makes using the car a
> lot easier. You do not have to
spend an extra minute or three
> in the car letting it cool down.
Otherwise you run the chance
> of damaging the bearings in the
turbos.
Has anyone on the list actually destroyed a pair of turbos due to
oil coking in the bearings? Just wondering if this is actual truth or just
something that sounds like a good idea. Obviously it is best to cool down
the turbos, but I'm just wondering how many actual failures
occur.
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
15G's :-)
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Dec 6 18:34:10 1999
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From: "Kevin Fanciulli"
<nebula9@home.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Thanks for
answers
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 19:38:15 -0700
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I am also
wondering about the turbo cool-down theory... After installing my
turbo
timer, all my friends have asked "if cooling down the turbos is
so
important, why don't they tell you to do it in the manual?" Got
me to
thinking... IS it really that important? Do our cars
automatically cool
them down after the engine is shut off (like Syclones and
Typhoons do)?
Also, wouldn't the oil just drain out of the turbos anyway --
instead of
staying in them and cooking?
-kevin fanciulli
'92
Stealth RT/TT - w/ Blitz Dual Turbo Timer
3Si #0375
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Matt Jannusch
>
Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 3:58 PM
> To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Thanks for
answers
>
>
> > If your car does not have a turbo timer
already installed, I
> > would suggest that you put one in. It makes
using the car a
> > lot easier. You do not have to spend an extra
minute or three
> > in the car letting it cool down. Otherwise you run
the chance
> > of damaging the bearings in the turbos.
>
>
Has anyone on the list actually destroyed a pair of turbos due to
> oil
coking in the bearings? Just wondering if this is actual
> truth or
just something that sounds like a good idea. Obviously
> it is best
to cool down the turbos, but I'm just wondering how
> many actual failures
occur.
>
> -Matt
> '95 3000GT Spyder VR4
> 15G's
:-)
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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1999 21:56:16 EST
Subject: Re: Team3S: Thanks for answers
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I just received
my "new" 91stealth owners manual from daimler chrysler today
and
onpage 5 there's a caution: to 'not turn off the engine immediately after
running the engine at high speeds or under a heavy load, but to allow the
engine to run at idle for approx. 60 secs. or more before stopping it. And
to
fail to do this would cut offf the oil supply to the turbo and cause
overheating of the bearings.
Bruce of okc
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Reply-To: <beking@home.com>
From:
"Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Thanks for
answers
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 19:58:18 -0700
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I don't have an
manual handy, but I am pretty sure they do tell you to let
the car idle for a
minute or two after spirited driving for the specific
purpose of cooling down
the turbos.
Same applies to warming it up before kicking the boost to
it.
The turbos on the VR4 are oil cooled by engine oil pressure supplied
by a
mechanical oil pump. There is no oil pressure unless the engine is
running.
If there is no oil pressure there is no oil moving through the unit
and
therefore little or no cooling effect. Oil will drain out for the
most part
after the engine is shut off but some will stay behind. It is
this oil that
will eventually cause problems if it is allowed to sit there
and bake in an
excessively hot turbo. If it is allowed to bake it will
eventually coke up
the blower. This can lead to reduced efficency,
premature failure, if not
outright failure.
Barry
>
-----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Kevin
>
Fanciulli
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 7:38 PM
> To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Thanks for
answers
>
>
> I am also wondering about the turbo cool-down
theory... After
> installing my
> turbo timer, all my friends
have asked "if cooling down the turbos is so
> important, why don't
they tell you to do it in the manual?" Got me to
>
thinking... IS it really that important? Do our cars automatically
cool
> them down after the engine is shut off (like Syclones and Typhoons
do)?
> Also, wouldn't the oil just drain out of the turbos anyway --
instead of
> staying in them and cooking?
>
> -kevin
fanciulli
> '92 Stealth RT/TT - w/ Blitz Dual Turbo Timer
> 3Si
#0375
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Dec 6 20:14:14 1999
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From: "Sam Shelat"
<sshelat@erols.com>
To: "team3s"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: strange clunk sound
when starting
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:59:36 -0800
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After installing the Stillen downpipe, I have started hearing a
clunk when I
first start the car, or when putting it into reverse. The
problem is once
its on, I can not tell where or if it is striking something
under the car.
It sounds like metal hitting metal. The pipe cannot be
pushed around by
hand as it is on tight. I suspect the engine is
torquing causing the pipe
to bend at the flex section and strike the transfer
case. Does anyone else
have problems with their downpipe or do I just
have the luck!? In reverse,
it sounds like its dragging on the ground,
but how could it? Could it be a
broken engine mount or is there
something I messed up while installing it?
Sam 95 VR4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Dec 6 20:43:01 1999
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Date:
Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:42:24 EST
Subject: Re: Team3S: strange clunk sound when
starting
To: sshelat@erols.com,
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
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In a message
dated 12/6/99 10:17:10 PM Central Standard Time,
sshelat@erols.com
writes:
<< fter installing the Stillen downpipe, I have started
hearing a clunk when I
first start the car, or when putting it into
reverse. The problem is once
its on, I can not tell where or if it is
striking something under the car.
It sounds like metal hitting metal.
The pipe cannot be pushed around by
hand as it is on tight. I suspect
the engine is torquing causing the pipe
to bend at the flex section and
strike the transfer case. Does anyone else
have problems with their
downpipe or do I just have the luck!? In reverse,
it sounds like its
dragging on the ground, but how could it? Could it be a
broken engine
mount or is there something I messed up while installing it?
Sam 95
VR4
>>
Hi there Sam,
I too, had
that same problem with my Alamo (has flex section) DP.
Peculiar thing;
the "Clunk" sound occurred only at a certain torque level; as
if
when shifting too soon into a higher gear then hitting & flooring the gas
pedal. But NEVER did the sound occur in Reverse in my situation.
After
several attempts to diagnose the DP area and finding that everything
is tight
and secure, we found nothing except for the fact that the front
part of the
DP area (or possibly the gutted pre-cat housing) may have been
hitting part
of the frame of the car. After several attempts to
re-postition & re-install
the DP; the attempts were unsuccessful - I
still had the "clunking" noise. I
decided to just deal with
the "Clunking" noise and avoid any low rpm (higher
gear) wide open
throttle situations.
Eventually when we removed the
DP again to install my EGT gauge and place
the probe into the rear exhaust
manifold, the "clunking" sound disappeared
when we finally
re-installed everything........so go figure!??? I just don't
understand what happened or what we did differently when we re-installed the
DP. So all I can recommend is for you to attempt to remove your DP
again and
re-install it in a more "clearance" oriented
manner. Try to position the DP
in such a way that it has enough
clearance when under torque to avoid hitting
any other parts of the
car...........I hope that makes sense.
I don't think that helped much
but I just wanted to share my same "clunking"
sound experience
with you and everyone else........hope it was of some help,
anyway.
Talk to you soon,
Ahmed "AL-Crazy" - '92
VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Mon
Dec 6 21:18:41 1999
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From: "Paul T.
Golley" <ptgolley@hiwaay.net>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: More on Boost
Controller Set-Up
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:17:37 -0600
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bulk
I offer this long post because of the great variance
in advice I
got from members of this (and other) lists, as to how to set up
my electronic
boost controller.
My controller is the APEXi Super AVC-R. (Not the
latest
"big-faced" version).
All runs made in trying to set-up were at
wide open throttle (WOT), starting
between 2500-3000rpm and
going to
5000-6000rpm. This was in 3rd gear on a
6-speed. Max boost was always
set at 1.0 bar. I was advised by members of
the lists to start at various
numbers between .35, and .84 BADC (boost
actuator duty cycle).
At .60 BADC
I got overboost to 1.25-1.27bar,
fuel cut, and ignition miss.
Set BADC to
.44, got .68bar boost, no fuel cut,
no overshoot, and no missing.
Set BADC
to .68, got no cut, no miss, and no overshoot, but didn't come near
1.0bar
boost.
Next I kept incrementally raising BADC, and finally
reached 1.0bar
at an BADC of .74 between 5000
and 6000rpm. Great! However the
mid-range
punch (2500-4000rpm) was less than in some
earlier
runs.
After a few days of ordinary driving, I noticed that
the mid-range
punch came back. Guess the APEXi
was "learning!" Maybe a week
later, my datalogger (wife) was with me, and I
made a full throttle run; but
the boost only reached .87bar! Hmmm- so I went
back to incrementally
increasing the BADC 'til I got 1.0bar without
over-shoot, missing or fuel
cut, and the BADC that achieved this was .80. I
set up the same BADC in
the "B" channel and got the same results.
So I think I'm pretty
near optimum settings for my
car. Two things still puzzle me: (1)
my reading of the
lists led me to believe that stock turbos could
not
achieve 1.0bar at 5000-6000rpm, and (2), why
are my OEM plugs not
misfiring? I bought a new set of plugs and gapped them
to 0.350 in
expectation
of having to install them to prevent misfire at higher
boost
levels, of which I have very little, if any.
I hope this info is useful to
some people, maybe
even to some of the "veterans" who gave me
such
disparate advice on how to "set-up" this S-AVC-R.
Best
regards,
ptg
PS-
If list administrators feel I have belabored this
subject
too extensively, simply say so.
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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From: "R.G."
<robby@freesurf.ch>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
References:
<005301bf4072$6119e680$cf06b4d8@sjiredff>
Subject: Re: Team3S: More on
Boost Controller Set-Up
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:09:01 +0100
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> This
was in 3rd gear on a 6-speed.
Ok, just make sure the car runs on full
load. On the 5 speed this is in third and above and I'm not sure about 6
speed.
> At .60 BADC I got overboost to 1.25-1.27bar, fuel cut, and
ignition miss.
<snip>
> Set BADC to .68, got no cut, no miss, and
no overshoot, but didn't come near 1.0bar boost.
Ahem, was the first line
a typo ?? 0.6 BADC and that high overboost (and hopefully no damage) ? and 0.68
and no problem then ?
> After a few days of ordinary driving, I
noticed that the mid-range punch came back.
> Guess the APEXi was
"learning!"
The question is have you put it in learning mode
?
> Two things still puzzle me:
> (1) my reading of the lists
led me to believe that stock turbos could not
> achieve 1.0bar at
5000-6000rpm
Depends on how much overboost you are getting and how fast
it is limited. When you shift at 7000 and overboost happens at 6000 then, boost
may hold to 6000 but it will not when accellerating from 2500.
> (2),
why are my OEM plugs not misfiring? I bought a new set of plugs and gapped
them
> to 0.350 in expectation of having to install them to prevent
misfire at higher
You are not geting misfires due to the fact you are not
running more than 1 bar around 5500 - 5700 (where the misfires happens) and the
plugs gapped ok.
> If list administrators feel I have belabored this
subject
> too extensively, simply say so.
Nono, good info
!!
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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From: "R.G."
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To:
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References:
<004101bf405c$1d238820$1964010a@winbook>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Thanks
for answers
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:39:17 +0100
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> I am also
wondering about the turbo cool-down theory... After installing my
>
turbo timer, all my friends have asked "if cooling down the turbos is
so
> important, why don't they tell you to do it in the
manual?"
As one already stated, this is mentioned in the manual
(even on my german/french/italian one). But they do not say how long to cool it
down. But in our hemisphere you have to slow down heavily before you come to the
house and in my case the DualTimer shown for 90% of the cases 10 sec (minimum
time) and I shut it off immediatly then. I only let it idle when it calculates a
time of more than that (especially after test-runs... 1min 20sec were not seldom
!)
> Got me to thinking... IS it really that important? Do
our cars automatically cool
> them down after the engine is shut off (like
Syclones and Typhoons do)?
AFAIK, the GM cars leave the fan on until the
temp went down but do not circulate the oil anymore (engine not running). This
is the same with the Audi Turbos but there the fan is then blowing to the
turbo.
> Also, wouldn't the oil just drain out of the turbos anyway --
instead of
> staying in them and cooking?
After switching the
engine off, there is still some pressure in the system and the oil doesn't drain
that fast. Even more then the thin layer of oil will cook much faster and
therefore I think it is always better to feed some fresh fluid through
them for some time. The only bad thing of this cooling down period is that the
intake heats up like crazy due to the lack of colder air getting into the engine
compartment. As an example, I got a reading of 84°F before the TB when
driving to home back from a testdrive with the timer still showing 52 seconds.
During the cool down phase (sitting infront the garage) the temperature rose
above 125 during this time (lack of cool air sucked in). With the hood open, the
result was about 3° lower (negligible)
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Dec 7 09:04:28 1999
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From:
Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
To: "'Sam Shelat'"
<sshelat@erols.com>
Cc: team3s
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: strange clunk
sound when starting
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:01:27 -0800
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Sam...
I
had a similar experience when added my GReddy catback exhaust. I ended
up
removing the left side tow hook and it went away.
When I later
added the ATR downpipe (which doesn't have a flex section like
the stock
downpipe), I would get a clunk when decelerating. It was
infrequent so I put
up with it. When I pulled the GReddy completely and
added a Flowmaster
muffler to the back end of the downpipe it got VERY loud,
slamming under
either acceleration or deceleration. Clearly a result of the
engine torquing
on its motor mounts (which I examined and found no failure).
Soooo, I took a
sheet of gasket material and a piece of truck tire and
strapped it to the
muffler. Perfectly quiet. The kluggie (technical term) is
very ugly, but I
spend as little time as possible under the car. :-)
I think the
bottom line is that no aftermarket component will be as perfect
a fit as the
stock component. However, we can all discover (and share)
fairly simple
workarounds.
Looking forward...Chris
-----Original
Message-----
From: Sam Shelat [mailto:sshelat@erols.com]
Sent: Monday,
December 06, 1999 11:00 PM
To: team3s
Subject: Team3S: strange clunk sound
when starting
After installing the Stillen downpipe, I have started
hearing a clunk when I
first start the car, or when putting it into
reverse. The problem is once
its on, I can not tell where or if it is
striking something under the car.
It sounds like metal hitting metal.
The pipe cannot be pushed around by
hand as it is on tight. I suspect
the engine is torquing causing the pipe
to bend at the flex section and
strike the transfer case. Does anyone else
have problems with their
downpipe or do I just have the luck!? In reverse,
it sounds like its
dragging on the ground, but how could it? Could it be a
broken engine
mount or is there something I messed up while installing it?
Sam 95
VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Dec 7 11:14:58 1999
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From: "Robert
Jerome Mengler" <RMENGLER@statoil.com>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
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<41256840.006A4339.00@stfo-lnsmtp.statoil.no>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999
13:20:29 +0100
Subject: Team3S: FrontWheelDrive: Taking off tooQuickly In
1st?
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I bought a
standard transmission '94 3000gtSL and am apparently still
learning how to
drive it 3000 miles later. The tires are good. I have
learned
that for me, the best way to smoothly leave a complete stop
(without riding
the clutch) is to slowly let out the hydraulic (stock)
clutch in a 2 step
mode on the clutch pedal. If time permits no gas is
necessary,
otherwise a bit of gas helps for a smoother transition into
acceleration
mode. Succeeding gears are shifted at 3200-3500rpm or above
for a
smooth shift. Anyways, that was the results of an earlier post
which
some of you may remember and thank you for all of the responses.
When I
don't care how rough I take off from a complete stop, however, I
sometimes
give the car too much gas and the front tires slip in first
gear. I'm sure
we've all done this but lately I have noticed a
chunk-chunk-chunk (maybe
3-5 times in quick succession) deep sound (for lack
of a better word)
coming from the front tires which I am hoping is just the
tires grabbing,
then not grabbing, then grabbing, etc. (causing something
near the front
axle/tires to "slosh"???) until traction is good and
the sound goes away.
I noticed a similar sound though, backing off the end of
my driveway this
morning, almost like a shock bottoming out or
something. It only clunked
once obviously while backing off the slight
curve from my sloping driveway.
I am wondering with only 64,000 miles if it
is possible that struts and/or
shocks could be worn at this
stage. Loose CV boots????? But could
the
chunk-chunk-chunk occasional noise upon quick acceleration in 1st
gear
described above really be related to shocks or struts?? Sorry if
this
isn't descriptive enough or a bit vague, but I am willing to expand
and
answer all questions. Thanks in advance for any
help.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Dec 7 13:59:46 1999
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From:
"Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
To: "'Team3S
List'" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
FrontWheelDrive: Taking off tooQuickly In 1st?
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:59:39
-0800
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I'm not sure if
this is completely related or not, but I've been meaning to
ask you guys
about this:
In the last 6 months, I'm pretty sure the tendency of my car
to wheel hop
(only in 1st gear) has gone up significantly. It's been a
gradual thing,
but I just don't remember it hopping as much this time last
year. It
doesn't help living the PNW where it's almost always wet in
the winter.
What I'm seeing(when I'm taking off from a stop and trying to
go fast):
Dry:
Slip the clutch a bit and ease into the throttle
gradually with it
ending up almost floored by 4000RPM or so. Sometimes
looses traction on
less-than-perfect roads, but I can usually get at least
close to floored.
Completely flooring it right after the clutch is out will
lose traction and
get wheel hop at about 5300RPM
Wet(damp, not
puddles):
Same as dry, except can't get it anywhere near floored in 1st
until
6500RPM (when I'm shifting anyway). Any sudden changes in
throttle position
or getting the throttle above about 3/4 floored before
6000RPM loses
traction and I get skull-rattling wheel hop! As soon as I
notice it, I
either lay off the throttle until I get traction or just grab
2nd (depending
on what RPM I'm at). The wheel hop is so bad that I'm
pretty sure I'd break
something if I let it go for more than a few
seconds.
What ever happened to just spinning the wheels? I mean, my
car *never* just
spins the wheels anymore when I lose traction (not that I
try too often), it
just goes from acceleration to crazy wheel hopping!
The only significant
changes I've made in my car in the last year are wider,
better tires (245
Firehawks), and a K&N (which the butt-dyno doesn't
think did very much).
What's going on here? I know I've seen FWD cars
spin tires without hopping,
so is this a 3000GT thing, or is there something
going out on my car? Would
this indicate that my front struts aren't
providing enough resistance to
movement and the springs are just bouncing
around, causing wheel hop? Or
something
else?
Thanks!
--Erik
------
----------
Erik
Gross
DuPont, WA
'95 Pearl White 3000GT (NA, DOHC,
5-speed) 64,000
mi
Firestone Firehawk 245/50/ZR16 tires, stock wheels
Magnacor KV85 spark
plug wires, NGK plugs @ 0.040"
K&N FIPK (57-1500), resonator
intact
Mobil 1 10W30 Synthetic w/ OEM oil filter
***No more ticking lash
adjusters! Treated with GM EOS, BG
44K FI cleaner. Change
oil every 2000mi, filter 4000mi
***
-------------------------------------------------------------
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Dec 7 14:19:34 1999
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From: "Benson
\"elmagoo\" Russell" <benson@2015.com>
To: "3000GT
Mailing" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
FrontWheelDrive: Taking off tooQuickly In 1st?
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 16:19:49
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bulk
Well I know it's not just a 3000GT thing, because my 94 eclipse did
the
same. Mostly in wet weather because it was hard to spin the tires
in that
(it was only a GS, non-turbo). But when I got the 3000, helll
it was easy
to spin those suckers :). But sometimes I'll get to
bouncing on a take-off
as well.
Latuh fuh
U,
Benson
benson@2015.com
"-Do you ever have second
thoughts?
-When do I ever have first thoughts?"
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Dec 7 14:26:24 1999
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From: Matt Jannusch
<MAJ@BigCharts.com>
To: 3000GT Mailing
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: FrontWheelDrive:
Taking off tooQuickly In 1st?
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 16:26:17 -0600
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> Well I know
it's not just a 3000GT thing, because my 94
> eclipse did the same.
Mostly in wet weather because it was
> hard to spin the tires in that (it
was only a GS, non-turbo).
> But when I got the 3000, helll it was easy to
spin those
> suckers :). But sometimes I'll get to bouncing
>
on a take-off as well.
Be careful with this. Wheel hop is a great
way to snap driveshafts. The 3/S shafts are stronger than the DSM ones (in
which older shafts snap a lot during wheel hop), but when the wheels grab during
hopping there are enormous forces applied to the
driveshafts.
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Dec 7 14:46:44 1999
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Date: Tue, 07
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From: Ken Middaugh
<Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Organization: General Atomics - Fusion
Group
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To: Team3S
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>,
Rick Brown - work <RBrown@freewayinsurance.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Cracked cross-drilled rotor
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(semi-long
post)
As you may recall, I attended an SCCA High Performance Car Clinic
this past
Saturday. It was the second time I have been on a track with
a street car, both
times with my '91 VR4, and it was tremendous fun.
The actual track time
amounted to about a miniscule 36 minutes over 3
sessions, but it was only $60.
It was supposed to be 45 minutes of driving
but session lengths were reduced due
to a track accident that required the
ambulance to be gone about an hour.
While driving home through 120 miles
of back roads, I noticed my brakes were
thumping and it was getting
worse. I didn't notice this on the track. Before
the 3rd session,
I checked my front pads and they appeared to be about 2/3
used. I
figured worn pads might be the culprit. No problem I thought. I
took
2 extra sets of pads to the track so I'd just replace them in the
morning.
Well, I still had adequate pad life left. The problem
turned out to be a crack
in my cross-drilled rotor. The crack was on
the outboard side of the rotor,
through a cross-drilled hole closest to the
outside diameter of the rotor. It
extended all the way to the edge of
the rotor and also extended inward radially
toward the center about the same
distance. It was not a surface crack as the
crack was visible on
rotor's edge to be all the way through the outboard side of
the
rotor.
Allright, I've kept you in suspense long enough. These are
KVR cross-drilled
rotors and KVR semi-metallic Carbon Fiber pads. I
installed them about 9 months
ago. They were used exclusively on the
street until the 36 minutes of track
time this past Saturday. However,
I do regularly brake abruptly from 110 - 60
mph about 2-4 times a week on the
way home from work. Two weekends ago while
cleaning out the brake dust
from the holes, I noticed that all holes had what
appeared to be hairline
surface cracks all oriented radially from the center.
I've been very
happy with the KVR pads. They stop very well after you heat
them
up. The first one or two stops aren't so great though. They
seemed to last
well too, through 9 months and 50 miles of track time.
My buddy with a 92 VR4
installed new BBQ treated KVR pads for the same
event. His looked barely used
after the 2nd session. Also they do
dust more than stock pads. For $63 a set,
these are great
pads!
The rotors are another story though. KVR will replace rotors
within 2 months of
purchase, or will prorate them up to a year. Most
likely, the problem isn't a
KVR issue, but rather an issue of cross-drilled
rotors since I've heard similar
stories about other cross-drilled
rotors. Regardless, I think I will try the
Porterfield
non-cross-drilled, cryogenically treated rotors for my next
set.
Regards,
Ken
--
I'm surprised you stopped me officer,
Dunkin Donuts has a 3 for 1 special!
Ken Middaugh (858)
455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Dec 7 14:51:44 1999
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From: Ken Middaugh
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Organization: General Atomics - Fusion
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To: "Gross,
Erik"
<erik.gross@intel.com>,
Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
FrontWheelDrive: Taking off tooQuickly In 1st?
References:
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Maybe your
struts aren't damping as well as they did a year ago. How old
are
they?
--
I'm surprised you stopped me officer, Dunkin Donuts
has a 3 for 1 special!
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General
Atomics
San Diego
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Dec 7 15:04:43 1999
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Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 17:00:49 -0600
To: Ken Middaugh
<Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>,
Team3S
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>,
Rick Brown - work <RBrown@freewayinsurance.com>
From: Merritt
<merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Cracked cross-drilled
rotor
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>
>While driving home through 120 miles of back roads, I
noticed my brakes were
>thumping and it was getting worse. <snip>
The problem turned out to be a
crack
>in my cross-drilled rotor.
The crack was on the outboard side of the rotor,
>through a cross-drilled
hole closest to the outside diameter of the rotor.
It
>extended all the
way to the edge of the rotor and also extended inward
radially
>toward
the center about the same distance. <snip> I think I will try
the
>Porterfield non-cross-drilled, cryogenically treated rotors for my
next set.
>
Good choice. Run stock pads on the street and Porterfield
R4 pads on the
track, and it oughta work just fine for you.
Cross-drilled and slotted rotors are just for show. On our cars, they
break
if you use them hard.
It would help if you'd run some
cooling air in there. You probably got
those KVR rotors up to about 1300
degrees. The Porterfield rotors will be
OK, but such high temps wear out pads
quickly.
Rich/old poop/94 VR4/somebody stop me!
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Dec 7 15:09:34 1999
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From:
"Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
To: Team3S
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Cracked
cross-drilled rotor
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:10:43 -0800
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I've been very
happy with the KVR pads. They stop very well after you heat
them
up. The first one or two stops aren't so great though. They
seemed to last
well too, through 9 months and 50 miles of track time.
My buddy with a 92 VR4
installed new BBQ treated KVR pads for the same
event. His looked barely used
after the 2nd session. Also they do
dust more than stock pads. For $63 a set,
these are great
pads!
The rotors are another story though. KVR will replace rotors
within 2 months of
purchase, or will prorate them up to a year. Most
likely, the problem isn't a
KVR issue, but rather an issue of cross-drilled
rotors since I've heard similar
stories about other cross-drilled
rotors. Regardless, I think I will try the
Porterfield
non-cross-drilled, cryogenically treated rotors for my next
set.
---
1) I think i'll be buying those pads!
2) I
belive, that crossdrilling creates weak spots in the rotors, as the
rotor
heat cycles at different rates around the holes. I firmly
recomend slotting, as
it doesnt remove as much thermal mass, and doesnt
affect how the metal
grows/shrinks.
Anyone know a place in the
Bay-Area that will slot a rotor for me?
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Dec 7 15:09:54 1999
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From: "R.G."
<robby@freesurf.ch>
To: "Team3S List"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Heads,
Valves
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 00:09:05 +0100
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bulk
Ok, call be the lucky guy :) I'm getting an 91 motor (92'Stealth TT,
US) to
part out as it had the belt slipping and damaged all the valves (at
least).
I'm getting the heads for free (hehe) as I helped the guy to install
a new
engine (he paid $2700 from a car who had a rollover with 15k miles) and
they
are not sellable as they need some work on the valves, adjusters and
maybe
more.
Questions :
- Are there any lightweight valves
available. Where ? how much ?
- Cams : Any idea about hotter cams ?
- what
are the stock 9b turbos with about 28k miles on them, mint condition,
worth ?
The guy needs some money out of the additional costs he had but they
would
not be expensive. Of course oil lines, water pump and some other parts
may be
available as well but I have first to check the engine puzzle
(everything is
in boxes, gulp)
Thanks for any input,
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Dec 7 15:27:25 1999
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From:
"Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
To: Team3S
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Cracked
cross-drilled rotor
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:30:42 -0800
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Cross-drilled
and slotted rotors are just for show. On our cars, they break
if you use them
hard.
---
Then how do you solve the gassing problem?
Im not
talking OVERLY slotting a rotor btw..
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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From:
"Gross, Erik" <erik.gross@intel.com>
To: "'Team3S
List'" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
FrontWheelDrive: Taking off tooQuickly In 1st?
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:36:23
-0800
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>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Jannusch
[mailto:MAJ@BigCharts.com]
>
> > sometimes I'll get to bouncing
on a take-off as well.
>
> Be careful with this. Wheel hop is
a great way to snap
> driveshafts.
Yeah, definitely!
I cringe every time it happens, and it is quite rare when
I'm careful (99.5%
of the time). I usually end up feathering the throttle
and
"feeling" for the edge as I depress the throttle. If I feel it
start to
slip, I back off slightly. Maybe I'm just remembering fondly,
but it seems
that point where things start to slip is sooner than last
year...that's what
bothers me:)
> From: Ken Middaugh
[mailto:Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com]
>
> Maybe your struts aren't
damping as well as they did a year
> ago. How old are
they?
I'm wondering the same thing...how much mileage do you typically
get out of
the stock struts/shocks? I've figured I'll just do the whole
suspension
(well, struts, shocks, and springs anyway:) when the stock ones go
south,
but I thought I'd get more than 65,000 miles outta them. My
thinking is
that I should be able to take the stock struts/springs off as a
unit and
replace them with aftermarket ones and not have to fool around with
spring
compressors and stuff (most aftermarket springs aren't compressed when
not
loaded, but the stock ones are,
right?)
--Erik
P.S.
The rears seem to be fine, so maybe
I could put new struts/lowering
springs on the front and leave the rear
stock:) I wonder how that'd handle?
It'd almost look like an old
American muscle car with a jacked-up rear end:)
That'd be a sight...for about
10 minutes, and then I'd have to shoot myself
for looking like a
rice-boy-wannabe-castmember-of-Grease.
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 17:38:53 -0600
To: "Mohler, Jeff"
<jeff.mohler@netapp.com>,
Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
From: Merritt
<merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Cracked cross-drilled
rotor
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>Cross-drilled and slotted rotors are just for show. On our cars,
they break
>if you use them hard.
>
>Then how do you solve
the gassing problem?
>Im not talking OVERLY slotting a rotor
btw..
Get air flow to them, I guess. I didn't know gassing was a problem.
Having BROKEN two slotted rotors at the hub, I'll take gassing problems
any
day, whatever they are.
Rich/old poop/94 VR4/somebody stop
me!
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Dec 7 16:10:05 1999
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From: "Darcy
Gunnlaugson" <wce@telus.net>
To: "Ken Middaugh"
<Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>,
"Team3S"
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"Rick Brown - work"
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Subject: Re: Team3S:
Cracked cross-drilled rotor
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 16:01:31
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Hey Rich;
When are you going to get some pics of your brake
coolong system available
to those of us who're interested?? Weak links with
fixes need sites to
inform
:-)
Darc
snip
>Cross-drilled and slotted rotors are just
for show. On our cars, they break
>if you use them hard.
>
>It
would help if you'd run some cooling air in there. You probably
got
>those KVR rotors up to about 1300 degrees.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Dec 7 16:23:01 1999
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Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999
16:22:56 -0800
From: Ken Middaugh
<Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Organization: General Atomics - Fusion
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CC: Team3S
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Cracked
cross-drilled rotor
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> When
are you going to get some pics of your brake coolong system available
> to
those of us who're interested?? Weak links with fixes need sites to
>
inform :-)
When will one of our list entrepeneurs begin making and
selling front brake
backing plates with hose barbs welded on so one could
attach cooling hoses?
--
I'm surprised you stopped me officer, Dunkin
Donuts has a 3 for 1 special!
Ken Middaugh (858) 455-4510
General
Atomics
San Diego
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Dec 7 16:29:56 1999
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Date: Tue, 7 Dec
1999 19:29:22 EST
Subject: Team3S: What does the "J" stand
for?
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
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I've been
looking for rims recently and trying to match the dia. and width of
the
stock rims. For '91 VR4 the stock rim is 17 x 8.5J - anybody know what
the
"J" is for in this spec?
Thanks.
Paul Klusman
For
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Dec 7 16:34:37 1999
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Date: Tue, 07
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From: Ken Middaugh
<Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Organization: General Atomics - Fusion
Group
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To: "Gross,
Erik"
<erik.gross@intel.com>,
Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
FrontWheelDrive: Taking off tooQuickly In 1st?
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"Gross,
Erik" wrote:
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
From: Matt Jannusch [mailto:MAJ@BigCharts.com]
> >
> > >
sometimes I'll get to bouncing on a take-off as well.
> >
> >
Be careful with this. Wheel hop is a great way to snap
> >
driveshafts.
>
> I'm wondering the same thing...how much
mileage do you typically get out of
> the stock struts/shocks? I've
figured I'll just do the whole suspension
> (well, struts, shocks, and
springs anyway:) when the stock ones go south,
> but I thought I'd get
more than 65,000 miles outta them. My thinking is
> that I should be
able to take the stock struts/springs off as a unit and
> replace them
with aftermarket ones and not have to fool around with spring
>
compressors and stuff (most aftermarket springs aren't compressed when
not
> loaded, but the stock ones are, right?)
I guess between
40,000 - 80,000 miles depending on how harsh the roads and
environment are
where you live. Here in So. Cal, I replaced my struts at 80K
and could
of done it earlier since they were so noisy/clunky. I also
installed
Eibach Pro springs at the same time. The front springs are
under load so you do
need a spring compressor. I just removed the
assemblies, and took them to a
tire shop. They swapped the hardware
onto the new struts & springs for $40.
--
I'm surprised you
stopped me officer, Dunkin Donuts has a 3 for 1 special!
Ken Middaugh
(858) 455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 18:43:38 -0600
To: "Darcy
Gunnlaugson"
<wce@telus.net>,
"Ken
Middaugh"
<Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>,
"Team3S"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>,
"Rick Brown - work" <RBrown@freewayinsurance.com>
From:
Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Cracked
cross-drilled rotor
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>
>When
are you going to get some pics of your brake coolong system available
>to
those of us who're interested?? Weak links with fixes need sites
to
>inform :-)
>
I'm still fiddling with the scoops. Now that I
lowered the car, my scoops
hit on every road bump. I'm trying to figure out
how to build a
spring-loaded scoop that will be driven up when it hits an
obstacle, then
springs back. Now, they just rip off on driveways and dips in
the road. I
may remove the entire panel under the fascia and try something
else.
Actually, it's a very boss scoop -- it's black, round, plastic,
about 3 in.
dia., and leads to a 2x2 in. square opening. The 2.5 in. hose
fits in there
very nicely, and the scoop fits right into the 4x6 openings
under the
fascia. I found them in the plumbing section at Menard's for about
$1.50
each. They look mean sitting under there. Alas, they hang
down too a
little too far for my car. I have a set of white clothes dryer
vents that
might work -- I'll try those next. The very best scoops were some
huge 2x8
plastic gutter downspouts that I found at Payless Cashways, but
they
protruded down too far, and I ripped them off in the grass at
Blackhawk
Farms.
In general, my brake cooling system consists
of:
1. Removed front inner fender well to promote air flow.
2. Removed
backing plates from front rotors to promote air flow.
3. Scoops under front
bumper (centered over 4x6 openings under fascia)
4. 2.5 in. hose from scoop
to middle of the wheel (I gave up trying to fit
it into the caliper opening,
because if it slips it tears the halfshaft
boot). The hose is tie-wrapped to
the lower stabilizing arm.
5. Water hoses run to rotors from the windshield
washer pump. I squirt
water into the center of the rotor, right where the
vent holes are. I don't
spray directly on the wiped surface. Prior to
an event, I remove the line
to the windshield washer jets (at the upper right
hand corner of the engine
compartment), and T it into the two hoses running
to the rotors. I remove
the windshield wiper motor plug, so the wipers don't
work. Then, when I
need to cool my brakes, I give them a shot of water
with the windshield
washer lever. A full reservoir lasts about 20 minutes.
Seemed to work at
Road America. When the reservoir is empty, the light comes
on. Handy.
If I ever stop fiddling with the brakes, I'll take a picture
of them.
Rich/old poop/94 VR4/somebody stop me!
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Dec 7 18:52:08 1999
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From: "Michael
McWilliams" <CelMike@email.msn.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Thanks for
answers
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:29:14 -0500
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>
>Has anyone on the list actually destroyed a pair of
turbos due to oil
coking in the bearings? Just wondering if this is
actual truth or just
something that sounds like a good idea. Obviously
it is best to cool down
the turbos, but I'm just wondering how many actual
failures occur.
>
>-Matt
>'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
>15G's :-)
>
Well, the reason I'm having my
turbos rebuilt into 15Gs is because the rear
turbo was totally shot and the
front one was on its way out. The rear turbo
had lots of in/out and
side to side play in the shaft and leaked oil badly.
The front one made a
scraping sound when spun.
Since I've only put about 4k miles on the car
since I've owned it, I don't
know if it was lack of cool-down, infrequent oil
change, non-synthetic oil
or a combination of the three which did my turbos
in, but I'm sure a
cool-down period can't hurt.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Dec 7 20:53:33 1999
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From: George Kuo
<amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Cracked cross-drilled
rotor
To: Team3S <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
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I believe
cross-drilled are NOT just for show.. but
they are not intended for long hard
abuse.. maybe just
a couple of weekend events (if you're lucky)..
---
"Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com> wrote:
>
Cross-drilled and slotted rotors are just for show.
> On our cars, they
break
> if you use them hard.
> ---
>
> Then how do
you solve the gassing problem?
>
> Im not talking OVERLY slotting a
rotor btw..
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
__________________________________________________
Do You
Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one
place.
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
Dec 8 02:09:31 1999
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Subject: Re:
Team3S: Cracked cross-drilled rotor
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 11:01:11
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> I believe
cross-drilled are NOT just for show.. but
> they are not intended for long
hard abuse.. maybe just
> a couple of weekend events (if you're
lucky)..
Guys, may I remind you that there is a german car maker that
runs pretty good brakes on their cars ? Yes, Prosche uses crossdrilled rotors
and I tell you the stuff holds ! But check the design as the holes are already
included in the cast and are drilled out fully for finishing. this is the same
with the Bremsa brakes. Even more in Europe we do have a min. distance from the
edge of the disk to the first hole as well as the max diameter of the
holes.
The non-expensive crossdrilled rotors got the holes after the
production is done. The advantage is additional cooling as well as giving the
gases a chance to go away from the pads. Furthermore, some dust will go away
there as well as water does.
IMHO, get only crossdrilled ones if you are
sure they will do their job well. For this I can only tell of the Porsche
(MovIt), Brembo and Bremsa (both the same manufacturer in Italy)
rotors.
BTW, even Baer does tell you that their crossdrilled rotors tend
to brake on circle track events and they sold me the ones with only four slots
for the Z28. Damn good brakes !
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
Dec 8 06:49:34 1999
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Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 09:43:48
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From: "John T. Christian"
<jczoom@geocities.com>
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To: Stealth-3000GT
<stealth-3000GT@list.sirius.com>
CC: Bryan Schwieg
<schwieg@ibm.net>,
Brad
Bedell BIG BRAKES <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re:
Adventure in braking
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Hi
all,
Bryan Schwieg wrote:
>
> Hello John,
> I was
reading a post you wrote about Brad's big brakes and the use of stock rims. I'm
looking to get his brakes, but would like to use my stock '92 stealth rims. Brad
says they won't work.
---> Brad is correct, they will not work as
is.
Are you saying they will if you use supra rotors? Please
elaborate,
what do I have to mod? The wheels? rotors?
--->You would
have to machine away some of the weld metal and part of
the spoke and part of
the inner diameter of the rim. Its safer and
easier to buy new/used
rims. I'd never try modifying a rim for safety
reasons because I run
road courses.
In order to fit the Supra rotors properly, you must machine
away some of
the thin pilot diameter so the rotor fits flat against the TT
hub. Its
a simple process, IF you have a BIG lathe.
If you have
a lathe big enough to turn away enough stock of the rim to
provide clearance,
then cutting the inner hat of the rotor will be a
piece of cake.
Good
luck.
John Christian
> Thanks for your help,
>
Bryan
--
JCZoooM 93 TT 12.46@109Mph Now with
Porsche brakes
Email---> JCZooM@iname.com
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date: Thu, 9 Dec
1999 00:48:45 EST
Subject: Team3S: Vr-4 launching
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Okay
guys, 95 stock VR-4. I'm running in to some
400hp plus power
Camaros and Mustangs that are pulling on me and making me
loose confidence in
my STOCK machine. These are straght runs of
course. Any ideas on launch
techniques or is it time to UPGRADE
the VR-4?? This is embarrasing. One
way I launch is to
hold at 6000 RPM and ride the clutch to fire out of the
hole. Call me
stupid, but this seems to be the FASTEST launch technique. I
still get beat
by a half car length. Is this too rough on my car? Is there
a
better way? What should I do .
Thanks Shannon 95 VR-4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
Dec 8 22:12:26 1999
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From:
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Subject: RE: Team3S: Vr-4
launching
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 23:12:56 -0700
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You didn't
mention 60' times, but riding the clutch is likely not goint to
get you what
you want.
First off, an honest 400 HP in a Camaro is no slouch. If
it can hook up, it
will go pretty good.
This is hard to do, but with
practice will yield as good a launch as you'll
get. A slipping clutch
is not transferring engine power to the wheels.
Also, it'll heat up and take
some time before it hooks up fully. You need
to sacrifice some
wheelspin in order to get that clutch hooked up as soon as
possible.
This is hard on the car, but so is slipping the clutch, and some
might claim
easier on the car overall.
Try some variation of this technique.
Somewhere between 4000 RPM and 5500
RPM is a sweet spot for your car and the
current conditions where you can
practically drop the clutch, get some
minimal amount of wheelspin without
the engine bogging. The RPM will
vary depending upon a number of factors,
but the principles apply. This
is where you'll likely get the best possible
launch.
Rev the car to
the sweet spot (whatever it may be for your setup - just
experiment until you
find it) just before the launch, maybe a few 100 RPM
above. Hold it
there. When it is time to launch, engage the clutch as
quickly as you
can lift your foot without actually sidestepping the clutch.
Apply throttle
at the same time - read that as floor it. Modulate wheelspin
carefully
with the throttle if need be, but usually you can just keep it
floored.
Don't let up too early or you'll get traction before the car is
moving
forward with enough momentum, and risk bogging. Some wheelspin
is
necessary for a good launch.
When it works right you'll be at the
60' mark in well under 2 seconds (1.6
is achievable without too much effort)
and you'll be grabbing 2nd gear in no
time. You can shift from 1st to
2nd just be barely letting off the throttle
ever so slightly, and tapping the
clutch just enough to coax the gearbox out
of 1st and into 2nd very
quickly. The 2-3 shift takes a little more
practise to master
quickly. It is very important to execute these shifts
without letting
too many RPMs drop since without RPMs you will not have
boost. You also
want to keep the engine loaded as much as possible in order
to maintain as
much boost as possible at all times.
If you can pull off 1.6 60' times
there are very few RWD cars that will beat
you for the first little bit
anyway. They may catch you after the 760' mark
if they have the HP, but
you'll at least have spanked them hard out of the
hole, maybe even enough to
make them mess up their run to the point where
they cannot beat
you.
If you have not already done so, at least get some boost behind the
engine.
15-17 PSI should be safe to run for short burst without other mods,
and will
be enough to even up the score somewhat.
You could always try
the Jeff Wong technique. Bounce the engine off the rev
limiter and drop
the clutch...not recommended but it sure is cool to see the
smoke billowing
out of all four wheelwells for 40'. He actually had very
decent
60' times too. =)
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of
>
MitsuVR41@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 10:49 PM
>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: Team3S: Vr-4
launching
>
>
> Okay guys, 95 stock
VR-4. I'm running in to some 400hp plus power
> Camaros
and Mustangs that are pulling on me and making me loose
> confidence
in
> my STOCK machine. These are straght runs of course.
Any ideas
> on launch
> techniques or is it time to UPGRADE the
VR-4?? This is
> embarrasing. One
> way I launch
is to hold at 6000 RPM and ride the clutch to fire
> out of the
>
hole. Call me stupid, but this seems to be the FASTEST launch
> technique.
I
> still get beat by a half car length. Is this too rough on
my
> car? Is there
> a better way? What should I do
. Thanks Shannon 95
VR-4
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Dec 8 23:35:11 1999
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Date: Wed,
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From: David Chen
<neubine@ix.netcom.com>
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Hi everyone,
Just letting everyone know I
got a new Carbon Fiber hood (NOT the
GT-PRO one) a better one... Anyways I
have pics before I paint it and
you guy can check it out.
David
Chen
Neubine@ix.netcom.com
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Wed Dec 8 23:35:29 1999
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Hi everyone,
Just letting everyone know I
got a new Carbon Fiber hood (NOT the
GT-PRO one) a better one... Anyways I
have pics before I paint it and
you guy can check it
out.
www.netcom.com/~neubine/
David
Chen
Neubine@ix.netcom.com
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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From: "B
Collett" <hcollett@ihug.co.nz>
To: "Team 3S Tech List"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: VPC wires,
HELP!
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 22:50:45 +1300
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Here are the wires on the VPC, I need to know where on my
ECU to wire them
Henry
1991 3000GT
TT
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Dec 9 01:52:52 1999
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Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 10:54:05
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From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
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Subject: Re: Team3S: Carbon Fiber
Hood
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> Just
letting everyone know I got a new Carbon Fiber hood (NOT the
> GT-PRO one)
a better one... Anyways I have pics before I paint it and
> you guy can
check it out.
You already primed it right ? I ask because I don't see any
carbon fiber. The
cut-outs look interesting but how do you prevent water,
dirt, pedestrians, etc.
from going in ?
The closer look to the air
filter scoop doesn't look nice. I guess the slot was
cut out afterwards and
was not included in the mold, but it's functional for
sure. And when you say
"better hood", the latches are also not looking that
great in
quality. But sure, the weight is much less and they do not have to
work
overtime. Just bear in mind, the additional cut-outs in the front of the
hood
increase the amount of air underneight and will start to lift the hood
in the
rear. This is why some slits in the rear would be the best
solution.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our
web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Dec 9 02:18:29 1999
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From:
"3000gtvr4" <gtovr4@postalzone.com>
To: "David
Chen" <neubine@ix.netcom.com>,
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Carbon Fiber
Hood
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 02:21:07 -0800
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Hi David,
I saw your hood...very interesting indeed. I have
not seen one quite like this.
Where did u get it from? I mean which company
and can it be obtained in the US.
Hope it is not one of those abflug kits -
that means it is time to go to Japan.
:)
The vents on the hood are
shaped different from the one at gtpro. Btw, is that
front bumper a bozzspeed
front bumper or did u mold the front lip to the stock
bumper? :) Just
curious.
Thanks
Julian Ng
94 Veilside
GTO
gtovr4@postalzone.com
-----Original Message-----
From: David
Chen <neubine@ix.netcom.com>
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 08, 1999
11:37 PM
Subject: Team3S: Carbon Fiber Hood
>Hi
everyone,
>
> Just letting everyone know I got a
new Carbon Fiber hood (NOT the
>GT-PRO one) a better one... Anyways I have
pics before I paint it and
>you guy can check it
out.
>
>www.netcom.com/~neubine/
>
>David
Chen
>Neubine@ix.netcom.com
>
>For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Dec 9 06:41:48 1999
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From: "Robert
Jerome Mengler" <RMENGLER@statoil.com>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Message-ID:
<41256842.0050AFE1.00@stfo-lnsmtp.statoil.no>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999
08:41:10 +0100
Subject: Team3S: FrontWheelDrive: Taking off tooQuickly In
1st?WHEEL-HOP
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Well guys, I
really didn't see any replies to my previous post
(.......standard
transmission '94 3000gtSL ...... sometimes give the car
too much gas
and the front tires slip in first gear. Lately, I have
noticed a
chunk-chunk-chunk (maybe 3-5 times in quick succession) deep
sound (for lack
of a better word) coming from the front tires which I am
hoping is just the
tires grabbing, then not grabbing, then grabbing, etc.
until traction is good
and the sound goes away. I noticed a similar sound
though,
backing off the end of my driveway this morning, almost like a
shock
bottoming out or something. It only clunked once obviously
while
backing off the slight curve from my sloping driveway. I am
wondering with
only 64,000 miles if it is possible that struts and/or shocks
could be worn
at this stage. Loose CV boots????? But
could the chunk-chunk-chunk
occasional noise upon quick acceleration in 1st
gear described above really
be related to shocks or struts??) other
than this is the standard term
called WHEEL HOP. I noticed someone else
on the list is experiencing this
same problem at 64,000 miles too so I guess
I can deduce I may need new
struts?????????? Than I must decide whether
to go stock or upgrade and I
will need something with the ECS
capabilities. So, I guess I will read
previous posts on strut
upgrades for the N/A 3000gt but I wish you all had
an index file for archives
where we could search title/headers for key
words.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Dec 9 07:10:04 1999
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From:
"Darcy Gunnlaugson" <wce@telus.net>
To: "Team3S"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Re: Struts-was Front
Wheel Drive: Taking off too quickly
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:08:16
-0800
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bulk
Hi Bob;
Sounds like you need new struts ( BTW I believe it
was Ken who posted and
suggested the
same). If they are problematic at
this point, given your quoted mileage,
then they have seen "some
use" (are you sure your Speedo reflects accurate
mileage?) If the
mileage is accurate then you should have the alignment and
suspension checked
as well at a "reputable" shop. They can check for the
source of the
clunking while they are at it. There is no reason except a
continuous rough
road, or maybe hard circuit racing, for struts to go with
these low
miles. And, to retain ECS you will have to go with OEM
replacements. I
believe Barry went with Gabriels and says the improvement is
so great that
the loss of ECS is a worthwhile tradeoff. Maybe he can offer
some insight
(again;-) into their handling characteristics as compared
to
OEM.
BEst
Darc
snip
>Well guys, I really
didn't see any replies to my previous post
>(.......standard transmission
'94 3000gtSL ...... sometimes give the car
>too much gas and the
front tires slip in first gear. Lately, I have
>noticed a
chunk-chunk-chunk (maybe 3-5 times in quick succession)
.....
snip
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Dec 9 07:44:26 1999
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Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 09:39:42 -0600
To: <beking@home.com>,
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
From: Merritt
<merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Vr-4
launching
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The fastest time
I ever recorded with my stock VR4 on a G-Tech was 5.5 0-60
and 13.5 @105, IN
THE RAIN!
Well, it had rained a little while ago, and the street was
still damp, so I
could easily spin all four tires without a high rpm clutch
dump. With the
tires spinning, the little sucker LAUNCHED out of the hole
like a rocket ship.
Ever since, I've wondered if perhaps applying a
little water or bleach to
the tires prior to a launch might help out. It
would let me get a good
launch without having to do destroy my clutch and
Getrag in the process.
I have water running to my front brake rotors, so
it would be a piece of
cake to move the hoses so they squirt onto the tire
tread instead. It
would be no trouble to run hoses to the back.
Ideas, anyone?
Rich/old poop/94 VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Dec 9 07:55:08 1999
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Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 09:53:59 -0600
To: "Robert Jerome
Mengler"
<RMENGLER@statoil.com>,
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
From: Merritt
<merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: FrontWheelDrive: Taking
off tooQuickly In
1st?WHEEL-HOP
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>
Lately, I have
>noticed a chunk-chunk-chunk (maybe 3-5 times in quick
succession) deep
>sound (for lack of a better word) coming from the front
tires which I am
>hoping is just the tires grabbing
I heard the
same thing coming from my front wheels the other day. Turns out
that I had
been interrupted by my neighbor whilst changing back to street
tires (Hey
Rich, whatchadoon?), and I forgot to torque down the front lugs.
Actually, I
forgot to tighten them at all. So when I heard all these nastly
clicks and
clanks coming from the front, it dawned on me what was wrong.
I
tightened everything up and all the noise went away.
That's a long
way of telling you to check your lug nuts.
Rich/old poop/94
VR4/nuts!
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Dec 9 08:35:25 1999
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From: "Bob
Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
To: "Robert Jerome Mengler"
<RMENGLER@statoil.com>,
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Cc: "Wallis, Gavin"
<WallisG@MWAA.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: FrontWheelDrive: Taking off
tooQuickly In 1st?WHEEL-HOP
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:22:40
-0800
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-----Original Message-----From: Robert Jerome
Mengler
<RMENGLER@statoil.com>
----------snip----------
>noticed
a chunk-chunk-chunk (maybe 3-5 times in quick succession)
deep
>sound
(for lack of a better word) coming from the front tires which
I
am
>hoping is just the tires grabbing, then not grabbing,
then
grabbing, etc.
If you're in a hurry at the times you notice this,
especially if the
road is wet from "morning dew" or if it's
uneven..., a little
"hopping" sounds pretty normal. Remember
that a quick take-off in a
FWD car shifts the weight to the back and off the
front tires.
Hopefully, the "chunk-ing" sound is caused only by
underinflated
tires or an irregular surface...
>until traction
is good and the sound goes away. I noticed a
similar
sound
>though, backing off the end of my driveway this morning,
almost
like a
>shock bottoming out or something. It only clunked
once obviously
while
>backing off the slight curve from my sloping
driveway.
------------snip-------------
That noise could easily be
from the play in the brakes being applied
in reverse- you'll get a matching
one the first braking you do going
forward right after that,
too...
>will need something with the ECS capabilities.
So, I guess I will
read
>previous posts on strut upgrades for the N/A
3000gt but I wish you
all had
>an index file for archives where we
could search title/headers for
key
>words.
Excuse me?
"You all" is "we all", ...we're all owner-members
just
like you. The Team3S Admins (with assistance from other
member
volunteers, notably an Herculean effort by Gavin Wallis) have
been
putting together a FAQ section for our upcoming new website for
the
better part of 6 months. Perhaps the FAQ would happen faster if
you
would care to volunteer? :-)
The archives have been
available since "day 1". They are (and have
always been)
searchable by keyword, explained on the Archive
Page...
Regards,
Forrest '94 Stealth
NT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Dec 9 08:54:27 1999
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To:
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Subject: RE: Team3S: FrontWheelDrive: Taking
off tooQuickly In 1st?WHEEL-H
OP
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:54:15 -0600
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> I am
wondering with only 64,000 miles if it is possible that struts
> and/or
shocks could be worn at this stage. Loose CV boots?????
> But
could the chunk-chunk-chunk occasional noise upon quick
> acceleration in
1st gear described above really be related to
> shocks or struts??)
other than this is the standard term
> called WHEEL HOP.
Most
likely struts. In this sort of case, there's really no replacement for
jacking up the car and getting your hands dirty. Check the strut mounts
and make sure everything is tight. Verify that any bushings on the
suspension components are okay (not cracked or falling out of their
locations). If you take the struts off the car, you should be able to
compress/uncompress them by hand with much resistance the whole
stroke.
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Thu Dec 9 17:01:57 1999
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Reply-To: <beking@home.com>
From:
"Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Vr-4
launching
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:02:40 -0700
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Precedence: bulk
I managed a 4.9
(G-Tech) when stock, and a 4.6 (G-Tech) with 16 psi and
standard bolt-on
mods. I did get a 4.2 once with basic mods but could
not
reproduce it so I do not know how accurate it was or if it was just
me.
I have not had a satisfactory G-Tech run since the first round of
major mods
due to an ailing clutch, and this round of mods isn't measurable
yet due to
a chronic lack of self-motivation.
I know from street drags
before the engine blew that it is squarely in 911TT
AWD territory, perhaps
beyond, and well beyond 'vettes and Vipers and that
lot.
Anyway, I
really don't think you need to induce wheelspin with the VR4
using
water. Just don't do a burnout (if at the track), and launch
hard. With
mods, you'll have enough HP to be concerned about too much
wheelspin, even
with the AWD advantage.
Barry
>
-----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Merritt
> Sent:
Thursday, December 09, 1999 8:40 AM
> To: beking@home.com;
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Vr-4
launching
>
>
> The fastest time I ever recorded with my stock
VR4 on a G-Tech
> was 5.5 0-60
> and 13.5 @105, IN THE
RAIN!
>
> Well, it had rained a little while ago, and the street was
still
> damp, so I
> could easily spin all four tires without a high
rpm clutch dump. With the
> tires spinning, the little sucker LAUNCHED out
of the hole like a
> rocket ship.
>
> Ever since, I've
wondered if perhaps applying a little water or bleach to
> the tires prior
to a launch might help out. It would let me get a good
> launch without
having to do destroy my clutch and Getrag in the process.
>
> I have
water running to my front brake rotors, so it would be a piece of
> cake
to move the hoses so they squirt onto the tire tread instead. It
>
would be no trouble to run hoses to the back.
>
> Ideas,
anyone?
>
> Rich/old poop/94 VR4
> For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is
>
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 19:42:05
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From: "Trevor L. James"
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To:
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Subject: Team3S: Boost Conversions
AGAIN...
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<6C09D9B03136D311839800902762696501312050@EXCHANGE1>
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I know that we
go over this all to often. I'll try to be brief. I own a HKS EVC IV. It displays
boost in kg/cm². I want to run 15 psi (max on pump gas with stock fuel and
turbos). I was under the impression that 1 kg/cm²=1 bar=14.5 psi. I was
running 1.00 kg/cm² because the next step up (1.05 kg/cm²) would have
been 15.225psi. This
site:
http://www.webcom.com/legacysy/convert2/convert2.html
shows 1.00
kg/cm²=14.22psi. If this true I can run 1.05 kg/cm² because it's
approximately 14.94psi. Anyone know if 1.00kg/cm² REALLY equals
14.22psi?
Trevor James
96 R/T TT
12.86@107.2
12.68@111.4 0-60
4.14 Gtech
92 GMC Typhoon
13.90@97.8 0-60 5.09 Gtech
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Dec 9 17:48:31 1999
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From: Matt
Jannusch <MAJ@BigCharts.com>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Boost Conversions
AGAIN...
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:48:18 -0600
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> I know that we go over this all to often. I'll try to be
> brief. I own a HKS EVC IV. It displays boost in kg/cm². I
>
want to run 15 psi (max on pump gas with stock fuel and
> turbos). I was
under the impression that 1 kg/cm²=1 bar=14.5
> psi. I was running
1.00 kg/cm² because the next step up (1.05
> kg/cm²) would have
been 15.225psi. This site:
>
http://www.webcom.com/legacysy/convert2/convert2.html
> shows 1.00
kg/cm²=14.22psi. If this true I can run 1.05
> kg/cm² because
it's approximately 14.94psi. Anyone know if
> 1.00kg/cm² REALLY
equals 14.22psi?
The website conversion is correct. 1.0 kg/cm2 does
not equal 1.0 bar.
-Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Dec 9 17:51:37 1999
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From: "Jim
Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
To: <jczoom@iname.com>,
"Stealth-3000GT" <stealth-3000GT@list.sirius.com>
Cc:
"Bryan Schwieg"
<schwieg@ibm.net>,
"Brad Bedell BIG BRAKES" <bbedell@austin.rr.com>
References:
<01BF3F49.BA9EE040@slip166-72-78-39.ga.us.prserv.net>
<384E6EA4.74697DA6@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Re: Adventure in
braking
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 17:47:51 -0800
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bulk
I have a set of Brads calipers on my 93TT stealth ---- I do NOT run
it
with stock rims, I have a set of 94 chrome rims and have no
clearance
problems. When installing the brakes I installed one of my stock
17"
stealth rims --- it fit but just barely. At one point the clearance
is about
.020 of an inch. I have some pics but they don't show the problem
very
well. I can email the pictures if you'r
interested.
Jim
Berry
===================================================
> >
Hello John,
> > I was reading a post you wrote about Brad's big brakes
and the use of stock rims. I'm looking to
get his brakes, but would like to
use my stock '92 stealth rims. Brad says they won't work.
> ---> Brad
is correct, they will not work as is.
>
> Are you saying they
will if you use supra rotors? Please elaborate,
> what do I have to mod?
The wheels? rotors?
> --->You would have to machine away some of the
weld metal and part of
> the spoke and part of the inner diameter of the
rim. Its safer and
> easier to buy new/used rims. I'd never
try modifying a rim for safety
> reasons because I run road
courses.
>
> In order to fit the Supra rotors properly, you must
machine away some of
> the thin pilot diameter so the rotor fits flat
against the TT hub. Its
> a simple process, IF you have a BIG
lathe.
>
> If you have a lathe big enough to turn away enough stock
of the rim to
> provide clearance, then cutting the inner hat of the rotor
will be a
> piece of cake.
>
> Good luck.
>
> John
Christian
>
>
>
> > Thanks for your help,
>
> Bryan
>
> --
> JCZoooM 93 TT
12.46@109Mph Now with Porsche brakes
> Email--->
JCZooM@iname.com
> http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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Date: Thu,
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From: David Chen
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To: Stealth List
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Carbon Fiber Hood
Update
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Hi
everyone,
To answer some questions that people have
been sending me.
1. The Hood is a carbon fiber hood. If you look closely
at the close
pictures and the back pictures of the hood you can see that the
material
is black and is carbon fiber. Japanese companies pre-prime
everything
they have for you. (Smart ehhh....) So that people would only have
to
wet sand and spray on a thin layer of primer. If you look at the
picture
mislabeled as backlatch.jpg, It's actually the back of the scoop.
you
can see the carbon fiber there.
2. The vents are designed as a
vacum hood. If you look at pictures of a
Lancer it works on the same concept.
The hood acts like a vacum, drawing
hot air from inside the engine. The
air scoop on the passanger side is
designed to scoop air. (Duh) =). Also the
front has a little dam that
prevent air from entering and keeps air from
going into the back of the
hood. Also the scoop was also taken from the
Lancer. The scoop cutout
was taken from the lancer and dropped right into the
hood.
3. To keep dirt and pedestrians out (midget ones) there are screens
that
come with the hood that are supposed to go under the hood. To keep
water
out you put the car in a garage.... =)
4. The hood acroding
to a bathroom scale.... is about 18 lbs... a little
heavier than the
GT-Pro Hood but it's got a carbon fiber renforement on
the bottom that is BTW
molded from the stock hood and modified. It even
includes little holes for
the window washer nozzles. NEAT!
5. Yes... I used to have big wing in the
back... but sadly i sold it and
I bought a 99 VR-4 wing...
YEAH!
6. The front bumper is a Bozz Speed Front lip that I molded onto
the
bumper.
7. Also the latch is a stock latch that has been carbon
fibered and
glued onto the hood.
8. Now the painful part..... no it's
not AB-FLUG... it's Bozz
Speed...... So yes you will have to order from
overseas... however Bozz
Performance out of Fremont can get them for you...
But again anything
shipped over from Japan will cost you, an arm, a leg, a
kidney, and the
kitchen sink. Retail price is about $1400 +Shipping and Tax
if you live
in CA. (!!!YOUCH!!!)
9. I have driven the car with the
hood on, to the body shop, and so far
I can see a little difference, the car
feels a little more responsive
with the throttle, but otherwise the good news
is that IT WORKS..... It
didn't fly off, buckle, or shake rattle, and roll.
hehehe And this is at
95 MPH..... =) ah hem... i mean, the safe.....
speed limit...... of
65.....
P.S. Hopefully my car will all be
painted, with a system and have a body
kit by FEB of 2000, that is unless
that world ends and everyone dies...
on Jan 1 =P But finally I'll have a car
that can beat those stupid
eclipses in the Mitsu Class at shows....... I HATE
DSM.... exceptions
goes out to those GS-T and GSXers
respectfully....
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Thu
Dec 9 19:48:54 1999
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Subject: Re:
Team3S: Vr-4 launching
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:15:36 -0800
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I was thinking about using narrow/bald tires for the same
pupose.
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Dec 10 06:06:38 1999
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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:56:10
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From: "R.G." <robby@swissonline.ch>
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To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: Boost Conversions
AGAIN...
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Yes, Matt (and
the website) is correct !
This are the figures I'm using :
1,00
bar = 1,019716213 kg/cm2 = 14,50377377 psi
1,00 kg/cm2 = 0,980665 bar =
14,22334331 psi
1,00 psi = 0,06894757293 bar = 0,07030695796
kg/cm2
> The website conversion is correct. 1.0 kg/cm2 does not
equal 1.0 bar.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
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To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Boost Conversions AGAIN...
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Yes, Matt (and
the website) is correct !
This are the figures I'm using :
1,00
bar = 1,019716213 kg/cm2 = 14,50377377 psi
1,00 kg/cm2 = 0,980665 bar =
14,22334331 psi
1,00 psi = 0,06894757293 bar = 0,07030695796
kg/cm2
> The website conversion is correct. 1.0 kg/cm2 does not
equal 1.0 bar.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Dec 10 07:51:43 1999
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From:
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Subject: Team3S: EGT meter
Date:
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Hi
I'm looking for an EGT meter, I want feedback regarding
brand, quality and
price.
What's best, digital or analog?
Also,
is the best location in the rear exhaust manifold? What temperature
can I
expect in the rear exhaust?
Best regards
Mikael Akesson
http://www.3000gt.nu
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From owner-stealth-3000gt
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From: Ryan Southwick
<Ryan.Southwick@cmshartzell.com>
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Subject: RE: Team3S: Shocks.
Date: Fri, 10
Dec 1999 11:04:23 -0500
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Hello;
I have heard several conversations on
shocks. What does everyone prefer for
replacements. I currently
own a 91 VR-4.
Cheers,
Ryan
For subscribe/unsubscribe
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Dec 10 08:05:22 1999
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Reply-To: <beking@home.com>
From:
"Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Shocks.
Date:
Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:05:49 -0700
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GABs, no
question.
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Ryan Southwick
>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 9:04 AM
> To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Shocks.
>
>
>
> Hello;
>
> I have heard several
conversations on shocks. What does everyone
> prefer for
>
replacements. I currently own a 91 VR-4.
> Cheers,
>
Ryan
>
>
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
> For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
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From
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From:
"Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
To:
"'beking@home.com'" <beking@home.com>,
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Shocks.
Date: Fri, 10
Dec 1999 08:15:06 -0800
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What do these
cost?
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry E. King
[mailto:beking@home.com]
Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 8:06 AM
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE: Team3S: Shocks.
GABs,
no question.
Barry
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Ryan Southwick
>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 9:04 AM
> To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Shocks.
>
>
>
> Hello;
>
> I have heard several
conversations on shocks. What does everyone
> prefer for
>
replacements. I currently own a 91 VR-4.
> Cheers,
>
Ryan
>
>
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is
> http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
> For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Dec 10 11:52:50 1999
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From: George Kuo
<amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Shocks.
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Hi All,
I think I'll be swaping out my stock shocks
pretty
soon too.. 92K original miles!! Just wondering if
there are other
alternatives besides GABs and the new
TEINs?? Thanx for any
info..
George
Irvine, CA
--- "Barry E. King"
<beking@home.com> wrote:
> GABs, no question.
>
>
> Barry
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
From: owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> >
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On
> Behalf Of Ryan
Southwick
> > Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 9:04 AM
> > To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> > Subject: RE: Team3S: Shocks.
>
>
> >
> >
> > Hello;
> >
> >
I have heard several conversations on shocks.
> What does everyone
> > prefer for
> > replacements. I currently own a 91
VR-4.
> > Cheers,
> > Ryan
> >
> >
> >
> > For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
> > http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
> > For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
> >
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
> >
> For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>
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>
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one
place.
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Dec 10 13:23:33 1999
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From: "nketo"
<nketo@accglobal.net>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: clutch
MATERIALS
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 07:18:38 -0800
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Hey everyone,
I was wondering if any of you know the
thermal/physical characteristics of
KEVLAR vs. CEREMIC clutches?
I'm
interested in the technical details; I know people like one over
the
other,
but I'd like to know about wear, high-temp stability, glazing,
holding
power, etc., that each
has over the other.
Any input would
be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
-Noble
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Dec 10 13:29:06 1999
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From: "Brad
Younkman" <stealth@digitalexp.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Crankshaft
pulley
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:28:19 -0500
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Can anyone give me some advice on how to change the
crankshaft pulley. =
Where can I get a tool like manual shows or is there
another way to get =
it off? Thanks
Brad Younkman
91 Stealth RT
TT
#078
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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Can anyone give me some
advice on how to change the =
crankshaft=20
pulley. Where can I get a tool
like manual shows or is there another way =
to get=20
it off?
Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D2>Brad Younkman</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT
size=3D2></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>91 Stealth
RT=20
TT</FONT></DIV>
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Dec 10 14:00:20 1999
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From: "Robert
Jerome Mengler" <RMENGLER@statoil.com>
To:
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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999
15:59:45 +0100
Subject: Summary: Re: Team3S: FrontWheelDrive: Taking off
tooQuickly In
1st?WHEEL-HOP
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Thanks Bob and
all for the help on the "wheel-hop". The car seems
real
"new" mechanically, I inflated the car to specks a couple of
months ago (I
should probably check them again), the lug nuts are tight and I
would say
it only has 64000 original miles. I am hard on cars,
that is true, and it
may be having it's noticeable toe with my excessive
quick starts, I'll just
have to chill and I may get another 10-20000 miles on
the struts or
whatever other front-end parts that are loosening
up. I will inspect the
front-end parts (motor mounts too) for
signs of wear, etc. and maybe take
it in if things look questionable or
get worse. If anyone sees better
alternatives to this
"solution", please let me know.
As for the
archives, my emailer apparently automatically extracts the
archive files
because they do not show up as true ZIP files when I bring up
my email.
Of course I know I can search these entire files with any text
editor and it
does help to have them by month, but for some reason these
retrieved zip
files and the digest version coming to me each day does not
have the
"table of contents" at the beginning of the digest file.
The
Buick turbo list offers an additional INDEX file of all Subject lines
and
email dates stripped off from every email from the history of the
list.
This ZIP file (updated monthly) could be brought over to our pcs from
the
archives area and used in a text editor to search for the subjects/dates
so
that we would know which archive to retrieve the key subject of
interest
from. I suggested this and some other things months ago when
someone posed
the question of ideas for FAQS, etc. and would be glad to dig
it up. In
fact, I am thinking maybe this is not pertient info to
everybody on the
list Bob, because I believe it was requested then too that I
email him
directly. So, I apologize again if I have rambled
on. Hope that helps
clarify.
Bob
1994 Mitusbishi 3000gt
SL, standard transmission, 164000 miles and on the
way now to take us to our
Christmas Party
"Bob Forrest"
<bf@bobforrest.com> on 12/09/99 05:22:40 PM
To:
Robert Jerome Mengler, stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
cc:
"Wallis, Gavin" <WallisG@MWAA.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
FrontWheelDrive: Taking off tooQuickly
In
1st?WHEEL-HOP
-----Original Message-----From: Robert Jerome
Mengler
<RMENGLER@statoil.com>
----------snip----------
>noticed
a chunk-chunk-chunk (maybe 3-5 times in quick succession)
deep
>sound
(for lack of a better word) coming from the front tires which
I
am
>hoping is just the tires grabbing, then not grabbing,
then
grabbing, etc.
If you're in a hurry at the times you notice this,
especially if the
road is wet from "morning dew" or if it's
uneven..., a little
"hopping" sounds pretty
normal.<snip>
*********yes, it is intermittent but possibly more
noticeable*********
>until traction is good and the sound goes
away. I noticed a
similar sound
>though, backing off the
end of my driveway this morning, almost
like a
>shock bottoming out or
something. It only clunked once obviously
while
>backing off the
slight curve from my sloping
driveway.
------------snip-------------
That noise could easily be
from the play in the brakes being applied
in reverse- you'll get a matching
one the first braking you do going
forward right after that,
too...
>will need something with the ECS capabilities.
So, I guess I will
read
>previous posts on strut upgrades for the N/A
3000gt but I wish you
all had
>an index file for archives where we
could search title/headers for
key
>words.
Excuse me?
"You all" is "we all", ...we're all owner-members
just
like you. The Team3S Admins (with assistance from other
member
volunteers, notably an Herculean effort by Gavin Wallis) have
been
putting together a FAQ section for our upcoming new website for
the
better part of 6 months. Perhaps the FAQ would happen faster if
you
would care to volunteer? :-)
The archives have been
available since "day 1". They are (and have
always been)
searchable by keyword, explained on the Archive
Page...
Regards,
Forrest '94 Stealth
NT
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web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Dec 10 15:17:00 1999
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From:
"3000gtvr4" <gtovr4@postalzone.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Predator (odyssey)
Battery Black Panther
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:19:40 -0800
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Hi everyone,
I managed to locate the person and company which
sells the Predator battery.
According to the person I spoke to, it is no
longer called the Predator but
Odyssey battery.
Here's some info for
those who are interested in this light weight battery:
They are located
in Ontario, Canada.
URL: www.absolutebattery.com
Crischell Automotive
Products, LLC.
Guy's name is Arold or Harold and the number is
1-877-549-4454
Julian Ng
94 Pearl White Veilside
GTO
gtovr4@postalzone.com
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Fri Dec 10 16:46:08 1999
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From: "Vineet Singh"
<billi_gates@hotmail.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Carbon Fibre
(precautions)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:46:03 -0600
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That Bozz speed hood looks pretty cool. I will assume the vents up
top are
functional, but only really work for the front turbo area. A way to
cool
down the rear turbo's heat would be nice too!
About the primer on
carbon fiber. THIS IS NECESSARY to the best of my
knowledge. I have done
quite a bit of fiberglass work on my other cars, and
up until about 2 years
ago, there wasn't a commercially available
gelcoat/topcoat that lasted more
than a year or two under UV radiation.
What does this mean? Well from
what I know, the top layer in a carbon fiber
construction is a high quality
epoxy type material. Then you lay the fiber
material down with regular epoxy
as the "adhesive". If the top surface is
exposed to the sun (UV),
it starts to break down the molecular structure
that makes it what it is. It
will loose luster, turn yellow, have little
cracks, and soon start
delaminating.
The only way I know of to protect carbon fiber from this
unfortunate
situation is to prime and paint it just like any other material
(except for
SS :). I know this pisses people off, but don't say I didn't warn
you! :)
I COULD be wrong, maybe they do have a UV proof topcoat now, in
that case,
just read the first paragraph, and skip the rest (oops too late
:)
Vineet Singh
Manuals On CD - http://manualcd.dsm.org
Club DSM
A/T - http://at.dsm.org - "Never Lift To Shift!"
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Dec 10 17:02:46 1999
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From: "Kyle
Meyer" <kyle@logicaldirection.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Shocks: (GAB -
Price/Dealers)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 19:06:33 -0600
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Does anyone know
of a reliable, cheap dealer to get them from as well? I
have a '92 R/T NT
that is _badly_ in need of some new front shocks...
-Kyle
>
-----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
>
[mailto:owner-stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com]On Behalf Of Mohler, Jeff
>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 10:15 AM
> To: 'beking@home.com';
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: RE: Team3S:
Shocks.
>
>
> What do these cost? [GAB Shocks]
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Dec 10 17:24:47 1999
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From:
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To: "3000gtvr4"
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<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
References:
<005401bf4365$0a294d20$aa44e4d8@oemcomputer>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Predator (odyssey) Battery Black Panther
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 19:23:02
-0600
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You can but the Odyssey battery from Jegs as
well.
Oskar
'95 R/T TT
> I managed to locate the person and
company which sells the Predator
battery.
> According to the person I
spoke to, it is no longer called the Predator
but
> Odyssey
battery.
>
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Fri
Dec 10 17:31:46 1999
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From: "Bob
Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
To: "Robert Jerome Mengler"
<RMENGLER@statoil.com>,
"Team3S" <stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Searchable Archives (was:FWD-TakingOff 2Quickly-WHEEL-HOP)
Date: Fri, 10 Dec
1999 17:28:51 -0800
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-----Original
Message-----From: Robert Jerome
Mengler
<RMENGLER@statoil.com>
---------------snip-----------------
>
As for the archives, my emailer apparently automatically
extracts
the
>archive files because they do not show up as true ZIP files when
I
bring up
>my email. Of course I know I can search these entire
files with
any text
>editor and it does help to have them by month, but
for some reason
these
>retrieved zip files and the digest version
coming to me each day
does not
>have the "table of contents"
at the beginning of the digest file.
The
>Buick turbo list offers an
additional INDEX file of all Subject
lines and
>email dates stripped
off from every email from the history of the
list.
>This ZIP file
(updated monthly) could be brought over to our pcs
from the
>archives
area and used in a text editor to search for the
subjects/dates
so
>that we would know which archive to retrieve the key subject
of
interest
>from. I suggested this and some other things months
ago when
someone posed
>the question of ideas for FAQS, etc. and would
be glad to dig it
up. In
>fact, I am thinking maybe this is not
pertient info to everybody on
the
>list Bob, because I believe it was
requested then too that I email
him
>directly. So, I
apologize again if I have rambled on. Hope
that
helps
>clarify.
Your emailer is a proprietary in-line
business variety, and as such,
it will do what the MIS guys at your company,
Statoil, tell it to
do... So we have no control there. But it's
probably equally
clumsy for the rest of us with other browsers & email
clients. We
currently have no control over what our Majordomo software
does when
it saves our archives. There are no choices, so I don't
follow what
you don't understand. As I've said before, when we were a
small
list, it was possible to play with them and save them in a
slightly
different format, but now it's automatic. Suggesting that we
need
an index is suggesting that 'someone else' make one!?
That Buick
drivers have a certain kind of archive is irrelevant, and
academic, for our
purposes. We all know that there are better ways
to do everything, but
until some member with copious free time steps
up and says, "I'll do
it", and chooses to invest their personal time
on such a project,
nothing changes. BTW... It's also a pretty good
bet that there
are a lot fewer professionals on some Buick list than
there are at
Team3S. Many folks on this list who drive Stealths and
3000GTs are
business leaders (present or future), executives,
self-employed, supertechs,
etc, with a minimum of free time...
Could it be that Buick drivers have more
free time? :-) Except for
the Grand Nationals, I personally don't
even know anyone who drives
a Buick... or why... ;-)
To
finish answering your question... I still don't know all the
details,
but we'll be moving the Team3S list, and our (old AND new)
Web Pages
(including FAQ) to a faster, better server by the end of
the year. We
will still be using the best software out there (which
happens to be
Majordomo), but from what I understand, we will
probably have a more
Web-based archive, possibly of the variety that
you prefer. And
hopefully with an interface that's easier for all
of us to use for
searches. And it's going to happen because one of
the
Team3S
members, Jeff Mohler, stepped up and offered his expertise
and his resources
to give us a better medium through which we can
share information. And
if we still need an index list with the new
setup, we would be happy to
accept you as a volunteer to make one
up! :-)
Anyone with
non-tecnical suggestions or comments should reply
privately,
please...
Best,
Forrest
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Dec 14 10:37:35 1999
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To:
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Subject: RE: Team3S: what happens to ECS if
you do w/non-oem shocks?
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 07:37:02
+1300
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or you can
simply remove the ECS light bulb from the dash console., it takes
about 5
mins to remove and reinstall.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim
Berry [mailto:fastmax@home.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 14 December 1999 7:13
To:
kyle@logicaldirection.com; Nick Xiong
Cc:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: what happens to ECS if
you do w/non-oem shocks?
As Barry said, you get the light --- I
disconnected the control
module in the right rear trunk area and the light
went away.
I checked the schematics first, it has a bunch of inputs
and
only the shocks as outputs so no side effects were
seen.
Jim
Berry
=============================================
> what
happens to ECS if you do w/non-oem shocks?
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Dec 14 11:30:21 1999
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From: "Bob
Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
To: "Team3S"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: Admin Notice: List
problems - PLEASE read...
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:27:54
-0800
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Hey, all,
Apologies for the list stumbling over the last few
days... Our ISP
is in a state of confusion while they are installing
new servers and
reconfiguring their entire system. The Team3S list has
been down
for two consecutive nights and sporadic outages during the days
as
well. This is a similar "hiccup" to what we experienced
over the
Thanksgiving weekend. You may find that posts are coming in
out of
order or that the server has "eaten" one of your posts and
it
doesn't show up at all. There are myriad problems that may
occur
during this period, the worst of which is that the list may well
go
down again for an hour or for a day... I figured I'd better
squeeze
a note out to you all before that happens. :-)
The
admins are on the case (except for Darcy, whose entire telco is
down until
12/17!), and we'll keep you updated as we learn more
about the current
situation. Please don't send "test posts" to the
list--
you'll either see messages or you won't. And we'll be
through all of it
soon.
This has happened just a few days too soon, since we're just
about
to move the list elsewhere. Our ISP, Sirius.com, got gobbled up
by
a bigger fish, FirstWorld.com, and went from "The Best in the
Bay
Area" to "the worst on the West Coast" as a result of the
'merger'.
We'll be implementing a new system on another server with an
easier
and more organized way of accessing the archives via web
pages.
We'll have the past subjects indexed, and much better
search
capabilities. And we've already begun testing the new website;
with
any luck, the entire thing will come together as a new and
much
better setup on or before the new millenium begins. Stay
tuned...
Thanks to all for your patience, and for not drowning me with
email!
One fortunate thing is that list traffic is usually very low
this
time of year, with most folks involved with plans for the
holidays
with family and friends. Hopefully you are too. My email
has also
been 'down' as much as it's been 'up' over the last couple of
days,
so if I don't reply right away to your note, you'll know
why...
Best to all,
Forrest
for the Admins...
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Dec 14 11:38:44 1999
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To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: what happens to ECS if you do
w/non-oem shocks?
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:38:13 +1300
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thats your
problem right there you dont need a wrench only a phillips head
screwdriver,
theres 2 screws which hold the facia on and 2 or four screws
which hold that
actual speedo in place, then you just pull it forward and it
comes
out.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Berry
[mailto:fastmax@home.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 15 December 1999 8:32
To: Judd,
Ryan - Axon AKL
Subject: Re: Team3S: what happens to ECS if you do w/non-oem
shocks?
I'm pretty handy with a wrench and I'd be hard pressed to
remove the
instrument cluster and reinstall it in 5 min ---- try 1/2 hour if
you know
what you're doing.
Jim
Berry
===========================================
> or
you can simply remove the ECS light bulb from the dash console.,
it
takes
> about 5 mins to remove and reinstall.
>
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Dec 14 12:14:00 1999
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Subject: Team3S: What's that exhaust
again?
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I found a Y
exhaust pipe in a catalog that goes from a 3 in. inlet pipe to
two 2-1/2 in.
pipes. I thought I might fab up a rear exhaust with it, going
from the Y to
two 2-1/2 in. straight-through glass pack mufflers.
But I thought I'd
better check with the wizards on the list first before I
get myself into
trouble:
1. Is the pipe from the main cat back a 3-in.
pipe?
2. If I split it into two 2-1/2 in. pipes, it will not cause
more
restriction, correct? (I recall recent calculations here a few days
ago
that seemed to indicate I will be allright)
3. The biggest
problem seems to be fitting a muffler on the passenger
side. Has anyone found
a glasspack that fits nicely in there? If so, what
size? Who makes it?
How loud?
All advice and guidance will be greatly
appreciated.
Rich/old poop/94 VR4/gettin' LOUD
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Dec 14 13:26:12 1999
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From:
Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
To: "'Merritt'"
<merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Cc:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com,
"'Errin Humprhrey'"
<errin@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: What's that exhaust again?
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:24:52
-0800
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Rich...
I
don't think this will work. The output from the stock cat is 2.5"
(maybe
even 2.25"). I know of one listmember (Errin Humphrey) who has a
2.5" dual
exhaust, but it's actually a dual from the precats back. He
did the math and
it actually flows more air than the more common 3"
single pipe. I'm not sure
if he has any muffler at all (Errin, are you out
there?) but it sounds quite
nice. My concern with this approach is weight.
When I pulled my stock
exhaust, it was VERY heavy (I wish I had weighed it
before it hit the scrap
heap). The GReddy, which eliminates the stock
crossover by the trunk is
lighter, but still heavy. I removed it finally and
added a single Flowmaster
muffler to the end of the downpipe. I think this is
as light as I can hope
to get. Yes, it's louder than stock, but heck...I just
turn up the stereo
and go faster so the sound is blown behind me.
:-)
Looking forward...Chris
-----Original Message-----
From:
Merritt [mailto:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 1999
12:13 PM
To: stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Team3S: What's that
exhaust again?
I found a Y exhaust pipe in a catalog that goes from a
3 in. inlet pipe to
two 2-1/2 in. pipes. I thought I might fab up a rear
exhaust with it, going
from the Y to two 2-1/2 in. straight-through glass
pack mufflers.
But I thought I'd better check with the wizards on the
list first before I
get myself into trouble:
1. Is the pipe from
the main cat back a 3-in. pipe?
2. If I split it into two 2-1/2 in.
pipes, it will not cause more
restriction, correct? (I recall recent
calculations here a few days ago
that seemed to indicate I will be
allright)
3. The biggest problem seems to be fitting a muffler on the
passenger
side. Has anyone found a glasspack that fits nicely in there?
If so, what
size? Who makes it? How loud?
All advice and guidance will
be greatly appreciated.
Rich/old poop/94 VR4/gettin' LOUD
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From
owner-stealth-3000gt Tue Dec 14 14:42:40 1999
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From:
"Mohler, Jeff" <jeff.mohler@netapp.com>
To: "'3s'"
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: Team3S: ECS Struts
Date:
Tue, 14 Dec 1999 14:46:22 -0800
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Anybody have a
set of GOOD working ECS struts they're not planning to use?
Im
considering those (in sport mode) as an upgrade, if only to keep my
kidneys
intact for when we do a spring/coilover upgrade next
spring.
Thanks
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Tue
Dec 14 16:22:26 1999
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From:
"Kevin" <Kevin@pacarsearch.com>
To:
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>, "Merritt"
<merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
References:
<3.0.5.32.19991214141306.008055a0@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: What's that exhaust again?
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 19:02:43
-0500
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Precedence:
bulk
> 1. Is the pipe from the main cat back a 3-in.
pipe?
Yes on non california models. European and CA cars had a
different system
with 2 3/4" pipe and a resonator. (according to
Roger)
> 2. If I split it into two 2-1/2 in. pipes, it will not
cause more
> restriction, correct? (I recall recent calculations here a
few days ago
> that seemed to indicate I will be allright)
No more
restriction, actually less, but I am not sure if it will help since
the
3" pipe is still before the split.
> 3. The biggest problem
seems to be fitting a muffler on the passenger
> side. Has anyone found a
glasspack that fits nicely in there? If so, what
> size? Who makes
it? How loud?
Do you really want glass packs? My experience with them
is that they
eventually blow out and never sound as good as a flowmaster. (I
am biased
:-) ) I just had by stock exhaust cut off from the rear axle
back and had a
single 3" Flowmaster welded in. Cost me $100 in
labor at the local exhaust
shop and $89 for the muffler. It's louder
than a Borla system and sounds
very aggressive. It does however have a
resonance at cruising RPM which
could get a little annoying. I have the
"40 Series" which is the original
design, but they do have a new
muffler which is supposed to cut out the
resonance. (delta flow series) Check
out their site for more
info.
http://www.flowmastermufflers.com
>
> All advice and
guidance will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Rich/old poop/94
VR4/gettin' LOUD
>
> For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page
is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
>
Kevin
Schappell
Auto Answers
http://www.PACarSearch.com
If you love cars,
check out
http://www.pacarsearch.com/motorhead
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
Dec 15 01:34:30 1999
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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:32:44
-0800
From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
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Subject: Re: Team3S: What's that exhaust
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Chris Winkley
wrote:
> I don't think this will work. The output from the stock cat
is 2.5" (maybe
> even 2.25").
It's 2.75" off the
main cat.
> I know of one listmember (Errin Humphrey) who has a
2.5" dual
> exhaust, but it's actually a dual from the precats
back.
Yup!
> He did the math and
> it actually flows more
air than the more common 3" single pipe.
It probably flows about the
same as a 3.5" single (taking added
friction into account).
Certainly excessive for stock turbos, and
well sufficient for the biggest
turbos currently available.
> I'm not sure if he has any muffler at
all (Errin, are you out there?)
Yeah, I'm here, Chris! :)
Actually, I'm about 1000 emails behind
on the mailing list and desperately
trying to catch up. I have dual
fullsize mufflers, one on each
side. They are Dynomax Bullet 2.5"
straight-throughs, 18"
long 6" wide round stainless-steel cases.
> but it sounds quite
nice.
You heard it? Oh yeah, last November. I think at that
time I didn't
have any mufflers on. Now with the dual Bullets (and dual
glasspacks)
it sounds very smooth and "purry." Not as boomy
and much quieter
than 3" single.
> My concern with this
approach is weight. When I pulled my stock
> exhaust, it was VERY heavy (I
wish I had weighed it before it hit the scrap
> heap).
The stock
system weighs a ton. My true-dual system weighs very
little.
Straight-through 2.5" 14ga aluminized steel piping is quite light,
and I
could easily pick up each pipe with one hand. The mufflers
weighed in
at about 8lbs apiece. I'll weigh the system one of these
days for
comparison.
Rich Merritt wrote:
> >1. Is the pipe from
the main cat back a 3-in. pipe?
2.75"
For reference
sake: piping off of the front header and rear 02
housing is
2". Piping into and out of the catalytic conver is
2.75".
Piping off of the active exhaust unit (going to the passenger
side
resonator) is 2.25".
> >2. If I split it into
two 2-1/2 in. pipes, it will not cause more
> >restriction, correct? (I
recall recent calculations here a few days ago
> >that seemed to
indicate I will be allright)
Definitely not.
> >3. The
biggest problem seems to be fitting a muffler on the passenger
> >side.
Has anyone found a glasspack that fits nicely in there? If so,
what
> >size? Who makes it? How loud?
With dual (even just
"fake" dual) straight-through exhaust, it's going to be
pretty loud
unless you have mufflers on both sides. Of course, everyone
has their
own gauge for "loud." I can tell you right away that a
glasspack
(the smaller 3.5" casing kind) won't do much at all.
amhik. If you're
going to put a full-size muffler on the passenger side
(like my Bullets), it
is necessary to "modify" the fuel filler
hose. You have to remove the fuel
filler hose metal guard so you can
remove the rubber hose and cut it
shorter, then modify the guard so that it
leaves more room for a muffler.
Any experienced muffler mechanic can do this
no problem.
Anyone on this list who hasn't seen pictures of my system and
wants me
to send them some, please send me a ~personal~ email.
--Errin
Humphrey
Seattle, WA
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
Dec 15 01:37:36 1999
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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:35:55
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From: Errin Humphrey <errin@u.washington.edu>
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Subject: Re: Team3S: What's that
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Kevin
wrote:
> > 1. Is the pipe from the main cat back a
3-in. pipe?
> Yes on non california models. European and CA cars had
a different system
> with 2 3/4" pipe and a resonator. (according to
Roger)
Thanks for the heads up!
Correction to my last post:
I mentioned that post-cat piping is
2.75", but I forgot to mention that
my car is a CA version.
--Errin Humphrey
Seattle, WA
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
Dec 15 06:07:06 1999
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From: "Curt Gendron"
<curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: What's that exhaust
again?
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:06:43 CST
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I'd be very
surprised if the exhaust system on CA cars is any different then
the
rest. I've worked on both OBD I and OBD II downpipes and cats and they
are the same diameter. The only difference being the extra two O2
sensors
on the OBD II. I know that Buscher sells a test pipe for our
cars and it
fits all years. If the diameter of the exhaust was
different, I would think
the same test pipe wouldn't fit if the exhausts
were different. My Stealth
is a non-CA car and it has 2 3/4 inch
exhaust.
later,
Curt
Join us at the Upper Midwest Gathering in
May. Check out
http://www.mn3s.org/upper-midwest.html for
details.
>From: Errin Humphrey
<errin@u.washington.edu>
>To: 3/S Sirius Mailing List
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
>Subject: Re: Team3S: What's that
exhaust again?
>Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:35:55 -0800
>
>Kevin
wrote:
>
> > > 1. Is the pipe from the main cat
back a 3-in. pipe?
> > Yes on non california models. European and
CA cars had a different
>system
> > with 2 3/4" pipe and a
resonator. (according to Roger)
>
>Thanks for the heads
up!
>
>Correction to my last post: I mentioned that post-cat
piping is
>2.75", but I forgot to mention that my car is a CA
version.
>
>--Errin Humphrey
>Seattle, WA
>
>For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
>http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
______________________________________________________
Get
Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
Dec 15 06:55:56 1999
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From: "R.G."
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Subject: Re: Team3S: What's
that exhaust again?
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:56:41 +0100
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> I'd be very
surprised if the exhaust system on CA cars is any different then
> the
rest. I've worked on both OBD I and OBD II downpipes and cats and they
> are the same diameter.
We are not speaking about the front at
stuff. The cat back on my EU car is smaller than 3" on the inner side. This
is why the ATR cat and pipe came with a restriction down to the 2 1/2"
piping. Also there is a small resonator in the piping before the diff. Just have
a look at the manuals.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe
info, our web page is http://www.bobforrest.com/Team3S.htm
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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:56:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius
<stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: What's that exhaust
again?
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>> My
concern with this approach is weight. When I
>> pulled my stock
exhaust, it was VERY heavy (I wish
>> I had weighed it before it hit
the scrap heap).
Here are approximate weights (in pounds) of the
stock
exhaust system compared to the ATR system for my 1992
Stealth TT
(non-CA car). I used a bathroom scale.
Brackets are not
included.
stock
ATR
Downpipe
15 10
Main
cat
15 5 (test pipe 2#)
Exhaust from
cat back 54
56
Stock from cat back was weighed as one piece (as
removed). ATR
pieces were weighed individually.
Jeff Lucius 1992 Stealth
TT
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
Dec 15 08:05:26 1999
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From:
Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Cc: "'R.G.'"
<robby@freesurf.ch>
Subject: RE: Team3S: What's that exhaust
again?
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:04:45 -0800
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Folks...
Roger makes a good point. We should specify whether
we're referring to ID
(Inside Diameter) or OD (Outside Diameter). I've been
referring to ID in my
posts. However, I have never taken a set of calipers to
the ID (or OD, which
wouldn't matter too much to me).
I was speaking
of my dealings with ATR, where they say they provide a
reduction from 3"
to 2.5" in order to mate to the stock catback system.
Since I already
had a 3" catback exhaust, I had to have the reduction
section removed
and a 3" flange welded on.
Looking
forward...Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: R.G.
[mailto:robby@freesurf.ch]
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 6:57 AM
To:
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: Re: Team3S: What's that exhaust
again?
> I'd be very surprised if the exhaust system on CA cars is any
different
then
> the rest. I've worked on both OBD I and OBD II
downpipes and cats and
they
> are the same diameter.
We are not
speaking about the front at stuff. The cat back on my EU car is
smaller than
3" on the inner side. This is why the ATR cat and pipe came
with a
restriction down to the 2 1/2" piping. Also there is a small
resonator
in the piping before the diff. Just have a look at the
manuals.
Roger
93'3000GT TT
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
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From
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Subject:
Re: Team3S: What's that exhaust again?
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:33:58
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Even more, the
Borla cat-back comes with a reduction flange from 3" to 2 1/2"
(inside) that bolts onto the stock cat. My system looks really ugly now with the
reduction from the cat to the flange and then another one that goes back to
3".
The Borla cat back is damn light and I tell you my car was
higher in the rear after the installation (SUV look !) I currently run the stock
system due to the last gov test I've done and had no time to change it back.
I'll do it in spring and will them measure the Borla weight (or when I ever
clean up my garage, hehe)
Roger
93'3000GT TT
> I was
speaking of my dealings with ATR, where they say they provide a
>
reduction from 3" to 2.5" in order to mate to the stock catback
system.
> Since I already had a 3" catback exhaust, I had to have the
reduction
> section removed and a 3" flange welded on.
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
Dec 15 08:58:57 1999
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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 10:56:34 -0600
To: Chris Winkley
<cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>, stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
From:
Merritt <merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: Team3S: This is
exhausting!
Cc: "'R.G.'" <robby@freesurf.ch>
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I am beginning
to get the picture here.
Based on what everyone SEEMS to be saying, the
stock catback pipe is 2-3/4
in. OD (2.5 in. ID) while aftermarket performance
add-ons, such as the ATR
downpipe, are 3 in. OD.
As Chris Winkley
points out, if you put an ATR downpipe on, it comes with a
sleeve to neck
down to the stock size.
So, if one planned to upgrade from the downpipe
all the way back, then it
would be best to make the Y-connection at the rear
end a 3 incher (3 in.
inlet, two 2-1/2 in. outlets), so it would be able to
accommodate future
updates to an all 3 in. system. In the meantime, a simple
sleeve would let
it fit the stock 2-3/4 in. pipe from the cat back.
Thanks, guys.
Rich/old poop
For subscribe/unsubscribe info,
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From
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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:22:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius
<stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: What's that exhaust
again?
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----- Original
Message -----
From: Chris Winkley
<cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: What's that exhaust
again?
> Folks...
>
> Roger makes a good point. We should
specify whether
> we're referring to ID (Inside Diameter) or OD
>(Outside Diameter). I've been referring to ID in my
> posts.
However, I have never taken a set of calipers
> to the ID ....
snip
Hmmm, well I have mic'd the ATR exhaust and some of
the stock
exhaust for my 1992 Stealth TT (I haven't
cut up the old one yet to measure
all IDs :) ). Here
are the nominal IDs in inches at the ends of the
pipe.
I haven't measured all the ODs on the ATR to calculate
the IDs in
the middles and bends of the pipes. The
last column is the percent increase
in cross-sectional
area of the ATR pipe/opening over the stock
ones.
stock
ATR %increase
Downpipe
inlets
1.95
2.3
39
Downpipe outlet
2.415
2.875 42
main
cat
2.37-2.45
3.035 64-54
pipe after
cat
2.45
pipes after
cat
2.8-2.88 31-38
Jeff Lucius 1992
Stealth TT
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
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From: "Kevin Schappell"
<kevin@pacarsearch.com>
To: "'Merritt'"
<merritt@cedar-rapids.net>,
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: This is
exhausting!
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:59:01 -0500
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Rich,
I
measured my stock pipe from the cat back with a caliper and it's
slightly
over 3" It's probably 80mm since it's a metric car.
If your car is not
from CA or Europe then it will be the same size as
mine. I don't see any
need to replace the pipe from the converter to
the rear axle. Just go with
your idea of the y-pipe and new
mufflers. If you want to check it out, cut
a 3" slot in a piece of
cardboard and lay under the car and check it out.
You can get to the pipe
very easy without jacking it up.
Kevin Schappell
Auto
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
Dec 15 09:41:44 1999
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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:41:03 -0600
To: "Kevin Schappell"
<kevin@pacarsearch.com>,
<stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com>
From: Merritt
<merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: This is
exhausting!
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Kevin Schappell
says:
>I measured my stock pipe from the cat back with a caliper and it's
slightly
>over 3" It's probably 80mm since it's a metric
car.
Gee, I thought I had figured it out.
What's going on
here? Why does everyone get different measurements for the
same
pipes?
I guess I better be prepared for anything when we crawl under
there.
Rich/old poop/94 VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web
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From
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From:
Chris Winkley <cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com>
To: "'Merritt'"
<merritt@cedar-rapids.net>
Cc: Kevin Schappell
<kevin@pacarsearch.com>, stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE:
Team3S: This is exhausting!
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:45:28
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Rich...
Again, I'm pretty sure we're mixing numbers. Jeff
sent a post with ID
(Inside Diameter) measurements, while it appears (to me,
if he's using a set
of calipers from under the car) that Kevin is measuring
OD (Outside
Diameter). We REALLY should specify our measurement terminology
(ID, OD,
English, Metric, etc.).
Looking
forward...Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Merritt
[mailto:merritt@cedar-rapids.net]
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 9:41
AM
To: Kevin Schappell; stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
Subject: RE:
Team3S: This is exhausting!
Kevin Schappell says:
>I measured my
stock pipe from the cat back with a caliper and it's slightly
>over
3" It's probably 80mm since it's a metric car.
Gee, I
thought I had figured it out.
What's going on here? Why does everyone get
different measurements for the
same pipes?
I guess I better be
prepared for anything when we crawl under there.
Rich/old poop/94
VR4
For subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 09:59:24 -0800
From: Dan Jett
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Subject: Team3S: Intake plenum/manifold
questions...
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** High Priority
**
Hello, all...
I've posted this question elsewhere, (thanks for
the input, Roger!),
but I figured there may be more information
available...
I have a 94 Stealth TT, and I've recently aqquired a '99 VR4
intake
plenum and manifold. There are two extra ports, (one is MAP
sensor
port, the other, well, your guess is as good as mine!). There are
(I
think) two extra hose connections as well.
My dillemna is this: I wish
to have the units portmatched, maybe
extrude honed, and polished, as an
upgrade to my 94 mill...I'm not
sure how feasible it is to modify the intake
plenum for gauging
pressure, or if I should just have them filled.
Roger brought up an
interesting point that the throttle body may not even fit
the new
plenum. Has anyone had any experience with porting
their
plenum/manifold?
I'm looking for information as to the
functionality of these extra
ports...I'm not sure if anyone has a '99 shop
manual, (certainly not
here in the bay area!), but I would really appreciate
any ideas,
thoughts, or comments on this issue.
Also, has anyone here with
honed intake systems noticed any
improvement over stock? Any quantifiable
results?
Thanks in advance for the help!
Dan J
94 Stealth
TT
Centerforce DF clutch
K/N FIPK
Greddy exhaust
For
subscribe/unsubscribe info, our web page is
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From owner-stealth-3000gt Wed
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From: "Kevin Schappell"
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To: "'Chris Winkley'"
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Cc:
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Subject: RE: Team3S: This is
exhausting!
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:15:29 -0500
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Either way the
stock pipes are not 1/8" wall so if I say 3"OD or 3"ID
there
is NO way you could confuse it with 2 1/2" pipe or even 2
3/4" I do not know
if the exhaust pipe is metric or standard, HKS lists
their systems in MM
however. I did measure the pipe with a caliper
therefore the 3" measurement
I gave was OD.
Take
care,
Kevin Schappell
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> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Chris Winkley
[mailto:cwinkley@plaza.ds.adp.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999
12:45 PM
> To: 'Merritt'
> Cc: Kevin Schappell;
stealth-3000gt@list.sirius.com
> Subject: RE: Team3S: This is
exhausting!
>
>
> Rich...
>
> Again, I'm pretty
sure we're mixing numbers. Jeff sent a post with ID
> (Inside Diameter)
measurements, while it appears (to me, if
> he's using a set
> of
calipers from under the car) that Kevin is measuring OD (Outside
>
Diameter). We REALLY should specify our measurement
> terminology (ID,
OD,
> English, Metric, etc.).
>
> Looking
forward...Chris
>
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