team3s           Tuesday, December 12 2000           Volume 01 : Number 349




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:08:59 -0500
From: "Roger J. Roskam" <roger.roskam@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 18" Rims

> Guess you need to check your facts out a little harder. 95-96 they had 18"
> wheels that were "Stealth specific" as an $4612 option...looky here:
>

Do you mean that they were that much on the original window sticker?  In
other words, if you upgraded from 17" to 18" wheels & tires, you had to pay
$1154 MORE per wheel?  It would have been cheaper to stick with the
*standard*  17" wheels & tires, then go buy yourself another whole set of
18" wheels & tires for less than $4612!  Then you would have 2 complete sets
of wheels for less money than the one set that were an option.  That just
doesn't make sense.


Roger Roskam
'91 Indy Stealth RT/TT


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:37:50 -0800
From: "Chris Maxwell" <shmacker@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: New problem...anyone?

Okay, well it only seems right that a new problem would develop the day
after I fix a 1/4" hole in one of my intercoolers.  Here's the deal.  The
car starts up fine when the engine is cold (like in the morning), but when I
start up the engine when it's already warm(like getting back in my car after
some Johnny Rockets), it idles at around 400rpm and will stall if I don't
gas it a little.  It will settle down after about 2 minutes, but feels a
little sluggish after that.  I don't seem to feel the sluggishness when it
starts from a cold state(after it heats up of course).

Assuming that the engine isn't sluggish after it settles down, what might
the problem be, since I can't really prove that the car is sluggish.
Assuming that the engine is a little sluggish after it settles down, what
might the problem be?

This one really has me perplexed....

Thanks,
Chris
92 R/T TT


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:19:00 -0500
From: "Roger J. Roskam" <roger.roskam@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Transfer Case recall

> Subject: Team3S: Transfer Case recall


> I ran across this link while looking for parts.  Hopefully it might help a
> few people out. I just love stuff in writing.
>
>
http://www.consumerreports.org/Recalls/Reports/all/DodgeStealthRTTurboandMit
subishi3000GTVR-491.html
>

OK, my car was made during this time period (4/90 to 4/91).  Has anyone else
ever had their transfer case replaced under this recall?

For reference, my car is a 91 Stealth RT/TT Indy Pace Car replica, and has
83k miles.  I have replaced the clutch, but the manual transmission and
transfer case have not been touched since I bought the car at 36k miles,
(and I don't think prior to that, either).  It runs and shifts quite well,
with an occasional grind from 1st to 2nd.  It has a bleeder valve and boost
gauge, nothing more.

Roger Roskam
'91 Indy Stealth RT/TT


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 18:55:17 -0800
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Open-Track day @Buttonwillow..read..

Geoff

I'll be there if I have to take my wifes Intrepid ---- I have tears in my eyes
as I speak because I missed Laguna Seca this weekend  :-(  sniff sniff.

It would be great to get a batch of folk ---- the race group should have run
out of excuses by now !!!!!!!!  Ken, Hoser, George, Kurt ---- anybody

        Jim berry              Buttonwillow    2-10-01
===================================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To: <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>

>
> Again I will be planning in visiting Buttonwillow raceway for an
> open-track event.
>
> I DID meet a few of you at the last event (this is BCCd to other lists
> too) and hope to see you again and others.
>
> http://www.open-track.com/ot_general/ot_schedule.html is where you look
> these fun events up in Southern Cali.



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 19:59:00 -0600
From: "Trevor L. James" <trevor@kscable.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 18" Rims

It was part of an option package:
- -ABS
- -Alarm
- -Infinity Stereo with 6 Disc changer
- -Leather
- -10 Way drivers seat
- -18" Chrome wheels
- -Sunroof

Trev

"Roger J. Roskam" wrote:

> > Guess you need to check your facts out a little harder. 95-96 they had 18"
> > wheels that were "Stealth specific" as an $4612 option...looky here:
> >
>
> Do you mean that they were that much on the original window sticker?  In
> other words, if you upgraded from 17" to 18" wheels & tires, you had to pay
> $1154 MORE per wheel?  It would have been cheaper to stick with the
> *standard*  17" wheels & tires, then go buy yourself another whole set of
> 18" wheels & tires for less than $4612!  Then you would have 2 complete sets
> of wheels for less money than the one set that were an option.  That just
> doesn't make sense.
>
> Roger Roskam
> '91 Indy Stealth RT/TT
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 18:41:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 15G turbos update (pump flow)

I wont have 1000Hp, but I dont wish to use anythng past 80% of its total
capacity in our design.

On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, Jeff Lucius wrote:

> Roger is correct. For an idea of what an average fuel pump might flow
> at different pressures check out the chart on my fuel pump upgrade
> web page.
>
> http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius2/j2-2-fuelpumpguide.htm
>
> And as Roger stated, every pump is different but ALL pumps will flow
> less at high boost (high fuel line pressure) than at low boost (low
> fuel line pressure). Corky Bell's (Maximum Boost) field data suggests
> that the typical pump will flow at 59% of the rated (43 psi) value at
> 20 psi boost and only 52% at 25 psi boost. And if someone is looking
> for 1000 HP out of our 3L engine I'm guessing you'll be at 30 psi
> boost or more. You guys better have some huge fuel pumps. Not to
> mention turbos capable of over 3.1 pressure ratios. (I'd like some
> these myself.)
>
> Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Gerl (RTEC)" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
> To: <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 1:43 PM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: 15G turbos update (pump flow)
>
> > The HKS pump is rated at 390 lph [ about 100 Gal/hr ] and should
> easly support
> > 1000 hp ---- all I lack are the turbos, injectors,IC, engine
> internals etc.etc.
>
> Jim, on what fuel pressure does this pump flow 100 gal/hr ? This is
> only wishful thinking as at 20psi boost, the fuel pressure is at
> about 63psi and therefore the pump has to be able to push against it.
> With such a high power pump you may still not see more than 70 gal/h
> at this pressure what results in about possible 766hp on our engine !
>
> Every pump has its own pressure/flow curve and this is why it is
> important on high pressure applications.
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
> www.rtec.ch
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
> http://shopping.yahoo.com/
>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 19:04:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Open-Track day @Buttonwillow..read..

Cooool.

Bob Forrest..he has to go.  Or give up the mailing list..I mean..how do we
know Bob even has a 3000GT!  *gasp!!*

*heh*

On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, Jim Berry wrote:

> Geoff
>
> I'll be there if I have to take my wifes Intrepid ---- I have tears in my eyes
> as I speak because I missed Laguna Seca this weekend  :-(  sniff sniff.
>
> It would be great to get a batch of folk ---- the race group should have run
> out of excuses by now !!!!!!!!  Ken, Hoser, George, Kurt ---- anybody
>
>         Jim berry              Buttonwillow    2-10-01
> ===================================================
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
> To: <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
> >
> > Again I will be planning in visiting Buttonwillow raceway for an
> > open-track event.
> >
> > I DID meet a few of you at the last event (this is BCCd to other lists
> > too) and hope to see you again and others.
> >
> > http://www.open-track.com/ot_general/ot_schedule.html is where you look
> > these fun events up in Southern Cali.
>
>
>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:11:06 -0800
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Team3S: trick heads

I'm buying a set of used heads to trick out at leisure over the next year or
so until I rebuild my engine --- pistons etc. what's on the wish list.

Porting, polishing, guides [ larger for more support as per Roger or smaller
for less port restriction ], SS valves, titanium retainers, heavier springs
etc. etc.

Has anyone tried for larger valves ??? Titanium valves -- I think the Supra
boys can get them, are they worth the effort/cost.

My question is, what's worth doing, what isn't. As a wish list, cost is of
course no problem  ;-)

        Jim Berry


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:17:19 -0800
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: New problem...anyone?

Did you reset the ECU after you fixed the leak in your intake --- it
may have adjusted to some air coming in after the MAS.

        Jim Berry
==============================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Maxwell <shmacker@home.com>

> Okay, well it only seems right that a new problem would develop the day
> after I fix a 1/4" hole in one of my intercoolers.  Here's the deal.  The
> car starts up fine when the engine is cold (like in the morning), but when I
> start up the engine when it's already warm(like getting back in my car after
> some Johnny Rockets), it idles at around 400rpm and will stall if I don't
> gas it a little.  It will settle down after about 2 minutes, but feels a
> little sluggish after that.  I don't seem to feel the sluggishness when it
> starts from a cold state(after it heats up of course).



***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:23:26 -0600
From: "Eric Cheek" <echeek@cox-internet.com>
Subject: Team3S: RE: GL-5 tranny fluids w/ sulfur based additive bad for synchros

Mike,
Ya the Jeeps have a serious issue with synchros and third gear ;-) .....
I've been running Castrol 15W50 Synthetic Motor Oil in my Jeep tranny for
about 2 years, and this tranny so far has worked better and longer than the
other 3 or 4 I've had in it before. I'm not saying that is what you should
run in the Getrag, and I don't know if I will switch my Getrag to it yet or
not, I'm still reading through the threads (just aquired the VR4 about 40
days ago). The other reason my Jeep tranny has been working so well might be
that I have another rebuilt one in the garage just in case the current one
fails. I do know that a lot of my serious 4x4 buddies run the Castrol
synthetic in their transmissions for both Jeeps and Suzuki samari's.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Reid [mailto:mreid@magma.ca]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 9:28 AM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: GL-5 tranny fluids w/ sulfur based additive bad for synchros


All,

Nobody commented on my GL-5 versus GL-4 tranny fluid question and
since I've heard of this issue on the Getrags before and since
there are plenty of other cars/trannys with the same issue, I'd
like to bring it up.

I have an owners manual for a 92 TT and it claims that GL-4 or
higher tranny fluid is recommended. Mitchells says the same, but
I think this is one of those cases where the manuals were printed
before GL-5 fluids existed. (?)

Most GL-5 fluids appear to use sulfur based additives, and from
what I can tell, these are BAD NEWS for bronze/brass sychros;
they reduce the life of the syncro to one half of normal. Given
our tranny issues, this is REALLY BAD for us, IMO.

Apparently some GL-5 fluids may contain a boron based additive
package that is OK for our synchros...


After browsing many threads on Dejanews I come to the conclusion
that we should use only GL-4 fluids, unless perhaps a GL-5 WITHOUT
sulfur based additives is used. Many other cars/trannys have this
exact same issue, for example, VWs and Jeeps.

I'd bet that MANY shops put GL-5 in our trannies without realizing
it was bad. Even experienced service techs seem to think that GL-5
is just a better alternative to GL-4.


I note that ( http://www.redlineoil.com/products.htm ) MTL and MT-90
are both GL-4 fluids and often recommended for trannies requiring a GL-4
when synthetic is desired. I'm not sure about the "SYNTHETIC GEAR OILS"
products though, such as the 75W90 and 75W90NS...

If there is any problem with the MTL or MT-90 though, I'd imagine that
it could be due to some other additive.


Comments ?

Mike.


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 21:59:58 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: trick heads

I like your approach of having a spare set of heads.  That's the way to go.
I was fairly cautious about having mine cut since I have only one set and
didn't have the means to bankroll a spare set.

If this is a driver, make sure you get someone who knows what they are
doing.  It is easy to lose low RPM velocity.  Strictly WOT work can forego
the low-end response, but IMO this is totally unnecessary and the gains
wouldn't be worth it unless you can get cams to match.  Besides which, you
have to get those huffers spinning up quickly in order to make the power in
a usable fasahion.  Arguably, cams should be done too, but there's precious
little data on what works.  The (proper) R&D would cost double a great
engine job.

The stock heads flow extremely well by V8 standards.  The engine designers
did a great job at extracting a good combination of high end flow and low
end drivability (torque) from these heads.

The guy who did mine actually got a peak flow increase of 20% at the high
end.  Unfortunately this increase is right where the stock cams quit
lifting.  Likely won't make a whole pile of difference with cams.  However,
there was an average of 10-12% increase right in the middle with a slight
loss right around off-idle flow rates.

Larger valves would give you more flow yet, but according to "my guy", he
didn't think it was worth the trouble and expense from a pure flow
perspective.  I deferred to his judgement after discussing what I really
wanted out of the car.  Reduced valve-train weight would have been a (rather
expensive) bonus though.

I have seen flow numbers from another set of extremely tricked out VR4 heads
which included oversize titanium valves, trick retainers and special
springs.  Mine flow better overall on the bench than those ones did.
However, the trick ones should definitely rev quicker and will no doubt work
extremely well.  They should be more reliable than my more or less stock
ones.

The bottom line is you can get 80-90% of the way there on a modest budget
without touching the valves other than proper attention to the seat area and
mating valve surfaces.  If the sky is the limit, go whole hog for the extra
10-20%, but expect to pay.  It is easy to spend $5K on a set of tricked out
VR4 heads.

I strongly suggest you reject anyone who recommends mirror polishing the
intake.  Okay, okay, just don't let them do it.  I have seen the side by
side numbers (and witnessed first hand the results in numerous engines), and
in some cases this actually reduces performance when compared to a good
satin finish.  Mirror polishing the exhaust yields a very tiny improvement
that is not (IMO) worth the additional effort and cost.  The greatest gains
on these heads seem to come from seat area relief and combustion chamber
reshaping.  There are also opportunities to get a more direct shot at the
valve from the port.  Make sure whoever you use has the pistons you plan to
use too so they can make better decisions as to combustion chamber design.

Also be cautious about opening up the ports to match the exhaust header and
the intake plenum.  Doing this can sometimes reduce flow.  Exit velocity is
a big factor.  I'd like to see results from an extrude honed intake, but a
decent manual cleanup will help too.  Don't forget about the throttle body
while you're at it.  It is likely large enough as is but it should be
considered in the flow equation too.

Then there's headers...and proper pre-cat replacements...and....without
which the tricked out heads won't be able to breath to their potential.


Barry

> -----Original Message-----
>
> I'm buying a set of used heads to trick out at leisure over the
> next year or
> so until I rebuild my engine --- pistons etc. what's on the wish list.
>
> Porting, polishing, guides [ larger for more support as per Roger
> or smaller
> for less port restriction ], SS valves, titanium retainers,
> heavier springs
> etc. etc.
>
> Has anyone tried for larger valves ??? Titanium valves -- I think
> the Supra
> boys can get them, are they worth the effort/cost.
>
> My question is, what's worth doing, what isn't. As a wish list,
> cost is of
> course no problem  ;-)
>
>         Jim Berry


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 21:59:48 -0700
From: "Barry E. King" <beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: New problem...anyone?

Took the words right out of my...fingers.  It is possible that with the leak
the ECU has made adjustments that aren't valid any more.  Worth a shot.


Barry

> -----Original Message-----
>
> Did you reset the ECU after you fixed the leak in your intake --- it
> may have adjusted to some air coming in after the MAS.
>
>         Jim Berry
> ==============================================
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chris Maxwell <shmacker@home.com>
>
> > Okay, well it only seems right that a new problem would develop the day
> > after I fix a 1/4" hole in one of my intercoolers.  Here's the
> deal.  The
> > car starts up fine when the engine is cold (like in the
> morning), but when I
> > start up the engine when it's already warm(like getting back in
> my car after
> > some Johnny Rockets), it idles at around 400rpm and will stall
> if I don't
> > gas it a little.  It will settle down after about 2 minutes, but feels a
> > little sluggish after that.  I don't seem to feel the
> sluggishness when it
> > starts from a cold state(after it heats up of course).
>
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 00:06:22 -0500
From: Bill Wagner <wagner@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Trany failure rate (was: Redline bad for Getrags ??)

You're right Jeff. The brakes are great....until the rotors warp!

:-) Good Luck,

Bill Wagner


Jeff Lucius wrote:
>
> "Brakes are marginal"? I don't think so! According to the magazine
> testers (Sports Car Int'l, Motor Trend, and Road & Track) our cars
> have excellent brakes, stopping from 60 mph often in 123 feet or less
> (one test was 116 ft!). In R&Ts 8/96 issue they reported their
> 0-100-0 competition. Not one car stopped faster than the '97 VR4 they
> used, 4.5 sec. from 100 mph. In another test, brake fade was minimal
> after six 0.5 g stops in a row. I'm not saying our stock brakes can't
> be improved - they can, but they definitely don't suck either. See my
> brake upgrade page for more info.
>
> http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius2/j2-2-brakeupgrade.htm
>
> Do you mean 18 splines to 25 splines on the output shaft? I believe
> it is the hardness and shear strength of the material that is the
> problem, not the number of splines.
>
> Yes the 6-speed trany has better ratios but has it been proven they
> are any more reliable? I consider a worn out synchro a fairly minor
> problem as problems go in cars.
>
> No our cars are not perfect, nor do I claim that. Check out the Mods
> page at my website to see the parts I thought could be improved (and
> there's more to come).
>
> Yes! I demand a hand recount until the results are in my favor! :)
>
> Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
> To: "'Jeff Lucius'" <stealthman92@yahoo.com>;
> <team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 8:01 AM
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Trany failure rate (was: Redline bad for Getrags
> ??)
>
> Jeff,
>
> Would you rather have a hand recount of transmission failures among
> the 28,000 owners rather than a vocal sample of owners with possiblly
> a higher level of awareness of the good and bad aspects of their
> cars?  Pretending that our cars are perfect is a worse disservice.
> The brakes are marginal for a 3800 lbs car, even on the street.  What
> do you think prompted Mitsubishi to go from the 5 speed to the six
> speed transmission, or to make an engineering change on the number of
> splines (from 12 to 18, I think)?
>
> I love these cars for what they are, and what they can be, not what I
> wish they were.
>
> Chuck
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jeff Lucius [SMTP:stealthman92@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 8:59 AM
> > To: team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.st
> > Subject: Team3S: Trany failure rate (was: Redline bad for Getrags
> ??)
> >
> > From Eric Bowden's web page,
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/9907/3s-production.html
> >
> > I estimate that the total production of VR4s and TTs was something
> > like 28,000 cars - about 20% of total production. Does anyone here
> > really think that the personal experiences of a small fraction of
> > something like 600 enthusiasts (known for our modification desires
> if
> > not skills and racer tendencies) can represent anything like a
> > scientific/accurate poll of the failure rate of AWD transaxles in
> the
> > hands of Joe Average? I agree the synchros and the output shaft are
> > problem areas, but I think sweeping generalizations regarding the
> > "automatic" failure tendencies of our trannies does a disservice to
> > the 3S community and our cars. Besides, a "rebuilt" trany ($1700)
> is
> > still much cheaper than a set of 15G turbos or a set up TE37
> wheels!
> > What? Are 9B turbos and 30-lb cast aluminum wheels design flaws
> also?
> > (I know, I know, the answer is yes to the last question.) :)
> >
> > Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
> http://shopping.yahoo.com/

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 21:57:37 -0800 (PST)
From: George Kuo <amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Open-Track day @Buttonwillow..read..

I just got a set of spare race rims (Spyder rims)..
got the broken axle & bearings fixed.. placed the
order for some A032's tonight.. should be ready to go!
=)

Haven't been out to any open track events (beside
karting) for over 2 yrs.. should be hitting Willow
Spring with the Alfa Romeo club in Jan to warm up..
then see u guys in Feb! =)

/George

- --- Jim Berry <fastmax@home.com> wrote:
> Geoff
>
> I'll be there if I have to take my wifes Intrepid
> ---- I have tears in my eyes
> as I speak because I missed Laguna Seca this weekend
>  :-(  sniff sniff.
>
> It would be great to get a batch of folk ---- the
> race group should have run
> out of excuses by now !!!!!!!!  Ken, Hoser, George,
> Kurt ---- anybody
>
>         Jim berry              Buttonwillow  
> 2-10-01
> ===================================================
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
> To: <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
> >
> > Again I will be planning in visiting Buttonwillow
> raceway for an
> > open-track event.
> >
> > I DID meet a few of you at the last event (this is
> BCCd to other lists
> > too) and hope to see you again and others.
> >
> >
>
http://www.open-track.com/ot_general/ot_schedule.html
> is where you look
> > these fun events up in Southern Cali.
>
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:23:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Open-Track day @Buttonwillow..read..

Kick..ASS!

Thats at least three of us so far.

2/11/01!!!  Sunday SUNday SUNDAY!!

On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, George Kuo wrote:

> I just got a set of spare race rims (Spyder rims)..
> got the broken axle & bearings fixed.. placed the
> order for some A032's tonight.. should be ready to go!
> =)
>
> Haven't been out to any open track events (beside
> karting) for over 2 yrs.. should be hitting Willow
> Spring with the Alfa Romeo club in Jan to warm up..
> then see u guys in Feb! =)
>
> /George
>
> --- Jim Berry <fastmax@home.com> wrote:
> > Geoff
> >
> > I'll be there if I have to take my wifes Intrepid
> > ---- I have tears in my eyes
> > as I speak because I missed Laguna Seca this weekend
> >  :-(  sniff sniff.
> >
> > It would be great to get a batch of folk ---- the
> > race group should have run
> > out of excuses by now !!!!!!!!  Ken, Hoser, George,
> > Kurt ---- anybody
> >
> >         Jim berry              Buttonwillow  
> > 2-10-01
> > ===================================================
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
> > To: <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
> >
> > >
> > > Again I will be planning in visiting Buttonwillow
> > raceway for an
> > > open-track event.
> > >
> > > I DID meet a few of you at the last event (this is
> > BCCd to other lists
> > > too) and hope to see you again and others.
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.open-track.com/ot_general/ot_schedule.html
> > is where you look
> > > these fun events up in Southern Cali.
> >
> >
> >
> > ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
> http://shopping.yahoo.com/
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:26:23 -0800 (PST)
From: George Kuo <amkreadgto@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Open-Track day @Buttonwillow..read..

Geoff,

You going on Sunday only??

/George
- --- Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com> wrote:
> Kick..ASS!
>
> Thats at least three of us so far.
>
> 2/11/01!!!  Sunday SUNday SUNDAY!!
>
> On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, George Kuo wrote:
>
> > I just got a set of spare race rims (Spyder
> rims)..
> > got the broken axle & bearings fixed.. placed the
> > order for some A032's tonight.. should be ready to
> go!
> > =)
> >
> > Haven't been out to any open track events (beside
> > karting) for over 2 yrs.. should be hitting Willow
> > Spring with the Alfa Romeo club in Jan to warm
> up..
> > then see u guys in Feb! =)
> >
> > /George
> >
> > --- Jim Berry <fastmax@home.com> wrote:
> > > Geoff
> > >
> > > I'll be there if I have to take my wifes
> Intrepid
> > > ---- I have tears in my eyes
> > > as I speak because I missed Laguna Seca this
> weekend
> > >  :-(  sniff sniff.
> > >
> > > It would be great to get a batch of folk ----
> the
> > > race group should have run
> > > out of excuses by now !!!!!!!!  Ken, Hoser,
> George,
> > > Kurt ---- anybody
> > >
> > >         Jim berry              Buttonwillow  
> > > 2-10-01
> > >
> ===================================================
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
> > > To: <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Again I will be planning in visiting
> Buttonwillow
> > > raceway for an
> > > > open-track event.
> > > >
> > > > I DID meet a few of you at the last event
> (this is
> > > BCCd to other lists
> > > > too) and hope to see you again and others.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.open-track.com/ot_general/ot_schedule.html
> > > is where you look
> > > > these fun events up in Southern Cali.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of
> Products.
> > http://shopping.yahoo.com/
> >
> > ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
> >
>
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:33:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Open-Track day @Buttonwillow..read..

Ya..its a family event for us..and a number of other people we work with.

We take Sat. AM to get everything ship-shape, and haul down there Saturday
afternoon.  Stay in our fav. hotel about 10 mins from the track..and get
drunk out at thier nice heated pool.

You cant imagine honestly..how much effort is is to take 2-3 cars
somewhere to race.  One good day of 5 20-30 minutes sessions really wears
you out.

On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, George Kuo wrote:

> Geoff,
>
> You going on Sunday only??
>
> /George
> --- Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com> wrote:
> > Kick..ASS!
> >
> > Thats at least three of us so far.
> >
> > 2/11/01!!!  Sunday SUNday SUNDAY!!
> >
> > On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, George Kuo wrote:
> >
> > > I just got a set of spare race rims (Spyder
> > rims)..
> > > got the broken axle & bearings fixed.. placed the
> > > order for some A032's tonight.. should be ready to
> > go!
> > > =)
> > >
> > > Haven't been out to any open track events (beside
> > > karting) for over 2 yrs.. should be hitting Willow
> > > Spring with the Alfa Romeo club in Jan to warm
> > up..
> > > then see u guys in Feb! =)
> > >
> > > /George
> > >
> > > --- Jim Berry <fastmax@home.com> wrote:
> > > > Geoff
> > > >
> > > > I'll be there if I have to take my wifes
> > Intrepid
> > > > ---- I have tears in my eyes
> > > > as I speak because I missed Laguna Seca this
> > weekend
> > > >  :-(  sniff sniff.
> > > >
> > > > It would be great to get a batch of folk ----
> > the
> > > > race group should have run
> > > > out of excuses by now !!!!!!!!  Ken, Hoser,
> > George,
> > > > Kurt ---- anybody
> > > >
> > > >         Jim berry              Buttonwillow  
> > > > 2-10-01
> > > >
> > ===================================================
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
> > > > To: <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Again I will be planning in visiting
> > Buttonwillow
> > > > raceway for an
> > > > > open-track event.
> > > > >
> > > > > I DID meet a few of you at the last event
> > (this is
> > > > BCCd to other lists
> > > > > too) and hope to see you again and others.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.open-track.com/ot_general/ot_schedule.html
> > > > is where you look
> > > > > these fun events up in Southern Cali.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of
> > Products.
> > > http://shopping.yahoo.com/
> > >
> > > ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
> > >
> >
> >
> > ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
> http://shopping.yahoo.com/
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:37:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Open-Track day @Buttonwillow..read..

And..were all registering as team Speedtoys.Com as well.


PS: "www.speedtoys.com racing" team shirts will be on sale as well.

Really high-quality cotton/silk T's, 3-button down, collars..black as
night W/ logo.

Pick your size before 2/1/01..$35/ea (thats actually $1 below cost, but an
easier number to work with)

On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, George Kuo wrote:

> Geoff,
>
> You going on Sunday only??
>
> /George
> --- Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com> wrote:
> > Kick..ASS!
> >
> > Thats at least three of us so far.
> >
> > 2/11/01!!!  Sunday SUNday SUNDAY!!
> >
> > On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, George Kuo wrote:
> >
> > > I just got a set of spare race rims (Spyder
> > rims)..
> > > got the broken axle & bearings fixed.. placed the
> > > order for some A032's tonight.. should be ready to
> > go!
> > > =)
> > >
> > > Haven't been out to any open track events (beside
> > > karting) for over 2 yrs.. should be hitting Willow
> > > Spring with the Alfa Romeo club in Jan to warm
> > up..
> > > then see u guys in Feb! =)
> > >
> > > /George
> > >
> > > --- Jim Berry <fastmax@home.com> wrote:
> > > > Geoff
> > > >
> > > > I'll be there if I have to take my wifes
> > Intrepid
> > > > ---- I have tears in my eyes
> > > > as I speak because I missed Laguna Seca this
> > weekend
> > > >  :-(  sniff sniff.
> > > >
> > > > It would be great to get a batch of folk ----
> > the
> > > > race group should have run
> > > > out of excuses by now !!!!!!!!  Ken, Hoser,
> > George,
> > > > Kurt ---- anybody
> > > >
> > > >         Jim berry              Buttonwillow  
> > > > 2-10-01
> > > >
> > ===================================================
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
> > > > To: <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Again I will be planning in visiting
> > Buttonwillow
> > > > raceway for an
> > > > > open-track event.
> > > > >
> > > > > I DID meet a few of you at the last event
> > (this is
> > > > BCCd to other lists
> > > > > too) and hope to see you again and others.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.open-track.com/ot_general/ot_schedule.html
> > > > is where you look
> > > > > these fun events up in Southern Cali.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of
> > Products.
> > > http://shopping.yahoo.com/
> > >
> > > ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
> > >
> >
> >
> > ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
> http://shopping.yahoo.com/
>
> ***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***
>


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:53:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Geoff Mohler <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject: Team3S: Steerin wheel..

Can someone tell me the fricken diameter of the VR4 steering wheel
puhhleaze?

Gotta order a new one..need da size.


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 02:14:53 -0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Team3S: Admin NOTE: Flames and Chat?

Hey, folks,

Many of us seem to be forgetting our major premise for the Team3S list:
to discuss ONLY technical issues, free of chat, flames, fluff, or BS.
And we send Admin Notices to other members who violate this.  Lately a
couple of us Admins are among the violators, too...  My apologies.  It's
time to send a public "nasty note" (as Merritt calls it) to *ourselves*.

Team3S benefits from discussions about racing in that what we learn
about our cars is helpful to all owners.  But this is not a racing list,
with maybe 20% of us *ever* getting on the track, and maybe 5% to 10% of
us 'tracking' on a regular basis.  We do not want to chew up bandwidth
on a racing topic if it isn't a technical discussion - the chat (mine
included) has got to cease.  Reading about mods (and the creative
exchange of ideas that get us there) is of interest to many, as are
reading about the race results that those mods bring about.  But this is
a reminder that local plans, prep notes, and all that "witty repartee"
should be private, or on another list.  And in a forum like ours that
holds to high standards, anything even resembling a flame has no place.

Perhaps it's even time to do a separate list (the "SpeedToys List"?) for
the race crowd, and if the rules of *that* list allow "chat", so be it.
But the Team3S rules we came up with when we formed (and that most of
the members approve of) do *not* allow chat, nor unidentified
*off-topic* posts, nor charming one-liners.  Even some of the racers
have reminded us Admins lately that things are getting pretty "noisy" on
the list.  And they're right.  Adding a witty comment to a technical
post is great, but if there isn't any technical content to your post,
then PLEASE take it private!

                     -:-

One more quick note:  when you post to the list, kindly take the time to
trim off all the unnecessary quoted material from the previous posts you
are replying to.  As was pointed out recently, it's pretty unfair to the
digest members to have to cursor down through *pages* of quoted material
to see the next message.  If you care about other members, you can spare
a minute to make sure your post contains only what's necessary.  It's
what being a "team player" is all about.  Please..., be a good
"netizen".

(And please..., address any comments to this post to the Admins, not to
the list).

Forrest
for the Admins








***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:47:19 -0500
From: Ken Stanton <tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S: 2-4 bolt -swap-

Hello everyone

Can anyone tell me precisely what it is one would have to do to upgrade
their '91 TT to the 4-bolt main motor?  I have someone who is selling a
motor for a very fair price and is in great shape and would rather just
dump it in as is.
I've heard that this requires an ECU swap and a wiring harness swap,
anyone know for sure if the whole harness is necessary?
Any and all help appreciated!

Ken Stanton
'91 Pearl White RT/TT

_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 06:27:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: 15G turbos update (pump flow)

Yep I understand. I feel the same way about safety margins with my
lowly setup. I think the confusion comes when manufacturers, dealers,
and enthusiast (not yourself or members of this list) make a claim
such as the following.

"The ILT pump flows 90 gph and is good for 1080 HP." This statement
is true (on average) subject to the these conditions: the pump is
used at the rated pressure (usually 43 psi, which is usually true for
normally-aspiration vehicles), gasoline weighs 6 lb/gal (close
enough), BSFC is 0.5, the person is reckless enough to run the pump
at 100% capacity (80% as you say provides a nice safety margin).

(90 x 6) / 0.5 = 1080

The problem for us forced induction car owners is that pump flow goes
down as we raise boost and that "1080 HP" number above goes right out
the window. For the high-boost crowd, the "rated HP" values should
probably be cut in half (allows for high boost and a safety margin)
to more accurately reflect a pump's suitability for a particular
setup.

Mikael Kenson knows this and has installed 2 pumps for his setup.

Good news for fuel line upgraders though. Flow capacity increases
with the 4th power of the pipe radius. So increasing the diameter of
the stock lines by only 20% doubles capacity.

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Mohler" <gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To: "Jeff Lucius" <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Cc: <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: 15G turbos update (pump flow)


I wont have 1000Hp, but I dont wish to use anythng past 80% of its
total capacity in our design.

On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, Jeff Lucius wrote:

> Roger is correct. For an idea of what an average fuel pump might
flow
> at different pressures check out the chart on my fuel pump upgrade
> web page.
>
> http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius2/j2-2-fuelpumpguide.htm
>
> And as Roger stated, every pump is different but ALL pumps will
flow
> less at high boost (high fuel line pressure) than at low boost (low
> fuel line pressure). Corky Bell's (Maximum Boost) field data
suggests
> that the typical pump will flow at 59% of the rated (43 psi) value
at
> 20 psi boost and only 52% at 25 psi boost. And if someone is
looking
> for 1000 HP out of our 3L engine I'm guessing you'll be at 30 psi
> boost or more. You guys better have some huge fuel pumps. Not to
> mention turbos capable of over 3.1 pressure ratios. (I'd like some
> these myself.)
>
> Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Gerl (RTEC)" <roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
> To: <team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 1:43 PM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: 15G turbos update (pump flow)
>
> > The HKS pump is rated at 390 lph [ about 100 Gal/hr ] and should
> easly support
> > 1000 hp ---- all I lack are the turbos, injectors,IC, engine
> internals etc.etc.
>
> Jim, on what fuel pressure does this pump flow 100 gal/hr ? This is
> only wishful thinking as at 20psi boost, the fuel pressure is at
> about 63psi and therefore the pump has to be able to push against
it.
> With such a high power pump you may still not see more than 70
gal/h
> at this pressure what results in about possible 766hp on our engine
!
>
> Every pump has its own pressure/flow curve and this is why it is
> important on high pressure applications.
>
> Roger
> 93'3000GT TT
> www.rtec.ch


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 06:38:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Lucius <stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Trany failure rate (was: Redline bad for Getrags ??)

So true! In fact that statement is true for every rotor ever made on
this planet. For normal, sane, safe, and legal street use (as the
manufacturer intended), our stock brakes are just fine. For "track"
use, I agree, they are easily improved. For those that want to know
how, check out:

http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius2/j2-2-brakeupgrade.htm

Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Wagner" <wagner@sprynet.com>
To: "Jeff Lucius" <stealthman92@yahoo.com>;
<team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Trany failure rate (was: Redline bad for Getrags
??)


You're right Jeff. The brakes are great....until the rotors warp!

:-) Good Luck,

Bill Wagner


Jeff Lucius wrote:
>
> "Brakes are marginal"? I don't think so! According to the magazine
> testers (Sports Car Int'l, Motor Trend, and Road & Track) our cars
> have excellent brakes, stopping from 60 mph often in 123 feet or
less
> (one test was 116 ft!). In R&Ts 8/96 issue they reported their
> 0-100-0 competition. Not one car stopped faster than the '97 VR4
they
> used, 4.5 sec. from 100 mph. In another test, brake fade was
minimal
> after six 0.5 g stops in a row. I'm not saying our stock brakes
can't
> be improved - they can, but they definitely don't suck either. See
my
> brake upgrade page for more info.
>
> http://www.3si.org/member-home/jlucius2/j2-2-brakeupgrade.htm
>
> Do you mean 18 splines to 25 splines on the output shaft? I believe
> it is the hardness and shear strength of the material that is the
> problem, not the number of splines.
>
> Yes the 6-speed trany has better ratios but has it been proven they
> are any more reliable? I consider a worn out synchro a fairly minor
> problem as problems go in cars.
>
> No our cars are not perfect, nor do I claim that. Check out the
Mods
> page at my website to see the parts I thought could be improved
(and
> there's more to come).
>
> Yes! I demand a hand recount until the results are in my favor! :)
>
> Jeff Lucius, www.stealth316.com


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
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***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 08:59:56 -0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Trany failure rate (was: Redline bad for Getrags ??)

Jeff,

When we were talking about what prompted Mitsubishi to change from the 5
speed to the 6 speed, I think I recall (no pun intended) you saying that
they were adjusting/improving gear ratios.  When I first looked at the
serivce manual, I thought they had changed gear ratios a lot, pretty much
adding a new lower "zero" gear, but when I sat down and calculated the total
ratio for each gear including final transfer, it appears that the gear
ratios are the same within about 1% as the 5 speed, except there is a new
6th gear over-over drive.  I haven't driven the 6 speed on the track yet,
but I am guessing now there are 2 gears I won't use, instead of just one.

Chuck

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Lucius [SMTP:stealthman92@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 8:39 AM
> To: team3s@mail.stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Trany failure rate (was: Redline bad for Getrags
> ??)
>
>

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 09:00:17 -0600
From: "Trevor L. James" <trevor@kscable.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Trany failure rate (was: Redline bad for Getrags ??)

Approximate max speeds in each gear:

5 Speed
1: 42mph
2: 75
3: 119
4: 161
5: 201

6 Speed
1: 41
2: 70
3: 108
4: 147
5: 187
6: 233

The third gear's where the big difference is. In stock form the six speeds pull
much harder in third gear and redline going through the traps. Almost perfect
for drag racing. :)

Trev
96 R/T TT
Former 91 R/T TT owner

"Willis, Charles E." wrote:

> Jeff,
>
> When we were talking about what prompted Mitsubishi to change from the 5
> speed to the 6 speed, I think I recall (no pun intended) you saying that
> they were adjusting/improving gear ratios.  When I first looked at the
> serivce manual, I thought they had changed gear ratios a lot, pretty much
> adding a new lower "zero" gear, but when I sat down and calculated the total
> ratio for each gear including final transfer, it appears that the gear
> ratios are the same within about 1% as the 5 speed, except there is a new
> 6th gear over-over drive.  I haven't driven the 6 speed on the track yet,
> but I am guessing now there are 2 gears I won't use, instead of just one.
>
> Chuck


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of team3s V1 #349
*********************