Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth   Sunday, September 9 2001   Volume 01 : Number 605




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 17:33:24 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Ignition key won't come out

Just glad I have a second gen VR-4 without this stupid lock.  Never saw the
real use of it anyway.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 17:48:51 -0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Front Hub Removal

Or you could just take the stock wheels and remove the center cap and let
the weight of the car on the wheel keep it from spinning.  Mitsu sells the
whole front hub assembly which is not tough to remove -IF the splines of the
axle will come out of it with a puller tool.  Mine did not the first time,
and I had to have the outer CV and hub assembly (drivers side) sent to a
shop to have a 20ton press take it out (actually started to mushroom the end
of the axle according to the shop operator).  I put anti-sieze on everything
and it practically fell out of the hub the next time when the CV went bad
(probably from banging on it to get it loose the previous time)

Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jannusch, Matt <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To: Team 3S <team3s@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 5:03 AM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Front Hub Removal


>> Well, it's not complicated, but you need the right tools,
>> and some time.  Will probably need a long lever arm of
>> some kind to lock the front axle from turning when you
>> unscrew the main axle nut.
>
>You can just jam a screwdriver in the cooling vanes of the brake rotors and
>turn the rotor until the screwdriver is jammed up against the brake
caliper.
>Works fine, and I've done it on several 3/S and DSM cars with no ill
>effects.  Almost all have required use of a 24" or longer breaker bar to
get
>the nut off, however.
>
>The "proper" way is to take the nuts off is to remove the center caps from
>your two front wheels and put the wheels back on and lower the car to the
>ground and then crank on the nuts through the center cap holes.  That's
>pretty much a waste of time compared to the screwdriver method.
>
>I've encountered a couple cars where the splines on the hub are so rusted
to
>the splines on the halfshafts that they simply can't be removed without
>risking damaging something.  That really sucks....  (Or I just need a
bigger
>hammer?)
>
>An interesting thing I found out this weekend while replacing a couple
>tranny seals on a '98 3000GT SL was that you can actually get the axles out
>of the tranny without removing the axles from either wheel hub.  His were
so
>rusted to the hubs that I got desperate enough to try finishing the job
>without removing the axles completely from the car.  Its tight, but you can
>get them out by only disconnecting the struts and the tie rod end
balljoint.
>Don't know if that would work on an AWD vehicle, but the dimensions of the
>axles and tranny seemed very similar to the Getrag setup.
>
>Now if only there was a better way to get the darn driver's side halfshaft
>carrier bearing support unbolted/bolted....  Whoever designed these cars
has
>way smaller and more agile hands than I do!
>
>-Matt
>'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 17:56:24 -0500
From: "cody" <overclck@starband.net>
Subject: Team3S: No Fuel - Problems.

OK, tried to start the car after months of sitting.
 
I don't think I'm getting any fuel to the engine.  I checked the fuel
pump connections with a test light, and only got positive voltage at one
pin, which I believe is the fuel level sender.  I got no voltage from
the other pins.  Question - what could cause this?  Is the ECU a valid
candidate - or is this most likely a relay or fuse / connection
somewhere?
 
I also had a question.  The fuel return line at the fuel pump is dry as
can be - this shouldn't be right?  I mean - the fuel pump should pump up
to the regulator pressure, and anything else should be pushed back into
the tank through this line. 
 
A related question - how does the fuel pump know at what pressure to
pump fuel???  Does it always flow a certain amount, or does it only flow
higher rates when needed?
 
- -Cody
 
***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 15:56:46 -0700
From: "Darc" <wce@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Ignition key won't come out

The idea of a Team Spirit (i.e. Team 3S) and hence gentlemanly conduct, is
to be of assistance to each other, not the opposite.

Best

Darc

> Just glad I have a second gen VR-4 without this stupid lock.  Never saw
the
> real use of it anyway.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 19:05:46 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Ignition key won't come out

Cripes.  I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition.  I don't see you
publicly lashing out at all the people who offer non-techie advice.

Fine, since the list is either absolutely dead today or for some reason
every single person is sitting back on their laurels.

I have no idea what the idea for that lock to get the key out of the car is
supposed to do.  I don't like it and am glad I don't have one.  However, my
car does not have it so I imagine older cars can have their ignitions
modified once they have broken like yours.  If you can take the pin out then
maybe the tumblers go freely.  Obviously they do not.  Why don't you look at
the Manual on CD and see what the ignition lock looks like on your car.  You
didn't tell us what year, what model, and what type it was either so you
didn't do your part to help "the Team."

The good things is you can start the car and drive it to a locksmith or car
place to fix.  It would be worse if the key were locked out of the ignition.

Best of luck.

Fellow Team member Flash!
www.speedtoys.com/~dschilberg

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com]On Behalf
Of Darc
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 6:57 PM

The idea of a Team Spirit (i.e. Team 3S) and hence gentlemanly conduct, is
to be of assistance to each other, not the opposite.

Best

Darc

> Just glad I have a second gen VR-4 without this stupid lock.  Never saw
the
> real use of it anyway.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 19:08:05 -0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Porterfield Rotors...

.............yah, but they come with a disclaimer that they are not for
track use.  That was totally unexpected, and when they warped only slightly
less quickly then the stock ones and very quickly after I had them machined
again (warped when I bought them), I knew  they were just car candy and not
a real improvement at all.

Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: Jannusch, Matt <mjannusch@marketwatch.com>
To: Team3S <team3s@speedracer.speedtoys.com>
Date: Thursday, September 06, 2001 4:36 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Porterfield Rotors...


>> There are all manner of brake failures for crossdrilled,
>> slotted, cryoed, heat-treated and stock (just ask Flash!).
>> It is ludicrous to condemn a whole product line just
>> because you broke one.
>
>The problem is that Oskar isn't the only one who broke one.  Others were
>broken similarly.  Also the PowerSlot rotors are made from the same blanks
>as the Stillen rotors and they have also been broken.
>
>They are BRAKES - they should be very reliable, especially a rotor sold as
>being "Sport Rotors".  If anything on the car needs to work well every
>single time you use it it needs to be the brakes.  To think broken rotors
>are somehow okay strikes me as odd.
>
>-Matt
>'95 3000GT Spyder VR4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 19:09:52 -0000
From: "Sam Shelat" <sshelat@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Need a quick answer!! Please help!!

The tighter coils go on the bottom of the strut--the looser "softer" more
spaced ones are your comfort zone on top.

Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: BlackLight <BlackLight@Planetice.net>
To: Stealth@Stls. Verio. Net <stealth@stls.verio.net>;
3sracers@speedtoys.com <3sracers@speedtoys.com>; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
<Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date: Thursday, September 06, 2001 4:54 PM
Subject: Team3S: Need a quick answer!! Please help!!


>I just got my Intrax springs today and I am going to install them, but
>which way do they go? One side of the spring looks more compressed than
>the other (distance between spring spacing is smaller) so does the
>tighter part go towards the top or bottom? Please help, I was on my way
>out the door to get started when I noticed it.
>
>Sorry for the direct post, but I need to know ASAP, sorry!! And thank
>you for the help!!
>
>Matt Nelson
>1994 RT TT
>Computer Sales Consultant
>Gateway Computers, Salem OR
>Work Phone 503-587-7113
>BlackLight@Planetice.Net
>www.BlackLight.5u.com

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 18:33:29 -0500
From: "cody" <overclck@starband.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Need a quick answer!! Please help!!

Can you explain how two equal pieces pushing on the same spring can have
different forces acting upon them???

- -Cody

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Sam Shelat
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 2:10 PM
To: BlackLight; Stealth@Stls. Verio. Net; 3sracers@speedtoys.com;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: Need a quick answer!! Please help!!


The tighter coils go on the bottom of the strut--the looser "softer"
more
spaced ones are your comfort zone on top.

Sam
- -----Original Message-----
From: BlackLight <BlackLight@Planetice.net>
To: Stealth@Stls. Verio. Net <stealth@stls.verio.net>;
3sracers@speedtoys.com <3sracers@speedtoys.com>;
Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
<Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Date: Thursday, September 06, 2001 4:54 PM
Subject: Team3S: Need a quick answer!! Please help!!


>I just got my Intrax springs today and I am going to install them, but
>which way do they go? One side of the spring looks more compressed than
>the other (distance between spring spacing is smaller) so does the
>tighter part go towards the top or bottom? Please help, I was on my way
>out the door to get started when I noticed it.

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 20:16:55 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Need a quick answer!! Please help!!

I don't think it is two different forces (physically it can not be possible)
but the spring section that is spaced out more has a lower spring rate than
the ones that are tighter.  Otherwise you would have the same spacing all
the way down.

I think the real Spring Rate calculation takes into account the diameter of
the spring, number of coils, diameter of coil, number of turns, and spring
rate.  The diameter of the spring is the same, but everything else is
different so this is why you think it is two different forces.  It is the
same force but the spring is not the same all the way through.

- --Flash!
dschilberg@pobox.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: cody
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 7:33 PM

Can you explain how two equal pieces pushing on the same spring can have
different forces acting upon them???

- -Cody

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 01:54:43 +0200 (MEST)
From: rgerl<roger.gerl@bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re: Team3S: No Fuel - Problems.

When you turn the key to ignition on, the fuel pump starts working for a few second to prime the lines. At this time, the fuel pressure regulatior is closed so no fuel runs back to the tank.

When the engine is running below 3000 rpm the first fuel pump relay is active (to keep the pump running) and the second relay connects the resistor to the line to lower the voltage to about 9 V to lower stress to the pump as well to prevent too much fuel pressure. After 3000 the voltage is switched to 12V to provide full pressure the pump can deliver. The pump doesn\'t know anything about the pressure nor does the ECU know. This is onyl the fuel pressure regulator that is controlled by the manifold pressure that compensates for boost situations (where the injecors have to spray against)

Your test with a light is not good due to the voltages. And then you will have ground and 12V respectively 9V. The pump flows as much as it can depending on the voltage (and resulting current) it gets. The fuel pressure regulator changes the amount of fuel sent back to the tank. The more fuel pressure needed the more the regulator closes the drain back line.

I also think that the return line it shouldn\'t be dry as the FPR never fully closes. The best candidates are the relays as you can check if they are getting the voltage. They can be removed pretty easy and the contacts should be cleaned. Often helped already :)

Hope this helps
Roger
93\'3000GT TT
www.rtec.ch

- -----------

I don’t think I’m getting any fuel to the
engine. I checked the fuel pump
connections with a test light, and only got positive voltage at one pin, which
I believe is the fuel level sender. I
got no voltage from the other pins.
Question – what could cause this?
Is the ECU a valid candidate – or is this most likely a relay or
fuse / connection somewhere?

I also had a question.
The fuel return line at the fuel pump is dry as can be – this shouldn’t
be right? I mean – the fuel pump
should pump up to the regulator pressure, and anything else should be pushed
back into the tank through this line.

A related question – how does the fuel pump know at
what pressure to pump fuel??? Does it
always flow a certain amount, or does it only flow higher rates when needed?

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 18:41:54 -0700
From: "BlackLight" <BlackLight@Planetice.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Need a quick answer!! Please help!!

Thank you all for the help in a pinch, I got them installed. There is
some noise going on, I'm going to wait a few more days to see if it goes
away, if not I'll be back with some more questions on the Intrax for the
TT's & VR4's. Thanks again all for the help!

Matt Nelson
1994 RT TT
Computer Sales Consultant
Gateway Computers, Salem OR
Work Phone 503-587-7113
BlackLight@Planetice.Net
www.BlackLight.5u.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Darren Schilberg
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 5:17 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: Need a quick answer!! Please help!!


I don't think it is two different forces (physically it can not be
possible) but the spring section that is spaced out more has a lower
spring rate than the ones that are tighter.  Otherwise you would have
the same spacing all the way down.

I think the real Spring Rate calculation takes into account the diameter
of the spring, number of coils, diameter of coil, number of turns, and
spring rate.  The diameter of the spring is the same, but everything
else is different so this is why you think it is two different forces.
It is the same force but the spring is not the same all the way through.

- --Flash!
dschilberg@pobox.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: cody
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 7:33 PM

Can you explain how two equal pieces pushing on the same spring can have
different forces acting upon them???

- -Cody

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 20:07:55 -0600
From: Dave Monarchi <monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Ignition key won't come out

+> I have no idea what the idea for that lock to get the key out of the car is
+> supposed to do.  I don't like it and am glad I don't have one.  However, my
+> car does not have it so I imagine older cars can have their ignitions
+> modified once they have broken like yours.  If you can take the pin out then
+> maybe the tumblers go freely.  Obviously they do not.  Why don't you look at
+> the Manual on CD and see what the ignition lock looks like on your car.  You

my understanding is the design is meant to be a safety feature..  If you
(or your kid, or dog, or flying monkey) somehow manage to turn the key to
"off" and pull it out while driving, the steering column locks.  Same idea
with having to push in on the key while turning on a second gen..

I could be wrong tho.. 

that said, I have no great suggestions for how to fix the original problem..

sorry..


Dave
=======================
= 95 Black 3000GT VR4 =
= 87 Mica Red GTI G60 =    http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~monarchd/cars.html
= There is no spoon.. =
=======================


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 22:11:37 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: FW: Team3S: Ignition key won't come out

Just so others and new people don't get the wrong idea (thanks for
clarifying, Darc) -- a car with a key that locks in the ignition (and then
needs a button pressed to remove the key) can be a good thing as compared to
a car that does not have this (like my 1995 VR-4).

The only help I can provide is on the CD Manual, page 974 of 1,308 of file
3_96C.pdf for the second gen chassis it says, "Item 9 is the Key Interlock
Cable (Refer to Group 23 Transaxle Control)."  And then I can't find that
item in the file anywhere so it might be on Lucius' page or I might have
missed it in the CD.  I thought I read something about a cam lever in there
but that might have been for the automatic shift lever on the console for
the A/T cars.

I don't know what kind you have, Darc, as that would really help
(Automatic/Manual, Mitsu/Stealth, Base/SL/VR-4, etc.).  I just don't want to
give misleading help.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 22:15:32 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Need a quick answer!! Please help!!

Make sure it isn't the noise of rubbing when full weight is off them or
hitting the bump stops or something.  The higher-end spring sets have what
are called "helper springs" that help to line up the spring assembly so it
sits and doesn't rub.

And you WILL hear more noise as the car squeaks since the springs will not
be as spongy as the stock setup.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 w/ stock suspension

- -----Original Message-----
From: BlackLight
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 9:42 PM

Thank you all for the help in a pinch, I got them installed. There is
some noise going on, I'm going to wait a few more days to see if it goes
away, if not I'll be back with some more questions on the Intrax for the
TT's & VR4's. Thanks again all for the help!

Matt Nelson
1994 RT TT


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 22:21:29 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Ignition key won't come out

Fortunately I have not had anyone break into a car of mine and bust the
ignition area to hot-wire the car.  If anyone here has had that then where
did you take it for repair?  I know the dealer can do this but they are the
most expensive.  Does Pep Boys do something like this or a place that
installs car alarms?

I also don't think that you can lock the car while the key is in the
ignition but I have not tried that before.  This might be causing Darc's car
to remain unlocked this whole time let alone having the key IN the ignition.
What better site for a car thief to find.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 and thankfully void of flying monkeys inside the car

- -----Original Message-----
From: Dave Monarchi [mailto:monarchd@refuge.Colorado.EDU]
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 10:08 PM

my understanding is the design is meant to be a safety feature..  If you
(or your kid, or dog, or flying monkey) somehow manage to turn the key to
"off" and pull it out while driving, the steering column locks.  Same idea
with having to push in on the key while turning on a second gen..

I could be wrong tho..

that said, I have no great suggestions for how to fix the original problem..

sorry..

Dave
=======================
= 95 Black 3000GT VR4 =


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 20:09:36 -0700
From: "Darc" <wce@telus.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Ignition key won't come out

> I don't know what kind you have, Darc, as that would really help
> (Automatic/Manual, Mitsu/Stealth, Base/SL/VR-4, etc.).  I just don't want
to
> give misleading help.



There is a slight misperception here. It is not my car. Mine is a 92TT but
it is not the car which this thread was initiated over. Will the real person
please identify himself again and his car so  Flash can actually offer the
advise this group is so well known for. Occasionally we get into a bit of
banter, but hopefully it does not chase off folks or give such a highly
touted Tec group the wrong impression abroad ;-)

Best

Darc


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 23:22:07 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Ignition key won't come out

It was Andy Woll and he hit me offline so I got his answer offline as well
and not to the list.

Regardless I think the answer is the same that a shop needs to look at it.
He will take it apart if he car but keeps the key in the ignition but is
still able to lock the car door (with another key I assume) so the situation
is the same although the names have changed.  =)

- --Flash!

- -----Original Message-----
From: Darc [mailto:wce@telus.net]
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 11:10 PM

There is a slight misperception here. It is not my car. Mine is a 92TT but
it is not the car which this thread was initiated over. Will the real person
please identify himself again and his car so  Flash can actually offer the
advise this group is so well known for. Occasionally we get into a bit of
banter, but hopefully it does not chase off folks or give such a highly
touted Tec group the wrong impression abroad ;-)

Best

Darc


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 23:23:48 -0700
From: Rick <melvin@gamewood.net>
Subject: Team3S: Nice home town race track!

  Thought some of you track guys might wanna look into this track and
see if we could use it.I have'nt really talked to anyone about that,so
feel free if you like.Paul Newman(actor, race driver loves it),and it
does look fun.
  http://www.virclub.com/index.htm
 Might be a good place for a gathering.Think it's about done for the
year now,but you might wann chack it out.
  RICK


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 23:36:53 -0400
From: "Dennis and Anita Moore" <stealth@quixnet.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Ignition key won't come out

My 93 ES had the same problem this spring.  I took it to the dealer, they
charged $30 to replace a broken shear pin in the assembly.  You might be
able to do it yourself, but it involved taking the steering wheel off and I
wasn't about to screw around with the airbag!

You CAN lock the car doors in this situation, but you have to close the
doors and lock it from the outside with the key.  (This is true if you don't
have an aftermarket alarm on it.  If you do, then I don't know.)

Hope this helps!

Dennis Moore
93 Stealth ES

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew D. Woll" <awoll1@pacbell.net>
To: "Team3S" <team3s@mail.speedtoys.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 5:06 PM
Subject: Team3S: Ignition key won't come out


> Hi Folks - here is an unusual problem. I can't get my key out. The button
> next to the key that must be depressed is no longer attached to anything.
It
> is about 1.3 inches long, and about 1/4 inch in diameter. It has a little
> hole in it about half way along the shaft. It does not seem to depress
> anything. It does not fall out, but it can be taken out with minimal
force.
> Before I start tearing things apart I am wondering if anyone has any
ideas.
> I look forward to hearing from you.
>
> Andy

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 21:43:38 -0700
From: "BlackLight" <BlackLight@Planetice.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Need a quick answer!! Please help!!

They're just Intrax, no helper springs, and the noise mainly only
happens while stopped or moving very slow and turning, or turning a LOT
at speed, it has nothing to do with weight off or hitting bump stops. I
understand that the car will make more noise due to the stiffer ride,
but this is not from this noise either. It is a very distinctive spring
noise, sounds like the springs are moving around a bit in the cups.

Are the Intrax springs a slightly smaller diameter than stock in the
front? It looks like they are about .5" smaller total diameter, not sure
though, just looks that way.

Matt Nelson
1994 RT TT
Computer Sales Consultant
Gateway Computers, Salem OR
Work Phone 503-587-7113
BlackLight@Planetice.Net
www.BlackLight.5u.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Darren Schilberg
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 7:16 PM
To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: RE: Team3S: Need a quick answer!! Please help!!


Make sure it isn't the noise of rubbing when full weight is off them or
hitting the bump stops or something.  The higher-end spring sets have
what are called "helper springs" that help to line up the spring
assembly so it sits and doesn't rub.

And you WILL hear more noise as the car squeaks since the springs will
not be as spongy as the stock setup.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4 w/ stock suspension

- -----Original Message-----
From: BlackLight
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 9:42 PM

Thank you all for the help in a pinch, I got them installed. There is
some noise going on, I'm going to wait a few more days to see if it goes
away, if not I'll be back with some more questions on the Intrax for the
TT's & VR4's. Thanks again all for the help!

Matt Nelson
1994 RT TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 08:02:26 -0700
From: "Jim Berry" <fastmax@home.com>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Need a quick answer!! Please help!!

I've never messed with Intrax [ I have Ground Control ] but when you turn
the steering wheel you also rotate the spring/strut assembly --- at the top
of the strut is a bearing that allows the assembly to rotate with respect to
the strut tower. If that bearing is not installed properly or is defective the
spring will not rotate smoothly but will jump from spot to spot making a
heavy spring sound. It's more prevalent at low speed turning such as you
would do in a parking lot --- lots of wheel deflection, at higher speeds you
usually only apply small steering inputs.

I assume Intrax uses the stock bearing so if you had no trouble before you
might check the installation. The condition is more irritating than dangerous,
but over time [ a gazillion miles ] you could probably wear out the top spring
perch.


        Jim Berry
=====================================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: BlackLight <BlackLight@Planetice.net>
To: <dschilberg@pobox.com>; <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 9:43 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Need a quick answer!! Please help!!


> They're just Intrax, no helper springs, and the noise mainly only
> happens while stopped or moving very slow and turning, or turning a LOT
> at speed, it has nothing to do with weight off or hitting bump stops. I
> understand that the car will make more noise due to the stiffer ride,
> but this is not from this noise either. It is a very distinctive spring
> noise, sounds like the springs are moving around a bit in the cups.
>
> Are the Intrax springs a slightly smaller diameter than stock in the
> front? It looks like they are about .5" smaller total diameter, not sure
> though, just looks that way.
>
> Matt Nelson
> 1994 RT TT
> Computer Sales Consultant
> Gateway Computers, Salem OR
> Work Phone 503-587-7113
> BlackLight@Planetice.Net
> www.BlackLight.5u.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
> Of Darren Schilberg
> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 7:16 PM
> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Need a quick answer!! Please help!!
>
>
> Make sure it isn't the noise of rubbing when full weight is off them or
> hitting the bump stops or something.  The higher-end spring sets have
> what are called "helper springs" that help to line up the spring
> assembly so it sits and doesn't rub.
>
> And you WILL hear more noise as the car squeaks since the springs will
> not be as spongy as the stock setup.
>
> --Flash!
> 1995 VR-4 w/ stock suspension
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlackLight
> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 9:42 PM
>
> Thank you all for the help in a pinch, I got them installed. There is
> some noise going on, I'm going to wait a few more days to see if it goes
> away, if not I'll be back with some more questions on the Intrax for the
> TT's & VR4's. Thanks again all for the help!
>
> Matt Nelson
> 1994 RT TT
>

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 10:14:19 -0700
From: "BlackLight" <BlackLight@Planetice.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Need a quick answer!! Please help!!

I played with both bearing assembly's at the tops of the struts and they
both spun very freely and nicely. So I don't think that is the problem.
It's starting to go away some, so it might just be settling in. I have
to wait until Monday to call the dealer that switched the front springs
for me to see how he aligned them, so I'll have more info then. Thanks
for the help!!!

Matt Nelson
1994 RT TT
Computer Sales Consultant
Gateway Computers, Salem OR
Work Phone 503-587-7113
BlackLight@Planetice.Net
www.BlackLight.5u.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jim Berry [mailto:fastmax@home.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 8:02 AM
To: BlackLight; dschilberg@pobox.com; Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
Subject: Re: Team3S: Need a quick answer!! Please help!!


I've never messed with Intrax [ I have Ground Control ] but when you
turn the steering wheel you also rotate the spring/strut assembly --- at
the top of the strut is a bearing that allows the assembly to rotate
with respect to the strut tower. If that bearing is not installed
properly or is defective the spring will not rotate smoothly but will
jump from spot to spot making a
heavy spring sound. It's more prevalent at low speed turning such as you

would do in a parking lot --- lots of wheel deflection, at higher speeds
you usually only apply small steering inputs.

I assume Intrax uses the stock bearing so if you had no trouble before
you might check the installation. The condition is more irritating than
dangerous, but over time [ a gazillion miles ] you could probably wear
out the top spring perch.


        Jim Berry =====================================================
- ----- Original Message -----
From: BlackLight <BlackLight@Planetice.net>
To: <dschilberg@pobox.com>; <Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st>
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 9:43 PM
Subject: RE: Team3S: Need a quick answer!! Please help!!


> They're just Intrax, no helper springs, and the noise mainly only
> happens while stopped or moving very slow and turning, or turning a
> LOT at speed, it has nothing to do with weight off or hitting bump
> stops. I understand that the car will make more noise due to the
> stiffer ride, but this is not from this noise either. It is a very
> distinctive spring noise, sounds like the springs are moving around a
> bit in the cups.
>
> Are the Intrax springs a slightly smaller diameter than stock in the
> front? It looks like they are about .5" smaller total diameter, not
> sure though, just looks that way.
>
> Matt Nelson
> 1994 RT TT
> Computer Sales Consultant
> Gateway Computers, Salem OR
> Work Phone 503-587-7113
> BlackLight@Planetice.Net
> www.BlackLight.5u.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On
> Behalf Of Darren Schilberg
> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 7:16 PM
> To: Team3S@stealth-3000gt.st
> Subject: RE: Team3S: Need a quick answer!! Please help!!
>
>
> Make sure it isn't the noise of rubbing when full weight is off them
> or hitting the bump stops or something.  The higher-end spring sets
> have what are called "helper springs" that help to line up the spring
> assembly so it sits and doesn't rub.
>
> And you WILL hear more noise as the car squeaks since the springs will

> not be as spongy as the stock setup.
>
> --Flash!
> 1995 VR-4 w/ stock suspension
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlackLight
> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 9:42 PM
>
> Thank you all for the help in a pinch, I got them installed. There is
> some noise going on, I'm going to wait a few more days to see if it
> goes away, if not I'll be back with some more questions on the Intrax
> for the TT's & VR4's. Thanks again all for the help!
>
> Matt Nelson
> 1994 RT TT

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 01:21:42 -0400
From: "Darren Schilberg" <dschilberg@pobox.com>
Subject: Team3S: Quirky cruise control

I find when cruising and using Cruise Control sometimes it takes two clicks
of the steering wheel stalk lever to activate it instead of just one push.
Sometimes it takes right away but almost always it takes two clicks to get
it to resume (and sometimes to set).  Any idea if this is some aging wiring,
dirty connections, or something else?  Since it seems to happen upon setting
and resuming and this is the same lever I think the connection might need
cleaned up some inside the steering wheel area.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 10:34:54 -0700
From: "BlackLight" <BlackLight@Planetice.net>
Subject: RE: Team3S: Quirky cruise control

Both of my Stealth's (1991 ES and 1994 RT TT) did the same thing. In
fact, my first, the 91 ES, I thought for the longest time that it just
didn't work at all until one day on the freeway I was mad and hit it
like 5 times in a row real quick and it turned on! From then on,
occasionally one click would do it, usually it took two, sometimes 3. On
my 94 RT TT it takes one, sometimes two. I wouldn't be worried bout it
though.

Matt Nelson
1994 RT TT
Computer Sales Consultant
Gateway Computers, Salem OR
Work Phone 503-587-7113
BlackLight@Planetice.Net
www.BlackLight.5u.com

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-team3s@team3s.com [mailto:owner-team3s@team3s.com] On Behalf
Of Darren Schilberg
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 10:22 PM
To: Team3S
Subject: Team3S: Quirky cruise control


I find when cruising and using Cruise Control sometimes it takes two
clicks of the steering wheel stalk lever to activate it instead of just
one push. Sometimes it takes right away but almost always it takes two
clicks to get it to resume (and sometimes to set).  Any idea if this is
some aging wiring, dirty connections, or something else?  Since it seems
to happen upon setting and resuming and this is the same lever I think
the connection might need cleaned up some inside the steering wheel
area.

- --Flash!
1995 VR-4

***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 14:34:47 -0700
From: Andrew Woll <awoll1@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Team3S: Ignition key won't come out - update on fix 1

Hi Dennis, Anita, Darrin and Darc:

Thank you all for your help. Dennis and Anita are probably on the mark, and
I will be contacting the dealer in Sacramento. However, Darrin and Darc are
also on the mark as to the uselessness of the button in the first place.

Here are my findings.

I took off the surrounding plastic by removing 4 phillips head screws from
under the column that were easily reachable. Getting the plastic off
involved a bit of twisting but eventually it came off. removing the steering
wheel was not necessary. D&A, I doubt the dealer removed your wheel when the
charge was only $30.00.

What I found is a kluge method of pushing a disengagement plate inside the
ignition switch. The button we touch on the outside of the car is really an
inch long shaft with the far end beveled at a 45 degree angle. In the middle
of the shaft is an oblong hole through which a pin goes. The purpose of the
pin is just to make sure the shaft does not come off the car.

When the shaft is pressed it slides on the end of another plastic shaft
oriented 90 degrees downward from the first shaft. In ortherwords, the two
shafts meet each other and form a corner. When the second shaft goes down,
its far end depresses a plate in the ignition switch, and, at that point,
the key can be withdrawn. Under the place is a spring, and it is this spring
that is felt pushing back when you first push the button in.

In my case, I found the pin, and the first shaft. Somehow, the second shaft
has disappeared. I was able to make the thing operate by dropping a 6 penney
nail into the downward facing shaft, but obviously, this is no fix.

I am going to take the car to a locksmith and see if he can remove the
lockout mechanism. In 54 years I have yet to have my dog turn off my
ignition while driving down the road. I don't carry chimpanzees and my wife
values her life too much to take the key out. Ergo, this button serves no
useful purpose.

If a locksmith can't fix it then I will take the car to a dealer. This is a
real pain in the neck because I am sure there are no mitsu dealers nearby,
and equally sure a dodge dealer probably can't even spell "shaft" much less
fix one. On the other hand, I guess I have to find a mitsu dealer somewhere
since I need myu 120k done and I don't have time to do it myself. Six of one
and half a dozen of the other.

I was able to lock the car with my spare key while the first key was stuck
in the ignition, but I noticed something at night that I did not notice in
the day - namely, that the radio light stayed illuminated. This probably is
not a big current draw, but even this might drain the battery overnight.

I will keep you all posted

Andy Woll
93 AWD TT Stealth


***  Info:  http://www.Team3S.com/Rules.htm  ***

------------------------------

End of Team3S: 3000GT & Stealth V1 #605
***************************************