Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth Tuesday, September 25 2001
Volume 01 : Number
626
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:46:41 -0400
From: Ken Stanton <
tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
Where? How? I'm
interested..
Ken
Geoff Mohler wrote:
> $185 shipped for
a brand new full set. $175 was the GP deal about 2
> months
ago.
>
> On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Ken Stanton wrote:
>
>
> Doh!
> > I'm looking for the whole kit for my car, asap.
>
> Any suggestions?
> >
> > Ken Stanton
> > '91
Pearl White R/T TT
> > Organizer - 3SI Rochester (NY)
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:47:41
-0400
From: Ken Stanton <
tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
Ohhhhhhhhhh!!!!
Duh!
Ok, so
what do I need to purchase, and what tools do I need?
Is there a writeup on
this somewhere?
THANKS!
Ken
"Willis, Charles E."
wrote:
> I mean ... you remove the dust boots and retaining rings from
the pistons,
> you use compressed air to pop the pistons out of the
caliper with a piece of
> wood between them and a c-clamp to hold each one
in place after it pops out
> until all four are loose, and you remove the
seal from each piston and you
> clean it out and clean each piston with a
scotch brite pad and you but new
> seals on the pistons and attach new
dust boots and put the pistons back in
> the caliper body and then attach
the new retaining rings.
>
> You know?
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:01:31
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
Some really good ideas
Andie..thanks!
The Portefield lines are about 1/4" longer to help make up
for any
suspension travel issues, plus they are all made to also match the
new
length of lines in the volountary recall..where the OEM lines are
also
longer.
On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Andie W. Lin wrote:
> I'm
going to side in part with Geoff here. I've seen a few failiures (I
can
> count them on one hand...so not a TON, by any means.), but all it
takes is
> one failure to send you off the road or into a wall at
120mph.
>
> I have personally had two failures...a lot depends on
the car. If the
> suspension travels in such a way that it puts a
lot of stress on the hoses,
> then you will be more prone to
failure.
>
> I do NOT have personal hands-on experience with the
3000GT when it comes to
> brake lines, so I'll defer to Geoff and other
members of the list (who
> actually own the car) on this one, when it
comes to specifics.
>
> To protect my SS hoses, I have them shrink
wrap some tubing around the SS
> braiding to keep out dust and debris, and
then also, I split a thick
> silicone tube and put it over the hoses with
zip ties in order to provide a
> buffer against high-speed road
debris. This has worked very well for me,
> and helps to prolong the
life of the SS braided hoses.
>
> andie w lin
> vp marketing
and product r&d
> carbotech engineering
>
http://www.carbotecheng.com> tel:
877.899.5024 | fax: 954.493.9669
>
> ::-----Original
Message-----
> ::From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> ::Of Geoff Mohler
>
::Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 1:52 PM
> ::To: Ken Stanton
>
::Cc:
team3s@team3s.com>
::Subject: Re: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
> ::
> ::
>
::$185 shipped for a brand new full set. $175 was the GP deal about
2
> ::months ago.
* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just ask! *
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:49:00
-0400
From: "Andie W. Lin" <
andiewlin@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
I was asking him for HIS reasons.
:-)
Some people want it for aesthetics, which on a show-car...fine...but
if he
told me he wanted it just for looks...I'd advise against it, because
he
apparently wouldn't be inspecting them for signs of wear.
The
reasons YOU listed are the correct reasons to get them, but as with
anything,
it is not always ALL positives...there are drawbacks to
everything. For
example, with Motul 600...it is an excellent high-temp
brake fluid...we sell
it as well. However, it is important to point out
that it is also VERY
hydroscopic, and that it will absorb moisture much more
readily than other
brake fluids. This means that they need to bleed their
brake fluid
often to keep the operating boiling temperature from sagging and
going down
to the wet boiling point.
I just like to cover the bases and make people
aware of everything...even if
it results in a lost sale.
andie w
lin
vp marketing and product r&d
carbotech engineering
http://www.carbotecheng.comtel:
877.899.5024 | fax: 954.493.9669
::-----Original Message-----
::From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
::Of Geoff Mohler
::Sent:
Tuesday, September 25, 2001 1:55 PM
::To: Andie W. Lin
::Cc: Ken Stanton;
team3s@team3s.com::Subject: RE:
Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
::
::Reduced sagging of brake pedal, a
more positive feeling of braking, more
::braking feedback to name a
few.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:47:47
-0600
From: Dave Monarchi <
monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
ok. I'll bite.
Subject: Porsche brakes
why are "Big Reds" uh, well, RED?
Are they _so_ much better they don't
have to be concerned about insulation?
Dave
=======================
= 95 Black 3000GT VR4 =
= 87 Mica
Red GTI G60 =
http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~monarchd/cars.html
= There is no spoon.. =
=======================
-
--------
+> If you want better braking DONT paint the
calipers.
+>
+> Calipers are a soft dull metal so they radiate heat
better. Painting them
+> insulates them a little..which doesnt help
your brake fluid any.
+>
+> On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Ken Stanton
wrote:
+>
+> > Well,
+> >
+> > I don't want
to upgrade to Big Reds (calipers), too much $.
+> > The car is 10 years
old, the rubber isn't bad, but aging.
+> > I want to get the maximum
brake response, to match the mods that make me g
o
+> >
faster.
+> > I'm pulling off the calipers to paint them, and flushing
the fluid (10 yea
rs
+> > old) so, can't be a better time!
+>
>
+> > That's my reasons =)
+> >
+> > Ken
Stanton
+> > '91 Pearl White R/T TT
+> > Organizer - 3SI
Rochester (NY)
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:04:57
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
Just ask...if you want a full set,
paypal me at
orders@speedtoys.com,
and
I'll have em built and sent UPS today.
On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Ken
Stanton wrote:
> Where? How? I'm interested..
>
> Ken
>
> Geoff Mohler wrote:
>
> > $185
shipped for a brand new full set. $175 was the GP deal about 2
>
> months ago.
> >
> > On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Ken Stanton
wrote:
> >
> > > Doh!
> > > I'm looking for the
whole kit for my car, asap.
> > > Any suggestions?
> >
>
> > > Ken Stanton
> > > '91 Pearl White R/T
TT
> > > Organizer - 3SI Rochester (NY)
* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just ask! *
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:03:55
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
[Andie, you'll be happy to hear
that I spent all last weekend chasing NSX's]
> -----Original
Message-----
> From: Andie W. Lin [SMTP:andiewlin@yahoo.com]
> Sent:
Tuesday, September 25, 2001 12:40 PM
> To: Willis, Charles E.; 'Ken
Stanton'
> Cc:
team3s@team3s.com> Subject: RE:
Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
>
> but not as common on
the street.
>
> [Andie doesn't have to drive in
Houston!]
>
> However, if the hose is
> not covered on the
outside by a silicon or rubber sheath, tiny particles
> of
> dust
and dirt can worth their way under the SS braiding and become lodged
>
between the SS braiding and the teflon core. Suspension movement
will
> eventually cause the dirt and dust particules to "eat away" and
abrade the
> very fragile teflon core, potentially leading to a
rupture.
>
> [Come on Andie, talking about a rupture sounds pretty
disparaging to me!]
>
> Thus, with regards to "disparaging
statgement" about SS braided hoses, my
> only statement is this: If
you inspect your hoses regularly, then you can
> use SS braided hoses...if
you do not or are not willing to do so, then
> stick
> with OEM
rubber hoses.
>
> Now, to replicate the firmer pedal feel that a SS
braided hose offers, you
> can simply put zip tires around the OEM rubber
hoses every 1" along the
> length of the hose. This keeps the hose
from swelling under hard brake
> pedal application; Cost: $5 for a bag of
100 from Home Depot.
>
> [This is a terrific suggestion, Andie,
there is a complete spectrum of us
> doing this stuff, and a $5
improvement is very helpful to those who can't
> afford a $185
solution! Thanks!]
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:54:49
-0400
From: "Andie W. Lin" <
andiewlin@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
Chuck,
[Andie, you'll be happy
to hear that I spent all last weekend chasing NSX's]
Got any names of
those drivers?
[Come on Andie, talking about a rupture sounds pretty
disparaging to me!]
Had it happen twice on two of my cars...when you're
going 70mph down the
highway and the pedal goes to the floor when you expect
to slow down to
30mph for an off-ramp...THIS IS NOT ANY FUN AT ALL.
:-)
[This is a terrific suggestion, Andie, there is a complete spectrum
of us
doing this stuff, and a $5 improvement is very helpful to those who
can't
afford a $185 solution! Thanks!]
This is one case where
you can have your cake and eat the ice cream too. :-)
andie w lin
vp
marketing and product r&d
carbotech engineering
http://www.carbotecheng.comtel:
877.899.5024 | fax: 954.493.9669
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:09:33
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
Yep *grin*
Im not a
business *but soon may be one*..so Id prefer not lose friends
here just for a
quick buck..which I dont really make anyway.
On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Andie
W. Lin wrote:
> I was asking him for HIS reasons. :-)
>
>
Some people want it for aesthetics, which on a show-car...fine...but if
he
> told me he wanted it just for looks...I'd advise against it, because
he
> apparently wouldn't be inspecting them for signs of wear.
>
> The reasons YOU listed are the correct reasons to get them, but as
with
> anything, it is not always ALL positives...there are drawbacks
to
> everything. For example, with Motul 600...it is an excellent
high-temp
> brake fluid...we sell it as well. However, it is
important to point out
> that it is also VERY hydroscopic, and that it
will absorb moisture much more
> readily than other brake fluids.
This means that they need to bleed their
> brake fluid often to keep the
operating boiling temperature from sagging and
> going down to the wet
boiling point.
>
> I just like to cover the bases and make people
aware of everything...even if
> it results in a lost sale.
>
> andie w lin
> vp marketing and product r&d
> carbotech
engineering
>
http://www.carbotecheng.com> tel:
877.899.5024 | fax: 954.493.9669
>
> ::-----Original
Message-----
> ::From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> ::Of Geoff Mohler
>
::Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 1:55 PM
> ::To: Andie W. Lin
>
::Cc: Ken Stanton;
team3s@team3s.com> ::Subject: RE:
Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
> ::
> ::Reduced sagging of brake
pedal, a more positive feeling of braking, more
> ::braking feedback to
name a few.
* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just ask! *
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:10:22
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
Theyre a more efficient design,
so heat transfer and dissipation isnt so
much an issue.
As far as
"paints" go, you can have a caliper sent to be coated to
increase heat
dissipation up to 50%.
On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Dave Monarchi
wrote:
>
> ok. I'll bite.
>
>
Subject: Porsche brakes
>
> why are "Big Reds" uh, well, RED?
Are they _so_ much better they don't
> have to be concerned about
insulation?
>
> Dave
> =======================
> = 95
Black 3000GT VR4 =
> = 87 Mica Red GTI G60 =
http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~monarchd/cars.html
> = There is no spoon.. =
> =======================
>
> --------
>
> +> If you want better braking DONT paint
the calipers.
> +>
> +> Calipers are a soft dull metal so
they radiate heat better. Painting them
> +> insulates them a
little..which doesnt help your brake fluid any.
> +>
> +> On
Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Ken Stanton wrote:
> +>
> +> >
Well,
> +> >
> +> > I don't want to upgrade to Big Reds
(calipers), too much $.
> +> > The car is 10 years old, the rubber
isn't bad, but aging.
> +> > I want to get the maximum brake
response, to match the mods that make me g
> o
> +> >
faster.
> +> > I'm pulling off the calipers to paint them, and
flushing the fluid (10 yea
> rs
> +> > old) so, can't be a
better time!
> +> >
> +> > That's my reasons =)
>
+> >
> +> > Ken Stanton
> +> > '91 Pearl White
R/T TT
> +> > Organizer - 3SI Rochester (NY)
> +> >
> +> > "Andie W. Lin" wrote:
> +> >
> +> >
> I would like to ask: what is your reason for installing SS braided
brake
> +> > > hoses on your car?
> +> > >
>
+> > > Regards,
> +> > >
> +> > > Andie
Lin
> +> > >
> +> > > andie w lin
> +>
> > vp marketing and product r&d
> +> > > carbotech
engineering
> +> > >
http://www.carbotecheng.com> +>
> > tel: 877.899.5024 | fax: 954.493.9669
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:10:52
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
*heh*
Ive got a pair of
Tarox 6-pot calipers for the rear of an NSX at home..but
no rotors.
On
Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Willis, Charles E. wrote:
> [Andie, you'll be happy
to hear that I spent all last weekend chasing NSX's]
>
> >
-----Original Message-----
> > From: Andie W. Lin
[SMTP:andiewlin@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 12:40
PM
> > To: Willis, Charles E.; 'Ken Stanton'
> > Cc:
team3s@team3s.com> > Subject: RE:
Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
> >
> > but not as
common on the street.
> >
> > [Andie doesn't have to
drive in Houston!]
> >
> > However, if the hose is
>
> not covered on the outside by a silicon or rubber sheath, tiny
particles
> > of
> > dust and dirt can worth their way under
the SS braiding and become lodged
> > between the SS braiding and the
teflon core. Suspension movement will
> > eventually cause the
dirt and dust particules to "eat away" and abrade the
> > very fragile
teflon core, potentially leading to a rupture.
> >
> > [Come
on Andie, talking about a rupture sounds pretty disparaging to me!]
> >
> > Thus, with regards to "disparaging statgement" about SS braided
hoses, my
> > only statement is this: If you inspect your hoses
regularly, then you can
> > use SS braided hoses...if you do not or are
not willing to do so, then
> > stick
> > with OEM rubber
hoses.
> >
> > Now, to replicate the firmer pedal feel that a
SS braided hose offers, you
> > can simply put zip tires around the OEM
rubber hoses every 1" along the
> > length of the hose. This
keeps the hose from swelling under hard brake
> > pedal application;
Cost: $5 for a bag of 100 from Home Depot.
> >
> > [This is a
terrific suggestion, Andie, there is a complete spectrum of us
> >
doing this stuff, and a $5 improvement is very helpful to those who
can't
> > afford a $185 solution! Thanks!]
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:13:50
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
Write up? You just read
it!
seriously, this has got to exist somewhere else. lemme dig in
my old
emails. you need a "front caliper seal kit" from Mitsu or
elsewhere, a
little block of wood and a souce of compressed air - I used my
portable
electric tire pump last time and borrowed air from the tire shop a
couple of
times. It makes a mess when the pistons pop out so cover it with a
rag and
set it on plastic or something.
Chuck
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Stanton
[SMTP:tt007ken@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 12:48
PM
> To: Willis, Charles E.
> Cc:
team3s@team3s.com> Subject: Re:
Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
>
> Ohhhhhhhhhh!!!!
>
Duh!
>
> Ok, so what do I need to purchase, and what tools do I
need?
> Is there a writeup on this somewhere?
>
>
THANKS!
> Ken
>
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:16:07
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
I bet the wet boiling point of
Motul 600 is still better than the wet
boiling temp of the DOT3 junk that
came in the car.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andie W.
Lin [SMTP:andiewlin@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 12:49
PM
> To: Geoff Mohler
> Cc: Ken Stanton;
team3s@team3s.com> Subject: RE:
Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
>
> This means that
they need to bleed their
> brake fluid often to keep the operating boiling
temperature from sagging
> and
> going down to the wet boiling
point.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 14:05:44
-0400
From: "Andie W. Lin" <
andiewlin@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
And watch your fingers on the
receiving end of the pistons. When they "pop"
out...do they ever.
:-) <looking at my left index finger with UN-fond
memories>
<grin>
andie w lin
vp marketing and product r&d
carbotech
engineering
http://www.carbotecheng.comtel:
877.899.5024 | fax: 954.493.9669
::-----Original Message-----
::From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
::Of Willis, Charles E.
::Sent:
Tuesday, September 25, 2001 2:14 PM
::Cc:
team3s@team3s.com::Subject: RE: Team3S:
Rear SS brake line kit F/S
::
::Write up? You just read
it!
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:07:20
-0600
From: Dave Monarchi <
monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
Subject:
Caliper paint (was: Re: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S)
+> Theyre
a more efficient design, so heat transfer and dissipation isnt so
+> much
an issue.
yeah, I figured that. I was just being
"difficult".. :)
+> As far as "paints" go, you can have a
caliper sent to be coated to
+> increase heat dissipation up to
50%.
I take it we're talking about special "paints" as opposed to a spray
can
of Krylon? :) What does said coating usually cost? Is
this a high-dollar
race car mod?
also, I was recently told that Folia
Tec went out of business. Is there
a reasonable cost substitute for
their products? I have 2 cars waiting
to have their braking efficiency
reduced.. ;)
Dave
=======================
= 95 Black 3000GT
VR4 =
= 87 Mica Red GTI G60 =
http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~monarchd/cars.html
= There is no spoon.. =
=======================
+> On Tue, 25
Sep 2001, Dave Monarchi wrote:
+>
+> >
+> > ok.
I'll bite.
+> >
+> > Subject: Porsche brakes
+>
>
+> > why are "Big Reds" uh, well, RED? Are they _so_ much
better they don't
+> > have to be concerned about insulation?
+> >
+> > +> If you want better braking DONT paint the
calipers.
+> > +>
+> > +> Calipers are a soft dull
metal so they radiate heat better. Painting t
hem
+> > +>
insulates them a little..which doesnt help your brake fluid
any.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:21:43
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
I'm not sure that the rough
oxidized Gray exterior of my calipers after ten
years isn't a better
insulator than the nice smooth high temperature
powder-coated Black paint on
one set. Also I can imaging the rough surface
braeking up the airstream
across it causing turbulent flow which is less
efficient for heat
transfer. Also I believe Black is a better radiator of
heat than
oxidized gray.
I am not having temperature problems with my painted
calipers.
Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Geoff Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September
25, 2001 12:56 PM
> To: Ken Stanton
> Cc:
team3s@team3s.com> Subject: Re:
Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
>
> If you want better braking
DONT paint the calipers.
>
> Calipers are a soft dull metal so they
radiate heat better. Painting them
> insulates them a little..which
doesnt help your brake fluid any.
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:05:22
-0700
From: Wayne <
whietala@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re:
Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
At 10:47 AM 9/25/01 , Ken Stanton
wrote:
>Ok, so what do I need to purchase, and what tools do I
need?
Mitsubishi part # MB857261 is for 91-93 models, includes both
sides. You
will need all your normal tools, plus some compressed air to
shoot into the
brake line port.
>Is there a writeup on this
somewhere?
In the service manual
>THANKS!
>Ken
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:32:06
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
Place a small block of wood in the
caliper before you pop out the pistons
as well.
On Tue, 25 Sep 2001,
Andie W. Lin wrote:
> And watch your fingers on the receiving end of
the pistons. When they "pop"
> out...do they ever. :-)
<looking at my left index finger with UN-fond
> memories>
<grin>
>
> andie w lin
> vp marketing and product
r&d
> carbotech engineering
>
http://www.carbotecheng.com> tel:
877.899.5024 | fax: 954.493.9669
>
> ::-----Original
Message-----
> ::From:
owner-team3s@team3s.com
[mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
> ::Of Willis, Charles
E.
> ::Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 2:14 PM
> ::Cc:
team3s@team3s.com> ::Subject: RE:
Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
> ::
> ::Write up? You just read
it!
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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:32:38
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
Re: Caliper paint (was: Re: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S)
Yes,
about $150 per caliper. I'll post a link tonight..I did post one
Friday
night that I recall tho.
On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Dave Monarchi
wrote:
>
> +> Theyre a more efficient design, so heat
transfer and dissipation isnt so
> +> much an issue.
>
>
yeah, I figured that. I was just being "difficult".. :)
>
> +> As far as "paints" go, you can have a caliper sent to be coated
to
> +> increase heat dissipation up to 50%.
>
> I take it
we're talking about special "paints" as opposed to a spray can
> of
Krylon? :) What does said coating usually cost? Is this a
high-dollar
> race car mod?
>
> also, I was recently told
that Folia Tec went out of business. Is there
> a reasonable cost
substitute for their products? I have 2 cars waiting
> to have their
braking efficiency reduced.. ;)
>
> Dave
>
=======================
> = 95 Black 3000GT VR4 =
> = 87 Mica Red
GTI G60 =
http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~monarchd/cars.html
> = There is no spoon.. =
> =======================
>
> +> On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Dave Monarchi wrote:
> +>
>
+> >
> +> > ok. I'll bite.
> +> >
> +> > Subject: Porsche brakes
> +> >
> +>
> why are "Big Reds" uh, well, RED? Are they _so_ much better they
don't
> +> > have to be concerned about insulation?
> +>
>
> +> > +> If you want better braking DONT paint the
calipers.
> +> > +>
> +> > +> Calipers are a soft
dull metal so they radiate heat better. Painting t
> hem
>
+> > +> insulates them a little..which doesnt help your brake fluid
any.
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:33:51
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
You assume too much.
More
surface area will radiate more, so its not just airflow, but
radiated
dispersion you want. Paints will not radiate as much, and will
add
thermal mass.
I'll post the link to the coatings place tonight
again.
On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Willis, Charles E. wrote:
> I'm not
sure that the rough oxidized Gray exterior of my calipers after ten
>
years isn't a better insulator than the nice smooth high temperature
>
powder-coated Black paint on one set. Also I can imaging the rough
surface
> braeking up the airstream across it causing turbulent flow which
is less
> efficient for heat transfer. Also I believe Black is a
better radiator of
> heat than oxidized gray.
>
> I am not
having temperature problems with my painted calipers.
>
>
Chuck
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Geoff
Mohler [SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September
25, 2001 12:56 PM
> > To: Ken Stanton
> > Cc:
team3s@team3s.com> > Subject: Re:
Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
> >
> > If you want better
braking DONT paint the calipers.
> >
> > Calipers are a soft
dull metal so they radiate heat better. Painting them
> >
insulates them a little..which doesnt help your brake fluid any.
* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just ask! *
***
Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:33:21
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
I found it easier to cap the brake
fluid line, open the bleed screw,
attach a hose to the bleeder and pump air
in there. pistons still come out.
Otherwise, I didn't make a good enough seal
on the brake line.
> Mitsubishi part # MB857261 is for 91-93 models,
includes both sides. You
> will need all your normal tools, plus some
compressed air to shoot into
> the
> brake line
port.
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:35:34
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Caliper paint (was: Re: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S)
You can
get high temp paints from other sources -
http://www.truechoice.com/menu.asp>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler
[SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 1:33
PM
> To: Dave Monarchi
> Cc:
team3s@team3s.com> Subject: Re:
Caliper paint (was: Re: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit
> F/S)
>
> Yes, about $150 per caliper. I'll post a link tonight..I did post
one
> Friday night that I recall tho.
>
> >
> >
I take it we're talking about special "paints" as opposed to a spray can
>
> of Krylon? :) What does said coating usually cost? Is
this a
> high-dollar
> > race car mod?
***
Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:39:34
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
You are right that a layer of ANY
material acts as an insulator so that
there is some delta T for heat transfer
across it, but if it is in intimate
contact with the metallic caliper body,
like paint, and has excellent
thermal conductivity, and is getting rid of the
heat on the other side
because it is a better radiator, then overall you are
better off.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Mohler
[SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 1:34
PM
> To: Willis, Charles E.
> Cc:
team3s@team3s.com> Subject: RE:
Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
>
> You assume too much.
>
> More surface area will radiate more, so its not just airflow, but
radiated
> dispersion you want. Paints will not radiate as much, and
will add
> thermal mass.
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:45:18
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Caliper paint (was: Re: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S)
Were not
talking high temp paints, we are talking head radiating coatings.
On Tue,
25 Sep 2001, Willis, Charles E. wrote:
> You can get high temp paints
from other sources -
>
>
http://www.truechoice.com/menu.asp>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Geoff Mohler
[SMTP:gemohler@www.speedtoys.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001
1:33 PM
> > To: Dave Monarchi
> > Cc:
team3s@team3s.com> > Subject: Re:
Caliper paint (was: Re: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit
> > F/S)
>
>
> > Yes, about $150 per caliper. I'll post a link
tonight..I did post one
> > Friday night that I recall tho.
>
>
> > >
> > > I take it we're talking about special
"paints" as opposed to a spray can
> > > of Krylon? :)
What does said coating usually cost? Is this a
> >
high-dollar
> > > race car mod?
* Porterfield Brake Wholesaler..just ask! *
***
Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 14:38:06
-0400
From: "Andie W. Lin" <
andiewlin@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
The WBP for Motul 600 is 431F, and the
DBP is 585F . This is really one of
the best brake fluids short of
Castrol SRF, which costs MUCH more. The only
real "down side" is that
it is very hydroscopic, but this is easily taken
care of by bleeding the
brakes before and after every event.
andie w lin
vp marketing and
product r&d
carbotech engineering
http://www.carbotecheng.comtel:
877.899.5024 | fax: 954.493.9669
::I bet the wet boiling point of
Motul 600 is still better than the wet
::boiling temp of the DOT3 junk that
came in the car.
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:57:05
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
Not true anymore.
Its at
least 594 for the mew Motul600.
On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Andie W. Lin
wrote:
> The WBP for Motul 600 is 431F, and the DBP is 585F .
This is really one of
> the best brake fluids short of Castrol SRF, which
costs MUCH more. The only
> real "down side" is that it is very
hydroscopic, but this is easily taken
> care of by bleeding the brakes
before and after every event.
>
> andie w lin
> vp marketing
and product r&d
> carbotech engineering
>
http://www.carbotecheng.com> tel:
877.899.5024 | fax: 954.493.9669
*** Info:
http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:59:20
-0700 (PDT)
From: Geoff Mohler <
gemohler@www.speedtoys.com>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
My chart
again:
DOT-3 DOT-4 DOT-5
Dry Boiling Point/deg
F 401
446 500
Wet Boiling Point/deg
F 284
311 356
Now, for comparison, here are the
specifications for some of the most
popular high-performance brake fluids in
use.
Boiling
Points
Dry Wet
-
----------------------------------------
AP Racing
550
531 261
AP Racing
600
567 378
Castrol
SRF
590 518
Motul Racing
600
585 421
Ate Super Blue/
200
536 392
Motul RBF
600
594 421
On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Geoff
Mohler wrote:
> Not true anymore.
>
> Its at least 594
for the mew Motul600.
>
> On Tue, 25 Sep 2001, Andie W. Lin
wrote:
>
> > The WBP for Motul 600 is 431F, and the DBP is 585F
. This is really one of
> > the best brake fluids short of
Castrol SRF, which costs MUCH more. The only
> > real "down side"
is that it is very hydroscopic, but this is easily taken
> > care of by
bleeding the brakes before and after every event.
> >
> >
andie w lin
> > vp marketing and product r&d
> > carbotech
engineering
> >
http://www.carbotecheng.com> >
tel: 877.899.5024 | fax: 954.493.9669
> >
> >
> >
::I bet the wet boiling point of Motul 600 is still better than the wet
>
> ::boiling temp of the DOT3 junk that came in the car.
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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 14:01:11
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
[Willis, Charles E.] Okay
Mr. Smarties, is it "hydroscopic" or
"hygroscopic"?
"All brake fluid
in Houston is wet until proven otherwise."
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 14:56:59
-0400
From: "Andie W. Lin" <
andiewlin@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S
I hope you're talking about the DRY
BOILING POINT with that number. :-)
Motul and AP has to reformulate their
brake fluids recently because one of
the suppliers for an ingredient in their
brake fluids disappeared.
andie w lin
vp marketing and product
r&d
carbotech engineering
http://www.carbotecheng.comtel:
877.899.5024 | fax: 954.493.9669
*** Info:
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 16:42:10
-0400
From: Ken Stanton <
tt007ken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Team3S:
Rear SS brake line kit F/S (Summary)
Alright, summary of what to do, so
far...
Order the rebuild kit for the calipers (IS THERE / SHOULD I DO
REARS?).
Pull off my calipers and brake lines (ALL 4).
Rebuild the
calipers.
Paint the calipers (yes, I am going to).
Install the SS Brake
Lines, shield them with silicone hosing.
Reinstall the calipers.
Fill with
brake fluid (WHAT KIND? I don't race, and can't afford the
time to redo
frequently).
Bleed brakes.
Stop.
Ken
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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 16:08:22
-0500
From: "Willis, Charles E." <
cewillis@TexasChildrensHospital.org>
Subject:
RE: Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S (Summary)
use the Motul - it's wet
boiling point is still better than DOT 4 wet
boiling point according to
Geoff's chart
The rear calipers on your car are much easier than the
front's - single
piston floating caliper - the seal kit is much
cheaper.
I blew BOTH rear calipers on my 1st Gen VR4 at the track one
very hot Labor
Day weekend. It was a '93, 2 years younger than
yours. If you're gonna put
the ss lines on, you may as well rebuild the
rear calipers too.
Chuck
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: Ken Stanton [SMTP:tt007ken@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25,
2001 3:42 PM
> To: Team3S Stealth
> Subject: Team3S: Rear SS brake
line kit F/S (Summary)
>
> Alright, summary of what to do, so
far...
>
> Order the rebuild kit for the calipers (IS THERE /
SHOULD I DO REARS?).
> Pull off my calipers and brake lines (ALL
4).
> Rebuild the calipers.
> Paint the calipers (yes, I am going
to).
> Install the SS Brake Lines, shield them with silicone
hosing.
> Reinstall the calipers.
> Fill with brake fluid (WHAT
KIND? I don't race, and can't afford the
> time to redo
frequently).
> Bleed brakes.
> Stop.
>
>
Ken
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:06:39
-0400
From: "Andie W. Lin" <
andiewlin@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:
Team3S: Rear SS brake line kit F/S (Summary)
::Order the rebuild kit for
the calipers (IS THERE / SHOULD I DO REARS?).
::Pull off my calipers and
brake lines (ALL 4).
::Rebuild the calipers.
::Paint the calipers (yes, I
am going to).
::Install the SS Brake Lines, shield them with silicone
hosing.
Apply heat shrink tubing around it first...make sure it's tight
at the
swaged ends to keep dust and debris out. THEN put on the
silicone hosing
with zip tires.
::Reinstall the calipers.
::Fill
with brake fluid (WHAT KIND? I don't race, and can't afford the
::time
to redo frequently).
Motul 5.1 works well - no more hydroscopic than a
regular street fluid.
::Bleed brakes.
Get some speedbleeders from
www.speedbleeder.com . We are
not dealers for
SB...I just like their product, so you have to call them
directly and ask
for Michael (owner).
Andie
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End of Team3S: 3000GT &
Stealth V1
#626
***************************************