team3s
Tuesday, October 31
2000 Volume 01
: Number
311
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 30 Oct 2000 07:35:47 -0800 (PST)
From: John Christian <
jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Attn: AutoX/Road racers..
Hi all,
You pose an interesting
question.
For an AWD you'd have to make sure the rolling dia
of
the fronts and backs were almost equal.
If you don't have AWD, then
I'd put wider/stickier
tires on the front.
Handling WILL be different
for sure.
I wouldn't experiment on a road course. I'd try
that
on an autoX course first.
Goeff Moher might have an
opinion.
Be of good cheer,
John
- --- George Kuo <
amkreadgto@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
What's your opinon on putting race tires in the
> fronts
> and
street tires in the rear?
>
> Since our cars have more problem with
under steer..
>
> Thanks,
> George
>
> p.s. got
a spare set of 2nd gen/spyder rims this
> weekend!! =) ... one step
closer..
>
>
__________________________________________________
> Do You
Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
>
http://im.yahoo.com/>
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
=====
Please respond to
jczoom@iname.com'93 TT with Porsche
brakes and Supra TT rotors
12.4@109MPH 5/97 almost stock
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538__________________________________________________
Do
You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
http://im.yahoo.com/***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 07:46:35
-0800 (PST)
From: John Christian <
jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Helmet Requirements
Hi Trent,
Most clubs require Snell 95
SA. If you don't have a
helmet yet buy one with the latest Snell rating
and
make sure it is SA (not M). 'M" is Motorcycle.
For price,
The saying is "What is your head worth?"
$50 $500
$1000
Consider the full face with the plastic shield. The
shield
will keep rain, blood from the deer/ground hog
from temporarilly blinding you
during an incident and
maybe let you keep control of your car.
-
--- Trent <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
wrote:
> Do any of our regular club racers know what the
> minimum
requirements are for
> helmets? Is Snell 95 sufficient, or do I need
an
> additional fireproof
> certification?
>
> Thanks
in advance,
> DaveT/92TT
>
>
> _____NetZero Free
Internet Access and Email______
>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html>
> *** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
=====
Please respond to
jczoom@iname.com'93 TT with Porsche
brakes and Supra TT rotors
12.4@109MPH 5/97 almost stock
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538__________________________________________________
Do
You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
http://im.yahoo.com/***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:48:19
-0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: '97 SOHC to 200+ hp?
With FIPK/resonator you'll pick up
(arguably) ~10HP, and maybe another 20HP from
the ported/polished intake (if
you get a bigger throttlebody with it); this may
justify your proposed
exhaust mods, which might get you to around 200HP
(+/-5)... If you
don't put out a substantial amount more exhaust gases from
these intake mods,
removing backpressure through a freer-flowing exhaust system
will actually
*slow* you off the line, although it will also give you a bit more
top
end. BTW, a "true" dual exhaust will have a separate system off each
bank
of cylinders - your mod will still be a single, split exhaust. You
might add an
eRAM electric SuperCharger (works only at WOT) for an additional
12-15HP or so.
Sounds like around $3k for your plan...
OR
You
can trade in your '97 base (you'll get around $22-25k for it) and buy a
'95
VR4 (nicer lines anyway, IMO...) from a dealer for a bit less $, WITH
an
aftermarket warranty to make up the price difference in your favor.
You'll be
selling at wholesale and buying at retail, but you'll have your
dream car - see
our prices page for real numbers:
www.Team3S.com/FAQ-3Sprices.htmBest,
Forrest
>
I have been looking around the internet to find out
> just what I need to
do in order to get my '97 base
> coupe over 200hp. I'm trying to hit
200hp + so
> hopefully my current car will tide me over until I
pay
> it off and then am able to get a VR4. These are the
>
mods I am looking at right now to reach my goal.
> Please let me know if
A)they will make 200+ hp or B)
> what else I need to reach this
goal. Bear in mind I am
> trying to do this for as little money as
possible...
>
> K&N FIPK (already installed)
> Port and
polish intake
> Free flow custom exhaust with precats removed and
a
> free flow main cat split to true dual exhaust in the
>
rear.
> 93 octane pump gas (already "installed")
> Octane booster
fuel additive (???)
>
> Would this help me to reach or surpass the
200hp mark?
> What else could I do that would be relatively
>
inexpensive to get a little more spunk from my SOHC
> base 3000GT?
Any help would be appreciated.
>
> --Travis
> '97 3000GT (Base
+ K&N FIPK sans Resonator Bottle / Red)
>
>
> ***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:27:40
-0800
From: "Browne, Troy E" <
troy.e.browne@intel.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: TMO Datalogger on 94-95, OBDI/II???
Hi everyone,
Has
anyone heard about
http://www.obdii.com
and their Autotap product?
It's not completed for our cars yet but is
expected by end of year. If
you look on the demo page it does seem to
have info about knock retard
but I don't know if you would be able to
"control" it. Seems like a TMO
datalogger for OBDII cars.
Hope
this helps
Troy '96 VR-4 Spyder
Ken Middaugh brought it to my
attention that there are 3 protocols in use:
>
>'91-'93 DRB II, the
TMO works with this
>'94-'95 Some hybrid protocol, but uses an OBD II
connector
>late '95+ OBD II, there are numerous tools, but none have Knock
Sum
readings like the TMO
>
I do not know which program my brother
will be able to use best, but if he
has all 3, then he can make his own
judgement call.
Thanks to all that are as eager to solve this as I
am.
-
-MIKE-
aa2345@wayne.edu95 Red VR4
Apexi AVC-R
Electronic Boost Controller
K&N FIPK, Boost Gauge, EGT
Meter
John, brother
iraicu@cs.wayne.edu94 Pearl Yellow
TT
Apexi AVC-R Electronic Boost Controller
K&N FIPK, Boost Gauge, EGT
Meter
G Teck 0-60 (4.9 sec) Top speed after mods 169
mph
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:33:29
-0800
From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: '97 SOHC to 200+ hp? (Correction!)
My last post -
correction!!! I was looking in the wrong price
column... You'll
get only ~$16-18k for your '97 base, but pay $18-20k
for a '95 VR-4.
You'll be down about the same money you would have
spent for modding your '97
base up to 200HP. But you'll still need the
aftermarket warranty on top
of that...
Sorry for the miscalculation....
F
- -----
Original Message ----- From: "Bob Forrest" <
bf@bobforrest.com>
> With
FIPK/resonator you'll pick up (arguably) ~10HP, and maybe another
20HP
from
> the ported/polished intake (if you get a bigger throttlebody with
it);
this may
> justify your proposed exhaust mods, which might get you
to around
200HP
> (+/-5)... If you don't put out a substantial
amount more exhaust
gases from
> these intake mods, removing
backpressure through a freer-flowing
exhaust system
> will actually
*slow* you off the line, although it will also give you
a bit more
>
top end. BTW, a "true" dual exhaust will have a separate system
off
each bank
> of cylinders - your mod will still be a single, split
exhaust. You
might add an
> eRAM electric SuperCharger (works
only at WOT) for an additional
12-15HP or so.
> Sounds like around $3k
for your plan...
>
> OR
>
> You can trade in your '97
base (you'll get around $22-25k for it) and
buy a '95
> VR4 (nicer
lines anyway, IMO...) from a dealer for a bit less $, WITH
an
>
aftermarket warranty to make up the price difference in your favor.
You'll
be
> selling at wholesale and buying at retail, but you'll have your
dream
car - see
> our prices page for real numbers:
>
www.Team3S.com/FAQ-3Sprices.htm>
>
Best,
>
> Forrest
>
> > I have been looking around
the internet to find out
> > just what I need to do in order to get my
'97 base
> > coupe over 200hp. I'm trying to hit 200hp +
so
> > hopefully my current car will tide me over until I pay
>
> it off and then am able to get a VR4. These are the
> > mods
I am looking at right now to reach my goal.
> > Please let me know if
A)they will make 200+ hp or B)
> > what else I need to reach this
goal. Bear in mind I am
> > trying to do this for as little money
as possible...
> >
> > K&N FIPK (already
installed)
> > Port and polish intake
> > Free flow custom
exhaust with precats removed and a
> > free flow main cat split to true
dual exhaust in the
> > rear.
> > 93 octane pump gas (already
"installed")
> > Octane booster fuel additive (???)
>
>
> > Would this help me to reach or surpass the 200hp mark?
>
> What else could I do that would be relatively
> > inexpensive to
get a little more spunk from my SOHC
> > base 3000GT? Any help
would be appreciated.
> >
> > --Travis
> > '97 3000GT
(Base + K&N FIPK sans Resonator Bottle /
Red)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:35:16
-0800
From: Ken Middaugh <
Kenneth.Middaugh@gat.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: TMO Datalogger on 94-95, OBDI/II???
Hi Mike &
John,
> As some of you already know, Ken Middaugh and Jeff (Spyder
VR4) are
> currently working on getting the TMO DATALOGGER software to
work with the
> 2nd gen cars.
I'm afraid you have misunderstood
me. I am not currently working on a
datalogger for any car. I, as
well as many others, are definitely interested in
one for the '94-'95 3S cars
though. Also, Jeff's post I sent you was from May,
2000. As he
stated this morning, he has given up with no success.
(More
Below)
> I was wondering if any of you guys know of anywhere
where I can obtain some
> tables of conversion factors between the VOLTAGE
VARIANCE on each wire (eg.
> going into/out of the ECU) and a readable and
meaningful signal for us such
> as SPEED, RPM, BOOST etc... There
must be such a table that is probably
> standard across the board, because
APEXI was able to make our AVC-R boost
> controllers read all those
signals and give them a numerical value that is
> meaningful to us.
It's true that there were a few settings to program the
> unit (6
cylinders, throttle position...) but it seems like there should be a
>
standard conversion table for all V6 Japanese engines.
>
> If we had
a table like this, my brother, John, could probably make a
> different
program for our 2nd gen cars (that would take the signal from the
> OBDII
connector, pass it through a serial port, convert the voltages to
>
meaningful signals, and reccord them allong with a time signature).
>
> But maybe he can disect/decompile the DATALOGGER program, if anybody
has it
> and is willing to give it to him. He has an FTP account
that he is going to
> change the password temporarily to allow people to
FTP the program to him if
> they wish to do so. If you have any
software that you think might be useful
> to us and you have the means of
FTP'ing, please let me or John know.
>
> Ken Middaugh brought it to
my attention that there are 3 protocols in use:
> >
>
>'91-'93 DRB II, the TMO works with
this
> >'94-'95 Some hybrid
protocol, but uses an OBD II connector
> >late
'95+ OBD II, there are numerous tools, but none
have Knock Sum
> readings like the TMO
> >
> I do not know
which program my brother will be able to use best, but if he
> has all 3,
then he can make his own judgement call.
There are two ways (that I can
think of) to implement a datalogger: utilizing
hardware & software
OR utilizing software only. I'll try to clarify for you.
The Apex SAVC-R
directly reads only a few ECU wires. It reads: 1) pulses for
RPM
or Injectors; 2) voltage for throttle position; 3) pulses for
speed. The
other wires are power and grounds. These wires are
easy to figure out, i.e. a
pulse for each revolution or injector
"firing". However for a datalogger tool,
you would need to monitor a
lot more ECU wires and figure out their "values".
To do this, you would need
a hardware data acquisition system consisting of AtoD
converters, a bus, etc.
as well as a computer and cable. This is a more
expensive and difficult
way to implement a datalogger.
Current diagnostic tools utilize the
diagnostic port for the ECU since it is
much easier to implement. This
port provides a serial protocol for
communicating with the ECU. All you
need is a computer, an appropriate cable,
and a specification of the protocol
used. Hence is will be cheaper and easier
to implement a datalogger
this way.
Currently, there are tools available for all the above
protocols & years. The
TMO Datalogger is available for
'91-'93. This provides the best functionality
since it provides a knock
sum measurement that tools for the '94+ cars lack.
For the '94-'95 cars,
there are expensive OBD II tools that can also communicate
with individual,
company proprietary OBD I protocols. There are also numerous
&
inexpensive OBD II tools available too for the late '95+ cars.
Since the tools for the '94-'95 cars are expensive and they don't
provide a
knock sum measurement, lots of folks would be interested in
obtaining/developing
our own datalogger. To do this, the biggest
obstacle would be obtaining the
protocol that Mitsubishi used for their
specific OBD I implementation. If
someone is seriously interested in
pursuing this development, John perhaps ;), I
could try to obtain the
Mitsubishi OBD I protocol from contacts I have at the
California Air
Resources Board (I worked on their Motor Vehicle Data Acquisition
System
MVDAS from '93 to '97 ;)). Programming from scratch wouldn't be
too
difficult. I don't recommend pirating the TMO software.
- --
If you lived in your car, you'd be home by now.
Ken Middaugh (858)
455-4510
General Atomics
San Diego
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:54:22
-0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Attn: AutoX/Road racers..
The last AutoX I did was a set of
Rich Merritt's Yoko A032R tires on the
front and the stock Pirelli P-Zero
street tires on the back. I also pumped
the rear tires to 5 psi more
than the front to help them not stick as well
and/or to help the back end
step out easier for those sharp little turns.
Incidentally I beat a
Testarossa so it must have worked (actually it was the
first time that guy
raced his car in a year so he forgot how it handled).
Still, I like to brag
about that one. In the very sharp corners the car
still understeered
and left-foot braking helped in all other turns.
This weekend I will be
at Nelson Ledges in Ohio with the same set from Rich
for the fronts since
they are road racing tires (Yoko A032R 245/40/17) and
none other than the
2000 Solo II National Champ Kent Rafferty's tires on the
back (Kumho
Victoracer 245/40/17) since these are for AutoX but better than
the Pirelli
street tires. Email me after next weekend for an update. I
also
have some 275-size tires to use but probably only for AutoX and only if
the
sidewall is stiff enough as Matt J. brought this to our
attention
earlier.
- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com3Si
#577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK, a custom spark plug plate, and tires
from the
2000 Solo II National Champ Kent Rafferty
http://www.ec3s.org/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi-
-----Original Message-----
From: John Christian [
mailto:jczoom_619@yahoo.com]
Sent:
Monday, October 30, 2000 10:36 AM
To: George Kuo;
team3S@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Attn: AutoX/Road racers..
Hi all,
You pose an
interesting question.
For an AWD you'd have to make sure the
rolling dia of
the fronts and backs were almost equal.
If you don't
have AWD, then I'd put wider/stickier
tires on the front.
Handling
WILL be different for sure.
I wouldn't experiment on a road
course. I'd try that
on an autoX course first.
Goeff Moher
might have an opinion.
Be of good cheer,
John
- ---
George Kuo <
amkreadgto@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
What's your opinon on putting race tires in the
> fronts
> and
street tires in the rear?
>
> Since our cars have more problem with
under steer..
>
> Thanks,
> George
>
> p.s. got
a spare set of 2nd gen/spyder rims this
> weekend!! =) ... one step
closer..
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:58:30
-0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Helmet Requirements
I learned the big difference between Car
and Motorcycle helmets when I
bought mine last year.
The car helmets
are more flame resistant/fire retardant than the Bike
helmets are. This
is because in the event of a crash you are usually thrown
from your
motorcycle and rarely get trapped in a motorcycle fire. However,
in a
car fire you are usually strapped in with a harness or a seatbelt and
might
have to endure a few seconds of flames licking at your head.
This is also
when wearing cotton or a driving suit helps over blue jeans.
The race course
director said that the rivets in blue jeans get so hot they
will burn you
even though your skin is fine.
Again - what is your life and safety
worth? :-)
- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com3Si
#577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK, a Valentine One, and a custom spark
plug plate
http://www.ec3s.org/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi-
-----Original Message-----
From: John Christian [
mailto:jczoom_619@yahoo.com]
Sent:
Monday, October 30, 2000 10:47 AM
To: Trent; Team 3S
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Helmet Requirements
Hi Trent,
Most clubs require Snell 95
SA. If you don't have a
helmet yet buy one with the latest Snell rating
and
make sure it is SA (not M). 'M" is Motorcycle.
For price,
The saying is "What is your head worth?"
$50 $500
$1000
Consider the full face with the plastic shield. The
shield
will keep rain, blood from the deer/ground hog
from temporarilly blinding you
during an incident and
maybe let you keep control of your car.
-
--- Trent <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
wrote:
> Do any of our regular club racers know what the
> minimum
requirements are for
> helmets? Is Snell 95 sufficient, or do I need
an
> additional fireproof
> certification?
>
> Thanks
in advance,
> DaveT/92TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:21:05
-0500
From: "Trent" <
bdtrent@netzero.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Softest Springs
All,
Would anyone out there experienced
with spring mods be willing to speculate
on which drop kit offers the most
minimal loss of ride quality? The Eibach
kit claims a 1.3in. drop while
the H&R kit claims a 1in. drop. I have to
assume the H&R kit
will have a slightly softer spring rate since most of the
kit suppliers don't
list actual rates.
Thanks in
advance,
DaveT/92TT
____________NetZero Free Internet Access and
Email_________
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___________________________________________________________
***
Info:
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***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:13:47
-0600
From: Bob <
r4381576@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: Tour Light On Now:Does This Affect Suspension?]]
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From:
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bf@bobforrest.com>
To: "Bob" <
r4381576@earthlink.net>
References:
<
39FE26C0.E24F7A99@earthlink.net>
Subject:
Re: Tour Light On Now:Does This Affect Suspension?]
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000
18:10:19 -0800
X-Priority: 3
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You sent this to me instead of the list...
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Bob" <
r4381576@earthlink.net>
To:
<
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Monday, October 30, 2000 5:56 PM
Subject: Tour Light On Now:Does This Affect
Suspension?]
> Thank you Nikos,
>
> I tried what you
said and did hear the
> actuators when I switched to Sport
>
mode and back to tour mode. The lights
> lit up
correctly/respectively too. I don't
> know if the suspension
was working
> before or not in tour mode: maybe hitting
> a
curb or two helped jar something loose
> (or I just need to check the
bulb). lol
> Thanks for the help. Bob
>
>
***********************************
> Just check the bulb. To check if the
suspension is working, turn the
key
> On
> without to start the
engine. The ECS automatically goes to TOUR mode.
> Then
>
press the ECS mode sw and you can listen the actuators adjusting the
>
absorbers to the Sport mode. If the SPORT TOUR indication is not
>
flashing
> then you have not alarm of malfunction.
>
> Nikos
the Greek
> 92' RT TT
>
-
--------------9647C37EC06DB2FCF5B04B77--
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:07:45
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: TMO Datalogger on 94-95, OBDI/II???
> >'91-'93 DRB II,
the TMO works with this
> >'94-'95 Some hybrid protocol, but uses an
OBD II connector
> >late '95+ OBD II, there are numerous tools, but
none have Knock Sum
> >readings like the TMO
> The knock sum
is calculated by using special programming techniques that
> allows the
Microcontroller free register to be programmed. It's the secret
> from
Todd Day how he did it :) This is not possible in OBDII, i.e. the
>
microcontroller doesn't accept those commands anymore, therefore
no
chance.
> Also to start with the TMO is not a good idea as it is
made for the DSM
cars
> and not for ours (it just works halfway on
ours).
But the '94-95 ECUs with the hybrid setup are not OBD-II, they are
something
else which should at least allow a ray of hope. I'd assume
(possibly
incorrectly) that it is at least something that Mitsubishi or Dodge
used
somewhere else that is documented "somewhere". Maybe nothing will
pan out,
but I for one would encourage anyone who thinks they want to give it
a shot
to go ahead and try their ideas. If a product is produced out of
the
research, I will buy it.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:30:38
-0500
From: "Mihai Raicu" <
aa2345@wayne.edu>
Subject: Team3S: RE:
TMO DATALOGGER QUESTION: APOLOGY
To Everyone On 3S List,
I wanted
to formally apologize out in the open to the entire list for my
misconduct
for the past few days. I have been trying to obtain a copy of
Todd
Day's TMO software from you guys. It was wrong what I tried to do.
The
fact that I did not have bad intentions does not excuse me from trying
to do
what I did. As of right now, I do not have the TMO software nor am
I
going to try to get it anymore. I hope Todd can forgive my honest
mistake
and accept my apology.
I always admired people with multiple
hobbies, especially in diverse fields.
Todd certainly qualifies as one of
them (computer programming and cars).
What he has accomplished for the people
owning 1st gen DSM's and TT/VR4s is
great. Along with my brother, we
will try to make something for our two 2nd
gen TT and VR4. We will do
this by pursuing other avenues than we initially
started. I do not know
if we can do it yet, but if we can, you guys will be
the first to find out
about it.
- -MIKE-
PS. As a last note for the record:
After a few private e-mails between
Todd and myself, I sent him an apology
letter as well. He did not make a
big deal out of it to the 3S list,
and I admire that as well.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:44:55
-0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@flash.net>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: RE: TMO DATALOGGER QUESTION: APOLOGY
Um, I take it that Todd was
unhappy about you decompiling his software???
Personally, I think that it
would be a great starting point for what you are
trying to do... I also
think that Todd should either spend some extra time
and try to update his
software to work with the 3000GT ECU in the
'94 -'95/'96 cars, instead of
sitting on what he has right now. Also, a few
updates specific to the
3/S ECU would be nic e- i think some people
reported
inaccurate/unproportionate RPM readings. Anyway, if Todd
doesn't do it,
someone else no doubt will, and we are all a big family here -
lets all try
to work together on this, including Todd. It would make
things alot easier
on some...
- -Cody
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Mihai Raicu
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 10:31 PM
To:
Stealth
Cc: Ioan Raicu
Subject: Team3S: RE: TMO DATALOGGER QUESTION:
APOLOGY
To Everyone On 3S List,
I wanted to formally apologize
out in the open to the entire list for my
misconduct for the past few
days. I have been trying to obtain a copy of
Todd Day's TMO software
from you guys. It was wrong what I tried to do.
The fact that I did not
have bad intentions does not excuse me from trying
to do what I did. As
of right now, I do not have the TMO software nor am I
going to try to get it
anymore. I hope Todd can forgive my honest mistake
and accept my
apology.
I always admired people with multiple hobbies, especially in
diverse fields.
Todd certainly qualifies as one of them (computer programming
and cars).
What he has accomplished for the people owning 1st gen DSM's and
TT/VR4s is
great. Along with my brother, we will try to make something
for our two 2nd
gen TT and VR4. We will do this by pursuing other
avenues than we initially
started. I do not know if we can do it yet,
but if we can, you guys will be
the first to find out about it.
-
-MIKE-
PS. As a last note for the record: After a few private
e-mails between
Todd and myself, I sent him an apology letter as well.
He did not make a
big deal out of it to the 3S list, and I admire that as
well.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:12:53
-0700
From: "Barry E. King" <
beking@home.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
RE: TMO DATALOGGER QUESTION: APOLOGY
Breaking intellectual property laws
is a starting point I doubt many here,
if any, would consider
"great".
The ethical and mature thing to do would be to show Todd Day
support and
that there is enough interest in this endeavor to make it worth
his while.
Someone will also have to provide him with cars. So far this
apparently
hasn't been the case over the last several years.
Even with
support he simply may not have the desire to do this which is
obviously is at
his sole discretion.
I have corresponded with two different ODB experts
regarding the
transitional 94/95 VR4 ECUs. The protocol is non-standard
and reportedly
exhibits some "anomalies". In any case it was suggested
that given enough
time and interest a scan tool could be developed by reverse
engineering the
protocol. It was explained quite plainly that there
simply is not enough of
a market to make this economically viable as a
commercial venture.
For the money, why not just purchase the factory scan
tool as a group effort
and be done with it. The protocol could be
established through simple
observation since there would be known outputs for
a given input, and is far
more ethical than decompiling (read: stealing)
someone else's property.
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
>
> Um, I take it that Todd was unhappy about you
decompiling his software???
>
> Personally, I think that it would be
a great starting point for
> what you are trying to do...
> I also
think that Todd should either spend some
> extra time
> and try to
update his software to work with the 3000GT ECU in the
> '94 -'95/'96
cars, instead of sitting on what he has right now.
> Also, a few
>
updates specific to the 3/S ECU would be nic e- i think some
> people
reported
> inaccurate/unproportionate RPM readings. Anyway, if Todd
doesn't do it,
> someone else no doubt will, and we are all a big family
here -
> lets all try
> to work together on this, including
Todd. It would make things
> alot easier
> on
some...
>
> -Cody
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:31:08
-0600
From: "cody" <
overclck@flash.net>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: RE: TMO DATALOGGER QUESTION: APOLOGY
I meant if someone was
willing to give someone else rights to use thier
"intellectual property" it
would be a great thing....
Besides, what if one were to purchse the TMO,
then decompile it for their
own personal use on their own car, and maybe
distribute source for an update
for other people???
In Effect,
everyone wishing to use a TMO would buy one from Todd, for
years
'91-'95. Then, the magical person who has reverse engineered his
software
would "give" everyone who has bought a datalogger the updated source
code if
they have the non-obd1/obd2/some sort of hybrid ecu in their
car. Maybe
even work with Todd to get it right, and to distribute it
"safely" as to not
let everyone in the world have it...
-
-Cody
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st[
mailto:owner-team3s@stealth-3000gt.st]On
Behalf Of Barry E. King
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 11:13 PM
To:
Team3S
Subject: RE: Team3S: RE: TMO DATALOGGER QUESTION:
APOLOGY
Breaking intellectual property laws is a starting point I
doubt many here,
if any, would consider "great".
The ethical and
mature thing to do would be to show Todd Day support and
that there is enough
interest in this endeavor to make it worth his while.
Someone will also have
to provide him with cars. So far this apparently
hasn't been the case
over the last several years.
Even with support he simply may not have the
desire to do this which is
obviously is at his sole discretion.
I have
corresponded with two different ODB experts regarding the
transitional 94/95
VR4 ECUs. The protocol is non-standard and reportedly
exhibits some
"anomalies". In any case it was suggested that given enough
time and
interest a scan tool could be developed by reverse engineering
the
protocol. It was explained quite plainly that there simply is not
enough of
a market to make this economically viable as a commercial
venture.
For the money, why not just purchase the factory scan tool as a
group effort
and be done with it. The protocol could be established
through simple
observation since there would be known outputs for a given
input, and is far
more ethical than decompiling (read: stealing) someone
else's property.
Barry
> -----Original
Message-----
>
> Um, I take it that Todd was unhappy about you
decompiling his software???
>
> Personally, I think that it would be
a great starting point for
> what you are trying to do...
> I also
think that Todd should either spend some
> extra time
> and try to
update his software to work with the 3000GT ECU in the
> '94 -'95/'96
cars, instead of sitting on what he has right now.
> Also, a few
>
updates specific to the 3/S ECU would be nic e- i think some
> people
reported
> inaccurate/unproportionate RPM readings. Anyway, if Todd
doesn't do it,
> someone else no doubt will, and we are all a big family
here -
> lets all try
> to work together on this, including
Todd. It would make things
> alot easier
> on
some...
>
> -Cody
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 00:32:49
-0600
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: RE: TMO DATALOGGER QUESTION: APOLOGY
> I meant if someone
was willing to give someone else rights to
> use thier "intellectual
property" it would be a great thing....
Sure, but Todd has put in a lot
of hard work to create the Datalogger. I
don't think he'd want to give
it away.
> Besides, what if one were to purchse the TMO, then
decompile
> it for their own personal use on their own car, and
maybe
> distribute source for an update for other
people???
Decompile for their own personal use wouldn't be in conflict
with
intellectual property laws, provided that any license agreement that
TMO
provides with the datalogger doesn't prohibit it. Giving the
sourcecode
away would be completely unacceptable, however. I could see
maybe supplying
patches or something, but giving away someone else's
intellectual property
is a very bad thing. Besides, have you ever
decompiled object code into
sourcecode and tried to make sense of it?
Not so easy, even on programs
that you've written yourself! Outputted
source from automated tools is far
from "usable" source in most
cases.
I'd urge people to NOT go down this path. We are lucky that
the datalogger
works at all on any 3/S car. Don't ruin it for the
people whose cars it
does work on! If you want to help make something
happen, then the best way
would be to try to figure out the protocol on the
connector of the
middle-generation cars and supply the specs to Todd and ask
him if he would
be willing to incorporate the changes into the datalogger
software. There
would also have to be a different datalogger end
connector created to fit
the OBD-II connector style. If he decides that
it isn't in his best
interest to do so, then use the information obtained in
discovering the OBD
protocol to construct our own datalogger, NOT using
Todd's design or
software as a starting place, but rather starting from
scratch.
In discovering the protocol, we'd have to decide if it is closer
to OBD-II
or closer to the proprietary Mitsubishi OBD-I protocol that the 1G
cars and
1G DSM cars use. If it is closer to OBD-II, then we would want
to talk to
Alex Peper or someone who makes an OBD-II scan tool since it would
be easier
to make that work with just software changes.
I'm thinking
though, that making a general-purpose datalogger that takes
input direct from
the ECU lines would be easier in a lot of respects. You
can calculate
timing advance from the difference between the crank angle
sensor and the
coil signal, injector pulsewidth, Karman frequency, intake
temp, O2 sensor(s)
readings, RPM and speed. Most of those are time-based
events that you
can count durations/times per second and convert it into a
readable format
and plot it or just straight voltage samples. You could
also hook up
leads to other signal lines like the fuel-pressure-regulator to
see when that
is turned on, or the fuel pump relay, or whatever else you
wanted which is a
binary signal (on or off). At least that could be used on
potentially
many cars so there could be a higher return on the effort
financially for
someone willing to tackle the project.
One thing you wouldn't get is the
"knock sum" stored in the ECU itself.
You'd have to infer that from the
timing advance and injector pulsewidth.
Still, that would be better than
what some of us have now - which is
nothing, or next to nothing. I can
hook my datalogging multimeter to the O2
sensors, but that doesn't do much
without a reference to RPM, and is nowhere
near what you really need to
see. Building some custom conversion hardware
also has the benefit of
being able to increase the sample rate if we needed
to. That starts to
get complicated if you need to buffer data onboard the
"device", but its
still possible. You could use off-the-shelf A/D
conversion hardware and
sampling software for a start.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:33:31
-0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Off Topic: Joke: Top 10 reasons racing is (almost) better than se
x
TOP TEN REASONS RACING IS (ALMOST) BETTER THAN SEX
10. It's
socially acceptable to do it while others watch ...
9. Bigger cars don't
necessarily get more attention ...
8. The phone won't ring while you're in
the middle of the race ...
7. You get to use your rubber more than once ...
6. You don't have to sit through a dinner and a movie beforehand ...
5.
You and the car always finish at the same time ...
4. You always know
exactly where to put your hands ...
3. You drive as hard as you can, right
from the git-go ...
2. The quicker you finish, the better you are ...
1.
You can do it more than once in one afternoon ...
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:44:31
-0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Softest Springs
Dave,
They don't list
spring rates because you get to make your own spring
rates with the
kits. The Eibach Pro Kit, H&R, and one other one (at 1.75"
of drop)
all have different rates. And if you get progressive springs then
you
can have to different spring rates in one spring. And it is all
a
matter of feel since some people only race their car and want a stiff
rate
(650/450 front/rear) whereas others are half racer half street car and
want
rates stiffer than stock but not too stiff (450/350) or something like
that.
The only kits you can't customize as far as rates go are
the coilover
kits (Ground Control for example). However, as Ken
Middaugh says ... all it
takes is money and you can do anything.
-
--Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com3Si
#577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK, a custom spark plug plate, and race
tires from
the 2000 Solo II National Champion Kent Rafferty's Toyota Supra
<big grin>
http://www.ec3s.org/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi-
-----Original Message-----
From: Trent [
mailto:bdtrent@netzero.net]
Sent:
Monday, October 30, 2000 7:21 PM
To: Team 3S
Subject: Team3S: Softest
Springs
All,
Would anyone out there experienced with spring mods
be willing to speculate
on which drop kit offers the most minimal loss of
ride quality? The Eibach
kit claims a 1.3in. drop while the H&R kit
claims a 1in. drop. I have to
assume the H&R kit will have a
slightly softer spring rate since most of the
kit suppliers don't list actual
rates.
Thanks in advance,
DaveT/92TT
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:46:19
-0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Off Topic: Joke: Drag race of the year
Drag Race of the year
I
borrowed my wife's Geo Metro last night. One litre of raw power,
3cylinders
of asphalt-tearing terror on thirteen-inch rims. It's
stock,alright, nothing
done to it, but it pushes the barely 2000 pounds of
Metro around with
AUTHORITY. I'm always catching mopeds and 18-wheelers by
surprise...I was
headed back from Baskin Robbins with my manly triple-latte
cappuccinoblast
("No Cinnamon, ma'am, I take it BLACK"), when I stopped at a
streetlight. As
the Metro throbbed its throaty idle around me, I sipped my
bold beverage and
wiped the white froth my stiff upper lip. I was minding my
own business, but
then I heard a rev from the next lane.I turned, made eye
contact, then let my
eyes trace over the competition.Ford Festiva -- a late
model, could be
trouble.
Low profile tires, curbfeelers, and schoolbus-yellow paint. Yep,
a hot rod,
for sure.The howl of his motor snapped my reverie, and I looked
back into
the driver's eyes, nodded, then blipped my own throttle. As I
tugged on my
driving gloves and slipped on my sunglasses (gotta look cool to
be fast, and
I am *damn* cool, hence...), the night was split with the sound
of seven
screaming cylinders...Then the light turned...I almost had him out
of the
hole, my three pounding cylinders thrusting me at least a millimetre
back
into my seat, as smoke pouring from my front right tire...my unlimited
slip
differential was letting me down! I saw in the corner of my eyes, a
yellow
snout gaining,and I heard the roar of his four cylinders.
He
slung by me, right front wheel juddering against the pavement, and he
flashed
me a smile as his .7extra liters of motor stretched its legs. I kept
my foot
gamely in it,though, waiting for the CHECK ENGINE light to blink on
in the
one-gauge (no tachometer here!) instrument panel. I saw a glimpse of
chrome
under his bumper, and knew the ugly truth...He was running a custom
exhaust
-- probably a 2-into-1 dual exhaust...may be even cutouts! Damn his
hot-rod
soul!
The old lady passing us on the cross walk cast a dirty look in our
boy-racer
direction...Yet still I persisted, with my three pumping pistons
singing a
heady high-pitched song, wound fully out. Though only a few
handfuls of
seconds had passed, we were nearing the crosswalk at the other
side of the
intersection, and I heard the note of his engine change as he
made his shift
to second, and I saw his grin in his rearview mirror fade as
he missed the
shift! I rocketed by, shifting, and nursed the clutch gently in
to keep from
bogging, keeping my motor spinning hot and pulling me ahead, now
trailing a
cloud of stinking clutch smoke. Not ready to give up so easily,he
left his
foot in it, revving, and I heard one wheel *almost* chirp as he
finally
found second and dropped the clutch.
We careened over the
crosswalk, now going at least 15 miles per hour. A
bicyclist passed us, but
intent on the race as we were, neither of us batted
an eye.He pulled slowly
abreast of me, and neck and neck, we made the shift
to third, the scream of
motors deafening all pedestrians within a five
footcircle. He nosed ahead as
we passed 30 miles an hour, then eased in
front of me, taunting, as we
shifted into fourth. I was staring up the dual
6"chrome tips of his exhaust,
snarling, my cappuccino forgotten, as he
lifted a little to take the next
corner.I saw my opportunity, and counting
on the innate agility of my trusty
steed,I pulled wide into the number two
lane and kept my foot buried in
carpet.
Slowly, I inched around him, feeling my Metro roll slowly to the
left as I
came abreast in the midst of this gradual sweeping turn. I felt the
Geo ease
onto its suspension stops, and felt the right rear wheel slowly
leave the
ground - no matter, though, because my drive wheels, up front, were
pulling
me through the corner, and around the Festiva...The Ford driver beat
his
wheel in rage as my wife's car eased past him on the outside,
my
P165/54R13's screaming in protest, as we raced to the next light. We
coasted
down, neck-and neck, to the red light. I tightened my driving gloves,
ready
for another round, when this WIMP in the next car meekly flipped his
turn
signal and made a right. Chevy (Suzuki) superiorityreigns!!!I drove
off
sipping my masculine drink, awash in my sheer virility, looking for
other
unwitting targets...Perhaps a Yugo, or maybe even a
Volkswagon.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 14:19:16
+0000
From: Gordon Tyrrell <
gordon.tyrrell@openet-int.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Should I bother with these mild mods for the money?
I've just
read an add for and upgrade which involves going from 9B's up to 13G's
in
conjunction with a boost controller, 550cc injectors and an uprated
fuel
pump.
I already have the boost controller and fuel pump and am
impressed with the
gains I got by setting boost to .9bar (holds .8 to
redline).
I just started a new business so don't want to go mad and spend
a fortune on the
car and the extras for this upgrade would be around the
$2000 mark plus import
duty.
It appeals in that it's a bolt on mod and
we have very limited resources here to
do stuff like fuel controllers etc. I
was wondering if I could expect to get
decent gains for that sort of money or
am I just wasting the money?
Also, are there any mod shops in the Orlando
area as I'm over for a week in
December and it would save me the import duty
if I got it there and sneaked it
back through customs here :)
I've
asked these sort of questions before and gotten some great help but
it's
always been higher up the mod and spend scale which is out of the
question for
at least 6 months. The car is a 93 VR4 with just over 60k on the
clock (japanese
import)
I've also just ordered the TMO Datalogger in
case that helps.
Thanks in advance
Gordon
Dublin, Ireland
'93
Dark Metallic Grey VR4 (japanese import)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:31:04
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 275/40R17 on stock rims?
My son's running 255R40 17"
Yokohama's and they are just fine. Is the
rubbing because the diameter
needs to be less than 40% of 275 mm, like
275R35 or something less
(275R30)?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Christian
[
SMTP:jczoom_619@yahoo.com]
>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 7:42 AM
> To: Jeff; Team3S
> Subject:
Re: Team3S: 275/40R17 on stock rims?
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
>
Guess they only work on my stock '93 Stealth TT rims.
> I only
used them for Autocross in the parking lot and
> the SCCA meets at the
Connelsville airport.
> They only rubbed on the inner front
plastic.
> I ran the Yok's 275x40x17 008RSII
>
> Be of
good cheer,
> John
>
> --- Jeff <
spydervr4@home.com> wrote:
> >
Okay, I went ahead and got 2 of the 275 width tires
> > mounted on my
stock rims
> > and after seeing it, there's NO WAY I would use
them
> > for lapping. They
> > bulge WAY too much.
A friend of mine is going to
> > borrow them for use at the
>
> drag strip on his Supra, which I think will be fine,
> > but any
sort of
> > cornering is out of the question.
> >
>
> jeff
> > '95 Mitsubishi Spyder VR-4
> > '90 Mitsubishi
Eclipse GSX
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message
-----
> > From: "Michael Dorsey" <
mdorsey@mindspring.com>
> >
To: "'Team3S'" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 11:28 PM
> > Subject: RE: Team3S:
275/40R17 on stock rims?
> >
> >
> > ***
Info:
> >
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
>
>
> =====
> Please respond to
jczoom@iname.com> '93 TT with Porsche
brakes and Supra TT rotors
> 12.4@109MPH 5/97 almost stock
>
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You
Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
>
http://im.yahoo.com/>
>
*** Info:
http://www.stealth-3000gt.st/Team3S-Rules.htm
***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:38:20
CST
From: "Curt Gendron" <
curt_gendron@hotmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Softest Springs
I'd be interested in hearing some opinions on
this subject too. I'm going
through my own frustration with springs
right now.
On my old 95 R/T TT, I installed RSR springs which dropped the
car about
1.25 inches, and only stiffened up the ride quality
slightly. I think I
read that they were only 7% stiffer. RSR
does not import springs any longer
to the USA. So now on my new 95 R/T
TT, I bought Eibach springs. This
dropped the front by .75 inches and
the back didn't drop at all!!?? (and
yes, the springs were installed
correctly)
Mark Wendlandt was helping me with this now ugly
project. The next step was
we chopped 1.5 coils off the rear
springs. This dropped the rear by .75
inches. That is the way
the Stealth is today. I've got two problems with
it. First of
all, I was hoping for a little over a inch drop and the ride
is a little too
stiff for my liking.
I think the reason the rear of my Stealth didn't
drop, was the fact that the
95-96 Stealth's didn't have ECS
suspension. 3/Ses without ECS suspension
have a slightly narrower rear
spring than 3/Ses with ECS suspension. I'm
sure Eibach only tested
these springs on the earlier ECS cars. I'd be
curious to find out if
anyone out there has Eibach springs on a non-ECS 3/S
twin turbo.
My
next step in this project is probably to buy the ground control set up
with
a fairly soft spring rate. Does anyone know what the stock spring rate
is on the twin turbo 3/S, and what would you recommend for a spring rate
that is slightly stiffer than stock??
Thanks,
Curt
http://www.mn3s.org>From: "Trent"
<
bdtrent@netzero.net>
>To:
"Team 3S" <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
>Subject:
Team3S: Softest Springs
>Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:21:05
-0500
>
>All,
>
>Would anyone out there experienced with
spring mods be willing to speculate
>on which drop kit offers the most
minimal loss of ride quality? The Eibach
>kit claims a 1.3in. drop
while the H&R kit claims a 1in. drop. I have to
>assume the
H&R kit will have a slightly softer spring rate since most of
>the
>kit suppliers don't list actual rates.
>
>Thanks
in advance,
>DaveT/92TT
>
>
>____________NetZero Free
Internet Access and Email_________
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http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html>Request
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>***
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:34:50
-0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: 275/40R17 on stock rims?
Charles,
On this
site
http://www.dsm.org/tools/tiresize.htm<
http://www.dsm.org/tools/tiresize.htm>
you list the OEM size and it will
calculate what other sizes you can
run. When I put in 245/40/18 for a 1995
stock size it says I can go up
to a 277/40/17 to maintain speedometer and
odometer readings. It
doesn't mention anything about rubbing but perhaps
with a spacer or different
offset you could get the tire and/or wheel
farther from the rubbing
area.
- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com3Si
#577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK, a custom spark plug plate, and a
full
compliment of tires from 245 to 275 to be used once we determine what
fits
best (that makes 15 tires for one car ... not a bad average)
http://www.ec3s.org/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi-
-----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E. [
mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent:
Tuesday, October 31, 2000 9:31 AM
My son's running 255R40 17" Yokohama's
and they are just fine. Is the
rubbing because the diameter needs to be
less than 40% of 275 mm, like
275R35 or something less (275R30)?
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: John Christian [
SMTP:jczoom_619@yahoo.com]
>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 7:42 AM
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> Guess they only work on my stock '93 Stealth TT
rims.
> I only used them for Autocross in the parking lot
and
> the SCCA meets at the Connelsville airport.
> They only
rubbed on the inner front plastic.
> I ran the Yok's 275x40x17
008RSII
>
> Be of good cheer,
> John
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:46:20
-0500
From: "Schilberg, Darren" <
DSchilberg@freemarkets.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Softest Springs
Curt,
I have one of those
weird breed of cars ... it is a 1995 VR-4 (mfg in
11/94) with Active Aero,
Power Sunroof, but no ECS or Active Exhaust. On
the Eibach page it
notes a difference between the 1995 VR-4 with sunroof and
the VR04 without
sunroof. Yes there is suspension differences between the
two cars ...
crazy but true.
A friend of mine from the Rochester/Syracuse
area (link to picture
included here
http://www.flr-scca.com/solo/00divisional/photos/mvc-009x1.jpg)
runs Ground
Control but has the manual sunroof so his fits the catalog
perfectly.
I think Eibach told me the stock rate for my 1995
VR-4 was 350/250
front/rear and even getting a spring rate to match these but
in the Eibach
Pro Kit model will stiffen up the ride (since they are shorter)
so even a
shorter spring will make it feel different. It's all a
personal touch thing
but for those people commuting and racing occasionally I
think the 450 front
(rear won't change much) is a good step. 550 then
650 for the person who
races 50/50 and then 75/25 should be about right
too. Don't forget that
with springs come shocks and struts which
stiffen up the ride also unless
you get all those adjustable ones but I think
even the softest setting (on
GABs for instance) are still stiffer than
stock.
- --Flash!
dschilberg@freemarkets.com3Si
#577
1995 Black VR-4 w/ K&N FIPK, a custom spark plug plate, and
suspension mods
in the Spring hopefully
http://www.ec3s.org/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi-
-----Original Message-----
From: Curt Gendron [
mailto:curt_gendron@hotmail.com]
Sent:
Tuesday, October 31, 2000 9:38 AM
To:
team3s@stealth-3000gt.stSubject:
Re: Team3S: Softest Springs
I'd be interested in hearing some opinions on
this subject too. I'm going
through my own frustration with springs
right now.
On my old 95 R/T TT, I installed RSR springs which dropped the
car about
1.25 inches, and only stiffened up the ride quality
slightly. I think I
read that they were only 7% stiffer. RSR
does not import springs any longer
to the USA. So now on my new 95
R/T TT, I bought Eibach springs. This
dropped the front by .75 inches
and the back didn't drop at all!!?? (and
yes, the springs were installed
correctly)
Mark Wendlandt was helping me with this now ugly
project. The next step was
we chopped 1.5 coils off the rear
springs. This dropped the rear by .75
inches. That is the way
the Stealth is today. I've got two problems with
it. First of
all, I was hoping for a little over a inch drop and the ride
is a little too
stiff for my liking.
I think the reason the rear of my Stealth didn't
drop, was the fact that the
95-96 Stealth's didn't have ECS
suspension. 3/Ses without ECS suspension
have a slightly narrower rear
spring than 3/Ses with ECS suspension. I'm
sure Eibach only tested
these springs on the earlier ECS cars. I'd be
curious to find out if
anyone out there has Eibach springs on a non-ECS 3/S
twin turbo.
My
next step in this project is probably to buy the ground control set up
with
a fairly soft spring rate. Does anyone know what the stock spring
rate
is on the twin turbo 3/S, and what would you recommend for a spring
rate
that is slightly stiffer than stock??
Thanks,
Curt
http://www.mn3s.org***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:54:07
-0600
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Fluids - Redline?
My son and I are on our fourth
VR4.
We use Redline MT90 GL4 in the tranny and transfer case and Redline
75W90
GL5 in the rear axle and are happy. We don't flush, we just drain
and
refill. We always get the metal washers from the dealer for the six
drain
and fill ports.
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Rick H. [
SMTP:tt_3kgt@hotmail.com]
>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 2:09 PM
> To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Team3S: Fluids - Redline?
>
> List,
>
> I am looking to flush out my diff, tranny, and gearbox this
month with a
>
> aftermarket fluid. In the past, in previous
vehicals, I have used Royal
> Purple synthetic or Redline. I am not
familiar with these cars and would
> like to get an opinion from everyone
on past experience, etc. Thanks for
> all
> the info!
>
> Is there a FAQ or instruction for flushing fluids from
these pieces?
>
> Rick
> 93 3KGT VR4
>
_________________________________________________________________________
>
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>
> Share
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>
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>
>
> *** Info:
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***
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of team3s V1
#311
*********************
