Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Wednesday, September 19 2001 Volume 01 :
Number
617
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Wed, 19 Sep 2001 09:14:28 -0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Brembo 3S Specific brake upgrade
My son Mike has the Brembo
F40 calipers through Stillen. We had some
initial problems with the
installation that were fixed by Stillen. Since
then, the brakes perform
very well.
Challenges we have encountered:
1) slight rotor
warpage (like 0.002") using the supplied PAGID pads that
generated noticeable
squeaking on the street. This doesn't happen with the
Hawk HP+ (I
think) pads, but these have noticebly worse performance on the
track.
Next pads we try will be Carbotech Panther Plus.
2) problems
replacing the rotors - from Stillen they are very expensive.
Porterfield will
custom make them, but we haven't tried this yet. This is
probably the
route we we take.
Chuck Willis
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Jeff VanOrsdal [SMTP:jeffv@1nce.com]
> Sent:
Wednesday, September 19, 2001 8:57 AM
> To: Team3s Tech List
>
Subject: Team3S: Brembo 3S Specific brake upgrade
>
> I was looking
around Brembo's website today and noticed they have listings
> for the
Stealth and 3000GT on their brake upgrade page. Apparently it's
>
under development because the part number is only listed as "TBA"
I'm
> left
> wondering how this will compare to the various adapted
Porsche upgrades
> that
> guys like Brad and KVR have built.
Does anyone have more information on
> this setup?
>
> The
parts page is at the following link:
>
http://www.brembo.com/prod_highperform.html>
> Jeff VanOrsdal
> 1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
>
jeffv@1nce.com*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 09:17:44
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Turbo magazine back issue request (RWD VR4 info)
... whereas
now us fat, middle aged owners are more worried about how to get
the car to
slow down faster!
Chuck Willis
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Wayne [SMTP:whietala@prodigy.net]
> Sent:
Wednesday, September 19, 2001 8:58 AM
> To: Team3s Tech List
>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Turbo magazine back issue request (RWD VR4 info)
>
> The reason this guy disabled the AWD was not because he was more
> comfortable with RWD, or did not know how to drive an AWD. He did it to
> eliminate the weakest link in our drivetrain.....the tranny/transfer.
Keep
>
> in mind that he was building a 575+hp/550 ft-lb engine
back in 93, when
> most TT owners were middle aged business men who's
last thought was making
>
> the car faster.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 11:29:22
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Gauge displays
Are the tach and center gauge displays simple
pieces of paper or are they
actual gauge? s? Is it possible to rotate them
(such as putting redline at
the 12 o'clock position or oil and water temps at
the 12 o'clock position)?
Obviously, any aftermarket gauge pod can be rotated
to any direction but how
about the tach?
- --Flash!
1995
VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 17:34:52
+0200
From: "Mikael Kenson" <
vr4@bahnhof.se>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Brembo 3S Specific brake upgrade
What size are the rotors on you sons
"F40" setup?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Willis, Charles
E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
>
My son Mike has the Brembo F40 calipers through Stillen.
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 11:37:59
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Turbo magazine back issue request (RWD VR4 info)
But we all know
that the weakest links are brakes or for the go-fast people
it is the
understeering. How much to convert to a RWD? $5,000? What
can
you get for $5,000? One heck of a nice setup on suspension,
brakes,
anti-sway and strut tower bars. It would out-corner most road
cars (I've
seen proof of this).
Whatever. Most of us know the
real beauty to these cars but there are some
bold people (Jeff V I think?)
who are doing some fantastically wonderful
things like putting a VR-4 engine
in a Stealth base or something like that.
Garsh this list is fun
sometimes.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
- -----Original
Message-----
From: Wayne
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 9:58
AM
The reason this guy disabled the AWD was not because he was
more
comfortable with RWD, or did not know how to drive an AWD. He did it
to
eliminate the weakest link in our drivetrain.....the tranny/transfer.
Keep
in mind that he was building a 575+hp/550 ft-lb engine back in 93,
when
most TT owners were middle aged business men who's last thought was
making
the car faster.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 08:37:04
-0700
From: "Darc" <
wce@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Poor
Gas mileage and getting worse
Correct, correct (hide my head)
;-)) One on each bank is all you have.
Best
Darc
- -----
Original Message -----
From: "Oskar" <
osk@mediaone.net>
To: <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Cc:
<
greggonzo1@hotmail.com>
Sent:
Tuesday, September 18, 2001 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: Team3S: Poor Gas mileage and
getting worse
> Correction - on a '92 TT there are two O2
sensors. One for each cylinder
> bank.
>
>
Oskar
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darc" <
wce@telus.net>
> To: "Greg Gonzales"
<
greggonzo1@hotmail.com>;
"Stealth Net"
> <
stealth@stls.verio.net>; <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
>
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 9:11 PM
> Subject: Re: Team3S: Poor Gas
mileage and getting worse
>
>
> > Black soot is normal.
Mine has been that way from day 1. They burn rich
> and
> > even
moreso with a test pipe. 1 O2 sensor is all you have. Try another
>
PCV,
> > and insure your air cleaner doesn't have too much oil spray
limiting
> intake.
> > The only other thing I can think of
is switching to another fuel. Try
> > Chevron, or if using that, try
another.
> >
> > Best
> >
> >
Darc
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 11:44:50
-0400
From: "Jeff VanOrsdal" <
jeffv@1nce.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S:
Gauge displays
The canter cluster is one large molded plastic
assembly. It would be very
difficult to rotate the gauges due to the
plastic light baffles and various
other things in the pod. You would be
looking at a totally custom solution
after it's all said and done. I think
Jeff Lucius has some pictures of the
removed cluster on his site.
Jeff
VanOrsdal
1991 Stealth ESX Twin Turbo
jeffv@1nce.com- -----Original
Message-----
From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Darren Schilberg
Sent:
Wednesday, September 19, 2001 11:29 AM
To: Team3S
Subject: Team3S: Gauge
displays
Are the tach and center gauge displays simple pieces of paper or
are they
actual gauge? s? Is it possible to rotate them (such as putting
redline at
the 12 o'clock position or oil and water temps at the 12 o'clock
position)?
Obviously, any aftermarket gauge pod can be rotated to any
direction but how
about the tach?
- --Flash!
1995
VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 11:43:29
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Brembo 3S Specific brake upgrade
Those rotors are shown as 355 mm
x 28 mm. I think the Big Red rotors are
stock VR-4 rotors which are 335
(or 325). Are we sure that this size fits
under a 17" wheel? I
seem to recall that this is either real close or won't
fit under anything but
18" wheels unless some big spacers or hub mods are
put in.
Looks good
though since some of us Big Red people are looking for more
stopping
power.
Chuck, aren't Mike's rotors the ones that you have to line up and
pound on
with a hammer or was that a one-time occurrence?
-
--Flash!
1995 VR-4 with Big Reds and stock Porterfield rotors
-
-----Original Message-----
From: Willis, Charles E.
Sent: Wednesday,
September 19, 2001 10:14 AM
My son Mike has the Brembo F40 calipers
through Stillen. We had some
initial problems with the installation
that were fixed by Stillen. Since
then, the brakes perform very
well.
Challenges we have encountered:
1) slight rotor warpage
(like 0.002") using the supplied PAGID pads that
generated noticeable
squeaking on the street. This doesn't happen with the
Hawk HP+ (I
think) pads, but these have noticebly worse performance on the
track.
Next pads we try will be Carbotech Panther Plus.
2) problems
replacing the rotors - from Stillen they are very expensive.
Porterfield will
custom make them, but we haven't tried this yet. This is
probably the
route we we take.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 09:04:05
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Brembo 3S Specific brake upgrade
> 2) problems
replacing the rotors - from Stillen they are very expensive.
> Porterfield
will custom make them, but we haven't tried this yet. This is
>
probably the route we we take.
Chamfer the edges of the pad, sometimes
that helps a lot.
* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just ask!
*
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:51
+0100
From:
jd@edge-software.comSubject: Re: RE:
Team3S: Turbo magazine back issue request (RWD VR4 info)
In response to
the original request for info...
Todd S. has some picks from that article
on his site:
http://www.qsl.net/n5mya/stealth1.htmlGoto
the "Other Owner's cars" link... Perez
-JD
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 08:53:38
-0700
From: bob <
rakoch.bmd@primusint.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Gauge displays
With the talk of guages........how hard is it
to convert to the indigo guages on ebay?
could it be done in say a
saturday?
bobK.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Darren
Schilberg [SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001
8:29 AM
To: Team3S
Subject: Team3S: Gauge displays
Are the tach and
center gauge displays simple pieces of paper or are they
actual gauge? s? Is
it possible to rotate them (such as putting redline at
the 12 o'clock
position or oil and water temps at the 12 o'clock position)?
Obviously, any
aftermarket gauge pod can be rotated to any direction but how
about the
tach?
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 11:14:06
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Brembo 3S Specific brake upgrade
Those were the rotors with
hat's Mike's uncle painted apparently with a huge
overbuild. One time
occurance.
I'm digging through email to find the diameter of Mike's
rotors.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren Schilberg
[SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 10:43
AM
> To: Team3s Tech List
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Brembo 3S Specific
brake upgrade
>
> Those rotors are shown as 355 mm x 28 mm. I
think the Big Red rotors are
> stock VR-4 rotors which are 335 (or
325). Are we sure that this size fits
> under a 17" wheel? I
seem to recall that this is either real close or
> won't
> fit under
anything but 18" wheels unless some big spacers or hub mods are
> put
in.
>
> Looks good though since some of us Big Red people are
looking for more
> stopping power.
>
> Chuck, aren't Mike's
rotors the ones that you have to line up and pound on
> with a hammer or
was that a one-time occurrence?
>
> --Flash!
> 1995 VR-4 with
Big Reds and stock Porterfield rotors
>
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Willis, Charles E.
> Sent: Wednesday, September
19, 2001 10:14 AM
>
> My son Mike has the Brembo F40 calipers
through Stillen. We had some
> initial problems with the
installation that were fixed by Stillen. Since
> then, the brakes
perform very well.
>
> Challenges we have encountered:
>
> 1) slight rotor warpage (like 0.002") using the supplied PAGID pads
that
> generated noticeable squeaking on the street. This doesn't
happen with
> the
> Hawk HP+ (I think) pads, but these have
noticebly worse performance on the
> track. Next pads we try will be
Carbotech Panther Plus.
>
> 2) problems replacing the rotors
- from Stillen they are very expensive.
> Porterfield will custom make
them, but we haven't tried this yet. This is
> probably the route we
we take.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 09:03:18
-0700
From: "Watkins, Jim" <
jim.watkins@terayon.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Fuel Guage
My fuel guage has failed recently. It indicates
empty now when I know there
is over 1/2 tank. I haven't checked the
CAPS program yet to see whether the
fuel pump and guage sending unit are
separate part numbers. Does anybody
know? The yellow light is not
part of the same electronics, right? Any
possibility that this would be
an electrical problem and not the fault of
the sending unit?
Jim
95
3000GT VR4 Spyder
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 12:02:27
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
RE: Team3S: Turbo magazine back issue request (RWD VR4 info)
On the Max
Cottrell pic isn't that custom? It looks like a power sunroof on
a
Stealth.
- -----Original Message-----
From:
jd@edge-software.comSent: Wednesday,
September 19, 2001 5:51 AM
In response to the original request for
info...
Todd S. has some picks from that article on his site:
http://www.qsl.net/n5mya/stealth1.htmlGoto
the "Other Owner's cars" link... Perez
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 12:07:58
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Brembo 3S Specific brake upgrade
Here is the truth about VR4
rotor diameters, except I didn't find my numbers
for the 1st gen rotors., but
I'll get them tonight at home.
Stock 2nd Gen rotor diameter = 310 mm or 12
1/4"
Stillen Brembo upgrade rotor = 318 mm or 12 1/2"
Jim's Brad Bedelll
custom two piece rotor = 324 mm or 12 3/4" custom made by
Porterfield for
Brad for Jim
These are real diameters, not "effective diameters" that you see
in the
Service manual.
Chuck Willis
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Darren Schilberg [SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 10:43 AM
> To: Team3s Tech
List
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Brembo 3S Specific brake upgrade
>
> Those rotors are shown as 355 mm x 28 mm. I think the Big Red
rotors are
> stock VR-4 rotors which are 335 (or 325). Are we sure
that this size fits
> under a 17" wheel? I seem to recall that this
is either real close or
> won't
> fit under anything but 18" wheels
unless some big spacers or hub mods are
> put in.
>
> Looks
good though since some of us Big Red people are looking for more
>
stopping power.
>
> Chuck, aren't Mike's rotors the ones that you
have to line up and pound on
> with a hammer or was that a one-time
occurrence?
>
> --Flash!
> 1995 VR-4 with Big Reds and stock
Porterfield rotors
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Willis, Charles E.
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 10:14 AM
>
> My son Mike has the Brembo F40 calipers through Stillen. We had
some
> initial problems with the installation that were fixed by
Stillen. Since
> then, the brakes perform very well.
>
> Challenges we have encountered:
>
> 1) slight rotor
warpage (like 0.002") using the supplied PAGID pads that
> generated
noticeable squeaking on the street. This doesn't happen with
>
the
> Hawk HP+ (I think) pads, but these have noticebly worse performance
on the
> track. Next pads we try will be Carbotech Panther
Plus.
>
> 2) problems replacing the rotors - from Stillen
they are very expensive.
> Porterfield will custom make them, but we
haven't tried this yet. This is
> probably the route we we
take.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:14:37
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Brembo 3S Specific brake upgrade
Charles: Im ready to start
having those rotors build for the BRs if I can
get someone to measure the
width of the rotor face on the BACK of the
rotor.
On Wed, 19 Sep 2001,
Willis, Charles E. wrote:
> Here is the truth about VR4 rotor
diameters, except I didn't find my numbers
> for the 1st gen rotors., but
I'll get them tonight at home.
> Stock 2nd Gen rotor diameter = 310 mm or
12 1/4"
> Stillen Brembo upgrade rotor = 318 mm or 12 1/2"
> Jim's
Brad Bedelll custom two piece rotor = 324 mm or 12 3/4" custom made by
>
Porterfield for Brad for Jim
> These are real diameters, not "effective
diameters" that you see in the
> Service manual.
>
> Chuck
Willis
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
Darren Schilberg [SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday,
September 19, 2001 10:43 AM
> > To: Team3s Tech List
> >
Subject: RE: Team3S: Brembo 3S Specific brake upgrade
> >
> >
Those rotors are shown as 355 mm x 28 mm. I think the Big Red rotors
are
> > stock VR-4 rotors which are 335 (or 325). Are we sure
that this size fits
> > under a 17" wheel? I seem to recall that
this is either real close or
> > won't
> > fit under anything
but 18" wheels unless some big spacers or hub mods are
> > put
in.
> >
> > Looks good though since some of us Big Red people
are looking for more
> > stopping power.
> >
> >
Chuck, aren't Mike's rotors the ones that you have to line up and pound
on
> > with a hammer or was that a one-time occurrence?
> >
> > --Flash!
> > 1995 VR-4 with Big Reds and stock
Porterfield rotors
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Willis, Charles E.
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001
10:14 AM
> >
> > My son Mike has the Brembo F40 calipers
through Stillen. We had some
> > initial problems with the
installation that were fixed by Stillen. Since
> > then, the
brakes perform very well.
> >
> > Challenges we have
encountered:
> >
> > 1) slight rotor warpage (like 0.002")
using the supplied PAGID pads that
> > generated noticeable squeaking
on the street. This doesn't happen with
> > the
> > Hawk
HP+ (I think) pads, but these have noticebly worse performance on the
>
> track. Next pads we try will be Carbotech Panther Plus.
> >
> > 2) problems replacing the rotors - from Stillen they are
very expensive.
> > Porterfield will custom make them, but we haven't
tried this yet. This is
> > probably the route we we
take.
* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just ask! *
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:18:07
-0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Lucius <
stealthman92@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Fuel Guage
The fuel gauge and low warning sensor are both
integral with and sold
with the fuel pump assembly (with pump) as one part
for a list price
of $465.87 - MB698858 for turbo and MB698857 for the other
models. If
it is the sending unit, then I bet it can be repaired. It looks to
me
(from tearing these apart) that the float runs a "needle" across
a
wound coil of wire - a "variable resistor" I think its called
or
something like that. It is also possible that a wire is partly
shorted
or grounded somewhere. Not sure how you would check the
gauge, but you can
check the sender with a volt-ohm-meter. Start at
the sender and work
forward.
For pics of the assemblies:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius8/j8-2-fuelpumps.htmFor
pump removal:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/jlucius/2-fuelpump.htmFor
part numbers, prices, diagrams:
http://www.geocities.com/lutransys/blucius/b-2-mitchell.htmJeff
Lucius,
www.stealth316.com-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Watkins, Jim" <
jim.watkins@terayon.com>
To:
"Team3S (E-mail)" <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, September 19, 2001 10:03 AM
Subject: Team3S: Fuel Guage
My
fuel guage has failed recently. It indicates empty now when I
know
there is over 1/2 tank. I haven't checked the CAPS program yet
to see
whether the fuel pump and guage sending unit are separate part
numbers.
Does anybody know? The yellow light is not part of the
same
electronics, right? Any possibility that this would be an
electrical
problem and not the fault of the sending unit?
Jim
95 3000GT VR4
Spyder
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 11:23:35
-0700
From: "Darc" <
wce@telus.net>
Subject: Team3S:
Brakes
If I upgrade to 2nd gen rotors and second gen calipers (front) ,
is there
any clearance problem with 1st gen rims on a 92 TT? I suspect
not, but need
feedback from those who have the setup as described and
not with aftermarket
wheels.
Darc
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 11:42:36
-0700
From: Wayne <
whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Turbo magazine back issue request (RWD VR4 info)
The weakest link
is the brakes???? I've never heard of anybody stranded on
the side of the
road because they're brakes failed. Mitsu stopped rallying
these cars
because they kept blowing up transmissions/transfers, not
because they were
flying off mountains due to faulty brakes. Don't get me
wrong, i am a large
fan of AWD, and would NEVER convert to RWD or FWD. Back
in 93 when this
conversion took place, 3 out of 5 VR-4's were returning to
the dealer to get
the faulty trans/x-fer replaced. And this was with a
stock car pushing
300hp. This was obviously the weakest link for a person
modifying to 550hp
to consider. I personally feel that these brakes are far
superior to any
other car in it's near price range.
Whoever it was that initiated this
post......if you want a copy of the
article i have, just send me your
address, and i'll mail it to you.
Wayne
At 08:37 AM 9/19/01 ,
Darren Schilberg wrote:
>But we all know that the weakest links are brakes
or for the go-fast people
>it is the understeering. How much to
convert to a RWD? $5,000? What can
>you get for $5,000?
One heck of a nice setup on suspension, brakes,
>anti-sway and strut tower
bars. It would out-corner most road cars (I've
>seen proof of
this).
>
>--Flash!
>1995 VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 11:45:37
-0700
From: Wayne <
whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Brakes
We should have a website called
"
www.firstgenwheelswillnotfitsecondgenbrakes.com"
LOL
It seems like this topic is covered on a bi-monthly
basis.
W
At 11:23 AM 9/19/01 , Darc wrote:
>If I upgrade to
2nd gen rotors and second gen calipers (front) , is there
>any clearance
problem with 1st gen rims on a 92 TT? I suspect not, but
need
>feedback from those who have the setup as described and not with
aftermarket
>wheels.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 14:04:10
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Brembo 3S Specific brake upgrade
I believe I have these
measurmenets for the Stillen upgrade rotors at home,
else my son can measure
his spare set ...
For the Big Red's they are just made to work with the
stock front rotors -I
have these measurmeents at home for sure.
by
width of the rotor face on the back of the rotor, do you mean
the
annulus?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler
[SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001
12:15 PM
> To: Willis, Charles E.
> Cc: Team3s Tech List
>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Brembo 3S Specific brake upgrade
>
> Charles:
Im ready to start having those rotors build for the BRs if I can
> get
someone to measure the width of the rotor face on the BACK of the
>
rotor.
>
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2001, Willis, Charles E. wrote:
>
> > Here is the truth about VR4 rotor diameters, except I didn't find
my
> numbers
> > for the 1st gen rotors., but I'll get them
tonight at home.
> > Stock 2nd Gen rotor diameter = 310 mm or 12
1/4"
> > Stillen Brembo upgrade rotor = 318 mm or 12 1/2"
> >
Jim's Brad Bedelll custom two piece rotor = 324 mm or 12 3/4" custom
>
made by
> > Porterfield for Brad for Jim
> > These are real
diameters, not "effective diameters" that you see in the
> > Service
manual.
> >
> > Chuck Willis
> >
> > >
-----Original Message-----
> > > From: Darren Schilberg
[SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 19,
2001 10:43 AM
> > > To: Team3s Tech List
> > > Subject:
RE: Team3S: Brembo 3S Specific brake upgrade
> > >
> >
> Those rotors are shown as 355 mm x 28 mm. I think the Big Red
rotors
> are
> > > stock VR-4 rotors which are 335 (or
325). Are we sure that this size
> fits
> > > under a
17" wheel? I seem to recall that this is either real close or
> >
> won't
> > > fit under anything but 18" wheels unless some big
spacers or hub mods
> are
> > > put in.
> > >
> > > Looks good though since some of us Big Red people are looking
for more
> > > stopping power.
> > >
> > >
Chuck, aren't Mike's rotors the ones that you have to line up and
> pound
on
> > > with a hammer or was that a one-time occurrence?
>
> >
> > > --Flash!
> > > 1995 VR-4 with Big Reds
and stock Porterfield rotors
> > >
> > > -----Original
Message-----
> > > From: Willis, Charles E.
> > > Sent:
Wednesday, September 19, 2001 10:14 AM
> > >
> > > My
son Mike has the Brembo F40 calipers through Stillen. We had some
>
> > initial problems with the installation that were fixed by
Stillen.
> Since
> > > then, the brakes perform very
well.
> > >
> > > Challenges we have
encountered:
> > >
> > > 1) slight rotor warpage (like
0.002") using the supplied PAGID pads
> that
> > > generated
noticeable squeaking on the street. This doesn't happen
>
with
> > > the
> > > Hawk HP+ (I think) pads, but these
have noticebly worse performance on
> the
> > > track.
Next pads we try will be Carbotech Panther Plus.
> > >
> >
> 2) problems replacing the rotors - from Stillen they are very
>
expensive.
> > > Porterfield will custom make them, but we haven't
tried this yet.
> This is
> > > probably the route we we
take.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 14:08:57
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Brakes
there is barely enough clearance (as in not really
enough) for 1st gen 17"
VR4 wheels to get past 2nd gen calipers. You
would need 2nd gen 17" wheels
or 18" wheels.
Dont' know about Stealth
wheels.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darc
[SMTP:wce@telus.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 1:24 PM
>
To: Team3S
> Subject: Team3S: Brakes
>
> If I upgrade to 2nd
gen rotors and second gen calipers (front) , is there
> any clearance
problem with 1st gen rims on a 92 TT? I suspect not, but
>
need
> feedback from those who have the setup as described and not
with
> aftermarket
> wheels.
>
> Darc
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 12:32:59
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Brembo 3S Specific brake upgrade
Well, I was just wondering
if you have the #s for the 2pc rotor Brad had
made, thats the measurement I
need.
On Wed, 19 Sep 2001, Willis, Charles E. wrote:
> I
believe I have these measurmenets for the Stillen upgrade rotors at
home,
> else my son can measure his spare set ...
>
> For the
Big Red's they are just made to work with the stock front rotors -I
> have
these measurmeents at home for sure.
>
> by width of the rotor face
on the back of the rotor, do you mean the
> annulus?
> >
-----Original Message-----
> > From: Geoff Mohler
[SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 19,
2001 12:15 PM
> > To: Willis, Charles E.
> > Cc: Team3s Tech
List
> > Subject: RE: Team3S: Brembo 3S Specific brake upgrade
>
>
> > Charles: Im ready to start having those rotors build for the
BRs if I can
> > get someone to measure the width of the rotor face on
the BACK of the
> > rotor.
> >
> > On Wed, 19 Sep
2001, Willis, Charles E. wrote:
> >
> > > Here is the
truth about VR4 rotor diameters, except I didn't find my
> >
numbers
> > > for the 1st gen rotors., but I'll get them tonight at
home.
> > > Stock 2nd Gen rotor diameter = 310 mm or 12 1/4"
>
> > Stillen Brembo upgrade rotor = 318 mm or 12 1/2"
> > >
Jim's Brad Bedelll custom two piece rotor = 324 mm or 12 3/4" custom
>
> made by
> > > Porterfield for Brad for Jim
> > >
These are real diameters, not "effective diameters" that you see in the
>
> > Service manual.
> > >
> > > Chuck
Willis
> > >
> > > > -----Original
Message-----
> > > > From: Darren Schilberg
[SMTP:dschilberg@pobox.com]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September
19, 2001 10:43 AM
> > > > To: Team3s Tech List
> > >
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Brembo 3S Specific brake upgrade
> > >
>
> > > > Those rotors are shown as 355 mm x 28 mm. I
think the Big Red rotors
> > are
> > > > stock VR-4
rotors which are 335 (or 325). Are we sure that this size
> >
fits
> > > > under a 17" wheel? I seem to recall that this
is either real close or
> > > > won't
> > > > fit
under anything but 18" wheels unless some big spacers or hub mods
> >
are
> > > > put in.
> > > >
> > >
> Looks good though since some of us Big Red people are looking for
more
> > > > stopping power.
> > > >
> >
> > Chuck, aren't Mike's rotors the ones that you have to line up
and
> > pound on
> > > > with a hammer or was that a
one-time occurrence?
> > > >
> > > >
--Flash!
> > > > 1995 VR-4 with Big Reds and stock Porterfield
rotors
> > > >
> > > > -----Original
Message-----
> > > > From: Willis, Charles E.
> > >
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 10:14 AM
> > > >
> > > > My son Mike has the Brembo F40 calipers through
Stillen. We had some
> > > > initial problems with the
installation that were fixed by Stillen.
> > Since
> > >
> then, the brakes perform very well.
> > > >
> >
> > Challenges we have encountered:
> > > >
> >
> > 1) slight rotor warpage (like 0.002") using the supplied PAGID
pads
> > that
> > > > generated noticeable squeaking on
the street. This doesn't happen
> > with
> > > >
the
> > > > Hawk HP+ (I think) pads, but these have noticebly
worse performance on
> > the
> > > > track. Next
pads we try will be Carbotech Panther Plus.
> > > >
> >
> > 2) problems replacing the rotors - from Stillen they are
very
> > expensive.
> > > > Porterfield will custom make
them, but we haven't tried this yet.
> > This is
> > > >
probably the route we we take.
* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just ask! *
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 13:25:08
-0600
From: Dave Monarchi <
monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Brakes
RE: 'there is barely enough clearance (as in not
really enough) for 1st
gen 17" VR4 wheels to get past 2nd gen
calipers.'
Nope. not true. not at all. been
there. tried that. wrote the
128 emails describing the reasons
why. check the archives. you can
physically force the wheel on by
cranking the bolts down, but the
wheel will have a small friction
problem. As in it won't turn.
http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~monarchd/3000gt/wheels.htmlI
only make a point of this because I heard similar statements which
caused me
to waste a whole lot of time trying this.
2nd gen 17" wheels apparently
do work, but I haven't seen it
first
hand.
Dave
=======================
= 95 Black 3000GT VR4
=
= 87 Mica Red GTI G60 =
http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~monarchd/cars.html
= There is no spoon.. =
=======================
+> there is
barely enough clearance (as in not really enough) for 1st gen 17"
+> VR4
wheels to get past 2nd gen calipers. You would need 2nd gen 17"
wheels
+> or 18" wheels.
+> Dont' know about Stealth
wheels.
+>
+> > -----Original Message-----
+> > From:
Darc [SMTP:wce@telus.net]
+> > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 1:24
PM
+> > To: Team3S
+> > Subject: Team3S: Brakes
+> >
+> > If I upgrade to 2nd gen rotors and second gen calipers (front) ,
is there
+> > any clearance problem with 1st gen rims on a 92 TT? I
suspect not, but
+> > need
+> > feedback from those who
have the setup as described and not with
+> > aftermarket
+> >
wheels.
+> >
+> > Darc
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 13:23:28
-0600
From: Desert Fox <
bigfoot@simmgene.com>
Subject:
Team3S: Oil levels
My dipstick measures even on both sides. Do I have a
defective car or
dipstick?
Flash: You shouldn't be hittin' the crack
pipe prior to checking your oil
level!;-)
I used to run with the oil
level at the full mark. However, after scouring
the web, it seems to me that
the over-full situation is potentially much
more detrimental than being a
quart low. I have read that oil circulation is
improved if the oil level is
in between the full and low marks. Also 1 quart
less weight for those
embarking on an automotive "diet".
Bueller? Bueller? Anybody care to
comment?
I run Amsoil Series 2000 0-30 full synthetic. I change the
FILTER every 3K
and top it off with fresh oil, to somewhere between the full
and low marks
(no crosshatching on mine either). I do a full drain oil change
every 6K or
so. Oil analysis has shown that I could even run longer between
changes but
old habits die hard especially when talking about one of our dear
3KGT's.
I've been milking my clutch now for over 6K. No slippage in 1st
or 2nd but
3rd through 5th require serious throttle control. I can however
speed uphill
at over 120mph in 6th on cruise without any slippage. Strange...
When I get
a new clutch, I'm sure it will be like riding a cruise
missile!
Paul/.
95 black 3000GT VR-4
98 VFR800F, TBR aluminum hi
exit
formerly reasonable and prudent
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 12:45:06
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Oil levels
> more detrimental than being a quart low. I
have read that oil circulation is
> improved if the oil level is in
between the full and low marks. Also 1 quart
> less weight for those
embarking on an automotive "diet".
- ---
its like this. It may cost
some HP ro ru "full" as opposed to a quart
low, that can be for a few
things:
1) Less oil = hotter oil. Oil is a huge heatsink for your
motor. Hotter
oil runs thinner, pumps easier, less drag in the bearings
= more Hp.
2) Less oil = less overhead for when you are stressing the overall
system.
Now, its possible that FULL oil may cause foaming or other
parasitic
issues with the crankshaft as it impacts oil in the pan..but thats
purely
hypotheitcal with 0 fact behind it (on our cars).
Since nobody
has any actual data on whether it is GOOD to run a quart low
constantly, Id
suggest not doing it at all.
> Bueller? Bueller? Anybody care to
comment?
>
> I run Amsoil Series 2000 0-30 full synthetic. I change
the FILTER every 3K
> and top it off with fresh oil, to somewhere between
the full and low marks
> (no crosshatching on mine either). I do a full
drain oil change every 6K or
> so. Oil analysis has shown that I could
even run longer between changes but
> old habits die hard especially when
talking about one of our dear 3KGT's.
>
> I've been milking my
clutch now for over 6K. No slippage in 1st or 2nd but
> 3rd through 5th
require serious throttle control. I can however speed uphill
> at over
120mph in 6th on cruise without any slippage. Strange... When I get
> a
new clutch, I'm sure it will be like riding a cruise missile!
>
>
> --
> Paul/.
> 95 black 3000GT VR-4
> 98 VFR800F, TBR
aluminum hi exit
> formerly reasonable and prudent
* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just ask! *
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 14:27:53
-0500
From: "Oskar" <
osk@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S:
Turbo magazine back issue request (RWD VR4 info)
I am looking forward to
seeing this project take shape.
The interesting thing here is that the
person who originally asked for the
article did not state what he was going
to use the car for after having
converted it to RWD. It is just the
assumption by someone that it is going
to be a road racer. Thus the
in-depth discussion about cornering abilities
and inadequate
brakes.
Hmm... wonder what type of cornering problems Bushur experienced
with his
RWD Talon drag car...
Oskar
- ----- Original Message
-----
From: "Wayne" <
whietala@prodigy.net>
To: <
Team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent:
Wednesday, September 19, 2001 1:42 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Turbo magazine
back issue request (RWD VR4 info)
> The weakest link is the brakes????
I've never heard of anybody stranded on
> the side of the road because
they're brakes failed. Mitsu stopped rallying
> these cars because they
kept blowing up transmissions/transfers, not
> because they were flying
off mountains due to faulty brakes. Don't get me
> wrong, i am a large fan
of AWD, and would NEVER convert to RWD or FWD.
Back
> in 93 when this
conversion took place, 3 out of 5 VR-4's were returning to
> the dealer to
get the faulty trans/x-fer replaced. And this was with a
> stock car
pushing 300hp. This was obviously the weakest link for a person
>
modifying to 550hp to consider. I personally feel that these brakes
are
far
> superior to any other car in it's near price
range.
>
> Whoever it was that initiated this post......if you want
a copy of the
> article i have, just send me your address, and i'll mail
it to you.
>
> Wayne
>
> At 08:37 AM 9/19/01 , Darren
Schilberg wrote:
> >But we all know that the weakest links are brakes
or for the go-fast
people
> >it is the understeering. How much
to convert to a RWD? $5,000? What
can
> >you get for
$5,000? One heck of a nice setup on suspension, brakes,
>
>anti-sway and strut tower bars. It would out-corner most road cars
(I've
> >seen proof of this).
> >
> >--Flash!
>
>1995 VR-4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 15:32:18
-0400
From: "
rjmsmail@swbell.net"
<
rjmsmail@swbell.net>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Shifter pops out of 4th gear: 1994 3000gt SL
Interesting, I
have always had the problem of it occasionally coming out of reverse when I
FINALLY get it into gear, it once came out with a very LOUD thud that made me
think the transmission had fallen out (dealer said they had no problems with it
when I was having them put in a new clutch about 20,000 miles ago). I was
on level ground at the time and it hasn't happened again, I will check all
of the transmission linkage bolts to see if anything is loose or
broken.
Bob
1994 Mitsubishi dark green 3000gt SL
1986 Regal black and
grey T-Type, WH1 Designer package
tribute to the victims and
America:
http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/IceWalker/ATributetotheVictimsandFamily.html*************************************************************************
>
is it probably just worn bearings (synchros?), something that I can't fix
by
> removing the shifter boot?
You might try
removing the shift boot and tightening the linkage. This has
helped many people fix their reverse gear. You'll understand which
linkage
when you take off the boot and move the stick around a
little. Good luck,
- -Paul - 3Si1127
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 14:44:21
-0700
From: "Darc" <
wce@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Oil
levels
I know that when I am a quart low on brain cells, it is not
a good
situation :-) I think the same holds true for the engine.
Keep it full but
never over full. The engineers who designed it have
figured the optimum
operating oil level when they placed the
marks they have given us on the
dipstick. It's likely a bit low, if you
get what I mean, when it says full.
It's not good to run a quart low, it
accelerates engine wear...and in the
case of brains, it's horrific (ie the
morning after
syndrome)
Best
Darc
snip>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>
1) Less oil = hotter oil. Oil is a huge heatsink for your motor.
Hotter
> oil runs thinner, pumps easier, less drag in the bearings = more
Hp.
> 2) Less oil = less overhead for when you are stressing the overall
system.
>
> Now, its possible that FULL oil may cause foaming or
other parasitic
> issues with the crankshaft as it impacts oil in the
pan..but thats purely
> hypotheitcal with 0 fact behind it (on our
cars).
>
> Since nobody has any actual data on whether it is GOOD to
run a quart low
> constantly, Id suggest not doing it at
all.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 18:31:46
-0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <
dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Turbo magazine back issue request (RWD VR4
info)
<grin> Thanks, Oskar. Bushur had no problems with
cornering since he did
not take any corners. And ask ANY road racer and
the weak link are brakes.
In one day (two sessions) you can burn through a
set of brakes. Nobody
breaks the tranny because you never use first
gear on a road course and
never get much into 5th or 6th except for long
courses like Road Atlanta and
Road America (6th is never touched on a road
course). But we have been able
to crack a brand new set of
cross-drilled rotors in three sessions or wear
down a set of race pads in
three sessions. Brakes are weak.
Suspension to a lesser point but I
have stock suspension, Big Red brakes,
Pagid Orange pads and still wear down
a set of pads in about three events.
Tranny is still going strong (yes it was
replaced but I bought the car after
someone else abused it for 40k so that
was none of my doing really).
Not to start a flame war. Brakes are
weak on the car (to a road racer). I
do not drag so I don't get into
those discussions. Also, the intercoolers
are weak when doing long WOT
runs (and to a lesser extent the drag racer).
Then there is the stock boost
level that is weak.
- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 daily driver and open track
car
- -----Original Message-----
From: Wayne
Sent: Wednesday,
September 19, 2001 2:43 PM
The weakest link is the brakes???? I've never
heard of anybody stranded on
the side of the road because they're brakes
failed. Mitsu stopped rallying
these cars because they kept blowing up
transmissions/transfers, not
because they were flying off mountains due to
faulty brakes. Don't get me
wrong, i am a large fan of AWD, and would NEVER
convert to RWD or FWD. Back
in 93 when this conversion took place, 3 out of 5
VR-4's were returning to
the dealer to get the faulty trans/x-fer replaced.
And this was with a
stock car pushing 300hp. This was obviously the weakest
link for a person
modifying to 550hp to consider. I personally feel that
these brakes are far
superior to any other car in it's near price
range.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 20:17:51
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Only drained 2 qts engine oil during change!
I commend G.M. on
their newer car designs. The dipstick has little holes in
it to catch
oil making it very easy to read. They def. do some
things
right!
Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jannusch,
Matt <
mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To:
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Monday, September 17, 2001 7:52 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Only drained 2 qts
engine oil during change!
>> We all have our own unique ways of
dealing with the car's
>> oddities. Mine was more of a suggestion
to get his results
>> (to get 5 quarts to come out you put 5 quarts in
not enough
>> to get it to full and then drain again since this will
ONLY
>> be the oil pan and not the oil cooler, oil lines,
etc.).
>
>There really shouldn't be any oddities with reading the
dipstick. Sure,
you
>might get a little oil on the edges of the
stick from the dipstick tube,
but
>the reading in the center of the
flat portion should be consistent every
>time. I suppose if you've
got way too much oil in there and the oil is
>climbing into the dipstick
tube it wouldn't be accurate anymore.
>
>I dunno, check your oil
level however you want I guess.
>
>Sometimes I wonder why I even
post here anymore. Nobody
listens.
>
>???
>
>-Matt
>'95 3000GT Spyder
VR4
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 20:22:56
-0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <
sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: O2 sensors and Stillen DP
The Stillen pipe I have has the bungs
pre-welded for you with plugs given in
case you have a 1st gen car. I
planned on using them for EGT measurements,
but was told its too far to be of
any use.
Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
To:
Morice, Francis <
francis.morice@retek.com>
Cc:
Team3S (E-mail) <
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date:
Tuesday, September 18, 2001 2:25 AM
Subject: Re: Team3S: O2 sensors and
Stillen DP
>Yes, you will have to weld in bungs for everything to
remain happy. Make
>sure you place them the same distance from the
turbos as before, as how
>much heat they see, directly affects how well
they perform..and how well
>your motor performs as well.
>
>On
Mon, 17 Sep 2001, Morice, Francis wrote:
>
>> I just ordered a
Borla catback and a Stillen DP and I was wondering what
I
>> have to
do with the 2 O2 sensors that are on the stock DP. Do I need
to
weld
>> bungs on the Stillen DP and the test pipe, or can I just
not use them ? I
>> hope to be installing it this weekend, so any help
would be greatly
>> appreciated.
>>
>>
Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Francis
>> '96 RT/TT (with
OBII and too many O2 sensors)
>> - Test pipe, gutted precats, AVC-R,
RPS TCC, Supra Fuel Pump, Goodridge
>> Steel Braided Lines, Porterfield
Cryo/Crossdrilled Rotors, R4S pads,
>> Autometer Boost Gauge, GC
Springs(500/ 300 f/r), HKS Megaflow filter, 1G
DSM
>> BOV, Spearco
WI
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#617
***************************************