Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Tuesday, September 11 2001
Volume 01 : Number
607
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Mon, 10 Sep 2001 22:04:44 -0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Ignition key won't come out
Why don't you try wiggling the
steering wheel and pushing the button at the
same time to release the
key. This works for American cars with the same
locking
device.
Sam
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 22:12:35
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Need a quick answer!! Please help!!
>Thank you all for the
help in a pinch, I got them installed. There is
>some noise going on, I'm
going to wait a few more days to see if it goes
>away, if not I'll be back
with some more questions on the Intrax for the
>TT's & VR4's. Thanks
again all for the help!
>
>Matt Nelson
>1994 RT TT
Mine was
making noise and it was the strut top mount (the piece with the
studs that go
through the fender). Also, I think the yellow plastic/rubber
jounce
bushing needs to be trimmed, but I am not sure-----the car hits small
bumps
and the whole car jars forcefully like its hit its full suspension
travel
even though that doesn't seem possible with such small compression.
I need to
investigate this further--but I think its these rubber pieces
being too long
now that the strut is limited by 1.75" of travel
now.
Sam
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 22:28:40
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Porterfield Rotors...actually Stillen sport rotors
Yes the
Stillen ones are which I was referring. I can't understand why my
car
can warp new rotors with one or two panic stops from 100+mph. I
thought
is was the hubs and replaced them, all the tie-rods on the rack are
new, cv
is new--lugs are always torqued to 90lb-ft in criss cross pattern by
me.
Its a total mystery how anyone could actually run races at the track
with
these things. I use stock brake pads and the brake fluid has more
then
60,000 miles (its clean/clear)--so maybe thats the
answer!?
Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E.
<
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
To:
Team3S <
team3s@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Date:
Monday, September 10, 2001 2:05 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Porterfield
Rotors...actually Stillen sport rotors
>I'm surprised - my
experience with the car candy has been pretty good. We
>ARE still
talking about the Stillen Sport rotors,
yes?
>
>Chuck
>
>> -----Original
Message-----
>> From: Sam Shelat [SMTP:sshelat@erols.com]
>>
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 2:08 PM
>> To: Jannusch, Matt;
Team3S
>> Subject: Re: Team3S: Porterfield
Rotors...
>>
>> .............yah, but they come with a
disclaimer that they are not for
>> track use. That was totally
unexpected, and when they warped only
>> slightly
>> less
quickly then the stock ones and very quickly after I had them
>>
machined
>> again (warped when I bought them), I knew they were
just car candy and
>> not
>> a real improvement at
all.
>>
>> Sam
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 19:51:57
-0700 (PDT)
From: John Christian <
jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Brief track report - TWS Lone Star PCA
Hi
Chuck,
The stick on lead weights that are placed on the inner
rim
surface can be better secured with a bead of glue
at all edges. But
it's simpler to use DUCT tape, the
racers salvation, over the whole string of
weights.
Be of good cheer,
John
- --- "Willis, Charles
E."
<
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
wrote:
>
> I noticed that I lost several lead wheel weights
>
this time. I need to see
> if there's a better way to secure these
things. Ran
>
=====
Please respond to
jczoom@iname.com'93 TT with Porsche
brakes and Supra TT rotors
12.4@109MPH
5/97 almost stock
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 22:06:08
-0500
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <
tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Which downpipe?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jannusch, Matt
<
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Friday, August 24, 2001 12:48 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Which
downpipe?
>
>That's the pipe I'm using right now, but am
considering switching to the
>Stillen or ATR pipe. The Alamo pipe's
fitment to the rear precat is pretty
>poor. The alignment is off by
a few degrees which makes the gasket not
seal
>all the way, and I
question whether the pipe is possibly even blocking part
>of the exhaust
output from the precat due to the poor fitment. My gasket
>comes out
with a carbonized 1" wide band on one side when I take the
>downpipe off,
so something isn't right. I know at least one other person
>who
complained of the same problem.
>
>The pipe has also rubbed against
part of the frame, although that could be
>because the front bulkhead on
my Spyder is specially reinforced compared to
>the standard VR4 coupe so
the dimensions are probably a little different.
>
>The flex section
on mine also disintegrated. Alamo was good enough to ship
>me a
replacement flex section, but you need to take the pipe to a shop to
>get
it welded onto the pipe yourself (unless you've got a TIG welder handy
>in
your garage).
>
>Overall, I do think it is a good downpipe, but
check the fitment on your
car
>carefully and return it if it doesn't
fit right. Its certainly possible
>that there are just a few bad
ones out there and that most are good.
>
>I've got a high-flow 3"
main cat on my car with flanges to mate between the
>stock or Alamo
downpipe and my Borla cat-back. Works great, but it seems
>difficult
to find testpipes for this setup. I know I could make one for
>about
$5, but I just haven't had time.
-
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
--
This is the first problem I've heard of with this DP.
Something
isn't right with the fitment of either your particular dp or
something is
different with the Spyder?
I know it's probably too late to replace or
return but this problem should
not have been accepted.
I have the
first dp Alamo made - they used my old Hennessey dp to build
a prototype when
my car was down and I got a better dp for free out of the
deal.
Seems
like it was around 96' or so? I've never had any problems at all.
We
had
my dp off the car a few weeks ago and there was no sign of carbon
on
gaskets, rubbing
frame or anything like that
............
Something just isn't right - if there were this many
inherent design flaws
everyone and
their dog would be posting about them,
returning them and giving Alamo hell.
I would be the first one in
line.
- - tds [catching up on email ......]
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 22:44:43
-0500
From: "Jannusch, Matt" <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Which downpipe?
> Something isn't right with the fitment
of either your
> particular dp or something is different with the
Spyder?
The motor is exactly the same as everyone else's, so the poor
fitment to the
rear precat is a problem not induced by my car. I can
accept that it
hitting the frame could be something about my car since the
front firewall
is reinforced somewhat over the stock car.
> I know
it's probably too late to replace or return
> but this problem should not
have been accepted.
The downpipe was on the car already from the previous
owner. I was the
first one to take it back off and inspect
it.
> Something just isn't right - if there were this many
>
inherent design flaws everyone and their dog would be
> posting about
them, returning them and giving Alamo hell.
Hmm, I think Oskar had the
same problem with his not lining up on the rear
precat correctly also.
I think his mentioning of the problem was what made
me think more carefully
about why the carbon was getting on the gasket and
then I realized that mine
didn't align correctly either. I don't recall if
Alamo did anything to
help him or not.
- -Matt
'95 3000GT Spyder VR4
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: 10 Sep 2001 21:40:53
-0700
From: John Monnin <
jkmonnin@altavista.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Is bypassing relay good idea?
Several members on 3si board have
bypassed the fuel pump relay so that the fuel pump get 12V all the time.
Is this going to cause other problems?
John Monnin
jkmonnin@altavista.comOriginal
message below
When the engine is running below 3000 rpm the first fuel
pump relay is active (to
keep the pump running) and the second relay
connects the resistor to the line to
lower the voltage to about 9 V to lower
stress to the pump as well to prevent too
much fuel pressure. After 3000 the
voltage is switched to 12V to provide full pressure
the pump can deliver.
The pump doesn\'t know anything about the pressure nor does
the ECU know.
This is onyl the fuel pressure regulator that is controlled by the
manifold
pressure that compensates for boost situations (where the injecors have
to
spray against)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 23:41:18
-0500
From: "Oskar" <
osk@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Which downpipe?
The problems have been noticed with second gen.
cars. I do not think it is
specific to the Spyder. Keep in mind
that the flange of the rear collector
is orientated differently on the second
gen. cars. I had this problem, and
I noticed it immediately when
installing the DP. It did bolt up, but it was
noticeably
off-center. Since I was going to the track I decided to use
it
anyway. When I later tore the DP off I could see the carbon buildup
on a
portion of the flange of the rear collector. There was definitely
a flow
problem with this setup. When Matt installed his 15Gs we noticed
the exact
same problem on his DP. His DP was probably purchased well
over a year
before I purchased mine.
I did return mine for a
refund. Alamo did not acknowledge the problem at
all, even after
receiving the DP. They reluctantly accepted the return only
after I
continued to bug them. I think it would be worth hearing from
others
with second gen. cars using the Alamo DP. You cannot really see
this
problem until the DP is removed.
Oskar
- ----- Original
Message -----
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <
tds@brightok.net>
>
--
>
> This is the first problem I've heard of with this
DP.
>
> Something isn't right with the fitment of either your
particular dp or
> something is different with the Spyder?
>
>
I know it's probably too late to replace or return but this problem
should
> not have been accepted.
>
> I have the first dp Alamo
made - they used my old Hennessey dp to build
> a prototype when my car
was down and I got a better dp for free out of the
> deal.
>
>
Seems like it was around 96' or so? I've never had any problems at
all.
We
> had
> my dp off the car a few weeks ago and there was
no sign of carbon on
> gaskets, rubbing
> frame or anything like
that ............
>
> Something just isn't right - if there were
this many inherent design flaws
> everyone and
> their dog would be
posting about them, returning them and giving Alamo
hell.
>
> I
would be the first one in line.
>
> - tds [catching up on
email ......]
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 00:09:31
-0500
From: "Todd D.Shelton" <
tds@brightok.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Which downpipe?
- -----Original Message-----
From: Oskar <
osk@mediaone.net>
To: Team3S <
team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Monday, September 10, 2001 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Which
downpipe?
>The problems have been noticed with second gen.
cars. I do not think it is
>specific to the Spyder. Keep in
mind that the flange of the rear collector
>is orientated differently on
the second gen. cars. I had this problem, and
>I noticed it
immediately when installing the DP. It did bolt up, but
it
was
>noticeably off-center. Since I was going to the track I
decided to use it
>anyway. When I later tore the DP off I could see
the carbon buildup on a
>portion of the flange of the rear
collector. There was definitely a flow
>problem with this
setup. When Matt installed his 15Gs we noticed the exact
>same
problem on his DP. His DP was probably purchased well over a
year
>before I purchased mine.
>
>I did return mine for a
refund. Alamo did not acknowledge the problem at
>all, even after
receiving the DP. They reluctantly accepted the
return
only
>after I continued to bug them. I think it would be
worth hearing from
>others with second gen. cars using the Alamo DP.
You cannot really see
this
>problem until the DP is
removed.
>
>Oskar
If there is a difference between 1st and 2nd gen in the area you
are
referring to
that could explain a lot.
I have the 1st gen of
course and I don't think Hennessey built anything
specifically
for the 2nd
gen - went to strictly Vipers around that time ............
It's all my
fault for letting them use my 1st gen Henn dp to build the
proto!
:)
Actually - I didn't know they were going to do this. The first
time I knew
something was up was when Chris Dotur left Alamo Arlington
with
a dandy used Hennessey dp around the time of the Temple drag
meet and
road race out by Weatherford. (My car was having
an extended stay at the shop
during this time period)
Next time I went down I found out about the
"new" production item.
B Fontana's 3K was stranded there as well
................ compression,
clutch ....
I don't think they realize
(or have acknowleged) a difference in fitment
between
1st and 2nd
gen?
What about other vender's dpipes? Do they make 2 different
versions for
1st and 2nd gen?
I'll be down there either this weekend
or next - I could inquire?
- - tds
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 01:00:43
-0500
From: "Oskar" <
osk@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Which downpipe?
>
> I don't think they realize (or have
acknowleged) a difference in fitment
> between
> 1st and 2nd
gen?
>
> - tds
Yes they do - they have two different
DPs. One for 91-93 (E133010), one for
94-up (E133011).
The issue
is not that they have not recognized this - the issue is that the
version
intended for the second gen. has been found to not fit very well on
at least
two cars.
The flange orientation is explained below. Quoted from an
e-mail sent by
Jack T on Wednesday, September 15, 1999 6:55 AM to the Team3S
list (remember
Sirius?):
"The 91-93 vs. 94+front precats are different
flange bolt orientation on the
distal end; and the 94 precat is SLIGHTLY
shorter, also. You can
not bolt one in place of the other, I
tried. I would definitely buy the
specific year fit downpipe from the
outset.
Jack Tertadian"
Oskar
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 04:26:57
-0700 (PDT)
From: John Christian <
jczoom_619@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Nice home town race track!
Hi Walt,
VIR was on my schedule
last year, but my Stealth broke
down. Hope to run VIR next
season. Let me know if
you get a group of 3S's together for an
event.
Be of good cheer,
John
- --- "WALTER D. BEST" <
WDBO39@erols.com> wrote:
> Everyone
I spoke to, DC Region SCCA Driver's have
> said this is a
beautiful
> track and to run the main course 3.27 miles is
>
supposed to be a real blast.
> Facilities are also real nice and it was
just
> remodeled and reopened about 2
> years ago.
>
>
Dave Best
> DC Region Tech Inspector
>
>
> -----
Original Message -----
> From: "Rick" <
melvin@gamewood.net>
> To:
"Team3S" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 2:23 AM
> Subject: Team3S: Nice home town
race track!
>
>
> > Thought some of you track
guys might wanna look
> into this track and
> > see if we could
use it.I have'nt really talked to
> anyone about that,so
> > feel
free if you like.Paul Newman(actor, race
> driver loves it),and it
>
> does look fun.
> >
http://www.virclub.com/index.htm>
> Might be a good place for a gathering.Think it's
> about done
for the
> > year now,but you might wann chack it out.
>
> RICK
Please respond to
jczoom@iname.com'93 TT with Porsche
brakes and Supra TT rotors
12.4@109MPH
5/97 almost stock
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/flats/4538***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 05:57:29
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Need a quick answer!! Please help!!
When you lower the
suspension (by using shorter springs) you will
likely have to cut the bump
stop. Measure the number of coils and the
coil thickness. Now calculate what
the coil length will be at full
compression (e.g., 6.5 coils at 0.5" each
would be 3.25"). Now look
at the distance from the base of the coil to the
top of the thick
(lower) part of the strut. Subtract that distance from the
spring's
compressed length to get the minimum thickness for the bump stop.
The
longer the stop, the sooner it will "engage" before the spring
reaches
maximum compression.
Stock struts and springs:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius8/j8-2-shockremoval.htmGC
kit with info on top bearing plate:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius8/j8-2-gc-springs.htmNeat
suspension Info:
http://www.geocities.com/chrislonghurst/suspension_bible.htmlJeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com- ---
Sam Shelat <
sshelat@erols.com>
wrote:
Mine was making noise and it was the strut top mount (the
piece
with the studs that go through the fender). Also, I think the
yellow
plastic/rubber jounce bushing needs to be trimmed, but I am
not
sure-----the car hits small bumps and the whole car jars
forcefully
like its hit its full suspension travel even though that doesn't
seem
possible with such small compression. I need to investigate
this
further--but I think its these rubber pieces being too long now
that
the strut is limited by 1.75" of travel now.
Sam
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:50:36
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Need a quick answer!! Please help!!
the yellow thing you are
describing is the bump stop. with the GC setup, we
have to cut the bump
stops roughly in half both front an rear. Jeff Lucius
shows this
nicely.
Chuck Willis
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Sam Shelat [SMTP:sshelat@erols.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001
5:13 PM
> To: BlackLight;
dschilberg@pobox.com;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Need a quick answer!! Please help!!
>
>
>
>
> >Thank you all for the help in a pinch, I got them
installed. There is
> >some noise going on, I'm going to wait a few
more days to see if it goes
> >away, if not I'll be back with some more
questions on the Intrax for the
> >TT's & VR4's. Thanks again all
for the help!
> >
> >Matt Nelson
> >1994 RT
TT
> Mine was making noise and it was the strut top mount (the piece with
the
> studs that go through the fender). Also, I think the
yellow
> plastic/rubber
> jounce bushing needs to be trimmed, but I
am not sure-----the car hits
> small
> bumps and the whole car jars
forcefully like its hit its full suspension
> travel even though that
doesn't seem possible with such small compression.
> I need to investigate
this further--but I think its these rubber pieces
> being too long now
that the strut is limited by 1.75" of travel now.
>
>
Sam
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:06:19
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Porterfield Rotors...actually Stillen sport
rotors
Sam,
I don't know why the difference in performance.
For a couple of seasons I
used Stillen metal matrix pads with the sport
rotors and didn't have a
warpage problem, but had a significant occasional
problem with molten pads.
First application = no brakes, second push =
grip. Also I always use Motul
and bleed the brakes after/before each
event. I started using Panther pads
last season and now use Panther
Plus pads. I do take the time to bed the
pads according to the
manufacturers instructions and turn the rotors usually
each event only to
remove the glaze, more if there is any warpage, which has
happenned but never
to all rotors and never to the extent to remove the
rotor from service.
Torque is same as yours 90 ft lbs (crisscross). I do
not do a cooldown
in the paddock except at Heartland Park. I have no brake
ducting yet,
but I HAVE replaced the front splash guard extensions in the
front of the
wheel wells with hardware cloth to increase airflow through the
intercoolers
to the front wheels. I also drive with Volk TE37 wheels which
seem to
have good airfow to the rotors and calipers. I have rebuilt the
stock
calipers and I have Goodridge stainless steel brake lines.
I have had to
make panic stops, but the usual is hard braking zones are
where you come from
120+ mph down to 90 mph (Turn 2 TWS), 90 mph down to a
downshift to 3rd (60
mph+?) Turn 3 TWS) for a hard right turn, maybe 80 mph
down to 30 mph and a
downshift to second (Turn 10 TWS). Otherwise we're not
really getting
close to threshold braking.
I really have no clue what goes on at a drag
race in terms of braking -
these are all road course DE's and not really
racing.
Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sam
Shelat [SMTP:sshelat@erols.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 5:29
PM
> To: Willis, Charles E.; Team3S
> Subject: Re: Team3S:
Porterfield Rotors...actually Stillen sport
> rotors
>
> Yes
the Stillen ones are which I was referring. I can't understand why
my
> car can warp new rotors with one or two panic stops from
100+mph. I
> thought
> is was the hubs and replaced them, all
the tie-rods on the rack are new,
> cv
> is new--lugs are always
torqued to 90lb-ft in criss cross pattern by me.
> Its a total mystery how
anyone could actually run races at the track with
> these things. I
use stock brake pads and the brake fluid has more then
> 60,000 miles (its
clean/clear)--so maybe thats the answer!?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:07:17
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Brief track report - TWS Lone Star PCA
I'll
try it after they balance the tires again!
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: John Christian [SMTP:jczoom_619@yahoo.com]
>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 9:52 PM
> To:
3sracers@speedtoys.com;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Subject: Team3S: Re: 3S-Racers: Brief track report - TWS Lone Star
>
PCA
>
> Hi Chuck,
>
> The stick on lead weights that
are placed on the inner
> rim surface can be better secured with a bead of
glue
> at all edges. But it's simpler to use DUCT tape, the
>
racers salvation, over the whole string of weights.
>
> Be of good
cheer,
> John
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:04:27
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject:
Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
I know this is off topic but our
hearts go out to those who may have been
injured in the recent New York City
World Trade Center attack. A friend of
mine emailed me that he works
across the street (or close by) and watched
the second plane hit the
building. Then on the tv I watched as they showed
the entire south
building collapsing into the streets. No doubt there is
massive
casualties.
Our hearts are with you all.
- --Darren
Schilberg
dschilberg@pobox.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:20:28
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
YES, and now let's all focus
on getting the rat bastards that did this ...
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Darren Schilberg [SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:04 AM
> To: Team3S
> Subject:
Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
>
> I know this is off
topic but our hearts go out to those who may have been
> injured in the
recent New York City World Trade Center attack. A friend
>
of
> mine emailed me that he works across the street (or close by) and
watched
> the second plane hit the building. Then on the tv I
watched as they
> showed
> the entire south building collapsing into
the streets. No doubt there is
> massive casualties.
>
> Our hearts are with you all.
>
> --Darren
Schilberg
>
dschilberg@pobox.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:22:06
-0500
From: "Berrios, Victor L CIV" <
VLBerrios@rroads.med.navy.mil>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
The Pentagon is also on
fire. Watch CNN
My heart and prayers are with all of
them.
Victor
- -----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles
E. [mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Tuesday, September 11,
2001 10:20 AM
To: Team3S
Subject: RE: Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade
Center
YES, and now let's all focus on getting the rat bastards that
did this ...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren
Schilberg [SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001
9:04 AM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade
Center
>
> I know this is off topic but our hearts go out to those
who may have been
> injured in the recent New York City World Trade Center
attack. A friend
> of
> mine emailed me that he works across
the street (or close by) and watched
> the second plane hit the
building. Then on the tv I watched as they
> showed
> the
entire south building collapsing into the streets. No doubt there
is
> massive casualties.
>
> Our hearts are with you
all.
>
> --Darren Schilberg
>
dschilberg@pobox.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 07:43:18
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Attacks continue..
Let me be the first to ask for a moment of
mental reflection on the horror
that has happened today.
Also, let us
please respect the global makeup of the SOGI list, and
refrain from any
generalizations concering who may or may not be
respobsible for such a
terrible thing.
Its crap, its painfull to watch, and God's Speed to the
victims and
families in this national moment of tragedy.
*New &
Improved:
http://www.speedtoys.com
*
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:48:46
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
I just watched one of the
towers collapse. I can't watch anymore. Any
residual sympathy in this
country for these people's cause has been
eliminated. Didn't they watch
the movie "Pearl Harbor"?
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Berrios, Victor L CIV [SMTP:VLBerrios@rroads.med.navy.mil]
> Sent:
Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:22 AM
> To:
'tEAM3S@STEALTH-3000GT.ST'>
Subject: RE: Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
>
> The
Pentagon is also on fire. Watch CNN
>
> My heart and prayers are
with all of them.
>
> Victor
>
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Willis, Charles E.
[mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, September
11, 2001 10:20 AM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: RE: Team3S: OT: Attack on
World Trade Center
>
>
> YES, and now let's all focus on
getting the rat bastards that did this ...
>
> > -----Original
Message-----
> > From: Darren Schilberg
[SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:04
AM
> > To: Team3S
> > Subject: Team3S: OT: Attack on World
Trade Center
> >
> > I know this is off topic but our hearts
go out to those who may have
> been
> > injured in the recent New
York City World Trade Center attack. A friend
> > of
> >
mine emailed me that he works across the street (or close by) and
>
watched
> > the second plane hit the building. Then on the tv I
watched as they
> > showed
> > the entire south building
collapsing into the streets. No doubt there
> is
> >
massive casualties.
> >
> > Our hearts are with you
all.
> >
> > --Darren Schilberg
> >
dschilberg@pobox.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:46:29
-0400
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: OT:
Attack on World Trade Center
Both towers are down. I've heard there was a
747 crashed 80 miles SE of
Pittsburgh. There are about 25 people in 3SI chat
right now relaying news.
Jeff Van.
- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Willis, Charles E.
Sent:
Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:49 AM
To:
'tEAM3S@STEALTH-3000GT.ST'Subject:
RE: Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
I just watched one of
the towers collapse. I can't watch anymore. Any
residual sympathy in
this country for these people's cause has been
eliminated. Didn't they
watch the movie "Pearl Harbor"?
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: Berrios, Victor L CIV [SMTP:VLBerrios@rroads.med.navy.mil]
>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:22 AM
> To:
'tEAM3S@STEALTH-3000GT.ST'>
Subject: RE: Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
>
> The
Pentagon is also on fire. Watch CNN
>
> My heart and prayers are
with all of them.
>
> Victor
>
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Willis, Charles E.
[mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, September
11, 2001 10:20 AM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: RE: Team3S: OT: Attack on
World Trade Center
>
>
> YES, and now let's all focus on
getting the rat bastards that did this ...
>
> > -----Original
Message-----
> > From: Darren Schilberg
[SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:04
AM
> > To: Team3S
> > Subject: Team3S: OT: Attack on World
Trade Center
> >
> > I know this is off topic but our hearts
go out to those who may have
> been
> > injured in the recent New
York City World Trade Center attack. A friend
> > of
> >
mine emailed me that he works across the street (or close by) and
>
watched
> > the second plane hit the building. Then on the tv I
watched as they
> > showed
> > the entire south building
collapsing into the streets. No doubt there
> is
> >
massive casualties.
> >
> > Our hearts are with you
all.
> >
> > --Darren Schilberg
> >
dschilberg@pobox.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:56:39
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
Maybe that is the remaining
highjacked plane they mentioned in the Eastern
Corridor. All other
aircraft are grounded or diverted to Canada.
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Jeff VanOrsdal [SMTP:jeffv@1nce.com]
> Sent:
Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:46 AM
> To: Team3s Tech List
>
Subject: RE: Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
>
> Both
towers are down. I've heard there was a 747 crashed 80 miles SE of
>
Pittsburgh. There are about 25 people in 3SI chat right now relaying
news.
>
> Jeff Van.
>
> -----Original
Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> Of Willis, Charles E.
>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:49 AM
> To:
'tEAM3S@STEALTH-3000GT.ST'>
Subject: RE: Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
>
>
>
I just watched one of the towers collapse. I can't watch anymore.
Any
> residual sympathy in this country for these people's cause has
been
> eliminated. Didn't they watch the movie "Pearl
Harbor"?
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
Berrios, Victor L CIV [SMTP:VLBerrios@rroads.med.navy.mil]
> >
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:22 AM
> > To:
'tEAM3S@STEALTH-3000GT.ST'>
> Subject: RE: Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
> >
>
> The Pentagon is also on fire. Watch CNN
> >
> > My heart
and prayers are with all of them.
> >
> > Victor
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Willis, Charles
E. [mailto:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
> > Sent: Tuesday,
September 11, 2001 10:20 AM
> > To: Team3S
> > Subject: RE:
Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
> >
> >
> >
YES, and now let's all focus on getting the rat bastards that did this
>
...
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >
From: Darren Schilberg [SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
> > > Sent:
Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:04 AM
> > > To: Team3S
> >
> Subject: Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
> > >
>
> > I know this is off topic but our hearts go out to those who may
have
> > been
> > > injured in the recent New York City
World Trade Center attack. A
> friend
> > > of
>
> > mine emailed me that he works across the street (or close by)
and
> > watched
> > > the second plane hit the
building. Then on the tv I watched as they
> > >
showed
> > > the entire south building collapsing into the
streets. No doubt there
> > is
> > > massive
casualties.
> > >
> > > Our hearts are with you
all.
> > >
> > > --Darren Schilberg
> > >
dschilberg@pobox.com***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:47:27
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
Yes a 747 is down in Somerset
county (about an hour SE of Pittsburgh, PA)
but I have not heard if this is
terrorist or just a "fluke" that made it
crash. Maybe it was a third
plane that was just reported to have been
hijacked in order to fly into the
Pentagon.
- -----Original Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Jeff VanOrsdal
Sent: Tuesday,
September 11, 2001 10:46 AM
To: Team3s Tech List
Subject: RE: Team3S: OT:
Attack on World Trade Center
Both towers are down. I've heard there
was a 747 crashed 80 miles SE of
Pittsburgh. There are about 25 people in 3SI
chat right now relaying news.
Jeff Van.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:06:31
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
There were two planes that
were 'unaccounted for' by the FAA as possible
hijacks as well.
This
could be one of them.
On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, Darren Schilberg
wrote:
> Yes a 747 is down in Somerset county (about an hour SE of
Pittsburgh, PA)
> but I have not heard if this is terrorist or just a
"fluke" that made it
> crash. Maybe it was a third plane that was
just reported to have been
> hijacked in order to fly into the
Pentagon.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> Of Jeff VanOrsdal
>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:46 AM
> To: Team3s Tech List
>
Subject: RE: Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
>
>
>
Both towers are down. I've heard there was a 747 crashed 80 miles SE of
>
Pittsburgh. There are about 25 people in 3SI chat right now relaying
news.
>
> Jeff Van.
*New & Improved:
http://www.speedtoys.com *
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:22:05
-0700
From: "Andrew D. Woll" <
awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
It seems to me that we have
watchdog agencies such as the CIA that have
lists of terrorist. Within these
lists, it seems to make sense that we
probably have a select few that are
known terrorist with information rising
to the 95th percentile. It is too bad
we also have federal laws prohibiting
our country from hunting these people
down and just shooting them. Maybe it
is time to change the
law.
Andy
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:19:12
-0600
From: "Floyd, Jim" <
Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
You got my vote.
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew D. Woll
[mailto:awoll1@pacbell.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:22 AM
To:
Willis, Charles E.; Team3S
Subject: Re: Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade
Center
It seems to me that we have watchdog agencies such as the CIA
that have
lists of terrorist. Within these lists, it seems to make sense that
we
probably have a select few that are known terrorist with information
rising
to the 95th percentile. It is too bad we also have federal laws
prohibiting
our country from hunting these people down and just shooting
them. Maybe it
is time to change the law.
Andy
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:15:20
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
In the recent past, the US
has not been averse to dropping a Cruise missile
or two on problem
areas. I am afraid we can expect two changes - less
aversion to direct
action by the US, more like the Brits, and sacrifice of
personal freedoms and
civil liberties that we have become accustomed to so
that agencies
responsible for enforcement can protect us more effectively.
Chuck
Willis
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew D. Woll
[SMTP:awoll1@pacbell.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:22
AM
> To: Willis, Charles E.; Team3S
> Subject: Re: Team3S: OT:
Attack on World Trade Center
>
> It seems to me that we have
watchdog agencies such as the CIA that have
> lists of terrorist. Within
these lists, it seems to make sense that we
> probably have a select few
that are known terrorist with information
> rising
> to the 95th
percentile. It is too bad we also have federal laws
> prohibiting
>
our country from hunting these people down and just shooting them. Maybe
>
it
> is time to change the law.
>
> Andy
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 09:27:25
-0700
From: "Darc" <
wce@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: OT:
Attack on World Trade Center
Obviously a group or country with the
resources to train adhock airline
pilots, rehearse co-ordinated airliner
hijackings, and fund this all, and
do it in secrecy, is at
the root of these horrific events. Assume plane
take overs were fast
and that flight crews were executed to prevent
interference. This has to be a
large group/cell, or a country. BTW Our air
traffic control boys (family
employees) are taxed to the limit taking your
diverted and now inbound
flights. Hopefully the RCMP will be screening
offloading, although likely all
designated hijacked/target planes and their
terrorists are history. This
plays out with the same feeling of dumbstruck
numbness and background fear as
was elicited by the Kennedy assassination so
long ago.
My deepest
empathy to your nation
Darc
Canada
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 11:49:04
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
Thanks for providing a safe
place to land!
Thanks also for your sympathetic feelings, but I think the
scope of this
mess sortof eclipses the murder of a single individual, icon or
not.
More like Pearl Harbor in many
respects.
Chuck
Texas
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Darc [SMTP:wce@telus.net]
> Sent: Tuesday,
September 11, 2001 11:27 AM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: Re: Team3S: OT:
Attack on World Trade Center
>
> Obviously a group or country with
the resources to train adhock airline
> pilots, rehearse co-ordinated
airliner hijackings, and fund this all,
> and
> do it in
secrecy, is at the root of these horrific events. Assume
plane
> take overs were fast and that flight crews were executed to
prevent
> interference. This has to be a large group/cell, or a country.
BTW Our air
> traffic control boys (family employees) are taxed to the
limit taking your
> diverted and now inbound flights. Hopefully the RCMP
will be screening
> offloading, although likely all designated
hijacked/target planes and
> their
> terrorists are history. This
plays out with the same feeling of dumbstruck
> numbness and background
fear as was elicited by the Kennedy assassination
> so
> long
ago.
>
> My deepest empathy to your nation
>
>
Darc
>
> Canada
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:39:53
-0600
From: "Floyd, Jim" <
Jim_Floyd@maxtor.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
Thank you.
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Darc [mailto:wce@telus.net]
Sent:
Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:27 AM
To: Team3S
Subject: Re: Team3S: OT:
Attack on World Trade Center
Obviously a group or country with the
resources to train adhock airline
pilots, rehearse co-ordinated airliner
hijackings, and fund this all, and
do it in secrecy, is at
the root of these horrific events. Assume plane
take overs were fast
and that flight crews were executed to prevent
interference. This has to be a
large group/cell, or a country. BTW Our air
traffic control boys (family
employees) are taxed to the limit taking your
diverted and now inbound
flights. Hopefully the RCMP will be screening
offloading, although likely all
designated hijacked/target planes and their
terrorists are history. This
plays out with the same feeling of dumbstruck
numbness and background fear as
was elicited by the Kennedy assassination so
long ago.
My deepest
empathy to your nation
Darc
Canada
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:57:37
+0200
From: Roger Gerl <
roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
Our Swiss board (7 people,
we do not have a president) just had a press
conference and they were
shocked like the whole little country is. We felt
and still feel very, very
bad when we heard and saw what is going on. When
the second tower collapsed
some of us had tears in their eyes... how can
this ever happen ?? We have
informed all flights to the US to turn back and
the first ones just arrived
a few minutes ago. Maybe some of you know that
Zürich,Switzerland is a jump
over airport for jewish people flying from Tel
Aviv to New York. This is why
the security is very high on Swissair planes
and we are very anxious that
something like that may happen in any place on
the world !
Please
apologize my bad English as I'm not prepared to write down our
feelings in
this moment. God save you all
!
Roger
Switzerland
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 12:19:00
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
Roger,
Thanks for
your good wishes and good luck to y'all, too!
Over here we have been
pampered by our geographical isolation from the rest
of the world. Our
complacency led to the suspension of universal military
service and an
extremely open society that is highly critical of any
infringement of civil
liberty. How many of us have griped about the
"heightened security"
measures at our airports when we're trying to check in
for a flight?
Things are likely to be very different around here for some
time to come
...
Chuck
Texas
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: Roger Gerl [SMTP:roger.gerl@bluewin.ch]
> Sent: Tuesday, September
11, 2001 11:58 AM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: Re: Team3S: OT: Attack on
World Trade Center
>
> Our Swiss board (7 people, we do not have a
president) just had a press
> conference and they were shocked like the
whole little country is. We felt
>
> and still feel very, very bad
when we heard and saw what is going on. When
>
> the second tower
collapsed some of us had tears in their eyes... how can
> this ever
happen ?? We have informed all flights to the US to turn back
> and
> the first ones just arrived a few minutes ago. Maybe some of you know
that
>
> Zürich,Switzerland is a jump over airport for jewish
people flying from
> Tel
> Aviv to New York. This is why the
security is very high on Swissair planes
>
> and we are very
anxious that something like that may happen in any place
> on
> the
world !
>
> Please apologize my bad English as I'm not prepared to
write down our
> feelings in this moment. God save you all !
>
> Roger
>
> Switzerland
>
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 10:14:23
-0700
From: Robert Koch <
rakoch.bmd@primusint.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
I heard on the news....now
this is about as reliable as a rubber crutch in
hospital as all news reports
are and I am about as far as you could be from
this crisis, We are being
told that perhaps thousands made it out right
after the first plane. 18
minutes later the second hit maybe enough time to
get some out. "they" say
from the 110 floors in each building if you were
on 60 and up you had no
chance. 20k per building at 10 am EDT. Those things
were full.
So
you figure 45-50% of the 40k total....yeah an exaggeration but not by
much.........probably in the 20k mark by day 7 of this tragedy. I can't
stand not being able to do anything at this moment. I will most certainly
donate profits from my cover plates to the cause of relief with the
victims. I will consider giving blood to our local bank in hopes that
anything will help, I encourage others to do so as well. ( I have never
donated blood before, today is a good day to do so).
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E.
[SMTP:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001
10:05 AM
To: 'Robert Koch'
Subject: RE: Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade
Center
You are damned right about retribution that needs to be swift and
surgical.
It's hard to worry about collateral damage to a culture that
deifies
cowardly behavior against unarmed civilians. But let's not
exaggerate - we
lost about 60,000 people in Vietnam - there are a lot of
names on the wall,
about the number we were losing each year in traffic
fatalities in the US
at
that time. There are obviously thousands of
casualties here, but doesn't
look close on the slaughter scale.
Your
turn: cut their nuts off!
Chuck Willis
NDSM X2
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Koch
[SMTP:rakoch.bmd@primusint.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 11:48
AM
> To: 'Willis, Charles E.'
> Subject: RE: Team3S: OT: Attack on
World Trade Center
>
> Godspeed....to those victims in both the
airliners as well as those on
the
>
> ground and in the
buildings. I am completely speechless. After viewing
the
>
>
news in the Palestinian countries and watching them parade as we do only
>
after a Super bowl or World Series, I find myself trying very hard not to
> hate those by race or creed. This will be a very trying time for our
homes
>
> and families. In one swoop we may have lost more
Americans then we did in
> Vietnam. I am deeply saddened with
this.
>
> This must be delt with in a swift manner, Those
responsible must be
> eliminated with extreme prejudice.
>
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Willis, Charles E.
[SMTP:cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11,
2001 9:15 AM
> To: Team3S
> Subject: RE: Team3S: OT: Attack on World
Trade Center
>
> In the recent past, the US has not been averse to
dropping a Cruise
> missile
> or two on problem areas. I am
afraid we can expect two changes - less
> aversion to direct action by the
US, more like the Brits, and sacrifice
of
> personal freedoms and
civil liberties that we have become accustomed to
so
> that agencies
responsible for enforcement can protect us more
effectively.
>
>
Chuck Willis
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
Andrew D. Woll [SMTP:awoll1@pacbell.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September
11, 2001 10:22 AM
> > To: Willis, Charles E.; Team3S
> >
Subject: Re: Team3S: OT: Attack on World Trade Center
> >
> >
It seems to me that we have watchdog agencies such as the CIA that have
>
> lists of terrorist. Within these lists, it seems to make sense that
we
> > probably have a select few that are known terrorist with
information
> > rising
> > to the 95th percentile. It is too
bad we also have federal laws
> > prohibiting
> > our country
from hunting these people down and just shooting them.
Maybe
> >
it
> > is time to change the law.
> >
> >
Andy
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